The Patriot with Joel Beasley
In this episode, we dive headfirst into The Patriot, Roland Emmerich’s Revolutionary War epic that’s equal parts emotional drama and historical fan fiction. With Joel back in the saddle—host of the Modern CTO podcast and longtime friend of the show—the Movie Wars crew unpacks the film’s sweeping themes of loyalty, sacrifice, and revenge, while calling out the historical liberties that might make your AP History teacher weep.
We take a hard look at Mel Gibson’s Benjamin Martin, a character caught between brutal vengeance and reluctant heroism, and we show love to standout performances from Heath Ledger and Jason Isaacs. But we don’t stop at performances—we tackle the moral gray areas of war and how the film navigates (or dodges) them, especially when it comes to the more sanitized and fictionalized aspects of Revolutionary War atrocities.
The debate gets real as we wrestle with the ethical tightrope filmmakers walk when turning historical events into popcorn fare. Does emotional storytelling justify bending the truth? And what impact does that have on how we remember the past?
Takeaways:
- We break down the historical inaccuracies in The Patriot and why they matter when portraying real-world events.
- Despite the creative liberties, we were surprised by the film’s emotional punch and storytelling power.
- Mel Gibson and Heath Ledger’s performances anchor the film, giving it unexpected emotional weight.
- The episode challenges listeners to think critically about how war is portrayed in film—where entertainment and truth collide.
- We reflect on the responsibility filmmakers have when telling stories rooted in real history.
- The cinematography and visual storytelling in The Patriot add to its impact, even as it stretches historical fact.
Transcript
Foreign.
Kyle:Ladies and gentlemen, welcome back to the Movie wars podcast. I'm Kyle.
Seth:I'm Seth.
Speaker D:I'm Joel.
Seth:We got him back.
Kyle:We're so lucky to have Joel back. If you knew how we filmed these things. He never left. He was right there on the couch. He was like, let's go, baby.
And we're going with the Patriot today.
Seth:Roland Emmerich Part two.
Joel:Yeah.
Kyle:That was completely unintentional.
Seth:It was hilarious because we came up with. With the themes for each month. And then two weeks before we shoot, he sends me a message. He's like, bro. He directed both of them.
Joel:Yeah.
Kyle:I was like, how did you do? I was like, did you know that? And he didn't. I was like, but you said. So for both of us, this was the first time we'd both seen it.
What were your impressions?
Speaker D:I loved it.
Joel:Yeah.
Speaker D:Yeah. I thought it was good.
Speaker E:This.
Seth:I watched it for the first time back in college and it's held up. Here's outside of Stargate, which it looks like Stargate was kind of an anomaly for Roland Emmerich. I think he.
He seems to be at his best when he's scaled down effects wise, when he is really just focusing on a story that. That has emotion at the center of it. That's just a big spectacle of whatever it is. So, yeah, I loved it. I thought it was so good.
Kyle:Yeah, I. I was really surprised with how much I like it. I'm not a big war movie guy and it's not because.
It's not because I don't like them typically, but for some reason, like, the way that you should react to a horror movie is the way I react to war movies. It's just because knowing it's based on real stuff and even though this was extremely hyperbolic. Oh, yeah. I was.
Seth:I had questions about, like, how accurate the story is for.
Kyle:Saying they took creative liberties is a. That's a nice way to say it.
Seth:From the little bit of research I did. And I obviously like to leave more of the research up to you because I like discovering things while.
Kyle:Sure.
Seth:But the little bit of research I did said that there is almost nothing historically accurate about the story itself. But when you look at the battles and even down to the.
The warfare aspect of it, that is like, some of the most accurate that's ever been captured on screen.
Joel:Yep.
Speaker D:Was it really?
Speaker E:Yeah.
Joel:Yeah.
Speaker D:So that's how they used to do wars.
Seth:Yes.
Speaker D:What are you doing? How is Ambush not day one?
Kyle:Yeah, yeah. Imagine if criminals operated like that in, like, modern day, like, There was a, like a high speed chase and then like they all just line up.
The cops on one side and the criminal on the other.
Speaker E:Oh yeah.
Speaker D:Did you guys, did you guys catch. They kept poking at the French in this movie.
Seth:Oh yeah.
Speaker D:I kept thinking the French were going to show up and like help them win it or something.
Seth:I mean, they do at the one point, but.
Speaker D:Do they?
Seth:Yeah, yeah, yeah. That big battle near the end where it's just the.
Because, because, yeah, the French guy is with them and then there's a couple of people in French uniforms, but they're basically like, oh, look, there's the militia.
Joel:Yeah.
Seth:So they go after the militia and that's when Mel Gibson and all his guys run over the hill. And then when they come over the hill, that's the French army.
Speaker D:That's the French.
Seth:That's the French army there and the French battleship.
Speaker D:And that makes more sense to me now.
Seth:That's where I'm like, they got some things. So right. When it comes to historical accuracy of the battles themselves in the warfare, because that's what happened.
We waited for years before the French finally showed up. And my friend Mario was texting me about this because I told him we were doing this.
And he's a history fanatic, especially when it comes to the different battles in U.S. history.
And he was telling me he thinks that one of the greatest things about the American Revolutionary War is the fact that it was basically won because Benjamin Franklin went to France and hoed himself out for a couple years.
Speaker D:Sounds right.
Seth:He fucked his way through the French like government to basically get the army over to the U.S. wow.
Kyle:Yeah, they should have put that. That should have been the movie.
Seth:Yeah, that's a different movie. That is, that's the Ben Franklin or not Ben Franklin, John Adams that deals with a lot of that.
Joel:Yeah.
Kyle:They could have called it Benjamin Franklin's lightning rod.
Speaker D:That's why he's on the $1 bill, right?
Kyle:Oh my God.
Joel:Yeah.
Seth:President Benjamin Franklin.
Joel:Yeah.
Kyle:But where this movie wasn't historically accurate. Accurate. Speaking of lightning, it did attract some negative attention.
Seth:Oh, I'm sure.
Kyle:In two major areas. First of all, the British were very upset because they won because we won.
Speaker D:Because we won. Because we won.
Kyle:That's right. That's why we don't eat fish and chips.
Speaker D:Yeah.
Kyle:But they apparently they, the atrocities were where, where they felt it was over exaggerated. It's not that they're saying we didn't commit bad act or anything, but apparently like the church burning was like kind of the final Straw.
They were like that. That didn't happen. So.
Seth:Yeah, so yeah, that's. That was some things that I was disappointed with because it's like if you.
They already did some horrible during that war, it's not hard to make them bad.
Joel:Yeah.
Seth:You didn't have to add some. And yeah, for the moment, like it tugs at the heartstrings. Like it is an incredibly emotional moment.
But yeah, when you're dealing with history and even if this is historical fiction, I don't like taking that much creative liberty with it.
You can take some creative liberty with the emotions of the characters you've created, but don't just add what would have been such a historically important massacre if that had happened.
Speaker D:Well, it also might have just not been his aim.
Speaker E:Yeah.
Speaker D:His objective might have just been in, in I walking away from the movie, I would believe that the director's objective.
Speaker E:Yeah.
Speaker D:Was for you to walk away with a sense that war is horrible and your family dies and that creates anger and then you go kill their family and then it's a never ending cycle of doom.
Speaker E:Yeah.
Joel:Yeah.
Speaker D:It's got to stop at some point.
Seth:One of my favorite aspects of how the warfare was showcased throughout the movie was whenever they would just be inside their home and a battle would be happening in the front yard. Yeah, but like everyone just has the respect of don't shoot the house. Like we're fighting each other.
Don't shoot over there, but we'll use your front, we'll use your land. Like we're gonna, we're gonna murder each other on your property, but we won't shoot your house until afterwards.
Kyle:Hit this guy with a garden gnome.
Speaker E:Yeah.
Kyle:Another element of this that was highly criticized especially from like Spike Lee, for example. Spike Lee took major issue with how slaves were were.
They basically said it aggrandized how, how they treated him, made it seem like they treated him better than they did.
Seth:You sort of alluded to it earlier, but what the fuck was warfare in this period of time? So you look at it historically, guns have been around for at least a couple hundred years. Okay.
How stupid is it that with firearms they were still just like, no, we're just going to go into an open field and shoot each other? Like, at least in the Civil War, a lot of it was in the woods. You could hide behind trees and stuff.
Speaker D:Like paintball.
Seth:Yeah, but this was such a weird. And I mean, obviously I know this is how it happened. Like, I'm not blaming Roland Emmerich on this one for his depiction of warfare.
That's how they did it. And it's like they still had this mentality of we're using swords because a couple guys were still using swords.
But it's like, why are we just standing in a line? Why aren't we even trying to spread it out a little bit?
Speaker D:And when he was like, you shouldn't shoot the generals or the higher ranking people. It's not okay to shoot them.
Joel:Yeah.
Speaker D:I was like, whoa, this feels like watching like a football game.
Seth:Yeah, you privileged, don't shoot the general. Oh, okay. No, shoot him first.
Speaker D:That's how we know olden time. People were stupid.
Seth:Yeah, it's true.
Joel:Yeah, yeah, I know.
Kyle:I was. That was the biggest head scratcher. And did your buddy, did he speak to the lineup and like how that like was.
Seth:There was no rules. Rules of engagement. Watch that 45 minute video I sent you.
Kyle:I haven't, I didn't get a chance to.
Seth:Yeah, that's probably what explains what was going on there. I just.
Speaker E:Yeah, it.
Seth:Yeah, it, it infuriates me so much.
Joel:Yeah.
Kyle:And what's funny to me is you said the word ambush earlier. It's like. And they didn't even innovate the ambush.
Like for them an ambush was still like having this forward facing battle, but luring people farther to your side. That wasn't even an ambush. It was like literally we got more people downhill.
Seth:It's just a little hill. And you think the guys up on the other hill, further that way would have been like, it looks like there's some people back there.
Kyle:And so they just fire the cannonballs as an intimidation thing because while they're marching to the, the battleground, they're firing cannonballs and hitting grass that like they're.
Speaker D:Letting you know about where they're going to hit.
Seth:I have never fully understood cannonballs outside of shooting ships or walls.
Kyle:Pirates.
Joel:Yeah.
Speaker E:Yeah.
Seth:Because like, because it, they made it look like the cannonballs were exploding when they hit the ground.
Speaker D:And I don't know, I was just hitting the dirt.
Speaker E:Yeah.
Seth:Maybe we need to sit down and do a separate episode with Mario that's just called what the fuck. The Patriots.
Joel:Yeah, he could.
Kyle:War correspondent.
Speaker E:Yeah.
Speaker D:But did you see the cannonball taking out some dude's legs?
Kyle:And a head took a head off that.
Seth:That. Now that's where I think Roland Emrick does solid with adding a little touch of special effects and stuff like that.
Speaker D:I have a question for you. Okay. You guys are always.
Joel:Yeah.
Speaker D:Rate stuff. Head shots. There was two crazy good head shots in the Movie. One was with a hatchet, one was with a cannonball. Which is better. Oh, I mean, headshot.
Hatchet headshot.
Seth:I mean, if we're talking strictly visually, I think the cannonball was the coolest headshot in the whole situation.
Speaker D:It was cute because it bounced first.
Speaker E:Yeah, yeah.
Seth:However, in terms of brutality, obviously the hatchet wins. Like, God damn, that is just brutal. Some of the hatchet work in this is what I was expecting from the Northman when the first trailer came out.
Joel:Yeah.
Seth:Like, that's. I was expecting that level of just like ninja ness with. With a hatchet.
Joel:Yeah.
Seth:Which. That scene where he now, like, becomes known as the ghost.
Joel:Yeah.
Seth:What an incredible scene.
Speaker D:It was the first time I've ever seen a safety shot with a hatchet.
Speaker E:Yeah.
Kyle:Yeah.
Speaker D:You guys know safety shot?
Joel:No.
Speaker D:Okay. When the body's already dead or it looks appears to be dead, they put a second round, right.
Kyle:Oh, that's what that's called.
Speaker D:Yeah. Safety shot.
Seth:Double tap.
Kyle:Oh, yeah.
Speaker D:You can get in trouble for it in some states.
Joel:Really?
Speaker E:Yeah.
Kyle:How do they know? I guess they have to do. They can do analysis on you watch.
Speaker D:The video, you know, security camera footage.
Joel:Yeah.
Speaker D:So, like, if you kill someone, like, if you shoot them, just make sure to continuously pull.
Speaker E:Yeah.
Speaker D:The trigger until the entire clips gone.
Because if you shoot them like twice and then walk over and look at them and then do a headshot, you can get in more trouble than just unloading the clip.
Seth:You know, that, that.
Speaker D:Actually, I learned that when I bought these boots. That was like a requirement. Like, if you're going to wear these boots.
Joel:Yeah.
Speaker D:You need to at least know this.
Kyle:Those are patriot boots right there.
Joel:Yeah.
Speaker E:Yeah.
Seth:When I got these shoes, I was asked which barbecue is the best.
Joel:Oh, yeah, yeah.
Seth:That was the test.
Speaker D:Bucky.
Seth:They are. They are Bucky's branded shoes.
Speaker D:You know, there's a Bucky's podcast.
Seth:I'm not surprised, but I didn't know that. Now.
Kyle:I went to my first Buc EE's after I started eating Carnivore and it was. I just was like.
Speaker E:Yeah.
Kyle:I was so frustrated.
Seth:They have a whole beef jerky counter, though.
Kyle:It all has sugar, though.
Seth:Yeah.
Speaker D:Oh, dude, they sneak so much sugar into beef jerky.
Kyle:Crazy. Like, brown sugar. Some of them had corn syrup. Some of the Bucky's jerky has corn syrup in it.
Seth:Interesting.
Speaker D:Bucky needs to get healthy.
Kyle:Come on, Bucky's.
Seth:It's Texas. It's never going to.
Kyle:But dude, some of the desserts and the brownies and stuff. I'M like, what are they doing in here?
Seth:Their brisket sandwiches are incredible.
Kyle:It looks amazing. Like, why did I wait till I quit eating food to come here?
Speaker D:Go there to buy a kayak Now.
Kyle:So this is a less comedic question, but how. How insightful was that quote? And it was. It hit me really hard. And then afterwards, like, that's one of the best movie quotes ever.
He's like, why would I trade. What did he say? Why would I trade one tyrant for one tyrant 3,000 miles away for 3,000 tyrants? One or.
Seth:No, that was basically for.
Kyle:For one tyrant. Why would I trade one tyrant 3,000 mile away for 3,000.
Seth:No. 3,000 tyrants one mile away.
Kyle:Yes, that's right. Yeah. Holy.
Seth:Yeah.
Speaker E:Yeah.
Speaker D:Did you.
Kyle:Surprise.
Speaker D:You got that out?
Kyle:Yeah, I'm gonna. I'm gonna have to re record myself saying it.
Seth:Yeah, just. Just bad adr, like the guy from the last movie. You just. Why would I trade one tyrant 3,000 miles away for 3,000 tyrants one mile away?
Kyle:You know what? I'm gonna re. I'm gonna re record it because it was so good. All right, hold on. Get myself a marker here. All right, last question. So the.
I don't know if this guy's hit you as hard as it did hit me. It hit me really hard. This quote. Why should I trade one tyrant 3,000 miles away for 3,000 tyrants one mile away?
Speaker E:He did it.
Seth:He did it. I'm proud of you. Yeah, I'm proud of you. I better not cut any of that.
Speaker D:This around.
Seth:Yeah, you got my joke.
Speaker D:I made stuff.
Kyle:Oh, yeah, you're right. No, I leave and I leave and I always. I actually leave myself saying I'm going to cut stuff out of the podcast that I don't ever cut out.
Seth:Good.
Kyle:But did that kick you in the gut?
Seth:Absolutely. That was great. My. The one that really stood out to me, other than that one was in the same meeting when.
When he's just like, I would not go to fight, so I will not vote to send others to fight in my stead. I thought coming. Coming from that perspective of if I'm not willing to do it myself, I will not vote to send other people to do it.
Speaker D:That was manly.
Seth:That was responsible.
Speaker D:That was honor.
Seth:I wish that was the attitude of our politicians today of like, hey, if I'm not gonna go with you, like, say what you will about Ukraine and that whole war going over there. Something I've completely respect about Vladimir Zelensky is the fact that he was on the front lines for so long.
Kyle:Right.
Seth:Like he was out with his army, like saying, no, we're going to do this. I know he's not currently, but like, he, he was one of the first people out.
Speaker D:Did anyone ever look into the validity of that video of him, like singing and dancing, playing the piano with his penis?
Kyle:Yeah, he played the piano with his dick.
Seth:Yeah. He was a stand up comedian before.
Speaker D:No way.
Seth:Yeah, 100%.
Speaker D:So that wasn't fabricated?
Seth:No, that's real.
Speaker D:Oh, my gosh. Yeah.
Seth:No, he was a stand up and actor. He actually. I'm pretty sure he's the voice of Paddington Bear in. In the Ukrainian version.
Speaker E:Yeah.
Kyle:That's hilarious.
Speaker D:They literally picked an actor.
Kyle:He's doing the Ukrainian catch, calling you. Well, I, you know, it's in this quote. Hit me because I, I have no political affiliation. I'm just. I'm hyper informed and hypercritical.
That's how I describe myself. I. My wife and I. And my wife doesn't lean super political, but she's got more political. Over the years, as we've had kids, as you know, that kind of.
Speaker D:That's the only. I was apolitical.
Joel:Yeah.
Speaker D:You know what I'm saying?
Kyle:Having kids will make you pay attention.
Speaker D:Yeah, that's it.
Kyle:And my wife was just kind of like, wow. Even though it's a piece of fiction based on reality, she was like, how far have we fallen from this concept, this purity of that pursuit of freedom?
And like now we just have so much like the lobbyist and the.
Speaker E:Yeah.
Kyle:Just. It's just.
Speaker E:Yeah, we.
Kyle:It was a good idea for 10 years pretty much. You know, and it was like, oh, my God.
Seth:But think after John Quincy Adams, things kind of went downhill a little bit.
Speaker D:Hey, at least we're not eating dog.
Kyle:That's true. That's true.
Speaker D:That was. That was my wife. I was watched. It was my wife. And when they said dog is a fine meal, she goes, that's my least favorite part. Yeah, she loves dogs.
Kyle:Rando, I don't think you've done the call. I don't. I know.
Joel:I.
Kyle:Sometimes I'm just like, maybe you need to seek your independence.
Seth:Yeah.
Joel:Yeah.
Kyle:Maybe you are. You're being oppressed by a government 3,000 miles away.
Maybe the only way to pass the time until they come over and tax you to death is listening to Movie Wars.
Seth:We want you to share Movie Wars.
Kyle:We want you to be free.
Seth:Point your finger. Point your finger, Kyle. Point your finger.
Kyle:We want you to misinterpret history.
Speaker E:Yes.
Kyle:To have bias towards this podcast.
Seth:Yes.
Kyle:Send Movie wars to your unfree.
Speaker D:And there's some money.
Kyle:Send us money.
Speaker D:Cash app.
Kyle:Seriously putting in work over here.
Speaker D:You guys have a cash app?
Kyle:We don't.
Speaker D:Cash app. Movie Wars. They'll have it by the time this.
Kyle:We're learning so much from this guy.
Joel:He's.
Kyle:He's the modern CTO Podcast. If you're in the tech world, like, I am. Amazing podcast. And yeah. Yeah, it's amazing.
Speaker D:We went from eating dog to plugging the show. That was a nice transition.
Kyle:That's what we. That's what we do.
Seth:What kind of Movie Wars.
Kyle:That's honestly what the joy of working with comedians is, is comedians, for all their faults, can just go, oh, yeah. With the flow, and they can shift and they can just. Okay, we're moving here now.
Speaker E:Yeah.
Kyle:Like, they're good at it.
Speaker D:Let's talk about bundling bags. So he can sex her. Did you see that? You see that? Did you see that?
Kyle:Oh, no.
Speaker D:When she, like, I was asking my wife, I was like, what is she doing? She's like, bundling bag. It's like, to keep him from having sex. And then the next scene, the wife and the husband. He was trying to listen in.
Joel:Yeah.
Speaker D:Creepy.
Kyle:That's amazing.
Speaker D:That's amazing. But she was like, oh, I can sew better than my mom. And I was like, yeah, he can just cut a hole, though.
Joel:Yeah, yeah.
Kyle:It's two things came to mind. First of all, a quote that Seth had when we were talking. I can't remember which movie, but you were like. You were.
You talked about how everything before the 60s probably just smelled bad.
Seth:Oh, yeah, Absolutely.
Because, yeah, I was rewatching Mad Men at the time and, like, watching how many cigarettes they were smoking, all of the drinking, and then, like, how. How fat some of them were. Just like. I'm sure the entire entire place smelled like.
Kyle:And just knowing that politicians wore wigs because usually it was an STD Related. Yeah. Losing their hair.
Seth:Well, it started that way. It started that way a couple hundred years before that turned into a fashion state.
Kyle:Yeah.
Speaker E:Okay.
Kyle:So it was not always that, but eventually it did.
Speaker D:But, you know, the dude that turned it into the fashion statement was suffering from the S. Oh, 100. He's like, how do I make this cool?
Seth:Yeah, yeah, it was. It was. French royalty back in the day would get.
Speaker D:Always the French. Yeah, yeah.
Seth:Oh, yeah. They're very fashion forward and usually have all the STDs. So. Yeah, there's a lot of overlap there.
Joel:Yeah.
Kyle:Nice coat. It's covering all my Open source.
Seth:Yeah.
Speaker E:Yeah.
Speaker D:Most up to date. STDs. See friends.
Kyle:Oh, Love it.
Seth:Nice cod piece, Rando. Rando.
Speaker D:I am not my sister. Second favorite line.
Kyle:So this movie, 110 million dollar budget and it made 215 worldwide.
Seth:That's it.
Joel:Yeah.
Seth:Interesting.
Joel:Yeah.
Kyle:It said it wasn't a record breaker like ID4, but it held its own for a hit historical drama.
Speaker E:Yeah.
Seth:I would be interested to kind of see the. The numbers behind historical movies like that because. Yeah, the.
s through the mid: Joel:Yeah.
Seth:You had so many of those. You had so many of those series, like the John Adams series that came out. Like there was a lot.
Speaker D:Okay. There is one change you could make to the movie that would triple revenue. Oh, just give one dude nar 15.
Joel:Yeah.
Speaker D:Just like. Right. And don't explain it, don't address it. Just the dude runs to the field.
Joel:Yeah.
Kyle:Or they've turned her syphilis that gave him the wigs into a bioweapon.
Speaker E:Yeah.
Joel:Yes.
Kyle:And the cannonballs are just filled with syphilis. This exploding syphilis.
Seth:That's. That's the next hipster band.
Kyle:Exploding syphilis or a bar in East Nashville.
Speaker E:Yeah.
Kyle:Hey, would anyone want to start a mic? You know. You know, immediately someone would start a mic at exploding syphilis.
Speaker D:You have to start a mic.
Joel:Yeah, yeah.
Kyle:You know, we'll do comedy anywhere.
Speaker D:Right after Grandpa's bar. Yeah, right next to Grandpa's Bar. Which.
Kyle:Which one of our comedy friends did a bit about we'll do comedy anywhere. Who. Who is that? Someone has a great bit about we'll do comedy anywhere. And they did a funny. I can't remember.
Seth:No idea.
Kyle:I wish I remember because we had. One of our comedians here has a great bit about doing comedy anywhere. Anyway, I think it's a gal rando. So this was a test of endurance.
This production ran over by 102 days. It was supposed to be 85. They had unusually bad weather and hot weather in South Carolina where they were filming.
And apparently, and I think this is verified, I found this from a few sources. The. They had a bunch of overheated reenactors as actors that were doing this. And that makes sense.
The only way they could get him to finish filming was Mel Gibson kept giving them like rousing speeches. And.
Joel:Yeah.
Kyle:And so apparently the. The way that they got through is Mel Gibson kept going to the stunt people and the reenactors and just like, come on, come on.
Speaker D:We can do it.
Kyle:Yeah.
Seth:Freedom.
Joel:Yeah.
Kyle:Channeling his inner William Wallace, it says from Braveheart.
Seth:So that's hilarious, man.
Joel:He.
Kyle:He. For a minute there, he was doing these movies, right, with Braveheart than this one.
Seth:Well, I mean, can we talk about how plot wise this is the exact same movie as Braveheart. Just. Just. Mel Gibson didn't die in this one.
Speaker D:I don't think we can talk about that.
Seth:But we can't, because it's 100% the same thing. A family member dies, he goes on a rampage, and then it's like, shit, I guess I'm a part of the war now. Like, it's the same movie.
Speaker D:All right. How do you guys feel about when the actors that you like, they start making political Instagram videos?
Seth:Oh, I hate all of them.
Speaker D:Like, even if they're on my side for the specific argument.
Seth:I don't want to hear about it.
Speaker D:I don't want to hear about it. I want you to do something. You're like, shut up and look good and act good.
Speaker E:Yeah.
Speaker D:And that's it.
Speaker E:Yeah.
Joel:Yeah.
Speaker D:I don't like it when people do that.
Kyle:We also just can't relate to, like, the. The worst. The. The mo. I didn't care for a long time until Covet.
Speaker E:Yeah.
Kyle:Coven's when it got to me because they were, like, doing selfie videos from their mansions.
Speaker E:Yeah. Stay home.
Kyle:And like, literally, like, Tommy Lee from Motley Crue has a Starbucks in his house.
Speaker D:Yeah.
Kyle:A literal. Not just a machine. He has a barista and a bar from Starbucks in his house. I'm like, yeah, stay home.
Speaker D:And they're sleeping slaves.
Kyle:Yeah, yeah, yeah, they are. That's Filipino slaves.
Speaker D:Yeah, that's factual.
Kyle:I'm like, I got four kids at home. It's like, you want me to stay here? Get me out of here. It's like, so the Patriot was Heath Ledger's breakout film.
So I think he had done some Australian films, some independent films, but he actually nearly blew us audition. He actually walked out in the middle of it and apologized for. And he. This was his quote, wasting everyone's time.
That is so hard to believe considering who Heath Ledger would become. And he told the writer of this film that he was insanely anxious to play across from Mel Gibson. He was very nervous.
Seth:Mel Gibson was the man at the time.
Joel:Yep, yep.
Kyle:Very well. But they were both Aussie, so he said. He said he became relaxed once he remembered that they were both Australians.
Seth:It is crazy that it was this. And then he did so many movies over the next eight years before he finally died.
Joel:Yeah.
Seth:Eight years after this. That's all it was.
Joel:Yeah.
Seth:That's crazy to think about.
Kyle:It's just crazy to think that at one point he. He was so nervous he walked out of an audition. Because, I mean, the Joker. I mean, it's.
It's cliche to even talk about it now, but that is the amount of the. The. I mean, I don't even know how to describe it.
Seth:The.
Kyle:I guess it's method. I guess you call it method acting. I mean, wow.
Seth:Have you seen the Imaginarium of Dr. Parnassus?
Joel:I want to.
Seth:We definitely need to do that at one point. It was done by the guy who did Brazil, Terry Gilliam, and it is masterfully done because he died in the middle of production. And so in order to.
To make it work within the story. And it's a really complicated story, but in the story, they keep going through these mirrors to other, like, dimensions.
And so they use three different actors to play Heath Ledger's character in these other dimensions.
Joel:Yeah.
Speaker E:Yeah.
Seth:Really, really creative way to get around it.
Speaker D:I did have a problem with the movie. A point in the movie. It's actually more of a question for comedy movie people.
Kyle:Okay, cool.
Speaker D:Okay. I couldn't tell if they were making a joke or if I just thought it was funny.
But when Gabriel Heath led it right when he was talking to the dad that couldn't hear very well. Hard of hearing dad. And he's like, do I have permission to write? And the look on his face was like. As if he said, do I have permission to ride? And.
Okay. Because that's what, like, he was given that confusion. And it just. I promise you, I really thought that.
That my wife says I'm wrong, which is probably right. But, yeah, I was like. I couldn't tell if they were trying to make a subtle joke.
Seth:See, I don't think. I don't think that was the joke. I think the joke there was like, that he.
He was kind of deaf, but could still hear because when Ann came in right after the word, she was like. You heard it.
Speaker D:So the joke was him pretending not to hear him.
Speaker E:Yeah.
Speaker D:Not. Not mishearing.
Speaker E:Yeah.
Speaker D:Okay.
Joel:Yeah.
Speaker D:It works both ways.
Joel:Yeah. Yeah.
Kyle:No, it's interesting. Mel Gibson. This is really interesting. So the really. The famous slow mo scene that you always see when people talk about the Patriot.
This is hilarious. That is not filmed in slow motion. That is Mel Gibson doing slow motion.
Seth:That makes so much sense because it was so weird to watch.
Kyle:Yeah, he wanted. It was his idea. He wanted the it says they wanted to roll the cameras at the end, right?
Joel:Yes.
Speaker E:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Kyle:He wanted to roll the cameras at normal speed, and he wanted to perform the slow motion himself because he thought it would have a better look.
Seth:And so that was a horrible decision.
Kyle:You think so? I didn't like it.
Seth:I, I, I. There were times I was this close to just stopping on all of the faces he was making.
Joel:Yeah.
Seth:And send you pictures because they were so ridiculous. Which is funny. He says that because I don't know if you guys knew this.
When he filmed the Passion of the Christ, almost no scene was shot at 24 frames a second. He purposefully shot everything at a higher frame rate so it would feel more, like, mystical and a little slower.
Joel:Yeah.
Seth:And so for him to just be like, no, we're gonna do this at normal frame rate, and I'm gonna act slow. I'm like, what are you doing? That's why it looked so weird. Okay.
Speaker D:He might have been on drugs.
Seth:Not. I would not be surprised.
Joel:Yeah.
Kyle:And it kind of just feels like a Mel Gibson idea.
Speaker E:Yeah.
Kyle:You know, I mean, this guy, I mean, he.
Seth:I'm not gonna say it ruined the movie, but it took me out of that moment, which should have been like, the penultimate, like, climax.
Joel:Yeah.
Kyle:He takes a lot of big risks, though. You know, he's a big risk taker. Like, Apocalypto was a huge risk. I mean, no one was like, no one wants to read subtitles the whole time.
Seth:Saying all that about the Jews on the, on the phone was a big risk.
Kyle:He's apologized. I think he's doing better these days. Shall we really war?
Seth:Let's do this.
Kyle:Shall we get our independence? Shall we trade one tyrant for 3,000 miles of tyrants from one mile of tyrants? So smooth away.
Speaker D:He should have a podcast.
Seth:Shall we, without explanation, make Donald Logue really racist at the beginning and then, like, totally accepting a black people at the end of the movie with no, no explanation in the middle?
Kyle:It was just Josh.
Joel:Yeah.
Seth:That moment totally did seem like he was overcompensating because he's just like, it's an honor to have you by my side.
Kyle:I know. That was honor. That was so unreal. That might have been why Spike Lee was pissed off. He, like, that would never have happened.
Seth:Well, probably that. And the moment where they're like, oh, we're all Freeman.
Joel:Yeah.
Seth:And. But also still kind of slaves.
Kyle:Like, we're still doing the same thing we were doing.
Seth:Yeah, it was, it was definitely a little weird.
Joel:Yeah.
Speaker D:Did you Guys, like at the end when he stabs him in the throat.
Seth:That was pretty great.
Speaker D:That was pretty nice.
Kyle:That was a good one.
Seth:Yeah, it was well done.
Kyle:All right, Top bill cast. And if. Yes. If you dig it, Blue coat. And if you didn't like it, red coat.
Seth:I like that.
Joel:That's.
Seth:That's probably the best one you've come up with.
Joel:Yeah, I like it.
Kyle:Yeah, I know.
Joel:Yeah.
Kyle:I. I can go overboard with these. I like the big, long quotes.
Speaker E:Yeah.
Kyle:Top bill cast. Here we go.
Speaker E:Here we go.
Kyle:Crazy to say this, but Mel Gibson, Heath Ledger, and Jolie Richardson. Jolie Richardson played Charlotte.
Speaker D:That was the sister.
Seth:Even the villain's not considered. What's his name? Jason Isaacs.
Joel:Yep.
Seth:Those are considered top bill.
Kyle:That's right. Those are the top three.
Seth:Interesting.
Speaker D:Who's that last one?
Kyle:Joey Richardson played Charlotte? Satan or sister?
Speaker E:Yeah.
Joel:Yep.
Speaker E:Yeah.
Seth:The. Not her. Not. Not her sister.
Joel:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Kyle:This one.
Joel:Yeah. Yeah.
Kyle:Charlotte.
Speaker D:I can't tell with her clothesline.
Kyle:The one I couldn't.
Joel:I could.
Kyle:The one I was trying to figure out, is this romance or incest? I was like, which one is this?
Speaker D:Which one is it?
Joel:Yeah, it was.
Speaker D:It was close.
Speaker E:Yeah.
Seth:No, I think everyone delivered Bluecoat all the way. I. I love that this is Heath Ledger's breakout role because he would.
He would take, I think, what he learned acting next to Mel Gibson for so long and really just take it to a whole other level with the movie. Movies he was doing after this because.
Joel:Yeah.
Seth:Not long after that, we had A Knight's Tale, then we had Brokeback Mountain, then we had Dark Knight. Like, hey, it's. Say what you will. That is one of the best love stories I've ever seen in my life, and I will stand by it forever.
But, yeah, Blue Coat all the Way. I think everybody delivered. This is. I would say this is probably one of Mel Gibson's top five performances ever.
Joel:Yeah.
Kyle:Yeah, that's. That's saying a lot, too.
Seth:It really is. It really is.
Kyle:He's one of my favorites.
Seth:His number one for me is. Is Rocky the rooster from Chicken Run.
Kyle:I haven't. Oh, I watched that with my kids. I didn't realize he was in that.
Seth:Yeah, he's. He's the rooster.
Kyle:Amazing.
Speaker E:Yeah.
Joel:Love that.
Kyle:I don't know how I didn't recognize that. Probably wasn't paying attention.
Seth:I didn't know until I was in my 20s.
Joel:Wow.
Speaker E:Yeah.
Speaker D:So not only was she beautiful, but her house was amazing.
Seth:Yes.
Joel:Yeah.
Speaker D:You guys see that house?
Seth:Colonial houses are so good.
Joel:Yeah.
Seth:Every Time I've gone back to colonial Williamsburg. I love just touring the houses that they have there.
Joel:Yeah.
Speaker D:So I say blue coat.
Kyle:Blue coat.
Joel:Yeah.
Kyle:You dig it? Yeah, I dig it too. And it's, it's funny. Heath Ledger is probably one of the biggest anomalies in acting to me because when I was.
The first time I remember experiencing him was 10 things I hate about you, which is a good movie, but it's very much a 90s teenish comedy Rom com movie. And he's doing fun stuff, but it's not a lot of range. But he was doing other movies that weren't necessarily like he.
tralian film that came out in: Speaker D:Is he method acting in that one too?
Kyle:I don't know. I don't know. I'm still. It's pretty nebulous about whether or not he was actually on drugs, wasn't it?
Seth:From what I could tell, it was pretty much the same cocktail that killed Michael Jackson. Like it was prescription drugs. It wasn't like heroin or anything like that.
Speaker D:Yeah, nothing too fancy.
Kyle:Yeah, nothing too fancy. But he was doing other things. But like while we're seeing him do these kind of mainstream roles, I was. I would still consider this very mainstream.
And it's good, but it's pretty. It's not quite to the level of what he did in the Joker yet.
Speaker E:Yeah.
Kyle:But he's doing other things outside of the country and other. And other markets that are very artistic, very creative. So it's weird how you like in. You're seeing it brew in international films, but American.
He gets cast very and or very mainstream, but then all of a sudden.
Joel:Joker.
Speaker E:Yeah.
Kyle:And it really blindsided me when I found out it was him and the Joker. I don't know if that's how you guys react. I was like, that's Heath Ledger.
Seth:That's how I found out who he like. That's the first time I ever heard of him.
Kyle:So I knew him from those other movies and I was like, that's not, that's not Heath Ledger. That's not 10 things I hate about you. The Patriot. Yeah, Ledger. And it's one of the, when I say it's one of the craziest stories, like I just.
Where did that jump? I mean he obviously always had that skill to him.
Speaker E:Yeah.
Seth:But it was also an eight year jump. You look like I said, I look at this as, like, the beginnings of him really getting to delve deep into a character. And he just of kind carried that.
And. And it grew exponentially.
Joel:Yeah.
Seth:Eight years even. Even though he only played in half the movie. Like, the character that he plays in the imaginarium of Dr. Parnassus is so in depth.
Like, it's really interesting.
Joel:Yeah.
Kyle:So, yeah, social quandaries aside with Mel Gibson, he's one of my favorites, both as an actor and a director. I think he's one of the most gifted actor directors. I mean, especially when it comes to directing movies you're in.
He didn't direct this one, but he's very gifted.
And I know socially he's, you know, not accepted at a wide pace anymore, but I. I don't think this is one of his top five movies, and I think he was great in it. So that speaks to his.
Seth:I don't think this is one of his top five movies. I do think it's one of his top five performances.
Kyle:That's what I mean.
Seth:But I. I definitely would say Braveheart with them being the exact same story. Yeah, Braveheart is a better film, and I think it's because he was acting and directing.
Kyle:See, I think Lethal Weapon, because I.
Seth:Still haven't seen any of those.
Kyle:Oh, well, he's. He's both insane and hilarious, but he's actually.
He actually in the first couple of those movies, like, you actually think he has a serious mental illness and that he's actually suicidal. But he's also hilarious. But he's also a badass. Yeah, like the balance of those. And part of it's because in real life, he is a crazy guy.
I mean, that's why, like, he was a film.
Seth:Tom Cruise does so good.
Joel:Yeah.
Kyle:He was cast in Mad Max as a film student because he probably was like, oh, he's got a weird look in his eyes. I think he's big at Mad Max, but. Blue coat. I belched. Sorry.
Speaker D:Blue coat.
Kyle:Blue code one to zero. And let's go to the supporting cast. Here we go. We got Jason Isaacs as Colonel William Tavington. Chris Cooper. Harry. Sorry, I belched again.
Chris Cooper is Colonel Harry Burwell. Can you not even pronounce this name? Chiquige, Kyrio, Gene Villa. We're just gonna skip that because no one knows who that is.
I'm looking for names that people know. Adam Baldwin as Captain Wilkins at Baldwin brother. And if you don't know that Baldwin Brother, that's probably a good thing.
Speaker E:Yeah.
Kyle:Because if you know the Baldwin brother, it's probably for something atrocious.
Seth:Yeah, Usually. Usually we gotta mention Donald Logue. He's fantastic.
Joel:Yep.
Speaker E:Yeah.
Kyle:All right, let's go. Supporting cast. What do we think?
Seth:Yeah, I think they live up. I think they. They did a very good job at matching the. The main cast in this. I think it's.
I think it's stupid that we're considering Jason Isaacs to be supporting gas because he carried the half of that movie.
Speaker E:He.
Seth:His character, historical inaccuracies aside, his character is menacing as you. You look at him and you see the craziness in his eyes and the hatred in his eyes. It's. He does so good.
I would almost give this a blue coat just for him. But I genuinely think everybody brought something unique to whatever their role was.
Even despite the poor writing of just Donald Logue randomly being like, I'm not racist anymore.
Kyle:Yeah.
Seth:I still think good. What he was given, he did to the best of his abilities. So for me, it's a blue coat all the way around.
Kyle:I have a funny retort to your. Your questioning and whether or not he's top billcast. So there's two ways to look at top bill cast.
Top bill literally means they're at the top of the poster, Right. So there's that. And then highest paid. So he wasn't the highest paid. And here's the movie poster. So.
Seth:So Mel Gibson's the only top bill gas then. So.
Kyle:Yeah, look at that. I mean, just literally for the camera, I got to. Yeah, it's for.
Seth:And I know it's subjective, but for me, the way I usually look at it is like. Are you within the first five names of the opening credits?
Joel:Yeah. Yeah.
Seth:But whatever it is, what do you think?
Speaker D:I liked the. I liked this for the supporting characters. I liked the bad guy.
Speaker E:Yeah.
Speaker D:Because he was like a Malfoy where, like, I genuinely hate him is a Malfoy.
Seth:Like if he plays Lucius Malfoy in Harry Potter Potter.
Speaker D:Nah.
Speaker E:Yeah.
Joel:Whoa.
Seth:He is Draco Malfoy's father in Harry Potter 100.
Speaker D:Wait, wait, same guy.
Seth:Jason Isaacs.
Speaker D:So he just got older.
Joel:Yeah.
Speaker D:That's the same dude.
Speaker E:Yeah.
Speaker D:That plays Malfoy as a kid in Harry.
Seth:No, no, no, that plays the father, Lucius Malfoy.
Speaker D:Oh, okay. Okay.
Seth:That's him.
Speaker D:Yeah.
Kyle:He's crazy.
Speaker D:It's like, I see them and I know that if I ran into him at a cocktail party, I'd be like, you are evil.
Speaker E:Yeah.
Seth:Oh, yeah.
Speaker D:Like, and I would stay far away. How do those people date?
Seth:They find other evil people.
Speaker D:That makes so much sense.
Speaker E:Yeah.
Seth:You ever seen like the two worst people, you know, and then they find each other and get together. You're like, you know, that makes sense. Yeah.
Kyle:They just generate evil.
Speaker E:Yeah.
Kyle:I go blue coat and I just. I just think there's just not a missed beat. I think sometimes it's easy with these.
We did a movie recently too where there was like a lot of, like battle. You know, there's just a lot of extras, a lot of people doing things.
Speaker E:Yeah.
Kyle:You know, there's some funny stuff. Like the guy all of a sudden not being racist.
Speaker E:Yeah.
Kyle:You know, there's some little things like that also. Is this incest or not? Like, there's some stuff in there that I'm like, I don't know what's actually happening.
Speaker E:Yeah.
Kyle:But for the most part, there's a lot of. They. They manage for having such a big cast and a lot of things going on to inject personality.
Speaker E:Yeah.
Kyle:And I always think that's respectable. This movie didn't feel over long to me either. And so I think they spent just enough time developing side characters and supporting characters to.
To make it interesting. And I admire that because. What was my.
One of my biggest criticisms of a lot of movie like that we just did Independence Day is like, I just needed someone to take a step forward and just be like, that's someone I can go for. They're not a major character, they're not a top bill. But just someone I can kind of get into.
Speaker E:Yeah.
Kyle:And this movie had a lot of those.
Seth:I will say, I think Roland Emmerich is also really good at getting good performance. Is that a kids. Because that moment when the daughter finally speaks and is like, papa, don't go. Like, what do I have to say to make you stay amazing.
Kyle:I was in tears as a father. I was just like, dear God, I'm.
Seth:Not even a father as far as I know. And. And I literally was just like bawling my eyes last night when I was watching and I was like, oh, my God, she's so good. Like, why.
Why do you have to go, Papa?
Speaker D:Have you guys done click yet?
Kyle:Not yet, no.
Joel:We.
Kyle:We just had Nick Swartzen on. He's in that.
Speaker E:Yeah.
Speaker D:Oh, is he. Did he come over here?
Kyle:No, we did it digitally.
Speaker E:Yeah.
Speaker D:Good. Yeah.
Kyle:Because the couch you don't think you'd like.
Joel:You gotta.
Kyle:You're the first person to ever have qualms at the Emerald Couch.
Seth:I think it's a you thing.
Kyle:Big couch guy, huh?
Speaker E:Yeah, yeah.
Kyle:Bring your own next time. Yeah, yeah. Can you imagine? Just every time he does the show, he brings a couch.
Speaker D:I would just annoy you because I would just order one on Amazon and have it shipped.
Seth:You respect the couches until you get married.
Kyle:Furniture is an afternoon afterthought. I know, dude, it is 2 to 0. We are riding the blue coats here. The blue. The blue coat tails. So writing.
And this is interesting, and this may, this may impact our answers a little bit, but there's some pedigree here because Robert, Let me see his last name, Rodot, wrote this. He also wrote Saving Private Ryan and he wrote Fly Away Home, Thor, the Dark World and Following Skies.
But him writing Save it, Private Ryan, that's interesting. He's got a. He's got a penchant for war movies.
Seth:Yeah, I was gonna say clearly, clearly appreciates a good. A good battle scene. I'm gonna have to go redcoat on this because. Simply because of the massive historical inaccuracies in the emotion of the story.
Joel:Yeah, I.
Seth:For me, when it comes to any type of historical movie, you've gotta nail it.
You cannot just half ass, like, come up with what would have been, like I said, insanely huge cultural massacres, like burning an entire city in their church or in their courthouse. Like, you can't add that stuff and, and not. And then be mad when people get mad at you about it. Like, yeah, I.
So I've got to give it a red coat on this. Yeah, you had some good lines.
Like, we had some, some memorable moments, but overall, I think he did not pay enough attention to the history, especially considering how every World War II veteran that saw Saving Private Ryan said it was 100 accurate.
Kyle:Same for Platoon.
Speaker E:Yeah.
Joel:Yeah.
Kyle:And I, I was wanting to respond to that point too. We have an interesting kind of tolerance level for inaccuracies in war movies.
Speaker E:Yeah.
Kyle:Like, it's almost like World War II is off limits.
Speaker E:Yeah.
Kyle:Like, you better get that right.
Speaker E:Yeah.
Kyle:But Vietnam. Yeah, it's like Francisco can just turn it into an acid infused.
Yeah, just, you know, with Vietnam, we don't mind people taking creative liberties because for the most part, we all agreed it was a show.
Speaker E:Yeah.
Kyle:So why not make a movie that makes it seem even worse than it was?
Seth:Yeah.
Kyle:So, but World War II, but Revolutionary War, it's just like, yeah, it was a long time ago.
Speaker E:Yeah.
Seth:But even then, like, that kind of toes the line because, I mean, clearly it only made double its budget.
Joel:Right.
Seth:Which by today's standards would barely Be considered breaking. Yeah.
Speaker D:But I would never make a movie choice on, like, was it factually accurate?
Joel:Yeah.
Speaker D:Was it historically accurate?
Kyle:Yeah. What's your answer? Go ahead, lead off with that.
Speaker D:Well, I think it's a feature, not a bug. I like it. I'm blue code on this. I think that his point and his aim was to position your. The forgetting curve, the.
The rate at which you forget information and what you'll remember day one versus day 90 versus 180. So if you look at that when you design talks or anything like that, you're like, okay, what was. What's the thing I want them to remember in 90 days?
Speaker E:Yeah.
Speaker D:Because they're gonna remember one point he drilled that home. War is bad.
Speaker E:Yeah.
Speaker D:And he took liberties and he made crap up and he did. But at the end of the day, you walk away. He's going to leave the most people.
The largest impact the film will have on society at large is remembering war is bad.
Seth:But I think Star wars did the same thing. Like, like, but if you're going to.
Speaker D:Do something historical, was Star wars historically accurate?
Joel:It was.
Seth:Yeah, exactly. It was.
Joel:Absolutely.
Seth:But that's the point I'm making is sure, if. But there's so much other stuff that happened during the Revolutionary War that makes that point you don't have to make.
Speaker D:Star wars is weak.
Seth:I don't disagree with that statement at all. But that's my point is that I think a weaker movie made that point exactly the same way.
If you're going to make a historical movie, don't up the historical parts of it. Like, that's the whole backbone is you're trying to tell stories.
Speaker D:Historical movie, Abs.
Seth:Yeah, it's safe. It's literally the. The War for Independence. Like, it's. Just because it's historical fiction doesn't mean you can get the. The history wrong.
The fiction part is. Yes. I've created this character that lives very passionate about this.
Kyle:I'm very passionate person.
Seth:I absolutely am. And I think, yeah, if you're going to cover history, you've got to be respectful to the history.
You can't just make shit up because it's a better story. Tell a different story then.
Joel:What?
Speaker D:You want to make a historical fiction with me?
Joel:Yeah, sure.
Speaker D:But like, we'll like, just make shit up the whole time.
Seth:Do it.
Joel:Yeah.
Kyle:And just. The whole thing's gonna be about syphilis.
Speaker D:I thought it was good. So here's the thing with the story arcs. I thought it was unique what they did.
I don't think I'd Ever watched a movie where they make you fall in love and kill off the character so quickly?
Joel:Yeah.
Speaker D:So from that, like, basic view that I actually thought about that consciously after, I was like, I don't think I've ever seen a movie that does it like that. Yeah, I liked it.
Speaker E:Yeah.
Speaker D:Yeah, I liked it. I didn't like it, but I liked it because it was unique. That's hard to find. I love movies. I'm really bad at memory.
Speaker E:Yeah.
Speaker D:So, like, talking about them, I'm not great.
Joel:Yeah.
Speaker D:But I watch a lot of them and I really like them. And I can tell you, like, oh, I love that movie.
Kyle:Sure. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I do. It's a squeak over.
Seth:Okay.
Kyle:Blue coat for me. I agree with you partially. The thing is, is it's interesting. Like, this is a Mel Gibson thing because Braveheart was insanely inaccurate.
Oh, yeah, it was. So, but it was so good. And you know, at the end of the day, I, I guess because as just a person, I'm an anti war person. In general.
Speaker E:Yeah.
Kyle:Like, just across the board, I'm anti war. And so it's like watching movies about them, I always look at them with a skeptical eye anyway.
And then like, you, you become an adult and we've had the Internet most of our lives and so we, we can go and research what really happened. And the history books lied to us for the most part.
Speaker E:Yeah.
Kyle:In so many areas. Oh, yes. And so I'm like, which historical inaccuracy? Because it's like we were kind of lied to in school anyway about almost everything.
So, you know, taking creative liberties. To me, it just depends. I, I, the reason it's a squeak and not a fool. Yes.
Is because it is interesting that they, they decided to go so overboard with the, the, the Brits on the atrocities and the slavery thing that they glanced over. I think those are two things that, that I don't really.
I mean, maybe, maybe the Brits were a boring foe and maybe, maybe if they didn't add the atrocities, it wouldn't have been as interesting.
Seth:See, I disagree. Just, just what I know about the Revolutionary War.
There was already enough awful things that they were doing that you didn't have to add the extra crazy stuff and awful.
Speaker D:Super subjective.
Kyle:Because.
Joel:Yeah.
Speaker D:Look at the honor of just standing in a field knowing that, like, they would take a shot and then they would just wait.
Joel:Yeah.
Speaker D:Dudes were just standing there in line. I'd be like, yeah, oh, I'm not first.
Speaker E:Yeah.
Speaker D:Like, I'm definitely, I'm gonna be over there in the bushes shooting everybody from the side.
Speaker E:Yeah, exactly.
Joel:Yeah, yeah.
Kyle:And this was such a puritanical effort. And what I mean by that is the, the end result that the Americans were trying to seek was pure and good.
Speaker E:Yeah.
Kyle:And every war from here on out has so much social ambiguity to it. And you get to Vietnam and Korea and, you know, you just. There's so much. There's just so much like moral ambiguity around so many wars.
With this one, it's like, it's pretty clear cut what was, what was going on. So, I mean, I also think that.
Speaker D:They didn't think too deeply about it.
Joel:Yeah.
Speaker D:Like, I've been in rooms where people have made crazy high level decisions. They usually don't think super deeply.
Kyle:They're just like, oh, let's just do.
Speaker D:Like, the British did suck.
Speaker E:Yeah.
Speaker D:Let's just burn everybody in a church.
Speaker E:Yeah.
Speaker D:All right, that's good. Move on next scene.
Joel:Yeah.
Kyle:In high performing people, decision fatigue is not a thing. They don't want that. So they, they make.
Speaker D:High performing people make decisions so fast.
Joel:Yep. Yeah.
Kyle:And that's how layoffs happen.
Speaker D:I've been in that room before, too.
Joel:Yep.
Kyle:I've been laid off before. It's a lot of fun, let me tell you. With a bunch of kids, three to zero. Directing Mr. Roland Emmerich.
And we just, we just went over his whole repertoire in the last episode, so we don't have to retread it.
Seth:But I think this is a huge positive for him. Like, historical inaccuracies aside, because he didn't even write the script, so. That's.
Joel:Right.
Seth:That's not a qualm I have with him. I think this is some of the best performances I've seen him get out of actors.
I think you felt for every single person, good or bad, on the screen, you had some sort of feeling about those people.
Joel:Right.
Seth:And I think he did a good job at evoking those emotions. I mean, down, like I said, down to the daughter who didn't say a single word until like near the very end there.
Every scene with her, you felt the anxiety that she clearly was. Was dealing with.
Kyle:Right.
Seth:So, yeah. 100. This is a blue coat for me.
Speaker D:I thought he did a movie.
Kyle:I love that.
Seth:That was.
Speaker D:Well, I don't know. That's like a mic drop. I can't.
Joel:Yeah, I know.
Kyle:Sometimes he does that.
Joel:Yeah.
Speaker D:Too bad we disagree on the historical fiction stuff.
Speaker E:Yeah.
Seth:It is what it is.
Joel:People have different opinions.
Kyle:You had to bring it back up.
Speaker D:I had to. Yeah. That's my life. I do that a lot.
Seth:Don't worry, Reddit will drag you for me.
Kyle:Yeah, right.
Speaker D:It's just gonna have to be a subculture of mine.
Joel:Yeah.
Seth:But you go blue coat too.
Speaker D:Yeah, I'll follow you. You sounded good there. I wish I could have said that.
Joel:Yeah.
Speaker D:Can you, like, deep fake him and switch it?
Seth:Yeah, there we go.
Joel:No, I.
Kyle:Not on this category. Because to me, what I was thinking was like, it's.
It's first of all hilarious that we accidentally picked two movies for 4th of July directed by the same person.
Speaker E:Yeah.
Kyle:But if you wouldn't have told me that, I would. Had no idea.
Speaker E:Yeah.
Kyle:Because this is so different.
Speaker E:Yeah.
Joel:Even.
Seth:Even down to just the style of how they. They're so different.
Kyle:It's very organic. And it. Honestly, even though it came out in the 90s, it definitely.
Seth:2000.
Kyle: Oh,: Even though this came out in: Seth:100 agree.
Kyle:Like, if Kubrick would have been able to make his Napoleon movie.
Speaker E:Yeah.
Kyle:I think it would have looked a little like this.
Seth:I. I think you're right.
Joel:Yeah.
Kyle:It had a very traditional. The frames. Now, granted, it's a very traditional culture and a very traditional warfare that they're portraying, but I really think it was rooted in.
In traditional filmmaking in terms of the cinematography, the frames.
Seth:Absolutely.
Joel:Absolutely.
Kyle:And. And one thing I loved about the performances and.
And this would have been a great choice from a director point of view is that the sorrow is never too deep. There are moments where Mel Gibson finally. At, like, when he's finally had enough, demonstrates a lot of sorrow.
Speaker E:Yeah.
Kyle:Because, you know, it was Mel Gibson's decision to add the karmic retribution of his past to the equation.
Speaker E:Yeah.
Kyle:But until then, even when the brother dies when he's shot trying to defend Heath Ledger's character.
Joel:Yeah.
Kyle:Are they sad? But the. They come off as people that have just already experienced hardship just by living during the time they live in.
Speaker E:Yeah.
Kyle:Like, they're not people that are over reactive.
Speaker E:Yeah.
Kyle:And so I think for that reason, I give it. I give it a really strong blue coat because I just think there's some.
Even though there's some inaccuracy, but there's also some really strong decisions that feel very real. Four to zero. Getting patriotic here. We're fighting off the Brits, but with the help of the French hair, what's in front of us.
Cinematography, production design, sound, costumes, editing, Stunts.
Seth:So for me, this, this is definitely going to be a blue coat, but there's, there's a couple of layers to this. I think they had the perfect amount of computer visual effects because obviously you're not going to blow someone's head off for real. But wow.
I mean, not, not, not in this.
Speaker D:You said we had to be historically accurate.
Kyle:I'm sure someone said, yeah, I think.
Speaker D:He'S violating his own rules.
Seth:But it, it, that moment stands out to me so well because you could easily have tried to Zack Snyder it and make it a crazy like super moment, but it happens so quick, but it's so powerful that I'm just like, oh my God. That was visceral. But it didn't, it didn't feel like a crazy like R rated moment.
Joel:Yeah.
Seth:On top of that, as far as the cinematography goes, I, in my mind while I was watching it was comparing it to what I remember from the John Adams series because one of the other big, you know, Revolutionary War projects I've seen the cinematography in this is so good. Yeah, it is. You could tell how well planned out it was. While the John Adams one, it's almost all at a Dutch angle and I don't know why.
This just was very aesthetically pleasing to watch.
Kyle:When you say Dutch angle, what do you mean?
Seth:Dutch angle is when the camera is tilted on its side just a little bit like this. So.
Speaker D:Oh yeah. The Dutch couldn't afford good equipment.
Joel:Yeah.
Speaker D:Started out so they just called it a style thing.
Kyle:That's the oven. The oven's the same problem. It's just cooking at an angle.
Joel:Yeah.
Seth:A lot of, a lot of 90s, especially like Tim Burton kind of movies, would utilize it to make, make things feel a little off kilter.
This, because it stayed away from any of those weird kind of stylistic things I think gave it a much more timeless look than a lot of other movies that came out around that.
Joel:Wow.
Kyle:So I just had a hunch and this is how long I've been doing Movie wars because I had a weird feeling about who the cinematographer was on this and I was right.
Seth:Oh, okay.
Kyle:Caleb Deschanel. Zooey Deschanel's dad.
Seth:Oh, yeah.
Kyle:The.
Seth:You know what else he did?
Joel:What?
Seth:Abraham Lincoln. Vampire Hunter.
Joel:Yeah.
Seth:Which is one of my favorite ridiculous movies.
Joel:Yeah.
Kyle:He did the Natural. He's done so much. He's considered by many the best cinematographer of all time. A lot. Consider him that.
Seth:There's a couple I would put up against him, but I think he's definitely up there.
Kyle:Mostly it's like the Jimi Hendrix thing. It's like. Because of the innovation.
Speaker E:Yeah.
Joel:Yeah.
Kyle:Like, some of the stuff he did in the Natural was considered insanely innovation. But anyway, it's so funny. I was. You were talking. I was like, this sounds like Caleb Deschanel to me. And it was him. Nice. Zoe's dad. But yeah.
So you're blue coat.
Seth:Blue coat all the way.
Kyle:I think blue coat look good. Didn't it look good?
Joel:Yeah.
Kyle:Same here. Blue coat. I. It was stunning. I love going back to my traditional comment. Some of the framing.
Speaker E:Yeah.
Kyle:And it's just. It also let the right things breathe. I think some of the battle scenes really breathed really well.
One of my problems with modern war movies, like Hacksaw Ridge, for example. And again, I know it's realistic, like they're depicting something very real.
Seth:Exile Ridge.
Joel:Yeah. Yeah.
Kyle:It was. It was. It was crazy.
Seth:Yeah.
Kyle:But it's. There's a lot of stimuli.
Speaker D:Yeah.
Kyle:A lot of crazy. Now, granted, this isn't going to have a lot because it's very basic warfare.
Speaker E:Yeah.
Kyle:But I do love how they let those battles breathe.
Speaker E:Yeah.
Kyle:And you. You kind of live with it and you're taking it in. And I. I think they did a great job. And again, I love Caleb Deschanel. He's absolutely one of my.
Doing this podcast. He's one of the people I've grown just to love and respect.
Speaker E:Yeah.
Kyle:So love that. That.
Speaker D:We should tag him.
Kyle:We should tag him. Is he alive still?
Seth:I think so.
Kyle:Maybe tag Zoe. I follow Zoe. I follow her on the old Instagram. I wonder if she became famous because her dad was. I wonder.
Speaker D:It doesn't hurt.
Seth:And I'm sure she got her foot in the door because of it.
Kyle:Nepo babies. Did you know? Is that bad to say?
Seth:No. No, I don't think so.
Kyle:Term of Endearment. Next category. It's five to zero. We are winning our freedom back inch by inch, cannonball by cannonball.
Speaker E:Usa.
Seth:Usa.
Joel:War.
Kyle:What is it good for? How do we like this as a war film?
Speaker D:I know what it's good for.
Joel:Yeah.
Speaker D:Just the changing economic cycles.
Joel:Yeah.
Kyle:Funding the military industry complex and the portfolios of politicians.
Joel:Yeah.
Seth:Oh. So, okay. Do you have any other explanation other than just war films in general?
Kyle:Just war films in general?
Joel:Yeah.
Kyle:I mean, think of the greats. I mean. I mean, you can even add Apocalypse now or Platoon.
Seth:This. So I'm gonna squeak under. This is a little bit of a red coat for me. It definitely would not make my top five or top ten war movies.
But I. I do think it's good. It's just. I don't know, there was something about it that didn't stand out like other ones did. Like with.
With Saving Private Ryan, you have the storming of the beaches at the very beginning with Dunkirk. Christopher Nolan, I think, did a really interesting thing with. With.
With playing with time and watching everything coincide in one moment over the period of a week, 24 hours and two hours. Like, there was something unique about those.
Speaker E:This.
Seth:Well, it did tell a fantastic story. It just. It. I don't know, it's. It doesn't stand out to me as much as even something like Braveheart would.
Joel:Yeah.
Seth:So it's squeak under. It's definitely not bad. But it wouldn't hit my top 10.
Speaker D:I'm going to say yes. Blue coat, this thing.
Joel:Yeah.
Speaker D:And here's why I was agreeing with you at first.
Speaker E:Yeah.
Speaker D:But I just can't get over the arc being so unique.
Joel:Yeah.
Speaker D:I just have never watched a movie where they made me fall in love and kill the characters off so much. But aside from that, every other war movie that I have in my top 10 is going to be a movie that glamorizes war.
Modern weapons, tactics, technology, fun soldiering, you know, Navy Seal type stuff. Sniper stuff.
Joel:Yeah.
Speaker D:You know, breaching, C4, like, explosions. Like, those are going to be nine of the movies. But if I had to pick a top 10, I'm going to throw this one in there. I wouldn't.
I wouldn't even call it a war movie. Like, by default, I call, like a drama.
Speaker E:Yeah.
Speaker D:You know, but it is a war movie technically. So, yeah, I would say it deserves a spot on the list just because it's so weird compared to all my. War is the genre that I very much enjoy.
I enjoy war and comedy. I don't do scary stuff, but I'd say it deserves a spot on my top 10.
Joel:Yeah. Yeah. Wow.
Kyle:That's high praise. I love it.
Speaker E:Yeah.
Kyle:I did go. I actually went more than a squeak under. I'm gonna go full. Full red coat here.
Seth:Okay.
Kyle:Reason being is, is what makes this movie great. Even though I do like how it's filmed. Like I mentioned in my last category, I love it, how it's filmed and framed.
I just can't watch war movies without dissecting the darkness in the effects of war. And that's because I've known people with ptsd. I have no veterans. And I just. It's hard and in. To me, platoon set such a high standard for me.
Oliver Stone, especially as Oliver Stone, like, one of the scenes in the movie is based on a time when he almost got shot. He got grazed by a bullet in Vietnam, and. And Oliver Stone was, like, delirious while he was directing that movie.
He literally, like, had malaria and wasn't sleeping for days at a time. And. And he was really almost reliving Vietnam while making that movie.
And the reason Platoon, I think, resonated with a lot of people and there's a lot of veterans.
There's actually a special feature on the platoon Blu Ray that I have where they interview Vietnam vets, talking about just the reality that was depicted.
Speaker E:Yeah.
Kyle:I just can't really. I can't separate the soapiness from the war.
Speaker E:Yeah.
Kyle:I. I think where it's talking about the family. It's a beautiful story.
Seth:Yeah.
Kyle:And it's what makes this a really good movie.
Seth:It's definitely a better drama that, like you said.
Joel:Yeah.
Seth:War movie.
Kyle:But looking at it purely as a war movie, I just don't think there's. There's enough light on the darkness. And I'm not saying take a deep dive because they didn't know what PTSD was back then. You know, it's.
They were already living very hard lives anyway in the. In the States or in the colonies. But there. There's almost never an illumination of the darkness of war. And for me, that's.
That's almost mandatory because it is. It is at the film.
Speaker D:Did that.
Kyle:I don't think so.
Speaker D:You don't think so?
Kyle:No, not. Not realistically that they did it.
Speaker D:If you. If you don't care that they just made crap up.
Speaker E:Yeah.
Joel:Yeah.
Speaker D:Then they did that.
Joel:Yeah.
Speaker D:But I get what you guys are saying. You're saying it didn't do it the right way.
Joel:Yeah.
Speaker D:Earn your respect.
Seth:The elements were there, but I don't think they were executed properly.
Joel:Yeah.
Kyle:It's just. It's just such an atrocity. Like, just the idea of war at all.
Speaker D:See, and I'm over here with so little movie experience. I'm like a kid eating Velveeta shells and cheese and, like, Gordon Ramsay's rolling his grave.
Kyle:But you're. You're a smart guy with a big brain. We don't invite dumb people on this show. So. So pre. Please analyze away. I respect your opinion, so bring it.
Seth:We've already. We've already got one who's permanently on the show.
Speaker D:Is it too early to say I love you?
Joel:Yeah. Yeah.
Kyle:Stunted emotional growth. It's five to one. Last category. Your history. And this is where we're going to talk about.
I didn't tell you, but we're going to talk about the historical context.
Seth:Yeah.
Speaker D:My wife pops out. Oh, goodness.
Seth:Okay, so what, what just in general?
Joel:Yeah.
Kyle:I mean along the lines of the last category, but take it more from a historical accuracy point of view. I mean movies like Platoon.
Speaker E:Yeah.
Kyle:Hell, even some elements. Even though Apocalypse now was heavily fictionalized, there was so many realistic.
Speaker E:Yeah.
Seth:That's, that's the thing for me. And that's why this is going to be a full out red coat.
Joel:Yeah.
Seth:Is because I genuinely believe as someone who's involved in this art form, if you're gonna do something historical, make sure the historical stuff is accurate.
Joel:Yeah.
Seth:I don't care if you come up with this crazy whatever drama between characters, as long as it fits the actual historicalness of the setting you have picked, then go for it. But make sure it's historically accurate. Like I've said many times, don't add a massacre.
That would have been completely culturally transformative if that actually happened. Don't, you don't have to go.
Speaker D:They also still. Yeah. The British still exist.
Seth:Yeah, they do.
Speaker E:Yeah.
Joel:Yeah.
Seth:So for me it's a full out red cup.
Speaker D:Honestly, I think you've like brainwashed me into this. Like I'm starting to feel it. I'm actually a little mad. I might write a letter after this to the.
Seth:God damn it, Roland.
Speaker D:It's like, what are you doing?
Joel:Yeah.
Speaker D:I defended you rolling in the last episode.
Joel:Yeah. Yeah.
Kyle:He's definitely going to watch.
Speaker D:I don't know. I'm gonna get on board. I, I, Yeah.
Kyle:You wore them down.
Speaker D:Look, you know what, you're right. You, the last argument is what tipped me. They did enough bad stuff. Why didn't you just pick the bad stuff that they did?
Speaker E:Yeah.
Speaker D:Because. And also I just really disliked seeing the people burned in the church.
Speaker E:Yeah.
Joel:Yeah.
Speaker D:And then to find out that that wasn't true.
Speaker E:Yeah.
Seth:If that had happened, that would have been incredible. But, but yeah. Just knowing that that's not something that actually happened.
Speaker D:Because if you would have asked me, did that really happen? I'd be like, probably.
Speaker E:Yeah.
Speaker D:Because I learned through movies.
Speaker E:Yeah.
Speaker D:I did not do well in school. So I take mo. If I'm like, if I think there's any, if 51% legitimacy to the whole thing, I'm just like, oh, that's how it happened.
Joel:Yeah. Right.
Speaker D:You know, and cuz like why would you make it up? They obviously did. Horrible stuff happens in war.
Speaker E:Yeah.
Speaker D:You know.
Joel:Yeah.
Speaker D:Or just putting A thing at the beginning of the movie was like, this is not historically accurate. They say that they'll. They'll tell you if it's gonna give you seizures or something. They could just be like, this is not.
Speaker E:Not. Yeah.
Speaker D:Historically accurate.
Joel:Yeah.
Kyle:So you're going red coat.
Joel:Yeah.
Speaker D:Get on board.
Kyle:I. I struggle with this category for one reason, and that's part of it, is just like, I'm okay with history, but, like, I guess where I'm a little foggy is like, now we have international bodies that govern the rules of war.
Speaker E:Yeah.
Kyle:And that govern, like, when we can go to war, we have, like, international agreements on how we engage in war. Yeah. During this time.
Joel:Yeah.
Kyle:Which we always violate.
Seth:Everyone does.
Kyle:Because how are we going to make any money if we don't violate them? And how are we going to get the oil bab.
Seth:Yes.
Kyle:But here, I don't think. I mean, who. Why would Britain care about what we think are the rules of war when we belong to them and they're over?
You know, so that was part of it to me. Like, so that.
Joel:That.
Kyle:That's what makes the church thing the most questionable. Because in today's society, and this is During World War II with the Nazis, this was a huge deal. Like, burning down churches, hospitals.
Like, that is a massive violation.
Seth:I mean, even down to him. Him trying to hang Heath Ledger like that. That would have been illegal under the stated rules of war.
Kyle:And he wounded him. And he's a messenger, and they wounded him.
Joel:Yeah.
Kyle:The church thing, to me would. Would be such an atrocious act, even without governing bodies.
Like, I think anybody would have during that time period would have probably considered that a heinous act.
Seth:Oh, 100%.
Kyle:And it kind of.
Speaker D:It's a heinous act today.
Joel:Yeah.
Kyle:And today. Well, today you would get punished under the. Was it the Geneva Code? Yeah. Today you would get very, like, unless.
Speaker D:If the Western banking cartel likes you.
Joel:Yes.
Kyle:This is true.
Speaker D:You got to put that, Astrid.
Kyle:Yes, that's true. But I think they just kind of glaze over it here. And I think that's the biggest reason I do go redcoat, because I'm like. That would be.
Joel:Yeah.
Kyle:Maybe there's not a governing body in place to say, ooh, that's bad.
Speaker E:Yeah.
Kyle:But it's still like that. If you're not going to shoot the guy's house because the battle's happening, to.
Seth:Burn the house down.
Joel:Yeah.
Kyle:And then you're going to burn.
Speaker D:You also could tell in the movie that when he ordered him to do it, he knew it was the wrong.
Joel:Yeah.
Kyle:That character.
Joel:Yes.
Kyle:Yes.
Joel:Yeah.
Kyle:I just, I just think, which is.
Speaker D:That'S an important thing.
Joel:Yeah.
Speaker D:Because that's, that's he as a person. That's something I'm happy about for myself. Like, I will not do things that I believe are immoral on my own calendar.
Joel:Right.
Speaker D:I'm saying.
Seth:And see, for me, if, if the church burning was an actual historical event, that's an artistic liberty. I don't mind where you assume, you know, maybe the person who was ordered to do this had had a conscience and didn't want to do.
Speaker D:I really thought he was going to switch.
Speaker E:Yeah.
Speaker D:Like multiple times I thought characters were going to switch and just kill him.
Speaker E:Yeah.
Speaker D:And like join the other side. And they thought about it, I'm sure, for a second.
Seth:But that's, yeah. That's where I'm like, there, there are some liberties. I can, I can totally be on board.
Speaker D:Oh, so you're saying it's okay if they put him on the church? It was gonna die. I thought he was gonna save him.
Speaker E:Yeah.
Speaker D:To be honest.
Speaker E:Yeah.
Joel:Right.
Speaker D:Like, I thought he was gonna. At first. I was like, he's gonna wait till he runs away and not actually.
Seth:Yeah, yeah.
Kyle:There are certain areas in film and just creativity in general, whether it's music, where trying to cross breed creativity with reality is a very dangerous area.
Speaker E:Yeah.
Kyle:And war is definitely one of those. Because this also leads you to the question, so take everything I just said about the church.
Then that begs the question, is war in and of itself not interesting enough to just show as is? And you gotta, you've got to add creative liberties to it to make it interesting. It's like you're talking about war here.
Speaker D:It's like you also, you always have to have a story with the war.
Joel:Yeah.
Speaker E:Yeah.
Speaker D:So they took creative liberties on the story side.
Joel:Yeah, yeah.
Seth:But yeah, I, I, yeah, I, I just don't think they needed to add that extra stuff.
Joel:Yeah, yeah.
Kyle:And I think too there's recency bias because with more recent events like Vietnam, you don't have to take creative liberties. It was a show.
Seth:It was so much up that happened during that.
Kyle:And World War II was so insanely hyper violent and, and was the, the Germans were so insanely aggressive with their warfare tactics that capturing that on screen is never not going to be compelling.
Seth:Exactly. Yeah, exactly.
Kyle:With this one, it's like. Well, they kind of stood in the line.
Speaker E:Yeah.
Kyle:And took turns shooting each other.
Speaker D:That's probably what happened. It was so boring.
Joel:Yeah.
Speaker D:The way that they fought. They're like, we have to do some.
Kyle:Crazy Mel Gibson watch. It was like, we got to burn a fucking church.
Speaker E:Yeah.
Kyle:Five to two with some good discussion. I love it when we verge on. On good cultural discussion, dude. Thank you for coming on.
Seth:Absolutely.
Speaker D:We made a podcast. How do you feel?
Kyle:I hope you enjoyed yourself.
Speaker D:I did enjoy myself. Converted me.
Joel:Yep.
Kyle:I love it when that happens.
Speaker D:Medical condition.
Joel:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Kyle:Micro Filipino. But anyway, we are so glad. We hope you have a good, safe Independence Day. Do not play with fireworks.
Speaker D:Don't shoot the aliens.
Kyle:There are so many people walking around without fingers. Especially here in Tennessee.
Speaker E:Yeah.
Kyle:Without fingers. And just don't do it. Don't let your kids play with them. Just a little safety mess. I don't know why I'm doing. I don't care what you do.
This is America.
Speaker D:But I will say this. My parents, doctors, and I would go to the ER for them when they're working every 4th of July.
Speaker E:Oh, yeah.
Speaker D:It's a line out the door of people blowing off their digits.
Seth:Yep.
Joel:Yeah.
Speaker D:And their eyes. And it's like, if you want to have some fun, go hand out some candy at the local er.
Speaker E:Yeah.
Speaker D:Because they need it.
Joel:Yeah.
Kyle:It's just a stupid reason to lose a finger. It's just so. It's stupid. Just don't.
Joel:Yeah.
Kyle:There's no reason. Anyway, I'm Kyle.
Seth:Love you.
Speaker D:I'm Joel.
Joel:Love y'. All.
Kyle:Movie Wars.
