The Babadook with comedian Marianna Barksdale

Seth: 00:00:00

Foreign.

Kyle: 00:00:12

Ladies and gentlemen, welcome back to the Movie wars podcast Season finale.

Seth: 00:00:17

Movie Wars Podcast. Give it up for the end of season one, everybody. Woohoo.

Kyle: 00:00:21

It was long. Marianne is here.

Seth: 00:00:24

Yes, she's back. I'm Seth. We got Kyle and we're gonna have.

Kyle: 00:00:27

A little announcement at the end, so make sure you chill.

Seth: 00:00:29

We are. You gotta stay till the very end for a very big announcement that's going to change the future of movies.

Kyle: 00:00:35

Change the baba. Do change. As a reminder, the show goes as this. We have a little bit of film history.

We're going to do the randos, which are the most interesting things about how the movie was made. Then we're going to do the questions. Questions are like funny slash serious questions used to generate banter.

Lastly, we close out with our War Zone, which is like the Rapid Fire 4 categories. This is yes or no.

Seth: 00:00:58

Yeah.

Kyle: 00:00:58

Does that sound good? And we're talking about the baba. I just like saying I had never.

Seth: 00:01:06

Creepy little movie.

Kyle: 00:01:07

Creepy. Yeah. I have a lot of. It's funny. I watched it and kind of like was on a roller coaster afterwards about what I thought. Yeah, I had never seen it.

And I had.

Seth: 00:01:14

I didn't either. I suggested this because I have heard nothing but good things but had never seen it.

Even like when it came out, which is when I would have been really into these kind of movies, it was.

Kyle: 00:01:23

Really easy just to look at the COVID and read what it was about and think that maybe it was part of the Conjuring franchise or maybe that it was part of like any of these really, like overblown paranormal.

Seth: 00:01:34

Yeah.

Kyle: 00:01:34

Or Annabelle.

Seth: 00:01:36

Oh yeah.

Kyle: 00:01:36

You know, I was like, is it one of those? Is it part of one of those?

Seth: 00:01:38

at I would consider to be the: 2010

But the: 2000

Kyle: 00:02:10

Yeah.

And even the first Omen, I mean, the first Omen had, you know, locations in like Copenhagen and it had all these different locations, but for the most part it takes place at the mansion.

Seth: 00:02:19

Yeah.

Kyle: 00:02:19

The family. And like it was horrifying because like you're. You think this kid's the devil.

Seth: 00:02:23

Yeah.

Kyle: 00:02:24

But he doesn't have horns. He's a little kid. And so like the whole time you're like, what the hell's happening here? And then at the end you're like, holy shit.

Seth: 00:02:30

Yeah.

Kyle: 00:02:31

But what does our resident horror expert think here?

Marianna: 00:02:33

Oh, I love the Babadook. I've, I've watched it before. It's one of my, it's been one of my favorites.

Although I will say I have this like list of like 100, I don't know how many horror movies it was.

Seth: 00:02:43

A lot.

Marianna: 00:02:43

It's a lot.

Kyle: 00:02:44

We could put it in our episode description.

Seth: 00:02:46

Yeah.

Kyle: 00:02:46

On the subject.

Marianna: 00:02:47

Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's one of my favorites. But I actually put it in the funner, less scary versions.

But I'm going to take it out of that category now because it scared you so much.

Kyle: 00:02:58

Much it scared.

Seth: 00:02:59

It's very different kind of fear, though.

Marianna: 00:03:02

It's a successful scare.

Seth: 00:03:04

Yes. Yeah, yes. There was never moments where I was like, jump scare kind of situation. But the whole movie itself really had me white knuckling the couch.

Marianna: 00:03:14

It gets under your skin.

Seth: 00:03:16

It really does.

Kyle: 00:03:16

What specifically?

Seth: 00:03:18

Well, first off, I wanted the kid to die from the moment he opened his mouth.

Marianna: 00:03:21

Oh my God, he's so creepy.

Seth: 00:03:23

I hated him so much until the last 10 minutes of the movie. And then I was like, I get it, I get it. The kid is actually seeing crazy shit. No one believes him.

So it's like by the end of the movie I actually liked him again. But that was a big part, was just how annoying he was.

But then on top of that, the, the, the strangeness of like the book being on the shelf and even you realize the mom has no idea where this book came from and no idea why he picked it.

And then the I love the shredding it up, throwing it in the trash and then not only does it come back, but it's glued together with a different set of words. And it's like it was like her ripping it up kind of released the Babadook into the house like fully.

And then, I don't know, just, just this idea of the more you deny, the bigger it gets.

Kyle: 00:04:15

Yeah.

Seth: 00:04:15

Really just kept eating at me the whole time, really.

And her relationship with her sister, like, it's just the, the, the overall composition of the story in the film is just really what made it so creepy for me. Interesting for being such a nice. And I texted you at the end of this. It is a beautiful 90 minute, very self contained horror movie.

And, and yeah, just, just the overall vibe and the story and the acting, all of it just, just, just had me so stressed the whole Movie.

Kyle: 00:04:49

Interesting.

Seth: 00:04:50

Yeah.

Kyle: 00:04:50

You know what's funny is I, I view it as a really tight, well made piece of independent filmmaking.

Seth: 00:04:57

Yeah.

Kyle: 00:04:58

I was never scared. And that's not to say I don't get scared. I do. There are movies that have scared me in the past, but I 10 being one. Yeah. Tin Tin scared the of me.

I was like, I'm never watching this again. Why are there. Why are their bodies this size?

Seth: 00:05:10

Why is the dog drinking?

Kyle: 00:05:11

Why is the dog enabling alcoholism? That was scary. But I, I was psychologically. There was a lot of psychological tension as a parent.

Seth: 00:05:21

Yeah.

Kyle: 00:05:22

Because I actually think as much as this is a metaphor for grief, it's also a little bit of a metaphor for the challenges that come along with parenting.

Marianna: 00:05:30

Yeah.

Kyle: 00:05:30

I always.

Seth: 00:05:31

Single parenting.

Kyle: 00:05:32

Yes.

Marianna: 00:05:32

Oh, yeah.

Kyle: 00:05:32

Yes. And you know, I always tell people that don't have kids, like, what? You know, they asked me what's like having four kids.

One thing that I always think about is before I had kids, I used to judge people on airplanes that had crying, loud children. I'm like, get your together. Get your parent. Your children.

Seth: 00:05:47

See, I've stopped judging the parents and I just judge the kids.

Kyle: 00:05:50

Yes.

Seth: 00:05:50

I just, I talk to the kids. I'm like, what is your problem? Who, who do you think you are? You infant child asking for food.

Marianna: 00:05:57

You stop bothering your parents.

Seth: 00:05:59

Seriously. They are tired people. Give them a break.

Marianna: 00:06:03

Doing their best.

Seth: 00:06:03

You're the one being a selfish asshole. Yeah.

Kyle: 00:06:06

And then you have kids and you're like, I have no control.

Seth: 00:06:09

Yeah.

Kyle: 00:06:09

Like there's, there's no button.

Seth: 00:06:12

Yeah.

Kyle: 00:06:12

And now I. And I do this. I buy other parents drinks on planes. I don't drink myself, but I'm like, you know what? I cheers to you.

Seth: 00:06:19

I've been there, lady.

Kyle: 00:06:20

I know it's not you. I'm sure your kid is amazing. But the airplane, like, they're just choosing to turn it on now. And like, seriously. But a lot of.

I felt a lot of those vibes, like, even though I'm not scared. First of all, the acting is just top notch.

I mean, the, the actress here, and I keep forgetting her name because this is kind of my first exposure to her, but she is just crushing it.

Seth: 00:06:41

She's incredible. The fact that I hated the kids so much. I think speaking speaks to his acting abilities.

Kyle: 00:06:45

Yes.

Seth: 00:06:46

I did not hate him because the actor was annoying. I hated him because of the character.

Kyle: 00:06:50

He was great. And you were talking about how you hated him. I had a kind of a different take. The whole movie. I'm thinking, I think of Amora as an Olympian.

Seth: 00:06:58

Yeah.

Kyle: 00:06:59

I'm like, this kid's preparing for something. There's a. There's a. There's gonna be a confrontation or there's gonna be a climactic moment. I'm like, he's been preparing for this his whole life.

Marianna: 00:07:07

Yeah, yeah.

Kyle: 00:07:08

Like, with this. With his weapons and his, like, gnarly attitude, I'm just like, he's prepping for me.

Seth: 00:07:14

It was that moment where the mom was like, do you ever shut up? Yeah, I. That is what I was feeling the whole movie.

Marianna: 00:07:19

Yeah.

Kyle: 00:07:20

Yeah.

Seth: 00:07:20

I was like, she said it. She shouldn't have, but she said it. God damn it.

Kyle: 00:07:24

And as much as it focuses on grief and the big reading on this is, it's. It's grief, but to me, it's also kind of like the. The toxic kind of side effects of not dealing with your grief and not dealing with you.

Anytime you have something festering, it will come out.

And for even the way she treated, even though she was haunted or she was possessed or whatever, at the end, the way she was treating her child, like, that was. That. To me, that was the big metaphor. It's like when you don't take care of your own.

Seth: 00:07:51

Yeah.

Kyle: 00:07:51

That is how you treat other people, including your own children.

Seth: 00:07:53

Yeah.

Kyle: 00:07:54

So that why I wasn't scared, but psychologically, I was like, oh, my God, this is so real.

Seth: 00:07:57

Yeah.

Marianna: 00:07:58

Yeah.

Seth: 00:07:58

I think that's what it was. The realness of it just stressed me out.

Kyle: 00:08:01

Yes.

Seth: 00:08:02

So much.

Marianna: 00:08:02

I think that stress has got to be the.

Kyle: 00:08:04

The opt.

Marianna: 00:08:05

Like, the apt word for this movie is stress.

Seth: 00:08:08

It's a stressful scary. It's not a I'm scared scary. It's the tension, the fact that genuinely I never knew what was about to happen.

Marianna: 00:08:17

Yeah. And then I think that the horror is very well executed. So that's my other thing. And I love quick horror. Quick movements, horror.

And I'm like, oh, it's like stop motion almost.

Seth: 00:08:27

Yeah. It felt that way.

Marianna: 00:08:28

Yeah. So it. It feels otherworldly. And it doesn't have to be this big, big thing to like, really just take your breath away, you know?

And you're just like, ah, it's under the couch.

Seth: 00:08:37

No. 100%.

Marianna: 00:08:38

Yeah.

Kyle: 00:08:39

Yeah. A little bit of history about the Baba Duke. I like saying it like that. The.

In: 2005

A monster man, as. As the child called it. And so. And she wanted to use this film as kind of an allegory for the dark side of parenting.

Seth: 00:09:07

Yeah.

Kyle: 00:09:08

You know, typically in Hollywood, you can see the glitz and the glam and, oh, man. Be like married with children, you know, and. But then, like, there is this very real. Like, that's how it affected me. Right.

This very real angle of the dark side of parenting. And so. And then eventually she had more relationships where she knew more parents. Over time, that started to really seep into the story.

And so around: 2010

o actually take this from the: 2005

uncanny atmosphere of, like,: 1920

Seth: 00:09:56

Yeah.

Kyle: 00:09:57

That's what inspired kind of the look.

Seth: 00:09:59

Almost kind of felt like Maurice Sendex, who did the Seven Little Monsters, almost felt like that kind of art style vibe, which I love.

Kyle: 00:10:08

Yeah.

Marianna: 00:10:08

Kind of felt like. Was it Richard Gorey or. His last name's Gory. Is this old illustration artist is very like.

Seth: 00:10:16

Do you remember what specifically?

Marianna: 00:10:19

No, it's just he's an old illustration artist. Is kind of horror based. I'll find some.

Seth: 00:10:26

I haven't heard of him.

Marianna: 00:10:27

I think he's. He's good.

Seth: 00:10:28

Nice.

Marianna: 00:10:29

Might not be that famous. You know me, I'm always like, is it obscure and related to horror?

Seth: 00:10:35

Turns out it was just like a distant uncle of yours.

Marianna: 00:10:37

Yeah, turns out it's me.

Kyle: 00:10:41

It was: 1893

Marianna: 00:10:47

He's my favorite Romanian artist.

Kyle: 00:10:49

Actually.

Marianna: 00:10:50

Actually, this movie did remind me of my favorite Iranian horror mov.

Seth: 00:10:55

Oh, shit.

Marianna: 00:10:55

Whoa. Called under the Shadow.

Kyle: 00:10:57

Oh, wow.

Seth: 00:10:58

Okay.

Marianna: 00:10:58

Because it takes in under the Shadow. It takes place. There's a missile that falls into the middle of the house. And there's a horror movie that happens, like, around it.

I'm not giving anything away.

Kyle: 00:11:08

Wow.

Marianna: 00:11:09

But I like that this is centered around there's. It's not the Babadooks that's the problem. It's like the grief and everything that they're not addressing about it.

You know, I love the fact when they do the horror, but it's not. It has nothing to do with the monster that makes it scary. It's like everything else is scary.

Kyle: 00:11:25

Yeah.

Marianna: 00:11:25

And then it's like they're psych. It's like their psyche creates the Babadook.

Kyle: 00:11:28

Yeah, yeah, yeah. The big, scary monster. Love it. Yeah. And it's kind of interesting.

It's a tale of two different actors here on how they cast this, because SC Davis, who played Amelia, who is phenomenal. I just want to say one of.

Seth: 00:11:40

The best performances I've seen in a very long.

Kyle: 00:11:42

Wow. It's just so good. She was a. So Kent.

Jennifer Kent, the director, was actually an actress by trade, and they were drama school teammates, and that's why she used Essie, because they were friends and drama school.

Seth: 00:11:52

Yeah.

Kyle: 00:11:53

Now, Sam was a different story. Noah Wiseman was chosen from, I think, 500 or 600 different auditions.

Seth: 00:11:59

Yeah.

Kyle: 00:11:59

And. And the reason that Ken ended up going with him is because she loved him as an actor. He had a certain level of innocence that she liked.

And I really liked reading this because I actually struggle, personally. I felt this way about the Shining, even though the Shining is one of my favorite movies, the Omen.

Anytime a kid is cast in a horror movie, I'm like, that's just got to have an impact.

Seth: 00:12:18

Oh, yeah.

Kyle: 00:12:18

You know, even though I think they try to pad them, but they said that they actually went way out of their way when they were making this film. They explained the movie to Noah Wiseman in childish terms to kind of help him not feel like he was actually being terrified. You know what I mean?

They went out of his way, what they say, to protect him during the filmmaking, which made me feel better because I watched the Shining. I'm like, there's no way. Now Danny Lloyd is, like, thriving today as a person. But I'm just like, how could that not impact you?

Stanley Kubrick being a dick to everybody. I'm like, yeah, but this was really scrappy, man. The movie was made for $2 million.

Actually, some of that funding, because I guess it had to do with the. The drama school they went to. They managed to get some Australian government funding.

Marianna: 00:12:59

Amazing.

Seth: 00:13:00

This is Australia, not British.

Kyle: 00:13:01

It was Australian.

Seth: 00:13:02

Yeah.

Marianna: 00:13:02

It took me 20 minutes to realize they were Australian. The second time I watched it, $2.

Kyle: 00:13:07

Million budget and $30,000 of that was actually crowdfunded from the art department of the drama school they went to.

Marianna: 00:13:14

Oh, I love that.

Kyle: 00:13:14

Yeah. And so made 10.8 million.

Seth: 00:13:17

That's incredible.

Kyle: 00:13:17

Yes.

Marianna: 00:13:18

Yeah.

Kyle: 00:13:19

Yeah. Very limited. Very limited release, but it ended up drawing a lot of Praise from Stephen King and William Freakin.

Seth: 00:13:24

So I think it really hit its stride when it came out on Netflix.

Kyle: 00:13:27

Yeah.

Seth: 00:13:28

Because, like, Netflix picked it up to just put it. And that's. That's when I started hearing about. It was. All of my friends were like, have you seen the Babadook? Have you seen this? This is incredible.

Kyle: 00:13:36

Yeah. So really great.

Seth: 00:13:37

Yeah.

Kyle: 00:13:38

Have you resolved your grief?

Seth: 00:13:43

Oh, my God.

Kyle: 00:13:43

anian directors from the late: 1890

We are here for you, and we don't want you to lock us in the basement and feed us worms. We want you to recover. So share Movie Wars.

Seth: 00:13:59

I hate it every time he does these.

Kyle: 00:14:01

That will help you resolve your grief.

Seth: 00:14:03

Do you know if the Babadook was computer generated or if it was some sort of practical animation or, like, how do you. Do you. Did you get any information. Information on that?

Kyle: 00:14:11

I didn't get into that part a ton. But based on the surface level research, it's a mixture of both.

Seth: 00:14:16

Okay.

Kyle: 00:14:16

Yeah. But a lot. Yeah. I think there was some practical. I think when he actually, like, shows up and spreads out his hands like that thing.

I think that part was actually a puppet.

Seth: 00:14:24

The special effects were nuts. Like, the. The moment when. When Sam got pulled up the stairs, I. Again, same thing with last week. I literally went, oh, my God, that was cool as.

Kyle: 00:14:35

Yes.

Seth: 00:14:36

Like that. And then when he gets pulled back and she pulls him back, like, all of that was so flawlessly done.

Kyle: 00:14:42

Yeah. I. It was so limited, too. Yeah. So much of this just happens in the mind.

Seth: 00:14:47

Yeah. But it works.

Kyle: 00:14:49

So. Yeah.

Marianna: 00:14:49

And this was the second time that I'd watched it. And I always judge a movie. Like, I like my. I like to watch a movie three times.

And honestly, three nights in a row is kind of my, like, way of doing it is. That's always. I don't know if it's ocd, whatever. But whatever it is, you know, I just like to really get in there.

Seth: 00:15:05

Yeah.

Marianna: 00:15:06

But since this was the second time I watched it, I always judge the takes like that on how scared I am the second time. And I was so scared the second time. It's just so successful.

Seth: 00:15:16

Yeah.

Marianna: 00:15:17

It's almost like they did it on an out breath. They knew when you were breathing and they did it.

Seth: 00:15:22

Yeah. And it's like you can't breathe in because you're still breathing out.

Marianna: 00:15:25

Yeah.

Seth: 00:15:25

But you want to, like, whatever the reverse of a hiccup is.

Marianna: 00:15:29

Yeah, I know. I know. Wow. Yeah.

Seth: 00:15:33

There's Sorry. I was just. I was just having fun talking about movie. There's just so much about, like, how simple it was, but it never.

None of it felt like they were limiting themselves.

Kyle: 00:15:44

Wow.

Seth: 00:15:44

The whole thing. You could feel that there were limitations, but not imposed on themselves.

Marianna: 00:15:50

Yeah.

Seth: 00:15:51

They always were pushing whatever boundaries they had monetarily. They were like, let's go. Let's go as far as we can. That whole scene where, like, the. The. The.

The cousin is yelling at him and he pushes her out, that was just so expertly executed. Like, I have never seen two kids acting across each other like that. And then an effect where, like. Yeah. You know, she's not actually falling out.

Like, you know. You know what's going on, but it just felt. All of it just. No matter what, felt.

Kyle: 00:16:21

So did you not for a second think that they. Did the kid die? Because I didn't. I was wondering for a second. I didn't know how high it was. Well, high up.

Because I knew though the window behind her the whole time. I knew something was gonna happen.

Seth: 00:16:31

Yeah.

Kyle: 00:16:32

But I was like, how high is that window?

Seth: 00:16:34

Yeah.

Kyle: 00:16:34

I was like, is the kid. Because if the kid would have died, that would have been why.

Seth: 00:16:37

Oh, that would have been absolutely crazy.

Kyle: 00:16:39

Yeah.

Marianna: 00:16:39

I thought she was gonna fall backwards, not forward.

Seth: 00:16:42

Yeah.

Marianna: 00:16:42

So that's why I thought she was gonna die because of that. But then fell forward. I was like, okay, she's fine.

Seth: 00:16:46

Yeah.

Kyle: 00:16:47

What was the sister's name? Ruby.

Seth: 00:16:49

Yeah.

Kyle: 00:16:49

Right.

Seth: 00:16:50

Chloe.

Kyle: 00:16:50

Chloe Hearn. Just as great. I mean, obviously, Essie stills the show, but, wow. When she is, like, had it with Sam.

Seth: 00:16:57

Yeah. Oh, my God.

Marianna: 00:16:58

Yeah.

Kyle: 00:16:59

And it's very real. Like I said, the thing that this movie nails so hard is just like. And they did this. What were they like?

They weren't Child Protective Services, but the. The man and the woman that showed up at the door, they're like social workers.

Seth: 00:17:10

I think they were trying to help figure out how to place them in another school.

Kyle: 00:17:13

Yeah.

I think what they represented is the constant external judgment that you feel as a parent, kind of the watchful eye, the people kind of looking at you from afar, like, oh, I bet they're horrible. But, you know, it's just like, that pressure. Like, I took my kids to Target yesterday just so my daughter could spend her birthday money.

One of my kids was absolutely horrific the whole time, literally kicking the shopping cart. And in general, she's a great kid. Her teachers are obsessed with her. Her Sunday school teachers are obsessed with. Everyone loves her.

Seth: 00:17:42

But we're at the Store sometimes you.

Kyle: 00:17:43

Got a bad day, turned on the charm. And I couldn't help but think, I probably look like I'm the worst.

And if, like, you don't know about raising kids, you're probably like, oh, my gosh, like, what's wrong with him? Those two. To me, like, every time she opened the door, they were there. I was like, the watchful eye.

Marianna: 00:17:58

No, no.

Seth: 00:17:58

But then at the same time, at the very end of the movie, when they come back.

Marianna: 00:18:01

Yeah.

Seth: 00:18:02

And her demeanor has changed. You see, they actually just want to help.

Marianna: 00:18:06

Yeah.

Seth: 00:18:06

They're actually just like, hey, life is tough. What can we do for you? How can we actually.

Because in that moment where they were like, clearly we've come at a bad time, I was like, oh, they're about to take the kid.

Kyle: 00:18:18

Yeah.

Seth: 00:18:18

That's what I thought about to happen. But then you flip the script at the very end, and she's doing better. And then now you, as the audience get that vibe that they're just there to be.

To be helpful. They just want what's best for the kid.

Marianna: 00:18:31

I'm so happy that they had that vibe with them, too, because that. I remember the first time I watched this movie.

I remember going back into this movie thinking it ended well, and the Babadook was, like, part of their family. But I think it was because of the child protective services people just, like, leaving on a good note, you know?

And I love the way that the son lets them know why they've never celebrated his birthday.

Seth: 00:18:56

Yeah.

Marianna: 00:18:56

You know, I think that's, like, a very good pivotal moment. And I'd even forgotten, despite them talking about it throughout the movie, you know?

Seth: 00:19:03

Oh, yeah.

Marianna: 00:19:04

This movie is so good at, like, jump scaring. Not jump scaring you, but scaring you that, like, you even forget the things that are important. Wow.

Kyle: 00:19:13

Yeah.

Seth: 00:19:14

So good.

Marianna: 00:19:14

Yeah.

Kyle: 00:19:15

Rando.

Seth: 00:19:16

Randos.

Marianna: 00:19:17

Randos.

Seth: 00:19:18

There we go.

Kyle: 00:19:18

Yeah. Sorry.

Marianna: 00:19:20

I tried to harmonize.

Kyle: 00:19:23

Yeah.

Marianna: 00:19:24

I can't sing, so it's just pitch.

Seth: 00:19:27

Just. Just. Just go up or down.

Kyle: 00:19:32

Sorry.

Seth: 00:19:33

We did get a great example of him singing during training day.

Kyle: 00:19:37

They had never heard the Macy Gray song. He had never heard of Macy Gray.

Seth: 00:19:41

What? I know.

Kyle: 00:19:42

I try to. You don't.

Marianna: 00:19:43

I listen to that song, like, all the time.

Kyle: 00:19:45

I sang the whole chorus on the podcast.

Marianna: 00:19:47

Oh, my God. Do you know who Sonique is?

Seth: 00:19:50

No.

Kyle: 00:19:50

Yeah.

Marianna: 00:19:50

Do you know who Sade is?

Kyle: 00:19:52

Yeah. Soul child music. Soul child. Oh, my God.

Marianna: 00:19:55

You're not the same age as us, I don't think.

Seth: 00:19:58

I'm 31.

Marianna: 00:19:58

Oh, no wonder. Yeah. You're definitely not the same age.

Kyle: 00:20:01

Sorry, man.

Marianna: 00:20:02

That makes sense. Okay. This makes total sense.

Kyle: 00:20:04

I'm pushing the gray course.

Marianna: 00:20:06

You don't know who Sade is.

Seth: 00:20:07

Homeschooled.

Marianna: 00:20:08

Oh, I'm sorry. I'm like, we're putting a lot on.

Seth: 00:20:11

You see, she's nice to me.

Marianna: 00:20:12

This is inappropriate.

Kyle: 00:20:13

I wasn't mean about it. Well, there's no way you should know.

Marianna: 00:20:16

Who these people are.

Kyle: 00:20:17

I did watch the video of me and I was like, wow. I got really. I got really mad.

Marianna: 00:20:20

Oh, my God. Macy Gray, though, but she's like pivotal for me for like 37. Oh, my God.

Kyle: 00:20:25

Let me see that one.

Seth: 00:20:26

Yeah.

Kyle: 00:20:28

This is cool. And I feel like you. If you would have had seen. If you would have seen this movie at the time, you probably would have nabbed one of these.

But there was a limited edition replica of the Babadook pop up book.

Seth: 00:20:38

Oh, that's dope.

Kyle: 00:20:39

Oh, my God. They sold 60. You would have loved it too, because you, you love chotchkis.

Seth: 00:20:45

Yeah.

Kyle: 00:20:45

copies were sold in: 2015

They all were signed by Jennifer Kent and Now they fetch 500 a pop on the resale market.

Seth: 00:21:02

Damn.

Marianna: 00:21:02

It's amazing. I would never sell that.

Seth: 00:21:04

Pulling it up on ebay now.

Marianna: 00:21:06

That's amazing. Oh, I love when they release stuff like that.

Seth: 00:21:10

Oh, yeah, that would be.

Marianna: 00:21:11

So that's why I love a 24 stuff.

Kyle: 00:21:13

Yeah. And. And this. Actually, we have a question that Seth wanted to do on this later, but despite the popularity, one of.

This is one of the, kind of the biggest. Like, why is there no sequel? There's a lot of demand. Jennifer Kent owns 100 of the rights.

Seth: 00:21:27

Good for her.

Kyle: 00:21:28

Yeah.

Seth: 00:21:28

Hell yes. Good job.

Kyle: 00:21:30

So great woman. But she says this is a. This is a one and done. She has zero desire.

Seth: 00:21:35

Good.

Kyle: 00:21:36

And I don't, I don't really understand either. I'm like, what do you want to happen next? Like, the Babadook goes to someone else's grief.

Seth: 00:21:43

Yeah.

Kyle: 00:21:43

Like, like they outsource the Babadook to. So, like, I just don't. Some movies, you don't have to have a sequel. A lot of them actually should never happen.

Seth: 00:21:52

Yeah.

Marianna: 00:21:52

Yeah. Unless like the child grew up and it was the mom that died or something.

Seth: 00:21:56

Like, I mean, I. I could see how you could make a sequel. Does there need to be one? No, not at all.

Marianna: 00:22:02

It's perfect.

Seth: 00:22:03

Yeah.

Marianna: 00:22:03

And I don't say that a lot.

Seth: 00:22:05

Yeah.

Kyle: 00:22:05

Last rando and it sounds like Guillermo del Toro reacted the same way you did. He said he spilled his popcorn corn, which is weird. I was never scared, but he spilled his popcorn watching this movie. And this was rated one of the.

The scariest movie of the 21st century. It's been on several lists. Like, several. Including. I guess he's a beloved. I don't know him. Film critic Mark Kermode.

Seth: 00:22:27

Okay.

Kyle: 00:22:28

Rated. This is one of the scariest movies of the 21st century.

Seth: 00:22:31

Nice. Well, then I'll give you my rando for this.

Kyle: 00:22:34

Yeah, please.

Seth: 00:22:35

Somehow, the Babadook accidentally became a massive LGBTQ icon. Yeah, because I don't know. Yeah, this is. I heard about this last night. This is the funniest thing I've ever heard.

Some intern at Netflix tagged the movie wrong. And during Pride month, it was the number one watched LGBTQ tagged movie. And the gay community just ran with it.

They were like, okay, I guess he's gay now. And so, yeah, the Babadook. Apparently, at some Pride parades, you will still see people with the pride flag with the Babadook on it.

Marianna: 00:23:09

Yeah.

Seth: 00:23:10

Oh, my God.

Marianna: 00:23:10

That's amazing.

Kyle: 00:23:11

He's just a very flamboyant gay man.

Seth: 00:23:13

Yeah, but it was back in: 2010

Marianna: 00:23:20

That's so funny.

Seth: 00:23:22

It's so good.

Marianna: 00:23:23

I love that.

Kyle: 00:23:24

Why not? Yeah. I wonder how often that happens.

Marianna: 00:23:28

Oh, you want to hear something? You mentioned Guillermo del Do you know he has that Cabinet of Curiosity show on Netflix?

Seth: 00:23:34

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Marianna: 00:23:35

She actually directed one of the episodes.

Kyle: 00:23:37

Oh, Jennifer Kent did.

Marianna: 00:23:38

Jennifer Kented.

Kyle: 00:23:39

Wow.

Marianna: 00:23:39

My favorite episode in that is directed by Panos Cosmitos, who made Mandy.

Seth: 00:23:44

Okay. And I need to watch that show.

Marianna: 00:23:46

Beyond the Black Rainbow. Oh, my God.

Seth: 00:23:49

Hell, yeah.

Marianna: 00:23:49

It's one of those for me.

Seth: 00:23:50

Wowzer Rim is one of the best action movies that's ever been made.

Marianna: 00:23:53

Pacific Rim is my favorite movie of all time.

Seth: 00:23:55

Thank you, Del Toro. It's on the list for next year. Yeah.

Marianna: 00:23:58

Okay. If I'm not on that movie, I will.

Seth: 00:24:00

I got you.

Marianna: 00:24:02

I'll cut some.

Kyle: 00:24:02

There's an announcement that may. That may impact your point of view on whether or not you'll be. Yeah. Yep. Babadook. That's like my go to. What do they call tick?

My nervous tick, you know? But now that I know he's a flamboyant gay man, I don't know what. I don't know what to do about that.

Seth: 00:24:22

Yeah, you match the style Though.

Kyle: 00:24:23

Yeah. Well, you all should see this. It doesn't fit over the. My. My cocaine farmer hat.

Seth: 00:24:29

You need to get some in ears.

Kyle: 00:24:31

I do, I do, actually. I do kind of like the head over the ears, but because I'm already kind of losing. I've lost some of my hearing.

Guitar amps, you know, they were like, oh, I'll never lose my hearing. And then like 10 years later, I'm like, what?

Seth: 00:24:42

Yeah.

Kyle: 00:24:42

What? Yeah. Thank you. Divided by 13, which was my. My amplifier of choice way too loud. Questions the questions. Let's go right off the sequel thing.

There's a lot of consternation over a sequel not being made. Should there be?

Seth: 00:25:01

I think. Okay. A no, there shouldn't be. But if they were going to make one, I think it should be a Wes Anderson style almost sitcom.

Marianna: 00:25:08

Oh, my God.

Seth: 00:25:09

Or it's just like it's Mommy and me and Babby makes three.

Marianna: 00:25:13

Oh, that'd be cute.

Seth: 00:25:14

Wouldn't that be fucking hilarious? Just like stupid pop up book sitcom.

Kyle: 00:25:19

Style with a great like 70s Americana pop soundtrack. You know, like you can't.

Seth: 00:25:23

Oh, we got baby. Yeah. Should be called Babby in the Basement.

Kyle: 00:25:26

Babby in the Basement.

Seth: 00:25:27

Yeah.

Marianna: 00:25:28

Oh, my God, I love that. Babby in the Basement.

Seth: 00:25:33

The very last scene. That's immediately what I thought was like, if there was a sequel, it would be them trying to make this family dynamic work.

Kyle: 00:25:42

But it couldn't be a horror.

Seth: 00:25:43

It would have to be a Wes Anderson comedy.

Marianna: 00:25:45

Oh, my God, I love that.

Kyle: 00:25:47

I love that idea. You told me you were excited about this idea.

Seth: 00:25:50

That's why.

Marianna: 00:25:51

Yeah, Yeah.

I don't want there to be a sequel unless the director changes her mind and like, comes up with an idea of how she could somehow bring it to either maybe another family, another way, like the book finds its way to another. You know, I could accept that.

Seth: 00:26:08

Like, I absolutely could accept that somehow.

Marianna: 00:26:10

Just like Jumanji.

Seth: 00:26:11

Yeah. And it's like different grief situations each time. Almost like a crow, but hopefully nowhere near as bad as shitty of angels. Yeah.

Kyle: 00:26:20

Yeah.

Marianna: 00:26:21

But I could see only if her brain came up with. Or the writer, her team, whatever.

Seth: 00:26:26

She wrote it.

Marianna: 00:26:27

She wrote it just by herself.

Seth: 00:26:28

Okay.

Marianna: 00:26:28

Amazing. Yeah. Whatever she does is right.

Kyle: 00:26:31

Yeah. This feels like a personal story. And it feels like the, the, the, the existence of the Babadook is, is based on one person's journey with grief.

Marianna: 00:26:41

Yeah.

Kyle: 00:26:41

And I, in my mind when I wrote this question down, I was trying to think like, well, I just feel like the only way they could do it is they'd have to over explain. They would have to like kind of redefine the lore.

Seth: 00:26:53

Yeah.

Kyle: 00:26:54

Like.

Like would it get out of the basement, you know, or you know, or could it get stronger or, you know, and I'm just like anything they would do would probably take it out of the lore, which makes it so special.

Marianna: 00:27:04

Yeah.

Kyle: 00:27:05

So I just, I couldn't think. I'm usually pretty good. I could even think of some funny ones like the Wes Anderson thing Seth just said.

But I just couldn't think of a realistic way to. Because it would just become impersonal.

Seth: 00:27:15

Yeah.

Kyle: 00:27:15

And that's what made this movie so special was it was very personal to her journey with grief.

Seth: 00:27:20

Yeah. So I mean like you said, if, if it was something where like it stayed with this family.

Kyle: 00:27:25

Yeah.

Seth: 00:27:25

And the kid grows up and something happens that causes him to. To worry that he's falling in the same cycle as his mom. And then that's when. Because now maybe he's trying to forget that the Babadook was a thing.

And so that's where he gets into the denial.

Kyle: 00:27:40

Yeah.

Marianna: 00:27:40

I mean, in a way, can't he be like traumatized by this?

Seth: 00:27:43

Oh yeah.

Marianna: 00:27:43

In a way. Like he's a child and this is horrifying. We were scared. We're adults. We're not even in this house.

Kyle: 00:27:49

I don't know. He kind of seemed into it. So me.

Marianna: 00:27:50

That's a good point. He's creepy.

Seth: 00:27:52

He's creepy at the same time. It's like I. I could see it as. Cuz he's 7 in the movie 6 or 7. So it's like you see him as an adult and I could see him thinking almost back.

Like it's a fever dream.

Marianna: 00:28:04

Yeah.

Seth: 00:28:04

And he's off living his life elsewhere and then something happens and maybe, maybe he comes back in contact with his mom or maybe she's dead or I don't know. But for some reason he starts remembering but thinking no, there's no way this was real.

Marianna: 00:28:18

Yeah.

Seth: 00:28:18

And then he has to confront that past in order to get like again, don't think I. It should happen. This needs to stay as a contained movie.

But what I like about it is that it does open up the dialogue for what would it look like later down the road. Because the Babadook still exists.

Marianna: 00:28:36

Yeah.

Seth: 00:28:37

Like they didn't kill. They didn't kill the monster. The monster is still there, just contained.

So yeah, there's all sorts of other stuff that could be done, but I do think it should just stay contained.

Kyle: 00:28:48

This kind of traps me closer to like Reddit release the Kent Cut conversation, which I just am allergic to in general, you know. Listen, there are so many monster movies. Why do you need this sequel? There will be 12 more made before the end of this year.

There are plenty of these movies. Go watch one of those. Reddit. Every time I get on there, I hate my life.

Seth: 00:29:13

Yeah.

Kyle: 00:29:13

But.

Marianna: 00:29:13

Oh, really?

Kyle: 00:29:14

Yeah. I don't get on there on purpose. Like, every now and again they send me an email like, like, oh, this is what's happening on Reddit.

Oh, that seems interesting. I get on there, I read the comments, and I want to jump off a bridge.

Seth: 00:29:22

Yeah.

Marianna: 00:29:23

Oh, I don't read comments.

Kyle: 00:29:24

Don't do it. Okay.

Seth: 00:29:26

After.

After meeting some of the Kill Tony people, it's been really fun to watch the Kill Tony subreddit under the understanding of what's actually going on behind the scenes.

Kyle: 00:29:34

Yeah.

Seth: 00:29:35

And like, watching everyone on Reddit just speculate, it's like, oh, clearly these two people hate each other and clearly this is going on. You're like, bro, you have no.

Kyle: 00:29:43

Oh, my God.

Marianna: 00:29:44

Yeah. It's like, no, they're all best friends. Yeah. No, they all like each other a lot. They're making quite a bit of money. Yeah. That makes people happy.

Seth: 00:29:51

Actually, these two people that you never think actually hate each other.

Marianna: 00:29:56

I love that. About being close to show business.

Seth: 00:29:59

Yes.

Kyle: 00:29:59

Yeah. Like, oh, next question. Is this too much metaphor and not enough monster?

Seth: 00:30:07

No. Think any more monster would have ruined the effect. It. The, the terrifying thing about the monster was how little you saw, but also how.

How much you did see just fed into it. It's like, oh, shit. Like the little glimpses when it's running in the background or something. That was crazy.

But for me, if you can pull off a solid shadow effect in a movie like this. Terrifying. Love it.

Kyle: 00:30:33

Yeah.

Marianna: 00:30:34

Yeah. Oh, my God. Like, they didn't have to do that much. This is my problem with Nightmare on Elm street was they almost showed him too much sometimes.

And I feel like, again, you just don't have to have the monster there all the time because your imagination fills in the blanks.

Seth: 00:30:48

Exactly.

Marianna: 00:30:49

And that's always scarier than anything you're going to show somebody. But I just think, though, especially the quickness of, like, how they moved, the. The puppet, the monk. I don't even know how they accomplished this.

Kyle: 00:31:01

Yeah.

Marianna: 00:31:02

Really. But in. In my mind, I can't even remember what it looked like as he was moving.

I just remember, like, the gloves and the hat would be, like, on the rack, you know, like in just innocuous Scenes like when she's at work or something, and it's just so creepy.

Kyle: 00:31:16

Yeah.

Marianna: 00:31:17

Yeah.

Seth: 00:31:17

The scene in the car where she crashes the car.

Marianna: 00:31:19

Yeah.

Seth: 00:31:20

That was terrifying.

Marianna: 00:31:21

Yeah. Oh. I also love how much they make everything else so minimal. So that. That's all it pops really well, because, like, the house. I don't know if y'.

All this, but it's gray. Every surface is gray except for, like, the ceiling, but it's like light gray and dark gray.

Seth: 00:31:33

Well, in his room. His room is black. Yeah. It's like, that's the only other color.

Marianna: 00:31:37

How is it a child's room? It's amazing. Like, and he's got all the medieval toys that he created himself. Yeah.

Seth: 00:31:43

I love it.

Marianna: 00:31:44

So cool.

Kyle: 00:31:45

Yeah. I. The monster was the least scariest part for me.

Marianna: 00:31:48

Really.

Kyle: 00:31:49

I didn't. I thought the design was cool, but I never was shocked by it. I was.

Seth: 00:31:54

I don't think you were supposed to be shocked by it. I think. Was it the point? If you were supposed to be shocked by it, you would have seen it more.

Kyle: 00:31:59

Yes.

Seth: 00:31:59

It's supposed to be a looming presence that you just don't understand.

Kyle: 00:32:03

Yeah. I was more terrified of, like, taking my kids to target.

My kids kicking the cart, you know, that was like, the thing that it was resonating with me is that parent to parent judgment. But no, I. I like the metaphor. I. I honestly was surprised by how far they took it.

Marianna: 00:32:17

Yeah.

Kyle: 00:32:17

Because at one point I just kind of realized, like, I see what they're doing here. This is a metaphor. But when she's keeping it fed in the basement, I was like, I get it, and I think it's a good ending.

But I was like, man, they took that really far.

Seth: 00:32:28

Yeah.

Kyle: 00:32:29

When she gives it the worms, I was like, I see what they're saying, and I like it. But I'm like, man, they really. They were like, we were gonna commit to this idea.

Seth: 00:32:36

Oh, yeah.

Marianna: 00:32:36

Yeah.

Seth: 00:32:36

But you have to.

Kyle: 00:32:37

Yeah.

Seth: 00:32:38

Like, the ending. The ending could have ruined everything.

Marianna: 00:32:41

Totally.

Seth: 00:32:41

That was perfect.

Kyle: 00:32:42

Yeah. I guess if it just disappeared or died or was gone. I guess. I mean, because that is. And what I read was, is that's.

Because that's her belief about what grief really is. Is it never fully goes away. It's about containing it and learning to live with it, which is true.

Marianna: 00:32:56

Learning to live with it.

Kyle: 00:32:58

That's why. Yeah.

Seth: 00:32:59

I mean, my dad's parents died almost 20 years ago, and every now and then, and it's. It's. It seems you've gotten, like, fewer and far between. But I just know every now and then there have been moments where he's talking to me.

He's just been like, I miss my mom.

Kyle: 00:33:12

Yeah.

Seth: 00:33:13

And it's like that. That kind of thing. Yes, you can move on. Yes, you can be better.

But at some point, it's just something's going to remind you and it's just going to be there. But it's. It's that same thing. Learning to live with it, learning to accept the moment and then just keep going.

Kyle: 00:33:26

Especially under tragic circumstances. You know, Like, I had a friend in an eighth grade.

I was such a loser, but I had, like, one friend, and she was really popular and I was a loser, but she was, like, really nice. And she died in a house fire. Like, her. Her Christmas tree lit on fire. Every year I go pick out our Christmas tree. I think of Sarah Ross.

Seth: 00:33:43

Yeah.

Kyle: 00:33:44

You know, I'm just like, damn, I can't believe she died because of a Christmas tree catching on fire.

Seth: 00:33:48

Yeah.

Kyle: 00:33:48

And it's just like. And then you get real, like, man, I feel bad about buying a Christmas tree now. It, like, really does.

Seth: 00:33:53

Official all the way.

Kyle: 00:33:55

So in that. Yeah. So in that way, this movie kind of nails that.

Seth: 00:33:58

Yeah.

Kyle: 00:33:59

In a big way. So.

Seth: 00:34:00

Absolutely.

Kyle: 00:34:01

This was a big thing. This question is based on just a lot of research I did on people's perception of this movie. Are you sympathizing with Amelia or judging her?

Seth: 00:34:10

Oh, sympathizing.

Kyle: 00:34:11

Yeah. Again, like, because both are out there.

Seth: 00:34:14

Yeah. For me, again, I don't. I don't judge parents anymore. I judge the kids.

Kyle: 00:34:18

I judge them hardcore, nasty little bastards.

Seth: 00:34:21

And there's There were some moments where I legit looked at this kid and. And thought the same thing she was saying out loud. What the is wrong with you? Like, when it.

It's always the thing where she's driving and he's said something and then just repeats it a hundred times, and I'm like, bro, we heard you. Shut the fuck up. Oh, my God. So, no, I completely. And especially, like, with the whole connection of he died the day that he was born.

Marianna: 00:34:50

Oh, my God.

Seth: 00:34:51

Like, that would just. That would fuck me so hard. So, no, I completely sympathize with her.

Marianna: 00:34:56

Yeah, same. Absolutely sympathize with her. Like, they make it so they show, I think, the stress of being a parent, so. Well, especially a single parent.

Kyle: 00:35:06

Yeah.

Marianna: 00:35:06

And I think just, like, how overwhelming it all is.

Seth: 00:35:09

Oh, yeah.

Marianna: 00:35:10

Work, find help, you know, childcare.

Every moment you don't have somebody else watching your child also who's watching your child, you're watching your child and your child's annoying sometimes. Yeah. Most of the time.

Seth: 00:35:23

Yeah.

Kyle: 00:35:23

Yeah.

Marianna: 00:35:24

You know, because they're a child and, you know, you're not the same age. You don't have much in common. It's just kind of.

Kyle: 00:35:30

Yeah.

Seth: 00:35:31

Just you guys and don't have that. That counterpart to balance things out.

Marianna: 00:35:35

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Kyle: 00:35:37

I agree. I think the parts that. Based on other viewers that they were. They were judging her, like. And I don't think anyone judged her holistically.

I just think it was like she refused to acknowledge that her child was having issues early on, which I. I mean, I get that point of view, but I think. I think I totally sympathize and a lot of it.

Like, one thing that really resonated with me is one thing I've learned lately, just about parenting, where I'm at, is that you do have to advocate for your kids.

Seth: 00:36:04

Oh, absolutely.

Kyle: 00:36:05

And I think people inside of the system, whether it's the education system, they just think that you're just. You think your kid is special or maybe they deserve. Not all of them. I have.

We're very lucky with some of the educators that we've ran into, but some of them might think that, like, oh, you just want special treatment for your kid. It's like, no, I'm advocating for my kid because I see them working so hard.

Seth: 00:36:23

Yeah. Yeah.

Kyle: 00:36:23

And. And I still see them struggling, and I watch them work. I literally just sit there and watch them and help them work.

Seth: 00:36:28

Yeah.

Kyle: 00:36:29

And I think I see that there's a balance between letting your kid learn the hard lessons and letting reality set in versus advocating here. And as a single mom who's been through something very traumatic, I think that this highlights that very well. And how many single moms.

I know, so many single parents that whether it's through bad marriage, abuse or neglect or trauma. Yeah, they get there a number of ways. And really, no one's there for them.

They have to go out and either get therapy where they can't afford it, and so you are left to pick up the pieces on your own.

Marianna: 00:36:58

Yeah.

Kyle: 00:36:59

And this is her against the system. Right. Educators and school system and, like, with no resources, no help, no money, and it's just like, I thought it was incredibly.

Seth: 00:37:09

That's why I like the juxtaposition of her perspective on the government officials showing up the first time versus the second time. Because, yeah, you feel that stress where it's like, you've caught me in the worst moment possible.

Life is not bad necessarily, but this is A bad week.

Marianna: 00:37:27

Yeah.

Seth: 00:37:28

And. And. And she's just sitting there hoping they're not judging everything based on this bad week.

And then you see them come back the next week, and it's like, oh, no. They actually weren't judging. They wanted to help. They wanted everything to be okay. So it's. Yeah. It's kind of that.

That juxtaposition that I think was portrayed so well through that perfect.

Kyle: 00:37:49

Last question. Better kid performance in a horror movie. Noah Wiseman as Sam or Danny Lloyd as Danny in the Shining.

Seth: 00:37:57

That is a tough one.

Kyle: 00:37:58

I had to throw in a.

Marianna: 00:37:59

That's a sigh.

Kyle: 00:38:00

Yeah.

Seth: 00:38:01

Also, I love it when that happens. Call back to our first time with you.

Kyle: 00:38:04

Yes.

Seth: 00:38:05

Yeah.

Kyle: 00:38:05

Yes.

Marianna: 00:38:06

Oh, my God.

Seth: 00:38:08

It's tough because they're vastly different characters because one. One is tortured for multiple reasons, and the other is. Is. I never felt like Sam was possessed. I feel like Danny was possessed.

Kyle: 00:38:24

Right.

Seth: 00:38:24

And so they're just. They're so different. One is very over the top, which the Babadook needed.

The other is very subdued and subtle and drawn, in, which the Shining needed to balance out Jack Nicholson's appropriately over the top performance. But I think as far as my personal feelings go and the visceral reaction I had to one or the other, I'm actually gonna have to give it to Sam.

Kyle: 00:38:51

Yeah.

Seth: 00:38:51

Because I hated him so much right up until the last 10 minutes. And that's when I was like, I get it now. I get it now.

Kyle: 00:39:00

Right.

Seth: 00:39:01

He took me on that journey.

Kyle: 00:39:03

Love it.

Seth: 00:39:03

So I'm gonna have to give it to Sam.

Kyle: 00:39:04

Okay.

Marianna: 00:39:05

It's like, just like with wrestlers.

Seth: 00:39:07

Like, yes.

Marianna: 00:39:09

Whenever I, like, really hate a wrestler, I'm like, ugh. They're so successful at.

Seth: 00:39:15

Makes me mad how much I think Logan Paul is such a good wrestler.

Marianna: 00:39:18

He's so good at being a heel. It's annoying.

Seth: 00:39:21

It's like, it.

Marianna: 00:39:23

He has, like, a little bounce, and his song is great. I'm so humble. This has gone off the rails.

Seth: 00:39:32

Hey, it's all good.

Kyle: 00:39:33

She's a big wrestling fan.

Marianna: 00:39:34

Yeah. It's a problem. God, I'm obsessed with Danny.

Seth: 00:39:41

It's fair.

Marianna: 00:39:41

I'm obsessed with Danny.

Seth: 00:39:43

They're both fantastic performances.

Marianna: 00:39:45

Yeah, they're both great. Sam is. You're right, though. He's so annoying. But the character's annoying. He's supposed to be annoying. I almost want to give it a tie.

Kyle: 00:39:52

Is that.

Seth: 00:39:53

You can.

Marianna: 00:39:53

Okay.

Seth: 00:39:54

You're allowed to.

Marianna: 00:39:55

All right.

Seth: 00:39:55

The Movie wars podcast. God damn it.

Kyle: 00:39:57

Yes.

Marianna: 00:39:58

I don't like to give a lot.

Kyle: 00:39:58

Of Ties and wars. If you've learned anything about war, it always ends in a tie.

Marianna: 00:40:03

Yeah.

Seth: 00:40:03

Everyone loses.

Kyle: 00:40:04

No. Yep.

Marianna: 00:40:05

Like tennis or badminton. Yeah.

Kyle: 00:40:09

With the shuttlecock.

Marianna: 00:40:10

Yeah. Yeah.

Kyle: 00:40:12

Curling.

Marianna: 00:40:12

Yeah. I. I can't pick. And also, I feel like they're both children when in the role, so I'm just kind of like. I don't know.

Seth: 00:40:19

It feels weird.

Kyle: 00:40:19

Don't judge those children.

Marianna: 00:40:21

I know, I know.

Kyle: 00:40:22

Yeah.

Marianna: 00:40:23

My maternal instincts, just, like, they're trying their best.

Kyle: 00:40:26

They're babies.

Marianna: 00:40:28

They're so beautiful. They're God's children.

Kyle: 00:40:31

So you're going to give them a tie.

Marianna: 00:40:32

Yeah.

Kyle: 00:40:33

I. This is tough because I. First of all, I'll just go ahead and say that they're both phenomenal.

Seth: 00:40:38

Yeah.

Kyle: 00:40:38

I will say that. And I think Danny. Maybe Danny did less acting than Noah did, but he also lived through filming with Stanley Kubrick for.

For a long period of time and cold mountains and on set and the fact that he came out normal and is a loving father. And I'm like, not. The Shining wasn't even the scariest thing for him.

It was probably watching Stanley Kubrick yell at Shelley Duvall and still turn out to be a normal person.

Seth: 00:41:05

Yeah. So who's the other guy that he hated?

Kyle: 00:41:08

Oh, oh, Scatman for others. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's Kubrick just torturing people.

And I think it's interesting that they picked Noah Wiseman for his innocence because once the camera came on, he was chewing up scenery.

Seth: 00:41:23

Yeah.

Kyle: 00:41:23

I mean, he's all over the. He's all over this thing. I thought he. He acted very out, whereas Danny was pretty timid. He was more subject to the circumstances.

Whereas I feel like Noah is like. He was like, I don't want you to die, Mommy. He's like the baby. He's, like, all over the place. And so I.

Actually, kind of out of character, I'm gonna give a very slight edge to Noah Wiseman here. I. And that's me saying that I think Danny Lloyd is. Danny's one of the best child performances ever.

Seth: 00:41:51

Yeah.

Kyle: 00:41:52

And I do think Noah just was. He was asked to do a little more.

Seth: 00:41:55

Yeah.

Kyle: 00:41:55

Now, granted, he didn't. They were trying to protect him. Whereas I think Stanley Cooper was probably.

Seth: 00:41:59

Get the.

Kyle: 00:42:00

Out of here. You know, and.

Marianna: 00:42:01

Yeah.

Kyle: 00:42:01

Like, you know, if you don't understand quantum physics, you know, in. Or Native American subtext, you know, all the things on the Shining. But anyway, I. It's a slight edge. Both great, but slight. Sam here.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Marianna: 00:42:15

I think they're just different.

Kyle: 00:42:16

Yeah, very.

Seth: 00:42:17

Like I said, they are polar opposite types of characters.

Marianna: 00:42:19

Totally.

Kyle: 00:42:19

Very. Yeah, very. All right, the closer, who and. Or what won the movie for you and who or what lost the movie for you?

Seth: 00:42:27

There wasn't really much that. That lost it for me. The only real scene I felt like. Felt out of place in the whole thing was the glass in the milk scene.

Kyle: 00:42:40

Yeah.

Marianna: 00:42:41

Oh, yeah.

Seth: 00:42:42

Yeah. That just. It just. It never related to anything else. It was just kind of there. And.

Yeah, I guess it kind of gave you the vibe that something was off, but it just. It set something up that never happened again. Nothing like that happened again.

Marianna: 00:42:57

Yeah.

Seth: 00:42:58

So that kind of was the only thing that kind of really pulled it out for me. But overall, I would. I would say what's. What's the director's name?

Kyle: 00:43:05

Jennifer Kent.

Seth: 00:43:06

I think she genuinely is what won this for me because she wrote and directed this.

Marianna: 00:43:10

Oh, yeah.

Seth: 00:43:10

This was all her vision and other than the one. And I'm sure she had a reason. I'm sure there's. There's reasoning behind it. But other than that one scene, nothing. Nothing was bad about this.

Crushed it. And the fact that she was able to. To get it put out but still retain the entire rights to everything.

Marianna: 00:43:29

Yeah.

Seth: 00:43:29

Props to you. I could not be more proud of you.

Kyle: 00:43:31

You go, that is incredible.

Seth: 00:43:33

So, yeah, she absolutely won it for me.

Kyle: 00:43:35

Yeah.

Marianna: 00:43:36

Well, for me, the cinematography and the main character won it for me.

Seth: 00:43:40

Yeah.

Kyle: 00:43:41

Right.

Marianna: 00:43:41

Specifically watching her, like, devolve into the Babadook.

Seth: 00:43:44

Yeah.

Marianna: 00:43:45

And, like, especially when her teeth are coming out. I love when they use teeth.

Seth: 00:43:48

Yeah.

Kyle: 00:43:49

It's because they know it's horrifying.

Seth: 00:43:51

Yeah.

Kyle: 00:43:51

It's such a cheap way to get a scare.

Marianna: 00:43:54

But the only reason I can say that is because I've never had that nightmare where my teeth have fallen out.

Seth: 00:43:58

I've had it multiple times. It's still. It still doesn't scare me, though, because I know why.

Marianna: 00:44:03

Okay, good. Because I couldn't handle it. I think that's why my brain doesn't do it too.

Seth: 00:44:07

Oh, yeah.

Marianna: 00:44:08

I really couldn't handle it because I love when they start pulling their teeth out.

Seth: 00:44:10

Yeah.

Marianna: 00:44:11

But, yeah, I just man. The cinematography and just. I think specifically the house, the set. The set for me. And, like, just how they put it all together.

Like, it looks like a storybook. Every part of it looks like a storybook.

Kyle: 00:44:24

Yeah.

Marianna: 00:44:25

And I just think that also kind of draws you in and with horror, like, that's my biggest thing is, like, I like to just stay drawn in. Yeah. Engaged.

Seth: 00:44:35

Yeah.

Marianna: 00:44:35

Yeah.

Kyle: 00:44:35

Love it.

Marianna: 00:44:36

And I don't think anything lost it for me. I. I don't have any notes.

Kyle: 00:44:40

rbin Bernson's the dentist in: 1996

If you think teeth are the most horrifying thing, like, because of pain and everything. That whole movie is about him, like, sadistically torturing and killing people in his dental practice.

Marianna: 00:44:56

Oh, my God.

Kyle: 00:44:57

So it's gross and horrifying. Anyway, I was trying to remember it was used to come on Cinemax.

Marianna: 00:45:03

Oh, yeah.

Seth: 00:45:04

r movie I made back in, like,: 2018

Kyle: 00:45:08

Oh, my God.

Marianna: 00:45:09

Yeah, yeah.

Kyle: 00:45:10

It's called Tifams.

Seth: 00:45:13

It's actually called Ouija.

Kyle: 00:45:14

Oh, I was close.

Seth: 00:45:16

It's about summoning a demon from a woman who has a Ouija board tattooed on her stomach. We got comedy as the genre of horror that we did, and it is hilarious.

Marianna: 00:45:24

Oh, I want to see it.

Seth: 00:45:25

Yeah.

Marianna: 00:45:26

Is it short?

Seth: 00:45:27

Yeah, it's like.

Kyle: 00:45:27

Oh, nice.

Seth: 00:45:28

Yeah. Yeah.

Kyle: 00:45:29

Also translated in Latin American is Tiffums. Sorry, I'm just gonna ride that joke into hell. What won it for me?

Seth: 00:45:37

Tifams?

Kyle: 00:45:40

What won it for me was there are so many. Well, I'm just gonna straight out just say Essie Davis.

Marianna: 00:45:47

Yeah.

Kyle: 00:45:47

Maybe I don't want to exaggerate. I got a little bit of recency bias to work through, which is hard on this podcast because you just watched it. Right. And you're like, I'm teaming.

Maybe one of the best horror performances I've seen.

Seth: 00:45:59

Yeah.

Marianna: 00:45:59

Yeah.

Kyle: 00:46:00

Maybe not even there with the mom.

Seth: 00:46:02

From Hereditary for me.

Kyle: 00:46:03

Oh, yeah. Well, there's. There's just a bunch of great performances in that movie.

Seth: 00:46:07

Yeah.

Kyle: 00:46:08

But I just. I can't believe that she hadn't done a lot. And she's done a lot on, like, Australian tv, and she's got.

It looks like mostly just Australian movies here, but just crushed it. Just crushed it. And then secondarily, something that won it for me were the still shots of the house.

Seth: 00:46:23

Yeah.

Kyle: 00:46:24

I love picturesque painting type of cinematography. Same the stairs.

Seth: 00:46:28

Yeah.

Kyle: 00:46:29

The kitchen, the doors, the bait.

Seth: 00:46:31

Just.

Kyle: 00:46:31

Just plain set pieces being filmed. But really still, those were the most peaceful moments. And I think they may have been intentional because it was like we got all this grief.

Seth: 00:46:41

Oh, yeah.

Kyle: 00:46:42

You're steeped in. In the sadness. But let's just take a moment and admire the setting.

Seth: 00:46:46

Normally good cinematography is very intentional.

Kyle: 00:46:49

Yes. Especially in the genre.

Seth: 00:46:51

Yeah.

Kyle: 00:46:51

And I'm just like, like, just like I'm Just like admiring a. Like a still shot of the staircase. I'm just like, that's beautiful.

Marianna: 00:46:58

Yeah.

Kyle: 00:46:58

So kudos there. What? Lost it for me. The dad and slash husband is not really much of a person to me. I just don't feel like we learned a lot about him.

I would just kind of wanted to know something specific about him that she missed or maybe.

Seth: 00:47:14

So you want to know why I think that was why? Because I think this story is actually from the perspective of Sam.

Kyle: 00:47:20

Really?

Seth: 00:47:21

Yeah. Genuinely. And I know. I know you're following the mom, but I feel like it's all through his eyes.

And so he doesn't know about his dad because she won't talk about him.

Kyle: 00:47:29

True.

Seth: 00:47:30

And I think that honestly kind of lended to the craziness of why you don't totally understand why he is the way he is.

Kyle: 00:47:36

That's a really good point. And then you.

Marianna: 00:47:38

You.

Kyle: 00:47:38

They kind of dropped the bomb on you. Because I guess. I guess I didn't realize that he never met his dad until they dropped the bomb that she was pregnant with him when he died.

Seth: 00:47:46

Yeah.

Kyle: 00:47:46

And I think that was a really big twist. That was kind of underrated. I was like, oh, he never actually knew his dad.

Seth: 00:47:51

Yeah. That shot of also his dad's head getting cut off, like the top of the head.

Kyle: 00:47:55

That was pretty wicked.

Seth: 00:47:56

That was insane.

Kyle: 00:47:57

That was pretty wicked.

Marianna: 00:47:58

That was mean. And that was a mean thing to do.

Kyle: 00:48:01

Yeah, that's like the. That's like the biggest factoid we learned about him is that he was. Had a diagonal shaped head when he died. It's like, oh, okay. That's. Yeah. Oh, wow.

What a thing to put on a resume.

Seth: 00:48:10

That opening shot, though, of them in the car. Oh, my. And then. Then her falling onto the bed, like.

Kyle: 00:48:16

Yeah.

Seth: 00:48:16

It looked like a green screen right up until the moment that she had the bed. And I was like, actually, that may have just been real. Okay.

Marianna: 00:48:23

Yeah.

Kyle: 00:48:23

Yeah. And the only other thing that lost it for me, I liked the ending. I did. It was a little bit of a. Like a okay for me. What.

What's the word I'm looking for? I'm like. It was like, okay, this is. I literally said that. When she slides the worms to him, I'm like, okay, why worms, do you think?

Seth: 00:48:44

How many why worms?

Kyle: 00:48:46

Yeah, why? Yeah, I mean, the ba. Yeah.

Marianna: 00:48:48

Like, it's a grease thing.

Kyle: 00:48:50

Gluten allergy. Yeah, yeah. Babadooks.

Seth: 00:48:53

He's on Carnivore. He's on the worm of war.

Marianna: 00:48:54

I guess you're not supposed yeah, yeah, sorry, I was talking over that. And again, in a worm of war.

Kyle: 00:49:01

Diet, it took me a day or two to process the ending. And ultimately, when I read more about it, I was like, I like it. I like the meaning. I think it's very accurate about the feeling of grief.

Seth: 00:49:10

Yeah.

Kyle: 00:49:11

But it still was a little bit of a okay for me. So I liked it, but it still was. They wrote the metaphor all the way. And sometimes I'm like, yeah, okay.

Ultimately, it didn't ruin the movie for me, but it lands the plane just a little bit. But it didn't land it all the way for me.

Marianna: 00:49:27

Yeah.

Kyle: 00:49:29

All right. And let's do our war zone. Little. Little. Fire. Fire. What's the word? I keep losing words. Firestorm of category. So remember, we do rapid. Rapid fire.

Yeah, that's what I was looking for. So cast. We do writing, directing, and then film.

Seth: 00:49:47

You got this.

Kyle: 00:49:48

It's a C. Composition. Composition. It used to be called what's in Front of Us. But that's the editing, the visuals, graphics.

Seth: 00:49:57

Of music, the sound.

Kyle: 00:49:58

Sound, cinematography, all the mechanics.

Seth: 00:50:01

Yeah. Acting crushed it. Everything about this was incredible. Down down to the children.

Every single one of the children who had speaking roles did fantastic jobs.

Kyle: 00:50:10

Yep.

Seth: 00:50:11

All of the background characters, the police officers, the state officials, the. The school board people that they were talking to, like the principal and the teacher, everyone crushed it. Everyone really drew me into the world so.

Well, for technically going to be lumping writing and directing together because the same person. Flawless.

Kyle: 00:50:31

Yeah.

Seth: 00:50:31

No notes. Fucking immaculate.

Not only did you write such compelling dialogue and such a wonderfully compact story, but you made sure that the feeling that you had writing it down came across through everything that everyone said and did. So masterful on both sides of writing and directing. And then what's in front of us, the composition, everything's fucking perfect.

Down to, like we've been saying, just the static shots of a staircase, the fact that all of the lighting felt 100% natural. I don't know if it was fully natural lighting.

I'm sure they had some at least makeup lights around set, but God damn, it just looked like it was the sun coming through the windows. It never felt like it was lit.

It felt like they were just kind of like Jean Marc Vallee in Dallas Buyers Club just takes advantage of the natural lighting.

Kyle: 00:51:24

Yeah.

Seth: 00:51:26

So, yeah, overall, it's a resounding yes on all fours. Categories.

Kyle: 00:51:31

Bam, bam, bam.

Seth: 00:51:33

All right.

Marianna: 00:51:33

Acting. Yes.

Seth: 00:51:36

Yes.

Marianna: 00:51:38

Writing. Directing. Fuck, yes. Composition. Fuck, yes. Done. No, I'm just kidding. I don't want to, like, Go on and on.

But like composition, that's my favorite category.

Seth: 00:51:51

Yeah.

Marianna: 00:51:52

Wow. Wow. What a way to put together a movie. That was a movie, man, that was really telling a story.

Seth: 00:52:00

100%.

Kyle: 00:52:01

Yeah.

Marianna: 00:52:01

Just love, love a gestalt. Love a gestalt moment. You know what I mean? Love getting to use the word gestalt.

Kyle: 00:52:07

I got a bunch of gestalt therapy. Is that the same thing?

Marianna: 00:52:09

I don't know.

Kyle: 00:52:10

Yeah.

Marianna: 00:52:11

The only thing I've ever learned. That's the only thing I learned in art school. You're totally honest. But yeah. Yeah. Honestly. Yes.

Kyle: 00:52:19

Fuck.

Marianna: 00:52:19

Ton all categories.

Kyle: 00:52:21

Firestorms, Fire Budget. Yeah. You got your own scales.

Marianna: 00:52:25

I forgot the scales and I need to.

Seth: 00:52:28

We got this Babadook.

Kyle: 00:52:30

All right. No acting. Wow. Just trying not to be recent bias.

And you know, you know, I'm not trying to exaggerate, but this Essie Davis's performance here is memorable. It will, it will stay with me for a long time. A lot of it was not even verbal for me.

A lot of what I loved about this performance was the words she didn't say, the eyes, the facial expressions, her physicality here for, for an actress that didn't do a lot of physical things towards, until, towards the end, she was communicating so much non verbally in the office at the school, sitting in the front seat while our son's having a freaking panic attack and all these things. I just.

Seth: 00:53:08

Bam.

Kyle: 00:53:08

You nailed it, Essie. And good work writing. And we'll lump writing, directing together. Same person. I thought the, the dialogue. I literally. You said no notes.

I don't have a single thing I can say here other than maybe an eye roll at the end. A good ending, not a great ending. A little bit of an eye roll.

Seth: 00:53:25

I think it's supposed to be a little, little cheeky, though.

Kyle: 00:53:27

A little cheeky. Outside of that dialogue written for Sam, written for all the characters, especially the sister. The way the sister was written was very real.

Marianna: 00:53:36

Yeah.

Kyle: 00:53:36

I loved all of it.

Marianna: 00:53:38

Yeah.

Kyle: 00:53:38

In terms of film composition, what's in front of us again? I already bragged on the still shots.

Those were my favorite parts of the movie were just those silent moments to breathe, looking at the house, just random objects being just, you know, framed perfectly. Just perfect framing. All on a tiny budget. 1.8, 1.3, whatever million dollars.

Again, you know me, I always love a good story where they have no money and they just, just knock it out of the park. I, I, I watch. I, I just didn't think it was going to be that low of a budget.

Seth: 00:54:07

Yeah.

Kyle: 00:54:07

I just thought there was enough really great cinematography and imagery here to push this higher.

Seth: 00:54:13

Yeah.

Kyle: 00:54:13

And when I saw the budget, I was shocked.

Seth: 00:54:14

Yeah. It felt like a five million dollar movie.

Kyle: 00:54:17

Yeah. And so. And I thought, even though it's not really even a criticism, that the monster was the least scariest part of me.

I think it actually speaks to how well written it is that the psychological impact of the dark side of parenting was actually more horrifying than the way it was physically represented by the monster.

Seth: 00:54:32

Yeah.

Kyle: 00:54:32

I think it speaks in. Hey, buddy. We're becoming friends. It only took you a year. Love you. Anyway. Clean sweep.

Seth: 00:54:40

Yeah.

Kyle: 00:54:41

Wow.

Seth: 00:54:41

100% masterful movie.

Kyle: 00:54:44

Happy October. Ish. Halloween.

Seth: 00:54:46

And now we have an incredibly beautiful announcement. Like we said, this is the season finale of season one for Movie Wars. We do have a few more episodes coming out.

We've got Peter Murphy coming out with Prey, which I'm very excited to put that episode out. That was a very fun one to do.

Kyle: 00:55:05

Yes.

Seth: 00:55:05

We're gonna be doing a Thanksgiving and Christmas special. I'm not gonna tell you what they are. You gotta come back and view them. But those will be releasing in November and December respectively.

And then finally, the one I'm very excited about. Ladies and gentlemen, Mariana Barksdale is going to be joining us as our semi permanent third guest for next season.

Every now and then we're going to be pulling in some people, like Dustin Chafin or Peter Murphy or some other bigger comics.

Marianna: 00:55:33

Famous people.

Seth: 00:55:34

But we are very excited to have Mariana on for every other episode. I'm so excited. I think it's going to bring a very good vibe to the podcast.

Kyle: 00:55:43

It was an easy decision to make.

Seth: 00:55:45

So easy. Best guest of the year. Absolutely.

Kyle: 00:55:48

Yeah. And we have a lot of amazing guests. It's not shitting on anyone else. It's just. And yeah.

And honestly, for those that were here for the first rendition, I was telling Seth, I was like, we were just, you know, we're constantly looking at the show. How do we keep improving? As like, one thing I missed was when I started the show, it was the same three people all the time.

And we're gonna have guests and I think it keeps it fresh. But I was like, there is really something to be said for chemistry and like having momentum with and. And like I said, amazing guests.

But we love the chemistry with you.

Seth: 00:56:16

You're hilarious. You know what you're talking. Informed.

Kyle: 00:56:19

You know a lot about movies and you're an actress.

Seth: 00:56:21

Yeah.

Kyle: 00:56:21

And a comedian and all the things. So welcome. We're stoked to have you.

Marianna: 00:56:24

I'm so excited. You have no idea.

Before I got here, I was like, I really hope at some point I get to do this more often, but I also don't like to be pushy about anything in my life at all, so.

Seth: 00:56:34

Well, here we are. Yeah.

Kyle: 00:56:35

Yep.

Marianna: 00:56:36

So excited.

Kyle: 00:56:36

And on that note, go celebrate. Go get some candy corn. It's October.

Seth: 00:56:40

Get ready for Thanksgiving, get ready for Christmas, and then we will see you back full time in the new year. Can't wait.

Kyle: 00:56:48

Love y'.

Marianna: 00:56:48

All.

Seth: 00:56:49

That's Kyle. Kyle, I'm Seth and Mariana. See you soon.

Kyle: 00:56:56

Movie Wars.