Do The Right Thing with comedian Paula Kosienski
Spike Lee’s Do the Right Thing isn’t just a movie — it’s a heatwave of tension, morality, and explosive conflict set in a single Brooklyn neighborhood on the hottest day of the summer. In this episode, guest host Paula Kosienski joins us to break down why this 1989 classic still hits hard today. We dig into the moral dilemmas at the heart of the story, the layered character relationships, and how the sweltering heat becomes its own character, pushing everyone toward the boiling point. Along the way, we unpack Spike Lee’s bold visual style, his use of color and camera work, and how this film forces you to ask: when the pressure’s on, what is the right thing?
What We Cover in This Episode
- How Do the Right Thing tackles race, identity, and community tensions in America
- The way Spike Lee uses heat — both literally and symbolically — to build tension
- Paula Kosienski's comedic but insightful take on the film’s serious themes
- The cinematic techniques (color, camera angles, pacing) that make this film unforgettable
- Why the questions this movie asks in 1989 are still relevant in today’s conversations on race and social justice
Key Takeaways
- Spike Lee’s Do the Right Thing is a timeless exploration of race, morality, and the ripple effects of choice.
- Heat is more than weather here — it’s the accelerant for every conflict.
- Cinematography, set design, and color use aren’t just aesthetic choices — they’re part of the storytelling.
- Your perspective on this film will be shaped by your own experiences, and that’s exactly the point.
Transcript
Ladies and gentlemen, thank you for joining us on the Movie wars podcast today.
Speaker A:Our amazing guest host is Paula Kiczynski, Nashville based in the comedian who's getting a lot of national acclaim, much deserved.
Speaker A: ing, a movie that came out in: Speaker A:And when you go to read about it and when you listen to podcasts and go out there and research this movie, there's a lot of different perspectives on it.
Speaker A:So stay tuned and figure out how Seth, Paula and I worked our way through what Spike Lee was trying to tell us in do the Right Thing.
Speaker A:Yeah, we're doing do the Right Thing here.
Speaker A:This is our first Spike Lee movie.
Speaker A:I think this is the first Spike Lee movie in the history of Movie Wars.
Speaker A:I'll just get right to it.
Speaker A:I think because he's.
Speaker A:He's black and tells black stories, I do think people do try to just assess him that way.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:But he will go down as one of the most creative, hands down interesting storytellers.
Speaker A:And yes, he tells stories about race, and he tells stories about socioeconomic issues.
Speaker A:Like, he is very focused.
Speaker A:But that's not all.
Speaker A:Yeah, he is.
Speaker A:Those are the stories.
Speaker A:But his approach.
Speaker A:Yeah, his writing, the way that he views the world is very interesting.
Speaker A:And the way that he's able to translate that to the screen.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:Is very interesting and I think masterful.
Speaker A:I think even people who.
Speaker A:I think they think they're doing him a service by emphasizing the race elements of his storytelling are doing him a disservice.
Speaker A:Because if you zoom out, there's a lot more to him as a creative, oh, 100% than just that.
Speaker C:The level of detail that went into setting the stage for this particular movie is absolutely incredible.
Speaker C:Something if.
Speaker C:If you are not familiar with Spike Lee and this particular movie, he wanted to make the main antagonist of this film, the.
Speaker C:The Heat, actually, like the Heat becomes an actual character in the film.
Speaker C:And this was shot on film.
Speaker C:This was not shot digitally.
Speaker C:And this was before the age of color correction.
Speaker C:So basically, what you got on film is what you were able to do unless you employed the technique that he used.
Speaker C:It's called color flashing.
Speaker C:And what he did was he took the film strips and would very quickly expose them to the.
Speaker C:The color orange in this case, so that the entire movie had that kind of glaze of orange across the whole thing.
Speaker C:And it's because he really wanted to emphasize not just the heat, but how the heat would influence everyone's decision making during the 24 hours that this movie takes place in.
Speaker C:Because I think one of the biggest points.
Speaker C:Story avenues with the movie is whenever everyone is that hot and you don't have relief from the hot, you start devolving into kind of your worst person.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker C:Because you watch the way everyone is at the beginning of the movie, the very beginning of the day.
Speaker C:Yeah, it's hot, but not crazy hot.
Speaker C:Everyone's pretty friendly with each other.
Speaker C:They're all talking to each other.
Speaker C:Some of them are talking smack to each other, but overall, everyone is very friendly.
Speaker C:And then as the day goes on, as it gets hotter and everyone's getting more bothered, you really watch.
Speaker C:Even within the little friend groups that it showcases, you really watch everyone kind of start turning on each other throughout the whole day.
Speaker D:I remember being in theater.
Speaker D:I was a theater major.
Speaker D:Bad idea.
Speaker D:And.
Speaker D:And.
Speaker D:And I remember we'd have these, like, talks.
Speaker D:We go through scripts.
Speaker D:We just, like, get so far into it.
Speaker D:And I remember being like, this is just for us.
Speaker D:Like, I don't think anybody's picking this up, you know, so.
Speaker D:So I think I got turned off from, like, getting super into that type of thing.
Speaker D:So then I think I just don't do it very well now.
Speaker D:But.
Speaker D:But when you make the point about how people get hot and they get mad and it gets worse throughout the day, like, I do see that now that you say that.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:And I think.
Speaker A:I think something I had to.
Speaker A:To kind of process was this idea that every character was both Malcolm X and Martin Luther King.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:That was really the thing, is that the heat was an element where as it got hotter, people were shifting in their stance of who they were.
Speaker A:There really was one character, and that was Jade, who was really whatever you want to call good.
Speaker A:Yeah, was good the whole time, but everybody.
Speaker A:And Sal was almost the.
Speaker A:The core of that because he was so loving of the people that eat in his restaurant.
Speaker A:He's like, I fed these people growing up.
Speaker A:I knew them as children.
Speaker A:And then when he confronts Radio Rahim, it was one of the most racially charged.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:Angry.
Speaker A:And that was Spike Lee's thing, was that every character in the movie is both Malcolm X and their, you know, and Martin Luther King.
Speaker A:Their approach to race and to, you know, civility and all those things rolled up in one.
Speaker C:But, Jimmy, at the same time, it's.
Speaker C:It's funny you say that about Sal, because I think one of the most poignant moments in the movie was where it fully breaks out of the story and everyone is in these single shots.
Speaker C:And it starts with.
Speaker C:With Mookie and goes through every different race of all the different characters.
Speaker C:And they're all just saying every possible slur they can think of about whichever race they're talking about.
Speaker A:Yes.
Speaker C:And it.
Speaker C:It's pulled completely out of the narrative because you get this moment where you realize, oh, wow, everybody kind of has something internalized within them, whether they.
Speaker C:They understand it or not.
Speaker C:There's going to be a moment where something just.
Speaker C:There's just the anger comes out from.
Speaker C:From circumstance or.
Speaker C:Because that's who you are or whatever.
Speaker A:In some of the analysis that I've read about this movie, like, you can look at so many of the arguments being made in this movie, and I think the biggest one that you can kind of easily break down is when Bugging out is first mad at Sal for not having any black people on the wall.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:And they both have valid points.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:And Spike Lee, this entire movie.
Speaker A:And I haven't seen a movie in a long time that did it so completely, where every scene, every interaction, every theme is pushing you to pick a seat.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:In the theater.
Speaker A:And you're just like.
Speaker A:And you're trying to like, well, I don't want to sit there because if I sit there, I'm a racist.
Speaker A:But I want to sit there because if I sit there, I'm a bigot.
Speaker A:It's just like, yeah.
Speaker A:Where.
Speaker A:How do I choose?
Speaker A:And when Bugging out is like, you don't have any brothers on the wall.
Speaker A:I mean, it is Sal's restaurant.
Speaker A:He is Italian, and he's got Italian people on the wall.
Speaker A:But it's a black neighborhood.
Speaker C:Exactly.
Speaker A:And the people that have kept his business alive and his clientele.
Speaker A:And you're just, like, sitting there like, I don't want to choose.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker D:I don't love a lot of, like, conflict in movies, which is, like, the whole point of a movie.
Speaker D:I understand.
Speaker D:But if it could just be the beginning, five minutes for the whole movie, I'd be like, this is great.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker D:So, like, I was a little bit.
Speaker D:I struggled with how everybody was, like, so at each other.
Speaker D:And, I mean, that's the human condition.
Speaker D:So I definitely understand that's a good storytelling point.
Speaker D:But.
Speaker D:But I was like, gosh, everyone's so mad.
Speaker D:Like, I just feel like we're not supposed to be like that all the time.
Speaker D:And so I thought this whole time, like, I was watching this movie, and I was like, I feel this movie, like, tries to get you mad or just like frustrated.
Speaker D:And I'm like, I just don't think that that's like a functional service that is worth providing to people.
Speaker D:Like, if you're going to tell a story, I understand not every story has to be happy.
Speaker D:Go, perfect, great.
Speaker D:But if you're in it and you're just like.
Speaker D:You constantly feel like you have to pick a side.
Speaker D:You're constantly frustrated with everybody.
Speaker D:It just feels like.
Speaker D:It's like almost like hurtful to your soul.
Speaker C:But see, I think that's exactly why he made the story that way.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker D:Which is why I'm not his target audience.
Speaker A:Cause I'm like, this is not a confrontational person.
Speaker D:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker D:It's like, I don't.
Speaker D:I don't.
Speaker D:I just don't know anybody who is like that and like, is also helping society.
Speaker A:I understand where you're coming from, and I think that's this movie.
Speaker A:It meets you where you're at.
Speaker A:Yeah, it really does.
Speaker A:That's what's crazy about it, is it's like you're in that position.
Speaker A:I was kind of.
Speaker A:I also wasn't ready.
Speaker A:Like, I knew what the movie was about, but I also was kind of just in a weird place.
Speaker A:I wasn't.
Speaker A:I wasn't really ready to receive in that moment.
Speaker A:And I was.
Speaker A:I like, I told you guys before we hit record, I was like, I had to like sit there and kind of process.
Speaker A:Yeah, my thoughts.
Speaker A:I was like, where do I sit with this movie?
Speaker A:I'm like, what is it telling me?
Speaker A:What is it challenge?
Speaker A:What is it telling me about myself?
Speaker A:Yeah, I haven't had a movie do that to me in a long time.
Speaker A:Like this one did this.
Speaker C:This falls into the category of one day films.
Speaker C:If you look at it, this is basically a 24 hour period, morning to morning.
Speaker C:And something I realized this time around especially.
Speaker C:I don't think Spike was trying to say this is all of society, all the time, where everyone just hates each other.
Speaker C:I think what he was trying to showcase because at the very end, it's got the dedications to all the people who died in similar situations like this.
Speaker C:And I think what he was to showcase was this is how everything can escalate in such a short period of time.
Speaker C:But then at the very end of the movie, even though clearly S and Mookie are still pissed off at each other, at the very end, when he throws the $500 at him and he throws the $200 back and they have that moment where it's like they still Realize the other one's human.
Speaker C:And they.
Speaker C:They still realize we're just going to have to move on with our lives and no matter what, because this is how life is.
Speaker C:Yeah, but it was really trying to showcase the moment as a moment, not as this is where everyone's at.
Speaker A:All the time I listened to.
Speaker A:I was just curious what some of my favorite film commentators thought.
Speaker A:And there is divides between the.
Speaker A:The.
Speaker A:The call line is do the right thing.
Speaker A:And it's part of a longer statement, which is, you know, it's the hottest.
Speaker A:I think the poster said it's the hottest day of the summer.
Speaker A:You know, you can do this or you can do nothing, or you can do the right thing.
Speaker A:It's basically a summarization of that.
Speaker A:And you'll listen to really profound.
Speaker A:And it's not even.
Speaker A:It's not bound by race or ethnicity or anything.
Speaker A:There are people on every side of every argument saying no one did the right thing, or saying that only, you know, the.
Speaker A:Basically.
Speaker A:Or maybe Radio Rahim was the only one who did the right thing.
Speaker A:I've heard that Mookie did that, you know, but, yeah, there are people from all walks of life who.
Speaker A:Who look at this film and say, I can't.
Speaker A:This is what I think was the right thing.
Speaker A:Or this is who did the wrong thing.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:And it's crazy.
Speaker A:I'm talking like profound thinkers in film.
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker D:Is.
Speaker D:Was one of the opinions that nobody did the right thing?
Speaker C:Oh, yeah.
Speaker D:Because I. I think it would be probably in that category.
Speaker A:Yeah, it's prevalent.
Speaker D:I thought the movie title was kind of ironic for that.
Speaker D:I was like, yeah, we're doing the right thing.
Speaker D:Everybody seems like they're just about their worst selves.
Speaker C:Well, I think that's the point is, like, I think most of us would like to think that we are better than we actually are, and not necessarily saying that all of us are bad people, really, but I think we at least would like to think that we're better.
Speaker C:Granted, though, you also have to think about when this came out, because this came out in 89.
Speaker C:And a lot of people today kind of like to look back at the 80s and 90s and be like, oh, but everything was solved back then.
Speaker C:Why can't we just go back to that?
Speaker C:And I think part of his point was like, yes, even though we're all now polite to each other, there's still underlying tension that at least needs to be called out.
Speaker D:You know what it reminds me of?
Speaker D:Remember that episode of the Office where Michael Scott airs out everybody's complaints publicly.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker D:And it makes it 1 million times worse.
Speaker D:That is exactly how I feel.
Speaker D:It's like everybody's like, we need to, like, talk about this and be honest and bring it up to the forefront.
Speaker D:And then it's like, that just makes everybody so much worse.
Speaker D:It's like, I feel like I'm like, no, let's.
Speaker D:Polite is good.
Speaker D:Let's keep it to ourselves.
Speaker D:Like, let's just be nice to each other.
Speaker D:I don't know.
Speaker A:Did anyone do the right thing?
Speaker C:I think everyone and no one did a lot of right things.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker C:I don't think ultimately you can say everyone did the right thing or anyone did the right thing.
Speaker C:I think some people made some.
Speaker C:Some good decisions at times and then other.
Speaker C:And then at the same time, later on or earlier on or whatever because.
Speaker C:Because you see this with.
Speaker C:With the mayor.
Speaker C:He starts off as kind of just the drunk.
Speaker C:Not asshole necessarily, but just kind of this drunk bum.
Speaker C:And throughout the.
Speaker C:The.
Speaker C:The story kind of comes to grips with himself and is like, no, I need to.
Speaker C:I need to be better.
Speaker C:And it's like, it really showcases in that moment where he goes up to mother Sister where she's crying and he, He.
Speaker C:He hugs her and starts taking her inside.
Speaker C:And I think that's the moment where he does do the right thing.
Speaker C:But I think at the beginning, he wasn't doing the right thing.
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker D:I mean, I think in the end it felt like.
Speaker D:It felt like by the.
Speaker D:By the end of the movie, it felt like everybody had done the wrong thing at least once.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker D:Where the people in the beginning were like, this is like a good guy.
Speaker D:And then by then you're like, okay, maybe not.
Speaker D:But also, I think everybody had most.
Speaker D:I think most everybody had their, like, moment of, like, doing something good, I guess.
Speaker D:But generally I thought everybody was on their worst behavior.
Speaker A:I think the way it resonated with me is.
Speaker A:I think it's such a meaningful message in today's setting with technology and where people post, they.
Speaker A:They posture online, you know, that's.
Speaker A:That's how our society acts today.
Speaker A:We air our grievances online and we.
Speaker A:If you were to read the comments from people, you would think, well, that person is perfect.
Speaker A:They got it all together.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:But this movie is really nailing the truth of human nature.
Speaker A:Was that, like, at any given time can become the monster.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:Or the hero.
Speaker A:But today it's indistinguishable because we.
Speaker A:We let digital interface be so much of our existence now that.
Speaker A:That we've kind of just Accepted that.
Speaker A:If you think about it, it's like you just read comments and you get pissed off or you like, Yeah, I agree with that person.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:And it's like.
Speaker A:But that's not how it works.
Speaker A:What.
Speaker A:What works is like, maybe today I'm charitable, loving, kind, and super nice, and everyone loves me.
Speaker A:Tomorrow, something really bad could happen.
Speaker A:Or I could not get enough sleep.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:Or my.
Speaker A:What happens to me?
Speaker A:My kid could throw up on me first thing in the morning.
Speaker A:Then I'm not a good person that day.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:And I'm just.
Speaker A:There's a number of things that happen in the human condition that can cause you to go either way.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:And I think this movie illuminates that.
Speaker A:And I found it to be very illuminating compared to the way that we interact today.
Speaker A:And it really.
Speaker A:To me, it made it very obvious that we're kind of sick today.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:As much as the devastation is hard to watch, and like you said, some of the behavior is really hard to watch between all the.
Speaker A:All the various folks in the movie, at least there's like, this physical tangibility to what you're seeing on screen.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:When you.
Speaker A:Even though it's fiction, you need to spare it with how we interact today.
Speaker A:Passive aggressive digital anger.
Speaker D:I think the movie sets up this presuppositional argument that if bad things happen to you, you are going to do bad things.
Speaker D:And that isn't true.
Speaker D:Sometimes you can have horrible things happening you and still choose to, like, pursue righteousness.
Speaker D:And that is.
Speaker D:I think that's what I think I wanted out of the movie.
Speaker D:To be like, who is gonna be the one to be like, it's hot.
Speaker D:I don't feel good.
Speaker D:This sucks.
Speaker D:Life sucks.
Speaker D:And I am still gonna get up and, like, try and fight the internal part of me that wants to be, like, terrible.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker D:Because we all have those days where something bad happens to us or we go through seasons where it's just like.
Speaker D:I mean, truly horrible things happen.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker D:And it's just.
Speaker D:You just sometimes have to be like, well, I.
Speaker D:Nobody deserves me to be rude.
Speaker D:Anyway.
Speaker C:I think that's partially what Mookie especially, is supposed to represent.
Speaker C:The second morning, like, he wakes up and Tina just starts screaming at him because he's.
Speaker C:He's going to get money.
Speaker C:Like, that's.
Speaker C:That was the funniest thing about their relationship for me, was she's mad that he's not spending time with her, but it's like, at the same time, he can't pay for anything.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker C:If he's.
Speaker C:If he's there all the time.
Speaker C:So it's like he's trying.
Speaker C:He's trying to do, literally trying to do the right thing and make money so he can support his, his girlfriend and his child.
Speaker C:But it's like at the same time, he's also just constantly getting nagged because he's trying to do that.
Speaker D:Right.
Speaker A:That relationship was weird.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:That was one of the weirdest parts of the movie.
Speaker A:Like, it's almost there.
Speaker A:It's such a distant.
Speaker A:Like the relationship to that child was almost non existent for him.
Speaker C:But again, it's like, I mean, it's a day in the life.
Speaker B:It's.
Speaker C:It's.
Speaker C:We don't.
Speaker C:We get Peaks into how the past has been, but it's like, yeah, we're only watching this one particular day in.
Speaker D:The beginning for a while.
Speaker D:I don't think, you know, he even has a kid.
Speaker D:Like, it takes a while.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker C:Legitimately.
Speaker A:Last question.
Speaker A:How good do we really think Saul's pizza really is?
Speaker A:Or Sal as a. Sal.
Speaker C:Sal.
Speaker A:Sal.
Speaker A:How.
Speaker A:Sal's pizza really that good?
Speaker C:It looked good.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:It, it.
Speaker C:I mean, I'll.
Speaker C:I'll go full Dave Portnoy here for a second.
Speaker C:Like, it looked like it had a solid undercarriage.
Speaker C:It looked like the cheese was perfectly put on.
Speaker C:Wasn't too droopy or soupy.
Speaker B:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker C:There wasn't.
Speaker C:It wasn't too much New York flop.
Speaker C:I don't know.
Speaker C:It looked like a solid pizza.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Pretty good.
Speaker A:Pizza look good.
Speaker D:I think to eat pizza on 100 degree day, it has to be pretty good because if it is 100 degrees out, I am not gonna go eat pizza.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:But he's literally just delivering it in the box.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:And just walking around.
Speaker C:He's staying warm.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:It's true.
Speaker C:I did notice there was one shot where I think Pino was cutting a pizza and it looked like he was barely even touching the pizza.
Speaker C:I'm just like, I don't think that's cut all the way through, bro.
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker A:Or he's just that good.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker C:He's just like a samurai with.
Speaker A:Rando.
Speaker C:Randos.
Speaker A:Yes.
Speaker A:Robert Dairo was originally supposed to play Sal and he backed out because he didn't want to play a role that was similar to roles he had played in the past.
Speaker C:I, I appreciate that.
Speaker C:From his perspective, I think he could have nailed it.
Speaker C:I did say when, when you got here, this guy felt almost like James Gandolfini a little bit.
Speaker A:Danny Aiello.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker C:Which I. I don't know what.
Speaker C:I don't know what James Gandolfini was doing at the time.
Speaker C:I don't know if he was really that big yet, but he.
Speaker A:True Romance was kind of the first time.
Speaker C:Okay.
Speaker A:I think people were kind of familiar with Gandolfini in a big way.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker C:I could have seen him, but again, he probably would have been too young.
Speaker C:But at the time.
Speaker C:So I don't know.
Speaker C:I could have seen someone like him do it.
Speaker C:But De Niro would have been a good choice.
Speaker C:And I could see how the character was almost written to be De Niro.
Speaker C:But then it also would have been weird to have Robert De Niro in there with a picture of himself on the wall.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:And he got.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:And he was nominated for Best Actor for this one, so.
Speaker C:Wow.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:I don't think he won.
Speaker A:This is also a big controversy of the year.
Speaker A:It was beat by Miss Driving Miss Daisy.
Speaker A:I think her best film, Right.
Speaker C:Oh, right.
Speaker C:And then I think.
Speaker C:I think the same year Black Klansman was nominated for a few awards, Green Book won.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker C:And.
Speaker C:And because I remember Spike Lee talking about how he keeps getting beaten by these white person, black person driving movies.
Speaker A:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker A:Anytime.
Speaker C:God damn it.
Speaker D:I remember watching Driving Miss Daisy in school.
Speaker D:I was like, I don't know.
Speaker D:Did you guys like that movie?
Speaker C:I haven't seen it, actually.
Speaker D:Okay.
Speaker A:I did.
Speaker D:It's harder.
Speaker D:It's hard to really judge.
Speaker D:You're in three, you don't really like anything.
Speaker A:I thought he crushed it.
Speaker A:And he's been in a lot of great films and he went on to have a fantastic career.
Speaker C:So, I mean, there were a lot, like several big name actors today who were.
Speaker C:Who got kind of a start in that movie.
Speaker C:Martin Lawrence was in it.
Speaker C:Giancarlo Esposito was in it.
Speaker C:Rosie Perez's first movie, like some really big names today.
Speaker C:Samuel Jackson, even though his was just kind of like a little cameo, like it wasn't even like a big part of the movie.
Speaker C:Like he was.
Speaker C:I think he was pretty much on the up and up by then.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:But this is before Pulp Fiction, and even in Bipolar Fiction, he hadn't necessarily established his.
Speaker C:Oh, interesting.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:He hadn't even.
Speaker A:Even in Pulp Fiction, he's like a tone down.
Speaker A:He's not Samuel L. Jackson.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker C:Fair.
Speaker C:Definitely.
Speaker C:Definitely wasn't Legend, but I feel like at that point he was more than a cameoed guest star.
Speaker C:Agreed.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker D:I feel like the character he played in this movie is the same character he played at the super bowl halftime show.
Speaker A:Oh, yeah.
Speaker A:Maybe that's why they had him.
Speaker C:I mean, he was on the super bowl halftime show.
Speaker A:Yeah, he was like a radio announcer.
Speaker C:It may have been the same character then.
Speaker D:I mean, they had him dressed as Uncle Sam, so I think they were going for something.
Speaker D:Right.
Speaker D:But it was like the same vibe where you're like, man, he's good.
Speaker D:He should do radio.
Speaker C:Nice.
Speaker A:This was inspired by a true story.
Speaker A:Spike Lee said that something called the.
Speaker A: ,: Speaker A:And so Reverend Al Sharpton led the black community to boycott all the white pizzerias in the area.
Speaker A:So that was the original idea.
Speaker C:Yeah, because, like, I knew in the.
Speaker C:In the end, when he had the dedication to all those people, like, I knew it definitely had to be pulling from real life events.
Speaker C:But that.
Speaker C:Oh, that's unfortunate that it had to be based on something like that.
Speaker A:I know.
Speaker D:That's so sad.
Speaker D:I almost feel like the movie is more like what everybody's like when they're miserable and the story is like, no, that's just horrible.
Speaker D:Like, it was December.
Speaker D:I don't.
Speaker D:They're just being racist.
Speaker D:It's like a very different environment.
Speaker B:Yeah, Yeah.
Speaker C:I think without the heat, you.
Speaker C:You wouldn't really have this story.
Speaker C:Like, it would have to be a completely different story to get anything across.
Speaker A:Frank Sinatra was not pleased that his picture was not only on the wall in the pizzeria, but his picture burned.
Speaker A:Years later, Spike Lee claimed that Frank Sinatra, or he requested to use some of Sinatra's music for the film Jungle Fever.
Speaker A:And Sinatra, quote, unquote, hell, no.
Speaker A:You burn my picture and do the right thing.
Speaker C:Oh, my God.
Speaker A:He ultimately did, I think, let him use the music, but he was.
Speaker A:He was not happy that I didn't.
Speaker D:Know he was that petty.
Speaker C:Oh, Sinatra.
Speaker C:Oh, absolutely.
Speaker C:That whole era, the Rat Pack era of people were very petty about stuff.
Speaker A:You get really petty when you got the mob at your back.
Speaker D:Yeah, I. I mean, I know literally zilch.
Speaker D:Until right now, I didn't even know it was Italian.
Speaker D:But, I mean, you can probably pick it up.
Speaker A:One of the weird things that came from this movie is the way.
Speaker A:So it's.
Speaker A:There's two cast members it into this movie just through Spike Lee, just like being out in the community.
Speaker A:Yeah, Ro.
Speaker A:But the story of Rosie Perez is weird because he met her at a nightclub.
Speaker A:This is before anyone knew who she was.
Speaker A:And so during the.
Speaker A:The scene the nude scene of the ice.
Speaker A:There are a lot of moments where you don't see her face.
Speaker A:And the reason for that is because she's actually crying because she was so uncomfortable, she did not want to do the scene.
Speaker A:She was so afraid of her family seeing her in the scene.
Speaker A:And she actually resented Spike Lee for a long time.
Speaker A:They've made up.
Speaker A:They.
Speaker A:I think, like, 10 years ago.
Speaker C:Okay.
Speaker A:They're still great friends, and he made up for it.
Speaker A:But at the time, she was insanely uncomfortable, didn't want to do it, and they kept having to, like, not film her face.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:That's sad because she was crying.
Speaker D:I mean, that's.
Speaker D:That's sexual assault also.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker D:Like, I mean, I guess you could have quit, but, like, I mean, that just seems so messed up.
Speaker D:Like.
Speaker D:Yeah, like in last, you know, last video, we're talking about how, like, it's inappropriate to, like, kiss someone.
Speaker A:Yeah, we did the same.
Speaker D:And then it's like you're filming this woman naked who's actively crying.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker D:Oh, my God.
Speaker A:And you wrote and directed the movie and cast yourself as the person who does the thing to that.
Speaker B:Oh, yeah.
Speaker A:That's a little weird.
Speaker D:If they made up as friends, that makes me feel no better.
Speaker D:Like that.
Speaker D:I'm like, okay, well, great.
Speaker D:That's worse.
Speaker D:Honestly, that.
Speaker A:Showbiz baby.
Speaker D:Oh, man.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Very, very weird.
Speaker A:Very weird to find that in my research.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker D:It's a damper on things.
Speaker A:It does.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Do the wrong thing.
Speaker A:When it comes to casting Smiley, the actor who played him, and have a hard time saying his middle name, Roger Guinevere Smith.
Speaker A:And the way he got cast.
Speaker A:So Smiley was not in the original script.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:Which is interesting because he's such a vital part of this movie.
Speaker A:The actor just kept going to the set.
Speaker A:They were filming down the block from me.
Speaker A:He just kept going every day and just begged Spike Lee.
Speaker A:And finally.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker C:I mean, yeah, they literally shut down and kind of gave a facelift to an actual block in New York.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:The only known time that Spike Lee has storyboarded anything in any of his films.
Speaker A:He does not storyboard.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:Was the ending scene with the trash can through the glass.
Speaker A:That's the only scene that's known now.
Speaker A:Maybe he did it in other another films, but that's known.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:He is not a storyboarder.
Speaker C:I mean, that.
Speaker C:That.
Speaker C:That scene, you have to nail it in order for this movie to work.
Speaker C:Like, I think if that was handled any in any other way than it was it, it probably would have turned even More people off than.
Speaker C:Than I think, you know, it did for.
Speaker B:For.
Speaker C:For the way it was.
Speaker C:So.
Speaker C:Damn.
Speaker C:Yeah, I can see that.
Speaker C:Like, you.
Speaker C:You really got to know what you're trying to get across in that moment, because, yeah, it can.
Speaker C:It can really put an even bigger divide between people.
Speaker A:So.
Speaker A:Yes.
Speaker A:You dig it.
Speaker A:You love it.
Speaker A:Jerry curl alert.
Speaker C:Okay.
Speaker A:Which I love.
Speaker C:That was one of my favorite lines.
Speaker A:Jerry curl alert.
Speaker A:Jerry curl alert.
Speaker C:Your hair will be a plastic blob.
Speaker C:Yes.
Speaker A:And then Helter Swelter.
Speaker C:Okay.
Speaker A:As.
Speaker A:No, because the newspaper, on the hottest day of the year, it said helter Swelter.
Speaker A:There we go.
Speaker A:And I thought that was hilarious, especially because SP Lee would go on to.
Speaker A:Not that it's related to Charles Manson, but Spike Lee did the Son of Sam movie, right.
Speaker A:With John Leguizomo, I think so.
Speaker A:So that's not Charles Manson, but he would eventually go on to do a serial killer movie.
Speaker A:Nice top, Bill.
Speaker A:Cast Danny Aiello, Ozzie Davis as the mayor, and Ruby D. Yeah.
Speaker C:First off, find it very interesting that he didn't even include himself in the top build because, like, he is technically, like, the lead character.
Speaker C:Like, everything kind of relates back to Mookie.
Speaker C:But remind me who they all play.
Speaker C:That was the mayor, mother, sister, and Sal.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker C:I thought they all crushed it again, I think.
Speaker C:I think having Sal go from nice guy to mean guy, and then having the mayor go the opposite way, where he's kind of, like I said, just the drunk bum and turns into, like, the actual sympathetic, even.
Speaker C:Even, dare I say, empathetic man at the end of the movie, and then kind of having mother sister just.
Speaker C:Just kind of hit that middle ground the whole way through.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker C:Like, you see her go back and forth where she's nice and then mean and nice than me, but she really kind of keeps a very similar level throughout the whole thing.
Speaker C:And.
Speaker C:And I think having the three of them and that juxtaposition there was really good.
Speaker C:So it's a Jerry curl.
Speaker D:Yeah, I'll go.
Speaker D:Jerry curl.
Speaker D:I will say, what you guys were saying about Robert De Niro, I kind of glad that he wasn't in it, because I think the guy who played Sal, I just thought he had a more convincing face.
Speaker C:Yeah, I agree.
Speaker C:I agree with that.
Speaker C:Actually.
Speaker C:No, legitimately, like, I think, yeah, he looked more like just a normal guy.
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker D:Robert De Niro has, like, a really tiny looking face.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker D:And so it's like, it gives off like a.
Speaker D:More like that guy seemed more like just like my dad.
Speaker D:Well, he's not like my dad, but like.
Speaker D:But like, you know, he's like a regular dude and you could pick him off the street.
Speaker C:No, I totally agree with that.
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker D:Robert De Niro looks like he would eventually be famous.
Speaker A:And this would.
Speaker A:And I think if you would have cast.
Speaker A:Because Spike Lee was on the.
Speaker A:On the rise.
Speaker A:He had already done a few movies that had gotten him on the map, but.
Speaker A:Yeah, this would have become a Robert Dairo movie.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker C:I mean, yeah, it would have.
Speaker A:Anything in the 80s post Godfather 2, Dairo was the feature, and I think it.
Speaker A:It would have been bigger than the movie.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:And we have a lot of stars here, but they're mostly before.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:Their careers ever took off.
Speaker A:So I totally.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker A:I go.
Speaker A:Jerry curl alert, too.
Speaker A:I think everyone's been asked to do a lot in this movie.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:Because everybody is.
Speaker A:Is both sides of the coin.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:Everyone is having to almost play opposite of themselves.
Speaker A:So whatever character they establish in the beginning, whether they're good in the beginning or bad or whatever you want to say, antagonistic, protagonistic, by the end, they're.
Speaker A:They're having to play the other side.
Speaker A:And it's like, I think mother.
Speaker A:I think mother sister.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:I think Ruby D is one because she's almost this, you know, this deeply respected wisdom.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:Character.
Speaker A:But at the end, she's cheering for the burning of the pizzeria, which is.
Speaker A:Which is such a weird change for that character because she's almost the sage.
Speaker A:Beloved character in the community.
Speaker C:You'd say she's cheering for it.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker C:She's the one who's in tears, like, when it.
Speaker C:When it's on fire.
Speaker A:I thought she was cheering for it.
Speaker C:I didn't get that.
Speaker A:Oh, really?
Speaker A:Yeah, I kind of.
Speaker A:I kind of thought she was maybe.
Speaker C:Finish your point, though, because I'm curious to see what.
Speaker C:What you took away from that.
Speaker A:Yo, just saying that.
Speaker A:That as far as the top Bill cast, I mean, aside from Aussie Davis, because the.
Speaker A:The mayor is pretty consistent.
Speaker B:Yeah, but.
Speaker A:But Sal and.
Speaker A:And mother sister both had to.
Speaker A:To go to extremes, in my opinion.
Speaker A:Especially s. Going from this guy that loves to feed the community, is proud of that.
Speaker C:Literally was such a good guy right up until the last second.
Speaker A:And then he was like, oh, yeah.
Speaker C:And it's like.
Speaker C:It's like.
Speaker C:It's almost like how again, the heat melts that.
Speaker C:That wall you've put up.
Speaker C:And just you.
Speaker A:You.
Speaker C:You're just like, all right, it's here now.
Speaker C:Here we go.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:And this is another big supporting Cast, we did save In Private Ryan with Nick Bush.
Speaker A:That was one.
Speaker A:And now we're so many.
Speaker A:Now we got another one.
Speaker A:Supporting cast, it's one to zero.
Speaker A:We got Richard Edson as Veto.
Speaker A:Giancarlo Esposito the Great as Bugging out, which I almost unrecognizable.
Speaker C:Seriously though, you, you, it's.
Speaker C:It took me about three times seeing him on screen before I was like, okay, that is him.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:A very young Giancarlo.
Speaker A:Which, by the way, we need a category for names.
Speaker A:Best name ever.
Speaker A:Giant Carlo.
Speaker A:Espionage.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:Spike Lee as Mookie.
Speaker A:Bill Nunn as Radio.
Speaker A:John Turto as Pino.
Speaker A:And lastly Samuel l. Jackson as Mr. Senor Love Daddy.
Speaker C:Also introducing Rosie Perez.
Speaker A:Rosie.
Speaker A:Introducing Rosie Prison.
Speaker A:It's funny, she's buried all the way down at the bottom.
Speaker A:Roger Guinevere Smith as Smiley.
Speaker A:And then Robin Harris's sweet Dick Willie.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker C:I think everybody again, just absolutely nailed it.
Speaker C:Like, feels like a stage play.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker C:And it's.
Speaker C:And I think with that opening dance sequence that, that literally was.
Speaker C:The point was to set up this idea that even though we're on a real location, we're in the real world.
Speaker C:This is still a stage play kind of set to how we're going to tell this story.
Speaker C:And so we were talking about this especially in reference to those kind of off kilter Dutch angle shots.
Speaker C:And whenever anyone's directly addressing the camera and you have kind of these out of body, like existential moments, the.
Speaker C:The acting tends to get way more theatrical and a little more in your face.
Speaker C:But then when you go back to just telling the normal story, everything goes back to such like, subtle, well, well done acting that it's like.
Speaker C:I think everybody did a crazy good job at hitting those juxtapositions.
Speaker C:So it's a Jerry curl for me.
Speaker C:Like Jerry curl crushed it.
Speaker D:Agree.
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker A:This is a squeak over.
Speaker C:Okay.
Speaker A:For me, I go squeak over because I.
Speaker A:It's weird.
Speaker A:I think Spike Lee doesn't do great here.
Speaker C:Interesting.
Speaker A:I do think he has a.
Speaker A:He's like a chameleon.
Speaker A:Like in this movie.
Speaker A:Like he, he doesn't.
Speaker A:His character never seems overly affected by anything.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:Which did lead up to the fact that when he threw the trash can through the window, it was a huge surprise.
Speaker B:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker C:Because he's kind of the peacemaker throughout the whole thing.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:And he's a peacemaker.
Speaker A:But it's always maybe to.
Speaker A:To benefit him the most.
Speaker A:Like peacemaker because he needed a job.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:He's a peacemaker.
Speaker A:You know, and y.
Speaker D:He's like one of those people who, like, on the outside, you think they're handling everything really well, and then on the inside, you're like, I think they're just selfish.
Speaker D:Like, I think they just only care about making their life just a little bit easier.
Speaker A:I don't love Rosie Perez.
Speaker A:I think she overacted in some of the scenes.
Speaker A:I think towards the end, when you meet the child for, I think, the second time, I think she overacted.
Speaker C:Have you met Cuban New Yorkers?
Speaker A:I have.
Speaker A:I do.
Speaker A:I used to have a close friend.
Speaker A:Most people think I'm Cuban because my last name is Castro.
Speaker A:I'm wearing Cuban jewelry.
Speaker A:But no, I. Yeah, I've had a lot of Cuban friends.
Speaker A:Yes.
Speaker A:And that's true.
Speaker A:Yeah, that is true.
Speaker C:But granted, it also makes sense was this was legitimately her first real acting role.
Speaker C:Like, whenever it says introducing someone, this means this is their first movie.
Speaker A:I do love.
Speaker A:I do love bugging out.
Speaker A:I love Radio Raheem.
Speaker A:I love those characters, especially the scene where he's talking about his.
Speaker C:The rings.
Speaker A:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker A:The.
Speaker A:The brass knuckle things.
Speaker C:Like, that whole speech is so good.
Speaker A:It's really good.
Speaker A:And, you know, they're delivering these to the camera.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:So, like, a lot of what's happening is.
Speaker A:Is just camera to face.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:And so, like, a lot of the actors, that's what they're doing.
Speaker A:They're not interacting with other actors for a lot of scenes, are literally delivering almost like speeches.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:And I think they go really well.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:And Raheems was probably my favorite, where he's, like, doing the boxes.
Speaker A:He's like, love, and then.
Speaker D:Hey.
Speaker A:And then love.
Speaker A:And then.
Speaker A:I love that.
Speaker A:And Samuel Jackson, a young Samuel Jackson here doing.
Speaker A:Doing.
Speaker C:God, sounds like it's more than a squeak over, buddy.
Speaker A:I just.
Speaker A:I don't know how I feel about Spike Lee's performance.
Speaker A:I just.
Speaker C:You're just.
Speaker B:Okay.
Speaker D:I thought you were gonna be like, I just really don't like Cuban.
Speaker A:I just really don't like Cubans.
Speaker A:No, no, trust me.
Speaker A:I love Cubans.
Speaker A:But, yeah, I just.
Speaker A:You're telling me there wasn't another young black actor that could have done that better?
Speaker C:I don't think so.
Speaker C:I don't think so.
Speaker C:Because, again, he's.
Speaker C:His acting seemed to be so reined in because he is, like you said, he.
Speaker C:He is the bridge between everybody.
Speaker C:And so.
Speaker C:Because everyone else is so over the top at times on purpose.
Speaker C:And also, like you said to.
Speaker C:To.
Speaker C:To.
Speaker C:For that moment of him Throwing the trash can to be so out of nowhere.
Speaker C:He has to be very reined in.
Speaker C:He has to be very chilled out the whole movie.
Speaker D:I see the value of the character.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker D:But I do agree with, like, you can't have.
Speaker D:Like, there's not another young black person who can play mid.
Speaker D:Like, you're the only one.
Speaker D:Spike Lee.
Speaker C:Not in the way that he did.
Speaker C:I don't know.
Speaker C:I, I, this is.
Speaker C:I'm not necessarily a fan always of directors being in their own movies.
Speaker C:I think it worked really well in Braveheart.
Speaker C:But I think this is one of those instances where I, I see how he was trying to portray the character, and I don't think anyone else could have done it that way.
Speaker A:Oh, Tarantino.
Speaker A:That's a guy who shouldn't be in his own movies.
Speaker A:Two to zero writing Spike Lee.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker C:I think this is incredible.
Speaker C:I think we've had plenty of discussions about how good the script is and how, again, it's.
Speaker C:It's one of those things where I've seen so many people try to utilize those soliloquy monologue moments that just come across so freaking preachy.
Speaker C:And even though he's.
Speaker C:He's very clearly trying to make points with those monologues and those speeches, weirdly, they, they only come off as theatrical.
Speaker C:They don't come across as.
Speaker C:I'm gonna talk down to you.
Speaker C:So I think, I think the way he was able to go between the theatrical and the, the, like I said earlier, just the subtlety of we're just having a normal conversation now.
Speaker C:I love those moments where it cuts the.
Speaker C:The three old guys just sitting there, just having the most random conversations.
Speaker C:But then it always comes back to the heat.
Speaker C:And that's what kind of ties the random together.
Speaker A:I love that.
Speaker A:It's Sweet Dick Willie.
Speaker B:Yeah, he's so funny.
Speaker D:Yeah, I thought.
Speaker D:I think it's a squeak over, as they say.
Speaker D:I didn't really like the soliloquies, and I did think they were kind of preachy, and for two reasons.
Speaker D:One, I think I bring my own bias because again, back when I was doing theater school, it was like, I just have heard so many people be like, well, I'm gonna put this in because, like, this is what I really want people to get out of it or whatever.
Speaker D:And it's like, ugh, okay, fine, then just write a better script.
Speaker D:But so there was that.
Speaker D:And then the other aspect of that point, I guess, is it just.
Speaker D:To me, it felt like I was like.
Speaker D:It felt like a.
Speaker D:Like a middle schooler when they're like.
Speaker D:They want an excuse to just, like, say a bunch of, like, bad stuff in, like, a little bit of an unproductive way.
Speaker D:I get the whole point is, like, everybody kind of has, like, racial bias, and I get the point.
Speaker D:But, like, I thought it was hard to hear.
Speaker D:I was like, oh, I don't want to.
Speaker D:I don't want to know these.
Speaker D:I don't want to hear these.
Speaker D:I don't want to, like, put this in my brain, you know?
Speaker C:Interesting.
Speaker D:So I didn't, like, love that.
Speaker D:And then also, I just thought it kind of broke up because the whole idea of the story, to me was that it captures this very, like, it's a day.
Speaker D:So it's.
Speaker D:It feels really smooth, and it feels like you're almost watching it in real time.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker D:And then you break off and get these random, like, aggressive yelling things.
Speaker D:And it's like.
Speaker D:I thought the whole point of the movie was that we were just freeform, capturing the day.
Speaker A:I go, die hard, Jerry.
Speaker A:Curl alert.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:I think there's a lot happening.
Speaker D:I think that mean it's a lot or a lot.
Speaker A:Like, so that means you really, like, so positive.
Speaker D:Okay.
Speaker A:So positive.
Speaker A:No, I love it.
Speaker A:I. I was.
Speaker A:I. I like it mostly because I love being challenged.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:And I felt like I was challenged a lot.
Speaker A:And I was.
Speaker A:Even after the movie, after the credits rolled, I was still trying to figure out what just happened.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:And figure out, like, where my stances were and, like, what happened.
Speaker A:Like, who.
Speaker A:Like, what happened to these characters, like.
Speaker A:And where do they go from here?
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:I love it when that happens.
Speaker A:And I think there's a lot being written here that's really, really neat.
Speaker A:I think I go back to Radio Raheems almost monologue to the camera as being wonderful.
Speaker A:And the way that the interactions, especially when it gets really heated at the end.
Speaker A:How heated?
Speaker A:And especially, like, the confrontation, like, that racially charged slur fest between all the Italians and the black men.
Speaker A:And I guess there's the Korean and the Korean, the.
Speaker C:The Puerto Rican.
Speaker A:They're all there.
Speaker A:But the way that exchange is going down is so.
Speaker A:It's so interesting.
Speaker A:It's almost containerized, where you're seeing each person individually, and it's really.
Speaker A:I know that's more in the next category, but from a writing perspective, it's interesting how those.
Speaker A:They wanted just the person saying it in the camera.
Speaker A:Did you notice that?
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:It's a weird technique.
Speaker A:In a good way.
Speaker A:It's almost like the person saying the insult was in camera, but not the person receiving the insult.
Speaker C:Exactly.
Speaker A:And I was like, from a writing perspective, I'm like, that's so interesting.
Speaker A:It's like.
Speaker A:It's almost like they're talking to me.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:Even though I'm not the recipient, but they're talking to me.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:Not the actor, not the other character.
Speaker D:Right.
Speaker A:And I just thought that was.
Speaker A:Whether that was intentional or not.
Speaker A:I don't.
Speaker C:I think it was, but I. I.
Speaker A:Just, from a writing perspective, thought that was marvelous.
Speaker C:Absolutely.
Speaker D:Maybe there's another reason why I was, like, weird about it, because I was like, don't.
Speaker D:Don't bring me.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker D:It's suffocating, I think.
Speaker D:I think it's just.
Speaker D:You want to see.
Speaker D:When someone's being so aggressive, you want to see the other person, and then when you don't see the person and you're like.
Speaker D:You're like, if I want to watch someone just be insane, I could just go outside.
Speaker A:3 to 0 directing Mr. Spike Lee.
Speaker C:I think there's a lot of incredible choices that were made throughout this.
Speaker C:And again, it's like.
Speaker C:It's like, down to using that color flashing technique of making sure the film started with that orange tint, down to the color palette that he used in general with the costumes and with.
Speaker C:With the set pieces.
Speaker C:I don't know if this was a particular, like, active choice that he made, but I realized subtly, between the two sons, Veno is wearing a white tank top.
Speaker C:Pino is wearing a black tank top.
Speaker C:And you very clearly see that Veno's the one who's genuinely likes everybody, who's genuinely trying to get along with everybody.
Speaker C:And you really see the anger and the disdain and all of the bad things kind of bubbling up from Pino.
Speaker C:And he's the one always wearing dark colors.
Speaker C:It just.
Speaker C:There were choices like that that I was like, oh, wow.
Speaker C:Whether he made that consciously or subconsciously, he was very much showcasing who everybody was by what they were wearing.
Speaker A:And once Turturro got angry, he was like, oh, yes.
Speaker A:He's never seen a disappointing performance from John Turturro.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:And here I was just like, holy shit.
Speaker B:Yeah, he's.
Speaker A:He's angry.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:And he hates black people.
Speaker A:Point received.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker C:And so, yeah, it's just the fact that they found an actual block in.
Speaker C:In New York City that they were able to kind of.
Speaker C:Now, there was controversy behind this as well, because they gave it a facelift, but it was all fabricated.
Speaker C:None of it was real.
Speaker C:So when they left, they just tore everything down, and it was back to being Just a crappy block.
Speaker A:Oh, really?
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:So, like, the local neighborhood thought they were gonna get some renovations done out of the whole thing, and then they didn't.
Speaker C:So it was like.
Speaker C:It was a weird.
Speaker C:It was a weird thing that happened there.
Speaker C:But the.
Speaker C:The fact that he was able to also turn the city block into a character in the film was insane for me.
Speaker C:So, yeah, it's absolutely Jerry Crowe like this.
Speaker C:There's a reason this could be considered Spike Lee's best movie movie.
Speaker A:And the whole renovation thing, that's what they call getting spiked.
Speaker A:I don't know.
Speaker A:I don't know what they call that.
Speaker D:Well, I don't like Spike Lee.
Speaker D:I mean, I've only seen this movie.
Speaker D:I don't.
Speaker D:I don't really.
Speaker D:I don't think I respect him.
Speaker D:I don't respect the way he does art just because, 1.
Speaker D:I didn't know about that.
Speaker D:That seems crazy to me that you're doing this movie, and it's like you're, like, trying to be, like.
Speaker D:Look at how, like, you're taught.
Speaker D:You're trying to focus on, like, somewhat race relations in America, and then you, like, don't do anything to help the block.
Speaker D:It just comes off as someone who's disingenuous.
Speaker D:So.
Speaker D:So that goes out the window pretty fast now.
Speaker A:Sure.
Speaker D:And then also, he's really just intense and, like, not in a helpful way.
Speaker D:So, like, I just.
Speaker D:It seems like his movie.
Speaker D:The movie was just, like, not all that, like, super helpful in terms of, like, giving you a productive answer to things.
Speaker D:And then I just like the colored rating.
Speaker D:That was pretty cool to find out that.
Speaker D:And.
Speaker D:And I like the idea of the heat being, like, the.
Speaker D:The way you apply pressure to people.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker D:So, like, there were certain things that I like, but I just think Spike Lee reminds me of everybody that I went to theater school with.
Speaker D:And I'm like, you guys are also insufferable and difficult, and I just couldn't imagine being around you all the time.
Speaker A:That's what they call getting spiked.
Speaker A:No, but.
Speaker C:So was that a yes or a no?
Speaker A:I don't.
Speaker D:That's a no.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker D:I don't.
Speaker D:I don't really like the house.
Speaker D:I don't like Spike.
Speaker D:So.
Speaker C:Helter swelter.
Speaker A:Helter swelter.
Speaker A:We got to say it.
Speaker A:I go.
Speaker A:I go, jerry curl alert here.
Speaker A:I think Spike made some choices here that really confronted me and.
Speaker A:And made me think and process.
Speaker A:I think he's.
Speaker A:This is.
Speaker A:I think this is his third film and just a huge leap in maturity.
Speaker A:I mean, Just as a filmmaker, just the.
Speaker A:The way it's filmed and framed.
Speaker A:Some of the choices that he made here are brilliant.
Speaker A:And I. I love it.
Speaker A:I love the cast.
Speaker A:I think, even though it was accidental, De Niro, what didn' movie.
Speaker A:I think the casting decisions were fantastic.
Speaker A:You know, and there are parts where, you know, it's.
Speaker A:It's.
Speaker A:You are kind of getting lost in the fog of war.
Speaker A:And I. I think.
Speaker A:I think the only critiques I have, it's like.
Speaker A:It does sometimes feel like it drops from being a commentary to kind of a malaise.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:And it's like.
Speaker A:And it's like, maybe that's intentional because that's kind of how heat feels.
Speaker A:When you're out in the heat for a long time, you go from thinking clearly just like, what the hell's happening?
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:There were moments in this movie was like, wait, what the hell's happening?
Speaker B:You know?
Speaker A:But for the most part, I would say, like, 90% of this movie is a very tight commentary.
Speaker A:And it's not even about agreeing or disagreeing.
Speaker A:It's just about, like, being confronted by what the film is.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:And kind of just processing it and figuring out, where do we go from here?
Speaker D:Okay, that's exactly a great point, because he does make you kind of, like, think.
Speaker D:But then you realize, like, he doesn't care.
Speaker D:And you're like, well, I mean, he probably does care, but the whole block thing really makes me annoying.
Speaker D:It's like, okay, so you're gonna put all of us through, really trying to think about this and grapple with this and look inside ourselves, and that's all good.
Speaker D:But you didn't do anything helpful, actually.
Speaker D:You know what I mean?
Speaker C:Well, I will say, it is not a film production company's job to fix up a neighborhood.
Speaker D:No, but.
Speaker C:And a lot of that wasn't that he promised to.
Speaker C:It was that people thought he was going to fix things up because he was shooting there.
Speaker A:That's what we call getting spiked.
Speaker A:It is 4 to 0 with a few categories left here.
Speaker A:What's in front of us?
Speaker A:Cinematography, production design, sound, costume editing, stunts.
Speaker C:So there are a few things that I think are incredible.
Speaker C:One, I like how the soundtrack only follows what's on the radio.
Speaker C:The entire.
Speaker C:All of the music is what Sam L. Jackson's playing on the radio.
Speaker C:So I think that is a really cool aspect to realize, like, to bring you into this kind of neighborhood aspect.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker C:There's no score.
Speaker C:It's really just what's.
Speaker C:You know, it's a soundtrack.
Speaker C:So I think that's really cool.
Speaker C:I.
Speaker C:As we were talking about earlier, I love the choices he made when it came to.
Speaker C:There are moments you're supposed to feel like everything's out of balance.
Speaker C:So he uses the Dutch angle.
Speaker C:Very, very calculated, very well.
Speaker C:But then you have those moments where now people are speaking into the camera because it's supposed to feel more theatrical.
Speaker C:So I think that's really cool.
Speaker C:The cinematography is incredible.
Speaker C:The sound design.
Speaker C:Nothing necessarily.
Speaker C:You know, I think most of it was 80 yards.
Speaker C:I mean, it was very solid ADR.
Speaker C:Never once did I feel like it sounded unnatural.
Speaker C:The.
Speaker C:The whole ending sequence of watching the.
Speaker C:The building burn, like, I think was insanely well done.
Speaker C:So, yeah, it's absolutely Jerry curl alert for me.
Speaker C:This is so well done visually.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker D:I'll go.
Speaker D:Jerry curl.
Speaker D:I thought the.
Speaker D:When you said about the orange, that was really cool.
Speaker D:And then again, I just, I. I really felt like I.
Speaker D:We were transported into that neighborhood.
Speaker D:Like, I. I felt it.
Speaker D:I learned a lot, like, I.
Speaker D:About culture that I didn't know before.
Speaker D:So, I mean, I really did think that that was good.
Speaker D:My only thing that I was kind of like about was those angles.
Speaker D:And again, I'm sure there's a purpose for it, but it just, I think people.
Speaker D:I just didn't get it.
Speaker D:And then what it reminded me of is, you know, when you get a camera for the first time and you're like, trying to take overly edgy photos.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker D:And you're like, from the side, it's like that's the vibe it gave.
Speaker D:Where it's like, it's like, I feel like you're just doing this for hashtag art.
Speaker D:It's like, what, Just to be different.
Speaker C:Hashtag VSCO girl.
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker D:It should be emo or whatever.
Speaker D:And so I was like, these are.
Speaker A:I go Jerry curl alert here.
Speaker A:And my favorite thing about it was the.
Speaker A:Was the close up angles and feeling like characters are actually talking to me.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:Especially the Radio Raheem scenes, especially in the pizzeria.
Speaker A:And was like my music.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:And I feel like he's in my face and I. I do like that.
Speaker A:And I think it uses camera angles and camera work decisively to.
Speaker A:To make you feel the dialogue more.
Speaker A:To make you feel the words being said that were on the page.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:I thought that was a great choice.
Speaker A:The city felt.
Speaker A:Even though it was.
Speaker A:It was, you know, they had done all the renovations and stuff.
Speaker A:It was a city that felt left, felt lived in.
Speaker A:I felt like these people grew here.
Speaker A:Like, I felt like these people grew out of the ground on this block.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:You know, and there's a lot of organic elements to it that I just felt.
Speaker A:I loved it and I loved being confronted and challenged by it.
Speaker A:And a lot of that was in the choices that were made behind the camera, the editing, the colors.
Speaker A:There was just so much about it that I felt were very intentional.
Speaker C:Agreed.
Speaker A:So I dug it 5 to 0.
Speaker A:But complain away.
Speaker A:Now, this one might be tough for you because you said, is this your only Spike Lee movie?
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker A:So for you, this category will be like, would this be a movie that I would.
Speaker A:If I was a top director, and I would say this is my best movie.
Speaker A:And you'd be like, try again for you.
Speaker A:Okay, but.
Speaker A:But.
Speaker A:But you've probably seen more.
Speaker A:I've seen a lot of Spike.
Speaker A:Yeah, I've seen.
Speaker C:I've seen probably three or four of his movies.
Speaker A:This category is called the Spike Lee Joint because he calls this movie Joints.
Speaker C:He does.
Speaker C:Well, so there.
Speaker C:It's funny, there is actually a different difference because Oldboy is labeled as a Spike Lee film.
Speaker A:Oh, really?
Speaker C:It is not included in his joints.
Speaker C:And I think it's because it's an adaptation.
Speaker A:Oh, that makes sense.
Speaker C:It's a.
Speaker C:It's a remake of another movie.
Speaker C:So.
Speaker C:But.
Speaker C:But he does actually differentiate between Spike Lee joints and Spike Lee films.
Speaker C:And so from.
Speaker C:From his.
Speaker C:His filmography that I've seen.
Speaker A:Let me give you the breakdown real quick to help you, because this is wild.
Speaker A:So it's not even in his top five ratings wise, according to Rotten Tomatoes, which is a sham.
Speaker A:Four little girls, 100% a Huey P. Newton story, 100%.
Speaker A:American Utopia, 97%.
Speaker A:Black Klansman, 96% with our friend Mr. John David Washington.
Speaker A:And then when the levy broke.
Speaker A:94.
Speaker A:And then that's the top five.
Speaker A:The five bloods, 92.
Speaker A:Then do the right thing at 92.
Speaker A:So it's tied at six.
Speaker A:And then what's crazy is Malcolm X, which I.
Speaker A:That's the movie that I associate with him the most.
Speaker A:89.
Speaker A:It's at like 9.
Speaker A:Inside man 86.
Speaker A:And then he Got Game, which is a movie I love, is an 80.
Speaker A:Jungle fever 80.
Speaker A:25th hour 80.
Speaker C:Where's Chirac at?
Speaker A:Chirac is an 82%.
Speaker A:And it's.
Speaker A:It's like in the bottom.
Speaker C:Where's Old Boy at?
Speaker A:Old Boy is not on here, probably because it.
Speaker A:It's not an original.
Speaker C:Okay, but.
Speaker A:And then.
Speaker A:Yeah, I mean, it's kind of wild that.
Speaker A:That Malcolm X is like eight.
Speaker C:I mean, yeah, I could see how that one could just be a polarizing topic in general.
Speaker C:So for this type of situation, I don't necessarily go on rating.
Speaker C:I also go on where he was in his career when he made these movies.
Speaker C:And the fact that this was his third feature length film, I think is absolutely crazy.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker C:Because I know people who've made multiple feature length films and they're terrible.
Speaker C:They're, they, they would hope that they could come up with something as original and poignant as this, and they try, and it just comes across as sloppy.
Speaker C:So the fact that, like, he really was only a couple of projects in and was able to come up with something that, that has genuine such an iconic movie, I think it does belong in his top five.
Speaker C:As far as looking at how his career has evolved, where he started, where he's gotten to.
Speaker C:I don't know I would necessarily say it's his best one.
Speaker C:I don't think I've seen enough of his filmography to make that decision.
Speaker C:But I definitely think it should be considered at the very least, top five most iconic movies he's ever made.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker C:So it'd be a Jerry Curl.
Speaker A:And if I was a director saying this is in my top five, what would you say?
Speaker D:I would say it seems like your audience really likes.
Speaker D:Seems like the people that like it really like it.
Speaker D:So you're doing that, right?
Speaker D:I just, I just don't know if I'm like a good audience member.
Speaker C:But were you, were you over Jerry Curl or were you Helter Swelter?
Speaker D:I don't know.
Speaker C:You don't think it should be in his top five?
Speaker A:You hated it.
Speaker D:I, I just really think that if you guys think it should, then it should because, like, you get it.
Speaker D:You know, you're, you get the movie.
Speaker D:You're like picking up on it.
Speaker D:So it seems like he's doing a good job for what he's going for.
Speaker C:Okay.
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker C:So I'll go above Jerry curl.
Speaker C:Here we go.
Speaker A:Jerry curl alert.
Speaker A:Yeah, I, I think so.
Speaker A:And I think it's interesting it's not in the top five, but he has such a, at this point, such a dense filmography.
Speaker A:Yeah, I actually think it's better than, than just about anything new that he's made.
Speaker A:I liked He Got Game, but it's, it's not as good as this for sure.
Speaker A:And I do think it's, considering it's his third entry, it's really masterful.
Speaker A:Yeah, I think it's interesting, like his top 15, because this is his top 15 movies that I have pulled here.
Speaker A:Like Summer of Sam, which is probably my favorite movies.
Speaker A:Not.
Speaker A:It's a 50 on rotten tomatoes.
Speaker C:Oh, wow.
Speaker A:So I really love that movie.
Speaker A:John Leguizamo starts in it and see.
Speaker C:That'S what a 50 means to me.
Speaker C:Is it?
Speaker C:It's, it's that polarizing that either you love it or you hate it.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Adrien Brody's really great in the Summer of Sam, and if you haven't seen it, I highly recommend it.
Speaker D:Okay.
Speaker A:But it's, it's.
Speaker A:It's about Son of Sam, so it's pretty violent and weird, but fair.
Speaker A:This isn't me having hyperbole.
Speaker A:Most film commentators that I've.
Speaker A:I've read and listened to about this movie think this is one of the most important films in the last 40 years.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:And I would agree.
Speaker A:I think it belongs.
Speaker A:It's not even necessarily about assistant Spike Lee's.
Speaker A:Spike Lee's top five, but it has earned its place in the importance of film history in total.
Speaker C:Agreed.
Speaker A:Because of the way it handles the subject matter.
Speaker A:So that's how I feel about it.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker A:So, Jerry, Curl alert.
Speaker C:Six to zero.
Speaker A:Six to zero.
Speaker A:And with one category, and I love these categories, we've talked about how Michael Mann just makes LA films.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:Just like some directors are synonymous.
Speaker C:I was hoping this was going to.
Speaker A:Be one of your topics.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:Spike Lee and not just not.
Speaker A:Not New York, but specific like Burrows.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:Of New York.
Speaker A:Like, he's that, like.
Speaker A:And I guess you would say, is this Bronx or Queens?
Speaker D:What is Brooklyn?
Speaker A:Oh, Brooklyn.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:Because it's Bed Stuy.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker C:So yeah.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:We could say New York or Brooklyn.
Speaker A:But I call this category New York State of Mind because how does this hold up in the New York.
Speaker C:Honestly, whenever I think about the 90s and, and I, I've been, I've been looking back on it and it's interesting because I know this is 89, but close enough to 90s.
Speaker C:But I've been looking back on it and it's so interesting how many.
Speaker C:And maybe it's just because so much stuff was being shot there that it, that it.
Speaker C:That New York was kind of a big set piece for the late 80s through most the 90s.
Speaker C:But I just remember, like, a lot of what I watched growing up took place in New York and it was all about, like, the neighborhood and keeping the neighborhood together.
Speaker C:And like, whenever I think of New York in the 90s, the font that he used in this for.
Speaker C:For all the titles and everything and the way that he shot all the brownstones, that's what I think of, like, the visuals and the way that he showcased this.
Speaker C:This neighborhood in New York City, like we've said, is.
Speaker C:I think it's just masterful.
Speaker C:It's crazy because.
Speaker C:Yeah, there aren't many other films I can think of that.
Speaker C:That do it on that level.
Speaker C:Like, I'm sure the Godfather Showcase.
Speaker C:I still haven't seen the Godfather, but I'm sure it showcases New York, and.
Speaker D:I know that's crazy.
Speaker C:Again, there's lots of gaps.
Speaker C:Lots of gaps that I will fill because of this podcast.
Speaker A:It's actually pretty rare that New York City features.
Speaker A:It's actually takes a lot, like, in the country and.
Speaker A:Yeah, there's a lot of that.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker C:But it's.
Speaker C:It's.
Speaker C:I don't know.
Speaker C:This.
Speaker C:This really showcases.
Speaker C:It envelops you in this neighborhood.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker C:So, yeah, absolutely.
Speaker C:The Jerry girlfriend, me.
Speaker B:This.
Speaker C:This.
Speaker C:This should be one of the most iconic New York movies.
Speaker A:Love it.
Speaker D:Okay, so the idea is, like, is this a good movie for New York City?
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:Imagine New York's like a character.
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker D:Okay.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:Like, it's like a.
Speaker A:It's such an.
Speaker A:It's like there are movies that are.
Speaker A:That.
Speaker A:So many movies are filmed in New York and take place because it's just a play.
Speaker A:It's an important place.
Speaker A:But then there are movies that.
Speaker A:It's like, New York is like.
Speaker A:It's about like the.
Speaker A:Before.
Speaker A:The Devil Knows yous're Dead is another example of a movie where New York is just like.
Speaker A:Like seeping in the movie.
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker D:I mean, I don't.
Speaker D:I don't know how else.
Speaker D:Where else you could film this movie and it would take place and it would look the same.
Speaker D:Because the whole idea is you're on top of each other.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker D:And the only place that you're on top of each other, really, is in.
Speaker C:New York, because even LA is way more spread out.
Speaker D:Right.
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker D:I don't know why they're so upset over there.
Speaker D:I don't know what their excuse is.
Speaker A:Because everything's on fire.
Speaker C:Yeah, it's true.
Speaker D:Solid point.
Speaker D:So, yeah, 100%.
Speaker D:I think this is like, you couldn't do this movie anywhere else.
Speaker A:Love it.
Speaker A:Yeah, I agree.
Speaker A:And I.
Speaker A:It's.
Speaker A:It's almost so New York that I don't understand a lot of it.
Speaker A:Like, I just think I had to.
Speaker A:At one point during the movie, I had to step back and say, I've been to New York, but I have never lived and breathed New York the way that these characters have.
Speaker C:And he has his finger like you said his finger on the pulse of so many different specific neighborhoods.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker C:Because they're even referencing other neighborhoods within this two block radius.
Speaker C:Like, it's so good, right?
Speaker A:Yeah, exactly.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:There's.
Speaker A:It's just so specific that sometimes I was like, that's probably just a New York thing he's talking about.
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker A:But I love that.
Speaker A:And I love films that are so geographically like.
Speaker A:Like, that's why I love Drive and Collateral and Heat.
Speaker A:Like, a lot of my favorite movies have that in common.
Speaker A:Like the City Breathe.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:It's almost its own character.
Speaker A:And it's.
Speaker A:It.
Speaker A:This is maybe the one of the most exaggerated cases of that I've seen where New York is just so prevalent.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:So kudos to.
Speaker A:To Mr. Lee, Mr. Spike.
Speaker A:We got spiked.
Speaker C:Get spiked.
Speaker A:Seven to zero.
Speaker D:Can I make one more thing about the New York thing?
Speaker D:Make a point to me even.
Speaker D:Like you were saying, it's very borough specific.
Speaker D:Obviously I've never lived in Brooklyn.
Speaker D:I don't have near the experience that a lot of people would have with Brooklyn.
Speaker D:But the times I visited it, this is how.
Speaker D:That's how it felt.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker D:So it's like if you were to try and say that movie was happening in, like, Manhattan, I would be like, yeah.
Speaker D:But it specifically feels like Brooklyn.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker A:Totally agree.
Speaker A:7 to 0.
Speaker A:We just did two 7 to 0 back to back.
Speaker C:I mean, yeah, they're both great movies.
Speaker A:Slamming summer movies.
Speaker A:It's hot outside.
Speaker A:We're doing hot movies.
Speaker A:Thank you for hanging out with us.
Speaker A:If you haven't seen this movie, it just had its anniversary not too long ago, so make sure you go out and see it.
Speaker A:I'm Kyle.
Speaker C:I'm Seth.
Speaker D:I'm Paula.
Speaker D:Thanks for having me.
Speaker A:Thanks for being here.
Speaker A:Love y'.
Speaker D:All.
Speaker A:Movie Wars.
