The Shawshank Redemption Vs. The Green Mile (Ep. 0047)

  Movie Wars, episode: 0047

This is Kyle. Get busy living or get busy podcasting. This is Drew. Yeah, baby. How can you be so obtuse? This is Phil. For, for being, uh Relatively heavy films the quotability is high very high very high in both these movies What a low hanging fruit matchup we have done We are doing the Shawshank Redemption versus the Green Mile the Shawshank Redemption Really doesn't need any introductions one of the most beloved films of all time I don't know if today it is but for most of IMDB's existence It was the number one rated below most beloved film on IMDB I don't know how we avoided doing this on a movie war so long It's my fault.

I'll own it. Shawshank, to me, felt like it's the greatest movie of all time, so why the heck would we ever compare any other movie to that? But I stand corrected. Green Mile was better than I thought, so I'm glad we're here. Stephen King, uh, adaptations are very hit and miss, and I say that as a, as a very well read Stephen King somewhat fan.

It's funny, for how much of like, kind of like, half and half I am on him, I have read so many of his books. I get it though, right? And Shawshank has such a high, such a high regard, but then you dive in, both Stephen King novellas. Or sorry, Greenwild was actually, well it started off as a novella. It was a six, he released it in six entries.

They weren't done when he released them. So he would write a section, release it, but the next one wasn't written. So he literally was making up each novella as he went, but now you can only buy it as a complete collection. He's uh, done that a few times. He did that with, uh, the Dark Tower. People have such a love hate with that.

series because as it got further and further down the line, like by the time you reach the seventh book, it's super disconnected from the first one. And he's kind of known for doing similar things and it really shows in the movie too, because it feels like short stories, very much feels like, you know, cause then you spend some time with Brooks and like, okay, that was a short story.

Did you spend some time with, you know, Tommy who came in? you know, to the, and he was just there for a minute and then he was gone. Like it's very, very different from a typical movie structure. Yeah. And that's gotta honestly play into the favor of the movie. That's gotta kind of feel like what the life in prison, I'm not going to sit here to pretend like to know what life in prison feels like, but you know, it's got to feel like depending on who you're cooped up with, you know, you're experiencing people coming in and going, people go into death row, people, duh, duh, duh.

It's just like the sisters. Yeah. They were there for a bit. Thank God they left. Yeah. Oh, right. Yeah. They did just kind of vaporize at one point, like serial rapists. and then boom, out. Just some quick cereal. f*ckin Yeah, but you get into these two movies, we have both Stephen King source material, Frank Darabont directed both.

Both prison. Tom Hanks at one point was gonna be in Shawshank, but ended up making it up to him later. He was doing a little movie called, uh, Forrest Gump during that time. It's just so similar, and, and the only thing that's really different is that there's not the element of, like, the supernatural in the Shawshank.

That's really the only differentiator, but I still think, I don't know if you both agree, but even though there's not supernatural, there, it's just. feeling of magic in Shawshank, I don't know, I can't really describe it, but it does have almost this mystical feel to it. It's Morgan Freeman's voice, is what you're referring to.

Yes. That's the magic. Very enchanting. You know, and I think prison movies are interesting, like, it's something if you're a law abiding citizen you probably don't walk around thinking about prison a lot, but it's, it really plays into this. Sentimentality almost when you watch what it was that show on MTV remember cribs cribs.

Yeah. Yeah. What was the what was the prison show? Where they would take you into prison and they would let these teenagers who keep getting arrested get cussed out by lockdown Something something like that and like these murderers and rapists would like you out these kids you mother it's like that's my that's funny I've got a vague memory of that from MTV and my dad was a narcotics officer so like almost all prison movies aside from a few like Escape from Alcatraz they use it as an opportune time for sentimentality and both of these.

Films really lean into that. I mean, as does the source. I've nothing but time. Nothing but time and like all like, it just feels like for the most part, aside from like, obviously Bill and a few Wild Ones, these are all really good guys. . Yeah. Right. Like, it just feels like these ERs are all like, they kill people.

Like, uh, what's his face Del in the book? They don't get into it in the movies. Dell was a bad guy. Like, he killed kids. He was a pyromaniac and set fires that killed children. Like he was not a good guy. But in the movie, they, they opted for sentimentality. Yeah, they went for the Bobo. Definitely. But these were, this was real fun.

I had a good time with this. You want, you guys want to give, uh, give us some impressions here? So Shawshank Redemption has historically been the movie that I point to when someone asks me, What's your favorite movie? As many do. However, I hadn't seen it in several years. I think it's been probably close to eight or ten years since I've actually watched it.

So I was excited to see kind of how it held up where I am in my life now. It was interesting because it held up very, very strongly. There was some plot points that I didn't remember that completely blew me away. But then I think I saw some seams, there were a couple of nits that I could pick now that I never noticed before.

So it's kind of, it was fun to kind of revisit quote unquote my favorite movie, having seen, you know, probably 300 other great movies since I've last watched it. But man, it just, that movie just does something to me. It cuts me right open. I watch it with my wife and we just. Man, had such a great time. Uh, Green Mile, I don't know, maybe I'd just seen bits and pieces of it probably 20 years ago or so, whenever it came out.

I didn't remember liking it that much, which again, that's why I pushed back on us matching it up for so long. But I was really blown away at how much I enjoyed it. Like, I was very surprised. Maybe I just had low expectations, but I'm a Tom Hanks fanboy. I love everything he touches, typically. Same kind of deal.

I'd say it's made me feel similar things, but the plot wasn't as strong to me. It just There's something about the magical sci fi aspect of it. Kind of felt a little weird to me, but I thought the acting was great. I thought it was a really enjoyable movie, a little long for my taste. I thought they could have tightened it up a bit, but still just a really well made film, really beautiful movie, not nearly as hopeful.

as Shawshank, but nearly as impactful. This might be a hard question to answer, but have you been able to, after all these years, like, identify what connects with you so strong? Because you have an obvious connection with that movie, like a lot of people do, but what is it pulling in you that makes you say, like, that movie connects with me?

Wow, that's a good question. I'm drawn in by kind of the brotherhood that happens between Morgan Freeman and Tim Robbins. It's almost like, almost a love story, a little bit, in a completely Platonic. Platonic way. But the way they really connect. And they didn't, you know, they, like, they met in prison and then, like, you, they, the director walked you through their relationship and the scene on the roof when he gets suds for his boys and how, like, instantly Tim was in the group and, like, that kind of changed everything from that point.

And I don't know. I just, I was, I'm really drawn to that relationship and then how they end up meeting at the end. It's like, I don't know, grand finale meeting. It just feels very love story, but not in a weird. Yeah, just friendship brotherly way and I think that connects with me for some reason. I love that.

It's like you and me. Yeah When we go to prison, you're my guy that can get things. Yeah We're gonna start a gas station together I Still after watching that movie am not a hundred percent sure what the name of the town was he was saying he was like I'm gonna go to How are you? And then Morgan Freeman, he'd be like, just remember that town name and he'd be like, yeah The f*ck are you guys talking about?

I know, why did Acapulco become the friggin Elvis, the Elvis movie? Christmas in Acapulco or whatever It's somewhere on the Pacific side of Mexico. That's all I know. Yeah, amazing. Phil, what do you think? Oh, man, um I'll start with Green Mile. I'd actually never seen that somehow. Another one that I, you know, I remember it, once again, being out and everybody talking about it and how much everybody loved Michael Clarke Duncan in that movie and the character that he portrayed and, and I think it maybe also came out at a time where it was kind of Unthinkable that innocent people were out there getting executed even though it's, you know, probably happened more times than we realized So I think that really struck a chord with people, um, but I'd never seen it So when I finally did get to watch it for this, I really loved the movie itself The cg really bothered me which I know is like a But like I was this is how it went for me I was really in weird CG supernatural sh*t happened I got pulled out for a minute and I was like that was unexpected and jarring and then I was like, you know as the story progressed I was like back in other than some of the really dated elements that haven't aged well and like some of The hokiness of the supernatural stuff and how that was interwoven in the movie That was it was really really great film to finally get to see meanwhile on the other side of the coin You have Shawshank Redemption, which like Drew said is counted by so many people as a one of the best movies ever made or their favorite movie.

I remember for years, if you looked up like the top X, you know, however many movies of all time, like that was always like one, two or three on the list. And for me, I, for the longest time would say the same thing that that was a favorite movie of mine. So, and it had been probably even longer than drew since I'd seen it probably at least 15 years or so.

And man, just as good as I remember, if not better. Um, and so I'm just excited to be here talking about these. I'm just so glad to be here. I just want to thank my team. I just want to Thank, uh, first off, my mother for mothering me. For shawshanking you. For, yes. Thanked me right out of walking the green mile for you.

Yeah. What about you, Kyle? When did you see these movies? This is gonna be a little longer answer, I, it's, I have such a history with Stephen King. He's your father. Yeah, exactly. I, I Your literary daddy. Literary daddy. Just like everything in my life. I read Stephen King too young. I think my first Stephen King book was it and I that was Extremely violent extremely there's race stuff in there.

There's you know bigotry in that book There's a lot of stuff for a little guy in there some horrible stuff, but you know, it's so funny I Stephen King is an author who I respect I've read a lot of his stuff including both of the these in the The Green Mile I read twice and I had I read it in its full format, you know, it had already been a series for a long time by the time I got it.

I, I did read portions of, uh, Rita Hayworth and the Shawshank Redemption, which it came out as a novella in the same series as The Body, which The Body was the source material for, uh, Stand By Me. Stephen King is so funny to me. I think these two films, the, the literature that it's based on, Are the best versions of his writing and I know a lot of people think Shawshank is one of the best films ever made But in terms of his writing, I think these are the best examples and and he does have some tropes in here And we'll talk about some of these tropes later.

It's not that he's devoid of tropes here You know when in his horror stuff, which I like don't love but read a lot for some reason He loves like telepathy. It's like his crutch. He really does. He read the dark towers. Yeah, I read when in doubt telepathy the shining Telepathy. He has this weird propensity in so many of his books.

Like he did this in The Shining, Dick O'Halloran, John Coffey, and in the book, Red is white. He's a white Irishman in the book, so he's not black. Oh, interesting. In the movie, it kind of plays it up, too. He has these tropes that he just goes back to all the time. That is an interesting observation, yeah. And I'm not saying a lot of artisans have tropes and repeat, and it worked, obviously, because he's one of the most prolific writers of all time.

But, I think the Green Mile is one of the Best examples of his writing ability. Um, and the book connected me enough where I read it twice in high school. Loved it. And as far as these movies go, I liked Shawshank as a kid, but I was still such a action head as a little kid that it didn't really resonate with me then.

I just don't think I was mature enough, but I did love the Green Mile. I actually watched the movie and that's when I read the book and I loved it. I, it really resonated with me. I liked Tom Hanks a lot growing up. It's got some glaring plot stuff, some real, a couple of stupid decisions. Like in the movie?

But, well, both, and that's one thing is like The Green Mile's pacing was really, from a storytelling perspective, the only thing that really bothered me about that movie. Other than, like The plot didn't bother you at all? Well, but the mouse and the living until 108, and like, that stuff was fine? No, yeah, yeah, yeah, you're right.

That, the 108 thing, it, well, that was like the hokey, uh, That was the supernatural piece that just kinda like that started, like, the bug started flying out of his mouth, or whatever the hell that was, I feel like they didn't clarify. It was particles of sickness, I don't know. It was very strange. Illness particles.

I felt like I needed more information. Yeah, I think the big plot points in The Green Mile that get me is really the fact that, and again, they were very faithful to the novel. The problem with me is that, like, they know he's innocent, he's done all these incredible things, and they don't feel like they owe anything to him to at least try.

Like, when his wife asks him, you don't think the warden can do anything, and he says, No. Really? You don't think he can do anything, or at least try to pull the string to get this man out? Now, yes, he says he's ready to die, but is that a good plot point, or is that a convenient plot point? point to bail out the fact that this magic man did all that was kind of the some of the pacing stuff.

Like, I felt like they were, they spent a lot of time on the rat, a lot of time on the Delacroix character, a lot of time on what more that one really should guard. And then like when it came time for John coffees execution, they like got there. It was like, yeah, we're cruising, cruising, cruising. Oh yeah.

It's time for you to die now. No, his mom like knows people or something. Like what was all of that? Yes. Yeah. And then he just ends up in a mental institution because he, you know, it was the little sponge for all those. Like, why wouldn't you just focus on who we eventually find out to be the killer?

That's, that was my thing with that movie too. Was like why they focused a really minimal amount of time on the John coffee thing, which they're trying to throw us off the scent. Maybe like, oh, he's just annoying. He spits cookies out of people and like, he's gross. But it was like trying to make us hate Percy the whole time.

And at the last second, it like zags and says, Actually, it's this guy. It's like, okay, I see what they were trying to do maybe, but it didn't land. I think the metaphor and the subtle analysis gets lost in there because I really think Percy's purpose is to show us that good and bad exist on both sides of the law.

You know, he's technically on the other side of the bar from these criminals, but his behavior is so abhorrent. And I think that's the point. That's at least my analysis. But like you both said, that point just gets lost, because you're just spending so much time. And I think it's nec That's a good reading.

That's a good I like that. I think it's necessary to focus on them, but again, the movie is about 30 minutes too long. I think in a shorter version, they still focus on them, but if it's not as if it's not 30 minutes too long, it doesn't feel like you're spending too much like, they would make the necessary cuts.

where you still get that message, but you don't feel overwrought with him. Yeah. That's my opinion. I also think they, I guess this is becoming like sh*t on Green Mile and I don't intend it to be, but I also, while we're here, I think they could have cut a lot of the stuff with Tom Hanks wife. I think they could have just given him like a migraine or something and then the dude heals.

Like he had to have this UTI that like, several scenes we saw him like painfully peeing and then he finally is healed and goes home and makes love to his wife and there's like this whole, like, who cares? Why do we care about Tom Hanks wife and his sex life? Maybe because it's if, if, uh, if he had a brain issue, then he healed him.

He just had to have a very like intelligent conversation with her four times instead. Is that the alternative? Just don't have any conversations. They don't care about his wife. Instead of having sex four times. I don't know. That was a bad joke. It seemed weird. But yeah, no, I agree. The choices were weird.

And yeah, this isn't sh*t on Green Mile. It's really good and I love it and I actually I was having a sh*tty day and I texted you guys I sobbed like for whatever reason, you know when like you're like just in a weird head space And you see the wrong like you hear the song or you see it Yeah, you read it right at the right time and it just like cuts that wound and for some reason the the last 30 minutes man Really hit me hard like his punishment for killing john coffey Like the idea of when he talked about seeing his Son die and seeing his wife die, that he's telling this woman that he's befriended that I'll see you die.

Like that hit me so hard. But it goes right to her funeral, like mid-sentence, like, holy sh*t. You, regardless of the bad plot choice they made with, um, with him, with him not trying to at least get him outta prison. Mm-Hmm. it still hit me really hard that he has to live this really long existence knowing that maybe he killed God's only living miracle.

That was just really heavy to me, and for some reason it resonated and I feel like of all the. They did deliver on that to me, but I also was kind of an emotional wreck when I watched it. Yeah. So, you never know, but, you know, they did deliver, but regardless, I think Darabont does sentimental very well. And I think Shawshank, one of the reasons that it does deliver, and I told you guys this would be, sorry, this is such a long impressions, but I just have so much Stephen King history.

But, Shawshank has filmmaking moments. One of the examples is when he is escaping, and the thunder, he's lining up his hammering. The Green Mile doesn't have a lot of those. Interesting. But Shawshank has those little moments. That's one of my problems with it. Really? You don't like that? The thunder alignment?

Of all the things that felt like really tough to believe that, I mean it's not like he had AccuWeather or like a way to check the weather, like how did he know that it was gonna be thundering that night? Yeah. Like the whole, and how did he know he was just gonna like be able to pound a rock through that?

Like what if he gets down there? He's Like completely committed he's through the hole. He's wearing the freaking shoes and stuff Like whatever doesn't work out like it was just you had to suspend some disbelief. Sure. Totally. Yeah I've lived in the south my whole life. Like I remember I texted you guys So I was like, I think I told you guys there's gonna be tornadoes today.

Like I just felt like there were going to, and there was that F word. Your knee was hurting. It was the whole, like, you know, Your knee is hurting. My knee is cricking. I'm not saying that fully explains it, but I do wonder, just being plain devil's advocate, if you're in that prison for 19 years and you're in the same place, you've seen all the, think about it.

You've seen all the weather. You've seen all the seasons, 19 years in a row. There is no weather variation anymore that you won't know about. Yes, exactly. 19 years. You've got this sh*t. Just plain devil's advocate. I see what you're saying though. I totally, Yeah, not a big deal, but What I'm saying is very farfetched.

I only even bring it up because you said there are. Filmmaking moments like when the thunder happened. I'm like that's like the worst part of the movie really that's funny because that part resonated with me So hard. I just thought it was a cool. Maybe it's because comparatively because we're we're in the comparison game, right?

I just think the Green Mile lacked some of that whereas I feel like Darabont was being a little creative there No matter how faulty, you know, it's it's at least a I love that like what the I You know red is a guy that can get things and he just he wants And they actually had me convinced the whole movie that he's just making rock sculptures.

Like, somehow I knew he was probably planning an escape, but I was so taken back by his sculptures. There's a meticulous attention to detail in the way that they tell a story and the order in which they present the information. Like he's hiding the rock in the Bible, or that rock hammer in the Bible. And we don't know that, you know, and he has that exchange about scripture with the warden and like how we see him use the rock and we're like, they didn't show to him carve his initials or whatever, but, and it like hinted at it, but it didn't, it didn't show us.

And then he gets the posters and the posters are kind of a whining thing as the women change and the posters get bigger and it's like Yeah, and they did a great job pulling you into the world, like you're so kind of in it, you're saturated that you're not, you know, a good movie, like you're not, I feel like a good definition is you're not questioning constantly.

I'm always, because I'm a film guy, I'm always kind of poking holes and questioning, but I was sucked in, in a way that I was like, I was kind of like, the little giveaways and things were just passing me by because I was just so, so into what I was experiencing. And it's so emotional. There's so much emotion in watching Brooks try to acclimate to the outside world.

That was a Brooke scene. And then you watch Red step for step, beat for beat, go through the same thing, but then take that other path and go the other way because why? He had hope. And that was the theme of the whole movie. It's all about hope and that's what Andy kept hammering home with Red and Brooks didn't really have any and like the whole get busy living, get busy dying thing gave him hope to like follow and go to Mexico and do the thing.

It just, I love the way the movie just presented that like fork in the road. Like this is what happens with hope and this is what happens without it. God, you just gave me a That's really good, right? You just gave me a tear thinking about that moment. That's really, really good. Brooks, God, that's heavenly.

No, that's, and that's some storytelling, man. fact that, that Red followed those same steps. You were wondering, if you've never seen it before, you're wondering like, God, no, not him too. That's a movie that if one of a few movies that if I could like erase the memory of and see it for the first time again, that's one I would do because it does such a good job of leading you down one path and then just hard left turning there in the last 30 minutes and being like, Oh, by the way, everything you thought was happening, it was do, it was something else entirely.

This guy was long. Yeah. Everyone did in the moment. The moment that the warden chucks the pebble at Rita and it doesn't, like, hit a wall and you hear it clank down or something, you're like, That's a moment that I remember storytelling. It instantly all comes to you, like, the rock hammer, the poster, he hit it in the body, like, it's like, all just like, oh, sh*t.

The dude just, like, dug his way out of prison. That's details, man. It's just, that's That's what that movie had on Green Mile was these details. But that's also a level of detail in storytelling that for, in my opinion, was not in the green. Like kind of like what you just said, like the big difference between the two movies was one was really over the top amazing at telling a story, and the other one was just telling a cool story, but not in an over the top amazing way.

It was like Shawshank, just that level of storytelling, I don't really know that it's been something that we've seen in cinema in many years at this point. You know, it's kind of like we've lost our patience for that as a society. That's a bigger conversation. Oh yeah. What specifically? Like what do you mean?

Just the pacing of it and like the level of detail and intricacy that they're willing to weave into the plot and like the amount of trust they have in the audience to follow along and remember little details so that the ending can kind of like be self explanatory in a way. I just feel like that level of like nuance and depth and like trust in the audience isn't there anymore.

Yeah. For the time being. I'm sure it'll come back. Everything always does. But like, man, I've missed that in films. Sure. You know? I think you could argue that they could lose the Tommy arc. That felt a little bit disjointed. And I think. Oh, the Elvis guy? I mean, yeah, it was like part of Andy's like breaking point, I think.

Like they, they needed something for Andy to, because he was investing in him, he had built a library, and he was helping him get his GED, and he saw like, maybe he saw a bit of himself in him, and he needed that. But then, obviously they killed him, which was crazy, like that, the whole thing, like that was like, where you really see the Wardens.

It's like evil. Well, I think that's why they, that was in there. It was like, you talked about the hope or not hope or no hope thing. Like that was a moment where all the hope was gone. You're just like, this movie is officially hopeless because these f*ckers are willing to like literally kill a young, really young guy so that the warden can keep his money launderer.

Right. Like how f*ck do you have to be? That's, that was a dark moment. And I love how they got Andy being so kind of like crazy with Red right before he did the, like he escaped, you know, cause that scene where they're talking when he says get busy living and get busy dying, he's kind of manic and kind of weird, but he had just gotten out of the hole and he's like kind of off kilter personality.

And that scene sort of made sense. Cause he'd just been like locked up in a black hole for two months. So like, yeah, he's a little off, but Red was worried about him. Like, is he going to kill himself? Like what's going on? And we later find out that was just like his breaking point. And he was. Can you imagine being in a hole for two months like that?

Dear God, no podcasting equipment? I'm just kidding. There were so many times in that movie that the warden would do something and you just like, wanted to scream no. Like when he slammed the door on him and said, Another month. And you're like, No! Are you serious? Or when he shot Tommy, You're like, No! He was gonna go!

Like, he's just so evil. Anyway, we should talk more about the Green Mile. No, absolutely. Well, and that's why prison movies are really interesting, because it plays with this notion that we don't often toil with unless it's been challenged, which is the notion of freedom. You know, and freedom is, is a, it's a, I would call it one of the most important tenets of philosophical study.

You know, it's, it's, do we have a soul? If we do, where does it come from and where does it go? It's, um, you know, and then it's morality versus, Our carnate, you know, experiences. What rights does it have? Yeah, and then third is the idea of freedom. Are we actually free as humans? Are we restrained by a religious religion?

Are we restrained by our darwinistic morality? Like, or our darwinistic carnivore tendency? Tenness Tendency? Tendency? Tendencyary! Tendencies, you know, but freedom is this weird thing and like depending on where you go depending on where you live depending on who you are You know Something as simple as how old you are if you're in the right place at the wrong time or the wrong place at the right Time like freedom is this weird thing and like these movies made me constant as i'm watching them And this is what I was telling you guys before we hit record I was like these The thing that kept me in these movies was I was questioning my own Existence in a way that I was like if I had my Freedom taken away, wrong wrongly.

Like if I was innocent and then I was in prison, how the f*ck would I handle that? Yeah, man, that's an unthinkable reality. Yeah, like it's just unreal. Especially when you are actually innocent. Like Tim Robbins character was in Michael Clark Duncan's character. Like just, well literally just have your life taken from you and there's nothing you can do about it.

You're just part of the system now. And the movie does a beautiful job. Ache, does a beautiful job of making you ask. That's the question you just asked by that scene with when they were taking bets. I love the way that Red like had his little gambling ring in the, and they were taking cigarette bets on who was going to cry first.

That very like betting on who was going to cry first and break like, and then we see quote unquote fat ass. You know, cry for his mommy or whatever, and they're all like, Okay, it was fat ass. But that whole scene made you, like, ask the question, like, What would I, how would I handle this? Like, would I cry?

Would I be quiet? Would I be in denial? Like, kind of made you ask that question. Well, yeah, and that's, uh, I've rambled enough. Really good analysis. The only last thing I'll say is, these are small movies in the way that we are, we're uh, isolated to mostly the prisons. Like there are scenes that happen at people's houses and in the grocery store, but because you're living in that area, I couldn't help but pay attention to, these are time pieces, two time pieces.

This is another one where like. Green Mile, like, had a little bit more plastic y feel, whereas I felt like Shawshank really felt dusty, kind of felt southern. It felt like, it felt like the time, I'm not saying that Green Mile did a bad job, but you kind of notice when you're living and when you're watching a movie and it's like not multi locational for the most part, you're living in a certain, you notice, and I was kind of like, well, Shawshank felt dusty and real, whereas, you know, you know, because I think of There Will Be Blood as a great time piece where like you feel like you're, In the time period they're selling you.

So I definitely love, again, not to sh*t on Green Mile, but Shawshank really made me feel like the time. You know, I really felt like it was taking me there. That's a great point. Yeah, it very much felt like the Shawshank State Penitentiary, why can I not say that? Penitentiary! Penitentiary! Penitentiary!

Shawshank the prison is a character in a, in a sense because of the way that it like the way they frame up that shot of the stairs, you know, at the, like at the end of the alleyway or whatever, like, and you see that shot several times, like over and over again, and then just like the yard where they're all playing.

And so like, it just feels visceral and like you're there. Yeah, and because Green Mile is Death Row, it felt like they wanted Sparky to be a character. Yeah, and that wasn't very big. It was very small. Like, it was like, what, four or five cells, maybe? And, like, I did like the use of the lights. Well, it was on a certain block in the That was their wing.

Like, a little wing of the prison. Yeah, it was just way more contained. Didn't it? I was watching that and it felt like that's where Pottery Barn's been getting their inspiration. for their giant lightbulbs for years. It's like the death row. Enjoy your nice death row. Light bulbs put above your table.

Eating with your family. Enjoy death row. Made famous by reclining electric chair. It leans back. It vibrates. It kills you. Randos after my longest Ram ramble ever it's warranted. Best movie, one of the best movies of all time, we're gonna talk about it. Do it. So, also, alongside God, I'm just like, all Shawshankin Aside from the movie itself, it's one of the coolest stories I've ever learned about how a movie came to be.

Darabont was a film student, and as much as I give Stephen King a hard time, I feel like he's a sellout. I feel like when it comes to his TV movies, like, he did it for the cheapest, he picked the worst producers, and they're very, he's cheapened his own art. But, Interesting. I'm sure other writers do this, but he has something where he sells his work for a dollar to film students, and they just can't use it commercially.

So they can't release it, they can't do it, but for the purposes of film study, they can buy his work for a dollar, and he calls them, I think they're called the dollar babies is what they're called. Frank Darabont wanted to do, oh, The Woman in the Room, which is not one I've read, I haven't read that, but I think it was, correct me if I'm wrong, I think it was part of that novella series with Shawshank and with The Body.

Oh, interesting, yeah, I don't know that. It caught Stephen King's attention because most people wanted to do the hitters, the children of the corn. They wanted to do like their versions of The Shining. Like they want to do it. He's like, this student wants to do the woman in the room, really? And he's like, who is this guy?

He was blown away by it. He loved it. And then he decided that he wanted him to do Shawshank, but it was bought by another studio. So he sued the studio, got the rights, allowed Darabont to buy the rights. And, and that's how he got to make the film. Um, it was his first major. I was just gonna ask, was that his first major production?

It was, his first major, which is wild. I was gonna say, uh, Darabont paid 5, 000 for the rights to do Shawshank Redemption. That's it? Stevie King never cashed the check. After it blew up and was a wild success, he mailed the check back framed. Really? A cool gesture. I didn't know that story. That's incredible.

That's a, that's a rando beyond a rando. You just sub randoed. That's the dopest of dope randos. Seriously, that is incredible. You know, King, King gets a lot of sh*t. He's like. And he's kind of become the political author guy on Twitter, but doing drugs, man. I know get on straight start noticing sh*t But he really is a force and he really is a he's a cultural icon that you cannot you cannot graze over him That is one of the coolest stories.

I've heard about him. There was another story I heard about King was shopping and he lives in Maine. That's why so many of his I think he lives in Bangor or whatever, but He was shopping and a woman walked up to him And I hope I remember this story correctly from the podcast Uh, I think this was from the Now Playing podcast I want to give them credit He was shopping and the woman walks up to him He's an icon in Maine, everybody knows he lives there And she walks up to him, she's like I know who you are, you're the guy that writes those horrible movies And he's like, he's like, they're so vile.

I just, I hate them. I wish, I wish you would write something like the Shawshank Redemption. You know, that's a movie, you know, that is a movie. Wow. And he's like, ma'am, I did write that. She's like, no, you didn't. And she doesn't believe him, but he's just talking about the, the breadth of his work. Yeah, it's well, that's what something I feel like everyone forgets about Stephen King is how his greatest works are not horror Related at all.

I agree I mean some of it, you know, but the Shining obviously people hold that in really high regard. Kubrick made it better than his book Yeah, that's my point of view It usually takes a guy like Kubrick to do a movie like that But most of Stephen King's best stuff that people really love I'm not even sure most people are aware That he was, had anything to do with it.

There were some television shows, too, that were really good that were influenced by his works and stuff like that that aren't horror related that are Cause he, you know, like he said, he delves a lot into like the spiritual stuff and the mystical stuff and telepathy and all that insanity, but like, I mean, even, you know, Dark Tower was not horror.

Yeah, that was like fantasy. That was like interdimensional travel weirdness. That was fantasy for him, right? Oh, yeah. Fantasy, like American fantasy kind of sh*t. And The Stand is like a, is almost like a Yeah, dude, The Stand. It's got four elements. But it's, it's definitely like more of a, a post apocalyptic epic.

Yeah. Yeah. And so he, when, that's my, uh, that's probably my third favorite book of his. So. That was an amazing rando, and thank you again now playing for that story, my favorite movie podcast. Rob Reiner, who, uh, interestingly enough, like, after he started doing Stephen King adaptations, he named his production company Castle Rock after a Stephen King novel.

So that's why that little Castle Rock thing. Oh, that's cool. That's because of Stephen King. He had conjured up a lot of stars for this movie. Tom Cruise, Harrison Ford, and then Tom Hanks, who, who wanted to do this. He loved the story, but he just was in that little movie called Forrest Gump, which did okay.

Did alright for itself. But Reiner had, had mustered up a lot. And then there's the whole, the whole thing with Red being white in the book, and they were entertaining white actors to play Red. And they didn't really know what to do because they didn't know if they were settled on Robbins yet. So they didn't know who they wanted him to play, who to play as counterpart.

So there was a lot of back and forth before they decided to go with that pairing. So, but boy, did they knock it out of the park. I think it could have been good without those two. Another looking at Harrison Ford for Red, which I love Harrison Ford. So I think he, it would have been a completely different thing, but I think it would have been great.

Another look at Costner for Dufresne. They did look at Costner. Which I, I, I feel like there's a believability there. That could've worked. Just would've been different. It all worked out the way it was supposed to. Doesn't it feel like, is Tom Cruise the actor in this podcast that we've uncovered was attached to almost the most movies?

Tom Cruise is the one where I'm like, I don't think I would've liked that. I don't think so. He's too intense. He's also too good looking. I kinda liked the, like, yeah, you had to believe that a wife would cheat on, like, who, what, who's gonna cheat on Tom Cruise? Well, yeah, oh, I mean, also With that run, with that really jagged run.

Yeah, Robbins is just a really average looking guy. He's just weird enough and lanky enough to be kind of a doofus, and you believe that he's kind of a math nerd, and like, it just, it totally works. Yeah, you buy him as, like, an executive at a, at a bank, for sure. Like, in the real world. It feels like every other movie we, talk about on this podcast, like Tom Cruise was a casting possibility.

Dude, I mean He was the hottest thing back in the 90s, I'm sure everybody goes after him. I think people forget how f*cking larger than life that guy was in the 90s. Like he was so in the ether, everyone talked about Tom Cruise in the 90s. Like old, young, and in between, like he was in movies that kids saw that kids shouldn't have seen.

And yeah, he was everywhere And Top Gun destroyed the world. All the time. It was crazy. This is crazy. This shows how old Morgan Freeman was. So his mugshot, I love that moment, by the way, when they show his mugshot when he was first put in prison. That picture was of his oldest son, Alfonso. Oh, no way! That was Morgan Freeman's oldest son.

Wow. Yeah, so he was old enough to have a son that looked like a grown man at the time. Young Morgan Freeman. Yeah, right? Dang. Um. Isn't Morgan Freeman one of those Hollywood late bloomers? Like, didn't he not get into acting until he was like in his late 40s or something? I think he was 45 or something like that.

How old is he? Oh, now he's 86. Yeah, I think 48 or something. 46, something like that was like his. First leading role. That's kind of cool. This ran might lead to some discussion, but you know, originally Deon wanted the ending to be open-ended. He didn't want the idea. It was Riner who kind of pushed for that, that re that, that uh, uniting to happen at the end.

But Deon wanted the end, I think, to be when he's on the bus, hoping that DEFRA is, is on the island. Yeah, I can see how that scene conceptually before shooting it could have felt cheesy. Like, really, he's gonna run down the beach and hug. Like, can't we just like play and he just happens to be there.

Sending a boat. Yeah, but uh, you know, they pulled it off. It looks great. And then they hit you with the in memory of alan green It's like whoa. Hey, why do I give a sh*t? That was frank darabond's first agent. Actually. Yeah, I actually saw that but that's yeah, it was like I know they didn't wait long enough Yeah, you hadn't decompressed emotional from how like intense that last 30 minutes of that movie was to then be like Slapped with a name you didn't recognize and be like, I get the tribute and all, but like what, you know, This isn't a sitcom.

It almost called for like a, like, I don't know, one of those, like, so and so lived out his days doing such and such, you know, and then it like, it gives a rundown of each character. So and so, this character was released after, you know, I don't know. Cause you're not even done hugging and Alan Green's name Cuz you know how fast the credits are in sitcoms?

Like Seinfeld, it's like 12 seconds of And then it's like, in memory, if someone died, like and they did this often cuz the show ran so long, like someone died, like, in memory of blah blah blah, and it was very fast and it was like, f*ck You by Castle Rock! And it was like, really bad. Like, that's what this felt like it was like, we're like, still reeling, and it's like IT'S IN MEMORY OF ALL THE DREAMS!

Totally, dude! I just finished, I watched the last 30 minutes of that movie last night. night. It was, I was just reveling or trying to in the end of this movie, like, Oh, so this is as good as I remember. What a wonderful film. But in memory of Alan Green, exactly. That was like, was, was he the real guy from the Shawshank?

Is Start to wonder, was this real? Then the documentary comes out, the Alan Green story, Shawshank Redemption. Alan Green was an agent, and you're like, oh, that's different. Okay, cool. Putting the final shank in these randos, um, for Shawshank Redemption. This is where Freeman's legendary voice, we don't even have to go, everyone listening to this knows.

How Legendary's Voices is started here, but funny enough, he recorded the entire voiceover for that movie before they ever filmed a scene, did it in less than an hour, but they threw it all out because Phil wasn't there. The audio quality, I don't know how this happens in Hollywood, but the audio quality was apparently horrible and they couldn't keep it, so he had to redo it all.

Here's a f*cking surprise. But, showing his amazing voiceover chops very early at 45. This is the best narration ever. It is the least. Pulls you out of the story, probably ever. Like, you know, some narrations, you're like, I know we need this to move the plot along, but it feels really clunky. There was nothing about that movie from start to finish that felt clunky.

It felt very complementary to what was happening. It didn't feel like they didn't know how to show us, so they needed like, uh, let's tell them a narration. You know what I mean? Sometimes narration can be like, oh, they didn't want to show us, so they just took the cheap way. Well, it was like this juxtaposition of like, I think it had, a lot of it had to do with the fact that it was Morgan Freeman, and he just has the most.

Iconic soothing, but tension filled kind of voice for narration and this is what did that right? Yeah This is what started that against the scenes that he would often be narrating. There was always this Yeah, i'm, sorry. No, he was almost always narrating over a really horrifying scene It was this peaceful calm and like and the sisters found it and he's getting his ass kicked and morgan freeman's just Calmly narrating the first two years were the hardest for him Yeah, did the scene when they're on the roof drinking beers and he's like and we sat there in the Sun and drink like free men It's like you're just like so poetic and beautiful a cold beer sounds good It's definitely top five to answer your question My favorite though narration is the so Darabont pulled the idea to do the narration from Goodfellas.

That's what inspired Oh another good one, which is my favorite narration But the reason is probably so good is because that narration is so good That's what inspired the idea. Goodfellas was like a year before that Ninety two, I think. Can you imagine if this movie wasn't narrated by Freeman? Does that change his career?

Like, if they don't go that route? Does, if, is he just a guy? Yeah, if it's narrated by like Billy Bob Thornton or something. I think he finds his path. Because he did Seven, like, the next year, right? Seven was pretty awesome. Yeah, his career, he probably would have done okay regardless. Imagine if it was Billy Bob Thornton.

And then Bruce Almighty, I mean. I mean, seriously, I mean, God, he played God. Wow! I mean, the dude played God. Yeah, or if you're from Massachusetts, Gad. Um. Gad. I worship Gad. You worship God. I worship Gad. Gadd is my saviour, Gadd. Alright, on to the Green Mile, the Green Randos. We're gonna do a mile of randos here.

Michael Clarke Duncan's story, his very meteoric journey to becoming an actor, he was a bodyguard for celebrities. He does, you guys are gonna love this, especially you with your Armageddon love. He does Armageddon, you know, he's just the big strong guy in that. His whole career was being a celebrity bodyguard.

Bruce Willis found out, I guess he, I don't know if he liked the Green Mile book or what, but he found out it was in development. He calls Darabont and says, He's like, I heard you're doing The Green Mile. It's like, well, my friend, Michael Clark Duncan, is John Coffey, and you have to hire him. Wow. Yeah, so it was Bruce Willis who made that happen, but he did say he probably will need some acting classes.

He was not insulting, he's just like, he's been a bodyguard. He's not an actor, like, okay, if he was in Armageddon, arguably isn't a real movie. Not, yeah, not challenging work. You know, Liv Tyler stole the show. Um, but uh, it's really good. I think it's interesting that he had to take acting classes right before, and I think he, I think he does great.

He plays John Coffey. If you read the book, like, it feels very real. But yeah, anyway, we already talked about this, but the way they made up for the height difference, they needed him to be nine inches taller, so some scenes he's walking on boxes or standing on boxes while people aren't. CGI though, so that, that's how they made him look.

Interesting. Nine inches taller. He's several actors were taller, but none were as big, not as muscular, big main. And there's another rando I'll just go and get to it now. A lot of the actors actually let themselves go. So whereas he's like got, you know, garden hose veins in his arm, Tom Hanks, Bonnie Hunt, Bonnie Hunt, I think gained 15 pounds.

A lot of the actors gain weight to kind of, I don't know why, I guess people looked chubby then. I kind of don't think that naturally, but I guess. We're gonna look chubby here. Yeah, I guess. So, Tom, so they all like, Tom Hanks put on a ton of weight. I think he put on like 20 or 30 pounds and, um, yeah. So, that's, uh, and Tom Hanks.

So, another rando here about Tom Hanks. He was supposed to play his older self. They tried it. Makeup looked Oh, with the makeup. Yeah. Makeup looked horrible. But, they got a guy that kind of sounded and looked They pulled it off. And I actually I was wondering if he did the voiceover. I'm like, is, is this a different actor, but Tom is doing the voice of an older, trying to sound older?

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Cause it did kind of sound like him, and he was believable enough to look like he could, that's what Tom Hanks would look like in 40 years. Yeah. I liked him, and obviously that performance made me sob in my horrible state, so he did something right. But again, I just, I needed more, we've moved on a green mile.

Yeah, so I, I just needed more information as to why the supernatural stuff. Where did that come from? Where did you get this? It's just kind of like, it's just sort of something we're just handed. Is he God? Is he magic? Is he, uh, yeah. And then, yeah. And you kind of have to figure out for your own, like why Mr.

Jingles got infected. What I read and I had to did some research on this. He infected them with life and I guess he infected Mr. Jingles with life and infected, uh, Paul with life. So did he do that every time he shook anyone's hand? Is it something he did with his mind? Just when he was having his moments.

I just have questions. I guess. I don't know. You're right. Like, yeah, I kept waiting for the end to present. Like when they brought him in to electrocute him, like the parents were going to storm in because they had found some sort of evidence that proved that it was the other dude and not, you know, I thought there was going to be some sort of like explanation as to why John Coffey was there with.

Those girls in the woods any like to begin with like it just felt like there was like some answered questions Yeah, and what's interesting is tying it back to your original point with three hours on the clock the stuff They chose you need to tie everything up in three hours The open ended stuff they left and the stuff they chose like we spend way too much time with some characters Especially Dell who I think is a great character, but I just got way too much Dell in the mouth And instead He was there a lot.

Like a lot. A lot of Del. And at first the Cajun thing was endearing, and then I was like, Okay, I don't need no more French Cajun. I had to watch that movie with subtitles. Yeah. Like, I had to. Oh yeah. There were moments where it was like, You don't even know it, Delacroix! And you're like, I don't f*cking know what you just said, buddy.

I watch every movie with subtitles for that reason, because I just miss And this is where, where a little bit of malpractice does go to Darabont. He really was trying, he really for whatever reason was very faithful to the material here. Was very faithful. God, yeah. Somebody's been watching the Green Mile too much.

The Green Mile! By the way, that guy was amazing. Walkin a great mile, gonna take a sh*t, da da da. The janitor. But he wanted to be very faithful to the material. I think one of the reasons that we get a lot of Del, cause one of the titles in one of the novella entries, like, I don't know if it was four or five, is, was entitled The Death.

What's his full name? Delacroix, uh, which is Oh, Eduardo Delacroix. Yeah, is the death of Delacroix. Like the whole, that's the name of the entry. So like there is a whole, like that was an actual Interesting. So it was very much emphasized. And again, King did not have this completed when he started releasing them.

He was writing them, releasing them, then he would write another one. So he was kind of making it up as Thrones style. Which I give him credit. And dude, King, another reason I think he gets credit, he's constantly challenging himself as a writer. The whole Richard Bachman thing. He didn't think, he thought he was a fluke.

He didn't think he could re Changes his pen name to Richard Bachman. Writes The Running Man, our movie with Arnold. He writes Children of the Corn. Like, he's a freak. That is really, really wild. That he's able to kind of just be that, that diverse. Yeah, and that prolific. And they're still making movies and TV.

So this is really interesting. We talked about this a little bit. The Green Mile at the time was, and may still be, Stephen King's highest grossing adaptation ever. 286 million. Four times more than the Shawshank Redemption. Shawshank Redemption a lot like, uh, we talked about with Boondock. It found life on cable.

I think it was TNT played over and over again. Rentals found life there and there, so that's where it became. Well, let's be clear. The Green Mile rans? What, what, what's the expression? Oh, Shawshank Redemption walked so that the Green Mile could run. The Green Mile is also more interesting from a marketing perspective.

Like, I feel like that's a much easier movie to market because it's got so much really interesting imagery. I mean, the title's really interesting. PAUSE IT! It helps that Tom Hanks is like the biggest star on the planet. Well, that, yeah. And at the time, who, who's Morgan Freeman? And who's Tim Robbins? You could tell he was a comedic actor.

Tim Robbins had been in Top Gun and stuff, but he wasn't like the guy. But like to me, Shawshank is like, and it's port, no, you're right. The hole is greater than the sum of its parts kind of thing. Meanwhile, like in Green Mile, the individual parts are greater than the whole. versus Shawshank, where the whole is greater than the part.

So anyway, I feel like it's a lot easier to cherry pick interesting tidbits from Green Mile and make really compelling trailers and marketing out of that. Whereas like, if you think about Shawshank, I feel like that'd be a kind of a tough movie to market without blowing the entire story. 100%. kind of weird.

Bad name. Bad name. The title's kind of weird. Shawshank Redemption. That doesn't roll off the tongue. It's not a Totally agree. Yeah. And you also, I don't, I wanted to know more about Paul Edgecombe's, uh, past. You know Brutal Those guys cause they, they, they like felt like good characters And I feel like if we were gonna cut movie out or reassign those minutes in the movie like get the note like they were Really they were quality more time with Brutal less time with Delacroix I wanna know why he's called that like you know, and that's what another God.

I love green mile I'm not trying to sh*t on it, but like the prisoners in Shawshank. I feel like Sadler's character, like, I felt like I was developing relationships with these guys. Like, I felt like I understood their struggles and like, I was in it with them, you know, which is pretty mild. Yeah. And all the like weaving bits about him, like in Hank Williams, yeah.

Like you got to know them just enough to be attached. And lastly, so we've talked about how these feel like copy and paste thematically, right? Prisons, Darabont, King, almost all the same actors. Well, here's at the acting, production, composing level, how similar these movies are Darabont and 94 put these actors in.

Cast members and, uh, crew members in The Green Mile. Jeffrey DeMunn, William Sadler, Mac Miles, Brian Libby, the actors, composer Thomas Newman, editor Richard Francis Bruce edited both movies, and set director Michael Ceritone was the second. Wow. So, a lot of copy and paste. That's interesting. Yeah, at the crew level.

He had his guys. Yeah. Which, that's probably the case. Martin Scorsese has a lot of the same guys. Christopher Nolan. But his movies Nevermind. That's a moot. Moot, moog, moog. Moot point, to cow's opinion. Moot point. That's a milk point. Doesn't matter. Shall we sit in the electric chair? Oh my god. Shall we?

Strap yourselves in, boys! Should we get a wet towel and put it on our head? Walk into podcast. Walk into Green Podcast. I didn't know it was supposed to be wet. Oh. f*ck you! Top Bill, Cow! Top Bill, man! We are in the Green Mile! We in prison, baby! This goes without saying, but Shoshank Redemption, Tim Robbins, and Morgan Freeman, or Tom Hanks, and Michael Clark Duncan.

Which, I think you could make the case That Morgan Freeman was more the lead than Tim Robbins. I think Tim was probably in more scenes, but Tim Robbins was the protagonist. You're experiencing the whole movie through Morgan Freeman's eyes. There's something about Morgan Freeman being one of the main actors and the narrator.

Like, I think of the Sandlot. Like, yes, one of the characters was the narrator, but it was the adult version. You're not hearing the kid narrate. Like, you don't really care about the adult version of that. kid actor. And so you're not really attached. So you don't really think that the narrator is in the movie, but because Morgan Freeman is both talking the whole time and in the movie, it's like a lot of Morgan Freeman going on.

I think Tim Robbins character is the protagonist, but Morgan Freeman's the lead. You know what I mean? Yeah. I don't think they knew. I don't think they knew until the movie was over what that was going to look like. Well, there was no story. Typical film format here. I mean it did not it just did not play like a three act movie It was just i'll kick off here another knockout performance for hanks throughout this podcast.

I've become a hanks fan Although he's also a pain in my ass because we had a bunch of people give us negative reviews because I wouldn't say that He was a pedophile For that reason I hate him because these people like you're talking about a pedophile and they like review bombed us on spotify socially judge the guy for a bunch of unsubstantiated rumors.

That's, that's what all good people do these days. Just here's a PSA for everybody. If you think you know something about someone, but have no actual evidence, you should spread that around everywhere. Everywhere. And tarnish that person's reputation. Then get mad when others don't do it. Cause that's the right thing to do.

Cause we talk about movies. Yeah. But that aside, I joke. I have become a Hanks fan. Kind of like how you become a Defoe fan over the course of this. I have really just grown. Fans. Fans. He's a da fan. Fan. I'm a Willem da fan. I'm a Willem da fan. But, Hanks does a great job, and I think Michael Clarke Duncan does a good job.

This is really close for me. I do go Shawshank because there is a natural relationship that they portray. It feels very real. I feel like it's developed. Morgan Freeman's I don't know if you guys agree, but where he starts to lose hope and like you start to realize that he's just become hopeless and it's starting to, that disparity between Dufresne's crazy hope and crazy like vigor for escaping and his plans against Morgan Freeman's losing hope.

That's where the movie really took off for me, because like, I wanted Red, like, I wanted him to get out, like, I was Dufresne, I like maybe this is where it comes in where Morgan really was the main actor, because I wanted so badly for Red to experience freedom. He's paid his time, he keeps going in to get parole, they keep rejecting him, and I just was cheering so hard, so I I think there was more substance there for me, and that substance was that rub between Dufresne's relentless hope and Morgan Freeman's lacking and losing hope, you know, becoming hopeless.

So that, to me, wins it. It's just because it was just philosophically very thick for me. Yeah, I mean, I think all four of these people delivered rock solid performance. Standalone, I don't think there was a missed beat from any of them. I mean, they were all stellar. I think the chemistry between Robbins and Freeman.

was a little bit more believable as a relationship. I didn't feel, I felt like when Coffey and, forgive me, Hank's character were interacting that there were, kind of felt like there were two characters acting with each other a little more so than Freeman and, and Robin. So I think I have to go Shawshank, and part of that may have been because of what they were handed.

I mean, I think that's just. Endless quotes from Shawshank and even like the little banter and the side notes and the the jokes and stuff just really hit and played Great. So a lot of it was the words that they had to say but yeah, I'll go shawshank amazing Filski, I go shawshank also main reason the acting of the two lead guys in that movie check A lot of my boxes for what qualifies as a really incredible performance and like I think a lot of times you'll look at a movie like Shawshank and be like wow that movie was so emotional from start to finish like good bad or otherwise and movies aren't emotional without the lead actor selling that emotion.

I mean acting in that way I'd imagine would be really hard because it's one thing to like read lines and do it convincingly and like put the emotion and the effort into your voice and your body language and all that but I feel like truly like transcendent actors especially like Morgan Freeman.

display it in their eyes and the micro expressions on their face like they have such control or it's either they have such control or they're able to like live that emotion so thoroughly on set and get so into character that like it's those like I was saying little micro expressions that like sell the bigger performance and that's.

all over Shawshank from top to bottom in both Tim Robbins and Morgan Freeman's portrayals of those characters. Some of my favorite moments in Shawshank are like when Morgan Freeman goes to the guys at the table at lunch or whatever and starts talking about how he's really worried about Andy and dude, he looks worried.

He's not like acting like a worried guy. He looks f*cking worried, like for real in real life. And then when he's Andy on the beach, like at the end, the look of happiness in his face was a pure look of happiness. Like, had you seen that in real life, you'd have been like, Oh, that guy is over the moon about something.

Like it was just all very convincingly portrayed by the Shawshank crew. Whereas like in Green Mile, I felt like Michael Clarke Duncan really brought that because he, he did the childlike thing really well. And that was really convincing and heart wrenching. But that was about it for me and Green Mile. So I go, shoosh.

God, both of you gave such fantastic answers. You know what scene it was for me? You brought this to my mind. Is when Red's working in the grocery store. And he's asking permission to go to the bathroom. Oh my gosh, dude. He looks confused, unsettled. And like, I was so like, just Been asking to pee for 40 years.

Can't squeeze out a drop without it. That, that actually hit me harder than anything in the movie. Like that, I know it was a little moment, but I was like, my God, like, I can't. It was a little snapshot of an everyday life moment that kind of. gave you the perspective that he was carrying. I was like, instantly I saw that scene in his face.

I was like, I just can't imagine. It's in his face because I feel like I just can't imagine that situation. He could have overplayed that part and like, walked in with the shoulders down and like, oh boss, can I, you know, but it was like, he walked over there like a man, but you could see in his face like this trepidation and that's, that's great acting to me because that's real life.

Nobody's emotions are really on their sleeve as much as some actors portray them to be like. It's all in the eyes and the body language and stuff and Morgan Freeman just. Nails that. Nominated for an Oscar. Didn't win. It was a tough year, though. It was a tough year. He should not have gotten beaten, though.

Tell me who won. Oh, God. Was it, uh, Michael Caine? Oh, ah. Supporting Gary Sinise? No. You'd be devastated. It's not even a movie. You've probably even seen. Okay. I looked it up, but I don't remember what it was. Remind me. It was I don't, I don't remember. It was not a movie that, that's how insignificant that sh*t was.

You were too, too busy Willem, Willem Dafanning over there to, to actually pull up the movie. Now I'm curious. Supporting cast! Man, supporting cast! It's one to zero, holy sh*t! Shawshank Redemption, we've got Bob Gunton as the warden, William Sadler as Haywood, Clancy Brown, Gil Bellows. And like you mentioned, a bunch of these guys already.

Mark Rolston, James Whitmore, Jeffrey DeMond, Larry Brandenburg, Brian LeBee. I don't know, I never know when to stop this category. Uh, The Green Mile, David Morse, Bonnie Hunt, James Cromwell, Michael Jeter, Graham Green, Doug Hutchison, Sam Rockwell. Earlier I said that I didn't want as much from Tom Hanks and his wife.

Bonnie Hunt. I, I stand by that from a storytelling standpoint. Also, I did find the two of them as an extremely believable married couple. Very lovely. They feel like they're a good match and they could easily be married in real life. And Bonnie Hunt, I'm not gonna say she's one of my favorite actresses, like, but when she popped up in Jerry Maguire and She's great.

She always pops up and like, brings it. Phil, would you like to go first this time? I wasn't paying attention because I was looking this up and I can't find it. Kyle, supporting cast! Your thoughts? Here's, here's what I'm struggling with. In Shawshank, I connected so hard with all the prisoners. Like, you almost forget that they're probably all rapists and murderers.

Like, you know, it's like, I'm like in their lives. But standout performances. I can't remember where this. Well, but Sam Rockwell, he was special. He is a fantastic. Have you guys seen Moon? Yes. I love Moon. Oh my God. He's the only actor and he plays himself twice because he's an incredible film. Yeah. Have you ever seen him in Iron Man 2?

Yeah. I loved him in Iron Man 2. I don't know that I've seen. do amazing. Like, I think Rockwell is so underrated. Agreed. And he comes into this movie, a movie that's got a tone established because it's so long and we're, we're just so familiar, and he shakes it up in a big way. As much as I think we got too much Percy, um, it's Hutcheson who plays Percy, right?

I think we do get too much Percy, but God, this is, that's the, and this is the biggest theme you read when you talk to people about Green Mile. God, did I hate That guy that played Percy. Usually, I fault people for like, talking about the actor, not the character. Like, the actor's not Percy Whitmore. But in this situation, I get it.

People vehemently hate Hutchison for his portrayal because he's such an entitled Cross soul. sociopath of a brat. I actually do go Green Mile here. It's hard because I did connect, but some, some of those minor performances in Green Mile did stick out, namely Rockwell for me. So, I do go Green Mile. This is tough.

That was a tough one. It is tough. I'll go Shawshank because, Strictly because of the group of guys. I feel like, like I said earlier, the banter, the camaraderie, you felt like you get, you kind of got to know them as a cluster of buddies that ate lunch together every day. Brooks, and even like, to kind of the same point that you just made about Rockwell, how I felt about the sisters, I thought, like, they made you hate them, the warden made you hate them, Clancy Brown's character, the, I guess, the main guard or whatever his role was, made you hate him, like, They just, gosh, they just all of them, all of them were throwing heat.

So I'm going to say Shawshank for that reason, but it's tough, man. Green Mile also was fantastic. Yeah, that is a tough one once again, because the warden is one of my, uh, favorite villain portrayals ever. Like he does. In Shawshank. Yeah. He does the pious thing juxtaposed against his just gaping assholery really well.

And you know what's genius about his portrayal of that situation is he never feels like a different person when he's in either, either setting, like when he's doing the Bible thing and when he's doing the like, I'm a greedy asshole, uh, who's going to ruin your life thing. He feels very much like the same person.

And it's pretty interesting. Like he's, I don't know that I've ever seen anybody toe that line as cleanly as he did. Like. That guy felt real. However, I'm gonna go Green Mile because as much as I wish they had spent more time on the Tom Hanks, Michael Clarke Duncan relationship so that there was a little more weight to when his execution time comes around, when they did choose to spend time on the supporting cast, which was a huge chunk of the movie, I thought all those guys just killed it, man.

Like, Sam Rockwell was a total lunatic. Uh, Delacroix was He was hard to watch, too, because he was just this, like, swamp, hillbilly motherf*cker, like, and he played it so well, and Percy, and Brutal, and all those guys, that that was a good supporting cast, and honestly, they really made that film. Like, Shawshank was not made by the supporting cast, that was all Morgan Freeman and Tim Robbins.

And supporting cast was incredible. But without the supporting cast and Green Mile, I don't know that that movie plays. So I'm gonna go GM. Well, the Phil, the Phil Mile. We got a tie going here. Our film to the aisle. That was a great question that Shawshank Redemption is asking the Green Miles. Can it do a five minute mile?

And right now it's tied. So we'll have to find out. Next P. E. class. Remember P. E. when at the beginning you would run as slow as possible? So at the last class of P. E. during school, you would, you would run faster and beat it by 10 seconds. Or is that just me? Because I'm a fat ass. I don't know about this. I don't know about this.

You had two PE classes? I was homeschooled. I don't know. This is an Arkansas thing. You know, after you drink like 12 sodas. Code Red! Alright, here we go! Code Red! Code Red! My God. Everyone drink Code Red. Was Code Red like cocaine to you guys? I remember drinking Code Red, dude. Like that sh*t was crazy. Code Red.

That was so Like, thinking about all the sugar, caffeine, and dye, and that alone, just is enough to kill a child. As if Mountain Dew Isn't a terrifying enough beverage. They were like, how about this one with red 40 in it? The worst die ever made. That's the one that's associated with dementia. Just because we want our food to be a certain color.

Gatorade guys. Come on. Yeah.: 2024

He goes, you ever think about how Zevia is clear? I'm like, yeah, I, I've noticed it. He is like, he's like, why is Coke Brown? He goes, why is green? He goes, why is Mountain de Green? I was like, that's a really good question. He is like, it doesn't have to be, they just decided to put it in there. He's like, zero.

He's like, Coke, clear , you know? Yeah. Are, are Dr. Z yet? It's all clear. It's all clear. Shout out to Xevia. Yeah. Go support the Xevia people. When he asked me that, I was like, that's a really good question. Why is Coke Brown? You know, it's for no reason. No reason. We have two very different, but mean for different reasons, prison guards here with Percy and Hadley and Shawshank, so, line it up however you want to, you know, most ferocious, but which one, which one's the more, I don't know how you want to say it, prison guard y or more angry or violent or worst?

The one that's the worst wins, how about that? The one that you fear the most? How about this? The prison guard that you fear the most. How about this? Okay, okay, okay, they f*ck you in the drive thru. That's what it was. It was so petty. Okay, I get it. I get it. I think that Percy was mostly bark and not as much bite.

I mean, he heard the mouse and that was a dick move. But Clancy Brown, what's his name again? Hadley? Hadley. Literally only He killed people or sent them, like, to drink out of a straw for the rest of their life. Everybody he laid a finger on. That was a bad man. I mean, think about it. He killed the fat ass.

On accident. He shot people. He shot the, uh, Tommy. And then he destroyed the lead sister and sent him on his way. I mean, dude really did some damage. He was as much of a henchman as he was. He was totally like the warden's crony. Yeah, the line between him and the people he was guarding was non existent.

Like, it was a badge. That was it. They were the same person. He was a brutal asshole, given the authority by the state to be a brutal asshole. And these guys just were brutal assholes in other ways, and he happened to be above them. But yeah, all that to say, I go Hadley as well. What a, that guy was, he was truly terrifying, and the guy who played him got that across.

Like, he had that militant, evil look to him. That jaw structure, that square, he has square cheeks. I go, I do go Percy here, and I, I love the analysis of him as a henchman. Um, I go Percy because probably, You, that was your analysis. What? Henchman. Oh, it was. I forget who said that. Who ever said he was the henchman?

Somebody said he was a henchman. I feel like I just put a word on what Drew described perfectly. I just put a word on it. You labelled it. I labelled it. I'm a labeller. I'm an enabler. I've enabled you guys to talk into these microphones. But no, I do go personal. And I think it's a personal thing. A personal thing?

A personal thing. There's nothing more to say. Disgusting than a name dropping entitled brat. Do you know who my father is? I've known these people I've met these people when they turn out to also be sociopaths like he really made me ill. And his name was f*cking Percy. Wetmore. Wetmore or Wetmore? Wetmore.

Wetmore. Because remember Delacroix at one point goes, Wetmore's a perfect name for you, y'all wettin your pants! Dude, he was I think the things that they had Hadley do were more, I guess you could say, structured, I guess you could say? Yes, he was militant. He had a more brute nature to him, whereas all of the stuff that Percy did was so sociopathic and unhinged.

Like, just having to kill Jingles, the sponge, like, that was And then the fact that he couldn't stand to see his own disturbing work. Well, he was a pussy ass little bitch. Yeah. It all just adds up. Yes, like, obviously, uh, Hadley would kick his ass. But, I just, that's not a person you want to be on a boat with.

Like, if you had to be trapped on a, like a, on a desert island with three people and one of them's Percy, like, that is gonna be a miserable existence. He's very cruel, vindictive. Cruel, the cruelty of him. At least there was a systematic thing with Hadley. At least. He only systematically beat the sh*t out of people.

Yeah, systematically killed. You know, he's part of a system, you know. Well, you get the idea that Hadley, well, Hadley did help people when it also helped him. You know what I mean? Like, he used, he gave. Robbins and opportunity or defraying an opportunity when it meant that he would, he would help him with his taxes.

You get this sense that Percy, even if it helped him, he would find a way to like spite himself if it also hurt you. Totally. Yeah. It was that kind of personality. I kind of love that him letting defraying set up his, um, trust, bit him in the ass so hard. Oh, that whole plot. We haven't, we didn't even talk about that, but the whole way he set up the, you know, just how he's like, I was, I was on the straight and narrow until I came to prison and then I became a criminal.

Once I got that quote, but the whole Premise of him laundering the money and directing it to himself eventually when he eventually got out like just genius Yeah, the the ending for these two characters is another factor for me I do I do kind of love one of the few twists that did exist in the green miles when when Coffee holds on to the to the evil black flies or sludge or whatever.

He spits out whenever he does a miracle He held on to it just just to give it to Percy. Yeah, just so he could pay bill back That was one of the few deviations from the story that I, that happened, and that was a really good one. So, when you look at their fates as well, I love that fate. Because I, you know, murder rape of young girls, like, I just, whoever did it, the whole movie, I'm just like, whoever did it, die, you know?

So that's a good question though, we didn't talk about this. Did he, did Coffey know when he gave that birth? to Michael Clarke Duncan touches somebody, he can also share images, and Percy was so evil when he gave him that, Percy also saw that this guy was the one who killed the girls. So he was like, I'm going to take this guy out, so this guy stays in jail forever.

Yeah, but he also stays on death row. I think it was like a weird. Oh, you know what I'm saying? I was going to say, I almost saw that as a redemption for Percy. No, you're saying it was the other. I think it was him. Just his last evil thing was killing this guy. So there was no chance. That John Coffey could ever get out of jail.

Ah, see I took it as once he knew, even Percy had some sort of like, line. Morally. Man, to me I read it completely opposite. Where he's like, like he's a horrible person but when he saw that he raped little girls he's like, no, f*ck this guy. Wow, we all three have different readings. My reading is that it was intentional from Coffey.

Coffey knew the whole time he was gonna work it out like that? He wanted to pay Bill back and, but also Percy is petty. Everything Percy does is a reaction. He kills Jingles because when he pissed his pants, Del made fun of him. He wanted to kill Bill. Bill because Bill humiliated him and made him piss his pants.

Everything that Percy does is a reaction out of pettiness, out of revenge for how he's made to look because he is someone's kid. Well then to me the ultimate revenge would be killing the guy who could exonerate you. Yeah, well to me it was killing the Like that's what I thought was going on there. I was like, Oh, he gave him, he saw the thing and he just went and capped that motherf*cker.

That's funny. We half agree. So I think you killed him. And we half agree. Yeah, it's so funny. It's like, it's like a triangle. I think FRANK! Well, what was that about, Frank? I think he killed him, not to exonerate, but I think he killed him because it was the final act of pettiness before he went into deep insanity.

He made him piss in his pants in front of everyone. He considers himself a man of status because of who his parents are. And this man made him piss his pants, so with that evil inside of him, his final petty act was to kill that guy. That was my read. Interesting. This speaks to the movie, though. And I thought it was them throwing him like a It's like a, even this guy has a compass, like a moral boundary where he wouldn't cross.

Does this speak to how intelligent we are or how poorly written the knowledge aspect of the movie is? I actually think it is. Maybe that's what the movie wants us to do, is just pull it apart. All three of, but all three of these are viable and really excellent analysis, I think. Like I think we're all making viable points here.

Like none of these are weird. These are like Phil's beloved. What do you think, listeners? Drop a comment. Let us know. Why? Yeah, these aren't like Phil's beloved fan theories. Yes, and also make sure you, uh, look up what that actually meant first, so then you can, you know, pretend like you don't have Google and be like, Well, the whole time I actually knew this.

Yeah, drop a link. Oh God, that's a whole other podcast, this society we live in. All right. Why don't we call comments, comments? Like, it's just people just **zzing all over the place. Like, I have opinions. Yes. **zz everywhere. This is great cigar talk. I was thinking about this the other day. Keyboard warriors.

I know, like, we've given people opportunities. We used to just walk around, and if we saw something we didn't like, we just didn't have an avenue to, like, express that. Now, if I see, like, a picture of a movie I don't from a movie, or Yeah, yeah, you can type in, That's the dumbest thing I've ever seen. Just coming all over.

I was actually thinking about this, too. Like, the whole the comment section as a whole is crazy. Like, how long until Netflix has a comment section? I think it's the worst thing ever, and it should be turned off worldwide. Everybody getting commenting on sh*t. No one f*cking cares. Half the time I'll see a post or something online and then I'll think, Oh, I bet somebody is offended by that.

Or I bet someone think would like, oh, this is something. And so I'll just go to the comments and see, and sure enough, it's the most, it's like the human species is incredibly predictable, predictable. Like if you give somebody an opportunity to even think they're right, they're going to make sure they tell you, Oh my God, like you can see a steak thing.

And then it's like, I'm allergic to pepper, you know? And then it's like, yeah, I'm a vegan. It's like, wow, we all can say a thing. Yeah, I know. Wow. Wow. You know words too? Yeah. That'd be a great bit. We used to just walk around. Now? We don't just walk around. We used to walk around and have manners and keep our f*cking mouths shut when we didn't have something nice to say.

But here we are. That's super strong. Online, just nutting all over everyone's sh*t. This isn't meant to be like the casting category, category, what's with A great drew idea. Who would you least like to sit on a plane next to? I guess the least likable would win 'cause they would be the most deplorable.

Mm-Hmm. . Mm-Hmm. . So the sisters or Bill. So are we sitting next to all of them? Are they like in a, they're a group and we're their section, are they ordering drinks and par? Okay. Yeah, we're in their section. I think I'd rather sit by . This is such a weird category. This is a mind twist. Okay, here's the thing.

Bill's teeth really make me feel like his breath stinks. So I feel like I would not want to be in a close quarters environment with Bill. So I guess that sends me the other direction. I'll just hope that these disgusting, deplorable sisters brush their teeth. Did I handle that okay? Yeah, you did. You handled it well.

They do in between every dick they suck. Oh! Good. Hey, we can't. It's true. That's what they are. They did a lot of that. Every knob that they gobble, they make sure to brush those pearly whites. I would Future Phil! I would probably prefer Definitely. To sit next to the sisters just because I get the vibe like maybe they'd behave themselves in public, but they're also in prison, so they didn't, I don't know.

Um, but they're probably not gonna try to rape someone on a plane. Whereas like, dude, f*cking homeboy Wild Bill. That guy, I would not trust him to keep his cool anywhere at any time. Like, he just looks like he would spit cake on you on a plane. Yeah. And it would stink so bad. There was almost like a mentally ill component.

Oh yeah. He was very, very messed up. Whereas the sisters, obviously, I mean, it's heinous what they're doing, but it It's anus? What did you say? It's anus? Okay. It's like, that's more just like, they, uh, horny for one, and they want to dominate, and they want to be in charge, they want to be a bully, but there's like another layer with Wild Bill that's just like unhinged.

Oh yeah. You never know. I feel like if you sat next to him on a plane, he'd probably try to talk to you the whole time, and when he finally stuck your headphones in, he'd just take his f*cking complimentary coke and just Yeah, and you know what I'm not into that your winner for this category would be bill as in you would not want Oh, yeah.

No, no, I go the same way and here's what I take kind of building on what you both said There is an element with the sisters that it's likely that prison maybe made them that way. Maybe they weren't murderers Maybe they weren't as bad But there are people that just get in the system and they become worse probably the walking dead is all about the people become Horrible, it's not necessarily about the zombies.

It's about the way people treat each other afterwards Darabont Hallmark another dare by But Bill was crazy before prison. And he didn't need prison to throw gasoline on the fire. He was already, I mean, obviously for the horrible, horrible things he did. Take that out of the picture. He is absolutely insane.

Like spitting his own sh*t in someone's face. Oh my god. I mean, that was wild, and the way Rockwell plays it, I mean, yeah, you definitely, like you said, he's pouring coke on your CD player, it's like, no, you're, yeah. He would, yeah, he would have poured your coke into your lap, and then call, hit your call attendant light, and then pretended to be asleep.

That's what he would have done. Oh, totally. It's that kind of guy. He's probably smacking waitresses. And then laughed when she walked away. Smackin booties on waitresses are not the way to do it. And blaming it on you, yeah. It's like, it was him, yeah. Absolutely. Wow, we're tied. That was a great category. It was a good category.

Tied! Two to two. The, uh, Green Mile's getting shanked right now. Not really, it's tied. Uh, let's see. Which prison would you rather be in? If you're, if you guys are, wake up tomorrow and you're convicts and Well, one of them isn't a death row, right? So I guess that one, because it means I'm not gonna be electrocuted.

Yeah, that's true. That's a fair answer. That's a bad end result. Last time I checked. Yeah, you don't want that. I'd rather just have 50 years of stamped rejection than to have my brain fried. Okay. Yeah, that's I mean, it's, you're just trading one evil for another, I guess. I, I, I guess I would say Shawshank just because I, you know, if you kind of stay out of the way of certain people and keep your head down, you might be able to get by there.

Whereas Green Mile or the one in Green Mile, your, your bed's been made, put it that way. It doesn't matter what you do, how good you are. You're f*cked. I took this a different way. There's hope in Shawshank. That's true. Boom! Yep, see? There's hope. That's in line with the movie's themes. Yeah. Wow. Wow, I love it.

I I took this a different way. I I was thinking about how I would assimilate to these different scenarios. I just don't know that I would fit in with the Shawshank guys. I just, I'm trying to imagine my personality in prison. I think the sisters are owning me. It does seem less stressful at Green Mile.

Yeah, you got your own space. And, if you really play it up, you can be perceived as very dangerous. But you also get tricks, you know, we got circus mice, uh, the guards are friendly for the most part, Percy's horrible, but you know, Edgecombe and Brutal But Shawshank, they had baseball out in the field, they watched movies, they had a pretty kick ass library by the end, I mean, eh, it's not so bad.

But if you're Magic, you get to watch a movie in Green Mile, so, well, they watched a movie in I was gonna say, that's what I just said, you really watch the movies? God, Shawshank is better. Shawshank would be better if I could fit in there, but I think I think I can do crazy better than I can be one of the boys, you know what I mean?

So I think I think I would entertain the guards. I think I have a better chance. I would have more clout in the Green Mile It's also pretty I like the pottery barn light bulbs less competition, but the lighting is better I'll give you that way less dungeon feeling. Yeah, and I love Tom Hanks I know it's Paul Edgerton, but I love Tom Hanks.

He'd be a good guard. He'd be a great guard. So yeah, I, it doesn't matter. But that was my approach. I just, uh, I just think I would, I would just do better. I'd, I'd probably impress more people. I'm a people pleaser. I think I'd do better in Green Mile. This is a nice, I love these nice close ones here. All right.

This is, I had to, we had to get into the low hanging fruit here. Always. Darabont prison movie versus Darabont prison movie. We have this category. We have the best Darabont prison formula here. Uh, man, to me, I, I feel like that's a pretty easy layup for Shawshank. Even though they're, they're both trying to tell a story, and the story is the focus, not the prison, necessarily.

The Shawshank thing was more well fleshed out, and, and I feel like the holistic terror of that place, and the people in it, and like the structure itself, and all that, it was very And then the The, uh, the isolation situation, like, he did a good job of showing you just enough prison sh*t to scare you without taking away from the importance of the story.

Whereas, like, the Green Mile, I don't know that that entire situation was completely believable visually. Cause, like, we mentioned earlier, I think you mentioned, Drew, earlier, it felt like really tiny and, like, limited and there were, like, six dudes there. Um, so it was, you didn't get really a holistic picture of what you were dealing with and it kind of, in my opinion, took away from the potential gravity that that story could have had.

Um, so I just go Shawshank. Totally. I feel like the fleshed out nature of the Shawshank prison was a very strong character in the movie in and of itself. Yeah, to kind of riff on the point you just made, I don't think that the Green Mile really felt like a prison movie, if that makes sense. Yeah, there weren't like other prison people really other than those five dudes in the garage.

Yeah. It was like the same, there was no ambiance. It's like prison ambiance, you know, oh, that's a great playlist name, prison ambiance. Prison ambiance. Prison ambiance. The sound of a baton rattling on a cage. Prison vibes. Yeah, I mean, for all the reasons we've already said, I mean, Shawshank, it's like a much tighter story.

More emotionally gripping. It's more grounded to me. Green Mile, just the, the supernatural stuff really lost me. And I don't think that Darabont and maybe it's great in the book or in the novel or whatever, but he, in my opinion, didn't do a good enough job putting it on the big screen with the screenplay.

It's way too long, way too ill paced, not clarifying enough. Shoshing. Love these dancers. So, uh, you guys took the prison angle pretty hard, so I'll, I'll focus on style here with Darabont. I wanna say that Darabont has shown us immense horror chops. He did the remake of The Blob. And if you haven't seen the remake of The Blob, it's one of the most horrific visual movies I've seen.

It's disgusting. Has our boy who played Emil, uh, from RoboCop. He's in it. He's a cop in it. He's hilarious in it. But it's, it's very disgusting. It's a disturbing movie, but it is good horror. Like, if you're a horror fan. When it became time to do some horror in the Green Mile, I do feel like it was understated.

I do think the Dell electric chair scene is the most horrifying scene in the movie. I think it hangs on a bit long though. I don't think it necessarily delivers. Like it's so weird to me that the warden, when he goes downstairs, like he's mad, but then he laughs and cracks up about it. It's like, Oh yeah, wait, Paul Edgecomb cracked a joke.

It was so weird that scene, he cracks a joke and then the warden's like, the guy's like The people are barfing upstairs because they're smelling a man cooked from the inside out and like, they're laughing all of a sudden, like, What is this f*ck up? Ah ha ha ha! Because he was covering for Percy. Yeah, it was.

But the weird, it was weird that he cracked a joke and he laughed. Like, it just felt so weird to me. It was, yeah. Darabont leans so hard into the sentimentality on Green Mile. It was very thick, it laid on thick, whereas I feel like there's so much dynamic storytelling happening in Shawshank, so in terms of his style, I won't compare the prison elements, the style that he has and what he's really good at, he is really good with sentimentality, but it was balanced, it came from different places, it's very laid on thick in the Green Mile, so I do think it's a fully realized Darabont, and the fact that that was his first major film, the fact that King entrusted a college, a film school student with that piece of material.

It's crazy, so I do think it is better fully realized. And there are other great Darabont movies, the Blob remake being one of them. Uh, you know, he's, he has shown some major chops. I just think the Green Mile, it just, it drops in a few places, you know? Yeah, that's okay. He's doing okay, he doesn't need us to do okay.

Alright, the Green Kyle is bringing us to a close with our final With our final These transitions kill me. With our final category here, the Green Kyle. Uh, we are at 4 2, so there is no chance, but this Drew category has to be done. I texted him the other day, I was like, dude, I gotta get the UTI in here somehow.

Yeah. I had to get the UTI. It is so weird, and this is in the book. Number two, this is the thing King chose, and this is the thing Darabont chose not to change. It's, it has survived the whole If anything is begging, it's raising its hand, it's jumping up and down, change me. Yes. It should be this. Did he not?

Okay. The after sex. Not the sidebar, but did nobody on set think when, when Michael Clarke Duncan had to grab Tom, Tom Hunks, Tom Tom, Tom Tom's hunks. Tom's. Tom's. Tom's. Tom's. Was that Freudian? Yeah. He had to grab Tom Hanks junk. He's gotta grab his hunks. You're telling me boys. Drew and Phil. You're telling me no one said, is that a good idea?

Is that gonna work? We were gonna have him grab. I think grabbing dudes nuts in the late 90s. Fondled his nutsack dude. To heal him. To heal him. No one raised their hand like, Frank I just. Someone that we're not completely sure didn't murder two little girls, you're just gonna let him grab your nuts like that?

Yeah, couldn't he have not had like tuberculosis or something and he just puts his hand on his chest or some sh*t, you know? Yeah, anything. Anything else. Or a fr like I said, a freaking migraine. You know, like a Threw his shoulder out, tossing the ball. Why has it gotta be a penis related injury? Cataracts.

I just find it hard in a movie that made 286 million, Hollywood, high stakes business, millions of dollars, high powered executives, fan screenings, test screenings, fans everywhere. No one said, wait a minute. Nobody. Anyway, that's my rant. Maybe that's the mundane nature of it is what makes it acceptable.

we are all a UTI in a way. A: 1930

ould you rather see? Endure a: 1930

I mean, I've never had one. But it seems less horrible than the poop. And you will encounter a Jesus like figure to heal you. So that's always, that's, that's built in. Yeah, that's always in the back pocket. That's built in. Um, yeah. I'll go UTI. Uh, I actually, side note, I did read that the poop that he crawled through was made with chocolate syrup, water, and um, sawdust.

That actually had to be fun. So, it wasn't as, uh, terrible. If you ever need to create sewage for any reason, those are your ingredients. Well, I have had a need. I have had a need. Phil. Great. I'll go. I was initially, I was thinking through this when you asked the question. Cause you know, as our avid listeners know, all six of you.

her have? An infection in the: 1930

wl through a sh*t pipe in the: 1960

You would have to get sick! And how dehydrated would he be from just constantly puking from crawling through all that altar? Dude, I have a weak stomach when it comes to, like, bodily fluids and things, so like I'd probably just die in that pipe. Um, If I don't come out with my whole, like, an infection all over my body from crawling through thousands of people's sh*t and piss.

I'd go with the, uh, devil you know in the UTI as opposed to the devils you don't in the smorgasbord of disease that he crawled through at the end of that f*cking movie. Let's go UTI because at least I f*cking know. I thought you were ending the bike. That was it. Goodbye! It's over now. I, I love, this is my favorite category that Drew came up with today, and I, um, building on what you just said, Phil, not to mention that this sh*t is coming from, listen, we, we get to like these prisoners because it's a, it's a sentimental movie, but let's think about real prisons with real people that did some bad, bad sh*t.

They're eating maggot food. That sh*t. Invent a whole new type of AIDS. Butt screwing each other. Yeah, there is some, there is, that is premium sh*t. I mean, that is some. That's disturbing right there, and I don't know that you could do it. Like, I, I mean, I know it's not, neither of these movies are fully realistic, but in real life, I don't think you could survive.

No, you could. The fumes, wouldn't the fumes kill you? You'd just throw up until you couldn't throw up anymore and keep going. That's a good point. I don't know that it's possible. Is there enough oxygen in that? to even breathe, like, would you not suffocate in that pipe, 500 yards thick, full, I mean, is there oxygen in there?

Yeah, there's all, it's all fumes, it's all, what is it called? What happens? Yeah, methane. Yeah, you would have methane. Again, neither movie super realistic, but I just don't know that you could do it. Also, dude tied his belongings to his leg with a rope. That was kind of cool, but yeah, I mean. They were in a plastic bag, though.

As we know. Yeah. Doesn't get caught on something, or the bag doesn't rip, and all that. How does he get the poster up behind him, like, if he can't turn around to hang it back up? Or is it just, I don't know. There is no question. He's got a, he's got a paper tab on the back side and some sticky, he goes, pulls up the, the, the bottom corner, crawls in, pulls the paper tab back.

Phil is demonstrating on the couch. There really isn't, and there really is We're an audio podcast and we're acting. I know, I love it. Sorry to all who are listening, there really is nothing to pull from either an experience in life to to, to crawl through a tunnel. You're not like, well, when I was on swim team, because you're crawl, you know, it's like there's no gazing weekend.

Yeah, it's true. It's like I remember sliding into, maybe this is like sliding into first, you know, when I rushed my fraternity. So this is crazy. That's why this category is crazy. I mean, the UTI, to me is obvious. I, I, uh, I do not know. Maybe after, the one thing we're not talking about is maybe after confinement, 19 years, you're innocent, like you have that behind you, and maybe you have the gusto to do it, but as a person that doesn't have that experience.

Yeah, it's almost like I'd probably just rather die in, in Shaxing. Yeah. And. I'd crawl through it, but I would rather just have a UTI that I know about. I think you could crawl through it. I'd make it happen. I don't know that you and I could. I don't want to do it. I don't know. I mean, they had to make it 500 yards.

They couldn't make it like 50 yards or 100 yards, they had to make it 500 yards. That's half a mile, almost. That's a lot to walk. Let alone crawl through jets. That's a long way to crawl at all. Let alone Actually, 500 yards is not almost half a mile. A mile is 5, 280 feet. And 500 yards is 1, 500 feet. That's not half a mile.

It's like a quarter mile. What did Freeman say? He said almost half a mile. He says five football fields. He says almost half a mile. Prison math. It's a quarter of a mile. So I guess Depending on what you define almost as there's just not a situation where I do that. Phil's got beef with red Yeah, I'd rather just it hurt really bad Andy is the math guy.

Okay, not red. Let's cut him a break I wonder if they talked about that when they met each other on the beach like I said in the movie that it was Upon recalculating I realized this narrator that's talking over us Said some sh*t that was wrong. Yeah. Well, by the skin of a UTI, Sha Shank pulls this one right out of his pant leg after he gets right out of it, say right out of Andy Dre's ass.

No, right out of his leg. His belongings right after he's standing in the rain. But this was a lot of fun. This was like the most mirrored, I mean, tombstone white rope was kind of close, but because of the different timing. But these two, same director, same source material, like, it's just incredible. So yeah, I, I'm glad we finally got to it.

Yeah, and I kind of, I kind of want to go to prison now. Yeah, this is my new aspiration. Anyway, this has been Kyle and, uh, I've been sitting in Old Rusty here. This is Kyle. Thank you for hanging out. Love you. This is Drew. Hey, don't commit any crimes out there, okay? Let's stay out of those, uh, prison cells.

Be good. Yeah, let's make America crime free again. This is Phil. Yep, and if your wife does cheat on you, and you're a banker, you see the formula. Banker? You see, they probably use TurboTax now. Oh, we didn't talk about any of that. We didn't talk about the guy that, Elmer Blatch or whatever. We didn't talk about any of that.

Oh yeah, I guess next time. There's a lot there. We'll pair something else again, Shawshank. Okay, bye! Love you, bye!