Episode 52

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Published on:

10th Oct 2024

The Crow: City Of Angels

The latest episode of the Movie Wars podcast dives deep into "The Crow: City of Angels." Just two years after Brandon Lee's tragic death, does Tim Pope and David S. Goyer's(Batman Begins writer) follow-up hit 1994's watermark? Or does it serve as a cash grab, obliterating the legacy of Brandon Lee? With a new set of villains, a tunic-wearing gang leader, and a grown-up Sara, how does Vincent Perez's Crow fare in this orange haze-filled setting? With another rocking soundtrack and the much-delayed casting of Iggy Pop, City Of Angels does what it can to extend the cult love of The Crow.

This episode delves into the controversial sequel, The Crow: City of Angels, analyzing its attempt to follow up on the cult classic that was The Crow. The hosts express their disappointment, particularly highlighting how the film fails to capture the essence of its predecessor. They discuss the film's lack of character development, especially for the new protagonist, Ash, played by Vincent Perez. The conversation reflects on how the absence of Brandon Lee's charisma and physicality significantly diminishes the film's impact. The hosts lament the film's reliance on clichés and uninspired dialogue, which leads to a lack of genuine emotional connection with the characters. They dissect the film's attempts at revenge and how the method of retribution feels unearned and poorly executed compared to the first film, ultimately labeling it as a missed opportunity that does not resonate with fans of the original.

Takeaways:

  • The podcast hosts express strong disappointment in 'The Crow: City of Angels', highlighting its lack of coherence and character development.
  • The discussion emphasizes that no character stood out in the sequel, making it difficult for viewers to engage with the story.
  • The hosts compare the film unfavorably to the original 'Crow', noting the absence of Brandon Lee's compelling performance and physicality.
  • They discuss the poor execution of flashbacks in this sequel, which ultimately detracted from the overall narrative flow.
  • The hosts lament the missed potential of the sequel, mentioning that it felt rushed and poorly constructed, akin to a cash grab.
  • The critique includes how the villains lacked depth and uniqueness, failing to provide any memorable or interesting dynamics.
Transcript
Kyle:

Movie wars.

Kyle:

Ladies and gentlemen, welcome back to the movie wars podcast.

Seth:

Woo.

Kyle:

I got my buddies back here again.

Kyle:

I'm all your nightmares rolled up into one.

Kyle:

I'm Kyle.

Seth:

I'm Seth.

Drew:

I'm Drew.

Drew:

Insert movie quote here.

Kyle:

I wrote down a few you could have.

Kyle:

These were the worst ones I saw.

Kyle:

I'll be seeing you, sugarplumen.

Kyle:

We're gonna celebrate Christmas a little bit early this year.

Kyle:

And fuck you, bird dick.

Drew:

That's mine.

Seth:

Spider Monkey is a fucking crispy critter.

Kyle:

Oh, my God, it's Spider monkey.

Kyle:

Just instantly, we killed you.

Kyle:

You remember how, like, the last one, it took t bird?

Kyle:

That was part of the drama.

Kyle:

He was like.

Kyle:

He kind of slowly realized it.

Kyle:

Spider monkey's like, hey, we killed you instantly.

Kyle:

It is like, yeah, yeah, give it a minute.

Drew:

I mean, I don't know, if I was in his circumstance, that might be the first thing I'd say too.

Seth:

Yeah.

Kyle:

Yeah.

Seth:

I do think my favorite quote from the whole movie was, pain is my power.

Kyle:

Oh, my God.

Kyle:

Everything was so telegraphed.

Seth:

I have so many thoughts on this movie.

Kyle:

Oh, I cannot wait.

Drew:

Yeah, let's, you know, like, to be.

Seth:

Honest, if no one realized how fucked up Harvey Weinstein is before this movie, this movie should have tipped everybody off.

Kyle:

Yeah.

Seth:

Cause he took the idea of the first movie and was just like, what if we made it more bdsm?

Kyle:

Yep.

Seth:

Like, let's just get more tits, more black wax poured all over people.

Seth:

Like, let's just.

Seth:

Let's go all the way.

Seth:

Let's put all of my fetishes in there.

Drew:

Listen, tits and black wax aside, it was a terrible movie.

Seth:

So bad.

Drew:

It was so, like, it was like, they tried.

Drew:

They were like, let's do the crow.

Drew:

As if a fifth grader just watched it and was wanting to make his own story.

Drew:

And then he just basically rewrites the crow, but not as good.

Kyle:

Basically, anytime some film snob.

Kyle:

And you know them, right?

Kyle:

Like, you're like, oh, well, Weinstein discovered and nurtured Tarantino's career.

Kyle:

It's like.

Kyle:

But he made City of Angels, literally.

Kyle:

What are we gonna do about that?

Kyle:

That's what got him in prison.

Seth:

Yes, his name's on Lord of the Rings, but the city of Angels.

Drew:

What if, like, he just had a busy week and the script was due and, like, I don't know, maybe there's some family stuff.

Drew:

Maybe he had another project he was working on and, like, if we knew his side, like, maybe he's like, look, I was already working 60 hours.

Drew:

I did what I could.

Kyle:

Yeah, that was a favor for a friend, for a bird.

Drew:

I lost a bet, and so.

Kyle:

Well, I gotta.

Kyle:

I'll kick off with this.

Kyle:

So I.

Kyle:

You know, when I look at sequels, I have a couple of different methods for assessing.

Kyle:

I think timing, timing, context is always the most important for any movie.

Seth:

Yeah.

Kyle:

y's standard that was made in:

Kyle:

It's not that you can't call out maybe the.

Kyle:

The less progressive ideals or whatever it is, but, you know, respecting it for what it was when it was made is important.

Seth:

Absolutely.

Kyle:

So that's part of it.

Kyle:

But also, James Cameron has this idea, and he talks about this in the t two and the end, aliens, too, and those sequels, that the sequel should stand on its own.

Kyle:

Like, you should not have to see any other movie in the franchise to enjoy the movie.

Kyle:

And I think that's interesting.

Kyle:

I don't necessarily think that's the truth, but I do think there's an element that you do want to make it that good.

Seth:

To me, I think it depends on whether or not it's a sequel or part two, because if it's, like, great example, Lord of the Rings, I will always bring anything back to Lord of the Rings if I can.

Seth:

Lord of the Rings to me is 111 and a half hour long movie put into three volumes.

Kyle:

Yes.

Seth:

That's a part one, part two, part three versus alien.

Seth:

Aliens.

Seth:

Alien three.

Seth:

Those are each their own.

Seth:

Yes.

Seth:

They're continuing a broader story, but they should start and end as if it's going to be the only entry into that part of the franchise.

Drew:

I like knowing that people go into directing sequels like that and having that knowledge there that some people are like, it should stand alone.

Drew:

I don't know if I agree with that, though.

Drew:

I think it should stand alone in that it says just as good of a movie.

Drew:

Four sequels are a thing, and we don't like those.

Drew:

But if I'm watching the crow part two, I want it to be connected to the crow part one, because I watched the crow part one, and I thought this was so good.

Drew:

Let me watch part two in this movie.

Drew:

Like, at no point does anyone be like, remember when this happened a couple years ago?

Kyle:

Yeah.

Drew:

Like.

Drew:

Like.

Drew:

And I.

Drew:

It's just.

Drew:

And I'm trying to conserve my thoughts.

Drew:

Cause I'm trying to keep two and three separate.

Seth:

Yeah, yeah.

Drew:

But, like, I feel like they should.

Drew:

Sequel should build on each other, and then as a result, like, the bad situation should always be escalated.

Drew:

Absolutely.

Drew:

Like, right.

Drew:

So.

Drew:

And honestly, the ending of this movie, like when the guy, when the bad guy got the crow powers, like, I was like, okay, cool.

Drew:

This is something bigger than last time.

Seth:

Threw it away.

Drew:

I was like, we should have gotten here sooner.

Drew:

This is, yeah.

Kyle:

Yeah.

Kyle:

Their choice to dip into the ethereal randomly, really.

Kyle:

Like the crow blowing up the palm trees where I flew by.

Kyle:

It was like, where the fuck did that come from?

Kyle:

Like, what coked out night did you guys write that?

Seth:

Suddenly there's like a Yde thousand crows and it's like, oh, wait, then why did the one crow matter?

Kyle:

Yeah.

Drew:

So at that point, I was so, like, done with this movie.

Drew:

I was, I pointed to my tv screen and I was like, sure, yeah.

Kyle:

And somehow two years later, the CGI is worse.

Kyle:

Yeah.

Drew:

Let's not forget to talk about the blood in the third movie.

Drew:

That, that's, that was, so we'll get there.

Seth:

But we got a whole other episode.

Drew:

For that one, too.

Drew:

Like, even, just again, like, the movie should be standalone.

Drew:

Good.

Drew:

And it should be the kind of movie, like, if you didn't see the first one, you could still enjoy the second one.

Drew:

But, like, I don't know, Sarah, at some point when she's helping this guy, she'd be like, hey, I've actually seen this before.

Kyle:

Yeah.

Seth:

See, I am just now finding out that Sarah is the character in the second movie.

Seth:

I had no idea.

Seth:

I would never have told you.

Seth:

Yeah, I had no clue.

Drew:

We talked about it before and where you confirmed it.

Drew:

I was on the fence because, like.

Drew:

But if I was writing the movie, she would have been the, I mean, not saying that I feel like other people might have suggested it's not just a Drew Davis exclusive idea here, but she should have been the crow.

Drew:

She should have been the one who got the powers.

Drew:

And even if she didn't die first, even.

Drew:

Cause she was seeing these visions, if she was able to help, I mean, I mean, I don't wanna, I don't know what the rules are to crows resurrecting you to become a vengeance machine.

Seth:

I mean, you kind of have to die to be resurrected.

Drew:

But that's the story.

Drew:

Maybe she dies and then she, that.

Kyle:

Was one of the ideas.

Kyle:

In fact, that idea got kicked around for a lot of the sequels is could we bring Sarah back and make her the crow?

Kyle:

That was one of the, it could have worked.

Seth:

I will say I will give.

Seth:

Cause I am the type of person, I will give credit where credit is due.

Seth:

That resurrection scene was actually amazing.

Kyle:

Yeah.

Seth:

I was so into that also.

Seth:

Just down to the stupid little scientific facts.

Seth:

About how, literally, him being underwater in a cold city like that would have fully preserved his body.

Seth:

That kind of was a little bit of a nitpicky problem I had with the first one is he was buried for a year.

Seth:

He wouldn't have had skin.

Seth:

He probably wouldn't have had muscle.

Seth:

The bones would have started to, like, decay.

Seth:

So there really is no reason he should have come back as a full blooded human being.

Kyle:

A good looking one, too.

Seth:

Yeah, exactly.

Drew:

He eventually heals, though.

Drew:

Like, he would have.

Drew:

I mean, maybe not right away, but, like, it would have.

Drew:

Sure.

Seth:

But still, it's just.

Seth:

It's like he just came out longer.

Seth:

He came out as if he had died the night before.

Drew:

Yeah, I.

Drew:

But I think because, honestly, with the whole movie, my biggest thing was, like, I could care less about ash.

Seth:

Yeah.

Drew:

Everything about ash.

Drew:

I was like, I don't care.

Drew:

Every time Sarah was in a scene, I was like, she's the main character in my brain.

Kyle:

Every time Ash talks to, you're just like, shut up.

Drew:

Yeah.

Seth:

What was with his accent?

Kyle:

Yeah, well, he's a.

Kyle:

He's a european actor.

Kyle:

He's a big deal.

Kyle:

So Vincent Perez is actually a big deal in Europe.

Seth:

I heard the name.

Kyle:

Yeah.

Seth:

I don't know anything about him.

Kyle:

He'd done a lot of, like, french historical romance movies.

Kyle:

He's like.

Kyle:

He was like a kind of a.

Drew:

So this was sex icon.

Drew:

This wasn't his niche.

Drew:

I mean, he's like, I'm more into french historical romance.

Kyle:

And I got plenty of randos about how they achieved the.

Kyle:

The lead actor for this.

Kyle:

Yeah.

Kyle:

You know, and we.

Kyle:

Earlier, we mentioned just two years later, not just the CGI, but they, you know, Brandon Lee's grave is not even settled yet.

Seth:

You know, literally.

Drew:

Yeah.

Kyle:

You know, it's so crazy how.

Kyle:

How much, you know, the trajectory of the first film had to do with his death and just kind of the hysteria, but also kind of the cult aspect of that.

Seth:

Yeah.

Kyle:

They're not even waiting two years, and we got a cash grab going on, and it's.

Seth:

Why it sounds like Harvey Weinstein.

Kyle:

Yeah, it sounds like Tarantino.

Drew:

So that was.

Drew:

So we're thinking then that this was, like, 100%, a four sequel cash grab, and not like the movie was made in this way, because they were attempting to pay respect to the first one, because I read a little bit about that where they asked the fans, what should we do?

Drew:

And they try to do justice with the first one, and then it seems like the second one was like, let's do it.

Drew:

Almost seems like it was a reboot before reboots were a thing.

Seth:

Yeah.

Kyle:

Yeah.

Kyle:

And I think it's weird.

Kyle:

I agree.

Kyle:

And I read that this is, like, the early days of message boards.

Kyle:

And they were, like, going to crow message boards and asking the fans.

Kyle:

And they literally somehow drifted back towards basically the same.

Kyle:

And they got a crow that they try.

Kyle:

You can tell with the hair.

Kyle:

It's almost like they were trying to remake Brandon Lee again.

Seth:

Right?

Drew:

Absolutely.

Kyle:

Yeah.

Kyle:

I mean, the makeup was worse.

Seth:

Yeah.

Drew:

Oh, that makeup scene was so cringey when I was like, she's.

Drew:

I was like, she's not like, she's.

Drew:

She's got a busy schedule.

Drew:

She's got some more tattoos on her.

Drew:

She's not putting a lot of time in.

Seth:

When he took his shirt off, my immediate thought was, is she about to fuck a dead guy?

Kyle:

I know.

Kyle:

And he's kind of a father figure.

Kyle:

Like the original one.

Kyle:

Because if he's, like, a metaphor for the original, like Draven.

Kyle:

Draven was almost like this caretaker type.

Drew:

Like, she was into him, though.

Kyle:

Yeah.

Kyle:

They did not do Sarah justice.

Kyle:

No, Sarah's not.

Kyle:

Sarah's nothing.

Kyle:

I wrote that on my notes.

Kyle:

Sarah is nothing.

Kyle:

Like I would have imagined her growing up eight years later.

Kyle:

She would be more well rounded, more street savvy.

Kyle:

I just don't.

Kyle:

I just don't.

Kyle:

This is not Sarah grown up to me.

Seth:

No, not at all.

Drew:

So much so where I was, we were.

Drew:

I mean, she's.

Drew:

We were not sure if she was the same Sarah.

Drew:

Maybe it was just a coincidence that another person finding a dead body risen, resurrected by.

Seth:

Like I said, had no idea.

Drew:

Honestly, I want to see one of these movies.

Drew:

Or maybe.

Drew:

Maybe they do a reboot of the whole series, but from the perspective of the crow.

Kyle:

Yeah.

Drew:

It's the same crow that keeps coming back and helping people.

Kyle:

Yeah.

Drew:

That crow's seen some shit.

Kyle:

Yeah, seen some stuff.

Kyle:

Was he back in the 14 hundreds?

Kyle:

And, you know, he's, like, resurrecting knights.

Seth:

He's just an immortal crow.

Drew:

And, like.

Drew:

And there's, like.

Drew:

There's like a.

Drew:

I don't know.

Drew:

Since the crow doesn't talk, I don't know if dialogue's the right word, but there's some interaction between ash and the crow.

Drew:

The crow always seems so annoyed, which I don't blame him.

Drew:

Like, I was annoyed on the crow's bath.

Seth:

I was like, when he's suiting up, the way it kept cutting back to the crow just looked like the crow was so hype.

Seth:

Just like, what the fuck, man?

Seth:

Look at this guy.

Drew:

What?

Kyle:

Yeah, dude, I know.

Kyle:

That's actually a really good idea from the bird's point of view, I think I just.

Drew:

I'm assuming it's the same crow.

Drew:

That crow is seeing a lot of weird stuff.

Seth:

Yeah.

Kyle:

Yeah, that's hilarious.

Kyle:

I love that idea.

Seth:

Now, granted, I have to say, I could see bits of the script that I was like, oh, he actually put some work into writing this thing, and it was just ruined by the director.

Kyle:

Yeah.

Seth:

Because here's my thing.

Seth:

If I watch a movie and one actor is over acting, I blame that actor.

Seth:

If every single actor in the entire movie is overacting, that is 100% the director's fault.

Seth:

And, my God, was this bad.

Kyle:

Yeah.

Kyle:

It feels like no one's in the same movie.

Seth:

No, no.

Drew:

It seems like none of them could care at all about.

Drew:

There was no.

Drew:

I mean, so, like, in the first one, it seemed like we talked about this, where we said, like, they all seemed like they were having a good time, all these villains.

Drew:

Like, yeah, they were one dimensional, but, like, each actor playing the villain was like, this is my.

Kyle:

They're finding their space.

Drew:

We're gonna have fun and that I'm gonna be the knife guy.

Drew:

You know?

Drew:

Like, they were having fun with it.

Drew:

And, like, I swear, all.

Drew:

Every character, the good guys, the bad guys, they all looked like they were just ready for their shift to be done.

Drew:

They were.

Drew:

So right from the beginning, I was really hoping, because in this movie, I did not enjoy it, but there kept being parts where I was like, oh, maybe this will turn into a good movie.

Drew:

And so the three parts where, like, I thought Sarah right away began, I was like, she's gonna become the crow, and that's gonna be awesome.

Drew:

But that didn't happen.

Drew:

And then there was one scene where Ash almost was interesting because he was like, he's like.

Drew:

He's like, wait a minute.

Drew:

What if I don't want to die?

Drew:

I was like, oh, my gosh.

Drew:

That's the movie where, like, he has these crow powers, and then he's torn between vengeance, which is his calling, and carnal, but, like, he doesn't want to go back to being dead.

Drew:

It's like, how's he figured out how to stay alive as the crow?

Drew:

And then I did.

Drew:

I did think it was really cool.

Drew:

And I'm coming up with all these great crow fan fiction movies here.

Seth:

I support.

Drew:

I really.

Drew:

So I did get cheesy and ridiculous, but when the main villain was it Noah was the main villain?

Drew:

Was he the main.

Kyle:

Jonah.

Drew:

Jonah.

Kyle:

Yeah, Jonah.

Kyle:

Earl, which should have been a redneck with the flannel in Copenhagen.

Kyle:

You hear his name before you see him.

Kyle:

I was thinking, oh, this guy's gonna be a hillbilly.

Seth:

Yeah.

Seth:

No, sexy black dude.

Drew:

He's the first black Jonah I think I've ever.

Drew:

He was raised by white gangsters.

Drew:

We already know, like, he was adopted or something.

Drew:

But, like, when he got the crow powers, when he, like.

Drew:

And that was still goes to, like, someone knew that this something had happened.

Drew:

So it, like, think it connected a little to the first one.

Drew:

Like, oh, this happened two years ago.

Drew:

What should we do?

Kyle:

Yeah.

Drew:

And, like, I think they should have gotten him crow powers earlier and should have made that bigger and then maybe not ended in so weird, but, like, 100% agree.

Drew:

Yeah, that was interesting to me when.

Seth:

That'S where I keep saying, like, the script, I feel like, was probably decent when it landed in front of the director.

Seth:

And I have a very strong feeling the director made a lot of changes before they even got to shooting.

Seth:

And then once they hit editing, it got even worse.

Kyle:

Yeah.

Kyle:

I actually have a rando for it, but the Weinsteins.

Seth:

Oh, okay.

Kyle:

Took to it.

Kyle:

Yeah.

Seth:

Cause knowing what he tried to do to Lord of the Rings, I can only imagine what he did to this.

Seth:

So we'll get there.

Drew:

We need a Snyder cut of crow.

Drew:

City of Angels.

Kyle:

Yeah.

Kyle:

If it tells you anything, like, if you want to buy the Blu ray of this, it's like a $100.

Kyle:

Cause they never even felt the impetus to do another run.

Kyle:

So you gotta go get them on eBay.

Kyle:

They're actually, like, a collectible.

Kyle:

Even though it's a really bad, like, they don't make them.

Seth:

I mean, it's so bad, it's funny.

Drew:

The extended version of it.

Kyle:

No, it's not there.

Kyle:

Yeah.

Kyle:

They actually do talk about it.

Kyle:

It's not.

Kyle:

It's not available.

Kyle:

And there's no.

Kyle:

No one has a desire.

Kyle:

No.

Drew:

When you.

Drew:

When you watch the movie, that's very believable.

Drew:

Nobody there looked like they were like, oh, look at me.

Drew:

I'm in a movie.

Drew:

They're like, not at all.

Seth:

Oh, my God.

Kyle:

The final note I had is, it's never good when a serious effort looks like a satire of itself.

Seth:

Yes.

Kyle:

It literally looks like it's a movie.

Kyle:

That's.

Kyle:

That's being.

Kyle:

It's satirizing the first one.

Kyle:

It's like a naked gun version movie.

Seth:

The Crow scary movie movie, too.

Kyle:

Yeah.

Kyle:

It's just like, oh, they meant that.

Kyle:

Yeah, that's real.

Kyle:

He's in a tunica yeah.

Kyle:

Yeah.

Seth:

Oh, that's serious.

Kyle:

Yeah.

Kyle:

There's so much we.

Kyle:

There's.

Kyle:

Oh, my God.

Kyle:

I know.

Kyle:

We got to get.

Kyle:

Get on.

Kyle:

But there's so much about Jonah that I just.

Kyle:

Why?

Kyle:

First of all, what is the thing?

Kyle:

He kills the crow on the sphere thing?

Kyle:

It's like, who has one of those, like, this.

Kyle:

This guy was a drug dealer.

Kyle:

He worked his way up to be the crime boss.

Kyle:

He wears a tunica.

Kyle:

He's got a blind oracle with a hood that looks like resident evil three.

Drew:

Absolutely.

Seth:

I think the actress was just so embarrassed.

Seth:

She was like, please don't show the top half of my face.

Kyle:

I will never get another job again.

Kyle:

And then even when you heard her.

Drew:

Backstory, you're like, that's an interesting movie.

Drew:

Yeah, let's have a movie on her.

Kyle:

Yeah.

Kyle:

Everything is more interesting than the crow.

Kyle:

You know, it's like.

Kyle:

Yeah.

Kyle:

And I'm just like, where did you get one of those things?

Kyle:

It's like, why are you, like, somehow, like, you're like, he's mystical.

Kyle:

Like, yeah, why is he mystical?

Drew:

And really, there wasn't.

Drew:

We didn't.

Drew:

There wasn't much about him up until, like, we saw him and he showed, like, there was more about the.

Drew:

The second lead henchman, I guess.

Drew:

I think that might be the one played by Iggy Bob.

Kyle:

Yeah.

Drew:

Like, his death and, like, the.

Drew:

The ash's attempt of monologue.

Drew:

And, like.

Drew:

Because I was like, I feel.

Drew:

I looked at, like, the times.

Drew:

I was like, I feel like we're not the end of the movie.

Drew:

I feel like I was like, what if this is the end?

Drew:

That was the main guy.

Drew:

He had to kill and.

Drew:

But, like, you didn't.

Drew:

Unless I might be wrong, but you didn't see Jonah anywhere in the actual.

Drew:

He was the guy behind the guys.

Seth:

Yeah.

Seth:

I mean, they.

Drew:

Up until they brought him up, I was like, who's this guy?

Seth:

They clearly were trying to recreate the.

Seth:

The mystery that they had with the first one of.

Seth:

Oh, you think this guy is the final boss?

Seth:

Oh, no.

Seth:

Then you realize that there is really a bigger boss.

Seth:

This just, like, they introduced him too early to make that happen, but then on top of that, didn't give us any information to give a shit as to why he's in charge of all of this.

Seth:

And then there was just this random, like, oh, by the way, he's kind of magic, too.

Kyle:

Yeah.

Kyle:

Yeah.

Drew:

He also knows how to steal the crow powers.

Seth:

Yeah.

Drew:

Which maybe they could have given us one more scene earlier in the movie where we learn why he knows this about.

Drew:

So when he hears about the crazy resurrected guy killing, we know why he knows all this stuff.

Drew:

Maybe he was a buddy drinking buddy with the villain from the first movie.

Kyle:

Yeah.

Kyle:

With top dollar.

Kyle:

Yeah.

Drew:

Oh, crap.

Drew:

Top dollar in his age.

Kyle:

He's like, I got some advice for you.

Kyle:

If you ever run into a crow, first eat an eyeball.

Kyle:

You gotta start with an eyeball.

Seth:

Gotcha.

Kyle:

And then you gotta do your sister.

Kyle:

Oh, what a movie this is.

Seth:

Oh, my God.

Kyle:

As a reminder, if you really love the city of angels, make sure you share this with your grandma, your friends.

Kyle:

I know you got a city of angels fan out there in your life.

Kyle:

Hit that sin button.

Drew:

Could you please tell us why you love this movie?

Seth:

I would love to know.

Drew:

Cause I do.

Drew:

I wanna hear a perspective.

Drew:

Maybe they're out there.

Drew:

I'm gonna YouTube it.

Drew:

I'm like, people who are biggest fans of City of angels.

Drew:

And, like, there's gotta be one guy who's like, let me tell you why.

Drew:

This is the best movie in the franchise.

Kyle:

Yeah.

Seth:

I'm gonna go on the crow subreddit and just be like, people who love this movie, please defend it, because what the fuck?

Drew:

I think I would rather you go and be like, I love City of Angels.

Drew:

It's the best movie ever.

Drew:

Watch that.

Seth:

You tell me why.

Kyle:

I think it's retroactive, actually.

Kyle:

I think what happened was they probably shat on it when it came out, and then they saw the next one and the next one, and they were like, maybe it wasn't that bad.

Kyle:

It was okay.

Kyle:

Cause it gets worse.

Drew:

I haven't seen the fourth yet, but I've heard that's the one.

Drew:

People are like, I think it has.

Kyle:

A 0% on Rotten Tomatoes.

Seth:

Holy shit.

Kyle:

He's got Dennis Hopper.

Kyle:

Edward Furlong.

Kyle:

What's the girl from american pie?

Kyle:

Tara Reid.

Drew:

I forgot about her.

Seth:

Yeah, everyone did.

Seth:

Don't worry about it.

Drew:

Well, I mean, I'm also, like, in my brain.

Drew:

I'm not lining up the timeframes.

Drew:

It's like her in american pie days in this movie.

Drew:

Yeah.

Drew:

So that's.

Seth:

he fourth one came out, what,:

Seth:

2006?

Drew:

That would make sense.

Seth:

So, yeah, it was like, right after the second american pie had come out.

Seth:

So obviously her career was already on a downward trend.

Kyle:

Can you do something besides take your clothes off?

Kyle:

Was there?

Kyle:

I'll try.

Drew:

They're like, well, we have a perfect move.

Drew:

You know, everyone loves the crow.

Kyle:

Do you remember Dennis Hopper?

Kyle:

He was a great actor.

Kyle:

Not anymore.

Seth:

We ruined that for you.

Kyle:

We basically took out a loan and we're helping them pay off that loan, so.

Kyle:

All right.

Kyle:

Oh, actually, not randos.

Kyle:

We're gonna do the.

Kyle:

We're gonna do the interview questions.

Kyle:

All right.

Seth:

Okay.

Kyle:

Seriously, did Sarah just have a crow making factory up there?

Kyle:

The moment a dead guy showed up, she's like, I know what to do.

Kyle:

She's got the makeup.

Kyle:

She got the paint, she's got the clothes.

Kyle:

Did you think about that when he's put the sweater in the trench coat?

Kyle:

Or.

Kyle:

He didn't have the coat yet.

Drew:

She had all the gear.

Kyle:

Yeah, you had the black leathers.

Drew:

And you gotta figure, if she's been trying to find the next crow, she has, like, multiple sizes.

Drew:

Cause who's to say?

Drew:

Yeah, you know?

Kyle:

She's like, God, I hope this fits.

Seth:

She's got the small to xl, and then if you got two x, then.

Seth:

I'm sorry, dude.

Seth:

You should have lost some weight before you got murdered.

Drew:

Yeah, she's putting in some major tattooing hours.

Kyle:

Got a little bloating down there in the water, mister medium.

Kyle:

Also, everyone in the city is struggling, right?

Kyle:

It's a crime ridden city.

Kyle:

Poor children are in the streets.

Kyle:

But she's a tattoo artist, and she's got sexy scarves hanging around her bed.

Drew:

What is.

Kyle:

What's going on with there?

Kyle:

What happened?

Seth:

Tattoo artist makes some serious bank.

Drew:

Okay.

Drew:

And that's, like, a real, like.

Drew:

Like a cyberpunk vibe.

Drew:

Like, everyone wants tattoo.

Drew:

Tattoos are like.

Drew:

That's a good.

Seth:

Oh, yeah.

Drew:

That's, like, a respectable job in this city.

Drew:

Is this.

Drew:

Is this supposed to be, like, a dystopian laden.

Drew:

Is that.

Drew:

Cause the city of Angela?

Kyle:

The first one was, like, dystopian Detroit, and this is dystopian La.

Drew:

So it's not the same city every time.

Kyle:

It's not.

Kyle:

Well, they don't ever make it clearly moved.

Drew:

But she needed to find a place comfortable, so she moved to a similar.

Kyle:

Right.

Drew:

Like, it'd either be, like, the wen from Crow one, dystopian La, Gotham, or Detroit.

Drew:

Like, those are her options.

Kyle:

Yeah, basically.

Seth:

Yeah.

Seth:

And she didn't want to hang out with Batman, so I need someplace where.

Drew:

My seasonal depression feels normal.

Kyle:

Yeah.

Kyle:

There's no Palm beach, you know, like, you know, resort.

Drew:

See, that's.

Drew:

It's interesting to me that, like, they don't keep it in the same place.

Drew:

Cause one of the things we're talking about in the first one was such a.

Drew:

It was so fun about the scenery, the fun, the, like, the vibe of the place and all the set design and everything like that.

Drew:

Like, it.

Drew:

It would be interesting if, as these movies kept going on, you saw, like, the state of this made up city.

Drew:

But it's like, now I'm realizing it's different places, and I'm like, that's.

Kyle:

Well, and I understand.

Kyle:

And where it really throws you off, where, like, there's this day of the dead motif.

Seth:

Yeah.

Kyle:

You know?

Kyle:

Wait, are we in Mexico City?

Drew:

Yeah.

Drew:

No one's speaking New Orleans?

Seth:

No, it's LA.

Seth:

It's basically Mexico.

Kyle:

Yeah.

Kyle:

Wait a second.

Kyle:

And actually, I actually thought the day of the dead motif was kind of cool.

Drew:

I liked that.

Drew:

Yeah.

Drew:

Yeah, that was right when we started going through that parade was when I was like, oh, this movie might actually have potential.

Seth:

Yeah.

Drew:

You might have my attention again.

Kyle:

Then.

Kyle:

Part I liked.

Seth:

That's where I'm like, I feel like the script was solid.

Seth:

Like, they started with some decent stuff, and then it just devolved into whatever this was.

Kyle:

Even though if you really zoom in on the people partying and dancing, they look like they're acting.

Kyle:

They don't look like they're, like, at a rave.

Kyle:

Like, you tell one guy was like, whoa.

Kyle:

It was like, you're not high.

Seth:

It's like, you tell everyone to dance, but you don't have any music, so everyone's got a different beat going on in their head.

Kyle:

No one told me I was gonna.

Drew:

Have to do this.

Drew:

Also, like, her friend who eventually died, like, the old guy that.

Drew:

Was he a tattoo customer or was he.

Drew:

I think it was just a.

Drew:

Oh.

Seth:

The tattoo shop owner.

Drew:

Oh, he's the owner.

Seth:

Yeah.

Drew:

Creepy vibe.

Drew:

Like their tattoo hr department.

Kyle:

Really?

Seth:

Yeah, like a daughter to me.

Seth:

But I'd fuck you, too.

Drew:

I was like, that is you, you.

Drew:

Yeah.

Drew:

But, hey, maybe in that city.

Drew:

But you know what?

Drew:

At that point, she's, like, used to it.

Drew:

She's lived there for a while.

Drew:

She's like, look, good.

Drew:

Help's hard to find.

Drew:

He's, you know, he at least gives me a paycheck.

Drew:

I don't know.

Seth:

Everybody's horny.

Kyle:

Everybody.

Drew:

I need the money to pay for my crow attire for the dead guys I'm picking up on the street.

Seth:

I'm missing an xl from the last guy.

Kyle:

Next question.

Kyle:

At what stage of the.

Kyle:

The villain life cycle do you get to just wear a tunic around?

Kyle:

They tell you, you hear his name, they drop his name.

Kyle:

I think Sarah is the one that drops his name.

Kyle:

And what's funny is you don't even know it's the Sarah yet, because you're like, wait, is this the Sarah?

Kyle:

And they say, jonah, Earl, I'm like, this guy's got Copenhagen and a flannel.

Kyle:

There's no doubt.

Kyle:

This guy's got a double barrel shotgun and a spit tune.

Drew:

The confederate flag.

Kyle:

You're like, what is that?

Kyle:

Like, the tunic.

Kyle:

He's jacked.

Kyle:

He's, like, beautiful.

Kyle:

He's like.

Kyle:

I'll say it.

Kyle:

He's a beautiful man.

Kyle:

Absolutely.

Kyle:

He's got the damn tunic on.

Kyle:

It's like, what is this?

Seth:

He looked like he came straight out of the mummy movie.

Drew:

Like, he can pull a tunic off because he looks like that.

Kyle:

Yeah.

Drew:

Like, if I showed up as, like, the final boss in a tunic, they'd be like, put some clothes on.

Drew:

This is embarrassing for both of us.

Drew:

Like.

Drew:

Like, ash would be like, I am not gonna kill you in the horrible way.

Drew:

Horrible way I've planned until you put a sweatshirt on in both of us.

Drew:

Uncomfortable.

Seth:

Like, I was gonna kill you, but now I just feel kind of bad for you, bro.

Kyle:

Yeah.

Seth:

So we need to get the what not to wear people in here.

Kyle:

I just can't imagine, like, when you start, like, you start entry level, you're dealing, like, crack or whatever on the streets and, like, where along the line you just envisioning the tunic once you.

Drew:

Move on to action warlord, and then.

Kyle:

Give me the stone orb so I can sacrifice a soul carrying crow.

Seth:

Yeah.

Drew:

You know, I bet you bought him at the same place, though.

Drew:

I bet you like the tunic.

Drew:

Came with the tunics.

Seth:

Rs.

Kyle:

Is this what I think it is?

Drew:

They're like, you can't use this to sacrifice a crow unless you're wearing this.

Drew:

It's like, I want to be a great archaic wizard, but I want to look the part, too.

Drew:

I'm a villain, not a monster.

Kyle:

It's true.

Kyle:

I love the idea of him going to the villain store and.

Kyle:

Is that the stone orb?

Kyle:

I thought you were out of those.

Drew:

He's lived in this dystopia in LA for so long.

Drew:

He's like, everyone dresses the same.

Drew:

It's only a green color scheme.

Seth:

Let's be real, though.

Seth:

LA is the only city you could get away with.

Kyle:

Yeah, it's all about branding.

Kyle:

I used to do.

Kyle:

I used to have a bit about.

Kyle:

And it's funny.

Kyle:

I actually got the worst heckle I've ever gotten in my comedy career.

Kyle:

We had.

Kyle:

I don't know if you were back at Nashville yet, but we had the waffle house killer.

Kyle:

Oh, that killed all those people.

Drew:

I miss that.

Drew:

And I would have totally been a target there.

Drew:

I would have been like, yeah, I would.

Kyle:

And it was at Antioch, if you're not in, and if you're not in Nashville, you know, Antioch's like our kind of our crime ridden area.

Drew:

I lived there for three years.

Drew:

I got all three of my roommates.

Drew:

We got robbed at the same Burger King at different times.

Drew:

We didn't realize it.

Drew:

And then, like, one of us shared a story, and they're like, oh, I have a story.

Drew:

And then we realize it's all the same place.

Drew:

And I was like, we should stop going there.

Kyle:

You're like, this isn't a lounge.

Kyle:

You said this was a lounge.

Kyle:

A BK lounge.

Kyle:

So anyway, so I had this bit about how, like, you need to, like, if you want to be a serial killer or kill people, you need to, like, do it in a good place.

Kyle:

So your branding is good, because if you do it at Waffle House, you're the Waffle house killer.

Kyle:

You're a redneck or you can't speak.

Kyle:

You don't have a great iq.

Kyle:

So, like, Nordstrom Rat killer.

Drew:

There you go.

Seth:

Respectfully.

Kyle:

So that's where you gotta aim.

Kyle:

And then I had a woman in the crowd go, my friend got killed there.

Drew:

Oh, my God.

Seth:

Oh, no.

Kyle:

And I was a guest.

Kyle:

I was a guest host.

Kyle:

And, like, usually I would have, like, I had all these ideas.

Kyle:

Like, I was like, oh, but I'm not gonna get kicked out of my friends, Mike.

Kyle:

And so I was like, oh, okay.

Seth:

That's always the worst feeling when you're guest hosting, is realizing you might be the reason your friends mic goes, right?

Kyle:

Yes.

Kyle:

Yeah.

Kyle:

And you guys know if I said the name of the person who was, you would know why I didn't do it.

Kyle:

I was like, I can't ruin this.

Kyle:

I can't ruin this.

Drew:

That's funny.

Kyle:

So anyway, it's all about branding for Jonah Earl.

Drew:

I think he's doing a good job.

Kyle:

He is.

Drew:

He's memorable for a man named Jonah Earl.

Drew:

He is like, he's gone from rags to a tuna.

Drew:

I was gonna say rags to riches, but, like, maybe he's saving money on the clothing he needed to buy the pay for the oracle lady.

Drew:

She's probably high on the payroll.

Kyle:

I still think top dollar snorting eyeball smoke is better.

Kyle:

He's just trying.

Kyle:

He's still somehow not even in that strategy.

Kyle:

Until you snort the smoke of an organ out of someone you killed.

Kyle:

You're nowhere, man.

Drew:

No, that.

Drew:

Yeah, I was like, that seems a bit much.

Drew:

Settle down.

Seth:

Yeah, it's so unfortunate.

Seth:

Like, when a movie, you can see the glimpses, but it's all so bad.

Seth:

Cause, like, throughout the whole thing, I kept seeing that the DP and the pyro guy knew exactly, exactly what they were doing.

Seth:

The DP literally was like, I don't care how bad this is turning out, I'm gonna put in the work.

Seth:

I'm gonna make this look as good as it can, no matter how bad this director makes it.

Seth:

And I gotta say, he delivered, like, everything looked fantastic.

Seth:

I had no complaints with any of the camera work whatsoever.

Kyle:

The camera work was actually, I thought, spectacular.

Seth:

Absolutely.

Kyle:

What was happening in front of the camera, not good.

Kyle:

But the framing was creative, the movement.

Drew:

So much with the camera.

Drew:

They were probably like, I wish I could.

Drew:

At some point, they're like, I should just get out there and do the acting for this.

Kyle:

He was.

Kyle:

Someday I'll film Daniel Day Lewis, but right now I have Ben to Perez.

Drew:

Yeah.

Kyle:

I don't even know what he's saying.

Seth:

I don't even think he wants to be here.

Kyle:

And the haze.

Kyle:

I love.

Kyle:

I did love the haziness.

Kyle:

We do have a category for this, but I did love.

Kyle:

I did like the first one better because it felt more like a place that exists.

Kyle:

Like, I was like, that place exists somewhere.

Kyle:

This felt more ethereal, really fictional.

Kyle:

Yeah.

Kyle:

But I did love that everything kind of had smog and you couldn't see far in front of you.

Kyle:

I did dig that a little bit.

Drew:

I thought it was a little cheesy.

Drew:

Like, I thought.

Drew:

I thought I was.

Drew:

I was like, it's like they're pretending to be a bad movie.

Drew:

I was like, they're like, how can we.

Drew:

It's like they were.

Drew:

They saw what was going on.

Drew:

They're like, well, let's lead in.

Seth:

Let's put smog in there and not the dragon.

Kyle:

What's a really bad city?

Kyle:

Like, you can't see 3ft in front of you, Todd.

Kyle:

That's what it is.

Seth:

We're going to Shanghai.

Kyle:

Get your cigarettes ready.

Seth:

Yeah.

Kyle:

Randos.

Seth:

Here we go.

Kyle:

Randos.

Kyle:

People are so glad randos are back, by the way.

Drew:

I'm so glad, bro.

Kyle:

And you put in your.

Drew:

I made a new name for, like, I call.

Drew:

That's the Rand bros.

Drew:

Rand bros.

Drew:

Yeah.

Kyle:

Yeah.

Kyle:

That's amazing.

Kyle:

.:

Kyle:

Couldn't do that shit.

Drew:

Drew, if you're listening, Drew 1.0.

Drew:

I I hope we meet.

Drew:

And it's not like a western.

Drew:

Dual type.

Kyle:

Movie.

Kyle:

Wars host in one room.

Kyle:

This is awkward.

Kyle:

Aren't you the quarter mile guy?

Drew:

And then they all come in.

Seth:

Vin Diesel stands behind him.

Seth:

You don't insult my family.

Kyle:

We're a family.

Drew:

We're not co host.

Drew:

I'm contractually obligated at least once to mention fast and furious.

Seth:

Absolutely.

Kyle:

You have to.

Seth:

Yeah.

Drew:

And I feel like we just did so good.

Kyle:

Yeah, yeah.

Kyle:

You're so good at dropping it in there.

Kyle:

All right, Randos.

Kyle:

James Obar was going to.

Kyle:

So the author of the original Crow comic was going to write this, and once he started to, you know, join the team and work on the film, he couldn't do it.

Kyle:

Seeing someone else at the crow was really hard for him.

Kyle:

Him and Brandon became very close friends.

Kyle:

In fact, there's a couple of interviews where Brandon's not clear about it, and there's this one interview in particular where Brandon was in his drab and he was kind of almost method out.

Kyle:

He was almost talking like he was draven.

Kyle:

But the way he's talking about Obar, and like I mentioned on the first podcast, Obar had gone through a lot of stuff in his life, and that's what led him to write it.

Kyle:

You could tell that they had become friends, and he was kind of joking around about him.

Kyle:

He's like, he's not the kind of guy you want to bring home to your mom.

Kyle:

And like, he's like.

Kyle:

But he was like, James would want me to say that.

Kyle:

He says that.

Kyle:

And you could tell they had a very endearing friendship, and James couldn't do it.

Kyle:

And so he.

Kyle:

He gave everything, him and David.

Kyle:

Sorry, how can I.

Kyle:

David S.

Kyle:

Goyer.

Kyle:

David S.

Kyle:

Goye.

Kyle:

I almost say Goyle, or, yeah, David S.

Kyle:

Goyer were splitting duties on that, but he ended up saying, you do it all.

Kyle:

And for those that don't know, some of you may.

Kyle:

As bad as this movie is, David S.

Kyle:

Goyer becomes the person that writes all of Nolan's, Batman's, Terminator, Dark Fate, and some of the modern Superman movies.

Drew:

Yeah, this is like the start, the foundation.

Kyle:

Rough start.

Drew:

Yeah.

Seth:

Hey, you gotta start somewhere.

Drew:

Can I pose a question from that Brando, please.

Drew:

So I know that there's multiple crow comics.

Drew:

Do these movies follow what, like, was this storyline, what the second comic was?

Kyle:

So the first, actually, the first crow was based on a consolidation of four.

Kyle:

So there were four comics, I believe, and I'm sorry if I'm getting a number wrong, was the late eighties, early nineties.

Kyle:

Please go to Reddit.

Kyle:

Please rip Kyle to shrimp and talk about my mother.

Kyle:

She's fair.

Seth:

Dad.

Drew:

Make a new slur just for Kyle.

Kyle:

Yeah, you Castro hole.

Drew:

You can do better than that.

Drew:

But that's the bar right now.

Drew:

That's the one to beat Castro Hole.

Kyle:

Yeah, that's a very low bar.

Drew:

Gotta start somewhere.

Kyle:

The fact that I came up with something so bad is insulting.

Kyle:

Maybe I deserve.

Kyle:

I deserve.

Seth:

It's in line with city of angels.

Seth:

So keep going.

Kyle:

Yes.

Drew:

Castrate yourself.

Drew:

So these other movies, are they related to the actual.

Kyle:

A little bit?

Kyle:

They, they do.

Kyle:

There were other ideas.

Kyle:

Obar did continue to write more.

Kyle:

So there were other ideas.

Kyle:

He wrote.

Kyle:

And he also had offered more ideas throughout the franchise.

Kyle:

There was one where there was like a Native American.

Kyle:

One where like the crow was actually like a Native American who died like in pre America and came back during modern times.

Kyle:

And so not only is he like alive now to revenge, but he has to get used to modern life.

Seth:

Yeah, that could have been so good.

Seth:

Yeah.

Drew:

That sounds like a great movie.

Kyle:

Yeah.

Kyle:

And there's another one where like a pregnant woman dies and she comes back to avenge her.

Drew:

Oh no, that's sad.

Drew:

But that would be a good movie.

Kyle:

There were all these creative ideas.

Seth:

I was really hoping you were gonna say the baby came back as a baby, but like with a gun played by Alec Baldwin.

Drew:

If the crow character was like, when she came back, she was still pregnant and still dealing with like pregnancy stuff, but with the crow humor.

Drew:

She's like talking about cravings or talking about her cramps and like, I'm just.

Kyle:

Saying my sciatica's acting up.

Kyle:

I can't do this right now.

Drew:

Yeah, my psychiatric, like, she just becomes.

Seth:

Where's the pickles and mustard?

Drew:

She's dealing with the psychoticness of the, you know, I imagine it's a lot to be from the dead and not pregnant, but then also, like pregnant stuff.

Kyle:

And in these heels.

Drew:

That would have been a good crow too, if Sarah was the pregnant lady that died.

Kyle:

And that's the thing.

Kyle:

Yeah, and that's the thing.

Kyle:

And there was one where Sarah dies and she comes back.

Kyle:

There was another one where top dollar was supposed to be resurrected.

Drew:

So to kill all of.

Kyle:

And they were gonna be resurrected by a bad crow.

Kyle:

And so.

Kyle:

And you see it in this movie.

Drew:

I love that.

Drew:

Yeah.

Kyle:

Yeah.

Kyle:

There were all these better ideas.

Kyle:

Literally.

Kyle:

Even the worst one I just mentioned is still better.

Kyle:

And they went to the message board and asked a bunch of questions.

Kyle:

Yeah, we should do that.

Kyle:

And then he's ended up like basically doing a cut and paste with worst actors.

Kyle:

And it's pretty amazing, but yeah.

Kyle:

And throughout the entire franchise, Barr did continue to produce more comics and ideas and a lot of them were interesting.

Kyle:

So.

Kyle:

But they weren't interested in it.

Kyle:

They had a formula.

Kyle:

They knew what worked, they knew what people wanted.

Kyle:

And, and honestly, we'll get to this in three.

Kyle:

But that's what led to the third one, going straight to vhs, was that it originally was supposed to have a theater release.

Kyle:

But the.

Seth:

I was gonna ask actually.

Kyle:

Yeah.

Seth:

Okay.

Kyle:

The performance of this movie was not only it.

Kyle:

Well, actually, it didn't.

Kyle:

It's not that it didn't, it wasn't profitable.

Kyle:

It was actually, at the time, the biggest Labor Day release of all time.

Seth:

Oh, wow.

Kyle:

At the time.

Kyle:

But fans were so disappointed.

Kyle:

Critics hated it so much.

Kyle:

It was so pan.

Kyle:

This is before the Internet was, was predominant.

Kyle:

So, like, we're talking newspaper critics and you're shitting all over.

Kyle:

And.

Kyle:

Yes, and the fan sentiment was so bad that they're like, we can't, we're not gonna fund this to go to theater.

Kyle:

So that's why the third one, salvation, ended up being straight to Vrdev.

Seth:

I'm going to save my thoughts on the third one.

Seth:

I have so many thoughts.

Kyle:

I have a lot of thoughts.

Kyle:

Anyway, it's super interesting.

Kyle:

Once I saw Goyer's name on this, I was like, holy smokes.

Kyle:

This is where he got his start.

Kyle:

Like, that's wild.

Kyle:

Obviously, no one Batman's are okay.

Kyle:

Yeah, I liked him pretty damn good.

Seth:

Which I will say, he wrote the script for the first one and then worked with Nolan.

Seth:

Both the Nolan's on the story for the second two.

Kyle:

Right.

Seth:

So, yeah, he was like, what if.

Drew:

We brought in more crows and men in Tunis?

Drew:

And they're like, you're just gonna work with us?

Kyle:

Yeah, like they didn't know he wrote City of angels.

Kyle:

And like, the first one comes out and they, they bring him to them.

Kyle:

Like, listen, Batman begins was good, but we found out what you did.

Drew:

Yeah, we need to take you off.

Kyle:

We saw Vincent Perez.

Kyle:

Dude, get the fuck outta here.

Kyle:

We'll put your name on it.

Kyle:

But you're.

Drew:

I bet you.

Drew:

Cause it seems like he's a guy that knows how to do things.

Drew:

When you look at his whole line of work there, I bet you winda City of angels came out.

Drew:

He was like telling his friends, like, please don't.

Kyle:

Yeah, don't go.

Kyle:

We're like, it's like us telling friends not to come to an open mic.

Kyle:

Everyone's high.

Kyle:

Yeah, there's the crowds high.

Seth:

No, no, something come to this other one, but not the mic.

Drew:

Please wash it when you're high.

Seth:

Yeah.

Seth:

Obliterated.

Seth:

So you don't remember.

Kyle:

Don't bring mom.

Kyle:

Please, God, don't bring mom.

Seth:

Unless you hate her.

Seth:

Then bring her.

Kyle:

Then bring her.

Seth:

Yeah.

Kyle:

So anyway.

Drew:

Oh, I'm sorry.

Kyle:

No, but no, no, I was like.

Drew:

Or the opposite.

Drew:

He's like, the one person in America that's like, this was freaking genius.

Seth:

This is the best thing.

Kyle:

I basically have established myself.

Seth:

Yeah, this is my:

Seth:

Okay.

Kyle:

Oh, man.

Kyle:

So next, Rando.

Kyle:

The weight of replacing Lee weighted heavy.

Kyle:

We alluded to this earlier with.

Kyle:

How did they land on Vincent Perez?

Kyle:

They auditioned 300 people.

Drew:

Wow.

Kyle:

Until Vincent Perez was.

Kyle:

Was hired.

Kyle:

You know who the leading was?

Seth:

Who?

Kyle:

Bon Jovi.

Drew:

That would have been awesome.

Kyle:

Jon Bon Jovi was the.

Kyle:

The lead to.

Kyle:

He was the number one choice.

Kyle:

Now it's really interesting.

Kyle:

It makes sense in one way.

Kyle:

Bon Jovi did do some movies.

Kyle:

Like, the first movie I ever saw him was that really shitty romance movie moonlight and Valentino.

Kyle:

You ever seen?

Kyle:

I watched that with my mom.

Kyle:

She was drunk.

Kyle:

Yeah, yeah.

Kyle:

And I was sad.

Drew:

And you were wishing you were drunk.

Kyle:

I was getting Virginia slim secondhand smoking my hair.

Kyle:

Like, man, Bonjovi has beautiful hair, you know, and.

Kyle:

But it makes sense.

Kyle:

And they have this obsession with Iggy Pop because James Barr in the comics, like, all the body.

Kyle:

Like, the reason he is jacked.

Kyle:

And I agree with your sentiment on why Lee looks so jacked coming out of the grave, but Iggy Pop was the frame.

Kyle:

Like, he was like, who inspired him?

Kyle:

So Iggy Pop is very jacked.

Kyle:

You see him old in this movie.

Kyle:

Very jacked.

Kyle:

That was his thing.

Kyle:

Shirtless, really muscular, really athletic.

Kyle:

And so he was the inspiration for a lot of the bodies in the comics.

Kyle:

And this and the first two crow movies are directed by Alex Proyas and Tim Pope, our music video directors.

Kyle:

That's where they got their start.

Seth:

Yeah, I noticed that.

Drew:

It always sounds like it's like the start of a really.

Drew:

Like, there's gonna be an eighties electric guitar at any point.

Kyle:

Yeah.

Kyle:

And the movies intentionally look like music videos.

Kyle:

That's why the soundtracks are always really important.

Kyle:

And even though this one's not as good, it is a bright point.

Kyle:

The soundtrack was still fun.

Seth:

It was all right.

Seth:

Yeah, it's one of those things.

Seth:

I'm shocked with how many David Bowie videos.

Seth:

What's his name, Tim Pope had done.

Seth:

I'm shocked they didn't try to get David Bowie in, especially after labyrinth.

Kyle:

Did he do I'm afraid of Americans?

Kyle:

That music video with Trent Reznor and David Bowie.

Kyle:

I'm afraid of Americans?

Kyle:

I love that song.

Kyle:

I'm afraid I can't help it.

Kyle:

I'm afraid I can turn on it.

Kyle:

Sorry.

Drew:

Comment below with your favorite David Bowie song.

Kyle:

Yeah.

Kyle:

And your favorite American that you're afraid of probably works at some gas station.

Kyle:

All right, I already kind of hinted on this, but originally, top dollar and Grange.

Kyle:

We're gonna be resurrected by a bad crow, which I think would have added such an interesting thing.

Kyle:

Now we have good crows, and we obviously learned at the end there are thousands of crows out there.

Drew:

What are they doing?

Kyle:

Just doing shit.

Drew:

Yeah.

Seth:

Flying through people.

Kyle:

It's like, hey, I don't have a soul right now.

Kyle:

If you want me to kill Jonah, I can fly at him.

Kyle:

I don't have a guy, but they're like a sign, like once or something.

Kyle:

Like, sorry, I got two crows this week.

Kyle:

I got two resurrections this week.

Kyle:

I can't.

Drew:

It's my night off.

Drew:

But Betty.

Kyle:

I know Betty.

Kyle:

Her guy didn't show up.

Kyle:

He actually didn't resurrect.

Kyle:

So she can fly into Jonah and create bad CGI.

Kyle:

So ask Betty and her, but her pals.

Seth:

Someone needs to do an animated series that is not just from the perspective of a crow, but all the crows, as if they have, like, a gigantic office, and there's, like, they have the boss crow who's giving them, like, pep talks before they all go to their resurrectors.

Seth:

Yeah.

Seth:

An it department.

Drew:

Bunch of regular murderers.

Seth:

Oh, my gosh.

Drew:

Ed does the same joke every week, and we have to laugh at it.

Kyle:

It kind of goes back to your idea, though, like, from the perspective of the crow.

Kyle:

There's, like, a break room.

Kyle:

They're all smoking.

Kyle:

Like, God.

Seth:

Yeah.

Drew:

Or like, they last guy, they have some guys.

Drew:

He was so badass.

Drew:

Like, that Brandon Lee guy.

Drew:

He was so awesome.

Drew:

And then they like, man, this.

Drew:

He was.

Drew:

He was such a fat.

Kyle:

Like, he was unmotivated.

Drew:

Even with super speed.

Drew:

He was like, so, like, the bad guys.

Drew:

I had to help him murder them.

Seth:

I was like.

Drew:

I had to do weight to carry his.

Kyle:

I love this.

Kyle:

We just went full circle on your idea earlier.

Kyle:

That's amazing.

Drew:

I tell you, that's.

Drew:

That's the.

Drew:

That it should be a crow animated series.

Drew:

Yeah.

Drew:

With the crow.

Drew:

Like, use that animation.

Seth:

I'll produce it.

Kyle:

We gotta make money on this.

Kyle:

Yeah, yeah, the crow.

Drew:

The crows.

Kyle:

Oh, I love it.

Kyle:

So this is really cool.

Kyle:

This was my favorite, Rando.

Kyle:

And it's kind of wild that.

Kyle:

That, at the time, you wouldn't have had a clue, but the band.

Kyle:

Did you know who the band playing at the Dead festival was at the day of the Dead festival.

Kyle:

No, the Deftones.

Kyle:

That was.

Kyle:

It was before their first record ever came out.

Kyle:

They hadn't even released a record.

Kyle:

This was their first track.

Kyle:

Oh, Chino and Chino.

Kyle:

Chino Marino.

Kyle:

Steven Carpenter.

Kyle:

I love the Deftones.

Drew:

Yeah.

Kyle:

That's why I love this.

Kyle:

I love the Deftones.

Kyle:

And.

Kyle:

But anyway, you.

Kyle:

No one knew where they were and they were the way the band.

Kyle:

But, you know, Chino still had dreadlocks, locks then.

Kyle:

So I just thought that was cool.

Drew:

That's cool.

Drew:

I remember, I think you told me that and I was like, oh, that's fun.

Drew:

It goes to show you that.

Drew:

And the last one, we're talking about how much the music added to the movie.

Drew:

But we learned in this movie that if you just have good music, it doesn't necessarily mean a good movie.

Drew:

You also have to have, like, one of those.

Drew:

What are they called?

Drew:

A plot.

Drew:

Yeah, yeah.

Kyle:

The thing under.

Kyle:

It's gotta be.

Kyle:

It's kind of gotta be good music.

Drew:

Takes it from good to great, but without others things.

Drew:

It's just like, oh, that's a fun song.

Kyle:

Yeah.

Kyle:

It's like, what if we put a really good song over it?

Kyle:

Is that gonna fix it up?

Kyle:

We'll try, Tim.

Kyle:

And this.

Kyle:

You already alluded to this a lot.

Kyle:

The film submitted at two and a half hours.

Kyle:

That was Pope's version.

Seth:

Oh, my God.

Kyle:

And usually there's the pro.

Kyle:

I don't understand.

Kyle:

I did research on this and I could never really find all the details.

Kyle:

But usually the director's not left in the dark with how long the final runtime is.

Kyle:

But the story here is.

Kyle:

And it's kind of hard to believe he submitted it at two and a half hours.

Kyle:

And then without his knowledge, Bob and Harvey Weinstein cut it down to 84 minutes.

Kyle:

And they kind of, like, went to it with a machete.

Kyle:

Yeah, there's missing scenes, there's massive chunks of the story.

Kyle:

There's a lot of stuff that probably got this leading us to ask the questions we're asking.

Drew:

Yeah, it might have been an awesome movie.

Seth:

Like I said, it's not surprising because Harvey Weinstein originally asked Peter Jackson to make Lord of the Rings in two movies.

Seth:

And then once they wrote two movies, he was like, now you need to make the whole thing in one movie.

Drew:

Huh?

Seth:

Like, I.

Seth:

And I mean, don't get me wrong, Harvey put out a fuck ton of good movies.

Seth:

Fuck that guy.

Seth:

But he put out a lot of good movies.

Seth:

So it's like, I understand.

Seth:

He kind of knew what he was doing with certain things, but like, there comes a point when you're just.

Seth:

You cut the life out of something.

Seth:

Like, you can't just cut it down to, like, the bare minimum and still.

Seth:

Still expect it to have everything in it that made it good in the first place.

Kyle:

Right?

Kyle:

Shall we war?

Seth:

Let's do it.

Kyle:

Shall we crow?

Kyle:

Shall we fly?

Seth:

Let's crow.

Kyle:

That's right.

Kyle:

Top bill class.

Kyle:

Fuck the old granddad top Bill Cass.

Kyle:

And remember, the crow flies is our affirmative.

Kyle:

Yes.

Kyle:

This is great.

Kyle:

And our negative is eat crow.

Kyle:

It's bad.

Kyle:

Hate it.

Seth:

I still think it should be that crow.

Seth:

That's Crow Raven.

Kyle:

That's Crow Raven.

Kyle:

Yeah.

Kyle:

Just in case I didn't have enough time for this random, but all the birds in these movies are actually ravens, so Edgar Allan Poe would be proud.

Seth:

Of what I've heard.

Seth:

And, cuz.

Seth:

Cuz.

Seth:

Don't judge me, y'all.

Seth:

There's a movie I grew up watching called the Omega Code, which was, like, a better version of left behind.

Kyle:

Yeah.

Seth:

There's a shot right near the beginning where they had to get this.

Seth:

This.

Seth:

It was supposed to be a crow flying away.

Seth:

And every time they used an actual crow, it just would not do what they wanted.

Seth:

They bring in a raven first take.

Seth:

It does exactly what they want.

Seth:

Ravens are just easier to train.

Drew:

But crows are too busy resurrecting people for revenge plans.

Drew:

Like, let's not.

Kyle:

This is the first cigarette I've had all day.

Seth:

I'm not flying nowhere.

Drew:

Let the ravens be actors.

Drew:

Let the crows be the supernatural being.

Kyle:

I got a Vincent Perez on my schedule.

Kyle:

I can't do this, man.

Kyle:

I can't do this job anymore.

Seth:

I have a very, very good idea of where all of our votes are going to go.

Kyle:

I had a cousin who was in the birds.

Kyle:

I could have made a lot of money.

Kyle:

I was sick that week.

Kyle:

Damn you.

Kyle:

H one, n one or whatever.

Kyle:

Is that what that one was?

Drew:

Yeah, I think so.

Kyle:

I get lost in the numbers.

Kyle:

Top bill cast.

Kyle:

Vincent Perez could care less.

Drew:

He could have not been in the movie.

Drew:

And I would have been like, it's fine.

Seth:

He should have picked an accent and stuck with it, because there were moments his europeanness would come through, and then others were like, are you trying to be american?

Seth:

Like, what are you doing here?

Drew:

The only cool secret was when he was, like, riding the motorcycle.

Kyle:

But, yeah, that's my favorite scene.

Drew:

Yeah, I think I just liked the motorcycle.

Drew:

Yeah, the motorcycle did most of the work in that scene.

Kyle:

If the rest of the movie somehow captured, I was.

Kyle:

I had that in my notes.

Kyle:

I loved.

Kyle:

I actually loved that scene.

Kyle:

I hate this movie.

Kyle:

It's complete garbage.

Kyle:

That was cool.

Seth:

Yeah.

Kyle:

The haze, the birds flying with them.

Kyle:

The camera work is right on.

Kyle:

Like, why couldn't they just, like, capture a little bit of this and put this elsewhere?

Kyle:

But, yeah, that was his best acting.

Kyle:

But no notice he's not saying much.

Seth:

Yeah.

Kyle:

The crows talking a lot.

Drew:

So far.

Drew:

I feel like they try to give the crows some personality.

Drew:

And I will say, and maybe this is supporting guys, but I liked the crow in this movie a lot.

Drew:

Like, he seemed like a fun crow.

Kyle:

Yeah, he was kind of.

Kyle:

What's the word I'm looking for?

Kyle:

He was a little finicky.

Kyle:

It was kind of.

Kyle:

Yeah.

Kyle:

Unpredictable.

Seth:

The crow was a bro.

Kyle:

The crow.

Kyle:

Bro.

Seth:

The crow.

Kyle:

Raven.

Kyle:

And I'm looking back at the quotes, like, for example, I'm.

Kyle:

I'm all your nightmares rolled into one.

Kyle:

For example, every line he delivered was really hurried, and maybe it was an accent or something.

Kyle:

I'm all your nightmares rolled into one.

Kyle:

I'm like, what is this?

Kyle:

Like, street fighter?

Seth:

That's where.

Seth:

That's where I'm like, okay.

Seth:

I could see where Goyer had some really fucking badass lines that were just completely butchered by whoever was.

Drew:

Did he caw at some point?

Drew:

Was that his reaction in a fight?

Drew:

Was he acted like a girl?

Kyle:

It was when he's killing spider monkey.

Drew:

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Kyle:

That's my favorite fighting in the barrel.

Kyle:

And that's the one where spider monkey instantly recognizes him.

Kyle:

You know, he's killed thousands of people.

Kyle:

We killed you.

Drew:

Yeah.

Kyle:

It's like, you're right.

Kyle:

You did correct.

Kyle:

And I'm all your nightmares rolled into one.

Kyle:

What's next?

Kyle:

We got anything else in the Penn dispenser of dialogue here?

Kyle:

Anything?

Kyle:

So we crow on this one?

Kyle:

Yeah, yeah.

Kyle:

I mean, he looked.

Kyle:

I mean, I like the hair.

Kyle:

The mask was bad.

Kyle:

Like, I just.

Kyle:

There's not.

Kyle:

I just.

Kyle:

Sorry.

Kyle:

I just.

Drew:

Yeah.

Seth:

Why didn't she paint the lips?

Seth:

Why did she paint around the lips?

Kyle:

Mm hmm.

Drew:

Like, had a limited budget for what she had with the stuff.

Kyle:

Yeah, she's running low.

Seth:

Yeah.

Drew:

She didn't want it in case this guy was another dead guy.

Drew:

He wasn't coming back to life.

Kyle:

And it's hard to paint someone's face when you're straddling them for no reason.

Kyle:

It's some kind of, like, actually somewhat like, subconsciously incestuous way.

Drew:

I don't want to have to kiss all this later, so let me put.

Kyle:

Yeah, let me just wrap my legs around you, even though you're kind of.

Seth:

A father figure, but I also don't know you.

Drew:

Yeah.

Kyle:

Do you take cash?

Kyle:

Okay.

Kyle:

All right.

Kyle:

Supporting cast.

Kyle:

And for supporting cast, we got Mia Kirchner as Sarah, who was way too attracted to be Sarah.

Seth:

Yeah.

Kyle:

Richard Brooks is way attracted to be a guy with the last name Earl Iggy Pop.

Kyle:

Who, thank God, they didn't cast him.

Kyle:

Remember the big thing in the first one we got to get Iggy Pop is funboy.

Seth:

Yeah.

Kyle:

Seeing him play curve, I know we're getting into it now, but, like, I'm so.

Kyle:

Michael Massey crushed funboy in the first one.

Kyle:

Thank God.

Kyle:

Would have ruined that movie.

Kyle:

Interesting.

Kyle:

Thomas Jane is Nemo.

Seth:

Yeah.

Kyle:

This is an early Thomas Jane.

Kyle:

He becomes the punisher eventually.

Seth:

Yeah.

Kyle:

Yeah.

Kyle:

And did you know originally.

Kyle:

Originally Thomas Jane was gonna be Rick in the Walking Dead?

Drew:

I didn't know that.

Drew:

Original.

Kyle:

Yep.

Kyle:

Yep.

Kyle:

He's lost a lot of big roles.

Seth:

Yeah.

Kyle:

He's always like, I see him in a lot of us.

Kyle:

Well, Thomas Jane was supposed to be the guy, and then some british guy showed up.

Drew:

He's hustling, man.

Drew:

He's doing all those interviews.

Kyle:

Yeah.

Drew:

Calls or whatever.

Kyle:

Close.

Drew:

Yeah.

Kyle:

I hate to mess up his name.

Kyle:

Ty Trang is Callie.

Kyle:

Which one was it?

Kyle:

Callie.

Kyle:

Callie.

Kyle:

Who was that?

Kyle:

I don't remember that.

Drew:

I don't know.

Kyle:

So forgettable.

Seth:

Yeah.

Kyle:

Vincent Castane.

Kyle:

Castellanos.

Kyle:

God, I'm bad.

Kyle:

I'm sorry.

Kyle:

Castellano.

Kyle:

Sorry.

Kyle:

I'm so bad at this as Spider monkey, but he played spider monkey.

Kyle:

Who cares?

Kyle:

Yeah.

Kyle:

And Ian Dory is Noah.

Kyle:

That's our supporting cast, honestly.

Drew:

Only Sarah.

Drew:

Sarah degree.

Seth:

Everyone else.

Seth:

I forgot.

Kyle:

Yeah, yeah.

Seth:

It just.

Seth:

I mean, Iggy Pop, he was there.

Seth:

He did his thing.

Seth:

Again, this is where I can't necessarily fault the actors, because, again, when every single actor sucks, it's not always the actor's fault.

Seth:

In fact, it's almost never the actor's fault because you can see where the director's influence is coming through.

Drew:

They just all looked like they would have rather, like, not been working than be.

Drew:

Everyone looked miserable during that.

Drew:

Will say, I did think Sarah tried that actress tried to carry the movie.

Seth:

Oh, yeah, she did.

Drew:

She did.

Drew:

So, Sarah, if you're felt like the.

Seth:

Only one who tried, you're the only one that.

Drew:

I'm not saying he crowd you, but we have to be absolute justice.

Drew:

We have to rank them.

Drew:

So I'm gonna give an e crow.

Seth:

E crow.

Drew:

One out of however many that was.

Kyle:

Yeah.

Kyle:

Oh, and I like what you said because no one stands out here.

Seth:

Yeah.

Kyle:

Usually in a movie, like, in a bad movie, you can still say, well, this person did good.

Kyle:

Like, there's.

Kyle:

I could probably, if I thought hard enough.

Kyle:

There's a lot of, like, well, that person's got a future.

Kyle:

Movie sucked.

Kyle:

But I kind of like what that person did.

Kyle:

It's directing.

Kyle:

Cause, you know, there are people here that go on to do other things.

Kyle:

Vincent Perez was apparently a big deal in Europe, which.

Kyle:

I hate it when people say that.

Kyle:

Well, a big deal in Europe.

Kyle:

I don't give a shit.

Kyle:

Yeah, all right.

Kyle:

The euro sucks.

Kyle:

All right.

Kyle:

Have you been to Paris lately?

Kyle:

They don't speak English.

Seth:

They do.

Seth:

They just don't want you to know that.

Drew:

Followed by, like, 20 french fans right there.

Seth:

Yeah, no, good riddance.

Kyle:

I know.

Kyle:

I'm kidding.

Kyle:

I have a racist grandpa.

Kyle:

And he would go to.

Kyle:

He would go to Europe, and he'd come back and be like, how'd you like Europe?

Kyle:

He'd be like, there's a lot of foreigners there.

Kyle:

You mean the people that live in the country that you visited?

Kyle:

Yeah, you're right, grandpa.

Kyle:

They were the foreigners.

Kyle:

Yeah, you were just a bystander.

Drew:

Just be more american.

Drew:

Well, you're in France.

Kyle:

You're kind of in there for them.

Kyle:

Oh, my God.

Kyle:

What an idiot.

Kyle:

Fucking my grandma.

Kyle:

She makes the worst cookie.

Kyle:

Everyone on the podcast knows about how much I hate my grandma.

Kyle:

She's still kicking, though.

Drew:

She's still doing it.

Kyle:

Choke on your cookies, grandma.

Kyle:

They suck.

Kyle:

All right.

Drew:

I probably like them.

Drew:

I'm pretty low cookie standards.

Kyle:

Well, if there's no cookies around and all of a sudden there's cookies, they're like, I'll eat a cookie.

Kyle:

But if you have ten trays of cookies, you're gonna rank them, and hers are gonna be dead last.

Kyle:

Yeah, yeah.

Kyle:

Dead last.

Seth:

So you would take Pillsbury over hers any day?

Kyle:

I thought you were gonna say, take pills.

Kyle:

I'll take pills.

Kyle:

I'll take pills all day long.

Drew:

I thought that too.

Drew:

I was like, you would take some pills?

Seth:

Yep.

Kyle:

Red, blue, green, pink, heart top, whatever you got chewables?

Drew:

Let me stop you there.

Drew:

Yes.

Kyle:

I'll bring over a cat, a liquid cap, and just blah.

Kyle:

You know, it's two to zero.

Kyle:

Eat crow so far, and I didn't see this coming.

Kyle:

No.

Kyle:

Yeah, this masterpiece, this stunning.

Kyle:

This stunning creation.

Kyle:

Poetic killings.

Kyle:

So last time we ranked, you know, the creative.

Kyle:

They were so creative.

Kyle:

The killings is very, you know, important to this franchise.

Kyle:

What do you guys think about the.

Kyle:

The slangs here?

Drew:

They either.

Drew:

They tried to copy from the first one and just didn't do it as well.

Drew:

Or the only decent killing was Iggy Pop.

Drew:

That was.

Drew:

Or, I mean, I don't know, the last one where they.

Drew:

Death by crow.

Drew:

That was so bad.

Drew:

But I'm gonna.

Drew:

I'll still give it an eight crow.

Drew:

I thought about being nice.

Drew:

Cause I was like, there's two good.

Seth:

Ones, but no, we're gonna rip the shit out of this movie.

Seth:

Eat crow.

Seth:

It's so bad.

Kyle:

This is the one category where I was like, I wanted to give it some grace, but I can't.

Kyle:

And the one is curve.

Kyle:

Like, yeah, that was the most creative, cool one.

Kyle:

But that explosion should have, like, left him disembodied.

Kyle:

Like, there should have been limbs.

Kyle:

He's got a little bit of blood, and then he floats him out into the water, and he's got the.

Kyle:

It's amazing in this movie, too, how everything randomly turns into the shape of a crow.

Seth:

Yeah.

Drew:

Yeah.

Drew:

You know, I love that seems to be the thing in all the movies.

Drew:

It was weird.

Drew:

It was the worst weird the first time in the first movie, but now, like, if I don't see a crow after a death, I'm like, well, he's mission not accomplished, no matter how weird it is.

Drew:

Get back out there and sketch it.

Kyle:

Yeah.

Seth:

One person's just throwing the flowers, and they just come into the shape of a crowd.

Drew:

They just witness to crime, and they're just like, this is.

Drew:

Let's honor this.

Kyle:

Yeah.

Kyle:

And you're a filmmaker.

Kyle:

You're a filmmaker.

Kyle:

How much b roll of those people throwing, like, do we got two minutes of b roll of them?

Kyle:

It feels like.

Seth:

Oh, no, I'll bet you.

Seth:

I'll bet you just.

Seth:

Of that person throwing the flowers.

Seth:

The.

Seth:

The b roll is as long as Ben Hur.

Drew:

This is the good part.

Drew:

Let me make sure it's.

Drew:

This is where.

Drew:

This is where we really get the characterization.

Kyle:

This is the funny.

Kyle:

This is the guy you wanted.

Kyle:

This is Iggy Pop, the guy that you wanted so bad in the first one.

Kyle:

He's dead.

Kyle:

He just died.

Kyle:

And it was the only semi creative killing in a movie.

Kyle:

He's floating in the river, but you're looking at the people just throwing flowers.

Kyle:

Like, show icky pop.

Drew:

Yeah.

Drew:

No, also, like, why did they make that such a big deal?

Drew:

Like, I seriously looked at the times that I was watching.

Drew:

I was like, is this the end of the movie?

Drew:

Like, is this the.

Kyle:

Yeah.

Seth:

And I thought that four times throughout the movie.

Seth:

I was like, this is the end.

Seth:

There's 30 minutes left.

Kyle:

Yeah.

Kyle:

I hate that feeling.

Kyle:

Yeah, you're like, oh, I thought this was almost over.

Drew:

I would have been cool with any in 20 minutes.

Kyle:

And then you check out and you're like, I got to do a podcast on this.

Kyle:

I got to be interested in.

Seth:

Remember something.

Drew:

Also something fun about shitting on bad movies, though.

Drew:

I think that's the.

Drew:

Is something enjoyable when you're just like, yeah.

Drew:

Why?

Kyle:

Well, especially when it's tail ending, like the death of Brandon Lee and the cult nature of it.

Kyle:

And this is what we got.

Kyle:

Yeah, I will say, too, this reminded me of something that was in my notes.

Kyle:

This is really important to me, actually.

Kyle:

In the first one, we talked about how, like, you know, Alex Proyas was concerned that the story wasn't complex enough.

Kyle:

Like in Brandon Lee filled in.

Kyle:

He said he filled in all the gaps.

Seth:

Yeah.

Kyle:

His acting, his physicality, his poetry, the way he acted.

Kyle:

You see here now how without that prominence, this story suffers.

Kyle:

Vincent Perez is not physical.

Seth:

No.

Kyle:

His martial arts are very limited.

Kyle:

I mean, freaking Brandon Lee grew up being trained by his father, the greatest.

Seth:

Martial artist on film ever, who invented his own style.

Kyle:

And he was so, and he was so physical, and he used his body not just to fight, but to move and to jump and, like, everything was kind of poetic in the way he operated.

Drew:

There's none of that here until you're right.

Drew:

You see, you see in the absence, when it's not there, you see how significant it was in the first movie.

Drew:

When he's in the second movie, when.

Kyle:

You'Re like, it's not there, you're like, is something happening?

Kyle:

He's gonna kill this guy.

Kyle:

Okay.

Seth:

The first movie took a very less is more approach.

Seth:

The second movie was just like, no, no, no.

Seth:

Everyone who's watching this is a moron.

Seth:

Let's tell them what's happening.

Kyle:

Exposition galore.

Drew:

The first one was like, less is more.

Drew:

The second was like, nothing.

Kyle:

Yeah, yeah.

Kyle:

Enjoy.

Kyle:

Enjoy this.

Kyle:

All right, three to zero.

Kyle:

We are eating lots of crow.

Kyle:

I'm getting full, actually.

Kyle:

The mask.

Kyle:

So this is not just the mask.

Kyle:

The attire, the.

Kyle:

The paint, the everyone's get up, the style.

Seth:

Awful.

Seth:

It was again, like in.

Seth:

In the first movie, everything felt so natural and lived in as if, like.

Seth:

Like people had been living on the streets for ten straight years, and they had three sets of clothes, and this was this week's.

Seth:

They got one more for next week and then another one for the next week, and then they started all over again.

Seth:

This literally was just like, okay, this guy needs clothes.

Seth:

Here's some clothes.

Seth:

Put those on you.

Seth:

You need a toga.

Seth:

Like, we're going to give you a tunic toga, whatever the fuck this is.

Seth:

We want you to be mystical, but we're not going to give you any reason.

Seth:

Reason why this should make sense.

Drew:

Yeah, well, his name's Jonah Earl.

Drew:

He do whatever he wants.

Kyle:

Yeah.

Kyle:

Except wear flannel and do chew.

Seth:

Yeah.

Drew:

So.

Drew:

Okay, so.

Drew:

But are we saying it's terrible because the first one was so good and it's like we're comparing it to it or, like, does this one have a big budget or a bigger budget than the first one is there?

Drew:

Were they saving money on so they could pay their amazing actors?

Drew:

Like, were they like.

Drew:

Cause I don't know.

Drew:

Like, I feel like they try.

Drew:

They tried to stay in the same scheme, and I almost inclined to be like, it's fine for what it was.

Kyle:

Yeah.

Drew:

You know, I'm almost inclined to give that one a.

Drew:

Let it.

Drew:

Let it cruise on by.

Drew:

Let it fly.

Drew:

Let the crow fly.

Drew:

Because, like, they tried to stay with the same.

Kyle:

Yeah, you might be right in it.

Drew:

I mean, honestly.

Seth:

We'll get to it.

Drew:

Will the first one, when we talk about.

Drew:

I already know for the next one, like, I'm gonna not let it slide.

Drew:

Yeah, but on the map.

Drew:

But for this one.

Drew:

Okay.

Drew:

I'm gonna give it to them because, like, was it as good as the first one?

Drew:

No, clothing wise, but, like, it was definitely inspired.

Drew:

Like, they were still.

Drew:

I mean, it looked like it was the Kmart crow, honestly.

Seth:

Like, yeah, I don't know.

Seth:

I.

Drew:

Who stamps crow?

Seth:

I can't.

Seth:

I can't give it.

Seth:

I can't give it any props.

Seth:

It was.

Seth:

It was not good.

Seth:

I'm saying eat crow on this one.

Drew:

That's okay.

Kyle:

Yeah, I think.

Kyle:

I think we know.

Kyle:

We know so much about how the first one was.

Kyle:

The fact that Brandon Lee controlled his own attire and control the mask and the fact that it looks so cool and that.

Kyle:

That he knew that gradually it would have to wear down.

Kyle:

But also, he made it perpetually more cool looking and more lived in.

Kyle:

And I do think that the attire that all the villains wore in the first one kind of matched.

Kyle:

Again, they were very natural.

Kyle:

We talked about how they look like they grew out of the ground, out of this shitty city.

Kyle:

I don't think it's necessarily that all the villains are bad.

Kyle:

Like, they don't stick out, but it's.

Kyle:

When you get to Jonah.

Seth:

Yeah.

Kyle:

Honestly, it just makes zero sense to me and Sybil.

Seth:

None whatsoever.

Seth:

Yeah.

Kyle:

His.

Kyle:

His.

Kyle:

What do they call her?

Kyle:

She's an oracle.

Kyle:

Yeah.

Kyle:

She literally looks like resident evil four.

Drew:

I kept waiting for it because she had that whole.

Drew:

The hood over the whole.

Drew:

I kept waiting her to pull it back and be the one eyed lady from before.

Drew:

And then she would have been like, I've dealt with this before.

Drew:

Here's what you have to do.

Seth:

Yeah.

Drew:

And I was like, look at them.

Drew:

Tying the two movies with the same name.

Kyle:

Yeah.

Kyle:

So we wouldn't eat crow.

Kyle:

But you did try to.

Drew:

I'm gonna give.

Kyle:

Yeah.

Drew:

I'm gonna let her fly.

Kyle:

Okay.

Kyle:

Well, it's.

Kyle:

It's close.

Kyle:

Like, we do have to give it a neat crow, but we.

Kyle:

I do appreciate your positivity there.

Kyle:

It is admirable.

Seth:

You tried.

Kyle:

How good are these bad guys, huh?

Seth:

No.

Kyle:

Yeah, I'll start.

Kyle:

Forgettable.

Seth:

Yeah.

Kyle:

Spider monkey.

Kyle:

The fact that.

Kyle:

Right.

Kyle:

And we killed you, and he's just like.

Kyle:

It's just everything the.

Kyle:

They are.

Kyle:

There's a lot of expositions.

Kyle:

They depend a lot on dialogue here.

Kyle:

The flashbacks are really bad.

Kyle:

Whereas before, they were kind of like a flavor here.

Kyle:

They're trying to force dialogue on you and force information on you with the killings or what happened.

Kyle:

I just.

Kyle:

None of them make sense to me.

Kyle:

I just.

Kyle:

I don't know.

Kyle:

Jonah, again, I just don't understand.

Kyle:

Why was he.

Kyle:

That character, like, that?

Drew:

I would have liked to have more of him so I could understand.

Seth:

Exactly.

Drew:

I feel like he was the one that was like, oh, there's something here now.

Seth:

Now I'm curious to see the full two and a half hour cut.

Kyle:

Yeah.

Seth:

Cause again, I just.

Seth:

I kept feeling like there was inklings of a good movie in this.

Kyle:

Yeah.

Kyle:

Cause, like, there's a flashback when he's in the car and he's wearing a suit.

Kyle:

Like, he's wearing an actual.

Kyle:

And it makes you think at one point, he wasn't wearing a tunica and doing mystical, like, oracle things.

Seth:

Yeah.

Kyle:

But it's just.

Kyle:

Without that context, he's just weird.

Seth:

And it's just like it doesn't belong in this world that both of the movies have tried to create.

Kyle:

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Kyle:

And talk.

Kyle:

I don't know why top dollar was so compelling.

Kyle:

I try to.

Kyle:

I was thinking about this for this category I was trying to nail down.

Kyle:

Why top dollar?

Kyle:

Like, I just think because he was just.

Kyle:

He was just so.

Kyle:

He just took.

Kyle:

You chewed up a lot of scenery.

Kyle:

Yeah.

Seth:

Fit.

Seth:

Like, he.

Seth:

He fit the aesthetic.

Seth:

They weren't trying to make him something that.

Seth:

That didn't belong.

Seth:

There was no magic to him.

Seth:

Even from the beginning, he had his magical person in his version of the aura, like.

Seth:

But.

Seth:

But there was no mystery for him.

Seth:

He was a mob boss.

Seth:

He was doing his thing, and he had someone to help him.

Seth:

But in this one, it's like, no, we're gonna try to make him some sort of mystical creature.

Kyle:

Yeah.

Drew:

I feel like with top dollar, there was enough little things in the beginning scenes and the dialogues or with the actions, even the way he talks to his people, the.

Drew:

I mean, how he treats the ladies around him, like, oh, there was enough things where you're like, I get that he's a villain.

Seth:

Yeah.

Drew:

And then, so by the time he died, in such a gruesome way, you're like, yes.

Drew:

That vile man died with Jonah.

Drew:

We were like, man, what's going on here?

Drew:

We don't know.

Drew:

I know I'm not supposed to like you, but I don't understand you.

Drew:

I want to be able to understand why I don't like you.

Drew:

But when he got the crow powers, I was like, that's cool, but we could have used this earlier.

Seth:

Seriously.

Seth:

And then at the end, when he's just literally stabbed onto this pole, and he's like, oh, I'm not dying.

Seth:

And then the crows just fly through him.

Seth:

I'm like, where the fuck was this?

Drew:

Where these crows been?

Seth:

Like, seriously?

Drew:

Yeah, they let their fret.

Drew:

Well, I guess they.

Drew:

Maybe they knew that crow was faking it.

Kyle:

Yeah.

Kyle:

And there's so many movies that that formula works like hell.

Kyle:

Even, like, the nineties ninja Turtles, when splinter gets, like, even that work.

Kyle:

Like, they made use of that.

Kyle:

Like, all sudden, he was super shredder.

Kyle:

And, like, that was awesome.

Kyle:

Like, remember that?

Drew:

Like, yeah, that was a great.

Kyle:

That's.

Kyle:

That's usually, like a cash in for movies whenever the villain or the bad guy gets.

Kyle:

Yeah, the power.

Kyle:

That's the good power.

Kyle:

And also, they have it.

Kyle:

Like, usually they cash in on it, but here you're just like.

Kyle:

He's like, oh, no, here he comes.

Kyle:

Yeah.

Kyle:

All the crows.

Seth:

Yeah.

Kyle:

CGI him to death.

Kyle:

Yeah, whatever happened there.

Kyle:

Yeah.

Kyle:

And was that because they didn't have enough money?

Kyle:

It would have been cooler if he was torn to shreds and bloody, but instead, he turns into a ray of light even though he was never dead.

Seth:

Yeah.

Drew:

So they took them to Crow heaven.

Drew:

Crowell.

Drew:

I don't know.

Seth:

Crow.

Seth:

Perfect.

Drew:

Crowbar.

Kyle:

Yeah, there you go.

Drew:

Was the category of the villains.

Drew:

Yeah.

Drew:

These ones were.

Drew:

These ones forgettable and honestly, carbon copies of the first one.

Drew:

Yeah.

Kyle:

Just worse versions with worse names.

Seth:

Yeah.

Kyle:

Spider monkey.

Kyle:

The minute I heard his name was Spider Monkey, I was like, it is in my mouth.

Kyle:

It was so bad.

Kyle:

All right, we're eating crow here.

Kyle:

It's basically, we got to get to these categories, but this is a losing battle here.

Seth:

Absolutely.

Drew:

There's one watcher who's like, are you kidding me?

Drew:

Are they blind?

Kyle:

Spider monkey is my God.

Drew:

I have spider monkey tattooed on my bald.

Kyle:

I've got a whole poster on my wall of spider monkey.

Kyle:

He can't walk in my country without getting mugged.

Seth:

My desktop background is a collage of spider monkey.

Kyle:

God, that's.

Kyle:

Now that you say there's, like, there is, like, one person.

Seth:

Yeah.

Kyle:

Like, there's one of everything, right?

Seth:

They'll find us.

Drew:

Someone's like, I lost my virginity.

Kyle:

That.

Drew:

Man, I don't know why there's so many.

Kyle:

I named my penis Spider monkey.

Kyle:

It's got dreadlocks.

Kyle:

It's getting wild.

Kyle:

The shitty city war.

Kyle:

What do we think about this setting again?

Seth:

Just nothing unique.

Seth:

The first movie.

Seth:

From the moment the camera turns on, you're transported to a different world.

Seth:

This just felt like somehow an even shittier version of LA, which I didn't know that was possible.

Drew:

Yeah, it didn't do much.

Drew:

I mean, it was.

Drew:

It was clear it was a lower budget than the first movie.

Drew:

I sometimes think that should be some grace, but, like, some of the really cool things they did, a lot of the really cool things they did in the first one, they were like, let's not do that.

Drew:

Yeah, I'll give it.

Drew:

I'll give it.

Drew:

Eating crow.

Seth:

Yeah.

Kyle:

This was literally the only one I gave the crow flies thus far.

Kyle:

And the reason was, is I.

Kyle:

It was the.

Kyle:

To me, it was the only redeeming thing, and it was not as good as the first.

Seth:

Yeah.

Kyle:

But to me, it was the camera work and how it intermingled.

Kyle:

Like, the motorcycle scene.

Kyle:

I did like the haze, the music video feel, and those were the.

Kyle:

The bright moments.

Kyle:

What?

Kyle:

And I did like the way even though the crowd was weird, some of the people were obviously not used to raving in a crowd.

Kyle:

I did like how it looked when he was climbing.

Kyle:

And, like, this movie has good visuals.

Kyle:

Like, if you take the.

Kyle:

The dialogue out, there are picturesque moments where it's like, oh, that's a cool image.

Seth:

Yeah, absolutely.

Drew:

I'm gonna.

Drew:

Can I change my.

Kyle:

You can change.

Kyle:

Because that happens all the time.

Drew:

I'm doing whatever you want.

Kyle:

You guys almost made me change last week.

Drew:

So I'm thinking now about him coming back from the dead.

Drew:

I'm thinking about the parade scene and even the ending fights and the different kind of the different tone of the parade versus the rest of the.

Drew:

I'm gonna give, I'm gonna get.

Drew:

Let it.

Drew:

I'm gonna let it fly on that one.

Kyle:

Yeah, yeah.

Kyle:

No, it happens that on movie wars 1.0, that happened all the time.

Kyle:

I would change at least once every couple episodes, and we'll change.

Seth:

Sticking to my guns.

Kyle:

I like it.

Kyle:

I dig it.

Kyle:

I dig it.

Kyle:

No, I get it, man.

Seth:

Camera work doesn't save everything else.

Kyle:

It's true.

Seth:

And I've been involved in enough student productions to know that that's the case.

Seth:

Yeah, I.

Seth:

Back in college, there was a guy who spent.

Seth:

If I remember correctly, someone said he spent 30 grand on his senior film.

Seth:

And it was one of the most God awful movies I've ever seen.

Seth:

He had a really nice camera, cinematographer.

Seth:

Knew what he was doing.

Seth:

And he paid out the ass for antique cars.

Seth:

Cause it was a world war two set film.

Seth:

Those were the only redeeming qualities.

Seth:

Writing terrible, acting terrible.

Seth:

Literally, during one scene, they filmed in a gym.

Seth:

You could hear the.

Kyle:

Yeah.

Seth:

Of the gym lights the entire way through.

Seth:

And even when they asked me to come in and fix the audio for it, I could not.

Seth:

It was so bad, I could not notch it out all the way.

Kyle:

Come on, izotope.

Seth:

Yeah, this was before Izotope was even doing that.

Seth:

I was in premiere trying to find the frequency, and it just.

Drew:

Yeah, and then you had the Patreon for this.

Drew:

Yeah, he's our biggest supporter.

Kyle:

Yeah, Cliff actually made millions off that, by the way.

Kyle:

That's cause his dad works for Citibank.

Drew:

I really was hoping, I knew it wasn't the end of the story, but I was like, I was hoping you'd be like, hi, my name's Seth.

Drew:

I'm that guy.

Drew:

And I've learned to be better.

Kyle:

Or then I killed him with.

Kyle:

I took a gym light and shoved up his ass.

Kyle:

He's dead now.

Kyle:

Fuck you, Cliff and Citibank.

Kyle:

No, you're right.

Kyle:

And then you see some jerk with a handheld that just makes a masterpiece with five grand.

Seth:

I mean, you like, text BTS videos of, like, the dude diving through two car windows with a camera in slow motion.

Seth:

It's just like, why can't we get that guy?

Kyle:

Yeah, yeah, it's.

Kyle:

You can't, you know, I mean, I remember meeting Belmont kids, and I'm sorry, I'm not saying all Belmont kids are like this, but when I move here to play guitar and someone told me they're spending all this money on Belmont, and then I go in the studio with them or do a gig.

Kyle:

I'd be like, you paid to do that.

Kyle:

Like, I learned that when I was, like, ten.

Kyle:

On accident.

Kyle:

I accidentally learned that Jimi Hendrix songs when I was ten.

Seth:

Don't make fun of my alma mater.

Kyle:

I'm sorry, but you know it's true.

Seth:

Oh, I do.

Kyle:

Kids with rich parents.

Kyle:

Like, I'm gonna learn how to play guitar for $60.

Seth:

Are you just trying to cut me to the quick right now?

Seth:

Audio engineering.

Drew:

Homeschooled.

Kyle:

Hey.

Kyle:

Hey.

Kyle:

I homeschooled my kids for two years.

Seth:

Oh, man.

Seth:

I'm so sorry for them.

Kyle:

I couldn't hack it.

Kyle:

Neither could they.

Kyle:

I didn't know this.

Kyle:

This is awesome.

Kyle:

Way to learn about on the fly.

Kyle:

I feel so bad.

Kyle:

Can you forgive me?

Kyle:

I'm sorry.

Seth:

Never.

Drew:

No.

Kyle:

I love you.

Kyle:

I love you, Belmont.

Kyle:

I'll cut you a check.

Kyle:

Never.

Kyle:

All right.

Kyle:

Well, hey, I like it.

Kyle:

We had a convert.

Drew:

We had.

Drew:

Yeah, there we go.

Kyle:

We should do, like, in Mad Max free or whatever.

Kyle:

That was just a witness.

Seth:

So did that one end up flying?

Kyle:

Yeah, that flew.

Seth:

Damn.

Seth:

We got one point.

Seth:

I thought we were gonna get a queen sweep, but now I know it's.

Kyle:

Bad, but it's not the worst thing ever.

Kyle:

I've seen.

Kyle:

I have seen worse.

Kyle:

Not much worse, but I have seen worse.

Kyle:

I mean, Wicker man will always exist.

Kyle:

The remake.

Kyle:

So.

Kyle:

Okay, last category, revenge served.

Kyle:

Awesome.

Kyle:

Did the punishment fit the crime?

Kyle:

Do we like how we it.

Seth:

Again, nothing was memorable that the.

Seth:

Especially the way that it all just ended.

Seth:

Like, at least with the way the first one ended, you.

Seth:

You knew that Eric was kind of going back into the grave and was fully giving up.

Seth:

The second one just ended.

Seth:

Like, there was no resolution to any of the characters other than this guy.

Seth:

I died.

Drew:

I feel like, though, this is a weird thing to not say the punishment fit the crime, because if I say eat crow, I'm basically saying, like, yeah, that guy who lost his child in his life, he kind of overreacted.

Kyle:

He kind of overdid a little bit.

Drew:

He needed to calm down a little bit.

Drew:

But the alternative is, like, yes, sending a mass of supernatural crows to completely obliterate and absorb or take to a different dimension.

Drew:

This main villain.

Kyle:

Transition joke.

Kyle:

I like that.

Drew:

Yeah.

Drew:

So I don't know.

Kyle:

I feel like you're like, at least he did something.

Drew:

He got the job done, you know?

Drew:

Like, he did.

Drew:

He did what.

Drew:

He did what the crow told him to do.

Drew:

The crows were satisfied.

Drew:

They even jumped in to help him out.

Kyle:

They got their friends.

Seth:

Yeah.

Drew:

No justice served.

Kyle:

Okay, good.

Drew:

That one at the end.

Seth:

Sure.

Kyle:

But you can't do it so bad.

Kyle:

Yeah, I actually did go eat crow here.

Kyle:

And the reason is, is I keep thinking about how.

Kyle:

What?

Kyle:

You made a great comment during the 94 that the flashbacks were such a nice.

Kyle:

Usually they're a crutch, but in this situation, they were very.

Kyle:

They were a very simple way to help move the story.

Kyle:

They're.

Kyle:

They're trying to use flashbacks here because it's copy and paste, but they are hard to watch, especially the villains in the flash.

Kyle:

But, oh, my gosh, there's a witness.

Kyle:

You know, like, I hate that.

Seth:

Like, it's like too much exposition in them, as opposed in the first one.

Seth:

The reason the flashbacks worked so well is because they were very tasteful in the information they gave you.

Seth:

And when they gave you that information in this one, it literally was like, he's awake.

Seth:

Okay, what's going on?

Seth:

I'm going to touch this thing.

Seth:

Oh, here's the entire story of how I got here.

Drew:

They should have just like seven times.

Drew:

Yeah.

Kyle:

They should have just had an icky pop.

Kyle:

Willie, walk up to the camera and break down the fourth wall.

Kyle:

Okay, here's what happened.

Kyle:

A guy in kid just saw us kill a person, and we got to do something about it, so we killed him.

Kyle:

We're going to go over here.

Kyle:

There's a dog.

Seth:

Yeah.

Kyle:

Conveniently placed.

Kyle:

We're going to go get some chicken wire.

Kyle:

We're a time.

Seth:

Literally.

Kyle:

What it felt like there were some in.

Kyle:

There were a lot of flashbacks in the first one.

Kyle:

Didn't even have dialogue.

Seth:

No, no, they shouldn't have.

Drew:

Yeah, I was watching, like, wait, what?

Drew:

Yeah, but then, like, I was.

Drew:

Then you would watch the rest of the movie and it would answer the questions you had exactly back, which was good.

Drew:

Writing this.

Seth:

This sparked a question and then immediately was like, here's the answer.

Seth:

Yeah, you don't need to worry about this.

Seth:

Here's the answer.

Kyle:

And it's sad to know that after you find out about all the cutting they did.

Kyle:

Like, they're hand holding us because they.

Kyle:

They knew they told a bad story.

Seth:

Yeah.

Kyle:

And they didn't know what else to do.

Kyle:

And they couldn't do it visually because they didn't have the acting power.

Kyle:

They didn't have David Patrick Kelly.

Kyle:

They didn't have Tony Todd.

Kyle:

You know, they didn't have.

Kyle:

I'm trying to think some of the other fantastic.

Kyle:

Or they didn't have Michael Massey.

Kyle:

Like, yeah, they had this surplus of acting talent.

Kyle:

They don't have the talent to deliver a nonverbal story here.

Kyle:

Oh, this one ate some pretty bad crows, six to one.

Kyle:

Yeah, I think it.

Kyle:

I think it didn't do well here.

Seth:

In movie worlds, as it should not.

Drew:

What if we were like, this is the.

Drew:

Like, what if we were like, we got a full six.

Kyle:

Just surprise people.

Kyle:

What if we just surprised people like, this is wonderful.

Drew:

This is great.

Seth:

I can't wait for April Fool's Day.

Kyle:

Yeah, that would be fun.

Seth:

We take the room and we sit there, and we talk about how it's the greatest movie ever made, the fact.

Kyle:

That Perez didn't get nominated for this.

Kyle:

You know, he should have been Batman in the Nolan movies.

Kyle:

You know that, right?

Drew:

You know that this one doesn't.

Drew:

This movie does not deserve crows flying for it.

Drew:

No, the crow are upset with this movie.

Kyle:

Yeah.

Seth:

Like, even they were like, this needs to be done.

Seth:

And that's why they just nonsensically carried the guy away.

Drew:

They weren't carrying the guy away.

Drew:

They were leaving.

Drew:

They were like, he can't even be in this fictional world.

Kyle:

And I just had this thought, yes, it was his son who was killed, but, like, they never do a good job making you feel connected to the son.

Seth:

No.

Drew:

Yeah, he's kind of a mystery scene.

Drew:

They have one scene at the beginning, which, I don't know, it was really like, that was actually a pretty good scene where they're talking, and then he hears a noise, and it's like, oh, let me go.

Drew:

But the dad knows this is a terrible city.

Drew:

Don't go out anywhere without the kid's like, oh, nothing bad ever happens in life.

Drew:

Let me go check out what's going on.

Drew:

And then he gets murdered, and you're like, well, bummer.

Kyle:

There's just smog everywhere.

Drew:

Yeah, maybe the kid should have come back as the crowd.

Drew:

That would have been interesting.

Kyle:

Yeah.

Kyle:

And I just.

Kyle:

I feel like.

Kyle:

Like Sarah now we get a lot of Sarah in the first one because she's one of the main characters.

Kyle:

But I just, like.

Kyle:

I hate to say this is mean, but, like, I just did not give a shit about that kid.

Seth:

No, no, not at all.

Drew:

Well, I kind of forget about the kid, which then makes you not give a shit about ash.

Drew:

That's the thing.

Drew:

Like, you, there is a kid, and you're like, oh, yeah, that's why he's doing all this.

Drew:

But, like, the whole time you're watching, I just.

Drew:

Yeah, it's.

Drew:

I felt like I was just observing a stranger at an airport for a little bit, and I was like, well, I'll go get a bagel.

Kyle:

Looks like he's gonna get the Tootsie rolls.

Kyle:

o for people because it's the:

Drew:

That's why Sarah would have been so much of a better choice, because we had a whole first movie to learn to care about her.

Kyle:

Yeah.

Seth:

But again, I did not know until we started this podcast today that that was Sarah.

Drew:

They had the same white cat in his old apartment that she was luring dead people to.

Seth:

Yeah.

Drew:

See if they'd resurrect so that she could clothe them and.

Seth:

But, like, that's how bad of a job they did at letting us know who the characters were that I.

Seth:

Yeah, if you had not said this was Sarah, I would have been like, this is just a random ass lady.

Drew:

They did such a bad job that I at first thought it was Sarah, and then by the end of the movie, was convinced it wasn't until we talked about it.

Kyle:

And it's not just us.

Kyle:

I cuz I one way I study research that sometimes I'll listen to other podcasts and, like, there are other really smart movie podcast people that said the same exact thing that they had no idea.

Kyle:

And these are, like, brilliant people that I admire in the industry.

Drew:

Like, not like these slugs that you're.

Kyle:

In, the movie wars.

Kyle:

He didn't know it was him.

Seth:

Not that much of an idiot, I guess.

Kyle:

And I think a good way to a good closing thought for this, I guess a good closing question then, based on everything we just said, is how much of this is the fact that they went after this thing two years after Brandon Lee died?

Seth:

Yeah.

Kyle:

Fans are passionate about this.

Kyle:

Fans are still.

Kyle:

We found this out last week.

Seth:

Yeah.

Kyle:

Fans are still die hard passionate over this.

Kyle:

The reboot showed that.

Seth:

Yeah.

Kyle:

Imagine being two years removed.

Kyle:

I mean, how much of that is kind of rain?

Kyle:

Like, how, like, how good did this movie have to be to win their.

Kyle:

Their hearts?

Seth:

It's literally like trying to make misses.

Seth:

Doubtfire two in:

Seth:

It just would have been a horrible decision.

Kyle:

Yeah.

Kyle:

Like going out and get some random comedian and it's not Robin Williams, and Robin Williams is dead.

Kyle:

Died tragically.

Kyle:

And I can see that.

Kyle:

Yeah.

Seth:

And then you just come in with Jared Leto and it's like, why?

Seth:

What are we doing here?

Drew:

Yeah, I felt like, yeah, there's nothing.

Drew:

There was nothing about the sequel that needed to happen.

Drew:

Yeah, they didn't need to.

Drew:

They didn't.

Drew:

Like, it was not because.

Drew:

Because you read online that they say that, like, oh, we're gonna do it.

Drew:

In a respectful way that honors the previous movie and Brandon Lee.

Drew:

Well, if they tried to do that, they failed.

Drew:

Yeah, I'm telling myself that they just didn't mean what they were saying.

Drew:

Cause somehow to me, that gives them more respect.

Drew:

Or like, you know, after my honest opinion, knowing that there were so many movies after the first one, I was like, first one didn't need a sequel.

Seth:

It genuinely could have ended with that first one, and it would have been a perfect cult classic movie.

Kyle:

Yeah.

Kyle:

And I'm covering the Mad Max series with Matthew Blevins.

Kyle:

And one thing that they Miller talks about is that it's intentional, that each movie feels like a campfire retelling, which is why they're not necessarily like, you never really know the chronology.

Kyle:

A lot of people have kind of mapped it out, but you really don't know.

Kyle:

And that's why Max is kind of different in each movie, too, because it's almost like there's a person at a campfire telling the mystical story of.

Kyle:

Yeah, and.

Kyle:

And they'd really do a good job orchestrating that in the Mad Max series.

Kyle:

But here, like this as just a random entry tree.

Kyle:

Yeah.

Kyle:

It's supposed to be eight years after the first one.

Kyle:

Technically.

Kyle:

It's like, you don't know.

Kyle:

Yeah, it's like this did not have what?

Drew:

Yeah, and at least with the next one, when we talk about it, like, yeah, next week.

Drew:

Check us out.

Drew:

At least it follows, like, the crow storyline.

Drew:

Like it's a new story but with, like, the same elements.

Drew:

Like, it's in the same.

Drew:

Last week, what you said I thought was really cool is like, when you watch a movie right from the beginning, you realize I like the rules of the universe, right?

Seth:

Yeah.

Drew:

And so, like, at least with the second art, the third one, it fits in the rules of the universe.

Drew:

This one, it honestly felt like we just, like, found a couple guys at Walmart and like, let's.

Drew:

Let's just, you know, throw together a quick crow reboot.

Drew:

Yeah, I felt like the reboot, that hasn't happened yet, right?

Drew:

Yeah.

Kyle:

Well, this has been awesome, man.

Kyle:

And before we sign off, you said you had, you have some shows.

Drew:

Yeah.

Drew:

If.

Drew:

If anyone's in the Nashville area, the Franklin area, this Thursday, I have a new show at the Buganope pig in Franklin.

Drew:

It will be every Thursday at:

Drew:

n East Nashville, which is at:

Drew:

and if you want to check out more information on any of that, just go to Drew Davis comedy on literally anything and you'll find where I put show information.

Kyle:

Beautiful.

Seth:

November 4, I got a show over in twelve south in Nashville at Marine Lair.

Seth:

So you'll come out.

Kyle:

Beautiful.

Kyle:

Thank you for hanging out.

Kyle:

Next week we're going to do the crow salvation.

Seth:

And shockingly, I have better things to say about that movie.

Drew:

Come back next week.

Drew:

We'll be nicer.

Kyle:

Yeah, it's interesting.

Kyle:

Yeah, it's, it's funny watching these all in succession because I had seen them all over the course of time, but now, like, doing it for the podcast, it's like, it's, it's interesting.

Seth:

Yeah.

Kyle:

So.

Kyle:

But we'll be seeing you, sugarplum.

Kyle:

Love, y'all.

Kyle:

I'm Kyle.

Seth:

Seth.

Drew:

Drew.

Kyle:

See you.

Kyle:

Movie wars.

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Movie Wars
A panel of standup comedians deliver deeply researched and thoughtful film analysis.
A panel of stand-up comedians blends humor with deep film analysis, using their unique ‘War Card’ system to grade movies across key categories. Each episode delivers thoughtful insights and spirited debate, offering a fresh, comedic take on film critique. New episode every Thursday!
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Kyle Castro