Brazil
This podcast episode delves into the intricate layers and profound themes of Terry Gilliam's cinematic masterpiece, "Brazil." We explore how the film serves as a poignant critique of bureaucracy, illustrating a dystopian world where absurdity permeates daily life. As we dissect the film's visual style and narrative structure, we emphasize the significance of its surrealistic elements, allowing viewers to perceive the world through a lens that questions authority and societal norms. The conversation also touches upon the film's historical context, relating its relevance to contemporary issues. Ultimately, we celebrate "Brazil" not merely as a film but as a catalyst for introspection and dialogue regarding the human condition in an increasingly mechanized society.
Kyle was honored to be joined by Seth Keys and our guest host, Mozart Gabriel, who most recently directed Metallica's music video "Inamorata."
More on Mozart: Gabriel is the son of Native American famous artist Tony Abeyta, and up runner Project Runway season 11 star Patricia Michaels. Born in Santa Fé NM. Gabriel was raised in Chicago IL, till the age of 5 and moved back to his native Reservation Taos NM. From 2000-2003 Gabriel was home school in the fine arts in Venice Italy by his mother and his father who attended his Masters in NYU. Gabriel took part in theater in New York, and landed small parts with Nickelodeon, a Nisa commercial, and the Ron Howard film The Missing. Gabriel was A student for the 3 years he attended in Landmark School for his struggles in Dyslexia. Soon after he spent 2 years at the Chicago Academy of The Art's for Music and Media Arts. Graduating from From Vancouver Film School in 2012, along with his acceptance as a Sundance Institute Fellowship Writer. He worked in Nashville TN for 2 years producing Music Videos, for The Foxies, Stereo Specter, and Hannah Aldridge.
Enjoy ads from our friends over at Revisionist Almanac and Greatest Movie of All-Time Podcast.
The discourse surrounding Terry Gilliam's cinematic opus, Brazil, offers a profound exploration of the absurdity and intricacies of modern bureaucratic systems. The film serves as a critical lens through which we can examine the dystopian realities of a society ensnared by its own convoluted regulations and technological advancements. As the protagonists navigate a world rife with inefficiencies, the narrative unveils the most critical takeaways: the perils of complacency within an authoritative structure and the inherent folly of a system that prioritizes conformity over individuality. The podcast encapsulates these themes, reflecting on the film's darkly comedic portrayal of a future that mirrors contemporary anxieties about governmental overreach and the dehumanization that ensues from an over-reliance on technology. Each speaker articulates their personal connection to the film, revealing how its surrealistic yet familiar landscape resonates with their own experiences of navigating modern societal expectations.
Takeaways:
- The film 'Brazil' serves as a profound critique of bureaucracy, highlighting the absurdity of an overly complex system that stifles individuality and creativity.
- The cinematography in 'Brazil' effectively creates a surreal atmosphere, immersing the audience in a dystopian world filled with chaotic yet visually stunning imagery.
- Terry Gilliam's unique storytelling approach blends humor with dark themes, encouraging viewers to reflect on the implications of technological advancements and societal norms.
- The performances in 'Brazil' are exceptional, with each actor embracing the absurdity of their roles, contributing to the film's overall impact and memorability.
Companies mentioned in this episode:
- Terry Gilliam
- Hunter S. Thompson
- Johnny Depp
- Monty Python
- David Lynch
- Christopher Nolan
- Scarlett Johansson
- Akira
- Hayao Miyazaki
- Disney
- Ghost in the Shell
Mentioned in this episode:
The Greatest Movie Of All-Time Podcast
Thankful for our friends over at The Greatest Movie Of All Time podcast. Brilliant, go check them out.
Transcript
Foreign.
Speaker A:Ladies and gentlemen, welcome back to the Movie wars podcast.
Speaker A:We're back with Seth, and our friend Mozart's back.
Speaker A:What's up, baby?
Speaker B:How's it going, everybody?
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:If you listen to our before the devil knows you're dead, he was fantastic on there, and he's joining us for Brazil today.
Speaker C:I am so excited.
Speaker C:This is my number four movie ever made made as far as my top 100 are concerned.
Speaker A:That's awesome.
Speaker C:I first saw this movie.
Speaker C:My best friend growing up, John, he.
Speaker C:He loved the movie and introduced me to it when I was probably 16 or 17, and it just completely blew my mind and changed the way I looked at how a film could be made in general.
Speaker C:Just the absurdist side of things, but also the intricate choreography of some of the shots and the things people were doing in the shots.
Speaker C:Like, there's so much we're going to be able to talk about.
Speaker C:I'm so excited.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:I was shocked.
Speaker A:And Seth and I keep a list.
Speaker A:We have this list of thousands of movies we want to cover, and we kind of.
Speaker A:Every time we decide episodes, we kind of split up.
Speaker A:I pick one off my list.
Speaker A:You pick one, or we do a franchise.
Speaker A:But I saw this movie on your list, and I was kind of shocked I hadn't seen it because I do love Terry Gilliam.
Speaker A:My favorite author of all time is Hunter S.
Speaker A:Thompson, and he directed Fear and loathing in Las Vegas with Johnny Depp, the adaptation.
Speaker A:And then, of course, 12 Monkeys was the first movie I ever saw by him, and that movie completely blew my mind.
Speaker C:And then Time Bandits.
Speaker C:Such a great, fun, pre Goonies kind of story.
Speaker C:So good.
Speaker C:And then we were talking about this on the way over.
Speaker C:The Imaginarium of Dr.
Speaker C:Parnassus.
Speaker C:Heath Ledger's the last film that he died during.
Speaker C:It is a masterpiece.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:You guys are also forgetting Baron Munchausen.
Speaker C:Oh, yeah.
Speaker B:You guys ever seen Baron?
Speaker A:I haven't, but I have.
Speaker C:I've heard of it.
Speaker B:Goodness, it's a good one.
Speaker B:So he's also done.
Speaker B:Man, there's some great movies out.
Speaker C:I mean, Monty Python.
Speaker C:We have to talk about that.
Speaker C:Like, he.
Speaker B:You know, it's the only thing I have to be not excited about.
Speaker C:Oh, really?
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:I don't love it either.
Speaker C:I have to be in the mood for it.
Speaker B:You know, the thing is, is that I've.
Speaker B:I always thought that the.
Speaker B:The humor was never for me, I thought was really silly.
Speaker B:But I also.
Speaker B:What is it?
Speaker B:I did this.
Speaker B:I think it kind of ruined the Spanish Inquisition too.
Speaker B:Nobody ever takes it that serious.
Speaker B:Serious.
Speaker B:And you know, the thing is, is that, like, people always treat the Spanish Inquisition as, like, a really bad thing.
Speaker B:I mean, like a really, like, funny, silly, like, oh, let's not take that serious.
Speaker B:And then, you know, being Native American, you end up realizing, man, this is what caused so much torture to Native Americans from New Mexico.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:I didn't realize the history of the Spanish Inquisition.
Speaker B:And did you.
Speaker B:Side note, you want.
Speaker B:Maybe want to keep this or not keep this, but did you know that the.
Speaker B:The.
Speaker B:The original KKK outfit comes from the Spanish Inquisition?
Speaker C:I did know that, actually.
Speaker A:Really?
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker A:It's not.
Speaker A:Some redneck in Alabama is like, I need a sheet.
Speaker B:No, no, no, no, no.
Speaker B:For some weird reason, I live in Barcelona.
Speaker B:You see, the outfits are like, wait, why is this?
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:And then the.
Speaker B:The people in Spain are like, oh, you know, it has nothing to do with that.
Speaker B:No, it does.
Speaker B:In the Spanish Inquisition, Queen Isabella's brother was.
Speaker B:Was ruler before that, and he was just awful.
Speaker B:And so there's all these crooks and criminals.
Speaker B:No, but the Spanish Inquisition, there were.
Speaker B:The people who were torturing the Jews at that time would wear these.
Speaker B:These outfits in the oldest paintings.
Speaker B:And so in the oldest paintings, they'd be burning Jews, torturing them, putting them on these, like, awful, crazy.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:Did not know this.
Speaker B:Insane.
Speaker B:And so I feel like it's interesting when we think about humor and ignorance.
Speaker B:And I love Terry Gilliam.
Speaker B:I love Terry Gilliam so, so, so, so, so much.
Speaker B:The one thing I love about him is that what you say is that storytelling, story, structure, his way of, you know, rising to the rising action and to the downfall are so unbelievably creative.
Speaker B:It's so subconscious, so surreal.
Speaker B:I am a surrealistic filmmaker.
Speaker B:I love David lynch and I love Terry Gilliam for the amount of surrealism they put.
Speaker B:That feels dreamlike, feels out of this world, feels like it can't be explained, but it can be interpreted for so many people to come in and make something of their own.
Speaker B:And it's incredibly magical.
Speaker C:And I think this is a particularly incredible example of all of that.
Speaker C:Like, transporting you to a world that feels familiar but also feels a bit fantastical.
Speaker C:The dream sequences throughout the whole movie are just some of the best art I have ever seen in my life.
Speaker C:I.
Speaker C:It's as good as some of the best paintings I've ever seen in the world.
Speaker B:He's a total nutcase to work with.
Speaker B:Oh, yeah, yeah.
Speaker B:You guys see Lost?
Speaker B:LA Mantra, right?
Speaker A:I haven't.
Speaker C:Oh, the documentary about that.
Speaker B:Yeah, the documentary about what it's like to work with him.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:Nutcase totally needs everything real, which I love.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:And you know, when you watch this movie, the built sets and like, this is.
Speaker B:You and I were just talking about this before is fuck cgi.
Speaker A:Fuck it.
Speaker C:Fuck it.
Speaker B:And there's.
Speaker B:What CGI doesn't capture is it doesn't capture gravity.
Speaker B:I have a master screen stop motion animation because I hate CGI so much.
Speaker B:And I, I just, I love.
Speaker B:There's a, there's a, there's a shot in the beginning also about built sets.
Speaker B:I love production design and miniatures and everything.
Speaker B:Everything about this movie is like, love you, love you, love you, love you, love you.
Speaker B:There's a lower angle.
Speaker B:And that's the other great thing about cinematography is being able to, like, have these happy accidents of, like, him before he hits the fly and before it hits the typewriter.
Speaker B:Yeah, the, the typewriter is on the side angle and there's like these paper coming down and it's looking up and it's such an incredibly beautiful shot.
Speaker B:You're like, oh, wow.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:And you know, it's, it's, it's, it's all.
Speaker B:There's so.
Speaker B:I mean, miniature sets too.
Speaker B:And like with gravity, once again, you know, when he's flying up there and he's looking at the landscape and then the landscape starts, all of that slow motion, dirt falling down, gravity, it feels, you know, it's real.
Speaker B:Even though some people will be like, oh, look at how homemade and silly that is.
Speaker A:Like, right.
Speaker B:Oh, but it's so much more real.
Speaker C:And it's, it's the point, like the, the point of keeping it as real as possible is, is not only just gravity, but also with animation, with, with computer animation, there is always going to be that uncanny valley.
Speaker C:Even if you're animating a ship or an inanimate object, and it's not people, there's still always something there where your brain knows it's not real.
Speaker C:But the moment you have the same thing done.
Speaker C:A great example, the original version of the second Star wars movie, Episode five, the Millennium Falcon, in that versus in the remade versions, the special editions, you can tell that it's animated.
Speaker C:You can tell that he went back with a computer and just put it over the original puppet, you know, set piece that he had built that was the exterior of the Millennium Falcon.
Speaker C:And it's so much cheaper.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker C:Because of it.
Speaker B:But do you also think that that's just the generation we come from?
Speaker B:We, we grew up in the generation of, of seeing, like, I Grew up loving old Sinbad movies.
Speaker B:Ray Harryhausen.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker B:Ray Harryhausen is so, you know, that's every moment of that.
Speaker B:Do you think.
Speaker B:Do you wonder and think that the new generation who grew up with cinema, with cgi and that's what they know.
Speaker B:Do you think they look back at these movies and think, oh, this is like, gross?
Speaker C:I think it depends.
Speaker C:I genuinely think it depends.
Speaker C:Because you.
Speaker C: You look at the: Speaker C:And then you look at Peter Jackson's King Kong.
Speaker C:All three.
Speaker B:I know you love Peter Jackson.
Speaker C:I do.
Speaker C:But I'm using this example for a very specific reason.
Speaker C:Because all three of them have very different avenues of how they made Kong work.
Speaker C: have full out stop motion in: Speaker C:You have a dude in a monkey suit in the 70s.
Speaker C:And then you have Peter Jackson, who legitimately, to this day, the animation for Kong himself stands above anything I have seen in the last 15 years.
Speaker C:And even with that, though, there's still something about that old stop motion that I just.
Speaker C:I can't get over.
Speaker C:Like, it's so beautiful and it still feels real.
Speaker C:Because it is real.
Speaker C:Like, I don't know.
Speaker C:I.
Speaker C:I do have a feeling that people who are used to the cartoony look of the Marvel movies and superhero movies that are so prevalent today might just think that that's what a movie is.
Speaker C:But then you also have those same people who watch Christopher Nolan movies.
Speaker C:As he is one of the only ones making these gigantic movies and trying to do everything that he can in camera.
Speaker C:And I see people watch those movies and comment on those movies with awe and wonder.
Speaker C:Because you don't really have anyone else blowing up a plane as it crashes into a building at an airport.
Speaker C:Or a filmmaker who's going to practically recreate the look of an atomic bomb.
Speaker C:Like, I think looking back, once we get through this kind of superhero phase that is very reminiscent of the spaghetti Western phase.
Speaker C:I think people are going to start wanting to bring the scale back down and bring things more in camera again.
Speaker B:I hope so.
Speaker C:I hope so so much.
Speaker B:It seems to be more creative and more realistic for me.
Speaker B:I think that, you know, CGI has always been.
Speaker B:We've just been having to watch it get developed.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:You know, I love what the animator from Ghost of the Shell said in that movie, the CGI version.
Speaker B:I, you know, someone who is Native American and brown and also, you know, animator lover.
Speaker B:It's okay for Scarlett Johansson to be the ghost in the Shell.
Speaker B:She's a fucking robot.
Speaker B:He's not Asian.
Speaker B:Yeah, he made it very clear he was inspired by American elements.
Speaker B:And, you know, but he, he thought in his quote of watching the movie, he said, it's interesting to see my, my movie come into cgi.
Speaker B:And he was on the set and he says it's like it's still in its development stage.
Speaker B:He's just like, you know, the thing about animation is that it's been going on for such a long time that we've already mastered and perfected it in so many.
Speaker B:And it really has.
Speaker B:I mean, you know, drawing animation has been mastered and perfected to so many elements.
Speaker B:You watch old Disney movies, you watch some anime movies.
Speaker B:You know, Ghost in the Shell is a really beautiful animated film.
Speaker B:Akira is a beautiful animated film.
Speaker B:Miyazaki's are so beautifully animated as well.
Speaker B:You know, I've never seen a CGI movie and have been like, oh, damn.
Speaker B:You know, it's just it all and it's, it was spoiled for me in our generation because of Transformers.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:You know, that was such a big.
Speaker B:In your face just looks like fucking farts.
Speaker B:It looks like computered farts just in your face the whole entire time.
Speaker B:Or, you know, how about my first introduction to CGI was Power Rangers the Ooze.
Speaker B:You know, it's, it's so terrible.
Speaker B:It's really bad.
Speaker B:Or like the Mummy.
Speaker B:Oh, man.
Speaker C:I literally just rewatched those a couple months ago and it is egregious how bad.
Speaker C:The animation is terrible.
Speaker B:And, and we can.
Speaker B:We all are here talking about these really ugly moments of CGI that don't feel like they're made with love.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:They feel like they're made with insecurity.
Speaker B:And then we can go and look at this movie and say, you can look and see how homemade all of these little pipes are in.
Speaker B:But it's so made with love.
Speaker C:Oh, yeah.
Speaker B:There's so much.
Speaker B:I mean, it's like there's a difference between, you know, let's use cgi because it might save money.
Speaker B:I don't know if it did for some people or like, but it just seems like McDonald's compared to going to a really delicious home cooked meal.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:Would you want to go eat at McDonald's?
Speaker B:I love McDonald's.
Speaker B:Or would you like to go eat a delicious home cooked meal from your grandma?
Speaker B:You know, and that's, that's the difference between the two.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker C: ic park up through maybe like: Speaker C:For whatever reason.
Speaker C:And, and, and I do feel like part of it was the best filmmakers utilizing CGI at the time were using it to enhance and T2.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:T2 especially.
Speaker C:But they were using to enhance and not to make the movie.
Speaker C:They were just using it to do the things that they could not physically do.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker C:And there was that 12 year period where it all looked really good.
Speaker C:And then as soon as it became the method for filmmaking is when everything just has this weird, weird washed out, cartoony look.
Speaker A:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker A:And it had to be made with love, like James Cameron talks about.
Speaker A:I talk about T2 is one of the best films ever made to me.
Speaker A:And.
Speaker A:But James Cameron talked about like for four seconds of CGI in that film, it took like three days to render four seconds of cgi.
Speaker A:So.
Speaker A:And you had to love it.
Speaker A:That was because you were in.
Speaker C:That was 94, 92.
Speaker C:Okay.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker C:So yeah, that would have been right before Jurassic Park.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:Maybe, maybe 12, 15 years where it was just unexplicably incredible.
Speaker C:But yeah, I think it's because it was sparingly used.
Speaker C:It was used where it had to be.
Speaker C:Instead of making the whole thing about that, you still supplemented things with real dinosaurs, you know, real animatronics.
Speaker C:And then when you couldn't move the animatronic the way you needed it to move, that's when they went to cgi.
Speaker B:So it's so exciting seeing animatronics.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:You know, and it's so exciting to see stop motion.
Speaker B:It's so exciting to see miniatures.
Speaker B:You know, it's just like, it brings back child innocence and wonder and creativity.
Speaker B:It's just when you watch cgi, it's just, it's there.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:There's no imagination between any of it.
Speaker B:You know, we all as little kids, grab a cup, use some scissors, poke a hole, and then start drawing.
Speaker B:Like it's going to be some fortress tower that we're going to like build a fortress and have archers go on the top and start killing everybody who's going to take our little tiny tower fortress from the cup away.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:You know, and it's just like that develops so much of a story right then and there where then like the CGI is like, huh.
Speaker A:Yep.
Speaker B:That's nice.
Speaker C:I know you have complicated feelings when it comes to Christopher Nolan, but oh my goodness, when I discovered.
Speaker C:Because they just announced this in the.
Speaker B:Last couple, I'm actually excited for it.
Speaker C:The Odyssey is going to be insane.
Speaker B:I think so too.
Speaker C:Did you see that?
Speaker C:The.
Speaker C:The cyclops is going to be a 6 meter tall animatronic that they're physically building in the cave because it's so big.
Speaker A:Wow.
Speaker C:Like, that kind of shit is what I'm pumped about.
Speaker B:I'm stoked for it too.
Speaker B:I love Christopher Nolan.
Speaker B:I just hate Opperheimer.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker A:Yeah, that's it.
Speaker B:That's a whole new.
Speaker A:It's a huge missed op in Hyper Hymer Tunity.
Speaker B:You know, if you.
Speaker B:If you really ever want to hear my opinions about it, I have a one minute song.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:Called Opera.
Speaker C:Very solid song.
Speaker B:And it's a badass punk song because.
Speaker B:And I made it one minute.
Speaker B:And just to sum up that movie.
Speaker A:I heard it's the bomb.
Speaker A:Your song.
Speaker A:Sorry.
Speaker A:Slow level.
Speaker B:Cheese.
Speaker B:So that was great.
Speaker B:That was great.
Speaker B:Thank you.
Speaker A:So get back on Brazil here.
Speaker A:Yes.
Speaker A:A couple of notes that I have is first of all, one thing I love about Gilliam and I don't have the technicality.
Speaker A:I'll call it Fisheye.
Speaker A:The fisheye lens filmmaking, where you are right in the face of what's happening.
Speaker A:The actors like Bruce Willis and 12 Monkeys, like, because of that close up.
Speaker A:Jonathan Price here.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker A:You feel like you're kind of like.
Speaker C:In the Coen Brothers do that a lot.
Speaker C:Yeah, they purposely.
Speaker C:I saw some interviews where they were talking about Hail Caesar, actually.
Speaker C:And one of the ways.
Speaker C:And I think they also did this a lot in Burn After Reading.
Speaker C:But one of the ways they really want to bring you in close to the actors is they very purposefully use low millimeter lenses.
Speaker C:They'll use like a 25 or 35 millimeter film and physically put the camera as close to the actor as they can.
Speaker C:But like that way their hands are like really big when they get close to the camera.
Speaker C:But like the person almost feels larger than life.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:He did that a lot in Fear and Loathing too.
Speaker A:The car scenes in Fear and Loathing.
Speaker A:Terry Gilliam did it like where.
Speaker A:Where Johnny Depp would turn around and, you know, Hunter.
Speaker A:Hunter S.
Speaker A:Thompson, like the character is based on him.
Speaker A:And Depp became friends with him to, you know, really good friends, in fact.
Speaker A:So much so he kind of got lost in that Persona.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker A:For that movie.
Speaker A:And didn't really come back all the way according to him.
Speaker A:And especially with all the mescaline in the back of the car and stuff.
Speaker A:But, you know, when he turns around with the.
Speaker A:The cigarette.
Speaker A:With.
Speaker A:What's the thing called?
Speaker A:The cigarette holder they used to use.
Speaker C:Oh, yeah.
Speaker C:Literally that.
Speaker C:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker A:And he's literally just like, his face.
Speaker A:Face is just right there.
Speaker A:You're like, whoa.
Speaker A:Yeah, I love that.
Speaker A:And two, I think this is maybe Dystopia has a huge range.
Speaker A:I think this may be my favorite.
Speaker A:My new favorite dystopic.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Interpretation.
Speaker A:Because it really does feel like what it would feel like.
Speaker A:The doesn't work, stuff's broken, but you're forced to use it.
Speaker A:And I love how, like.
Speaker A:And I texted you about this yesterday.
Speaker A:It was very profound to me at the end with the torture scene, because it was like, yes.
Speaker A:It may seem on the outside like this regime is regimented and it's dystopic and it's authoritarian and it seems like there's rules, but the minute that something tries to.
Speaker A:The dreamer.
Speaker A:I call Jonathan Prices, even though his name is Sam.
Speaker A:He's like, the dreamer.
Speaker A:Yeah, the dreamer is challenging that.
Speaker A:So, yeah, we have rules and stuff, but if you're going to try to get outside of our system, we're going to completely break our own rules and squash you.
Speaker C:Well, that's the thing is.
Speaker C:Well, it's like I don't even see them breaking their own rules.
Speaker C:They're using the rules to avoid blame.
Speaker C:Like that whole conversation between Sam and Ian home where they're trying to figure out the mistake of getting Buttle killed or tunnel killed.
Speaker C:Like.
Speaker C:Like that whole scene is literally them going through the rules to figure out if they were actually to blame for the mistake.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker C:And it turns out that they weren't.
Speaker C:So they're like, perfect.
Speaker C:We can avoid all responsibility because there's so much red tape that everyone has to get through.
Speaker A:And he tried to get out of it by she's technically dead.
Speaker A:You know, he's trying to get.
Speaker A:He's trying to use the rules, too.
Speaker A:It's like a battle of rules.
Speaker C:I always tell people that this movie is dystopian sci fi before it became a young adult like, theme.
Speaker C:I think the Hunger Games kind of ruined dystopian sci fi in a lot of ways.
Speaker C:This, again, it just lends itself to the absurd style that Terry Gilliam loves to make films through.
Speaker C:Like, everything, just as I said earlier, feels larger than life.
Speaker C:Everything, even down to, like, how there's just fucking vents everywhere and tubes just going all over the place.
Speaker C:Like, yeah, the.
Speaker C:When they're at the restaurant and.
Speaker C:And.
Speaker C:And the guy is just like, what would you like to eat?
Speaker C:And he's pointing at the menu.
Speaker A:Say the number.
Speaker C:Say the number.
Speaker C:Two.
Speaker C:Like, so funny.
Speaker C:It's so good.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:You know what's amazing about Terry Gilliam, he's a rule breaker.
Speaker B:And I love how much rules we get to break.
Speaker B:And within.
Speaker B:You know, you go to film school, you know, having the three masters and graduating in film school, there's so many dumb rules.
Speaker B:And with Terry Gilliam, you get to break all those rules and you get to.
Speaker B:And they're all justified because it's so cartoonish, it's so surreal, it's so silly and it's so creative.
Speaker B:And the other thing I love about this movie, and I love about real prop sets is every shot looks like an amazing painting and none of it makes sense.
Speaker C:I was gonna say the exact same thing.
Speaker B:You know, you look at the mother with the heel as the hat.
Speaker B:It's so great.
Speaker B:And then the plastic surgery and it's almost.
Speaker B:The movie is like, it's timeless.
Speaker B:And it also speaks a lot about our future today.
Speaker B:You know, seeing all those TV screens and everybody.
Speaker B:I love that that comment is like, what's playing on today?
Speaker B:Casablanca.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:And you're just like, okay, so what world are.
Speaker B:What age and what date are we in?
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:And it's, I mean, this is, this is iPhones before iPhones.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker C:Seriously though.
Speaker C:And it's shockingly relevant today.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:And then the, the grandmas with obsessed with the plastic surgery is California today.
Speaker C:Oh, 100%.
Speaker B:And you know, it's, it's, it is.
Speaker C:The Kardashians before the Kardashians.
Speaker B:Oh, yeah.
Speaker B:And it's, it just speaks in such volumes about, you know, like, I can't believe we project the future in some kind of way and older projects and it, but then I was watching it makes me terrified about like, what have we been saying for years?
Speaker B:Is that going to come and happen to our future now?
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:Like, you know, I think about so many apocalyptic end of the world movies and I'm just wondering, are we heading that direction?
Speaker B:I hope that like some.
Speaker B:Because this film makes me feel like, wow, you spoke so much before it even happened.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:And before this was even a thought.
Speaker B:And like, I watch older movies that I think about that and I, I love Terry Gilliam for his juxtaposition.
Speaker B:And you talked about that camera.
Speaker B:My first camera that I got to work with that was gifted to me was a mini DVX100, that skateboarder camera.
Speaker B:And it's got a beautiful lens on it.
Speaker B:It's a Leica lens.
Speaker B:And my favorite thing about it was getting up close and personal.
Speaker B:My first, my first.
Speaker B:The first time I made without a darker reflection when I was 18, it was all very close and personal.
Speaker B:Just like that.
Speaker B:And the amount of, you know, getting there, it's such a.
Speaker B:An independent, vulnerable way of filmmaking, and it.
Speaker B:It also grabs your actors to feel really like they have to commit to it.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:Like you're under a microscope.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:Every little minute facial expression is going to be so big.
Speaker B:And.
Speaker B:Yeah, it's that.
Speaker B:It almost feels like that fisheye, too, because it's just, like, suffocating.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:It's so wide, but close.
Speaker A:Yeah, I love that.
Speaker B:I love it, too.
Speaker A:You may be a rule follower out there.
Speaker A:You want to break the rules?
Speaker A:Send this podcast to your friends.
Speaker A:Send it to your grandma if you really want to break the rules.
Speaker A:If you don't want to fall into dystopian technological anarchy, send this to a friend.
Speaker A:Although it's kind of funny we're saying that without technology, we couldn't make a podcast.
Speaker A:I'm doing this on a phone digital interface, all that.
Speaker A:That being said, you don't want to fall into a dystopic universe.
Speaker A:Send this to a friend.
Speaker C:You got a plastic surgery friend.
Speaker C:Send this to them.
Speaker A:Maybe your friend's got big lips.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker A:And they're not real big lips.
Speaker A:They're fake.
Speaker A:The.
Speaker A:The injected kind.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker A:Send it to her.
Speaker A:Him.
Speaker A:They.
Speaker B:All.
Speaker A:The questions.
Speaker A:I really just have one question here.
Speaker A:I'm not just asking this because.
Speaker A:Because Bob Hoskins is in this, but did anyone else get major Mario Brother vibes in some of the things?
Speaker B:That movie so bad it's.
Speaker B:It's.
Speaker B:It's banned on all platforms right now still, right?
Speaker A:Mario Brothers.
Speaker A:Yeah, I think so.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:You have to buy.
Speaker B:You have to buy the VHS or the.
Speaker C:The DVD of it.
Speaker B:Very expensive.
Speaker C:Oh, sure.
Speaker A:It's one of the most chaotic films of all time.
Speaker B:I love that movie.
Speaker B:I remember going to Blockbuster with my grandma and we picked up that movie.
Speaker B:And, you know, here's the thing.
Speaker B:I grew up knowing Dennis Hopper.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:And so I grew up.
Speaker B:Dennis Hopper lived across the street from our house.
Speaker B:So I grew up with Henry, his son.
Speaker B:And it was.
Speaker B:My parents are so messed up.
Speaker B:My.
Speaker B:The first movie I ever watched my whole entire life was Aladdin at the theaters.
Speaker B:Second movie, Blue Velvet.
Speaker A:Oh, God.
Speaker B:My parents raised me on Blue Velvet and Twin Peaks.
Speaker B:And then the third movie I watched, guess what it was Gummoe.
Speaker A:Oh, my God.
Speaker B:And so I was permanently traumatized by Six'sEven and then it was just weird seeing, like, mommy, baby wants to fuck, you know, and then running into Dennis in real life and being like, yeah, wow, okay.
Speaker B:That's your dad.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:And it's just like.
Speaker B:And my family was always so artistic and so it was really easy to quickly adapt to, to and, and be exposed to a lot of that stuff.
Speaker B:So I, that's the other reason why I love that Marrow's Mario movie.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:And it's.
Speaker B:Everyone says it's such a film and I haven't seen it, but I, when I was a kid, I watched it 500 times.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:I just, I thought it was so cool and fun and creative and I love all the actors in that movie.
Speaker C:I've still never seen it.
Speaker C:Oh yeah.
Speaker C:I might have to find.
Speaker C:Grab myself a VCR and try to find it.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Well, Hopper felt unfortunately, and I don't know if it was like a Nick Cage thing with the IRS or whatever, but he became like.
Speaker A:He did Wicked Prayer.
Speaker A:But for me, he's always been the, the journalist in Apocalypse now, where he delivers the most incredible improv in film history, in my opinion.
Speaker B:Oh, yes.
Speaker A:That was all improv, this stuff, and a lot of it was taken out.
Speaker A:But him talking to Martin Sheen in the bamboo cage, that's all drug fueled improv.
Speaker A:And to me, when I found out, I'm like, he was just making that stuff up.
Speaker A:He's talking about the cosmos and he's just talking and I'm just like, oh my God, this is one of our best actors.
Speaker A:And then like you look.
Speaker A:But then his, his filmography just takes this weird middle, this weird tanking in the middle.
Speaker A:Kind of like Cage.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:Cage got taken over, then he came back up for air.
Speaker A:So it's always I have this weird relationship with Hopper.
Speaker B:Me too.
Speaker B:You know, what was the other one where he's on the bus for a long.
Speaker B:Keanu Reeves is on the bus.
Speaker A:Speed.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Whoa.
Speaker B:That movie.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:Anyways, back to Terry Gilliam.
Speaker B:But it's, it's good that we're talking about all these other things because Terry Gilliam is that wild.
Speaker B:He opens the door for us to talk about all the other crazy things.
Speaker B:Because that's the kind of filmmaker.
Speaker B:If you're a filmmaker and you make amazing crazy things, it inspires you to, to love and appreciate other things.
Speaker B:This is what we talk about when we're, we're breaking rules.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:When we get to break rules, we get to talk about Dennis Hopper, we get to talk about Nicholas Cage, other rule breakers.
Speaker B:These are people who are really doing things that are out of the ordinary.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:And we tend to make fun of them for it.
Speaker B:We tend to think that it's Silly.
Speaker B:And it's not.
Speaker B:It's just an art form.
Speaker B:And when we get to appreciate an art form, it's what has ruined film and what has ruined music today is people thinking that there's a fucking formula.
Speaker B:And there's no such thing as a formula.
Speaker B:Oh, let's figure out what the formula, especially living in Nashville, working with all the music people for music videos.
Speaker B:Like, well, what's the formula about, like, getting a real good hit?
Speaker B:What's the hook?
Speaker B:Yeah, what's this?
Speaker B:It's just like, just listening to your talk is like, yeah, like, who wants to listen to that?
Speaker A:Right?
Speaker B:Like.
Speaker B:And it's the worst thing about record labels too, is that you think that, you know, it's.
Speaker B:You think the audience actually knows what they want.
Speaker B:And I, And I have to tell you, most of the time, the audience.
Speaker B:Audience doesn't know what they want.
Speaker B:And this is why I get upset about James Cameron and Christopher Nolan.
Speaker B:I mean, I will go on for hours talking about how Oppraheimer is.
Speaker B:Was great, you know, great advertisement to tell you and make you believe that this movie was that great.
Speaker B:You know?
Speaker B:Who in the fuck uses an IMAX movie to shoot you in a location like this?
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:You're in New Mexico, my hometown, on my Native American reservation.
Speaker B:And you show no landscape shops.
Speaker B:No landscape shops at all.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:Like, imagine getting the phone call and being all like, you're gonna be in the new Christopher Nolan film as the dp.
Speaker B:Guys, I just got the new Christopher Nolan film I'm gonna be the DP for.
Speaker B:It's like, congratulations, that's amazing.
Speaker B:He's like, where are you guys shooting?
Speaker B:New Mexico.
Speaker B:Oh, my God, that's brilliant.
Speaker B:You're gonna have so much fun.
Speaker B:Get on the day of the set.
Speaker B:What are we shooting?
Speaker B:I like this.
Speaker B:This one room in here.
Speaker B:Let's take out all the books out of the bookshelf.
Speaker C:Even the one time they're out in the landscapes of New Mexico, it's literally a five second sweeping shot.
Speaker C:And then immediately it's nighttime and they're in the.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:And I want to let you know, the rest of us who are in New Mexico, in the film industry, we all fucking hate this film.
Speaker B:We all think it's a piece of shit.
Speaker A:I go to Albuquerque every year because I have family there.
Speaker A:And, like, I land, I'm just like, like overwhelmed by it.
Speaker A:Like when you just.
Speaker A:Even just looking out the airport window when you land, you're like, holy shit, this is vast.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:And what a great marketing scheme and a really Great marketing tactic to be like, oh, let's just hang on the coattails of Barbie.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:You know, it's just like, let's save budget.
Speaker B:Let's save budget and just say, let's call it Barbeheimer.
Speaker B:You know, like we can save more budget and then pay more people to give us great reviews.
Speaker B:Just like what James Cameron does for every single one of his films.
Speaker B:And we start to think that this is, this is what I mean by.
Speaker B:You know, sometimes your audience doesn't know what they want and they, they'll go and say like, they have to be told to like something.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:Which is always strange for us artists and filmmakers because we, we have to kind of push the envelope.
Speaker B:And then there's some filmmakers who are just like, well, no, this was, this is what works, this is what sells.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:I was like, if you're going in to filmmaking just to make money, then I don't want to watch your movie.
Speaker B:I love this scene when the.
Speaker B:All the papers start trapping Robert De Niro.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:Such a good.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:Oh, I just got to tear my eye off.
Speaker A:It was heartbreaking.
Speaker A:You know, it was appearance wise.
Speaker A:It was comedic.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker A:Because it's papers, but you get it by that point in the movie and then.
Speaker A:But also heartbreaking because he's our, he's our one hero, he's our one source of light.
Speaker A:He's the only antithesis here in a system.
Speaker C:You know, there's so much.
Speaker B:And I love how you know that.
Speaker B:I don't know how many films did it before the.
Speaker B:That we get to see the two endings.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:The happy ending and the sad ending.
Speaker C:Which actually leads me to my question.
Speaker C:I have one question for this.
Speaker C:Where do you think the psychosis actually begins?
Speaker C:Because the obvious answer is the psychosis begins the moment he gets in the torture chair.
Speaker C:But I could see a very strong argument being made that the entire film is him in the psychosis.
Speaker C:That everything that happens is.
Speaker C:Is him and his brain trying to reconcile what's about to happen to him.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker C:So where do you, where do you think the psychosis began?
Speaker A:God, that.
Speaker A:I asked myself that several times during a movie and I.
Speaker A:The way that Terry Gilliam.
Speaker A:So by the way, one of the best commentaries ever.
Speaker A:It was such a good commentary.
Speaker A:It actually.
Speaker C:You're welcome for finding that on YouTube.
Speaker A:By the way, because I bought a.
Speaker A:I went out and found.
Speaker A:Found an overpriced Blu ray that said it had the commentary and didn't, which pissed me off because I'm obsessed with commentaries.
Speaker A:But he talks about it, and, and to him, the, that's the victory moment, where he sees the ending as a victory, where even though they took his body, he died and he, he died and moved on in his imagination and in his dreaming.
Speaker A:And he sees that as his final victory.
Speaker A:Even though the system technically wins by take killing him and torturing him, he, he dies and he's in his dream permanently.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker A:And so that to me speaks that, that probably is the moment.
Speaker A:But I think, I think to me, I, I, I'll just anecdotally answer from my perspective as a dreaming person.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker A:I think they probably, the system probably would.
Speaker A:If they looked at him at any given time during a movie, they would say he's in a state of psychosis.
Speaker A:They would diagnose him as that because he's disinterested in the thing that we should all care about, which is the system.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker A:But his dreaming is what sets him apart.
Speaker A:And so I think, I think he's God.
Speaker A:It's really hard to answer.
Speaker A:Like, I think the system would say he's in psychosis, but I do think it is.
Speaker A:There's a clear moment where, where the chair wins and that's where he's permanently in it.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker A:That's just my own perspective.
Speaker A:It's hard, though.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker A:Especially because the imagery is so out of this world.
Speaker C:Absolutely.
Speaker C:That's where I'm like, it's, I think it is very open to interpretation, even though there is the obvious, like, in story kind of answer.
Speaker C:But like you said, you could kind of look at the whole thing as his psychosis.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:I remember being a kid and I heard the term, your life flashes before your eyes before you die.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:And then I said, so does that mean that we're living in a loop?
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:Because, like, once you, once you die at the end of that flash, it just starts over and over and over again.
Speaker B:And.
Speaker B:But I love this idea that, you know, that brain, that surrealism and dreams and meditation.
Speaker B:You know, David lynch talks about, you know, meditation in these ideas, and you have to go fishing for them.
Speaker B:And it's, it's so beautiful how they, they come later.
Speaker B:And that's, you know, as a, as a musician, I say that I don't write songs.
Speaker B:Songs write themselves.
Speaker B:And stories will be told when they're ready.
Speaker B:And in order for you to be a good writer for music or filmmaking or script writing, you have to go out and experience the life.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:And you have to go out and just go through it when you're in a terrible relationship with someone and or you're in love with someone.
Speaker B:I remember.
Speaker B:I don't know how many people agree with me on this, but when you're in a relationship with someone, it's really hard to write the love song for them.
Speaker C:It is.
Speaker C:It really is.
Speaker B:And you can't write the love song until it's gone.
Speaker C:Yep.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:And because you're so.
Speaker B:You're so in it.
Speaker B:And then once it ends, that's the story that will be told later.
Speaker B:And I always think that's pretty cool.
Speaker A:Yeah, I love that.
Speaker A:Rando.
Speaker C:Rando.
Speaker C:Mind if I do the first one?
Speaker A:Please.
Speaker C: inal title for this movie was: Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:There's no other reason it is called Brazil other than he needed to change the title and decided to go with the song.
Speaker A:Wow.
Speaker B:Yeah, I always love that because when I was, when I was younger, when I was first making video art pieces from like 11 to 14, because I grew up in Venice, Italy, seeing Bill Viola, Chris Cunningham and going to the lobby in Ali and watching all these really incredible video artists, I always thought his film is naming like a kid.
Speaker B:And so I would name like one of my films called like Vantex or it'd be like, but not Kazoo, she could me or something like that.
Speaker B:And I'm dyslexic, so I don't know how to spell.
Speaker B:And I didn't know how to read and write until I was 14.
Speaker B:And so having to just like type things in.
Speaker B:In my own dyslexic world.
Speaker B:I love when you can just name a movie.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:Because sometimes a movie can just have its own name without having to do with the movie.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:And I, I always love the titles for, for some of my films.
Speaker B:Like, attempts to cure the beginnings of my heart without a darker reflection.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:You know, it's.
Speaker A:It definitely doesn't have to correlate.
Speaker A:There is this weird like, like preface that we have.
Speaker A:Like, the names of things have to correlate.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker A:And it doesn't.
Speaker C:My.
Speaker C:One of my friends, James, he.
Speaker C:He.
Speaker C: Warped Tour with him back in: Speaker C:And someone was asking about how he names his songs and he was just like, well, here's the fun thing, because he does punk rock he was like, the fun thing with punk rock is sometimes you don't even have to write the name of the song about the song at all.
Speaker C:Like, I could just write a song right now and come up with a title called How Bob Barker Killed My Ex Girlfriend's Dog.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker C:And then he finishes the session and his little brother comes up and he's like, you know, you have to write this song now.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker C:And he's like, yes, I do.
Speaker C:And he wrote it and.
Speaker C:And I ended up helping him write some of the music to it.
Speaker C:And it is a fucking banger of a song.
Speaker C:But the.
Speaker C:It has absolutely nothing to do with the title.
Speaker C:It's just.
Speaker C:It's just a funny ass title for this really insanely deep song about not.
Speaker C:Not even someone like ghosting him, but like losing a relationship without even realizing you've lost it until it's completely gone.
Speaker A:Love it.
Speaker C:So, yeah, that's something.
Speaker C:As you said, I absolutely love having that juxtaposition of let's have a really crazy ass title that has nothing to do with anything else and see what people think when they go into it.
Speaker A:Love it.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker A:Next Rando.
Speaker A:That was a good one, by the way.
Speaker C:Thank you.
Speaker A:Especially because we live in a time period where I hear people from both political parties saying everything is Orwellian all the time.
Speaker A:I'm like.
Speaker A:I'm like, my God, it's like, pick a different book.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker A:It's like, God, this is like everything is so goosebumps right now.
Speaker A:This is so R.L.
Speaker A:stein.
Speaker A:Orwell would be rolling.
Speaker C:So Narnia.
Speaker A:Originally the opening of this movie.
Speaker A:And they didn't have budget for it.
Speaker A:But what, what Gilliam wanted was he wanted a beetle in a forest and they wanted to follow the beetle in a tree getting cut down.
Speaker A:And like you're starting to see papers flying around and the papers are coming from the city and that they were going to flow into the city.
Speaker A:And the irony was going to be that this tree was going to go into a factory and be turned into the paper and that the bug would be squashed on the piece of paper in the process of making paper.
Speaker A:And so there was this whole.
Speaker A:Yeah, but they just had no idea how to do it and they didn't have budget for it.
Speaker B:I know Terry Gilliam's imagination is always having to be cut over and over and over again.
Speaker B:He has the wildest ideas.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:I mean, I think that.
Speaker B:I think that happens because he was an animator first.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:And you know, I think those are the things that translating that And I'm an animator too.
Speaker B:And that's why I always end up.
Speaker B:I mean, this is why I love him so much, because I think I relate with him way too much in the.
Speaker B:In the sense that about time my dad starts calling me, but trying to get a hold of Malwig.
Speaker B:Is that he.
Speaker B:Because I started off doing animation, stop motion animation.
Speaker B:So I didn't know how that reality make the movie with the mirrors or a girl's heart exploding and her trying to find all the pieces again.
Speaker B:And it's.
Speaker B:It's always.
Speaker B:We're asking way too much.
Speaker B:And with Terry Gilliam, I think that the.
Speaker B:What I love about the movie too is with the papers.
Speaker B:It's so ahead of its time once again.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:So defined by papers all the time these days.
Speaker B:I know.
Speaker B:You know, because like, my ex.
Speaker B:My ex wife and I, she's Ukrainian, so having to deal with us traveling to Barcelona and other places, it's like we've been defined by papers so much.
Speaker B:You know, we don't even have freedom sometimes because of the amount of papers that we have to get defined by.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:And, you know, especially, you know, rent or being defined by bills.
Speaker B:Being defined by if we have to pay for electricity and bills and, you know, all that stuff.
Speaker B:I say, hey, you want to go out tonight?
Speaker B:I can't.
Speaker B:I gotta pay for electricity.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:I gotta pay for wi fi.
Speaker B:I gotta pay for all this.
Speaker C:You gotta pay for heat.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:And then I.
Speaker B:You know, living in Chicago, oh, my goodness.
Speaker B:You know when you try to get your ID or your passport or anything done, it's like, I love that one scene.
Speaker B:It's like, I need to make a complaint or is it stamped?
Speaker B:I was like, already went there.
Speaker B:Don't even.
Speaker B:You gotta go back.
Speaker B:No.
Speaker B:I remember going to get my passport and bringing all my papers.
Speaker B:And then she's like, nope.
Speaker B:I was just like, come on, please.
Speaker B:She's like, nope, you have to go.
Speaker B:And I was just like, I have everything.
Speaker B:I don't care.
Speaker B:And I was just like, no, please don't.
Speaker B:This is like, you have to make another appointment for next week.
Speaker B:And I was just like, but will you look at it?
Speaker B:No.
Speaker C:Oh, my God.
Speaker A:Yep.
Speaker A:Overly regulated.
Speaker B:That happened to me every single time.
Speaker B:And you know, the people at those jobs, anybody who works at that job usually always loves to tell you no.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:It doesn't matter who.
Speaker B:Who you are.
Speaker B:It's like they're just.
Speaker B:They're really always willing to tell you no.
Speaker B:And it just.
Speaker B:It was always heartbreaking.
Speaker B:I was just like, oh, My God, this is so frustrating.
Speaker B:It's heartbreaking to see people who really need to get stuff done.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:You know, well, that's something I absolutely love about this movie is, is the fact that bureaucracy ultimately is the villain.
Speaker C:Like, there is no specific person that's the villain.
Speaker C:It is the system.
Speaker C:And the system has been set up to make sure that anyone who even thinks outside the system fails.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker C:And I think that is something that people have tried to kind of do since.
Speaker C:But I don't think anyone has ever really portrayed it this well before.
Speaker B:What a beautiful.
Speaker B:What a beautiful way for us to bring it back to rule breaking.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:You know, great time to break rules within film story structures on such a structured idea.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker A:This is interesting.
Speaker A:I didn't know this, but Terry Gilliam was a postal worker at one point, and he says the bags that they put over people's heads, and those were inspired by the bags that they would tote mail around.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:So that's why they look like that blue.
Speaker A:And that weird tone, like they're postal bags.
Speaker C:I love it.
Speaker B:So I love the fact that there's, like these police officers with these silver hats.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:Or there's like these army dudes, these SWAT dudes, and then this guy with, like, you know, what does he look like?
Speaker B:It looks like the chocolate factory.
Speaker B:The Willy Wonka the Chocolate Factory dude coming in.
Speaker B:He's just like, well, I love the.
Speaker C:Maintenance guys with, like, the stupid long bills.
Speaker B:I love that.
Speaker C:It's just, again, all of it is so absurd, but none of it feels out of place.
Speaker A:Here's your receipt.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker A:He said too, that, like, in the commentary, there are countries that he would travel to.
Speaker A:And this is where he got the idea where, like, if you got arrested, like, those governments, like, whether or not they were good or bad governments, like, there were just countries, like, randomly that would charge people for getting arrested.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker A:Like, they would charge the money because they felt like you're the nuisance on society.
Speaker A:You need to pay for it.
Speaker C:Yep.
Speaker A:And so that's why he put it.
Speaker A:He put it in here.
Speaker C:I love it.
Speaker C:I.
Speaker C:That.
Speaker C:That one scene where Robert Dairo switches the sewage into the guy's oxygen.
Speaker C:Entire suit just fills up with, oh, that was pretty.
Speaker A:And he's got that little cigar.
Speaker C:He's just like, so good.
Speaker A:You talked about plastic surgery earlier.
Speaker A:Gilliam hates plastic surgeons.
Speaker A:He has a very legit story about this.
Speaker A:His dad.
Speaker A:His dad got.
Speaker A:I mean, Gilliam was how old when he made this for.
Speaker A:And it's probably in his 40s or something.
Speaker A:Yeah, his dad.
Speaker A:So take, you know, take his age and do the math.
Speaker A:His dad got whatever the earliest version of plastic surgery was, cuz he had like an ear issue.
Speaker A:And so.
Speaker A:But he says in a commentary at the time there were two kinds of surgeons.
Speaker A:Cuz it was still like a very new thing.
Speaker A:There were acid men and there were cutting men.
Speaker A:And that's what they called them, acid men and cutting men.
Speaker A:So either they used acid and they used acid on his dad and permanently maimed his ear.
Speaker C:Oh my God.
Speaker A:And so he said for a li.
Speaker A:His whole life.
Speaker A:Life.
Speaker A:He hated plastic surgeons.
Speaker A:So that's why he, he, like a lot of this was a critique of the.
Speaker A:The.
Speaker A:Because in the 80s is when plastic surgery really started to like, become a thing, especially in like Hollywood.
Speaker A:And so he wanted this to be an open critique of that because he actually saw it, how it affected his dad.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker A:When he was young.
Speaker A:So that.
Speaker C:That image of, of Sam hitting the casket and, and the woman's body just gelatinized, just falling out.
Speaker C:It's just.
Speaker C:That has stuck with me since the day I first saw this movie when I was like 16.
Speaker C:Like, it's just, it's such a powerful image of like stop, stop trying to fuck yourself up because you want to look prettier.
Speaker C:Just accept the body that you've been given and try to take care of that.
Speaker A:Yep, man.
Speaker B:Well said.
Speaker B:It's.
Speaker B:It's.
Speaker B:You know, we love talking about the casket part because that was the minute I realized how much it reminded me of Without a darker reflection.
Speaker B:And there's a scene when Vincent.
Speaker B:We didn't put it in the script, but there was a scene where Vincent walks into a room and there's a party happening.
Speaker B:And this is so Terry killing.
Speaker B:There's a party happening.
Speaker B:And Vincent walks into the room trying to find his mirrors and he's.
Speaker B:He's looking around and right underneath the party there's a casket.
Speaker B:And he's buried under the casket and everybody is just dancing above him.
Speaker B:And this is kind of a symbolism of showing that nobody knows he really exists.
Speaker B:Once again, he's going through.
Speaker B:Vincent's going through this episodic moment of.
Speaker B:Through a subconscious.
Speaker B:Am I really alive?
Speaker B:I mean, because like being in the house full of mirrors, he believes without reflection he cannot exist.
Speaker B:And so he's obsessed with looking at himself.
Speaker B:But then if he's the only one that's seen himself, then how does he know anybody else is around?
Speaker B:That's why everybody's having a party and having a good Time.
Speaker B:Why don't you know I'm here?
Speaker B:Why don't you?
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:And it's so.
Speaker B:It's so, like, I, like, man, I think I'm so unique and original.
Speaker B:And then I see Terry Gilliam was like, I know.
Speaker B:I just grew up with a lot of David lynch and Terry Gilliam, and.
Speaker B:And I.
Speaker B:And I love.
Speaker B:I'm so grateful for them.
Speaker B:And, like, it's so funny because, like, I hear us talking about the movie we talked about before, and I.
Speaker B:I could give you more this distinctive criticism, but when it comes to this movie, it's always like, no, I just love you.
Speaker B:I appreciate you.
Speaker B:Like, I really got nothing but to say.
Speaker B:Like, I could talk about other things, but you, on the other hand, you're.
Speaker B:It's like you're compared Terry Gilliam to being like this beautiful.
Speaker B:This beautiful girl who you're in love with and be like, you know, you're just perfect.
Speaker B:No, you're okay.
Speaker B:It's all right.
Speaker B:Terry Gilliam is this gorgeous woman that I just love.
Speaker B:You're my Emma Watson.
Speaker A:It's actually a great parlay into the next Rando, believe it or not.
Speaker C:Hell, yeah.
Speaker A:Because people.
Speaker A:When it came out.
Speaker A:So Gilliam gets frustrated when he says, now, people talk about this movie like it's some kind of, like, meaningful masterpiece, but he says massive amounts of people walked out of the theater when they were.
Speaker A:When it first started.
Speaker A:And.
Speaker A:Yeah, when they were also not.
Speaker A:Not just during test screenings, but when it actually came out in theaters, people would just walk out in droves.
Speaker A:He said it.
Speaker A:So he is.
Speaker A:He was quoted.
Speaker A:Says, what people don't remember is half the audience would walk out.
Speaker A:Now, I'll tell it as a classic, blah, blah, blah.
Speaker A:Bullshit.
Speaker A:They were.
Speaker A:They were walking out.
Speaker A:That's his quote.
Speaker C:Oh, that's amazing.
Speaker B:Well, I mean, that's.
Speaker B:People hate change.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:You know, people hate change so much, and it's the same thing with our government, you know, Like, I make this joke about us moving to electric cars, and I.
Speaker B:You guys are comedians, so you guys will get this.
Speaker B:It's like.
Speaker B:It's like the time when they're all sitting in the meeting is like, we're moving to gas.
Speaker B:Oh, hell, no, we're not.
Speaker B:We're gonna stick to coal.
Speaker B:I was like, but your brother just died in the coal mine.
Speaker B:You know what?
Speaker B:He died a hard worker.
Speaker C:Keep mine and coal in his honor.
Speaker B:That's right.
Speaker B:I really like coal.
Speaker B:We're not gonna move to this gas.
Speaker B:Yeah, you and your gas, those coal coals.
Speaker B:We're sticking with coal.
Speaker C:It's reliable.
Speaker B:It's the same thing.
Speaker B:What's going on right now?
Speaker B:Fuck electric.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:I don't want.
Speaker B:What?
Speaker B:You're gonna shut down my car?
Speaker B:Shut down my car because I don't pay for it.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:With gas.
Speaker B:I can be like fucking Mad Max.
Speaker B:You can't have electric cars and Mad Max, can you?
Speaker B:You know, it's just, it's so ridiculous with the change.
Speaker B:You know, people hate change so much.
Speaker B:And because it's.
Speaker B:We work so hard.
Speaker B:We work so hard every single day.
Speaker B:We, we work at a coffee shop, we work at a bank, we work at films, we work in music, we work at anything that we do.
Speaker B:We work at the grocery store.
Speaker B:And all we want to do when we buy a movie ticket, and this is for me, working at a movie theater sweeping up popcorn is when you buy a movie ticket and spend $16 or $30, you just want to relax and enjoy a fun good time.
Speaker B:And so when you're challenged at the movie theater, you're like, fuck you.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:Gilliam's like, woo.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:And then that's the thing.
Speaker B:I just wasted my money.
Speaker B:And it's.
Speaker B:And that's.
Speaker B:I can't believe, you know, everybody hated Nightmare Before Christmas.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:You know, everybody was just like, yeah, fuck that movie.
Speaker B:That movie sucks.
Speaker B:And like didn't come popular until years later.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker C:And well, I think it also like, like you said when it comes to formulas, the Tarantino is very famous recently for talking about how he thinks like the 50s and the 80s were kind of shit decades for film because everything fell into the basic formula of how do you make a hit movie.
Speaker C:And this steps so far outside of what else was coming out at the.
Speaker A:Time in the 80s specifically.
Speaker C:I think it just made people uncomfortable by how out of the box it was compared to everything else that would have been in theaters at the time.
Speaker A:It was like the era of cocaine fueled buddy cop comedies.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker A:That.
Speaker A:And then like movies that went off like Harold Ramis movies that went off.
Speaker C:The rails or like low budget sci fi movies like.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:And this, this, it's a thing that every single frame of this movie is a painting in and of itself.
Speaker C:And when you're just used to B grade sci fi or whatever else and you see something like this, you don't know what to do with it.
Speaker B:We need to understand venues and be a little bit more respectful to them.
Speaker B:I realize that as a musician and I think that like we should make artsy films and put them in, in independent movie theaters like the Bell Court.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:You know, like I said, if you do.
Speaker B:If you're going into film to make a lot of money, then I'm not.
Speaker B:I don't care to watch it.
Speaker B:And, you know, there's like.
Speaker B:I don't consider Transformers, Michael Bay's Transformers film.
Speaker B:It's not art.
Speaker B:I mean, that was my first exposure to saying, this is a roller coaster.
Speaker B:This is entertainment.
Speaker B:And that's okay if you want to go have fun or if you want to go see Fast and Furious and try to convince me that those movies are artistic.
Speaker C:Drew Davis.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:And I know a lot of people who try.
Speaker B:I led to a lot of filmmakers who try to convince me, although those are brilliant, artistic films, I was just like, cool, man.
Speaker B:And.
Speaker B:And so I think that that's the.
Speaker B:That's the thing is that, like.
Speaker B:And I was so funny because I was thinking about, you know, that my girlfriend showed me that 70 show, and I've never seen it before.
Speaker B:And it's fun.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:Yeah, it's fun.
Speaker B:And there's.
Speaker B:There's certain humors to it, and I think that we don't have to force people to.
Speaker B:To.
Speaker B:To, like, certain things.
Speaker B:Like, I remember growing up in.
Speaker B:In high school, and I remember, like, there was these really dude jokes.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:You know, like, you know, like, this is such a dude joke.
Speaker B:And they would get mad at you.
Speaker B:It was like, why don't you find that fucking funny, dude?
Speaker B:Like, why don't you find that?
Speaker B:I was like, I just didn't get the joke, bro.
Speaker B:It's just like.
Speaker B:And it's only because, like, I.
Speaker B:I tend to more.
Speaker B:I'm not that big of a dude, dude.
Speaker B:You know, Like, I.
Speaker B:I grew up with a very.
Speaker B:I grew up with my mom and loving female things.
Speaker B:I loved a lot of, you know, all my heroes.
Speaker B:Bjork, you know, Joan Jett, Blondie, you know, all of them.
Speaker B:So many incredible women.
Speaker B:You know, Miyazaki's female characters.
Speaker B:I'm so gravitated towards feminine things.
Speaker B:So it's always like, it's interesting when I was sat around with a bunch of dudes and was like, what about this, bro?
Speaker C:Yeah, dicks.
Speaker B:You know what?
Speaker B:I'm not pushing my.
Speaker B:My favorite things on to you.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:I don't go and tell you, it's like, what's wrong with you?
Speaker B:You don't like anime?
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:You know, it's just like, an anime is not cool in our generation.
Speaker B:It was like, yeah, cartoons.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker A:You were.
Speaker C:You were the nerd if you were watching Pokemon.
Speaker A:Like, yeah, my favorite rando That I discovered Terry Gilliam.
Speaker A:So the girl that says, I won't look at your willy.
Speaker A:That thing?
Speaker A:Yeah, that was Terry Gilliam's daughter.
Speaker A:She was three years old.
Speaker A:Her name was Holly.
Speaker A:And Holly.
Speaker A:So she.
Speaker A:They.
Speaker A:She hated me on camera.
Speaker A:He was, like, so shocked, like, he's a filmmaker and, like, she did not want to do any of it.
Speaker A:And so she got so mad because she.
Speaker A:They couldn't get her to do it.
Speaker A:So she goes to a back room on set, cuts her hair off with scissors so that they won't put her back on camera.
Speaker A:Gilliam puts her back on anyway, and he had.
Speaker C:He.
Speaker A:So the only way they got her to say the line was he asked the entire crew to leave and it was just him behind the camera and her.
Speaker A:And so that was the only way he captured it.
Speaker A:But she literally cut her own hair so she could.
Speaker A:They wouldn't put her back on camera.
Speaker A:She hated it.
Speaker C:I love it.
Speaker B:Hilarious.
Speaker A:I just can't imagine being Terry Gilliam's.
Speaker C:Child any other circumstance where, like, you're an accountant and you bring your kid to work and you're just like, do accountant stuff.
Speaker C:Like, no, just add, I don't wanna.
Speaker A:Return on investment now.
Speaker B:Oh, man.
Speaker B:Terry Gilliam is such a weirdo.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:You know, I was looking at his filmography.
Speaker B:What was it?
Speaker B:I love so many of his films.
Speaker B:There's only one film I absolutely despise and hate.
Speaker B:It's Tide Land.
Speaker A:I haven't seen that one either.
Speaker B:It's the only one that I think that is disrespectful to life.
Speaker B:And I think it's.
Speaker B:It's too morbid.
Speaker B:And I think that he crosses the line.
Speaker B:And I think that these are the moments.
Speaker B:I think that's.
Speaker B:This shows.
Speaker B:What I understand from Loss and La Mancha with Terry Gilliam is that he doesn't know reality.
Speaker B:And he's so stuck in his.
Speaker B:In his own creative, monstrous, incredible world that sometimes I think he.
Speaker B:He goes a little too far.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:And I think sometimes he needs some.
Speaker B:Some people to limit him.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:And I think it's okay.
Speaker B:I think I work with a lot of directors as a dp, and sometimes what I've learned from directors, independent directors, most of the time is they lose themselves with that much power.
Speaker B:I remember when we worked together, I had to stay close to my vision with directing.
Speaker B:And I said, I can't lose what's important.
Speaker B:And I had to stay focused.
Speaker B:And there were moments Gethin wanted to challenge me.
Speaker B:I was so always happy when he.
Speaker B:When he asked Me a question.
Speaker B:I knew exactly what to say.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:I was just like, this is how it is.
Speaker B:And right there, the only thing about being a director for me was I guess the crew always asked me was like, are you mad at me?
Speaker B:Because like my face was like this the whole entire time.
Speaker A:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker B:And it was like very serious.
Speaker C:You're just like, no, I'm just mad at this one guy.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:No, and the thing, the thing is, is that when you're a director, it's a lot of responses.
Speaker B:It is so insane.
Speaker B:You get a, you get a bunch of money and you're in charge.
Speaker B:You're a king.
Speaker B:And I think he's, I think Terry Gilliam gets lost in his kingdom.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:And I think he thinks that he can just.
Speaker B:And I've, I've seen directors lose it.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:They, oh, I got, I want this and this and this.
Speaker B:Why can't you give it to me?
Speaker B:This is my vision.
Speaker B:This is my story.
Speaker B:Me, me, me, I, I and say, hey, is this about you or, or is it about the movie?
Speaker B:Yeah, don't.
Speaker B:I mean, because if that's what it is, then let's put the cameras on you.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:Because if this is what you really want.
Speaker A:Well, if I absorbed anything from the commentary, like where a lot of directors are trying to insert a message or, or posture with a certain message with, whether it be political or you know, socio economic, whatever the messaging is, the things that Gilliam believes, he believes.
Speaker A:The, the words that came to mind after I watched it with the commentary was like, Gilliam is a true believer.
Speaker A:Believer in terms of that like the things that he's espousing in this movie are things.
Speaker A:These are, and I wrote this down in my notes, they stem from his core belief system.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker A:He's not posturing for Hollywood.
Speaker A:He's not trying to like, you know, like what Adam said, Simon said on our interview when he talked about like all the people that would like talk about who to vote for or what your family values are.
Speaker A:These are people that were also in brothels with sex trafficked people.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker A:You know, like there's this, this Hollywood thing and you kind of touched on earlier Hollywood.
Speaker A:Hollywood's a demented place.
Speaker A:But Gilliam, I don't know him personally, I don't know if he's a demented person or not, but he believes the, in this movie stems from a core belief.
Speaker A:So I don't even know if it's necessarily a core creative thing with him as much as it, there's an inherent nihilism.
Speaker A:That he has.
Speaker A:That he projects onto his work.
Speaker B:Yeah, that's.
Speaker B:And what.
Speaker B:Every minute that you said all that, I was just looking up and I was like, man, you're so cool.
Speaker B:Because it's like, it's punk rock to me, you know, I'm such a punk rocker.
Speaker B:And I just like, I.
Speaker B:I love.
Speaker B:I love.
Speaker B:I love how punk rock that is.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:And I just think that's super cool.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:I'm.
Speaker B:I'm constantly speechless in this.
Speaker B:In this interview compared to the other one.
Speaker B:I'm just like.
Speaker B:I don't know what to say.
Speaker B:Once again, Terry Gilliam, you're this beautiful, sexy person.
Speaker A:That's amazing.
Speaker C:I think for me, I've always had the view, whether I've been directing something or working on a film for someone else.
Speaker C:I'm just like, y'all, we're basically just getting paid to make believe.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker C:And it's like, yeah, we can make cool shit that might change someone's mind or view one day, but it's like, ultimately, we're making believe.
Speaker C:Like, we get paid to do what kids just want to do all the time.
Speaker C:Like, come on, let's.
Speaker C:Yes.
Speaker C:Have your vision, stay true to yourself, but also just understand we're making something that doesn't exist.
Speaker C:Like, have fun with it.
Speaker C:Don't.
Speaker C:Don't yell at people, because you want to have the power when you're making something up.
Speaker C:Like, calm down, people.
Speaker C:Are we ready to fill the.
Speaker C:The suits with.
Speaker A:Are we ready to fill the void?
Speaker A:The nihilism?
Speaker C:Are we ready to fall into the void of a casket?
Speaker A:Are you ready to get Orwellian?
Speaker C:Are we ready to get plastic surgery?
Speaker C:Let's go.
Speaker A:Actually, let's get stamped.
Speaker A:Yes, let's get stamped.
Speaker A:Let's clean our desk.
Speaker A:Because a clean desk is an efficient desk.
Speaker C:True.
Speaker A:Let's go.
Speaker A:Let's war.
Speaker A:Our categories are.
Speaker A:So I want to say the broader quote first, because you told me you're right, I should cut it down.
Speaker A:But my favorite quote from this movie was like.
Speaker A:And this happened several times.
Speaker A:They're literally in the middle.
Speaker A:Like, they.
Speaker A:They don't catch Sam and they don't catch Jill, and they're mad.
Speaker A:But in the middle of it, they remind him, like, remember, a clean desk is an efficient desk.
Speaker A:And it's like, even in the middle of chaos, they're like, we have to remember the rules.
Speaker C:Rules.
Speaker A:But clean desk is, yes, affirmative.
Speaker A:And then negative is Central Services.
Speaker C:There we go.
Speaker A:So we gotta call Central Services.
Speaker A:Seriously.
Speaker A:Those guys were like, Mario and Luigi, amazing.
Speaker A:All right, here we Go top bill, cast.
Speaker A:And I did want to say this was a rando I had, but.
Speaker A:And I didn't have time for it.
Speaker A:But Jonathan Price, Kim Greased, and Robert De Niro.
Speaker A:De Niro was really nervous about doing this movie because up until then, this was Robert De niro from Godfather 2.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker A:He'd never done what he called Gilliam calls it a bit part but a supporting part.
Speaker A:He had carried every movie.
Speaker A:He'd been in taxi driver, Godfather 2, and here.
Speaker A:I mean, yeah, he's prevalent, but he's not, like, in it a lot.
Speaker C:It's still such a random.
Speaker C:I.
Speaker C:I always forget he's in it.
Speaker C:And then he pops.
Speaker C:I'm like, oh, yeah.
Speaker A:So what do we think about this top bill, cast?
Speaker C:I mean, I.
Speaker C:I think I can.
Speaker C:I can guess where all of this is gonna go for all of us.
Speaker C:I think that this.
Speaker C:Everyone just did such a great job.
Speaker C:I said, I've said this with the last film.
Speaker C:I think every single actor brought a hundred percent or more to whatever they were doing in this film.
Speaker C:Everyone took the absurdity and treated it with the proper gravitas and as seriously as they could while still letting the humor and the absurdity speak through it.
Speaker C:So it's a clean desk for me.
Speaker A:Love it.
Speaker B:Clean desk.
Speaker B:But I was so surprised.
Speaker B:I was like, is that Robert Denier?
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:And I was just like, it's been a while since I've seen the movie.
Speaker B:I was like, oh, my goodness, Robert, dinner.
Speaker B:And he does such a good job.
Speaker B:So good.
Speaker A:He's great.
Speaker B:And you know what's really funny is that the lead actor.
Speaker B:I can't stand him.
Speaker A:Jonathan Bryce.
Speaker B:Oh, Jonathan.
Speaker B:He drives me nuts.
Speaker B:Especially in Game of Thrones.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:I was just like, can you.
Speaker B:I'd be really happy if we didn't have him cast.
Speaker B:He does a great job in Game of Thrones.
Speaker C:Oh, he does.
Speaker B:He does a great job.
Speaker B:Oh, I just can't wait to see him die.
Speaker B:I've never, never liked his acting, and I don't like his face.
Speaker B:And it is a personal thing, and it's.
Speaker B:It's.
Speaker B:It's.
Speaker B:It's terrible because he's talented and I'm very talented.
Speaker B:He's very talented.
Speaker B:I just.
Speaker B:I get so annoyed.
Speaker B:And, like, I loved him in this movie.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:I loved him in this movie, and he's.
Speaker B:He's very brilliant.
Speaker B:I just.
Speaker B:I don't.
Speaker B:I don't know.
Speaker B:It sounds like a personal problem.
Speaker B:It is.
Speaker B:It is a lame, lame personal problem.
Speaker A:But it's not enough to give you A central services.
Speaker B:You're going, it's a.
Speaker B:It's a clean desk.
Speaker B:Everybody was brilliant.
Speaker B:I also love the plastic surgeon guy from Harry Potter.
Speaker B:What's his name?
Speaker C:Oh, Jim Broadbent.
Speaker B:Oh, yeah.
Speaker C:So good.
Speaker C:He pops up is just.
Speaker C:It's always fun for me.
Speaker C:Whenever I see any British influenced film, I'm like, he's gonna be there somewhere.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker C:Where's he gonna be?
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:I went clean desk too.
Speaker A:And I noticed this with a lot of the films.
Speaker A:Even though I don't love the film Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas because it's actually my favorite novel of all time.
Speaker B:Love Ralph Steadman.
Speaker A:Yeah, yep.
Speaker B:Illustrator.
Speaker A:Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
Speaker A:But there's something weird with Gilliam.
Speaker A:Like he manages to get.
Speaker A:All of his films have a certain level of hyperbole.
Speaker A:Lynch has this too.
Speaker A:Like the acting, the way it's written.
Speaker A:Like there's.
Speaker A:There's hyperbole kind of just built in.
Speaker A:I don't know how, but all of the actors in, I would say 12 Monkeys fear and loathing this film.
Speaker A:Like they, they buy in.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker A:And they're also bought in.
Speaker A:Like I think about the mom with the plastic surgery and the waiter, even the side characters.
Speaker A:And we'll get into supporting cast, but everyone is like in.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker A:And there's not a.
Speaker A:There's nothing lacks here.
Speaker A:And I don't know how he does it because it's actually pretty.
Speaker A:Pretty amazing, as you'll see.
Speaker A:Even when we just talked about before the devil knows your dad.
Speaker A:Like, yeah, there's a lot of great performance, but you know, it's like there's an occasional side character.
Speaker A:Supporting actual.
Speaker A:That was okay here.
Speaker A:Everyone is just in.
Speaker C:Yeah, everyone buys the vision.
Speaker A:100% total clean desk for me.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker A:Supporting cast, Katherine Hellman is Dr.
Speaker A:Ida Lowry.
Speaker A:Ian Holm is Mr.
Speaker A:Kurtzman.
Speaker A:Bob Hoskins as Spore, and Michael Palin as Jack Lint.
Speaker A:There's a lot of them here, but There's Jim Broadbent, Dr.
Speaker A:Jaffe.
Speaker A:I'm trying to see if there's anyone else.
Speaker A:We'll stop there.
Speaker A:What do you think?
Speaker C:As.
Speaker C:As we just said with.
Speaker C:With the top build cast, like, again, everyone is 100% in there.
Speaker C:Not a single person phoned in any performance.
Speaker C:And I.
Speaker C:I don't even know how many takes things took or how like meticulous Terry Gilliam is with stuff like that.
Speaker C:But it's like, I feel like in this movie, especially if he tells someone to do it, they just get it and they just do it exactly the way that he's asked for it.
Speaker C:Just not a single person stands out.
Speaker C:Everyone buys the absurdity and sells it so hard.
Speaker C:So it's a clean desk for me.
Speaker B:You know, I, I mean, I was gonna say also, how can you, how can you fuck it up with, with camp acting too?
Speaker B:Yeah, no, it's like, it's so much fun.
Speaker B:I make jokes about Wes Anderson these days.
Speaker B:I love Wes Anderson's earlier work, but Wes Anderson these days I would, I'd.
Speaker B:If I.
Speaker B:If I was an actor.
Speaker B:And my agent called me and said, you're gonna be the next Wes Anderson film.
Speaker B:I was like, yeah, I was just like, you know, because like.
Speaker B:And what I mean by that is just like, it's so monotone and they're so robots.
Speaker B:Like I get, I get more emotion from chat gbt responding to me than a Wes Anderson being like, just like my mother just died.
Speaker B:Lights up the cigarette.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:Wanna fuck?
Speaker C:Or if you're Edward, doesn't light the cigarette and just puts it in his mouth.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:And it's just like.
Speaker B:How was the sex?
Speaker B:Good?
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:Just like, I'm sorry I couldn't pleasure you because my dad doesn't talk to me.
Speaker B:Rich people problems, you know, it's just like.
Speaker B:It's gotten to a point of like being such like high rich people problems that it's just like.
Speaker C:It's almost a parody of itself now.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:And it's, it's just, it's form, it's a formula.
Speaker B:And then like with camp, I mean we.
Speaker B:I grew up in the 90s.
Speaker B:I love camp.
Speaker B:The other person who's my other hero is John Waters.
Speaker B:And when you get to have camp acting, it's just exciting.
Speaker B:It's so fun.
Speaker B:It's, it's filled.
Speaker B:I don't want it all the time.
Speaker B:I'm glad, but I'm glad we have it right.
Speaker B:And I'm glad that we get to see because that's when all little tiny minor characters, like we said, just say number two, say number three.
Speaker B:You know, that's.
Speaker B:It's just, it's so necessary.
Speaker B:It goes back to the other conversation.
Speaker B:I said, give people character and purpose.
Speaker B:Make your other characters excited to be in your movie.
Speaker A:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker A:And this is something the Cohen's do really well too.
Speaker A:I talk about this all the time, but they spend more time making side characters rememberable or memorable.
Speaker A:And Gilliam does that here too.
Speaker A:And I do think too the camp acting is interesting because I think it has a purpose.
Speaker A:Not only just in acting but in the film to live in this System.
Speaker A:You have to portray a certain level of detachment from yourself and from your soul because you're, you know, dreaming is, is, is looked down upon.
Speaker A:It's out of the norm.
Speaker A:So these people are just acting in a way where a detached individual would.
Speaker A:And it's pretty amazing that even down to the, to the lowest level, you know, supporting actor here we're seeing a pretty consistent hyperbolic detachment camp that buys into the messaging of the film.
Speaker A:So this is a big, a big clean desk for me as well.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:I love what you said, that dreaming is frowned upon.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:Especially for this movie.
Speaker B:It's, that's beautifully said.
Speaker C:I love that transition where he's just like, I don't have hopes and especially dreams.
Speaker C:Then it cuts right into his dream sequence.
Speaker A:On top of all the broken systems too.
Speaker A:Like the toaster.
Speaker A:My.
Speaker A:Probably the, the funniest thing in this movie is that damn toaster that gets the toast wet.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker A:But that's the funny thing though because that's really what it would be like.
Speaker A:Like we're going to be forced to buy into the system.
Speaker A:But the system is broken and it's just like, but we're supposed to pretend like it's not.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker A:And all the machines don't work and this advanced technology breaks all the time and it's just like.
Speaker A:But we got to buy in.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker A:And we got to be detached.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker A:So very powerful message riding Terry Gilliam.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:Fucking insane.
Speaker C:It's just, I mean I can't, we've said it all at this point.
Speaker C:Like it's just, it's so well done.
Speaker C:He just leans into the absurdism 110% IT, IT, and it makes you buy this make believe world that also feels weirdly familiar.
Speaker C:And it's like I, I, I just, I don't know.
Speaker C:I, I, Yeah.
Speaker C:I can't say anything else.
Speaker C:It's a clean desk for me.
Speaker C:It's fan tastic.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:You and me in this, in this episode were just like.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:You know, so hot.
Speaker A:I need to say something really negative at some point just to kind of balance it out here.
Speaker A:The emerald couch.
Speaker C:Her tits could have been better.
Speaker C:Okay.
Speaker B:The, the what, what it is is once again, it's rulebook.
Speaker B:It's rule breaking.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:And for you to, you know your downfall that he invented a different kind of story structure.
Speaker B:And in, in downfall and I, I definitely, I think I steal it or I was influenced a lot but by it.
Speaker B:And I love the downfall of how everything goes so subconsciously chaotic in its own kind of way.
Speaker B:And I Think, you know, I think David lynch follows a similar kind of one that's, you know, I think David.
Speaker B:Yes.
Speaker B:David lynch does the same formula too.
Speaker B:You know, like when you watch Mulholland Drive towards their downfalls, it's just crazy.
Speaker B:You know, the homeless person, the small, little mini older people chasing you and having sex with this ghost or not in Mulholland Drive, it's just insane.
Speaker B:So I think that's what I'm really attracted to is inventing different formula structures.
Speaker B:And I praise them for that because, you know, we learn the rules to break the rules.
Speaker B:And it's such the cleanest desk that I could find.
Speaker A:The cleanest of desks.
Speaker C:Let's just take a moment and admire my favorite line from this whole movie where she's just like, want to try some necrophilia?
Speaker C:So good.
Speaker C:Oh, my God.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:And that's one of the reasons I do give this a clean desk is there's an intertwining of humor and.
Speaker A:But real life, like messaging and almost this kind of like, crystal ball look into what life could look like if we continue down the technological road that we are on.
Speaker A:And.
Speaker A:But I.
Speaker A:But it also somehow never takes itself that seriously.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker A:Which is interesting because Gilliam, when I hear him talk, he sounds like a serious guy.
Speaker A:Like, he really believes it.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:And he's really into it.
Speaker A:But the way this is portrayed, it's almost a humorous but real look.
Speaker A:And I think the balance is great.
Speaker A:Like, it never.
Speaker A:It never veers so far on one side that I'm like, all right, whatever.
Speaker A:You know, there.
Speaker A:There are some transitional periods in the film, and I'll get more into the next category.
Speaker A:I do give it a clean desk.
Speaker A:There are moments where it transitions to the dreams, though, with the samurai and stuff, where I am, like, having to readjust and recalibrate because again, I kind of went into this cold turkey.
Speaker A:I kind of read the summary, but didn't do any research or anything.
Speaker A:And I was kind of like, when he starts to fly and he's got his wings and all the stuff, I'm like, okay, wait a second.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker A:But.
Speaker A:But once I readjusted, I was good, but there definitely was some calibration along the way.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker A:But I do think it was meant to be disorienting, so I.
Speaker A:I do respect it.
Speaker A:But at first I was kind of like, okay, what's that?
Speaker A:Okay, I get it now.
Speaker A:I see what we're doing.
Speaker A:This is a Gilliam film.
Speaker A:I see what we're doing.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker A:So good stuff.
Speaker A:It is three Actually, it's what it is.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Three to zero.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker A:What's in front of us?
Speaker A:Cinematography, production, directing, design.
Speaker A:We just did.
Speaker A:Oh, wait, we did write.
Speaker A:God, sorry.
Speaker C:He did write Andre.
Speaker A:We did.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:It's because he did both.
Speaker A:All right.
Speaker A:Directing.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:I mean, again, I think everything we just said in the.
Speaker C:For writing can be attributed to directing.
Speaker C:Like, he had such a clear vision and.
Speaker C:And he made sure everyone followed it to the letter and it's.
Speaker C:It's wonderful.
Speaker C:So, yeah.
Speaker C:Clean desk.
Speaker A:Love that.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:Total.
Speaker A:Total genius domination.
Speaker B:Really great.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:Total.
Speaker B:I would never want to work with him.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:I'd never want to be on that film set.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker C:I would.
Speaker C:I would want to be a fly on the wall.
Speaker C:Like so far away, just looking in and not nothing.
Speaker B:I would love to be the executive producer and be like, pop my head and say, like, this is great.
Speaker B:How much more money do you need?
Speaker A:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker A:I'm trying.
Speaker A:I'm trying to imagine I give this a clean desk for an external reason.
Speaker A:External.
Speaker A:The film was like, I'm just trying to imagine making this movie in the middle of the 80s where, like Caddyshack, you know, which I like.
Speaker A:I like comedies, I like Caddyshack, I love Fletch.
Speaker A:Those are some of my favorite comedies.
Speaker A:But cocaine fueled comedies and Beverly Hills Cop and Buddy Cop movies are becoming prevalent and, and, and Hollywood is literally running on cocaine during this era.
Speaker A:And people are literally like, just giving up halfway through the script and going, you know what?
Speaker A:Let's snort some coke and make some up.
Speaker A:That's kind of like how movies were made during this time.
Speaker A:But here there's such a hyper focus.
Speaker A:It's a brave message.
Speaker A:You know, it's a.
Speaker A:You know, we're coming out of a.
Speaker A:I can't remember, like, there's, you know, we got a recession looming in the 80s here, and there's a lot of.
Speaker A:There's a lot of really weird, interesting cultural things happening for this film to come out.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:So I think it's cool.
Speaker A:It's brave.
Speaker A:I think it's hilarious.
Speaker A:People were walking out of it because.
Speaker C:Like I said earlier, it just makes sense because.
Speaker C:Because it's.
Speaker C:It's so far outside of everything else that was happening at the time.
Speaker A:And I just love his vision.
Speaker A:I love the closeness, even though it's uncomfortable.
Speaker A:And I love that he did it in 12 Monkeys as well.
Speaker A:But just like the hyper focus on.
Speaker A:Discomfortable.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker A:You know, things.
Speaker A:So I think he's.
Speaker A:I think he's a mastermind at that.
Speaker A:And I also Give it a clean desk here.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker A:So now we're at 4 to 0.
Speaker A:Sorry, I skipped a category.
Speaker A:What's in front of us?
Speaker A:I know.
Speaker A:Yeah, I know.
Speaker A:I'm losing my edge.
Speaker A:Cinematography, production design, sound, costumes, editing, hand motions.
Speaker C:As.
Speaker C:As we started this whole thing.
Speaker C:Talking about the practicality of everything with.
Speaker C:Especially with how absurd it all is.
Speaker C:Like, where else are you going to watch a movie where suddenly buildings are just shooting up out of the ground or there's so much like ducts and tubes everywhere.
Speaker C:My absolute favorite shot of the entire movie is right near the beginning.
Speaker C:And it's when all of those people are walking through the main office and it's like they're crossing the camera, they're crossing in front of each other.
Speaker C:There's a line of 10 people that all split off in different directions.
Speaker C:The amount of rehearsal and choreography that had to go into this 110 second shot must have been absolutely insane.
Speaker C:So it's the cleanest of desks.
Speaker A:Love it.
Speaker B:Cleanest of desks.
Speaker B:I mean I love every single moment of it.
Speaker B:It's my favorite style, type of style of filmmaking.
Speaker B:I'll take this.
Speaker B:What people would think is homemade and unprofessional and low budget looking, which I think is higher budget.
Speaker B:And I love the way that you know, when he's outside there's these miniature sets that look like Gotham.
Speaker B:And I just.
Speaker B:It brings the imagination of my innocence again.
Speaker B:And I.
Speaker B:And I love that you tapped into it.
Speaker B:It feels like a home cooked meal.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:That will bring tears to my eyes rather than something that was manufactured in to what I think is leading to AI.
Speaker C:Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker A:I give this a clean desk.
Speaker A:I love how Gilliam pulls us in with this stuff.
Speaker A:I think I.
Speaker A:One thing I love too is that with the clothing and stuff, it's really interesting that it's a futuristic society.
Speaker A:But they're wearing.
Speaker A:The men are still wearing 50 suits.
Speaker A:Like they look like administrators.
Speaker A:It's.
Speaker A:I think it's supposed to make us feel discombobulated.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker A:It's like we're in a futuristic world but we're wearing old suits from the 40s.
Speaker C:It's like where everyone's phone has its own switchboard.
Speaker A:Yes.
Speaker C:It's.
Speaker C:I think that's what makes it such a timeless film.
Speaker A:Yes.
Speaker C:Is.
Speaker C:Is the fact that you can't quite figure out when it's set.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Something bad happened.
Speaker A:Now we're here and we're all really confused.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:And maybe the production design is making a commentary that the.
Speaker B:The movie set starts and Ends with the.
Speaker B:With the.
Speaker B:With the ending, you know, because it's.
Speaker B:It's the loop right.
Speaker B:When you're revisiting your life, maybe it's all conjointed of many different things.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:That's why nothing makes sense.
Speaker B:That's why nothing is consistent.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:With all the different costumes that are happening right then and there.
Speaker B:That just feels like a dream.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:You know, you have to imagine back.
Speaker A:On what you said about your life flashing before your eyes, like.
Speaker A:And does your life flash before your eyes?
Speaker A:Or is it tidbits of your real life with the life you wanted, with the life you dreamt, with the life you fantasized about?
Speaker A:Probably all of that.
Speaker B:Yes.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Like, if.
Speaker B:So cool.
Speaker A:You drove a Honda, but you.
Speaker A:Your life flash before your eyes and you have the Lamborghini or whatever.
Speaker A:That's just a stupid example, man.
Speaker B:No, that's so cool.
Speaker B:I love that.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:That's a movie idea right there.
Speaker B:Oh, totally.
Speaker B:Yes.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Five to zero.
Speaker A:Now we're getting to my homemade categories here.
Speaker A:Here we go.
Speaker A:Dystopia track.
Speaker A:We're fresh off the Super Bowl.
Speaker A:Everyone's talking about Kendrick Lamar's dissing of Drake.
Speaker A:I don't give a shit about any of it because it's what.
Speaker A:But dystopia track how?
Speaker A:As a dystopian film, you know, and to me, it's like Mad Max is.
Speaker A:Is the best.
Speaker A:Like, anarcho.
Speaker A:Like the anarchical version of dystopia.
Speaker A:But this is organized like governmental, authoritarian.
Speaker A:So how do we.
Speaker A:How do we rate this?
Speaker A:How do we view this as a dystopia film?
Speaker C:For me, this is the best dystopia films could ever be.
Speaker C:It's.
Speaker C:It's.
Speaker C:It's been so overdone that now it's just the subject of teen movies.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker C:It's kind of frustrating to see that because you could do so much incredible stuff with creating these kinds of worlds, but I feel like it's just been so dumbed down over the last, what, 40 years since this came out.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker C:That I just frustrates me now that we peaked with this 40 years ago.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker C:So it's a clean desk for me.
Speaker C:It is incredible, and I don't think it will ever be matched.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:The only thing that tops the dystopia for me is Dark City.
Speaker A:Oh, yes.
Speaker A:Same director is the Crow.
Speaker B:Oh, is it?
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:That movie is so brilliant with the architecture.
Speaker B:You know, it's like before Christopher Nolan was Christopher Nolan.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:You know, it's like Terry Gilliam meets Christopher Nolan in that movie.
Speaker B:And that movie is the reason why I say is I love the silliness of Terry Gilliam because it's a Terry Gilliam movie.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Dark City is not silly.
Speaker B:And so I'm able to be a little bit more targeted in.
Speaker B:And instead of the many different storylines that I love, I like being challenged and I like the freedom of being challenged with the Terror Gillian film.
Speaker B:But if I want to be locked in and say dystopian Dark City is number one for me, I.
Speaker B:And I would.
Speaker B:That's what I would love to see.
Speaker A:I love that.
Speaker A:It's really good.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:Alex Proyas is awesome.
Speaker B:What is it?
Speaker B:What is that one with.
Speaker B:Geez.
Speaker B:The one with.
Speaker B:Who's Hellboy again?
Speaker C:Ron Perlman.
Speaker B:Who's the one with Ron Perlman in the dystopian city?
Speaker B:It's.
Speaker A:Oh, City of Lost Children.
Speaker A:Is that it?
Speaker A:I don't know.
Speaker A:I don't know which one you're talking about.
Speaker B:Oh, man.
Speaker B:It's.
Speaker B:Because it's.
Speaker B:It's really incredible too.
Speaker B:Ron Perlman.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Dystopia is a.
Speaker A:Is a wide category.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker A:And it's become wider over time.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:It's just like I said, it's just kind of frustrating to watch it get more and more simplified and.
Speaker C:And I don't feel like there's any creativity in it.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:City of Lost Children.
Speaker C:Okay.
Speaker B:City of Lost Children is really incredible.
Speaker B:I wonder if City of Lost Children inspired.
Speaker B:Inspired Children of Men.
Speaker A:Yeah, it looks like it.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:I haven't seen it, but I'm just looking and reading about it now.
Speaker B:Yeah, It's Children of Children of Men, also dystopian.
Speaker A:I think it would fall into that.
Speaker C:Would dystopian post apocalyptic situation.
Speaker A:Those two get merged together all the time.
Speaker B:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker B:Then I would.
Speaker B:I mean, like, because I think Children of Men is also one of the most godly inspiring we.
Speaker B:The reason why we have video games the way they are today is because of children.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:And it's just a brilliant top, top number one film.
Speaker B:I mean, I wouldn't say it peaked with Terry Gilliam, but I think that Terry Gilliam is a.
Speaker B:Is a great, great addition to it.
Speaker B:Like, he's.
Speaker B:He's like one of the great bands.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:That of.
Speaker B:Of this genre.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:You know, absolutely.
Speaker B:And then.
Speaker B:But I.
Speaker B:I do hear what you say about this.
Speaker B:This new generation of like dystopian teenagers.
Speaker C:Like, because, like, even when I watched Fahrenheit 451, when HBO put it out, it was.
Speaker C:It was.
Speaker C:Well Made movie.
Speaker C:But it just.
Speaker C:It still felt so sanitized as far as, like, this dystopian future that they were trying to portray.
Speaker C:Even equilibrium, which unfortunately hasn't held up for me.
Speaker C:I rewatched it recently and it's nowhere near as good as it was when I first watched it.
Speaker C:Even then, the type of dystopian world that they've created is so sanitized compared to how Terry Gilliam handled it in.
Speaker C:In Brazil.
Speaker B:Yeah, you know, Terry Gilliam did another great dystopian film.
Speaker B:I don't know if you saw it, but it is basically very similar to.
Speaker B:Without a Darker Reflection.
Speaker C:And it's almost like you love Terry Gilliam or something.
Speaker C:The.
Speaker B:The zero theorem.
Speaker C:Oh, okay.
Speaker B:Yeah, it's.
Speaker B:It's so similar to this movie.
Speaker B:It's just an updated version of it.
Speaker C:Nice.
Speaker B:And it.
Speaker B:It does feel like when I watch this movie, I'm like, man, this feels like without dark reflection, without all the mirrors.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:And it's very similar in that way.
Speaker B:But also.
Speaker B:Is Planet of the Apes dystopian or is that apocalyptic?
Speaker C:You know, that's an interesting question because it technically takes place so many thousands of years after, like, current times that I don't know what it would be.
Speaker C:I don't know what it would be considered because it does have aspects with like, the destruction of New York and the atomic bombs going off.
Speaker C:Like, it does feel kind of more post apocalyptic than dystopian.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker C:Because I feel like with dystopian, you still have to have a society.
Speaker C:You still have to have some sort of governmental structure within the world.
Speaker C:So that's where.
Speaker C:Yes, I talk with my hand.
Speaker B:No, no, no.
Speaker B:I was about to be douche.
Speaker B:Like.
Speaker B:Well, one could say that the monkeys are actually societies of themselves too.
Speaker B:And who is one to say?
Speaker C:I mean, it's true.
Speaker C:It is true.
Speaker C:But like, there's a government system between the chimps, but it's also one that's died and been rebuilt versus the evolution, the natural evolution of what our society is going to become.
Speaker C:I think that's probably the biggest difference between post apocalyptic and.
Speaker C:And dystopian.
Speaker A:I definitely go clean desk here because I think.
Speaker A:I love how.
Speaker A:I just think it's funny because, like, when we were kids, it was like we thought a flying car or like, that was our idea of the future.
Speaker A:But this one, like, predicts a future of incompetence.
Speaker A:Yeah, that's your.
Speaker A:Your AI comments were very insightful because it's like, making us lazier that.
Speaker A:That commentary.
Speaker A:Like.
Speaker A:Like Gilliam saw that.
Speaker A:Like, he saw that it could also be our end.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:And.
Speaker A:And that it could go a negative direction, that it's not going to necessarily empower us, that it could take our power.
Speaker A:So I like that a lot.
Speaker A:So I definitely give it a one.
Speaker A:I think it's one of the best.
Speaker A:Like, I.
Speaker A:I think Mad Max personally is my favorite.
Speaker B:Love Mad Max.
Speaker B:I love that filmmaker.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Oh, George Miller.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Road Warrior 2.
Speaker B:Love Babe the Pig.
Speaker B:And I love Babe Pig in the City.
Speaker B:Oh, my God.
Speaker A:And Happy Feet.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:Happy Feet.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:Like, what an incredible filmmaker to make Babe.
Speaker B:Pig in the City, which is like the best sequel of all time.
Speaker B:Even better than Star Wars.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:And the Mad Max movies, which are just beyond.
Speaker B:Oh, incredibly brilliant and all of the most.
Speaker C:Fury Road is my fifth favorite movie ever made.
Speaker C:Like, it's just below Brazil.
Speaker A:Speaking of Brazil, last category here, six to zero.
Speaker A:We are cleaning house here.
Speaker C:Cleaning desks.
Speaker A:Cleaning desk.
Speaker A:Last.
Speaker A:Last category.
Speaker A:Brazil Nuts.
Speaker A:This category is about.
Speaker A:So here, here's how I, I approach movies like this because I do dabble in the pretentiousness.
Speaker A:I love Refn.
Speaker A:I love people that are like self.
Speaker A:They just like self aggrandizing filmmakers.
Speaker A:Like, I like that.
Speaker A:But you said something earlier too, that actually kind of affirmed why I made this category.
Speaker A:Like venues.
Speaker A:Like venues for certain types of films.
Speaker A:People walking out of this movie, is it too inaccessible to comprehend?
Speaker A:Because even I.
Speaker A:I had to fast forward a few times.
Speaker A:I had to rewatch scenes.
Speaker A:I had to watch it three times.
Speaker A:I watched it twice without the commentary, once with.
Speaker A:Just to make sure I got it for this podcast.
Speaker A:Like, what do you think?
Speaker A:Is it like just separating yourself from the love of it?
Speaker A:Is it.
Speaker A:Is there a level where it is a little too Brazil Nuts?
Speaker A:Too nuts.
Speaker A:I mean, for the average viewer.
Speaker C:For me, if I'm not going to go see a.
Speaker C:As we said earlier, a movie that was made strictly for entertainment.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker C:I don't want to get it 100% the first time I watch it.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker C:Because at that point, I think it's too simple.
Speaker C:I need a reason to revisit movies like this.
Speaker A:Same.
Speaker C:And so I think for this particular style of filmmaking, it lends itself to make you rewatch it because there is so much going on that especially the first time you watch it, you're so overwhelmed by all the absurdity and craziness that you see on the screen that you have to go back through to start picking out the details of why certain things turn certain ways during the story.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker C:So I don't know.
Speaker C:It is.
Speaker C:It is a very.
Speaker C:I mean, it's an art house film and art house, I think has to lend itself towards that kind of open ended.
Speaker C:Gives you a reason to rewatch and revisit.
Speaker C:So for me, it's a clean desk because I do think it shouldn't be totally accessible the first time you watch it.
Speaker C:I think it has to have reasons to go back to it.
Speaker B:For me, it's.
Speaker B:It is too much.
Speaker B:It is too much for.
Speaker B:For anyone.
Speaker B:Is it my favorite Terry Gilliam film?
Speaker B:No, my favorite Terry Gilliam film is probably going to be Dr.
Speaker B:Parnassus, which I think is brilliant.
Speaker B:And I think it's really intelligent about how he didn't give up on such a film.
Speaker B:Even.
Speaker B:Heath Ledger is one of my favorite actors in the world.
Speaker B:And for him to come up with a creative solution out of respect, I thought was great.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:And I, And I thought it was.
Speaker B:And I thought it was so funny how some people would just say, how dare him, like, choose other actors to play him.
Speaker B:I don't think that Heath Ledger would have been ever disrespected on that.
Speaker B:Heath Ledger, would he love the art so much.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:And I think that that was such a.
Speaker B:Especially as a filmmaker.
Speaker B:For us as filmmakers, we need to finish what we start.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:And, you know, it's.
Speaker B:It's so.
Speaker B:Especially for me, I haven't finished a lot of things and it breaks my heart.
Speaker B:It haunts me.
Speaker B:I have haunting nightmares about it.
Speaker B:And, you know, I love Baron Munchausen.
Speaker B:Baron Munchausen is such an incredible film too.
Speaker B:I.
Speaker B:I think it's so magical.
Speaker B:That's my second favorite.
Speaker B:And then, you know, I think I like Brazil more than Zero Theorem.
Speaker B:I hate Thailand.
Speaker B:I think that's one of the worst movies I've ever seen my whole life.
Speaker B:I absolutely think it's a terrible film.
Speaker B:I was very disappointed in the man who Killed Don Quixote.
Speaker C:Oh, right.
Speaker C:He did do that one.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:But I loved his documentary Lost in La Mancha.
Speaker B:More.
Speaker B:I love 12 Monkeys and.
Speaker B:But that's.
Speaker B:That's a different kind of category.
Speaker B:And Fear and Loathing.
Speaker B:I'm not the biggest fan of it either.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:And I.
Speaker A:It didn't nail the novel.
Speaker B:No.
Speaker B:And I just don't really care for Johnny Depp's performance in it.
Speaker B:And I think it's.
Speaker B:It.
Speaker B:It started a generation of guys who want to overact like that.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:You know.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:And somehow he overacted his overacting, the older he got.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:And so I think that this movie is.
Speaker B:Is.
Speaker B:Is too much.
Speaker B:But for us who are Terry Gilliam fans, it's great.
Speaker B:It's just enough.
Speaker B:Yeah, it really is just enough.
Speaker B:And we.
Speaker B:We love him for it, and we think it's great for it.
Speaker B:I'm not mad about anything about it, but if I was teaching a class and I understood that people were like, can we just watch something else?
Speaker B:I'm like, let's.
Speaker B:Let's watch some other movies.
Speaker B:I would suggest let's watch some other movies before we watch this one.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:You know, you got to be.
Speaker B:Let's watch some other movies and give a couple of years and then let's watch Brazil.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:You know, and I think, because then you'll.
Speaker B:You'll really appreciate it.
Speaker B:And especially everything we talked about, it's.
Speaker B:It's ahead of its time.
Speaker C:Yeah, very much so.
Speaker B:It's not a clean desk.
Speaker A:Essential services.
Speaker C:Okay.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:God.
Speaker A:I went back and forth and the reason I made this category was because of the people walking out of it and, like, knowing what time it was made in.
Speaker A:And you talked about venues.
Speaker A:I also went central services because I also love to be challenged.
Speaker A:I think Gilliam, and to your point, I think he's been more cohesive with complex messages in other films.
Speaker A:I do think there are moments where this film jumps, makes big jumps, and I, after three viewings, get it and dig it and love it.
Speaker A: oes of like a person, like in: Speaker A:Like, what?
Speaker A:And the.
Speaker A:Where's.
Speaker A:Where's Eddie Murphy?
Speaker A:Where's Chevy Chase?
Speaker A:You know, I.
Speaker A:I do think there are moments where it's a little over long and it could have been a tad simplified just to really make the message a tad more cohesive and not that.
Speaker A:And Gilliam's not interested in being accessible.
Speaker A:Let's just be real.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker A:That's why there are five versions of this movie there.
Speaker A:There are literally five versions.
Speaker A:He did four commentaries.
Speaker A:And in this commentary, he said, and this is the last time I'm ever doing this commentary.
Speaker A:He's like, this is the fif final commentary for this movie.
Speaker C:Oh, that's funny.
Speaker A:And he's more pissed off with each one I got.
Speaker A:He doesn't really look back on this movie fondly.
Speaker A:So.
Speaker A:I love the messaging.
Speaker A:It resonates deeply, the dreaming aspect of it.
Speaker A:But I do think there are just a few subtle transitionary moments, especially between reality and dreams.
Speaker A:Because, you know, like, you asked a great question.
Speaker A:Where's the psychosis?
Speaker A:Begin.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker A:I think as the movie goes along, it gets a little more rhythmic where, okay, I get the jumps, I get where I'm going.
Speaker A:But early on I, I think it's very muddy as to what this is.
Speaker A:The commentary is a little lost.
Speaker A:So that's why I did go.
Speaker A:I did go Central Services, but we've still got a six to one here.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:I think what's really nice is though, at the time when we went out to the movies, it was nice to see a long movie.
Speaker A:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker B:You know, we went out to the movie because that's what we were doing.
Speaker B:We weren't like, I saw the movie and I gotta get home and then I gotta get on my phone.
Speaker C:It was the event.
Speaker B:It was the event.
Speaker B:And I love, I love that that's the event.
Speaker B:And yep.
Speaker B:I love, I love long movies.
Speaker B:Talking about the, the Brutalist.
Speaker A:Yep.
Speaker B:I loved it so much.
Speaker B:I want to watch it again.
Speaker B:And I didn't even feel like the three hours.
Speaker B:Yeah, 30 minutes.
Speaker B:It felt like.
Speaker A:I love long movies that aren't about superheroes.
Speaker A:No offense.
Speaker B:Oh, yeah, me, me too.
Speaker B:I'm glad we get along with that too.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:You know, I said this in the last pod is like Snyder asked for four, four hours of my time for that.
Speaker B:You know what's really unfortunate about the Marvel films and why DC is so much better?
Speaker B:Everyone's gonna hate me.
Speaker B:Everyone's gonna hate me.
Speaker C:And that's where we connect.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:Is the villains suck.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:The villains are such garbage.
Speaker B:Undeveloped, one dimensional, non existent, not realistic, brainwashing, lame characters.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:It's like, I'm bad guy.
Speaker B:Look at my fist.
Speaker B:Could you like think of the more douchier thing than being like this guy and I'm bad, You know, like the.
Speaker C:Fister, you know, it's just like Fister.
Speaker B:And like with DC is like, you know, we all love the Joker.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:We all love Scarecrow.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:We all love these really dark, like tormented characters who have backstories, who have personalities, who have like.
Speaker B:You want to dress up as them.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker C:No one's dressing up as, as Obadiah from the first Iron man movie.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Obadiah.
Speaker B:I don't even remember.
Speaker B:Who knows who that is.
Speaker C:He's Jeff Bridges.
Speaker C:He's the main villain until Iron man movie.
Speaker B:All I can, all I remember from Iron man is Iron Man.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:You know, that's, that's all I can remember.
Speaker B:You're watching Marvel movies for the superhero.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:And you're not watching it for the villain.
Speaker B:So what are you're not excited to, to go against what's.
Speaker B:What's like to take that person down because those characters are so boring.
Speaker B:You're like, when are you going to kill him?
Speaker B:Is he dead yet?
Speaker B:I mean, like, let's, let's, let's wrap it up, you know?
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:And it's like when you root for your villain, like Heath Ledger.
Speaker A:Yeah, Bane, too.
Speaker B:Yeah, Bane.
Speaker B:Yeah, I know.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker C:I think that was probably the biggest difference between Steppenwolf in Justice League and Steppenwolf in the Snyder cut was like, you watch the Snyder cut and you finally see this menacing motherfucker.
Speaker C:But then you also get that backstory of like, oh, no, he's.
Speaker C:He's in the doghouse with the people he's working with.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker C:And it's like, there's depth to him.
Speaker C:Finally.
Speaker C:He's not just alien number seven.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Six to one.
Speaker A:Brazil.
Speaker A:We found.
Speaker A:We found ourselves on a lot of amazing tangents here, but it was great.
Speaker A:What an interesting film.
Speaker A:And I'm guessing that you may not have watched this film before, and I hope you went and watched it before you listened to this whole podcast episode.
Speaker A:It's a great film.
Speaker A:Go check it out.
Speaker A:Dive into some Terry Gilliam.
Speaker A:So glad to have you again, Mozart.
Speaker A:Your perspective was fantastic.
Speaker A:And is there anything that you got coming out, Any music videos or films coming out you want people to check out or.
Speaker B:Yeah, I got.
Speaker B:I got a bunch of new music videos coming out.
Speaker B:Hopefully I can finish them.
Speaker B:I've been taking more of my time on them.
Speaker B:Is if there's anything I do have to say as someone who's a musician or a filmmaker and influencer, an influencer with 135,000 followers and have gotten to work with Netflix, Adobe, Ray Banska, Nike and Starbucks.
Speaker B:Even, you know, it's.
Speaker B:It don't make things that are going to be timeless.
Speaker B:Take your time on it.
Speaker B:It's okay.
Speaker B:Stop.
Speaker B:Make.
Speaker B:Let's.
Speaker B:Let's stop making fast food content.
Speaker A:It's.
Speaker B:It's really soul sucking.
Speaker B:Don't follow trends.
Speaker B:You're just.
Speaker B:Why would you contribute to something that's not going to change things?
Speaker B:And I get people telling me the same thing, all these, like, well, if everything was challenging, we wouldn't appreciate it.
Speaker B:It's like, no, why would you dumb our human race like that?
Speaker B:We all are capable of developing constantly every single day and learning things.
Speaker B:We're just making the excuse that we're lazy.
Speaker B:I think that we.
Speaker B:Whatever, whatever you do, it has to be timeless and honest.
Speaker B:And don't rush it, because when you make content that is just for the trend or just for the minute, no one's going to remember it.
Speaker B:And what we just watched is rememberable.
Speaker B:And I want whatever we do for the rest of our lives to exist.
Speaker B:You know, here we are at the age that we're at, and Terry Gilliam just made something so many years ago, and we're 40 years ago.
Speaker B:And you.
Speaker B:And you think that your.
Speaker B:Your TikTok video.
Speaker B:This is.
Speaker B:This is from somebody who used to post three times a day, every single day, and go live for two hours in the morning and two hours at night.
Speaker B:I understand it.
Speaker B:And it's.
Speaker B:Don't abuse yourself and don't write a song just because it needs to help the algorithm that no one's going to remember and care about it.
Speaker B:No one is covering those songs.
Speaker B:Everybody's covering Beatles songs.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:You know, everyone's covering Led Zeppelin songs and Rolling Stone songs because they took time.
Speaker B:And I.
Speaker B:And I think that's the most important thing about whatever we do in life.
Speaker A:And then people call you fat on TikTok, too.
Speaker A:Fuck you guys for that.
Speaker A:I've lost 40 pounds.
Speaker B:It looks good.
Speaker A:Thank you.
Speaker A:Look at me.
Speaker A:He didn't even know me before and he knows how good I look.
Speaker A:40 pound guy.
Speaker A:Well, don't find yourself in a dystopian future here.
Speaker A:I love that.
Speaker A:Be creative.
Speaker A:Be yourself.
Speaker A:I am Kyle.
Speaker A:Myself.
Speaker C:I'm Seth Mozart.
Speaker B:Gabriel.
Speaker A:Love y'all guys.
Speaker A:Y'all guys, us guys.
Speaker A:Y'all guys.
Speaker A:Bye.
Speaker A:I get worse and worse.
