Black Swan with Marianna Barksdale
In this episode of the Movie Wars podcast, stand-up comedian Marianna Barksdale brings her unique perspective as a former ballerina to our in-depth dive into Darren Aronofsky's Black Swan. Together, hosts Kyle and Seth explore the complex relationship between perfectionism and psychological breakdown, as embodied by Natalie Portman’s iconic performance as Nina Sayers.
We unpack Nina’s struggle with the duality of the white and black swan, exploring themes of obsession, identity, and the toll of striving for artistic excellence. Marianna’s first-hand experience in the ballet world provides an authentic and intimate lens through which to understand the pressures faced by dancers, both in the film and in real life.
The episode takes a deep look at Black Swan’s cinematography and sound design, highlighting how Aronofsky’s direction elevates the film’s haunting tension. We also reflect on the broader implications of the story’s portrayal of mental health, artistic ambition, and the intense self-doubt that comes with pursuing perfection. Marianna’s insights enrich this conversation, drawing powerful parallels between Nina’s descent into madness and the real sacrifices made in the pursuit of artistic brilliance.
This episode is a must-listen for fans of Black Swan, ballet enthusiasts, and anyone interested in the intersection of mental health and the performing arts. Don’t miss out on this compelling analysis that resonates with cinephiles and casual viewers alike!
Key Takeaways:
- Marianna Barksdale’s insider perspective as a ballerina adds a unique depth to the discussion.
- Black Swan explores the psychological costs of perfectionism, ambition, and identity.
- The film’s cinematography and sound design immerse viewers in Nina's spiraling journey.
- Aronofsky’s directorial choices heighten the visceral experience of the film.
- Mental health and the pressures of the performing arts are central themes of the conversation.
Mentioned in this episode:
- Black Swan
- Midsommar
- Noah
- The Whale
- The Fountain
- The Fighter
- Requiem for a Dream
- Mother
Transcript
Foreign.
Speaker A:Ladies and gentlemen, welcome back to the Movie wars podcast.
Speaker A:I'm Kyle.
Speaker B:I'm Seth.
Speaker C:I'm Mariana.
Speaker A:A third timer.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:I was trying to remember.
Speaker A:I was like.
Speaker A:I knew she was one of the few that had repeated, but this is her third time on the show.
Speaker B:Yeah, it's funny.
Speaker B:You're going to watch next week's episode because we recorded it before this week's episode, and we're going to be like, she's back.
Speaker B:And then I'm like, oh, yeah, but she's already back for this one because we did.
Speaker A:We did mid Summer, and I forgot we had to release it during Midsummer, so.
Speaker B:So sneak peek next week, Midsommar.
Speaker B:You're going to love it.
Speaker A:And we really booked ourselves for Just Happiness row here.
Speaker B:Yeah, I love that we started the month with Blades of glory at 300.
Speaker B:Like, really got jacked.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:And now we're just, like, we're going to cry for two weeks.
Speaker A:Black Swan in Midsummer.
Speaker B:Oh, what a one two punch combo to the balls.
Speaker A:Sadness.
Speaker B:Oh, my God.
Speaker A:I watched both of them on airplanes, too.
Speaker A:Two really bad movies to watch on a PAC plane.
Speaker A:Just constantly going, don't watch the sex.
Speaker B:Don't watch the sex.
Speaker A:And every time.
Speaker A:Every time a damn.
Speaker A:I almost said waitress.
Speaker B:The sky waitress.
Speaker A:Every time.
Speaker A:A damn sky waitress.
Speaker A:Which, let's be real, some of them are fantastic, but some of them act like sky waitresses walking by.
Speaker A:I'm just like, I.
Speaker A:I didn't do.
Speaker A:She's not stabbing her in the eye, I promise.
Speaker B:At least you didn't say stewardess, because they hate that.
Speaker C:Yeah, that's on a boat.
Speaker C:Yeah, that's still used on a boat.
Speaker C:You're the head stew in case y' all don't watch Below Day.
Speaker B:Oh, that's dope.
Speaker C:It's amazing.
Speaker A:Black Swan.
Speaker B:What a trip.
Speaker A:What a trip.
Speaker A:From a guy that likes to make trips.
Speaker A:Yeah, I mean, that's kind of.
Speaker A:That's kind of his thing.
Speaker A:Mr.
Speaker A:Aronofsky here, who's, you know, he teeters the line to me.
Speaker A:I just.
Speaker A:This thought literally just hit me.
Speaker A:But, you know, I'm constantly.
Speaker A:When we're doing this show, I'm assessing.
Speaker A:Like, are we talking about a perennial artur here?
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:I wouldn't necessarily say he's worked himself into that status necessarily.
Speaker A:I don't know.
Speaker A:What do you think?
Speaker B:I'm like, oh, he's 100% an auteur.
Speaker A:You think he's an auteur?
Speaker B:100%.
Speaker B:Look, the weirdest movie for his style of filmmaking.
Speaker B:He's ever made was Noah.
Speaker B:And even that was such an incredibly artistic look at what I would consider to be biblical mythology.
Speaker B:So, yeah, it was very much outside of his style.
Speaker B:But no, you look at the.
Speaker B:The majority of his movies, he's very much an auteur.
Speaker B:So.
Speaker B:No 100.
Speaker A:And I think you might be right.
Speaker A:I think the wrestler maybe, and is the one that.
Speaker B:I still need to see that one.
Speaker C:Oh, that's my favorite.
Speaker A:We need to do that as the crossover.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker A:Spandex.
Speaker B:And that was.
Speaker B:That was between Requiem for a Dream and.
Speaker B:And Black Swan.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:2008.
Speaker C:So good.
Speaker B:Okay.
Speaker C:One of my favorite.
Speaker B:When did Black Swan come out?
Speaker A: Black Swan came out in: Speaker B:Okay.
Speaker A: So Requiem for a Dream,: Speaker B:Okay.
Speaker A:The thing I didn't realize is how many movies he's produced, though.
Speaker B:Oh, yeah.
Speaker A:He's produced, like, three times more movies than he's directed.
Speaker B:He produced the Fighter.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:That's what the money is.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Which I love the Fighter.
Speaker C:The Fighter's great.
Speaker B:That was the David O.
Speaker B:Russell movie.
Speaker B:I.
Speaker B:That was the only time I've ever hated Amy Adams.
Speaker C:Really?
Speaker B:Her voice was so annoying in that movie.
Speaker B:What were you doing at the bar at the bath?
Speaker B:Like, okay, calm down.
Speaker B:You're somehow more annoying than Mark Wahlberg in this movie.
Speaker B:Chill.
Speaker A:Well, what were you doing at the bar?
Speaker A:I worship Gad.
Speaker A:Oh, my God.
Speaker B:I will say my favorite shot from that movie is Christian Bale launching himself out of a window so that he.
Speaker B:And walking away with a broken leg.
Speaker A:He's incredible.
Speaker C:It's a really good movie.
Speaker A:So it sounds like we were talking before the show.
Speaker A:All three of us had a different feel for our rewatch of this movie.
Speaker A:Compared.
Speaker A:Talk about that from the first time you watched it, for some reason, it hit differently second time.
Speaker A:Why?
Speaker B:It's.
Speaker B:Well, for me, it's not that it hit differently.
Speaker B:I just have a very different perspective on a few things, which I'll get to when we get to the questions.
Speaker B: t time I watched it was like,: Speaker B:So it was very much removed from when it came out.
Speaker B:I do remember it coming out, but I wasn't really into that side of movies yet.
Speaker B:Still very much in.
Speaker B:In my.
Speaker B:My Christian bubble.
Speaker B:So there was a lot of things I didn't know about in the movie industry until later.
Speaker B:But when I did see it, I.
Speaker B:I very much get queasy with the body horror, especially when it comes to fingernails for some reason.
Speaker B:So that moment that.
Speaker B:That scene where the mom's cutting her nails and, like, the moment where she peels her finger back, like, hurt the second time this time, going through it and knowing those things were coming, it was definitely a lot easier for me to get through the rest of it.
Speaker B:But it's.
Speaker A:It's.
Speaker B:Yeah, it is such a fascinating movie.
Speaker B:I thought it was based on a book and then realized that this was a fully original story.
Speaker B:That.
Speaker B:That the author of the.
Speaker B:Or like the.
Speaker B:The guy who wrote the story, because I don't think he published it ever as, like, in anything other than the script.
Speaker B:And so he wrote the story, and then he and two other guys wrote the script and.
Speaker B:But I was shocked.
Speaker B:I was like, this feels like it would be a book.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:Like, it feels like they took a novel that no one had really heard of and turned it into this grand, you know, showcase of.
Speaker B:Of an aspect of the ballerina industry.
Speaker B:But now fully original script, which I think is incredible.
Speaker C:Is it loosely based on the actual.
Speaker C:Like, on Swan Lake?
Speaker C:Because it remind the story of the movie.
Speaker C:This is what, during my rewatch I realized because I was.
Speaker C:I did Swan Lake when I was in high school.
Speaker B:Oh, nice.
Speaker C:So it's.
Speaker B:We were both ballerinas, by the way.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:Yeah, I was.
Speaker B:I was six years old, the only boy in a class of 13 girls.
Speaker B:And cooties were big.
Speaker B:So I did not take anywhere near.
Speaker A:The advantage of that.
Speaker B:There's literally.
Speaker B:The group picture is hilarious because it is me dead center, and all the other girls are just, like, all around posing, and I'm sitting there with my hands on my waist looking up like, I'm so uncomfortable right now.
Speaker B:It's.
Speaker B:What is going on?
Speaker B:It's hilarious.
Speaker B:I need to get that from my mom.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker C:Oh, my God.
Speaker C:I wish we had taken ballet together.
Speaker C:That would have been.
Speaker B:That would have been hilarious.
Speaker C:Like, we go way back, actually.
Speaker B:Back to ballet ballerinas together.
Speaker C:But, yeah, I did.
Speaker C:I did ballet for 15 years, which is a long time.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker C:And I wasn't very good at it.
Speaker C:Everyone would say that got a couple of good pictures.
Speaker C:But the.
Speaker C:The movie reminded me of Swan Lake loosely.
Speaker B:Well, yeah, I mean, I think, obviously, with it being the centerpiece of the story, clearly.
Speaker B:I mean, and obviously the whole time she's going through this.
Speaker B:Am I the white swan?
Speaker B:Am I the black swan?
Speaker B:Like, that.
Speaker B:That dichotomy is there.
Speaker B:So I definitely think with it being the subject matter, it clearly influenced the rest of the story.
Speaker C:Yeah, it's a really beautiful way to tell it.
Speaker A:Though.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker C:But, man, the first time I watched it, when I.
Speaker C:I don't know, I guess it was right when it came out because I was obsessed with ballet.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker C:And Swan Lake.
Speaker C:And that was so.
Speaker C: It came out in: Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker C: nd I graduated high school in: Speaker C:I was the Black swan and the White swan for my, like, senior thesis or whatever, so it was always my favorite ballet.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker C:It's so good.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker C:But, yeah.
Speaker A:Yeah, this was.
Speaker A:And I texted you both this.
Speaker A:But this.
Speaker A:This kind of gave me some ptsd because this.
Speaker A:And I wanted to shout out, I don't.
Speaker A:We're not always serious because we're comedians.
Speaker A:But this huge dedication to this episode to an old friend of mine.
Speaker A:I won't name her, but the reason this.
Speaker A:This movie was very triggering because I knew a friend that I grew up with from basically my.
Speaker A:I guess, my Sophia year of high school onward.
Speaker B:I went to church with your hard year.
Speaker A:My hard year.
Speaker A:But, yeah.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Sophomore.
Speaker A:Sophomore.
Speaker B:You're more softier.
Speaker A:Existential crisis.
Speaker A:But she was this child prodigy, like, ball.
Speaker A:Ballerina, and she.
Speaker A:She was destined.
Speaker A:And she.
Speaker A:If you were to talk to her, though, you wouldn't get the sense that she was this.
Speaker A:Because she was so insanely disciplined, hard on herself.
Speaker A:Never, Never.
Speaker A:Like, you would watch her dance and you would think, like, wow, she literally fell out of heaven.
Speaker A:Like.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:You couldn't believe just the precision.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:But in her mind, she was dog.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:And then she dated a guy that made her feel like dog.
Speaker A:And so, anyway, dedication to my old friend.
Speaker A:I hope you're doing well.
Speaker A:And I'm sorry.
Speaker A:And, yeah, that sucks.
Speaker A:But serious moment.
Speaker A:I don't know why I went serious there, but I thought of her this whole movie.
Speaker A:Because Natalie Portman's character is so haunted.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:She.
Speaker A:She can't live.
Speaker A:She can't get out of her shell because everything is in worship of this idea of perfection.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:And.
Speaker A:And that really is the message of this.
Speaker A:Like, there's the idea of artistic struggle, of being so dedicated and.
Speaker A:And in debt to your creative desires that you create perfection.
Speaker A:And then this idea of what does perfection look like and what cost?
Speaker A:At what cost.
Speaker B:Yep.
Speaker A:And so I just kept thinking of my friend because I just know, like, she didn't have a life.
Speaker A:You know, she was, you know, ballet, and that was it.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:And so, yeah, this.
Speaker A:Wow.
Speaker A:I just.
Speaker A:I thought of that the whole time.
Speaker A:This movie was hard to watch for that reason.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:I mean, it's hard to watch for a lot of reasons.
Speaker B:Yeah, Yeah, I can.
Speaker B:I can definitely imagine.
Speaker B:I watched it last night with my roommate, and we were discussing it the whole time, and I was like, yeah, this is one of those movies I will definitely revisit.
Speaker B:But it's.
Speaker B:It's.
Speaker B:There's going to be many years in between each.
Speaker B:Each rewatch kind of same with Requiem for a Dream.
Speaker B:Yeah, it's.
Speaker B:They're very hard to watch.
Speaker B:And.
Speaker B:And Darren Aronofsky in particular, is so good at the discomfort side of whatever his subject matter is.
Speaker B:Like that movie, I always describe Requiem for a Dream as.
Speaker B:The first half will make you really, really, really, really, really want to do drugs.
Speaker B:The second half will make you never, ever, ever, ever, ever want to touch drugs.
Speaker A:Yes.
Speaker B:And it's like watching that slow spiral for both movies is.
Speaker B:Is so uncomfortable.
Speaker A:And he does it in a way, too.
Speaker A:Like, you know, Paul Thomas Anderson's another director that does really well with discomfort, but Aronofsky has his own.
Speaker A:He.
Speaker A:He zooms in on it.
Speaker A:Like, what do they call them?
Speaker A:The.
Speaker A:He named the shots where the.
Speaker A:The shooting up.
Speaker A:Zoom in shots.
Speaker B:Like what his name.
Speaker B:They're called inserts, but I don't know what his name.
Speaker A:He had a name for it.
Speaker A:Like those.
Speaker A:Like, just all of a sudden it's like, boom.
Speaker A:And shooting up.
Speaker A:Boom.
Speaker A:Like eyes dialing.
Speaker C:Like.
Speaker A:Oh, my God.
Speaker A:It's like.
Speaker A:Yes.
Speaker A:It's just, like, so uncomfortable.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:And then on top of that, every score Clint Mansell does, because he did Requieve for a Dream, he did this one, it's because it's funny.
Speaker B:We were talking about it, I realized it hadn't been nominated for best score.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:And McKenna and I were talking about it, and she was like, yeah.
Speaker B:I don't think any of it really stood out.
Speaker B:I couldn't tell you what the score was.
Speaker B:And I was like.
Speaker B:I could tell you exactly what the score is because you have the first prologue section with the dancing where you have the full orchestra, and then as the movie progresses, the music almost builds in the same way that it is in the rehearsals.
Speaker B:It's very stripped down.
Speaker B:Mostly just piano at the beginning.
Speaker B:And then as the story progresses is as it gets bigger and bigger.
Speaker B:So it really just sets the discomfort over the edge, in my opinion.
Speaker B:Like, it does.
Speaker B:Takes it to a whole new level.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:Oh, this is reminding me.
Speaker C:I completely forgot I saw Clint Manzo live in concert in this church in New York City.
Speaker C:It was so good.
Speaker B:That sounds insane.
Speaker C:Oh, my God.
Speaker C:It was the coolest thing I've ever experienced, honestly.
Speaker C:But.
Speaker C:And it's just all so visceral.
Speaker C:Everything he makes, everything Aronofsky makes together, they're just a match made in heaven.
Speaker B:Absolutely.
Speaker B:It's so good.
Speaker C:So good.
Speaker C:Good.
Speaker A:Maybe you have a doppelganger out there.
Speaker A:An evil, dark table.
Speaker A:Doppel dabble gonger.
Speaker A:I mispronounce at least seven words.
Speaker A:Exacerbate.
Speaker A:I am from Arkansas.
Speaker A:Next week I get a bogey from Arkansas.
Speaker A:But maybe they're haunting you.
Speaker A:And you know what?
Speaker A:They would just chill if you would give a Movie Wars.
Speaker A:Just send them a link.
Speaker A:There's a share button there.
Speaker A:It's easy.
Speaker A:Your grandma, your doppelganger.
Speaker A:Anybody can benefit from listening to Movie Wars.
Speaker B:Maybe Mila Kunis is trying to finger you and you just.
Speaker B:You gotta share Movie Wars.
Speaker A:Maybe she is.
Speaker B:Maybe she is.
Speaker A:Or she's just playing Meg or.
Speaker B:Or maybe she's not even there.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Oh, we don't know.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Who knows?
Speaker C:Not to give it away.
Speaker B:Maybe she's drugging you.
Speaker A:Who?
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:Hopefully.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:Check out Movie Wars.
Speaker C:That part where she.
Speaker C:Where she roofies her friend.
Speaker C:I did not.
Speaker C:That was where I was.
Speaker B:That wasn't roofies.
Speaker C:Sorry.
Speaker C:She didn't roofie her friend.
Speaker C:She drugged her friend.
Speaker A:Very much true.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker C:It is different, but it's.
Speaker B:Because that was.
Speaker B:That was.
Speaker B:Was that Molly or ecstasy?
Speaker A:Tylenol.
Speaker C:It was.
Speaker A:She said.
Speaker C:She said.
Speaker B:Gummy vitamin.
Speaker C:What's rolling?
Speaker B:It's.
Speaker B:It's Molly and ecstasy, so I don't know which one it was.
Speaker C:Oh, then I don't know.
Speaker B:Yeah, I can't remember which one is like the dark crystal, but drugging anybody.
Speaker C:Who doesn't do any drugs.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker C:Roofing them.
Speaker C:Oh, my God.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:If anyone did that to me, it'd be a disaster.
Speaker A:I've never.
Speaker A:I've never done any kind of hallucinogen.
Speaker A:If you did it to me, I'd probably.
Speaker A:Probably turn into a serial killer.
Speaker B:I will say the visual, though, like, where she keeps having those waves go across her arm.
Speaker B:Every single person I know who's done Molly, Ecstasy, whatever, has described it exactly like that.
Speaker C:Wow.
Speaker B:Or it's like.
Speaker B:Yeah, you just get these waves of feeling over your body, and that's why they call it rolling, is because it's like you're rolling waves.
Speaker C:Fine, I'll do it.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Say no more.
Speaker B:Mariana and I are about to do a lot of drugs together.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker C:And then I'm going to go sober for drugs.
Speaker A:July.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:I'm going to go home and eat pork rinds.
Speaker B:There we go.
Speaker A:That's my version of I Got half.
Speaker B:A bag in there if you need some.
Speaker A:Really?
Speaker A: Shout out to: Speaker A:The.
Speaker A:The best Chichiron out there.
Speaker B:Oh, I just do the Kroger brand because they're 2 bucks.
Speaker A:4504.
Speaker A:They're so good.
Speaker A:The white jalapeno cheddar.
Speaker B:Hell, yeah.
Speaker A:Yes.
Speaker A:So the questions.
Speaker A:You want to start off with a question?
Speaker B:Yes.
Speaker B:How much of the abuse do you think is real?
Speaker B:Because here's the thing that I did not think about until this rewatch.
Speaker B:I very much think he kissed her at the beginning, and she bit him.
Speaker B:And that's where he was like, oh, there is something in you.
Speaker B:Part of me wonders if that whole scene where he's feeling her up while they're dancing isn't just her psychosis.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:Part of me feels like half of the stuff with the mom is just her psychosis.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:So this is where I'm like, where do you think?
Speaker B:Because we had this question with American Psycho.
Speaker B:Where do you think the psychosis begins, and how much of that do you think actually happened?
Speaker C:Oh, man.
Speaker C:I want to believe that all the stuff with the mom's real because that reminds me so much of my relationship with my mom, especially when I was.
Speaker B:Well, it's also a very stereotypical ballerina mom kind of situation.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:I'm the Swan Queen.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker C:You never left the core.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Oh, what a moment.
Speaker C:That is the best line in the whole movie.
Speaker C:That's a really good point.
Speaker C:I don't think anybody.
Speaker C:So she has the psychosis going on, but nobody really ever mentions the fact that she's also extremely anorexic.
Speaker C:And that makes you very loopy.
Speaker B:Oh, yeah.
Speaker B:No, I think half of the psychosis started from the anorexia.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:But that's where I'm like, did he really feel her up?
Speaker B:Because I'm pretty sure we all agree he was not fucking Mila Kunis near the end there.
Speaker B:Like, where she walks into the darkness of the studio and she sees.
Speaker B:I don't think that happened.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:So it's like, did he really feel her up, or did he just say the seduction part?
Speaker C:It's a good point.
Speaker C:I don't know.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker C:I really don't know.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker C:This is what I love about Aronofsky.
Speaker C:What's real.
Speaker A:Yeah, I think that's the point.
Speaker A:I don't think.
Speaker A:I think he.
Speaker A:I think he really leaned into the visuals more than.
Speaker A:And then caring if we knew what was real or not.
Speaker A:I think it was intentional that it's yeah.
Speaker A:Especially because the.
Speaker A:You know, the.
Speaker A:The whole movie is about her personality splitting into two and Lily coming to terms with this dark side of herself.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:And, you know, and.
Speaker A:And that's a.
Speaker A:It was a visual.
Speaker A:It was.
Speaker A:And that was probably when.
Speaker A:When the director is with Mila Kunis.
Speaker A:That is the most confusing visual in the movie to me, because that was the moment.
Speaker A:It's funny, you asking this question.
Speaker A:That was the first question I had when I finished this movie.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:That visual is the one that gets me the most confused.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:I don't know.
Speaker A:After that, I thought I had kind of an idea, and then I saw that, I was like.
Speaker A:I don't know.
Speaker B:See, that's what I'm like.
Speaker B:I.
Speaker B:I definitely feel like that that moment was full hallucination.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:But that's when I started, because I looked at McKenna and I was like, hold on.
Speaker B:If this is fake.
Speaker B:Did he actually feel her up in.
Speaker B:In the other scene?
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:Because now we don't know if Mila Kunis had sex with her, and we.
Speaker A:Don'T know if Mila Kunis is real.
Speaker C:Yeah, that's a good point.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:I was wondering if she was real the whole time.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker C:Because she's exactly the opposite of Natalie Portman's character.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker C:Like, the perfect opposite.
Speaker A:The only problem.
Speaker C:Not a ballerina.
Speaker C:She is not good.
Speaker C:She is not a dancer.
Speaker C:She is nothing like any ballerina I've ever met.
Speaker B:No.
Speaker C:And she's, like, normal.
Speaker C:She's fun.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker C:She's not hard on herself.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Eating burgers.
Speaker C:She couldn't get to that level of ballet.
Speaker B:No.
Speaker C:With that personality.
Speaker B:No.
Speaker A:The problem is, too that.
Speaker A:And you're so right.
Speaker A:And the problem with it is, too, is that he, the director, acknowledges her.
Speaker A:Like, it's not like.
Speaker A:It's not like other movies where you.
Speaker A:There's a figment.
Speaker A:And then you go back, wow.
Speaker A:I guess no one ever really acknowledged that person's presence.
Speaker B:But how much of her was real?
Speaker B:Because he only acknowledges her, like, three times.
Speaker B:The mom seems very confused because she's like, it's nobody at the door.
Speaker B:And then when she goes out, she's like, what are you doing?
Speaker B:Who are you talking to?
Speaker B:Like, what's going on?
Speaker B:And then when she comes back, she doesn't acknowledge that Mila Kunis is there.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:She literally goes to ballet practice with her hair down.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:She's a professional.
Speaker C:No.
Speaker C:Okay, you.
Speaker B:But she's a San.
Speaker B:San Francisco professional.
Speaker A:Right off the bus from San Francisco.
Speaker C:You got hit with Kane by my Russian ballet teacher.
Speaker C:Oh, my God.
Speaker B:Wait, were you in the John Wick universe?
Speaker C:I didn't realize they were going to make a story about my life this time.
Speaker B:This is when we find out she's secretly an assassin.
Speaker A:Yes.
Speaker C:Yeah, yeah, it's to find out this way.
Speaker A:Yeah, I know.
Speaker A:If I got to die, I got to die on this podcast, I guess.
Speaker B:All right, you're going to have to cut this out.
Speaker B:Hold on.
Speaker B:There we go.
Speaker C:I don't see why cut out like.
Speaker A:That unless it said a dirty word, you know?
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:And it's funny that we're talking about this, because as we're talking about, I.
Speaker A:It's funny.
Speaker A:This doesn't happen often, but I.
Speaker A:I watched this, like, a week ago, and I still don't know how I feel about it.
Speaker A:Yeah, it's.
Speaker A:It's.
Speaker A:There was so much.
Speaker A:I appreciate it, but just having this conversation, like, I wish I knew more about what.
Speaker A:Because there wasn't a commentary on the version I had.
Speaker A:There were some special features, but I.
Speaker A:I'm just like.
Speaker A:I don't know what he wanted to show us, and I know the general premise and ideas that were there, but the.
Speaker A:The.
Speaker A:The.
Speaker A:The psychosis element of it does make it difficult to understand what really he was trying to express.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:I think part of it.
Speaker B:And, I mean, this is the obvious one, but I think part of it is definitely the.
Speaker B:The.
Speaker B:The kind of bipolar nature of her, because clearly.
Speaker B:And, I mean, I.
Speaker B:I know there are instances of bipolar disorder that can induce psychosis.
Speaker A:Yes.
Speaker B:So that is a real thing.
Speaker A:But that's my mom.
Speaker B:Lovely.
Speaker B:But it's like, obviously, that's.
Speaker B:That's the obvious part of it.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:Like, yeah, it.
Speaker B:Clearly, there's so many more layers to it.
Speaker B:I know it was very controversial in the ballet industry when it came out, and it was heavily protest.
Speaker B:We feel like we cover a lot of heavily protested movies.
Speaker B:But it's like, I know there's stereotypes that go along with.
Speaker B:Oh, yeah, ballerinas are.
Speaker B:Are heavily miss.
Speaker B:Like, miss.
Speaker B:They're.
Speaker B:They're used.
Speaker B:They're.
Speaker B:They're abused.
Speaker B:Like, But I don't think this was designed to showcase the entire ballet industry.
Speaker B:I feel like this was supposed to show an isolated story of.
Speaker B:Of one example of, hey, this is part of the industry.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker C:Or the old industry.
Speaker C:It's a little old now.
Speaker C:Now ballerinas are muscular and they're.
Speaker C:They're well fed and they're healthy.
Speaker C:You know, they look happy.
Speaker C:They seem athletic and happy.
Speaker C:And I've watched a ballerina on on TikTok or something.
Speaker C:Instagram.
Speaker C:She was talking about how she had to lose half a pound.
Speaker C:And it was just this, like, writing down everything.
Speaker C:She's like, I can have three oranges and I can have this and that.
Speaker C:And I was like, wow.
Speaker C:I would have just not eaten for a week.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker C:That's how I would have dealt with that problem.
Speaker B:So chicken and rice, y' all.
Speaker C:I think it's better now.
Speaker C:I think that this is maybe even a portrait of, like, the old ballet industry.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker C:Because I love Winona, writer's character.
Speaker A:Wow.
Speaker C:What a perfect casting there.
Speaker B:She's so good.
Speaker A:Yes.
Speaker A:And that was one of the first things she had done in a long time.
Speaker A:She was kind of.
Speaker A:She was kind of ousted.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker A:In the industry for a little while.
Speaker A:Was it after she stole a bunch of shit?
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:It was shoplifting.
Speaker C:It's always the shoplifting.
Speaker B:I feel like that's what that Family Guy episode where Lois is shoplifting is about, is that.
Speaker A:And obviously she's made a huge comeback.
Speaker A:She.
Speaker A:I mean, I don't like Stranger Things, but people seem to like her in that.
Speaker C:Yeah, she's really good in that.
Speaker B:I've seen the first three seasons.
Speaker B:It's fine.
Speaker B:I'm waiting for the finale to come out before I watch the last couple, but, yeah.
Speaker C:Oh, that's a good idea.
Speaker C:I really like Stranger Things.
Speaker B:It definitely, in some ways, feels like a Super 8 ripoff, but, yeah, Super 8's incredible.
Speaker B:But I.
Speaker B:I like it.
Speaker B:I think it's.
Speaker B:It.
Speaker B:It did a cool thing where it brought DND finally into the mainstream.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:Like, I don't think the DND movie would have survived without Stranger Things.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:That's a good point.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker C:I like Stranger Things, but it.
Speaker C:I just think maybe it's because I wanted Super 8 to be 80 hours long.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker C:I don't know.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker C:I just want these movies to be 65 hours.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker C:To 100 hours.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker C:And they're usually just one or two.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:No.
Speaker A:Interesting question.
Speaker A:I'm trying to think of a more interesting question than what I have written down, because this conversation.
Speaker B:No, these are good.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker A:Is it just me, or does this whole movie feel like a.
Speaker A:Like a radio head music video?
Speaker B:I mean, isn't that most of Darren Aronofsky's work?
Speaker B:Just, like, did it.
Speaker B:Did he direct music videos?
Speaker A:He did one.
Speaker A:He did one with either Radiohead or Tom York.
Speaker B:I was about to say.
Speaker B:I'm pretty sure.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:I'm pretty sure he's worked with Radiohead at least.
Speaker B:Once or twice.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:Like it makes sense.
Speaker C:That makes so much sense because radio has so like Surrealist.
Speaker C:Yeah, that's a good word for.
Speaker C:I was going to say emo.
Speaker C:Not in a good way.
Speaker B:They kind of predated the emo scene.
Speaker C:No, and I do like radio head a lot.
Speaker C:It just reminds me of like when I was such an emotional teenager.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker C:And that's never good.
Speaker A:Yeah, I'm a die hard radio head fan.
Speaker A:I have so much of their stuff in violence.
Speaker B:You mean the radio head?
Speaker A:The radio head, yeah, the.
Speaker A:The radio heads.
Speaker A:The radio heads.
Speaker C:Is it really the radio.
Speaker B:Oh, no, no, no, no.
Speaker B:He just got lambasted in one of our clips because he said the Deftones and people were like, you it's def.
Speaker B:To.
Speaker A:Just drove off a bridge.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:It was a horrible time to be alive.
Speaker C:That was you guys.
Speaker A:At least they weren't calling me fat.
Speaker B:Not in that one.
Speaker A:Not in that one.
Speaker B:A week later they were.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:So it was, you know, it's.
Speaker A:It really does though.
Speaker A:I mean there's.
Speaker A:There are.
Speaker A:As much as I'm conflicted about how I feel about this movie, the visuals and the, the choreography and the darkness and the mirrors, there is a lot like to feast on just visually.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:There was one moment where she goes in the bathroom and in the bathroom stall she calls her mom to say that she got the part.
Speaker B:And I looked at my roommate and I was like, only Darren Aronofsky and his cinematographer could make a completely plastic gray wall interesting visually.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:Like somehow that shot of the only like texture is her on the phone.
Speaker B:Everything else is just washed out gray background.
Speaker B:Somehow that shot is still interesting to look at.
Speaker C:I have no idea how they do this things.
Speaker C:This is not my thing.
Speaker B:As her entire response was damn good lighting guy.
Speaker B:Yeah, like that is.
Speaker B:Is.
Speaker B:I would say easily half of what makes cinematography good is understanding how the lighting makes things interesting.
Speaker B:That shouldn't be.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker A:I thought the most interesting set in the movie was the.
Speaker A:Her apartment.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:Because it spoke to.
Speaker A:It spoke to what her life was.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:You know, and did they say in.
Speaker B:The behind the scenes if that was a location or a set?
Speaker B:Because I was very curious.
Speaker A:I think it's a set.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:It's because I know like in Requiem for a Dream, the mom's apartment was definitely a set.
Speaker B:But it like it looked so lived in.
Speaker A:Yes.
Speaker B:Props to the production team if that was a set.
Speaker B:Because that looked like a hundred year old New York apartment.
Speaker C:Oh yeah.
Speaker C:I would have thought it was a set.
Speaker C:I definitely would have thought it was just somebody's apartment.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker C:I thought that woman just lived.
Speaker C:I thought that's where they lived.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Literally.
Speaker A:And it also.
Speaker B:So good.
Speaker A:It spoke to this idea that, too, that because it was so small and confined, she can't escape her mother while she's there.
Speaker A:Like.
Speaker A:And her mother was so suffocating.
Speaker C:Yeah, yeah, that's my question.
Speaker B:That goes back to my question is, was she really.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:Or was that part of the psychosis where she was a little overbearing, but the extra suffocation.
Speaker B:Was that part of the psychosis?
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:Was mom actually trying to save her from killing herself via anorexia, or was she a piece of shit mom?
Speaker C:I think she was a piece of shit mom.
Speaker C:Because I don't feel like you get to this.
Speaker C:Like, I've met ballerinas who were well balanced and could eat and they didn't hate themselves for making a tiny mistake.
Speaker C:And I am 37, and I struggle with the tiniest of mistakes, and I.
Speaker C:And it ruins a day.
Speaker C:It ruins this or that or whatever.
Speaker C:My whole life is just around this, like, thing.
Speaker C:And it happened from childhood of this.
Speaker C:Like, you can't.
Speaker C:You have to be perfect.
Speaker C:And I feel like her.
Speaker C:I just feel like her mom, like, maybe watered the feelings and made them grow.
Speaker C:But, you know, your mom pushes your buttons because she installed them.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker C:Like.
Speaker C:Yeah, there's that.
Speaker C:But, yeah.
Speaker C:I don't know.
Speaker C:It's just partially because it's so personal to me.
Speaker C:I'm like, yeah, her mom's a piece of.
Speaker B:Well, it's like, I definitely think her mom exacerbated it.
Speaker B:Exacerbated some things.
Speaker B:But that's where I'm also just like.
Speaker B:I don't know if all of it was as dramatic as she thought it was.
Speaker C:Yeah, it's a good point.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:I.
Speaker C:I'm very close to this movie.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker C:Very emotional.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker C:Tied in with me.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Definitely not as a.
Speaker A:Because I didn't do ballet, but as a creative.
Speaker A:Like, I understand this.
Speaker A:This torturous relationship between your creative endeavor.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:And.
Speaker A:And your personality and what you put into it.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker A:Although I don't feel as dedicated as.
Speaker A:As our.
Speaker A:As our protagonist here.
Speaker C:20 hours a day.
Speaker C:Jesus.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker C:I don't get it.
Speaker A:Rando.
Speaker C:Randos.
Speaker A:A lot of interesting stuff here.
Speaker A:So earlier you asked, was this based on a book?
Speaker A:They.
Speaker A:Actually.
Speaker A:His biggest inspiration for this film was Dostoevsky's the Double.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:Okay.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:And he was obsessed.
Speaker A:I love Dostoevsky.
Speaker A:And he was obsessed with this idea of the Doppelganger.
Speaker A:Like, that's where a lot of this came from.
Speaker B:The screenwriter or the.
Speaker B:The story writer?
Speaker A:Aronofsky.
Speaker B:Oh, okay.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Aronofsky said that and how he directed it.
Speaker A:So he took the script and he took influence from the double by Dostoevsky.
Speaker B:Okay.
Speaker A: cousin in an interview to the: Speaker C:I love the Red Shoes.
Speaker A:Okay, tell us about it.
Speaker C:I mean, it's about this woman who.
Speaker C:It's a ballerina.
Speaker C:She puts on enchanted red shoes, and it changes her.
Speaker C:Ballets are not very deep stories.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker C:They're very surface level.
Speaker C:It's kind of like when you make a movie about a video game.
Speaker C:It's kind of of like, you better add some plot in there.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker C:There's not a lot of plot, but there's entrance shoes.
Speaker C:It's a great movie.
Speaker B:Interesting.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:He said it's a spiritual cousin to that movie.
Speaker A:Does that make sense?
Speaker C:Totally.
Speaker B:Huh.
Speaker C:Wow.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:I love anything ballet related, though.
Speaker C:I've tried to watch all.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:I do want to know what inspired Andre Hines to write the story, though.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:Because, like, it's such a.
Speaker B:It's such a crazy thing to just pull out of your ass.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:As far as.
Speaker B:Just, like.
Speaker B:Because.
Speaker B:Because.
Speaker B:No, I did a little bit of research just because I wanted to know where it came from.
Speaker B:Nowhere.
Speaker B:Did it say what inspired him to write the story?
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker B:It just says he wrote the story.
Speaker C:Wow.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Well, I think.
Speaker A:I think for me, it's.
Speaker A:I don't know if this is what inspired him, but, you know, we're comedians.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:And we all have other art forms or writers, screenplay writers, whatever.
Speaker A:But there's not a lot of art forms like ballet, where it's.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Is it creative?
Speaker A:But it's also insanely militaristic.
Speaker A:Like.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:It's regimented.
Speaker A:Like, you.
Speaker A:Like, my wife did ballet for a long time, and.
Speaker A:And her mom was just like, I don't want you to do this more.
Speaker A:Do piano, because I just don't think you're gonna survive.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:Because it is.
Speaker C:What a good mom.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker C:Wow.
Speaker C:That's why she's not a comedian.
Speaker A:Yes.
Speaker B:That's.
Speaker A:My wife is a balanced person.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:She's the mother of four kids.
Speaker B:And you're the one who has a podcast.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:But, yeah, it's.
Speaker A:It's a different.
Speaker A:Yes.
Speaker A:Is it creative?
Speaker A:Is it beautiful?
Speaker A:Does it deserve all the respect that any other creative art form does?
Speaker B:Oh, yeah.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:But it's not like stand up.
Speaker B:No.
Speaker A:Like.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker C:I don't even know if I'd call it creative.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker C:To be totally honest.
Speaker A:Really?
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:Huh.
Speaker B:I would.
Speaker C:I mean, it gets to a place.
Speaker C:The choreography is creative.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:But like you can't remember though, the choreographer is.
Speaker B:Is the painter.
Speaker B:The ballerinas are the paintbrushes and paint.
Speaker C:See, that's why I wouldn't necessarily say that the ballerina is creative because it's like you are just executing and when you get something a little off, it is the end of the day.
Speaker C:Yeah, it is.
Speaker C:You get screamed at.
Speaker C:Where's the cane?
Speaker C:You know?
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker C:You're doing it 100 more times.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:So it's just.
Speaker C:But yes, you're right.
Speaker C:The creativity does come from the choreography.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker C:Which I would have much preferred to be a choreographer.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:This movie broke a lot of standards.
Speaker A:So in terms of being a horror.
Speaker A:Ish.
Speaker A:It's not.
Speaker A:They don't call it horror.
Speaker A:They say horror adjacent psychological thriller.
Speaker A:But it absolutely broke the mold.
Speaker A:It was 13 million dollar budget.
Speaker A:It made 329 million.
Speaker B:Hell yeah.
Speaker A:Worldwide.
Speaker B:Good for you, Darren.
Speaker A:For an astounding dark psychological thriller, it earned five Academy Award nominations including best picture.
Speaker A:It's the only horror.
Speaker A:It's one of six horror adjacent films to win a best picture nod.
Speaker A:Like.
Speaker A:And the other ones were the Exorcist and Get out were two other examples of that.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:And Natalie Portman won the Oscar and.
Speaker A:She got 28 trophies in total across all the.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:Various award ceremonies.
Speaker B:I think it won 98 awards across everything.
Speaker B:And was nominated for 278 awards.
Speaker C:And a baby.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker C:She also got pregnant during the filming of this.
Speaker A:Oh, wow.
Speaker B:Damn.
Speaker A:Wow.
Speaker C:Y' all didn't know that Baby Ballet was the choreographer.
Speaker A:Oh, yeah, she.
Speaker A:She met her.
Speaker A:She took the bath of Julia Roberts.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:She.
Speaker A:She married a cameraman.
Speaker A:And Ali Portman married the choreographer.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:Are they still married?
Speaker A:I don't know.
Speaker A:I don't keep up with that shit.
Speaker A:Hi.
Speaker A:I do a movie podcast and don't give a.
Speaker A:About celebrities.
Speaker A:Nice to meet you.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker A:Don't tell me about your politics or your green initiative.
Speaker A:I will throw a can onto the grass when I want to.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker A:Yes.
Speaker A:I'm just kidding.
Speaker B:Murder a kitten.
Speaker A:Yes.
Speaker A:And wear it skin.
Speaker C:I'm leaving.
Speaker A:No, I'm just kidding.
Speaker A:Is Harrison here?
Speaker A:I hope he didn't hear that.
Speaker B:Oh, he heard.
Speaker B:He's.
Speaker B:He's eyeing you from behind the.
Speaker A:He's always eyeing me.
Speaker A:Every time I hear.
Speaker A:I.
Speaker A:When I don't.
Speaker A:It's like a shark.
Speaker A:You know what they say about sharks?
Speaker A:When you're swimming in the ocean, you don't see a shark.
Speaker A:Three cu.
Speaker A:Yeah, that's how I feel about Harrison.
Speaker A:Yeah, I don't see Harrison.
Speaker A:Oh, he knows where you are.
Speaker A:He's using radar.
Speaker C:Yeah, he knows that.
Speaker C:I want to hug him.
Speaker A:Oh, he's sweet.
Speaker A:I don't even really love cats.
Speaker A:And I love Harrison.
Speaker A:Natalie Portman trained five to eight hours a day and got down to 98 pounds.
Speaker A:She lost 20 pounds for this role.
Speaker B:She's already teeny tiny.
Speaker A:She is.
Speaker B:Oh, my God.
Speaker A:She's a little.
Speaker A:She's a paperclip.
Speaker B:The whole movie.
Speaker B:McKenna and I were just like.
Speaker B:Like, what the.
Speaker B:She is so small.
Speaker C:Yeah, she looks it.
Speaker C:Man.
Speaker C:It brought back so much anorexia stuff for me because I was watching her being like, she's perfect.
Speaker A:Oh, no.
Speaker A:Oh, no.
Speaker C:Where's my red band aid thing?
Speaker C:I used to wear to remind myself to be anorexic.
Speaker C:Used to wear a red hair tie.
Speaker C:It's a whole thing.
Speaker A:Oh, yeah.
Speaker A:Don't eat.
Speaker C:It's a club.
Speaker C:Oh, this is for anorex.
Speaker C:This is pro.
Speaker C:What was it called?
Speaker C:I don't remember.
Speaker A:I feel bad having pulled you back into this world.
Speaker A:I didn't know I was doing that.
Speaker A:I'm so sorry.
Speaker C:It's called Pro Anna.
Speaker C:A N A.
Speaker C:Okay, so almost Mariana.
Speaker C:Pro Mariana.
Speaker A:Damn it.
Speaker A:I'm sorry.
Speaker A:I would.
Speaker A:If I would have known that.
Speaker A:We would have covered Weekend at Bernie's.
Speaker A:Yeah, but then you would be like Bernie's too.
Speaker A:Oh, that reminds me.
Speaker A:When I remote control the dead guy, I had a red band on my arm.
Speaker A:Remind me.
Speaker A:Remote control the dead guy.
Speaker B:I guess at some point we'll have to have James back to do 302.
Speaker A:Yes, yes.
Speaker A:The return.
Speaker C:That'll be great.
Speaker A:The return of the pecs.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A: pounds,: Speaker A:And she said she smoked a lot of cigarettes.
Speaker C:I bet.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:Oh, yeah.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Although, even though she didn't really do a good job dancing, apparently so.
Speaker C:Well, I.
Speaker C:You can.
Speaker C:There's one moment where they show her dancing, and you can just see.
Speaker B:She.
Speaker C:She was not a dancer for.
Speaker C:For her entire childhood.
Speaker C:Maybe she did different dance, maybe she jazz and stuff, but she didn't do ballet.
Speaker C:Natalie Portman's actually very good at, like, making you feel like she is a ballerina, but they definitely probably put her curious.
Speaker C:We gotta look this up.
Speaker B:Y' all keep talking.
Speaker C:I'm gonna figure it out because I remember Emily Blunt had a huge career bump because she was in that movie where she was a ballerina.
Speaker C:But I knew the guy that did the visual effects who put her face on a ballerina's body.
Speaker C:So I never believe that it's really them dancing.
Speaker A:There's a rando about that.
Speaker C:Yeah, here, too.
Speaker A:Yeah, there's some.
Speaker A:There's some similar controversy here.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:Okay.
Speaker B:She did not have any formal ballerina training before she was cast in Black Swan.
Speaker A:That's weird, because in the interview.
Speaker A:In the interview with Aronofsky on the special features, they talk about her.
Speaker A:She did ballet in, like, high school or something, and then she stopped.
Speaker B:Interesting.
Speaker A:Aronofsky met her when she was in college, and she was doing ballet in college.
Speaker A:I'm not saying it's formal training, but she did do ballet.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:And she stopped.
Speaker A:And then that's why Aronofsky wanted to work with her, because he knew she had a background, at least enough.
Speaker C:She looks like a ballerina.
Speaker A:She does.
Speaker A:She.
Speaker C:If I were to cast anybody as a ballerina, I would cast.
Speaker A:She looks like my friend.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Just like spitting image.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:According to the choreographer from Black Swan, Kunis never studied ballet.
Speaker A:No, it's Port.
Speaker A:Sorry.
Speaker A:Portman had the background, not Kunis.
Speaker A:Sorry, I was confused.
Speaker A:Sorry.
Speaker A:Because there's an interview between Aronoski and.
Speaker A:And Portman about her ballet background.
Speaker B:Yeah, see, that makes sense.
Speaker B:But, yeah.
Speaker B:Mila Kunis never did ballet before this.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:Which is crazy, because she is.
Speaker B:Is she Ukrainian or is she Russian?
Speaker B:I know she speaks Russian, but I don't know.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:I just know she speaks.
Speaker A:Meg.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Shut up, Meg.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:This was my favorite rando.
Speaker A:So obviously there's a scene where this happens, and I don't know if this is that scene, but there was a scene where Natalie Portman was dropped by Vincent Cassel and dislocated a rib for real.
Speaker A:So the scene of them working her where she's like, your diaphragm is whatever.
Speaker A:That's actually the sports therapist.
Speaker A:They were actually working on Natalie Portman.
Speaker A:So that's what that scene is.
Speaker A:So that scene, even though it made it to the final cut, that was them working on her actual rib that was out of place.
Speaker C:Oh, my God.
Speaker C:That is my biggest fear.
Speaker C:I was on a podcast with my friend Nicole a few weeks ago, and she was like, what's your biggest fear?
Speaker C:I was like, my ribs popping out of place.
Speaker B:Yep.
Speaker C:This is real.
Speaker C:That is so scary.
Speaker A:I've had a dislocated rib and.
Speaker A:But that's just because I was fat and couldn't handle it.
Speaker A:I had the opposite problem.
Speaker A:And they were like, I can't find the rib.
Speaker A:It'll heal.
Speaker A:You know, you don't need a therapist.
Speaker A:You just need to drop some weight.
Speaker A:Oh, God, the Movie wars fans are right.
Speaker B:So fat.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Just stop being alarm.
Speaker A:You should have absorbed the compact.
Speaker A:What is your.
Speaker A:The.
Speaker A:The contact.
Speaker A:What's your problem?
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Fuckers.
Speaker C:That's funny.
Speaker C:Oh, I love that they included that, though.
Speaker C:That's cool.
Speaker A:Yeah, that was a hard scene to watch.
Speaker C:Aaron Off.
Speaker A:They're like, oh, I'm just going to rub your diaphragm.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker C:That's the most horrific.
Speaker C:I hate when they have to do that.
Speaker A:Is that a thing?
Speaker A:Like, they're actually like, yeah, well, I.
Speaker C:Mean, that's also just something in, like, women's.
Speaker C:You know, when you go to the obgyn, they just have to make sure there's no growths happening in your body.
Speaker B:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker C:And I love how they're like.
Speaker C:It's like feeling around in a mattress.
Speaker C:I'm like, that makes me feel better.
Speaker A:I feel like a woman.
Speaker C:I'm not a mattress.
Speaker C:You call me fat Us.
Speaker B:They just stick their finger up our ass.
Speaker B:And apparently that wasn't even necessary.
Speaker A:You know how you refer to me as old guy, Right?
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:My.
Speaker A:I had a wellness exam this week and she said it's not time, but we're getting there.
Speaker A:We're getting there.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker C:You can get excited about it.
Speaker A:I turned 38 this month and they're giving me a warning.
Speaker B:Apparently.
Speaker B:I just read recently.
Speaker B:Apparently, the whole finger in the ass thing, not necessary.
Speaker A:It actually makes it worse.
Speaker A:It actually increases your chances.
Speaker B:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker C:Love that.
Speaker C:I'm a lady.
Speaker B:Take that, Peggers.
Speaker A:I love being alive.
Speaker A:Not really.
Speaker A:This is dog shit, this whole existence.
Speaker A:Bring the fucking asteroid.
Speaker A:I'm sorry, did I say something?
Speaker A:Sorry, I sneezed.
Speaker B:Don't give away our movie.
Speaker A:I blacked out.
Speaker A:Oh, yeah, that's true.
Speaker B:We're writing a movie together.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Bringing cool.
Speaker C:Oh, can't wait.
Speaker C:Then that'll just be me doing a Movie wars without y' all with other people.
Speaker A:Hi.
Speaker A:Midsummer Version three.
Speaker C:Randos.
Speaker A:Rand.
Speaker A:Randos.
Speaker A:Last.
Speaker A:Rando.
Speaker A:Speaking of that.
Speaker A:So going back to that controversy, first of all, there's a whole tidbit that I read about mirrors.
Speaker A:There's only one scene.
Speaker A:There's a mirror in every scene of the movie, except for the very last one, because that's where you're supposed to believe that she fully has.
Speaker A:Has.
Speaker B:What about the scene where she's talking to Winona Rider outside.
Speaker A:That's a good question.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:There wasn't a mirror in that one.
Speaker A:There wasn't.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker A:So it just says cinematographer Matthew Libitic Libatique.
Speaker A:That's a weird name.
Speaker A:Included a reflection or a mirror or reflection or mirror.
Speaker A:So if it wasn't a mirror, then a reflection in every single shot of Black Swan until the final sequence when Nina performs without any sense of self.
Speaker B:Incredible.
Speaker C:That is so tedious.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker C:Wow.
Speaker A:So I guess the reflection could be water.
Speaker A:It could be shiny surface.
Speaker C:Okay.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:Oh, I wish I'd known that before I watched it.
Speaker A:I know.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker C:I don't know.
Speaker A:That's the thing about doing this podcast, and I always, like, I need to go back and watch it just to see if I pick up on that.
Speaker B:And at the same time, I'm like, I don't want to put myself through that again.
Speaker A:I know.
Speaker B:Not today.
Speaker A:I won't be watching this one again.
Speaker A:I'm just gonna say that doesn't mean I didn't respect or like it.
Speaker A:I just.
Speaker A:I actually wanted to watch Requiem for a Dream again, as torturous as it was.
Speaker C:Oh, man.
Speaker B:Again, it's one of those.
Speaker B:I'll re.
Speaker B:I'll.
Speaker B:I'll come back every few years, but not even every year.
Speaker B:Not even every couple year.
Speaker B:Every.
Speaker B:Every few years.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:It's a lot.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker C:That one hit too hard.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:Second part of this rando, the.
Speaker A:You talked about the face grafting of.
Speaker A:What was her name?
Speaker A:Blunt.
Speaker C:Oh, Emily Blunt.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker A:So the.
Speaker A:There was all this marketing and discussion about how Natalie Portman did all this ballet for this movie, and she practiced five hours, five to eight hours a day.
Speaker A:But there was an American ballet soloist named Sarah Lane who served as Portman's dance double, and she claims that she did, like, 98.
Speaker A:She says 95% of the full body work is her.
Speaker A:And so there was this argument about who did what.
Speaker A:Portman said that she did 80% of it.
Speaker A:And so whether or not it actually matters is interesting.
Speaker A:But this.
Speaker A:This ballerina felt a little slighted.
Speaker B:The real question is what ended up on screen.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:Because I'm sure they both did them.
Speaker B:I'm sure they both did the majority of it, but you never know what's going to get cut on the screen.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:Well, so I was trying to pay attention to that because I was very interested in if Natalie Portman did the ballet or not.
Speaker C:And whenever Natalie Portman is doing it, it's not a full body shot, and it's a lot of arms, which is a little bit easier.
Speaker C:The feet is what I would assume she would have a lot more trouble with, because that's ingrained from when you're three years old, you have turnout or you don't.
Speaker C:There is no.
Speaker C:You cannot fix it.
Speaker B:It.
Speaker C:So I bet you that the full body shots were the real ballerina or the.
Speaker C:The professional ballerina, but there's not a lot of it.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker C:There's really only a couple of moments where it's full body and.
Speaker C:And a lot of it.
Speaker C:You can see Natalie Portman's face.
Speaker C:So I.
Speaker C:I.
Speaker C:Now that I'm thinking about it, I don't know if Darren Aronofsky would even superimpose her face on there.
Speaker C:I think he would do it in a different way.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker C:I don't think he likes.
Speaker A:No, he wouldn't do that.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:He's more like.
Speaker B: Especially back in: Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:It's a lot of money, too.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker C:Visual effects.
Speaker A:He said Natalie did about 80 of dancing on screen is what she said.
Speaker A:Mila Kunis said she public or publicly defended Portman's work ethic.
Speaker A:In the end, Lane conceded that she had signed a contract without guaranteed credit, and the studio noted that Portman had only openly credited her ballet doubles in interviews.
Speaker A:I'm just reading.
Speaker A:I don't usually read on screen, but it's very dense.
Speaker A:The dense double drama only added to the mystique of how much of Nina's perfection was Natalie's versus movie magic.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:I mean.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:You sign a contract like, you.
Speaker B:You're gonna accept she wasn't even credited as a b.
Speaker B:As the ballet double in the credits.
Speaker C:Wow.
Speaker B:That does.
Speaker A:That's where she got pissed.
Speaker B:I mean, you signed the contract.
Speaker B:You should have read it better.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker C:But also, the magic of the movie comes from Natalie Portman.
Speaker C:So, like, I know that the ballerina.
Speaker C:That is very difficult and amazing that she can do that.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker C:And I'm.
Speaker C:I wish I could do that.
Speaker C:I'm sure Natalie Portman wishes, too.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:But, like, all the difficult scenes were Natalie Portman.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker C:Oh, do you want to pull your fingers?
Speaker A:Well, this is an interesting thing that I didn't really learn until doing this podcast, is that there are schools of thought, and you actually educated me on some of this.
Speaker A:It's like, we.
Speaker A:I can't remember what episode we did, but, like, there are people that don't like that.
Speaker A:Tom Cruise does all of his own stunts.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Because it's like, you don't.
Speaker A:Because they're taking work from stuntmen.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker C:Well, also, what is the insurance policy on that?
Speaker C:I'm sure he has his own $62 trillion.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:But I think it's the mystique of Tom Cruise.
Speaker A:I actually dig it.
Speaker A:But, I mean, Keanu Reeves also does a lot of his own, but, you.
Speaker B:Know, Willem Dafoe did his own stunts in the new Spider man that he was in.
Speaker A:Really?
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:Wow.
Speaker A:He's older.
Speaker B:No.
Speaker B:He purposefully was like, no, I'm going to do as many of the stunts as I possibly.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker C:Well, that's cool.
Speaker C:It's cool.
Speaker C:I just assume, like, if I were working on the set, I'd be like, no, please get the guy that does this all day every day and doesn't even have to think about anything else to get it done, because he's easier to work with than Tom Cruise.
Speaker B:I feel like it depends on what.
Speaker B:What kind of stunt you're doing.
Speaker B:If it's like Florence Pugh in the new Thunderbolts movie, she actually jumped off the second tallest building in the world.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Like, I.
Speaker B:Fuck.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:I would want to do that if I was an actor.
Speaker B:Why the fuck am I going to give it to someone else?
Speaker B:There was an episode of mythbusters where they were trying to do the clip from Temple of Doom where Indiana Jones falls through all of the awnings.
Speaker B:And Adam Savage was so excited to do it.
Speaker B:And then insurance called and said, we're not going to let you do it.
Speaker B:We have to give it to one of the B guys.
Speaker B:And he was furious.
Speaker C:Well, yeah, because that's my.
Speaker B:Who wouldn't want to do that?
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:Who wouldn't want to be the guy who gets to fall and be like, I did that?
Speaker C:I mean, I feel like a lot of people wouldn't want to do it, but I do.
Speaker B:I would.
Speaker B:Absolutely, I would.
Speaker A:Would you do it?
Speaker A:No.
Speaker C:Okay.
Speaker C:See, there's one.
Speaker A:I'm a pansy.
Speaker A:I'm not doing.
Speaker C:Man, I love jumping off.
Speaker B:And that's why you get called fat in.
Speaker B:In the comments.
Speaker A:That's right.
Speaker C:I be.
Speaker C:I was.
Speaker C:I was thinking about being a BASE jumper after I went skydiving.
Speaker B:Oh, damn.
Speaker C:I just need to go skydiving 200 more times, and then I can become a base jumper.
Speaker B:Nice.
Speaker C:What were we talking about?
Speaker A:Shall we dance the night away?
Speaker B:Let's do it.
Speaker A:Shall we diverge into our doppelganger selves?
Speaker B:Hell, yeah.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:So we rip skin off when we're trying to peel our fingernail back.
Speaker B:I think we should fuse our toes together.
Speaker A:Love your mothers.
Speaker C:That would make Dancing so easy, too.
Speaker C:Oh, my God.
Speaker A:Let's war.
Speaker A:By the way.
Speaker A:Do they really do that?
Speaker A:Do they cut the cork inside out of the.
Speaker A:The shoes?
Speaker C:That's my favorite scene in the whole movie.
Speaker A:Why does she do that?
Speaker C:Well, they all have different things that they do.
Speaker C:Some people took the insides out.
Speaker C:Some people sew the top, the front part together so it's tighter.
Speaker C:Some people burn parts of it.
Speaker C:You put it in water.
Speaker C:Rosin.
Speaker C:Like, everybody's different.
Speaker B:Was that glass she was stepping on in that box or was that sand?
Speaker C:It's rosin.
Speaker A:It's like.
Speaker C:It's what you use for softball and.
Speaker B:Baseball and, like, violin bows and, like, that kind of stuff.
Speaker B:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker C:It's, like, sticky.
Speaker C:It makes you stick to the ground.
Speaker C:Because if you're performing, if you're in the studio, it's less likely you're gonna slip.
Speaker C:But then when you're on, like, the stage, it's so slippery.
Speaker B:Oh, absolutely.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:I knew.
Speaker B:I knew what the purpose was, but I didn't know what she was stepping in, so that makes more sense.
Speaker A:It's a delicate dance.
Speaker A:We weave or whatever.
Speaker B:What the is wrong with you, dude?
Speaker A:That's.
Speaker C:It is.
Speaker C:I agree.
Speaker B:You just combined, like, three elegant dance.
Speaker A:What's wrong with me?
Speaker A:Do you have three hours?
Speaker A:Do you have a.
Speaker A:You clear your schedules.
Speaker A:Ladies and gentlemen, top bill, cast.
Speaker A:Here we go.
Speaker A:Natalie Portman, Mila Kunis, and Vincent Cell.
Speaker B:I mean, yeah, it.
Speaker B:Not a single moment in this movie did I.
Speaker B:Did I not think that they were doing what they were doing.
Speaker B:Again, same as what we'll talk about next week.
Speaker B:Midsommar.
Speaker B:It very much feels just regular conversation.
Speaker B:Like every single one of them.
Speaker B:It doesn't.
Speaker B:I didn't think they were acting.
Speaker B:It was just like they're.
Speaker B:They're talking, they're doing their thing.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:They all did such a good job, by the way.
Speaker A:Yes.
Speaker A:Is White Swan.
Speaker A:No, is Black Swan fair?
Speaker B:White Swan.
Speaker B:It's so good.
Speaker B:I was.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:I was about to ask.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Is that a good one?
Speaker A:White Swan.
Speaker A:Black.
Speaker C:Definitely.
Speaker A:Cool.
Speaker A:So you're a white.
Speaker A:You're a white swan.
Speaker C:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker C:White Swan on this one, too.
Speaker C:Oh, my God.
Speaker C:I can't imagine a better cast, honestly.
Speaker C:Even though Mila Kunis was not very ballet, she's perfect for the role.
Speaker B:How do you think it would have gone if they had done what Star wars did and put Keira Knightley as the opposite?
Speaker C:Man, that could have been cool, too.
Speaker C:You know, I just feel like they're good actresses, and any good actress could have probably Put their own spin on it.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker C:But I feel like Mila Kunis is like.
Speaker C:She has this like, weird free spirit.
Speaker C:Like they cast her because she's like the hot, dark.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker C:Energy.
Speaker B:She's like Zooey Deschanel without the quirkiness.
Speaker C:Yeah, exactly.
Speaker C:So it's more.
Speaker C:I feel like Keira Knightley, honestly, would have been a little bit more like Natalie Portman too.
Speaker C:She could have been Natalie Portman's character.
Speaker C:Probably.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker C:But.
Speaker C:Yeah, I just.
Speaker C:Oh, all.
Speaker C:All the way with Vincent Castle.
Speaker C:What else has he been in?
Speaker A:Oh, he's been in a lot.
Speaker A:Man, he's got a face that you don't forget.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:But you also can't place it.
Speaker A:I wrote.
Speaker C:I wrote down during the movie.
Speaker C:I was like, is he hot or just foreign?
Speaker A:Yeah, he's.
Speaker A:He's French.
Speaker A:That's why he's.
Speaker A:He's.
Speaker A:He's.
Speaker C:Yeah, he's just.
Speaker A:He was in Tekken 8.
Speaker C:He's a.
Speaker C:He's a good looking guy.
Speaker C:And it's more of like how he acts in the movie that's very, like, commanding and like, you know, hot in the way it's supposed to be.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker C:But they're also.
Speaker B:Love the fact that he only wore black, white, and gray.
Speaker B:He never work, and all of his office and his apartment were only black and white.
Speaker A:Almost everything he's done is.
Speaker A:Is European.
Speaker C:Oh, yeah.
Speaker C:See, he's just born, but.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:And then they had Natalie Portman in, like, light pink the whole time.
Speaker C:And like, Mila's always in black and.
Speaker B:Until she got rid of her teddy bears.
Speaker B:That's when her color palette started changing.
Speaker C:Love it.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker C:Teddy.
Speaker C:That was such a Catwoman move, by the way.
Speaker C:Do you remember when Catwoman did that?
Speaker C:Oh, I cried so hard.
Speaker C:She shoved all her stuffed animals into the disposal and.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:This is a skosh white swan for me.
Speaker A:Or what's.
Speaker A:What's below a squeak.
Speaker A:I'm actually.
Speaker A:It's a squeak.
Speaker C:Okay.
Speaker A:Remember, squeaks go ton.
Speaker A:Ton.
Speaker B:I love this.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:You'll find out all about that next week.
Speaker A:It's not a real thing.
Speaker A:It's just we.
Speaker A:It's literally.
Speaker B:It is a real thing.
Speaker A:It's a binary system, but it's our thing.
Speaker A:I loved.
Speaker A:I think Natalie Portman was deserving of the accolades.
Speaker A:Incredible.
Speaker A:Just not the.
Speaker A:Not only the performance, but the.
Speaker A:The ballet itself.
Speaker A:Whatever amount of it was real was enough for me.
Speaker A:I thought it was great.
Speaker A:Vincent Cassel was amazing.
Speaker A:I.
Speaker A:Even for a guy that I don't really know a lot of his other work he was.
Speaker A:I hated him so much, but that was the point.
Speaker A:I literally hated him so much.
Speaker A:But he was doing his job.
Speaker A:Yeah, he did that very well.
Speaker A:I don't, I never really.
Speaker A:My, the reason it's a squeak is I never dug Mila Kunis that much.
Speaker A:I just don't think, I think there was a better choice.
Speaker A:I can't tell you who that was, but I do think there was a little bit of a better choice out there.
Speaker B:But see, with her being the opposite of Natalie Portman, I feel like it worked.
Speaker A:See, I don't, I don't feel like she was opposite enough.
Speaker A:I, I, I think there was just someone.
Speaker A:There had to be someone else out there that was a little more.
Speaker A:I, I just never.
Speaker A:And you know, we talked about this with Tom Cruise.
Speaker A:I don't remember what brought it up, but we talked about, like, the.
Speaker A:It's hard to overlook someone's off stage mystique.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:I just, it's hard for me to shake the, my comedic interpretation of who she is.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker A:And I just kept waiting for her to crack jokes.
Speaker A:She's very funny.
Speaker A:I think she's very gifted.
Speaker B:Oh, yeah.
Speaker B:But she's great in that 70s show.
Speaker B:Great in Family Guy.
Speaker A:Oh, yeah, yeah.
Speaker A:And what is it for getting Sarah Marshall.
Speaker A:Yeah, she's good in that.
Speaker B:Yep.
Speaker A:But I just, it's not that I don't, I don't like her.
Speaker A:I just, for some reason, I just, I never signed on fully to her.
Speaker A:But, but everyone else's performances are so good.
Speaker A:And I think, I think watching this again, Portman, I, it reconfirmed that she deserves every, every ounce of accolades.
Speaker A:So it's a squeak, but we go.
Speaker B:All right.
Speaker A:We are White Swanning.
Speaker A:We are.
Speaker A:We are on our way.
Speaker A:I don't know, though, this, the story is so twisty and turny, it's hard to say what's good and bad.
Speaker A:Is it good to be the White Swan?
Speaker A:I don't know.
Speaker C:She seems nuts.
Speaker C:She seems insane.
Speaker A:Supporting cast.
Speaker A:Oh, man.
Speaker A:Wynonna Ryder.
Speaker A:Barbara Hershey is the mom.
Speaker A:Oh, my God.
Speaker A:Benjamin Millipede as David.
Speaker B:What a name.
Speaker A:I know.
Speaker A:He's the guy that drops her.
Speaker A:And then we just got a bunch of ballerinas here.
Speaker A:I'm trying to see if there's another.
Speaker A:Yeah, just not to, not to.
Speaker A:On the ballerinas, but just a bunch of ballerinas.
Speaker B:This is going to be a squeak under Black Swan.
Speaker B:Oh.
Speaker B:Because as good as the mother was and as great as Winona Ryder was, everyone else just kind of was there like, they were fine.
Speaker B:But.
Speaker B:Yeah, not.
Speaker B:Not.
Speaker B:And not enough to make me be like, no, this.
Speaker B:This cast was stacked.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:They had five very special people.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:In the main and supporting cast.
Speaker B:Everyone else was just there.
Speaker B:So, yeah, it's.
Speaker B:It's a black swan for me.
Speaker B:But just barely.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker C:I'm gonna agree with you.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker C:Definitely.
Speaker C:Just barely.
Speaker B:It's.
Speaker A:It.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:Winona and the mom are awesome.
Speaker C:And then everyone else.
Speaker C:I forgot that they were in the movie.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker C:I forgot there was.
Speaker B:I didn't even know the guy who dropped her had a name.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:I always was like, someone didn't fuck that guy because he dropped her.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:And then he, like, blamed her.
Speaker A:What the fuck?
Speaker A:He's like, I'm going through a splitting of personalities.
Speaker A:Give me a break.
Speaker C:I love when she was like, he dropped me.
Speaker B:It wasn't my fault.
Speaker C:It wasn't my fault.
Speaker C:That was sweet.
Speaker C:So, ballerina.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker C:My dad don't take accountability.
Speaker A:That was a funny point you just made, because one thing.
Speaker A:I'm not gonna say I didn't like it in the movie, but maybe it's just discomfort, but her constant seeking of his approval.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker A:Was what.
Speaker A:I hated that.
Speaker B:Like, I mean, obviously that stems from her relationship with her mom.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:That.
Speaker B:That whoever the authority figure is, she wants their approval.
Speaker B:She's been in the ballet company for four years.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:It clearly has continuously been passed over, so.
Speaker B:No, I mean, it makes sense.
Speaker A:It does make sense.
Speaker A:It was just hard to watch because he's just such a bad dude.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker C:And she's getting old for a ballerina.
Speaker A:That's true.
Speaker C:28 is very old.
Speaker B:Okay, so she was 28.
Speaker C:Or she.
Speaker C:I think that she was, because I.
Speaker B:Thought she was supposed to be younger.
Speaker C:Maybe she was supposed to be younger.
Speaker C:I thought she was.
Speaker C:I thought at some point they said that she was 20.
Speaker A:At some point they say how old Wynonna Rider is.
Speaker A:And that's.
Speaker A:That's the point.
Speaker C:That's it.
Speaker A:That's like 30.
Speaker B:She was.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker C:They were like, she's so old.
Speaker C:She's 30.
Speaker B:I thought she was, like, 22.
Speaker B:She probably to have been in the company for four years.
Speaker B:I feel like she joined at 18, 19.
Speaker B:So maybe she's 22, 23.
Speaker C:That makes more sense.
Speaker B:That was my assumption.
Speaker C:But Winona's the old one.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker C:Since none of them are old.
Speaker B:God, I'm ancient now.
Speaker C:I know.
Speaker C:We're also old.
Speaker B:This.
Speaker B:This fucker's dead, basically.
Speaker C:Thank God we're not ballerinas.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker C:That's the Thing about dance.
Speaker C:I wanted to become a professional dancer, and then I was.
Speaker C:And then I thought about it really, and I was like, do I really just want to be poor until I'm 30 and then not have a career?
Speaker B:Career, yeah.
Speaker A:Or anorexic and.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:Well, at least if you're poor, you don't need to buy any food.
Speaker A:That's true.
Speaker A:There is a.
Speaker A:Yeah, I guess.
Speaker A:Oh, my God.
Speaker A:I'm not.
Speaker C:Not now.
Speaker A:I'm not going to espouse the benefits of anorexia.
Speaker C:They're better now.
Speaker C:I don't want to say that all ballerinas are anorexic, because they are not.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker C:Misty Copeland is not anorexic.
Speaker A:Some of the.
Speaker A:That this movie.
Speaker A:This movie's crossing me up from a socioeconomic level here, Barb.
Speaker A:Barbara Hershey as the mother.
Speaker A:I got Carrie vibes.
Speaker B:Yeah, that's exactly what I said.
Speaker A:To me, I got major.
Speaker B:Totally just religious versus failure.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:Like, those are the only difference.
Speaker B:But the.
Speaker B:The.
Speaker B:The vibe is 100 the same.
Speaker A:I mean, you.
Speaker A:I think in terms of evil Mother Carrie is like the standard in a lot of ways.
Speaker B:Absolutely.
Speaker A:Barbara brought it.
Speaker A:Fantastic.
Speaker A:But I also go Black Swan here.
Speaker A:I.
Speaker A:I love Wynonna Rider triumphant return.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:She.
Speaker A:She kind of is more psychotic in her performance than Portman ever is.
Speaker A:I mean, some.
Speaker A:When she starts stabbing her face and the things she says, oh, my God, she.
Speaker A:She hits new levels.
Speaker A:And that is a little bit of a problem, honestly.
Speaker A:That for me, it was kind of like, well, well, I'm supposed to see this transformation in Portman, but she never even really matches Wiona Riders intensity.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:Well, I mean, remember w.
Speaker B:Riders at the end of her career.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:And.
Speaker B:And at 30 is being told she's an old woman.
Speaker B:So, I mean, there you can see the process of.
Speaker B:Of, oh, she'll be there in a few years.
Speaker A:Are we to believe that?
Speaker A:Because there.
Speaker A:There is an insinuation when she visits her in the hospital that.
Speaker A:That maybe Wynona Ryder has gone through this transformation already and now she's like the locust shell of that.
Speaker A:Is that something.
Speaker A:I thought about that.
Speaker B:No, that makes sense.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Because, like, maybe she's.
Speaker A:The way she is is because she's been.
Speaker A:She's been completely emotionally just crying crushed by this process of transformation that.
Speaker B:I mean, even her at the.
Speaker B:At the.
Speaker B:The before she tries to kill herself, she's seeking the approval of.
Speaker B:Of the douchebags.
Speaker A:I mean, it's.
Speaker B:No, definitely.
Speaker B:I think that's a very accurate way to describe It.
Speaker A:Yeah, that's the vibe I got.
Speaker A:But.
Speaker A:So those are two is just incredible performances.
Speaker A:Supporting, like, supporting actress worthy to me.
Speaker B:Absolutely.
Speaker A:Everything else, though, I.
Speaker A:One thing I didn't like, and this is kind of out of character for Aronofsky because I do think he directs actors very well.
Speaker A:The.
Speaker A:All of the ballerinas, like, were Valley Girl to me.
Speaker B:Yeah, I think they were very California, not New York.
Speaker A:Yeah, I didn't really understand that.
Speaker A:Like, and I know there is some of that, like, we're ever going to get a group of dancers together, there's going to be some of that competition.
Speaker A:But there was just way, like, every time they went to them, I'm like, I just feel like I was watching Clueless in some ways.
Speaker B:Mean Girls.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:And I didn't understand that choice.
Speaker B:Yeah, it.
Speaker B:It.
Speaker B:It was definitely very interesting.
Speaker B:I.
Speaker B:We, again, we kind of said the same thing last night when we were watching.
Speaker B:It was like, yeah, it's weird.
Speaker B:Mean Girls situation.
Speaker A:Yes.
Speaker B:I don't know it well, while I get the intention behind it, I agree with you.
Speaker B:I don't think it was executed very well.
Speaker A:Yeah, you're just looking.
Speaker A:And you.
Speaker A:We kind of, you know, we've said this with a few, like, just something a little different, just something to pop up because it really.
Speaker A:There really are five actors and actresses here, but could have used just a little bit of.
Speaker A:Of just the dynamic from that supporting cast.
Speaker B:Absolutely.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker A:And all right, it's tied right now.
Speaker A:So the swan, the wings are emerging here.
Speaker B:We're in the gray zone.
Speaker A:We are in the gray zone.
Speaker A:I love a good tie.
Speaker A:Writers Mark Heyman, Andre Hines and John J.
Speaker A:McLaughlin.
Speaker B:Yeah, I think they did an insanely good job.
Speaker B:Like, I need to read the script.
Speaker B:It's in my Amazon wish list right now, and I should buy it at some point.
Speaker B:But yeah, it.
Speaker B:It is so well thought out.
Speaker B:Every little detail, which obviously some of that's going to come from.
Speaker B:From Darren Aronofsky.
Speaker B:But there's enough subtext in the script itself that.
Speaker B:Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker B:They did a great job.
Speaker B:To pull this type of story completely originally out of your own brain, I think is very impressive.
Speaker B:So, yeah, it's a white swan for me.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker C:I'm going white swan as well.
Speaker C:Yeah, Yeah.
Speaker A:I don't know.
Speaker C:Sometimes I feel like I agree with you and I'm like, ditto, ditto.
Speaker B:Hey, nothing wrong with that.
Speaker A:That's okay.
Speaker B:Sometimes I'm just right.
Speaker C:No, I feel like you're always right.
Speaker C:Don't say that.
Speaker C:You're Always.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker C:It's great.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Especially about Zack Snyder.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:I don't think I would.
Speaker C:I don't think I would change anything about it, honestly.
Speaker C:I feel like it was just exactly what it needed to be.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:The twist is still a twist while.
Speaker B:While you're rewatching it, like.
Speaker B:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker C:No, it is watching a progression of somebody just losing their mind so perfectly.
Speaker C:I don't think I could have changed it.
Speaker C:I don't think I could edit it.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:I.
Speaker A:I'm a squeak over on the writing.
Speaker A:This was a tough category for me.
Speaker A:I think there are areas where it's, like, exceptional.
Speaker A:I think the way Natalie Portman's characters created and.
Speaker A:And the way they developed her through the writing was incredible.
Speaker A:They expressed a lot with not a lot of dialogue.
Speaker A:She doesn't actually think about it.
Speaker A:She doesn't actually say a lot.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker A:And I think Wona Rider's character adds a really interesting kind of counter to that.
Speaker A:But again, some of the.
Speaker A:Some of the choices with the supporting cast that we talked about that also exist on the page.
Speaker A:I didn't love some of those choices.
Speaker A:I didn't.
Speaker A:I don't feel like.
Speaker A:I do feel like they got away with a few things.
Speaker A:I just think even though it's supposed to be an ambiguous movie, I think they also got away with lack of clarity in some areas.
Speaker A:And I.
Speaker A:Some.
Speaker A:I do love ambiguous, like, ambiguous endings, ambiguous movies.
Speaker A:Like, I dig that.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:But there were areas here where I'm like.
Speaker A:Like, best film worthy.
Speaker A:No, I.
Speaker A:I do.
Speaker A:I just think it was a little cloudy in areas, but I still go Scotia.
Speaker A:Because overall, like, where it was exceptional, it was phenomenal.
Speaker A:But I do think.
Speaker A:And I've seen Aronofsky be more complete in other films.
Speaker A:Like, I do think Requiem for a Dream, I'm just like, holy shit.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:But at the same time, there's not supposed to be anything ambiguous about Requiem for a Dream.
Speaker A:True.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:This.
Speaker B:This is truly a question of what is real and what isn't.
Speaker A:Requiem is.
Speaker A:Drugs are bad.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Drugs will get your arm cut off and make you anal fuck another girl.
Speaker B:Drug.
Speaker A:Drugs are bad.
Speaker C:Drugs are bad.
Speaker A:All right.
Speaker A:Two to one.
Speaker A:Oh, God.
Speaker A:Oh, my God.
Speaker A:It doesn't help.
Speaker A:They cast what's his face to be the guy that hires him.
Speaker C:Oh, that guy's the perfect.
Speaker B:I saw a picture of two urinals on the opposite wall, but nothing in between them.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:I think I texted this to you because I put the ass to ass picture.
Speaker B:Just the guy.
Speaker B:Ass to ass.
Speaker A:That scene still haunts me to this day.
Speaker C:I know.
Speaker B:So horrible movie just haunts me.
Speaker C:I mean, it's the reason I didn't do drugs for a very long time.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker C:And then now I just do.
Speaker C:Not those drugs.
Speaker B:Not heroin.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker A:Not if you want to completely stop and follow it up with Transpotting.
Speaker A:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker A:Two to one.
Speaker A:Here we go.
Speaker A:This would be directing Darren Aronofsky.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Fucking incredible.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:White Swan all the way.
Speaker B:Just, again, I want to read the script so I can see how much subtext is in there, because his vision clearly added just so many other layers.
Speaker B:Like, the fact that he directed it was just like, okay, this guy's office at home, nothing but black and white.
Speaker B:But, like, we have so much color in her apartment and.
Speaker B:And in the clothes that she wears.
Speaker B:Like.
Speaker B:And even.
Speaker B:Even the couple of scenes where they're outside the theater, like.
Speaker B:Like, you.
Speaker B:There's so much color, but then as soon as you're back into the world of ballet, it's all black and white.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:Like, it's just h.
Speaker B:There's so much that he did, directing the actors, directing the visuals of it.
Speaker B:How.
Speaker B:Like, talking with Clint Mansell and how he did the.
Speaker B:The score, like, all of it just.
Speaker B:It's so good.
Speaker B:I can't say this is his best film or even favorite of mine, but it is exceptional.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:I'm going White Swan as well.
Speaker C:Amazing.
Speaker C:I.
Speaker C:I loved it.
Speaker C:I.
Speaker C:I think his vision just came through really well.
Speaker C:I feel like the way the movie is shot is how you feel while you're watching.
Speaker C:It feels like you're in a washing machine almost.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:That handheld style of it definitely does that.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:It really adds to it.
Speaker C:And I.
Speaker C:And you.
Speaker C:What's funny is with the.
Speaker C:The color scheme you mentioned.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker C:For every time I've been in, like, a ballet studio or, like, around ballet at all, it is so stark.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker C:And cold.
Speaker C:And there's nothing cuddly about the place, and there's no stuff anywhere.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker C:And I love the juxtaposition where she goes back home, and it's just like, whoa.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Dark green on the wall, pink in her clothes.
Speaker C:So I realized I painted my room, my, like, work room at my house, dark green.
Speaker C:And now I realize my.
Speaker C:Like, maybe it was because of this, but.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:White Swan all the way.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:Love it.
Speaker C:But it's not my favorite movie by him.
Speaker C:That would be Mother.
Speaker C:Mother is my favorite movie.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Same here.
Speaker A:I mean, not a Mother, but this isn't my favorite.
Speaker A:I go White Swan here, too.
Speaker A:I mean, yeah, I do see some flaws with some of the writing and some of the.
Speaker A:The development of the characters, but overall.
Speaker A:And the reason I.
Speaker A:To me to say this feels like a Radiohead music video is a compliment.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:Because the reason later Radiohead is so interesting because there's a weird fluidity to their new age music that they write.
Speaker A:And this movie had.
Speaker A:Was like a visual version of that to me.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:There's a weird fluidity to this movie where even though I see some of these weird kind of drop offs in the plot or.
Speaker A:Or maybe the character development, I'm being like, moved through and it feels like, you know what they call it?
Speaker A:Rolling.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:I don't.
Speaker A:I don't do drugs, but I feel like I'm rolling.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:Watching this movie, I'm just kind of like, I can't.
Speaker A:Like, there were times where I was like, when was the last time I blinked?
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Like legit.
Speaker A:It's a visual feast.
Speaker A:Some of the.
Speaker A:Some of the choices here are just.
Speaker A:Are just gorgeous.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:So I.
Speaker A:I totally.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:I think he gets.
Speaker A:Should get a lot of accolades here.
Speaker A:So it's a.
Speaker A:It's a white swan.
Speaker A:Three to one.
Speaker A:And thank you to the spreadsheet.
Speaker A:I can keep track here.
Speaker A:I went way off spreadsheets for a little while.
Speaker A:I'm back now.
Speaker A:Keeping track, keeping numbers.
Speaker B:Thank you.
Speaker C:I love a spreadsheet.
Speaker A:A good algo.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Yes.
Speaker B:Spread that sheet.
Speaker C:I knew I had a.
Speaker C:I knew that was coming.
Speaker A:It was.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker C:I was like, don't say it.
Speaker A:It's hard.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Microsoft jokes.
Speaker A:Three to one.
Speaker A:All right, what's in front of a cinematography, production design, sound, costumes, editing, and stunts, which apparently there's an angry ballerina in the mix.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:This is the one aspect of the movie, and I know we include score in here as well, that I just say is flawless.
Speaker B:The visuals are incredible.
Speaker B:The production design is incredible.
Speaker B:The costuming is incredible.
Speaker B:The music is incredible.
Speaker B:The sound design is perfect.
Speaker B:Like, everything in this aspect is flawless.
Speaker B:So white's 100%.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:Same.
Speaker C:Oh, my God.
Speaker C:I can't list all that stuff because I forget it.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker C:But, yeah, everything is perfect.
Speaker C:I think especially the costumes and just the character choices.
Speaker C:Like.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker C:I just love a cohesive.
Speaker C:It feels like I don't know if Darren Romanovsky has a hand in, like, everything when it comes to, like, putting together of the movie, but there is such a cohesion about it.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker C:And I just believe it all, so it just feels so real.
Speaker C:And you just definitely feel like you're in New York.
Speaker C:And you're just like, yeah, this is horrible.
Speaker C:But yeah, White Swan.
Speaker A:Yeah, same.
Speaker A:I, I think, I think it's so this, what this movie does and I love it when films do this.
Speaker A:Well, it's self contained.
Speaker A:Yeah, it's very self contained.
Speaker A:To this, to the, to the show, to the studio and her apartment.
Speaker A:And there's that one scene at the club.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:I was about to say, I think there's literally like seven locations total.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:And you, you feel.
Speaker A:I feel claustrophobic.
Speaker A:Like.
Speaker A:And what's interesting is that I'm like, even though I don't know what it's like to be a ballerina and to, to live with this level of self scrutiny and intensity, I feel her life because her life literally is those locations.
Speaker A:Like the club was an outlier for her.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:She goes to the studio, she goes home, she sleeps, she comes back, she doesn't eat.
Speaker A:And I'm feeling that, that kind of suffocated.
Speaker A:Yes.
Speaker A:Like we're driven to perfection, but we, we can't do anything else or else that will mean no perfection.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:It's like literally this fear.
Speaker A:And I was like, whatever he did, whatever choices he made in these areas, I'm like, I'm in it and I'm feeling claustrophobic.
Speaker A:So I love that.
Speaker A:Huge win for self contained storytelling.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:White's 14 to 1.
Speaker A:And now we're in the bro categories.
Speaker A:How we feeling?
Speaker B:Feeling good.
Speaker A:We feeling good.
Speaker A:Are we emerging?
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker A:Emerging here or we're just getting some goose skin?
Speaker A:Yes.
Speaker C:Oh, God.
Speaker B:Was that supposed to be shingles that she was like dealing with on her back?
Speaker A:Well, I think it was supposed to be the early, like illusion that she was going to sprout wings.
Speaker B:Sure.
Speaker B:But like the actual thing, like, it looked like shingles.
Speaker A:It could have been.
Speaker A:Yeah, I know.
Speaker B:Those are very much stress induced.
Speaker A:Really?
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:I knew someone who had shingles, but I never saw the shingles.
Speaker B:I, I lived with a guy who ended up getting shingles and even though he treated me like a piece of shit, he was like, can you put the cream on my shingles, please?
Speaker B:I can't reach.
Speaker B:I was like, fuck you.
Speaker C:Shingles is such a visceral name.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:It's like, oh, God.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:It sounds like something fecal, doesn't it?
Speaker A:Yeah, something along the fecal name.
Speaker B:I mean, it is the adult version of chickenpox.
Speaker A:Really?
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:I didn't know that.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:I call this category Dance Dance Revolution.
Speaker C:That's great.
Speaker A:You know, film, there's lots of Films, and I didn't list them all, but we're.
Speaker A:Dance is a theme.
Speaker A:How do we feel about this as a movie that's built on the concept of dance?
Speaker B:I don't have much else to compare it to, so I think it's.
Speaker B:It's.
Speaker B:For what it's trying to portray, I think it does a great job.
Speaker B:So it's.
Speaker B:It's going to be a white swan for me, but I'm in.
Speaker B:In one.
Speaker B:In a few.
Speaker B:In a.
Speaker B:In a rare moment in movie wars.
Speaker B:This is something where I'm just going completely uneducated on it.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:So it.
Speaker B:It spoke to me.
Speaker B:I think it.
Speaker B:I think it did its job.
Speaker B:Well, I can't really compare it.
Speaker A:We'll save the last dance.
Speaker A:No, I'll list a few here.
Speaker A:Baby Billy Elliot, Dirty Dancing, Footloose, Saturday Night Fever, Flash Dance, the Red Shoe, Center Stage, Step Up.
Speaker B:The only one of those I've seen was Dirty Dancing, and I hated it.
Speaker C:Oh, yeah.
Speaker C:Well, I didn't like that for other reasons, but the dancing part was fun.
Speaker A:La La Land also shitty movie.
Speaker C:Oh, yeah.
Speaker B:La La Land is dancing.
Speaker B:Didn't see La La Land.
Speaker C:Oh, don't.
Speaker C:It's not good.
Speaker A:It's dog.
Speaker C:The dancing is very cute.
Speaker B:Damien Chazelle is someone I've never really given a.
Speaker B:About.
Speaker B:I didn't see Whiplash because I felt like it was just a ripoff of this.
Speaker A:Oh, Whiplash.
Speaker C:Whiplash.
Speaker A:That's the movie I thought about the whole time I was watching this.
Speaker A:I love Whiplash.
Speaker C:Is that the drumming movie?
Speaker A:Movie?
Speaker C:Yeah, yeah, yeah, we watched.
Speaker A:Dude.
Speaker A:It's extraordinary.
Speaker B:Completely a rip off of this.
Speaker A:It is, but 100.
Speaker A:It's like that for music.
Speaker A:It's like.
Speaker B:Sure.
Speaker A:But J.K.
Speaker A:simmons, though.
Speaker A:Yeah, I'm sure.
Speaker B:I'm sure he and Miles Teller do a good job.
Speaker B:I don't like Miles Teller as an actor that much, and I.
Speaker B:I just thought the story was a complete ripoff.
Speaker B:So I was like, yeah, I don't really care.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker C:It's so funny because my husband's a drummer.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker C:So Whiplash is about drumming and then this is about ballet and it's like both of our movies.
Speaker C:Yeah, yeah, we watched that in a of years.
Speaker C:Couple cabin and somewhere in the middle of nowhere when I was on mushrooms.
Speaker A:Pakistan.
Speaker C:Great.
Speaker B:In East Palestine, Ohio.
Speaker A:I love a good Middle Eastern Airbnb.
Speaker B:It had three walls.
Speaker C:You can get mushrooms there, too.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:And then.
Speaker A:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker A:So you.
Speaker C:The dancing aspect.
Speaker A:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker B:It's from my limited perspective.
Speaker B:It was good.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:White Swan.
Speaker C:Oh, I say White Swan, too.
Speaker C:I wish there had been more dancing.
Speaker C:My favorite parts of Black.
Speaker C:Of.
Speaker C:Not Black Swan.
Speaker C:My favorite spot.
Speaker C:My favorite parts of Swan Lake.
Speaker C:The ballet.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker C:Are actually at the party where she turns into the Black Swan, and she's like a seductress, and, like, that's the fun part of Swan Lake.
Speaker C:Swan Lake is very, like, military.
Speaker C:It's like a military dance.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker C:Up until that part.
Speaker C:And then it's fun, but I just wish they had had more of it.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker C:Not even of her or Mila Kunis, like the rest of the dancers.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker C:That would have been cool to add just five minutes more of dancing.
Speaker B:That was something that was a little jarring for me is that we go from only being in the studio to suddenly they're performing.
Speaker B:We don't even get to see a dress rehearsal.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:We see them just go from no lighting cues, no stage cues, to now we're performing.
Speaker C:Oh, you know what?
Speaker C:That reminds me.
Speaker C:I feel like there is a rehearsal in it because she's wearing this.
Speaker C:Like, there's something about the costume design I completely forgot until right now.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker C:Rodarte did the costumes, and this was, like, right when they were beginning.
Speaker C:And this was part of my love of being a fashion designer.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker C:But they.
Speaker C:She, like, basically has these cobwebby, sweatery things, and she wears the shrugs and stuff, and they kind of.
Speaker C:She goes from having a little bit to, like, a lot.
Speaker C:And it's like the clothes are kind of, like, helping her, like, cocoon to transform at the end.
Speaker C:So I just wish.
Speaker C:I wish there was more dancing.
Speaker C:I might go Black Swan on this one.
Speaker C:Oh, yeah.
Speaker C:I really wish there was more dancing.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:Damn.
Speaker A:I want to come with you on this.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker A:I really want to sink this motherfucker.
Speaker C:Sink it.
Speaker A:I don't know why.
Speaker A:I just.
Speaker A:I want to take it out on it.
Speaker C:But all the other movies you listed, I've seen most of them, except Step Up, I think, and all of them have so much dancing in them.
Speaker C:And that's what dancers like to watch in movies.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker C:This was almost less about dancing and more about just a psychological breakdown.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker C:But alas, Black Swan.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:This is a ballet of mental illness.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:I.
Speaker A:I struggle the re.
Speaker A:I actually did go White Swan.
Speaker A:I do want to go with you.
Speaker A:I really do, Mariana.
Speaker A:I just really want to just.
Speaker A:On this movie.
Speaker A:Movies will burn.
Speaker A:But I.
Speaker A:You know, I don't.
Speaker A:I've been to ballets.
Speaker A:I've been to several, actually, because I was.
Speaker A:When I was studying Before I studied business, I studied music, and part of my major I had to go to.
Speaker A:We had a.
Speaker A:We had a dance center nearby.
Speaker A:It was in Tulsa.
Speaker A:I went to.
Speaker A:It was a city called Silent Springs and Arkansas, But Tulsa was 30 minutes away.
Speaker A:They have a great ballet place there.
Speaker A:And we would go watch Oklahoma.
Speaker A:And I.
Speaker A:I eventually, like, respected the art form, but I was just never into it.
Speaker A:Yeah, I.
Speaker A:I like, if I didn't have to go for school, I probably wouldn't go.
Speaker A:I'm just going to be real.
Speaker A:All the respect to the mentally ill ballerinas of the world.
Speaker A:But I never.
Speaker A:Watching this, though.
Speaker A:I never, like, thought about the ballet.
Speaker A:I was never like, ballet.
Speaker A:I like.
Speaker A:They kind of suckered me into, like, wanting to watch this movie about ballet.
Speaker A:And you're right, it's not all about that.
Speaker A:But that's why I give it.
Speaker A:Because I hate all those other movies, like Footloose, like, all the movies I just listed.
Speaker A:La La Land.
Speaker A:I literally hated all of those movies, but for some reason, it never fazed me here.
Speaker A:And I think that's a.
Speaker A:That's a.
Speaker A:Actually a nod to them.
Speaker A:So, yeah, I really wanted to hate it, but.
Speaker A:Sorry.
Speaker A:White Swan.
Speaker C:Watch the Red Shoes.
Speaker A:Let's try.
Speaker A:Maybe we can sync it with this last one here.
Speaker A:What do you think?
Speaker B:We'll see.
Speaker A:That's right.
Speaker A:We are now.
Speaker B:I mean, it's still one, but.
Speaker B:Okay.
Speaker A:What do they call that kind of journalism?
Speaker A:Where.
Speaker A:Where it's like.
Speaker A:It's not real journalism.
Speaker A:It's like your opinions.
Speaker A:No, that's Hunter S.
Speaker A:Thompson.
Speaker A:Yeah, like op eds.
Speaker A:Like this is.
Speaker C:I could do that.
Speaker A:They also call it another thing.
Speaker A:It's.
Speaker A:It's like editorial.
Speaker A:Editorial.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:We're.
Speaker A:Now, this is an editorial scorecard.
Speaker A:We're actually just trying to.
Speaker A:To assign it a score to sink it.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:That was stupid.
Speaker A:I don't know why I'm talking Requiem for a Dream Vinyl.
Speaker A:All right, five to one.
Speaker A:It doesn't matter at this point.
Speaker A:It's.
Speaker A:But this last one, I call it Clearing the Air Anoscape.
Speaker A:I have his eight films listed here.
Speaker A:Now, when you IMDb him, you're going to be overwhelmed.
Speaker A:You're going to see a ton of movies.
Speaker A:And they.
Speaker A:Why did Kai only have eight?
Speaker A:He has produced three times more movies than he's directed.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:These are his directorial movies in order of critic score on Rotten Tomatoes, 98 for the Wrestler.
Speaker A:That's number one pie.
Speaker A:His original film, 88%.
Speaker A:That came out in 98.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:85 for Black Swan, number three, Requiem for a Dream number four at 78, which is weird to me.
Speaker B:Wow.
Speaker A:Noah, 75%.
Speaker A:Mother, 68.
Speaker A:The Whale, 64.
Speaker A:Then the Fountain, 52%.
Speaker A:That's right.
Speaker A:I said the fountain.
Speaker A:Is this movie.
Speaker A:Is this.
Speaker A:Should it be in his top five or.
Speaker A:Or should it be higher?
Speaker A:I mean, another thing to look at is how many awards it got.
Speaker A:This is his most award.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:Nominated his most award winnings.
Speaker A:I mean, is this.
Speaker A:Should this be closer to the top, or.
Speaker B:I haven't seen.
Speaker B:I.
Speaker B:I have.
Speaker B:I should say.
Speaker B:I've only seen this one.
Speaker B:Requiem and Noah.
Speaker B:Of those three, I think it's right in the middle.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:This one's significantly better on so many other levels.
Speaker B:But.
Speaker B:And.
Speaker B:And I love Noah personally, but if I was gonna completely objectively look at it.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:It's.
Speaker B:It's nothing crazy special.
Speaker B:It's.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker B:It's well made.
Speaker B:Like, it's really good, but it's not.
Speaker B:It's nothing groundbreaking like either of these two movies are.
Speaker B:But knowing him and.
Speaker B:And knowing his art form and also knowing kind of the plot of the whale and of Mother.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:I think.
Speaker B:I think this does belong up there.
Speaker B:There.
Speaker B:It gives a very different look into this world that, especially when it came out, I think went against a lot of.
Speaker B:I don't know, a lot of the tone of movies that was coming out.
Speaker B:This very much speaks back to his pie and Requiem for a Dream Days.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:Like, it very much.
Speaker B: to: Speaker B:And.
Speaker B:And this.
Speaker B:And Inception kind of really ended this genre of, like, the Mind Fuck and.
Speaker B:And.
Speaker B:But that.
Speaker B:That really started with, like, Fight Club and American Psycho and Recommend for a Dream back in the day.
Speaker B:So it's like, it harkened back to his early film.
Speaker B:So, yeah, I definitely think it belongs in his top five.
Speaker B:But that's only coming from someone who's seen three of his movies.
Speaker B:So it's.
Speaker B:It's a.
Speaker B:It's a white swan for me.
Speaker A:White swan?
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker A:What do you think?
Speaker C:I think it definitely belongs in his.
Speaker C:In his top five, but I understand why it's the most commercially successful out of all of them.
Speaker C:Even though the Wrestler has the highest rating, I understand why this one has the most awards.
Speaker C:It was more palatable than any of his other movies.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker C:And honestly, it's the kind of movie that you could take somebody who's not into movies, too.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker C:And they could watch it, too, and, like, be like, oh, yeah, this.
Speaker C:I get it.
Speaker C:But, like, the wrestler.
Speaker C:Like, the wrestler's my favorite.
Speaker C:But then again, so is Mother's.
Speaker B:Not your favorite.
Speaker C:Mother is also my favorite.
Speaker C:Mother and pie.
Speaker C:I forgot I need to see it.
Speaker B:I.
Speaker B:I've heard.
Speaker A:Dude, you would dig it.
Speaker C:I'm so happy that you mentioned that.
Speaker C:This was very much like PI and Requiem.
Speaker C:And those were.
Speaker C:They're less polished, like Mother and like, his later movies.
Speaker C:I didn't see the whale yet, and I didn't see Noah, but I just feel like they're kind of like him, but polished.
Speaker C:And the fountain, I tried to watch, but I understand why that's.
Speaker B:I mean.
Speaker B:What'd you say the budget for this was?
Speaker A:It was 13 million.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:For such a low budget, it's.
Speaker B:It's perfectly not polished.
Speaker C:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker C:It's perfect in its own way.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker C:But I just love that it still feels that, like, gritty Darren Aronofskiness.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker C:But it's still like, I can bring in somebody who's not obsessed with movies and they can enjoy it.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker C:So.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:White Swan.
Speaker C:White Swan.
Speaker B:White Swan.
Speaker C:I was about to say.
Speaker C:I'm, like, trying to think, clearing the air.
Speaker A:Anov.
Speaker A:God.
Speaker A:I just wanted to say it again.
Speaker B:I know it's good.
Speaker A:I.
Speaker A:I did go Black Swan here.
Speaker A:I.
Speaker A:I just.
Speaker A:I like it.
Speaker A:I just.
Speaker A:I just think Requiem and the Wrestler.
Speaker A:The Wrestler is my favorite.
Speaker A:I.
Speaker A:Not just of his, but I just think it's one of the greatest American films.
Speaker A:When you look.
Speaker A:Talk about the genre.
Speaker A:There is a genre of American filmmaking.
Speaker A:There Will Be Blood.
Speaker A:Those types of movies.
Speaker A:Wrestler is firmly in there.
Speaker C:Oh, yeah.
Speaker A:Mickey Rourke.
Speaker A:Somehow he got this insane performance out of Mickey Rourke.
Speaker C:Wow.
Speaker A:Requiem is.
Speaker A:And you're right, there is this idea of accessibility.
Speaker A:If you're adding accessibility into it, then yeah.
Speaker A:I mean, this is.
Speaker A:Compared to those two, is probably his most accessible.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:I made the mistake of having a Requiem for a Dream party in college.
Speaker A:Invited a bunch of, like, people from my local ministry that I worked in.
Speaker A:I worked in this Christian.
Speaker C:Wow.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:I was like, hey, I got a great.
Speaker A:I just had no sense of.
Speaker A:Of.
Speaker A:Of what is a.
Speaker A:No self awareness.
Speaker C:You were not self aware at all.
Speaker A:I was like, hey, let's go serve the.
Speaker A:The homeless here.
Speaker A:And then we're gonna watch this Requiem for a Dream movie.
Speaker C:Oh, my God.
Speaker A:And we're gonna.
Speaker A:And people were bad at, like, literally.
Speaker A:I lost friends.
Speaker C:I bet you did.
Speaker A:I'm much more self aware now.
Speaker B:Oh, man.
Speaker A:But you know how it is.
Speaker A:I'm a film lover and I just wanted people to be on that level.
Speaker A:And I Forget that.
Speaker A:Not everybody likes me movies at that level.
Speaker A:So.
Speaker A:Honest mistake.
Speaker A:I own up to it.
Speaker A:But I also love movies.
Speaker A:So just.
Speaker A:You got to take everything I say with a grain of salt.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker A:I should have known better, but I didn't.
Speaker A:This is college.
Speaker A:That was my, my big mistake.
Speaker A:But yeah, I also, I just think Requiem is.
Speaker A:Even though I really don't ever want to watch it again.
Speaker A:I've watched it probably five or six times.
Speaker A:That's enough.
Speaker A:But I just have so much damn respect.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:For that visual spectacle that is.
Speaker B:God, it's so good.
Speaker A:It's so good.
Speaker A:The, the this, the score.
Speaker A:Oh, my God.
Speaker A:But yeah, I, I think this is good.
Speaker A:But I do, I just think it's not as complete as some of the other ones.
Speaker A:So I do go Black Swan.
Speaker A:The whale is, is really good.
Speaker A:It is extremely polished compared to these other ones.
Speaker A:It's definitely him and I think it's a cool flavor.
Speaker A:And he does this.
Speaker A:He did it with Noah.
Speaker A:He has these interesting little offshoot movies.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:But they don't feel like as much of the Aronofsky I love.
Speaker A:So, yeah, I do go.
Speaker A:I do go Black Swan on this one.
Speaker A:It's great.
Speaker A:But I don't think it's, it's, it's as in his top top, you know.
Speaker A:But six to one, it doesn't matter.
Speaker A:We like this movie.
Speaker A:And we need a pick me up.
Speaker A:Yeah, we need a pick me up.
Speaker A:We need to.
Speaker A:July is coming.
Speaker A:Gonna definitely lean in some action to clear the palette here.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Next week y' all have mid summer.
Speaker B:And then after that, I think we're doing Independence Day.
Speaker A:Independence Day.
Speaker C:Oh, great one.
Speaker C:Do y' all want me to do the speech right now?
Speaker C:I can do it.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:We just slowly fade out as she.
Speaker B:She's doing the speech.
Speaker B:She's in the speech.
Speaker B:And we're just like, I'm Kyle.
Speaker B:Upset.
Speaker B:We start packing, breaking down the microphones.
Speaker B:And she's still going.
Speaker A:But we were so stoked to have you back on the show.
Speaker A:Third time.
Speaker A:You're the leader of the guests.
Speaker C:Thank God.
Speaker B:I hate and I think still the only woman.
Speaker A:And the only woman.
Speaker C:Nice.
Speaker A:No one.
Speaker A:No one.
Speaker A:No.
Speaker A:There's no other women that, that want to come on the show.
Speaker C:There's not a.
Speaker C:Okay, I will say this.
Speaker C:In my life, I haven't met two too many women who were obsessed with film.
Speaker C:That's true.
Speaker B:I, I, I have just cuz I went to film school.
Speaker C:But that's if I.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:And if I did, they went to film school.
Speaker A:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker A:I have to watch these movies when my wife isn't home because she just is not going to deal with it.
Speaker C:Same with my husband, too.
Speaker C:I'm like, I have to schedule time when he's practicing something else.
Speaker C:And away.
Speaker B:I'm just glad she likes the movies.
Speaker B:I pick more than you do.
Speaker A:She does.
Speaker B:She.
Speaker A:She's more on Seth's side of the.
Speaker A:The aisle with film.
Speaker A:But this was a blast.
Speaker A:And I'm not going to watch any ballet for a while.
Speaker A:I'm going to take a break.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:Love y' all.
Speaker A:I'm Kyle.
Speaker B:I'm Seth.
Speaker C:I'm Mariana.
Speaker A:Movie Wars.
Speaker B:Sam.
