Sometimes I Think About Dying

Kyle: 00:00:00

Foreign. Ladies and gentlemen.

Seth: 00:00:16

We'Re keeping that in. Go.

Kyle: 00:00:19

Ladies and gentlemen, welcome back to the Movie wars podcast. Seth and Mariana are here again.

Seth: 00:00:24

What's up?

Kyle: 00:00:27

When I was editing the last podcast and I introduced her, you're like, I'm here too. I'm like, you live here. Yeah, but I want to make sure to introduce you. I don't take you for granted. My. My friend, my filmmaker friend.

Seth: 00:00:41

What's up?

Kyle: 00:00:42

But, you know, I don't. One of my. I'm a big Seinfeld fan, and one of my favorite episodes of Seinfeld is when Jerry, he buys a.

He buys a suit, and the sale suit salesman hits on Elaine and it makes him mad. And so he. He takes the suit back. And they ask him why he's taking the suit back. He says, for spite.

And she's like, I don't know if we can take a suit back for spite. She's like, what do you mean? He's like, I don't like the salesman that sold it to me. I don't usually podcast out of spite.

Seth: 00:01:08

Yeah, but Seth does.

Kyle: 00:01:12

We are covering a film called Sometimes I Think about Dying.

Seth: 00:01:15

Yes. Yes, we are. I saw this movie earlier this year at the Bell Court, and I went because a friend of mine asked me to go. I had no idea what it was about.

All I knew was Daisy Ridley was in it. And this is one of those moments because. Because I've.

Unfortunately, due to Covid and other reasons, I've had to get out of the film industry for a little bit here. I'm trying to get back into directing and producing, getting back into things.

But this is kind of one of those moments where it was like the catalyst in me really hardcore making this decision to get back into filmmaking. Because I am so tired of watching movies that have incredible artistic potential just to watch them shit the bed so hard. Like there's.

And we'll get into. We'll get into why I'm saying all of this, but it's like, I watched this movie and I could see the bones of something incredible. I could see this.

First off, the topic is so important. Suicidal ideation, depression, trying to get yourself out of that. It's such an important topic that should be covered more often in filmmaking.

And unfortunately, I feel like the way that this was all put together in the final product was. Was so underwhelming to me that it. It took away from that message in a very bad way. So for those of you who haven't seen it, I. I do think it's.

It's worth watching. I'm not going to sit here and shit on and say it's a terrible movie.

When I came out of it, I probably would have ranked it like a six, six and a half to seven out of ten. I think there's a lot of good that's in it.

My roommate and I, when we rewatched it to get ready for this, there was a lot that we were able to pull out of it that I think was really good.

But there were some very strong missteps that I think kept this from being a truly great movie and just made it worth watching one time and never seen again. It takes place in the Pacific Northwest. They very purposefully.

The director, Rachel Lambert, she very purposefully wanted to shoot it out there because she. She wanted the scenery to be its own character in the film and. And start representing depression through where the film was located.

I think she did a great job with picking the location. It was a small town outside of. I think it was either Portland or Eugene somewhere in Oregon. And I think it's. It was just absolutely remarkable.

Some of these wide shots, seeing just the scenery behind what Daisy Ridley was doing on screen. They ended up looking through the real estate section of a newspaper to find an abandoned office building that was for rent.

And they talked to the real estate agent and were able to rent it for a month to shoot in the office scenes there. The. A lot of things really went well. I think the cinematographer did a really good job with the vast majority of the film.

I think the editing was really good. But I do have some problems with it that we'll get into throughout the podcast.

Kyle: 00:04:15

Big problems. Sorry to use my voiceover voice for that. Big problems.

Marianna: 00:04:22

Yeah. This movie was sold to me. Is like. That's how they pitched it to me.

Kyle: 00:04:27

You will think about dying.

Marianna: 00:04:29

I know. I was like, I already have suicidal ideations and intrusive thoughts. So I.

I thought, like, I loved the way they did the vignettes for the suicidal ideations. I'm like, mine are not that pretty.

Seth: 00:04:40

Yeah.

Kyle: 00:04:41

Yeah.

Seth: 00:04:41

See?

And again, we could get to this more in detail later, but there were moments like that there's like five of them in the film where she has these very grandiose images of places and ways that she's dying.

And my biggest problem with those is they were so good and they were so overused in the trailer that I thought the whole movie was going to be this beautiful, almost Renaissance painting, like, journey through her and her visions of dying. And it's just these very unsatisfying moments that don't get revisited enough to justify the way it ends.

Marianna: 00:05:21

Yeah, they're. They're really sparsely used.

Kyle: 00:05:24

Yeah, yeah.

Marianna: 00:05:24

And they're the best part of the movie.

Seth: 00:05:26

Exactly. Which, again, is kind of one of my problems with it, is that these little moments are the best part, and they could have been utilized so much more.

Marianna: 00:05:33

They're so good. They do make you just kind of want to lay down in the forest and die.

Seth: 00:05:37

Yeah.

Kyle: 00:05:38

In a very grandiose manner.

Marianna: 00:05:40

Yeah.

Seth: 00:05:41

Yeah.

Kyle: 00:05:41

I want to die next to a Mario mushroom.

Marianna: 00:05:44

Yeah.

Seth: 00:05:45

Another interesting part about her making the film, and this is something I actually do respect, she likes working with comedians, and so a lot of the background cast were actually local comedians in the Oregon community, and she likes doing, like, using them because of their improv skills. Usually they're able to take just a little bit of direction and run with it for however long it needs to happen. And so that's.

In a lot of ways, that's kind of why the vast majority of the dialogue feels just kind of mundane about everyday life, is because she was like, cool, this is what you're going to be talking about. Go for it. And I'm going to be focused over here on Daisy. But you guys just say stuff in.

Kyle: 00:06:25

The background sounds like her printer broke.

Marianna: 00:06:27

To me, that makes so much sense. Also, Meg Stalter is one of the background actors, too. I think she's like, one of. There's two.

The girl from the White Lotus and the Meg Stalter are the two that I recognize as, like, being famous people. But, man, Meg Stalter, she is, like, the best improv actress ever.

Seth: 00:06:44

Yeah.

Marianna: 00:06:44

I feel like they didn't utilize her enough.

Seth: 00:06:46

Agreed. That's, again, it's like there were so many great pieces to this movie that could have just made it a 10 out of 10, darling. Indie movie.

Kyle: 00:06:54

When you told me that the first time, I'll be honest, my first reaction was, well, where did they improv? I was like, I just don't feel it or see it. I mean, these are comedians. I mean, of course they're Oregon comedians.

Marianna: 00:07:05

I mean, it really felt like they were Oregon comedians. Now that you say that, I'm like, of course. That's the gas.

Seth: 00:07:11

Yeah.

Kyle: 00:07:12

Imagine if that was Nashville, you know, I don't know.

Seth: 00:07:14

Something else a lot of people don't know. This was originally a stage play, and then it was rewritten by the author of the stage play to be a screenplay.

And then eventually Rachel got her hands on it and she did some editing. I'm pretty Sure. I talk about one of those things in the randos, but yeah, she. She did some editing to it, and. And it came out to this.

But I didn't know it was a stage play before. And then when she mentioned it in the Q and A after, that's when a lot of things actually clicked a little bit better for me was.

Was having that understanding of this was originally on stage. It kind of made some. Some of the choices make a little more sense to me.

Kyle: 00:07:53

Interesting.

Seth: 00:07:54

Yeah.

Marianna: 00:07:54

It felt like a stage play.

Seth: 00:07:55

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And absolutely did.

Marianna: 00:07:58

So much sense.

Seth: 00:07:58

Yeah.

Kyle: 00:07:59

How did you encounter this film?

Marianna: 00:08:01

I really enjoyed it. I understand everything you're saying, though I will say the reasons that I enjoyed it is because I love a quiet movie where nothing happens.

Like, kind of my favorite thing. I love old French movies. Last Year at Marion Bad. Anybody. Literally nothing happens. It's like three hours, it's black and white. My favorite movie.

Seth: 00:08:20

Nice.

Marianna: 00:08:20

Old French movies are awesome.

Seth: 00:08:22

Yeah.

Marianna: 00:08:22

But this is kind of reminded me of, like, an old French movie where nothing happens. Definitely. And I kind of like that because, like, I could feel her depression.

But I did watch it, like, the middle of the day on my lunch break, too, so there is that.

Seth: 00:08:34

I do think Daisy did an incredible job with what she was given.

Marianna: 00:08:37

She's got a lot of depth when she's not doing or saying anything.

Like, I understood her character very well, especially when she, like, walks into her glass dollhouse, basically, and eats cottage cheese on a cookie.

Seth: 00:08:48

Yeah, yeah.

Marianna: 00:08:50

Like her. I'm like, I know this girl. She actually reminds me of a friend of mine.

Seth: 00:08:54

Oh, nice.

Marianna: 00:08:56

I'm like, this is a person I know, and definitely a person. I would love to be a fly on the wall in their life all the time, because I'm just like. I just watch them do nothing.

Seth: 00:09:04

Yeah.

Kyle: 00:09:05

Yeah. You know, I. I got a little bit excited, you know, when you told me that one of the themes was suicidal ideation.

You know, I was a little excited about that. I mean, I don't want to be like, an open book here, but, yes, in my life, I've had a lot of struggles with depression. Suicidal ideation.

Seth: 00:09:21

Same here.

Kyle: 00:09:22

Yeah. Especially in my teen years. And I won't go too deep into it, but that is not an enjoyable thing to think about or part of my life. And I was.

And listen, I don't want to, like, judge other people's suicidal ideation, you know, like, you know, one's better than the other. I like mine better, you know, But I did not relate to those parts and those were the parts of the film I was excited about.

I kind of felt like, oh, maybe someone's going to explore this in a way that, you know, that could be meaningful. I. I honestly did not relate to that part of it at all. And that was kind of why I went into this movie. I felt.

I kind of felt that overall it was incredibly dry. I just didn't have anything to sink my teeth into.

Seth: 00:10:08

Yeah.

Kyle: 00:10:09

And I agree that Daisy did a fantastic job, but I just. And I love self indulgent filmmaking. Yeah. I mean, my third favorite director of all time is Nicholas Wending. Refn.

I am a fan of self indulgent filmmaking.

Seth: 00:10:23

Absolutely. I love, I love when an artist can be unabashedly pretentious in what they're doing and just go balls to the wall.

Kyle: 00:10:32

That's me to a T. And I love Tom York for the same reason. Like, so many artists that I love are self indulgent people who don't give a damn.

But I, I just didn't, you know, like, what do they call that? Free soloing? You know, for that next little rock. I. There was never any place for me to put my. My fingers or my hands here. Not to get.

I hate my illusions. When I say them, I say, why did you. You're stupid.

Seth: 00:10:57

You're just stupid.

Kyle: 00:10:59

Stop talking. Don't do podcasts anymore. Give it. Give this to Seth and Mariana. They got it.

Marianna: 00:11:04

It made sense.

Kyle: 00:11:05

Yeah.

Seth: 00:11:06

Yeah.

Kyle: 00:11:06

You're looking, but, you know, they're. I. I get this visual like. And I just, like, was like at the bottom of the rock. Like, there's just nowhere to put my hands or feet. Like, I just.

There's not a character I relate to yet. There's these really complex ideas that I've experienced in my personal life.

Seth: 00:11:21

Yeah.

Kyle: 00:11:22

And I. I'm not saying that they made light of it. They definitely didn't make fun of it.

Seth: 00:11:28

Definitely not light of it. And the moments that were humorous, I thought were very good. Humorous moments.

Kyle: 00:11:32

Yeah.

Seth: 00:11:32

Like I said, there's a lot. There was a lot of good that I could pull out and I didn't even have to look too hard.

But then there were other times where it's like I wanted to pull something good.

Kyle: 00:11:42

Yes.

Seth: 00:11:42

Out of a scene and I really had to reach to find it if it was. Was there.

Kyle: 00:11:46

Yeah. I think. I agree. And I think part of it is a self rel reflection on me. I'm kind of projecting a little bit because I.

I tend to want to experience the subject matter in a very dark, crass way.

Seth: 00:11:55

Yeah.

Kyle: 00:11:56

And I didn't see that. I thought it was going to be more violent. Not violent, but just more visceral.

Seth: 00:12:01

Yeah.

Kyle: 00:12:02

And. But I will say the best scene in the movie that I did relate to really hard. And there was only really. This is really the only scene that I. I felt.

I felt. I felt heard. But when Robert. They're in the car and. And she says, you can't even. What does she say? You can't even stay married or what?

Is that the quote?

Seth: 00:12:23

Oh, yeah. You're exhausting to talk to. No wonder you couldn't stay married.

Kyle: 00:12:26

I. That hurt me. Yeah. Because that was a very real insult.

Seth: 00:12:32

Yeah.

Kyle: 00:12:32

And as a person that struggled with the things that the main. The protagonist struggles with, I have, in my moments of darkness, have said very hurtful things to people.

Seth: 00:12:41

Yeah.

Kyle: 00:12:42

That I love, that I can't take back. And that actually, of all the. That I didn't like and that I didn't find relatable, that one moment spoke very loudly.

Seth: 00:12:50

Absolutely.

Kyle: 00:12:51

And I actually left that scene thinking more of that.

Seth: 00:12:53

Yeah.

Kyle: 00:12:54

You know, not necessarily the setting or what she did, but just more of those relatable things that happen when you're. The visuals are one thing, but there is a behavior and there is a. There is a mentality and an effect that this type of thinking has on.

Seth: 00:13:08

Oh, yeah. There was an audible reaction in the theater with that moment. Moment happened.

Kyle: 00:13:11

Yeah.

Seth: 00:13:12

Like, every single one of us was like.

Marianna: 00:13:13

Oh.

Seth: 00:13:14

Like we felt it.

Kyle: 00:13:16

And the actor, Robert. Is it Mehera? Is that how you pronounce it? Maherji. It's a very interesting, cool last name, but I wish I could pronounce it correctly. I'm sorry.

But he Actually, that was the best acting moment in the movie because his. He. The way he got downtrodden and that moment spoke to me, and I just wanted more of those moments.

Seth: 00:13:33

Yeah. Yeah.

Kyle: 00:13:34

That was my. That was my biggest takeaway, that. And it's somewhere between. Are you familiar with the. The genre Mumble Corps?

Marianna: 00:13:42

I was gonna bring that up, actually. Yeah.

Kyle: 00:13:44

You were.

Marianna: 00:13:44

Yeah.

Kyle: 00:13:45

I am actually not. I'm not necessarily a fan of mumblecore, but I'm a fan of a movie called Bellflower.

Seth: 00:13:50

Okay.

Kyle: 00:13:51

Which is. Is. Was directed by Evan Gledel. And it's. He's kind of one of the inventors of the mumblecore genre. And it's this idea that we don't have scripts.

We talk like we're normal people, but it's almost exaggerated.

Seth: 00:14:03

Yeah.

Kyle: 00:14:03

It's like hyperbolic.

Seth: 00:14:05

We're kind of like that Michael Crichton style.

Kyle: 00:14:07

Yes.

Seth: 00:14:07

If you've seen Timeline, which is actually one of my favorite time.

Time travel movies, that's one of the big things about it is everyone's overlapping their conversations, everyone's talking at the same time, and yet you can still sort of actually understand what everyone's saying.

Kyle: 00:14:20

Yeah. And there's no real acting. I mean, they're not. And it's still good and entertaining. Like the whole premise of Bellflowers. They're trying to build.

They're rebuilding the Mad Max car for the apocalypse, but they're alcoholics and they're out in the desert and they're in horrible relationships, they're on drugs. And it's a very interesting film. It's a very visual film. But anyway, I was watching this thinking, like, is this like a caricature of mumblecore?

It's like.

Marianna: 00:14:42

Yeah.

Kyle: 00:14:42

Did you, you. So you know about Mumble Corps? What did you think?

Marianna: 00:14:45

Yeah, no, that occurred to me when I was watching it, honestly, because I remember all the Greta Gerwig movies where she's the, you know, protagonist as opposed to the director. Yeah. Back when she was acting more, I would say. But yeah, that's kind of what reminded. It reminded me a little bit of Frances. Ha. In a way.

And it also reminded me of melancholia.

Kyle: 00:15:05

Yeah, yeah.

Marianna: 00:15:05

But not. But it didn't have that, like, payoff at the end.

Seth: 00:15:10

Exactly. Melancholia. Visually, even if we just go strictly visually, I could see a lot of parallels between the two movies.

But what makes Lars von Trier a true auteur versus just a filmmaker is he takes those visceral visual images and pushes them to the absolute limit. The, the whole.

The fact that the first literally like three minutes of that movie are those gigantic slow motion, existential, ethereal looking shots, paintings. That's what I wanted out of this movie. I wanted those moments where she's like, standing in, in.

In the, the little office space with the snake or is laying on the, the, the. Like in that tent on the beach or in the middle of the woods. Like, all of those moments, I wanted them to be explored in more depth.

Marianna: 00:16:01

Yeah. You know what just occurred to me as you were talking about this?

I'm wondering if there was a budget issue during the filming of the movie and they were like, oh, I guess we can't do everything we were gonna do, so we'll just make it, whatever.

Seth: 00:16:12

From what I can tell, that was not the issue.

Marianna: 00:16:16

Oh, no. Yeah, it kind of felt like that.

Seth: 00:16:19

Yeah, it legitimately felt like money went to places that it, it wasn't used, utilized as best.

Marianna: 00:16:26

The ketamine budget.

Seth: 00:16:28

Yeah.

Kyle: 00:16:29

Cottage cheese.

Seth: 00:16:30

Yeah. From what I remember from, from the Q and A that she did, it wasn't. Money wasn't the issue.

It was, these were, these were conscious choices that, that were made for the making of the film.

Marianna: 00:16:40

Okay.

Seth: 00:16:41

Yeah.

Kyle: 00:16:41

And I, I, I don't know that some of the stuff you're talking about with Von Trier, like, that's stuff that's not necessarily budget can fix even. And that's something that a visionary brings.

Seth: 00:16:50

Exactly.

Kyle: 00:16:51

And hate to be insulting and say I don't think the director's a visionary, but I just didn't get.

Seth: 00:16:55

This is her third feature, so she's definitely young. I think there's, there's so much talent there and I think that she can definitely grow and, and expand into, into a potentially legendary filmmaker.

I just, I think, I think that there should have just been more discussion during this film about how things were going to be done.

Kyle: 00:17:13

What were you gonna say? Sorry.

Marianna: 00:17:14

Kind of felt like she didn't know what she was making. Yeah, it sort of felt like poetry. And I love that, that quote about poetry. You know, facts are like poetry and everybody fucking hates poetry.

Oh, that's probably not even the, probably not even the right thing.

Seth: 00:17:33

Well, you just made a new quote then. It's a fantastic quote.

Kyle: 00:17:37

Said Mariana Brown,: 2012

Seth: 00:17:42

It's on IMDb be now.

Kyle: 00:17:44

I just put it on there. On your page?

Seth: 00:17:45

Yeah.

Marianna: 00:17:46

Perfect. I didn't even know I had one.

Kyle: 00:17:48

Yeah, I just made.

Seth: 00:17:49

Now it's getting weird over here.

Kyle: 00:17:50

I'm making everyone a page.

Seth: 00:17:51

One. One. I've already got one.

Marianna: 00:17:53

Yeah, he's got a real page.

Seth: 00:17:57

But.

Kyle: 00:17:58

What were you saying?

Marianna: 00:17:59

I kind of forgot, honestly.

Kyle: 00:18:01

You said you, you didn't know what she, the kind of film she was trying to make, it kind of felt.

Marianna: 00:18:04

Like she would got confused in the middle. Or, or maybe she set off to do one thing and then like during production it just, things happened and she wasn't good at.

This is where like Kubrick's horrible personality. Yeah. Or not horrible personality, but like demanding.

Seth: 00:18:20

Yeah.

Marianna: 00:18:20

Doesn't care what people think of him. This is, I hate saying this. This is so controversial. Just rip me apart in the comments. It's fine.

When it comes to female directors, I'm wondering if we've gotten to a place in society where women have finally gotten over their people pleasing natures, where they can handle a production the way a man does. And I'm Only saying that because people actually treat you differently as a woman in every setting that you're ever in.

It doesn't matter if you're the boss, you know, and it doesn't necessarily matter about the people that you hire. It's always this, you know, collaboration effort. I don't know necessarily if she even knows if that's how it worked.

And I don't want to say that I know more than her, but I'm just saying, like, I wonder how much of the choices that I don't like in the movie and that you don't like.

Seth: 00:19:07

Yeah.

Marianna: 00:19:07

And then everybody seems to think that it's not necessarily a whole movie.

Seth: 00:19:11

Yeah.

Marianna: 00:19:12

You know, I wonder if those came from moments of, like, just trying to get the day over.

Seth: 00:19:19

Yeah. You know, because I definitely agree with you that it kind of loses what it's trying to be in the middle.

And you can tell the bookends of it really know what it's trying to be.

Marianna: 00:19:28

And it's so good up until a point.

Seth: 00:19:30

Yeah.

Marianna: 00:19:31

It's really engaging. And that's what. I kind of got upset about it because I'm like, I want to like this.

Seth: 00:19:36

Yeah.

Marianna: 00:19:36

And I did like a lot of it. So I. I do overall like the movie a lot, and I like what she was doing with it. I'm really excited to see where she goes next.

Seth: 00:19:44

Yeah, absolutely. And I. I. Same thing.

I went into the movie with absolutely no preconceived notion other than I saw the preview literally 10 minutes before the movie started.

Marianna: 00:19:53

Oh, wow.

Seth: 00:19:53

Yeah. So I had no. No expectations. No. Nothing soured my. My attempt to view the movie. It's just, like I said, as someone who. This is what I want to do.

It just frustrated me to see. And again, hindsight is 20 20. I'm having the luxury of watching the movie already finished.

I'm not the one in the trenches trying to make it happen from scratch.

But it's like, I saw what just seemed like very obvious things that could have been fixed to just set it over into a very memorable, somewhat legendary indie film.

Marianna: 00:20:27

It had so much potential.

Seth: 00:20:28

So much.

Kyle: 00:20:29

Yeah. Yeah. And it's so weird when you go into a movie like this. Rarely happens, especially on the podcast, because I'm typically working with something I.

I have experience with. Like, I. I don't even really feel connected to Daisy Ridley at all. Like, I didn't know the director. I know none of the cast. Like, I, I didn't.

I had never heard of this until you told me about it. I. I had. I. I Literally had zero expectations and zero knowledge.

Seth: 00:20:54

Yeah.

Kyle: 00:20:54

Coming into it. And that's not happened to me in a while. I had not seen.

Marianna: 00:20:58

Yeah.

Kyle: 00:20:59

At least with other movies, I've seen a trail. Like, I hadn't. This movie was never on my radar.

Seth: 00:21:02

Yeah.

Kyle: 00:21:04

But, yeah. So, yeah, it's interesting. And I agree. There's no hard edges either. That's another problem for such a dark subject matter.

I never felt challenged by the philosophy in the film. I never felt a sharp edge. I do want to be with this, like, poked a little.

Seth: 00:21:21

Yeah.

Kyle: 00:21:21

You know, I just never. And even.

Even in the scene where, like, the feet are lifting and, like, it took me a minute to register that she's supposed to be thinking about Hung hanging herself in the crane. But the way that was even presented, I was like, I. It took me a. Like, it didn't.

Seth: 00:21:36

Yeah.

Kyle: 00:21:36

That could have been more impactful.

Seth: 00:21:38

It could have.

Kyle: 00:21:39

And I hate to say it because it's a horrible visual, but they could have straight up just showed her hanging from the crane.

Seth: 00:21:45

Could have.

Marianna: 00:21:46

I was waiting for them to.

Kyle: 00:21:47

Yes. And it would have been horrible. But that is what suicidal ideation is.

Seth: 00:21:51

Yeah.

Kyle: 00:21:51

And if that's the theme of this movie, why the. Didn't you just show me something?

Seth: 00:21:54

Exactly. So before we get to the. The questions, basically, my biggest critique of this film is it should have been 15 to 20 minutes longer.

And all of those images that she encounters throughout the movie. Because. Because, you know, she. She says the horrible thing to the dude. He's like, get the fuck out of my car.

And she goes and wallows on the floor of her apartment for the rest of the weekend. And that was it. Like, that was the entire montage.

And literally my roommate said, I can't believe Twilight did a passing of time montage better than this movie. But what could have been really cool is if all of those images while she's on her apartment floor.

What if she falls asleep and suddenly now has to confront every single one of those images of her dying and. And kind of use. Like, what if they had used that.

That office space with the snake in it as, like, a central location where she starts this existential journey, confronting these thoughts head on? Yeah, I think that could have been.

And then that's what inspires her to go grab him at the end and share this part of her life with him to help him understand where she's coming from. Like, again, the bones were there, the. The visuals were there. It just wasn't leaned into enough, in my opinion. Yeah. Yeah.

Kyle: 00:23:12

And the fact that that's how they. They reconcile. Like, he. His whole premise is he doesn't know her.

Seth: 00:23:18

Yeah.

Kyle: 00:23:19

And then she says that thing, and then, like, oh, he all of a sudden feels the most amount of empathy a person's ever felt.

Seth: 00:23:25

Yeah.

Kyle: 00:23:25

If you don't know her.

Seth: 00:23:26

Yeah.

Kyle: 00:23:27

It's like, if I don't know, you know, I don't know. Like, I almost hot dog when I was five. And you're like, you're a psycho. Like, I don't know you. When you're talking to me about.

When you were five, he choked on a hot dog. It's like. It just was like. Like, why is he able to go from not knowing her to. This is. All of a sudden we are cementing our relationship.

Seth: 00:23:45

Yeah. Because it's not even a moment where she's like, I tried to kill myself once. It's.

Sometimes I think about dying and I would literally would just be like, don't we all?

Kyle: 00:23:52

Yeah. Yeah.

Seth: 00:23:54

That was another problem I had was I didn't feel like there was any understanding as to why she is this way. Because when. When we were watching it, my roommate literally just goes, oh, she's depressed because she lives in Oregon.

Kyle: 00:24:07

Yeah.

Seth: 00:24:07

Like, that's why she hates everything. Yeah. It's just so depressing here.

Marianna: 00:24:11

Anyway, she doesn't have a happy life. She also doesn't do anything to change her life at all.

Seth: 00:24:16

Yeah.

Marianna: 00:24:17

It looks like she lives in her grandmother's house.

Seth: 00:24:18

Yeah.

Marianna: 00:24:19

That she died and just took over the house. She goes home, she stands up and eats a cookie with cottage cheese on.

Like, to me, the movie, it's less about suicidal ideations and more about just depression because she's just kind of like these beautiful dead, like, vignettes of her. And I'm like, this isn't necessarily about her killing herself. Because, like, I mean, my suicidal ideation is. Is. It's different.

It's like somebody shooting me in the head through the window while sitting on the couch at my house.

Seth: 00:24:48

Yeah.

Marianna: 00:24:49

You know, or in the car getting run over by a car. And they happen every time I see a car, every time I'm sitting on the couch. And so it's like almost like the.

The director didn't even understand suicidal ideation.

Seth: 00:25:00

Yeah.

Marianna: 00:25:00

Yeah, Kind of.

Seth: 00:25:01

Let's be real, though. That car crash scene was incredible.

Kyle: 00:25:03

Yeah.

Seth: 00:25:04

That was that in the theater. That just, like, blew my mind. How well done.

Kyle: 00:25:08

That the only unique camera use of the camera.

Seth: 00:25:10

Yeah.

Kyle: 00:25:10

In the whole film.

Seth: 00:25:11

100. Agreed.

Kyle: 00:25:13

The questions, the questions. Is this. Is this film really a pseudo indictment on the negative effects of cottage cheese on society.

Seth: 00:25:23

I love how these indie movies will just, like, pick the one thing that kind of internally becomes like a meme for the movie. And yeah, literally, I was reading through the letterboxd reviews and every, like, eighth one would just be like, cottage cheese.

Kyle: 00:25:38

I'm 37 and I still don't understand cottage cheese. What it is, what it does, why people like it. Do you like it?

Seth: 00:25:44

It's not even a real cheese.

Marianna: 00:25:45

I don't. It's not even real cheese. You're right.

Kyle: 00:25:47

I learned that cottage curd was not marketable.

Marianna: 00:25:52

My husband eats cottage cheese, so I'm like, he likes good food, so I'm assuming it's good, but I don't know. I look at it and I'm like, I don't want that.

Kyle: 00:25:59

Yeah, it looks like baby vomit.

Seth: 00:26:01

Yeah. It's slimy. It's chunky. It's gross.

Marianna: 00:26:04

It's like everything you don't want food to be.

Seth: 00:26:06

Yeah.

Marianna: 00:26:06

Yeah. I don't know.

Kyle: 00:26:08

Yeah. The word texture doesn't even begin to describe what's wrong with cottage cheese.

Marianna: 00:26:12

It's a skinny people food. You know, it. I.

Seth: 00:26:15

Maybe that's what I'm missing.

Marianna: 00:26:17

They eat like two. Like, seriously, she'll eat a scoop of it. On what, a cookie? What is that?

Seth: 00:26:21

I couldn't tell what it was. It might have been a piece of meat.

Kyle: 00:26:24

Like English muffin.

Seth: 00:26:25

Yeah, like a Salisbury steak.

Kyle: 00:26:27

The lighting wasn't good in that shot.

Seth: 00:26:28

Yeah.

Marianna: 00:26:29

But, yeah, that's my other thing. I'm like, no wonder you're depressed. Like, you get some overhead lighting.

Kyle: 00:26:35

Get a. You have a nice enough house.

Seth: 00:26:37

Yeah, yeah.

Marianna: 00:26:38

That's the other thing. I'm like, I don't understand this girl's story. She clearly doesn't buy anything or clothes or anything at all.

Seth: 00:26:44

Yeah.

Marianna: 00:26:44

She's wearing the same stuff. And it is funny to me how ugly you can make Daisy Ridley in, like, horrible clothes.

Seth: 00:26:49

Yeah.

Marianna: 00:26:50

Or not ugly. She didn't look ugly. She just. Her clothes are horrible.

Seth: 00:26:53

Yeah, yeah. It looked very plain. Obviously it was on purpose. And. And again, that's something. I do think the costuming was a very great choice in this movie.

Like, there were.

There were so many pieces that, like, worked well, and then there's gigantic chunks that just distract from how much good there was in the movie the Kurds. Yeah. Yeah.

Kyle: 00:27:11

She needs to get off the email list for the Edgar Allan Poe outlets.

Marianna: 00:27:14

Store around the corner.

Kyle: 00:27:16

Like, hey, we have another sale on gray turtlenecks.

Seth: 00:27:19

Yeah.

Kyle: 00:27:20

Long dresses.

Marianna: 00:27:21

I didn't like Feel bad for her either. I'm just like, do something.

Kyle: 00:27:24

Yeah, that's what I'm saying.

Marianna: 00:27:26

Pilates.

Seth: 00:27:26

And you could tell because, like, watching it the second time, I was able to start looking at some of the production choices that were made.

You could tell that there was genuine thought put into the costuming because after she goes on the first date with the guy, she's wearing something red.

Marianna: 00:27:41

Yeah.

Seth: 00:27:42

Like, it's still a very muted red, but it's like there were very purposeful color choices that were made with Daisy's character and. And that were supposed to showcase her mood a little bit better. See that she was breaking out of her shell and.

And her colors, like, got a little more bright and a little more happy throughout it. And then that moment happens where. Where she tells him, that's why you can't stay married. And it goes straight back to just gray and brown.

Kyle: 00:28:04

Yeah.

Seth: 00:28:05

So definitely some thought put there.

Marianna: 00:28:08

God, I love that line that she says.

Seth: 00:28:10

Yeah.

Kyle: 00:28:10

Which one?

Seth: 00:28:11

The one that you're so exhausting to talk to. No wonder you can't stay married.

Marianna: 00:28:15

I want to say that to so many people. When she said that, I was like, this is like, what I want to say to most people.

Seth: 00:28:22

Yeah.

Marianna: 00:28:22

You're so exhausting.

Seth: 00:28:24

That's like when you really hate someone on a roast.

Marianna: 00:28:26

Yeah. For real. You're so exhausting. I don't know why anybody likes you. Yeah. Just going to keep saying it over.

Kyle: 00:28:33

Yeah. Your parents kept you in the house for eight, 18 years.

Seth: 00:28:35

Yeah.

Marianna: 00:28:35

Yeah.

Kyle: 00:28:36

Unbelievable.

Marianna: 00:28:37

Yeah. Alive.

Seth: 00:28:38

Yeah.

Kyle: 00:28:38

You're employed.

Seth: 00:28:39

Yeah. Yeah. You haven't been fired yet.

Marianna: 00:28:42

Moving from team to team because nobody wants you on their team.

Seth: 00:28:45

Is that it?

Marianna: 00:28:46

You can't figure out a reason to fire you?

Kyle: 00:28:48

It could just be like, defense from falling down, though. He's just walking around Los Angeles, like, unemployed with a suitcase with an apple and a sandwich in it.

Seth: 00:28:55

Yeah. Pocket protector.

Kyle: 00:28:57

That's gonna be my move next time I get laid off.

Seth: 00:28:59

Yeah.

Marianna: 00:29:00

Crazy.

Seth: 00:29:01

You're not going to start another podcast?

Kyle: 00:29:02

No. Well, I could. Yeah. I could do more free work. Yeah, for sure. I could do definitely a lot more underpaid work.

Marianna: 00:29:08

We're not being paid for this.

Kyle: 00:29:10

Sorry. You. There's a thing from House Plant that showed up. You can take that home. Is it a huge.

Seth: 00:29:17

You can take one of his kids?

Kyle: 00:29:19

Yeah, sure. I want.

Marianna: 00:29:20

Oh, my God. I'll take the little one.

Kyle: 00:29:22

Theo. The one that's waking up at 4:30 every day.

Marianna: 00:29:24

Baby. Is he a baby?

Kyle: 00:29:26

Three now.

Marianna: 00:29:27

Okay, this may be enough.

Kyle: 00:29:28

He's crazy.

Marianna: 00:29:29

That's the one I want.

Kyle: 00:29:30

He's got curls. His name is Theo.

Marianna: 00:29:32

Oh, my God.

Kyle: 00:29:33

I love. He looks just like me.

Marianna: 00:29:34

Perfect.

Kyle: 00:29:35

Yeah.

Marianna: 00:29:35

Cute baby.

Seth: 00:29:36

I was hoping he looked like Theo Huxtable.

Kyle: 00:29:38

Yeah.

Marianna: 00:29:39

Like Theo Vaughn. And he just had, like, a little mullet.

Kyle: 00:29:42

Or Theo Ratliff, the 610 black basketball player for the 76ers. He looks just like Theo Ratliff.

Seth: 00:29:47

You're just like, damn, kid.

Kyle: 00:29:51

Was it a huge missed opportunity for this movie? Sometimes I think about dying to not have the song I Hate Myself and Want to Die by Nirvana in the soundtrack. Is that a huge missed opportunity?

Seth: 00:30:02

I think it was. I think that would have made a way better ending song. Yeah, yeah.

Marianna: 00:30:07

There was so much depression material they could have used and all of other art that would have made it just a little bit more interesting. And again, I'm only saying it because I really liked the bones of the movie.

Kyle: 00:30:20

Yeah. I just.

Marianna: 00:30:22

I hate when I enjoy something so much to a point, and then I'm.

Seth: 00:30:26

Just like, I would love to read the stage play. I would love to know how different the stage play is from this.

Marianna: 00:30:33

Yeah.

Kyle: 00:30:33

This would work so well as an indie stage play. Like a small playhouse. Like. Like a real small room. 50 seats less.

Seth: 00:30:40

I think that. I think that's what it was. Yeah, Yeah.

Kyle: 00:30:42

I could love it in that.

Seth: 00:30:44

Yeah, yeah.

Kyle: 00:30:45

Because I think you could feel almost engrossed in it in that way.

Marianna: 00:30:48

Yeah.

Kyle: 00:30:49

Yeah. And if. For those that don't know, I Hate Myself and Want to Die was a B side on In Utero.

Seth: 00:30:53

And you can.

Kyle: 00:30:53

You can hear it on the. The digital deluxe or you can get the deluxe vinyl. Sorry, I had to go to town on that one. Not everyone knows that song.

Seth: 00:31:01

Yeah, I've heard of it. I just haven't heard it.

Kyle: 00:31:03

Oh, wait till you hear it.

Seth: 00:31:04

Okay.

Kyle: 00:31:05

Four minutes. Four minutes of bliss. All right, Rando. Sometimes I make myself want a rando.

Seth: 00:31:12

How many do you have?

Kyle: 00:31:13

I have five, but they are. They are a stretch. Most of them are from you.

Seth: 00:31:17

Oh, well, I'm gonna. I'll. I'll do mine, and I'll start with this one.

Something I thought was a really cool artistic decision was actually the aspect ratio of how it was filmed. It wasn't full widescreen, but it wasn't full, like, four by three. It was just pulled in a little bit.

And that was a very conscious choice that she made to feel.

Make everything feel more claustrophobic, which, again, in context of how it was supposed to be looked at and how her life, in her mind, is supposed to be caving in a little bit. Like, I kind of like that pulling it in and, and not having the extremely wide perspective. So that's a, That's a little fun. Little rando right there.

Kyle: 00:31:58

Rando.

Seth: 00:31:58

Looking into little film making aspects. What you got.

Kyle: 00:32:02

And we just got done talking about the Shining, which was filled with ratio aspects.

Seth: 00:32:05

Yeah.

Kyle: 00:32:06

Homemade. Homemade lenses. The one, the one I added was one of the interesting things about how this movie was portrayed.

I think this actually goes back to your comment about the director, is that this was filmed in the heart of COVID Yeah. And it was a pandemic film. And she talks a lot about, in interviews, about how that was very much on their minds.

And like, they talk specifically about like this idea of, like, when you ask somebody how they're doing and like, I'm fine and like, you actually know they're blowing up and melting down inside.

Seth: 00:32:35

Yeah.

Kyle: 00:32:36

And I think that mental health aspect was definitely on their mind because it was almost like even though they're presenting like this very harsh mental healthness truth, it's presented in this, like, we're going to be very docile around people mental health thing.

Seth: 00:32:52

Yeah.

Kyle: 00:32:52

It's like wrapped up in this oh, we care about mental health bundle.

Seth: 00:32:54

Yeah.

Kyle: 00:32:55

And I, I just think this was. Maybe there was. There were movies that were made during that. Like the Batman was made.

Seth: 00:33:00

Yeah.

Kyle: 00:33:00

During that time. I mean, there were movies being made and obviously this didn't have a Batman budget. But.

But I, I just, I don't understand, like, how they let that dictate. You know what I mean?

Seth: 00:33:12

I mean, a lot of people did. I.

I mean, I shot a music video in the middle of COVID where the artist wanted everyone to be in an enclosed space on marionette strings, all ballroom dancing together. And originally he was like, I want everyone to have these cool Victorian, like, masquerade masks.

And immediately I was like, or we could custom make really fancy Covid masks so we can still have what you're trying to get across, but. But also make everyone on set feel more comfortable about literally being like, mouth to mouth, face to face.

So I feel like for some people, it drove innovation. Not saying that was necessarily an innovative idea, but it looked cool.

It ended up working better than I think the other one would have for the themes in the music video. But it can push you to pivot into things that can make it better, or it can allow you to get lazy and say, oh, Covid was the reason why we.

Kyle: 00:34:06

You are an innovator.

Seth: 00:34:07

Oh, thank you.

Kyle: 00:34:10

I just had to say that out loud. But, yeah, that was the only rando I added to your list.

Seth: 00:34:15

Okay. My second. So now the third rando. So this is something I actually want to hear both of your opinions on.

She talked about in the Q and A that I watched, how the original screenplay, which was done by the author of the stage play, originally had Daisy's character doing an inner monologue for most of the office scenes. So whenever you're sitting there and everyone's in the background talking about hole punchers and staplers and.

And all the kind of mundane bullshit, she would be going through everything that she's actually feeling on the inside through an inner monologue. And from what I can tell, Daisy had access to that version of the script and was able to utilize that in what she was acting.

But it was a very purposeful decision that Rachel made to cut that out of the final product of the movie, which, in my personal opinion, was one of the biggest missteps of making that movie. What do you guys think? How do you think that would have affected things, having the inner monologue?

Marianna: 00:35:14

Oh, I think I would have liked that a lot more, necessarily. I think it would have given her more depth.

Seth: 00:35:19

I agree.

Marianna: 00:35:20

Because another thing that I keep forgetting about is it's sometimes I think about dying. It's not. Sometimes I think about killing myself.

Seth: 00:35:26

Yeah.

Marianna: 00:35:27

So I feel like she's just dead and, like, she just imagines herself dying in these scenarios. It's not that she's killing herself. She's just like, what if I got strung up by this crane right now?

Seth: 00:35:35

Yeah.

Marianna: 00:35:36

So I don't know. I would have really liked that, honestly, to just get a little bit more context. Because the office scenes were the ones where I'm like, I hate this.

Seth: 00:35:45

Yeah.

Marianna: 00:35:46

I hate watching this. I hate watching other people be in offices. Although I will say, all the office talk was amazing.

Seth: 00:35:51

Oh, yeah.

Marianna: 00:35:52

That was hilarious.

Seth: 00:35:53

Yeah.

Marianna: 00:35:53

And Meg Stalter, again, her favorite. When she do. When they're like, I like Thai food.

Seth: 00:35:58

Yeah.

Marianna: 00:36:00

Crazy. It's like, why? Why not? Yeah. And I'm just like, that's exactly how I am in the office. I'm just, like, trying to just be alive and try to be myself.

Seth: 00:36:11

Yeah.

Marianna: 00:36:12

Or, wait, no, I like sirloins.

Seth: 00:36:13

Yeah. Ribeyes.

Marianna: 00:36:15

Yeah.

Seth: 00:36:15

Rib eyes.

Marianna: 00:36:16

God, I've only seen it once. My favorite's a ribeye.

Seth: 00:36:20

Yeah.

Marianna: 00:36:20

But, yeah, I wish there had been more. That would have been great.

Seth: 00:36:24

Yeah.

Kyle: 00:36:25

Yeah. I think I. If it was done in a way that acted as a counterpoint because that's what this movie needed. Was a counterpoint.

Seth: 00:36:33

Yeah.

Kyle: 00:36:34

I don't necessarily feel like I need the inner monologue to tell me what she's thinking.

Seth: 00:36:40

Sure.

Kyle: 00:36:41

It would have been interesting to know what she thinks about other stuff. The stimuli.

Seth: 00:36:46

Yeah.

Kyle: 00:36:47

Even something like corporatism or politics, like. Because that's what makes things interesting. Is that with.

With ideation is that there's triggers involved and there's things that actually trigger, like, experiences, conversations, things you see on tv. Will. A song, for example. For me, songs freaking trigger that stuff all the time.

Seth: 00:37:06

Oh, yeah.

Kyle: 00:37:07

Because it takes me back to childhood, you know, when I experienced. The first time I experienced that ideation. But I. I would love to have known almost the extemporaneous thoughts.

Seth: 00:37:17

Yeah.

Kyle: 00:37:17

That polluted her mind because that's really what that is all about. And obsessive thoughts. Right. Intrusive thoughts. If it was taken in that direction, I think it actually could have bumped this movie up.

Seth: 00:37:29

Oh, 100.

Kyle: 00:37:30

Yeah. Yeah.

Seth: 00:37:30

There's a lot of moments in the movie, like when she's just standing by the copy machine and, like, waiting for whatever she's printing to happen. I And. And my roommate, and we're discussing this. It would have been so interesting to have had more of these moments where she. She does kill herself.

And then it cuts back to just the regular whatever's actually happening. Like, what if she's just standing there waiting for the copier?

She's watching all the pages printing out, and then she just grabs a pen and stabs herself in the.

Kyle: 00:37:56

Yeah.

Seth: 00:37:57

Like, things like that could have been inserted in there to. To really drive that point home. And what I think the inner monologue would have done.

My biggest problem with this was the fact that every time we're in the office, nothing is said that furthers the plot of this or the story in general. It's just words. It's just stuff being said, which I can understand to a point. You kind of do need that to get that feeling of, oh, wow.

I would hate my life too, if this is the stuff everyone around me is talking about. But to have that be that almost. Like, I think Daisy literally says, like, two words in the first 25 minutes of movie.

And to have nothing else that really makes me care about what's happening on screen that I think would have been fixed by hearing what she's actually thinking while all this other stuff is happening.

Kyle: 00:38:51

The movie is one tone and it's one direction.

Seth: 00:38:54

Yeah.

Kyle: 00:38:54

The entire time. And that's why I use the word counter. To your point. It's like nothing ever pulled us out, you know, you're on the trolley. And there are moments.

The biggest moment is when she says that. That mean thing.

Seth: 00:39:05

Yeah.

Kyle: 00:39:06

That was the. That was the climax. And, like. But nothing else ever, like, jolted you or. Or gave you pause or. It's just this one tone, one direction the whole time.

Seth: 00:39:15

Yeah.

Marianna: 00:39:15

It kind of felt like bad reality tv.

Seth: 00:39:17

Little bit.

Marianna: 00:39:18

With, like, a boring person.

Seth: 00:39:19

A little bit. Yeah, yeah.

Kyle: 00:39:21

The office without humor.

Seth: 00:39:22

Yeah, yeah.

Marianna: 00:39:23

But also just like, this girl doesn't have a personality either.

Kyle: 00:39:26

Yeah, yeah.

Marianna: 00:39:28

She doesn't seem to.

Kyle: 00:39:29

Yeah. That's an interesting question you posed.

Seth: 00:39:31

Yeah.

So the final rando that I have the Snow White music at the very end of the movie with that one shot, which, again, you have all the plants in the room. There was a little bit of a theme of plants throughout the whole movie, but it was. There was so little that I'm just like, why.

Why did you choose this moment to finally do another really cool, artistic thing that relates to almost nothing else in the movie? But that moment where. Where you're hearing the Snow White song and the things pulling out. That wasn't the original plan.

I don't know what their original song was, but in the editing room, she was sitting there with the editor, and she made a joke about how, oh, what if we put the Snow White song there? And she thought it'd be funny.

And he said, don't tempt me, bitch, and literally went and found the song and put it in, and they press play, and he turns around right when it hits the end of the shot, and she is just in tears, crying her eyes out. She's like, that's the shot. That's perfect. And so they called Disney up, and Disney gave him the. The permission to use it.

Kyle: 00:40:28

Interesting.

Seth: 00:40:28

So, yeah, it's.

That's one of those, like, little happy accidents where it started completely as a joke and then ended up being the thing that she loved about the ending.

Kyle: 00:40:37

And do you think their relationship with Disney and Daisy helped alleviate the royalty costs?

Seth: 00:40:43

Not the cost, but it probably may streamline the process of getting it approved. Just having someone like, especially, like you said, Daisy, having that relation to Disney, it definitely didn't hurt. Hurt the situation.

Kyle: 00:40:53

Because this movie made $300,000, which is.

Seth: 00:40:56

Kind of impressive, in my opinion.

Kyle: 00:40:58

Yeah.

Seth: 00:40:58

Because it did not get a wide release. It was pretty much. I. I remember watching her Instagram because I followed her after the. After I watched the Q and A, and she was going through.

It's like every new city it would get released in. It was like a big deal for her, and I'm very happy that.

That a lot of people were able to see it and that hopefully this will push her to just do something even better next time.

Kyle: 00:41:18

Yeah. 326k. Yeah, I definitely agree that there's upside.

Seth: 00:41:22

Yeah, for sure. Yeah. There's. Again, there was. The bones were so good, and I could see the talent that is there. It just. I feel like.

I feel like something else needed to happen to really push this over the edge.

Kyle: 00:41:35

Yeah.

Marianna: 00:41:35

Yeah. I will say, though, I thought about it a lot afterwards.

Seth: 00:41:38

Yeah.

Marianna: 00:41:38

I still think about it a lot. And I wonder if that was more of what she was going for.

Seth: 00:41:42

Yeah, I just. And maybe this is just the filmmaker in me. The.

The thoughts that I were having about the movie were also counterbalanced by the thoughts I was having about how frustrated I was with. With the little. She would dip her toe in being super artistic and then just like, oh, but we're back here now.

We're just back to the regular office again.

Marianna: 00:42:03

And she was so good at holding your attention. Like, she's a good director. Yeah, I think absolutely. Very good.

Seth: 00:42:09

Yeah.

Marianna: 00:42:10

And she reminds me of a lot of my favorite directors, too. So that's another thing. So I want to give credit where credit's due, 100%. I just, like, I've had this with so many indie movies where I'm just like.

At the end, I'm like. And where is the punchline? Where's the rest of this joke?

Seth: 00:42:27

Yeah, yeah. You know, give me the gut punch that I truly want. I. Because, yeah, you have that.

That insane moment in the car, and I'm just like, I need some payoff. And the payoff was not it. It was literally a straight roll credits moment where she's like, oh, sometimes I think about dying.

Marianna: 00:42:44

Yeah.

Seth: 00:42:44

I'm just like, that should not have been the impactful thing that you said to end the movie. There should have been a different way of saying that. That made it way more powerful than just saying the title of the movie.

Marianna: 00:42:56

And I really wish that the title of the movie had been different.

Seth: 00:42:59

Yeah.

Marianna: 00:43:00

Not a great title.

Seth: 00:43:01

Yeah.

Marianna: 00:43:01

I wouldn't have wanted to watch it. And if y'all hadn't talked about it.

Seth: 00:43:04

Honestly, I was kind of like, that was the name of the play. There was a short film.

was a short film made back in: 2019

Marianna: 00:43:21

But the title kind of makes me think about dying.

Seth: 00:43:23

Yeah.

Kyle: 00:43:25

I can't help it.

Seth: 00:43:26

Yeah.

Kyle: 00:43:26

They could have called it a cottage industry. They could have called it Cranes are to Blame.

Seth: 00:43:34

Cranes, Snakes, and the woods. I don't know.

Marianna: 00:43:38

I feel like naming the movie is kind of hard if you don't already have a name in mind. I don't know what I would have called it.

Kyle: 00:43:43

Yeah, Daisy does Death.

Marianna: 00:43:47

That would have actually been a lot better.

Seth: 00:43:52

Shall we war?

Kyle: 00:43:53

Shall we die? Shall we Ideal.

Seth: 00:43:57

Shall we Crane?

Kyle: 00:43:58

Shall we Crane? Shall we cottage?

Seth: 00:44:00

Shall we curd.

Kyle: 00:44:01

So our positive is frantastic. It was.

Seth: 00:44:06

Yes.

Kyle: 00:44:07

It was fantastic. And if you didn't like it, I'm thinking about dying.

Seth: 00:44:11

Cool.

Kyle: 00:44:13

So that's the best I could come up with.

Seth: 00:44:16

That's good.

Kyle: 00:44:16

This movie didn't give me a ton, but I thought, that's amazing. I thought fantastic would be good.

Marianna: 00:44:20

Fantastic's amazing.

Kyle: 00:44:22

Top bill cast, Daisy Ridley and David Morahey. I think that's how you say it. It's M E R H E J E Murahi, I believe. Okay, I'm sorry, Dave. I don't want to disrespect you.

Seth: 00:44:34

Please correct us in the comments and yell at him and make him put the word the in front of your.

Kyle: 00:44:38

The mariehi.

Marianna: 00:44:39

He told me before this he was gonna mispronounce your name on purpose.

Kyle: 00:44:42

It's been my plan all along. Five years of this podcast has brought me to this point.

Seth: 00:44:46

He incepted me to make this movie our part of our podcast so that he could do that.

Kyle: 00:44:51

Your move, Dave.

Marianna: 00:44:52

I'm actually a robot that they created because they needed a girl. Watch.

Kyle: 00:44:57

She's a stunt. Mariana.

Seth: 00:45:00

I think the two of them were frantastic again. I think. I think Daisy could have been given something a little better to work with, but what she was given to work with, I think she took it to 110%.

I think she was completely immersed in the character. Even though she didn't say a lot, never once did. I think her American accent was fake. Like, she. She 100% embodied that character.

And David, I think, did such a good job at being the, like, fun, dorky dude to kind of, like, counteract her insanely introverted, depressed self. So I think they definitely played off each other well. So, yeah, I'm gonna say frantastic.

Kyle: 00:45:38

Fantastic.

Marianna: 00:45:40

Frantastic as well. I don't know if anybody but Daisy could have done this. Like, agreed. It's so funny.

I really didn't realize it was her till, like, the middle because I'm used to Daisy being, you know, in Star Wars.

Kyle: 00:45:52

Charlize Theron actually could have. I'm just.

Marianna: 00:45:56

That would have been an interesting choice. I love Charlize Theron. I don't know. Fantastic.

Kyle: 00:46:01

Yeah, I love that.

Marianna: 00:46:02

Yeah.

Kyle: 00:46:03

You know, I, I also went fantastic here. Frantastic. And it's all because of that moment in the car. I.

I'm not gonna sit here and pretend like they did anything that necessarily blew me away or. But. But I think they did what they were asked to do.

Seth: 00:46:18

Yeah.

Kyle: 00:46:18

And I think they delivered what, what they were told to deliver. And. And there's no bad performances at all. But no one's asked to do a lot.

Seth: 00:46:25

Yeah.

Kyle: 00:46:25

You know, it's not like, you know, this was a complex film by any means in terms of what they were trying to portray. But I do think, I do think there, there was at least a handful of moments I said, I like this duo. I like this couple.

I like how they're playing off each other. So I do give it a fantastic for that.

Seth: 00:46:41

Hell yeah. Starting off positive.

Kyle: 00:46:43

Starting off positive. Sometimes I think about fantasticing. That was bad. I'm gonna definitely.

Marianna: 00:46:49

That was bad. You should cut that.

Kyle: 00:46:51

I'm gonna.

Seth: 00:46:52

No, you should leave it in to show everyone how bad that was.

Kyle: 00:46:55

That was. So it started strong.

Seth: 00:46:57

Yeah.

Kyle: 00:46:58

Some, you know, but you take chances. When you're managing the scorecard, you just, you dive in.

Seth: 00:47:02

It's true.

Kyle: 00:47:03

You dive in. You know, supporting cast. And these are our so called Oregon based comedians. Purvesh China playing Garrett. And then Meg. Meg Stalter is Isabelle.

How do you know her? Before.

Marianna: 00:47:19

She's an hacks. She's a genius. Improv.

Kyle: 00:47:22

Okay. I actually don't know that.

Seth: 00:47:23

Okay.

Kyle: 00:47:24

Okay.

Marianna: 00:47:25

Yeah.

Kyle: 00:47:25

Then we have Brittany O'Grady as Sophie. Brie. Elrod as Amelia. Lauren Beveridge. Beveridge as Tallulah. Emma's played by Ayanna Berkshire. Sean as Sean. Terry. Why. Why the names? Sean Terr.

And then Rich Hines played Rich, which is the, you know, twitchy guy.

Seth: 00:47:45

Yeah.

Kyle: 00:47:46

And then jet barrier is Doug. And then I accidentally screenshotted over this person. She's actually at the top of the list. Mars Marcia Deboni. Deboni. Damn. Your last names.

Get normal names as Carol the retiree.

Marianna: 00:48:02

Oh, I love Carol. I love, I love that.

Seth: 00:48:05

Carol was incredible.

Kyle: 00:48:06

That moment had some gravitas at the.

Marianna: 00:48:08

End, you know, that actually made me want to plan a trip to Las Vegas for my birthday.

Seth: 00:48:12

There you go.

Marianna: 00:48:13

It really did. And I have. This keeps happening to me where I'M like, I should save money for retirement.

And then I'm like, I should spend all the money I have on happy things.

Kyle: 00:48:21

Do it.

Seth: 00:48:21

That scene is the only thing that tips this over into Frantastic for me.

Kyle: 00:48:26

Yeah.

Seth: 00:48:26

Because.

And again, I would chalk a lot of this up to directing and to not having something scripted for everyone in the background to really be talking about.

But that moment, oh, my God, that moment when she's just breaking down because she's like, well, we were supposed to be on a cruise and now he's got cancer and we did all the things we were supposed to do and now everything's still going to shit. Like, watching her like, like, like not fully break down, but you can tell she's just holding it together and like the dam is about to burst.

But she's. She's that little band aid that's still, like holding herself together. That was such a powerful moment. Moment to watch, especially in the theater.

Like, it was dead quiet in the theater while that moment was happening. You couldn't hear a breath.

Kyle: 00:49:10

Wow.

Seth: 00:49:10

While it was going on. It was so good. So that that alone really tips it over into Frantastic for me again.

I think everyone probably did what they were asked to do, but no one really stood out other than her. In all now, I will also say, what. What's the girl that you were talking about?

Marianna: 00:49:24

Meg Stalter.

Seth: 00:49:25

Yes, Meg Stalter. I've come to realize that when I genuinely hate a character I'm seeing on screen, that means that that actor did an insanely good job.

I've worked with so many corporate people who probably enjoy the little icebreaker activities. Like that actually is something that gives them joy.

She played that character so well, and it reminded me of five people I could point to immediately that I was like, I hate that person. So good on you. That was some damn good acting. So, yeah, those two things, fantastic for me.

Marianna: 00:49:59

She's the best. Yeah, Meg Stalter is the best at this. You have to watch hacks because of it.

Seth: 00:50:04

Okay, I will.

Marianna: 00:50:04

Like, it is. It's about a comedian. It's supposed to be like Joan Rivers esque, like a. Like a Las Vegas comedian.

Tons of money, very successful, but like older and needs to like, kind of get with the times.

Seth: 00:50:16

Yeah.

Marianna: 00:50:16

And Meg Stalter's like this assistant and she is one of the best parts of the show. And the whole show's great.

Seth: 00:50:24

Nice.

Marianna: 00:50:24

Every character is amazing. I don't know how they write.

Kyle: 00:50:26

Let's call this podcast what it really is. This is a Meg Stalter. Mariana appreciated.

Marianna: 00:50:31

I love her so much. Like, I cannot. I could go on and on and on, but you know what's funny about it is it's because she's not really.

It doesn't feel like she's trying at all. She's just like, I've met this person. I can do this.

Seth: 00:50:43

I got this. Yeah, yeah.

Marianna: 00:50:44

Sirloin. I don't even know, like, you know. Okay.

Seth: 00:50:50

Yeah. Just effortless.

Marianna: 00:50:51

Yeah.

Seth: 00:50:52

Oh, get a little dangerous. Who brought the donuts? Good word. So good.

Marianna: 00:50:56

Effortless. Effortless. Okay. Sorry.

Seth: 00:50:58

Yeah.

Marianna: 00:50:59

What was the question?

Kyle: 00:51:00

Supporting cast.

Seth: 00:51:01

I think you're. I think you're at fantastic with me. Yeah. Yeah.

Kyle: 00:51:05

You're Stalter Tastic.

Marianna: 00:51:08

Oh, my God. I just want to meet her.

Also, I'm pretty sure she was supposed to be at Zany's during the filming of this, and then the show got moved because she was filming.

Kyle: 00:51:15

Oh, interesting.

Marianna: 00:51:16

Yeah.

Kyle: 00:51:16

Well, I think twas destiny.

Marianna: 00:51:19

I know. Come back.

Kyle: 00:51:20

Come on back. You got a fan here. I. Man, I. I've thought about dying.

Seth: 00:51:27

Yeah.

Kyle: 00:51:27

Here's. You said something, though, that. That kind of made me think, because first of all, the prop.

One of the big problems they have with this movie is that the office stuff is way too realistic.

Seth: 00:51:36

Yeah.

Marianna: 00:51:36

Yeah.

Kyle: 00:51:37

Every single person in that office. I. I have could think of thousands of people I've encountered in corporate settings like that. Especially Isabel, Megan or Meg Stalter's character.

Seth: 00:51:48

Yeah.

Kyle: 00:51:48

The bubbly. Likes your job too much. Likes people too much. Like you. Doesn't seem to have a problem being here 40 hours a week. Like, I can't. Person.

But she was rocking it out because it was very accurate.

Seth: 00:51:59

Yeah.

Kyle: 00:52:00

But where I. Where I got off the course was the party. Maybe because no one invites me to parties. Maybe because I did.

Seth: 00:52:08

You just didn't show up.

Kyle: 00:52:09

I just didn't think you actually wanted me there. That's the funny thing. He's like. He doesn't really want me there. I've got four kids. That's self. That's just self consciousness. But I.

This party just didn't seem like a real party to me. I didn't know what these people were doing.

Seth: 00:52:23

Yeah.

Kyle: 00:52:23

You know, I just.

Seth: 00:52:25

I've been to parties like that, so it actually.

Kyle: 00:52:27

Those are real.

Seth: 00:52:28

Those are real. Yeah. It hit a little close to home for me because I've been to those parties.

Kyle: 00:52:33

I just. And I didn't. There's just not one character. Like, I just needed one character to be like, that's my homeboy.

Seth: 00:52:40

Yeah.

Kyle: 00:52:40

And there's Just not a single person in this. In this. Just one person to change the tone a little bit.

Seth: 00:52:46

Yeah.

Kyle: 00:52:46

But everything is so drab.

Seth: 00:52:48

I did love the one guy who's like, I'm a vegetarian at work. And then at the party, he's like, they all think I'm a vegetarian. That's fucking great. Crazy.

Kyle: 00:52:55

That is kind of funny. Yeah. That was Garrett. Yeah, yeah, Yeah.

Seth: 00:52:58

I love that.

Kyle: 00:52:59

I just needed someone to. I'm. And I'm big on. This is my biggest category in every movie I watch.

Because I just need someone in that supporting cast just to rise above and be like, that's. That's a well written side character.

Seth: 00:53:09

Yeah.

Kyle: 00:53:10

I just know. And maybe they. They did what they were told, but nobody did anything that just. Yeah, yeah.

Marianna: 00:53:16

This is what I'm talking about. With the production quality of, like, maybe there were some people pleasing aspects and, like, how the choices were made.

And I can tell now that it was definitely filmed in a rented, abandoned building.

Seth: 00:53:27

Yeah.

Marianna: 00:53:28

And it was filmed during COVID And I'm like, yeah, these are. These are choices.

Seth: 00:53:31

Yeah.

Marianna: 00:53:32

These are why the movie's not as good as it could be.

Kyle: 00:53:34

No one was trying to get their next gig here.

Seth: 00:53:36

Yeah.

Kyle: 00:53:36

No one was like, maybe Coppola will see this.

Seth: 00:53:38

Yeah.

Marianna: 00:53:38

It kind of felt like they were doing her a favor.

Kyle: 00:53:40

Yeah.

Marianna: 00:53:41

Maybe. Because they really like what she's done in the past. And I don't. I'm not familiar with her work, but.

Seth: 00:53:45

I know she's worked with a couple of those actors before in some of the other stuff that she's done. So I. There was probably some aspect to it there, but again, a lot of them were cast locally, so.

Marianna: 00:53:56

Yeah, well, I'm talking about, like, the actual famous people in the movie because to me, it is funny when you see, like, regular people and famous people, you're like, yeah, I can pick out the famous ones.

Seth: 00:54:05

Yeah.

Marianna: 00:54:06

They're the ones with angles on their face.

Seth: 00:54:08

Yeah.

Kyle: 00:54:11

All right. It's two to zero. We are fantastic. At this moment here, writing writers are Stephanie Abel Horowitz, Kevin Armento, and Katie Wright Mead.

It would bother. It would just be a shame if anyone had a name like Johnson or Smith on this list, because I sound like an idiot.

Seth: 00:54:30

Unfortunately, I'm gonna have to. I'm gonna think about dying on this one. I, again, had the inner monologue been in there, I might have changed my mind, but I don't know.

I don't know what was there. Just because there's. There's. There's no record of it that you can't buy the screenplay in published form, which, again, I would love to.

I would love to see what was originally up there.

But other than these, like, key moments and there's only like three or four of them throughout the whole movie, nothing is said that is interesting and nothing is said that furthers the story along. So for me, yeah, I gotta think about dying on this one.

Marianna: 00:55:05

I can't believe that there was a script or anyone wrote this. It feels kind of phoned in. It sort of feels. Feels like they were depressed when they were writing it. The depression comes through. Yeah, I just. I.

Sometimes I think about dying.

Kyle: 00:55:19

Yeah, definitely. Yeah. Not to be confused with As I Lay Dying by William Faulkner.

Marianna: 00:55:24

Great book.

Seth: 00:55:25

And the band.

Marianna: 00:55:26

That'd be a better one than this.

Seth: 00:55:27

Yeah.

Kyle: 00:55:27

Good band. Yeah.

Marianna: 00:55:28

I'm a fish. My Mother is a fish.

Kyle: 00:55:30

That's one of my favorite books.

Marianna: 00:55:31

That's that chapter when.

Kyle: 00:55:32

Whenever the dead mom in the coffin starts talking. Yeah, that part's great. I recommend you read it. I. Yeah, I. Yeah, sometimes I think about dying here. I.

This is where the most missed opportunities were. At least there were some visuals in the directing and there were some decisions made real. Like, that was. That was a good decision.

Seth: 00:55:51

Yeah.

Kyle: 00:55:52

I just feel like it was one tone going forward. Never was there a counterpoint neither. The complexity wasn't there. I just. There were never any ideas really presented in their fullness.

Seth: 00:56:02

Yeah.

Kyle: 00:56:02

And that's all on writing. You know, I just wish. I just wish more. There was more written here to challenge my thinking more.

Seth: 00:56:10

Yeah.

Kyle: 00:56:11

And that's typically, like one of the number one things when I go into movie is like, how is it even in, like, sci fi? You can walk away. Wow. That challenged my thinking.

Seth: 00:56:17

Yeah.

Kyle: 00:56:18

There's just nothing here. And. And I was expecting a lot of gravitas, so. Yeah, I give it. I give it. Sometimes I think about dying.

Marianna: 00:56:24

I never want, like, more dialogue, but, man, I did this time.

Kyle: 00:56:27

Yeah, you're big on. On space. You're a big space.

Marianna: 00:56:30

My favorite movie has no words in it. Well, I keep saying my favorite movie. I need to stop saying that. One of my favorite movies.

Kyle: 00:56:35

Yeah. Four favorite movies so far that I've.

Marianna: 00:56:37

Counted in this podcast.

Seth: 00:56:38

Yeah, you would love my senior film. Oh, I would. No dialogue in it whatsoever.

Marianna: 00:56:44

But you know what? I hate silent movies.

Seth: 00:56:45

It's not silent. It's just no dialogue.

Marianna: 00:56:47

I don't like silent movies at all. I hated the Artist. Hated it.

Seth: 00:56:50

Oh, I love that movie.

Marianna: 00:56:51

Oh, my God, I hated it.

Seth: 00:56:52

I loved it. But I also haven't seen it since the one time I saw it, so. Yeah, yeah, clearly I didn't that much. Sorry.

Marianna: 00:56:57

I got distracted.

Kyle: 00:56:58

No, I agree with you. Yeah. Directing. It's two to one. Fantastic. Thus far. Directing. Rachel Lambert.

Seth: 00:57:05

Yeah.

Kyle: 00:57:05

Who I went back to look at credits and there was nothing I recognized.

Seth: 00:57:09

Yeah, I know. She went to NYU and. I know. I know that's where it feels like it. Yeah, yeah, yeah, it kind of does.

Kyle: 00:57:16

She's not into short titles. In the radiant city and I can feel you walking. Sometimes I think about dying. She does have one culture called Ken K I n. Well, there we go.

But then she just. She had to have as many words in the title.

Seth: 00:57:27

Do you have Anything upcoming on IMDb?

Kyle: 00:57:29

Nothing in the works thus far. She does have nominations.

Seth: 00:57:32

Nice. Good for her. I genuinely want her to do more stuff. I want to see. I would love to see a movie that. That isn't hindered by a global pandemic.

I would love to see her take on something that's slightly higher concept. I would love to see her work with some. Some better cinematographers, some better art direction people.

I would love to see her utilize other people to their best because I think if she got a really solid team around her, she could put out one hell of a movie.

Kyle: 00:58:03

Yeah.

Seth: 00:58:03

Unfortunately, I have to go. I feel about dying on this or think about dying on this one. Because if. If I as the viewer. And granted, I know I am an.

I am an informed viewer in that I've worked on film set. That's. I've been around other directors who. Who, in my opinion, have done some really cool stuff, and I've seen them.

Them put out some really good work.

Having been around that, even then, as a viewer, if I'm sitting here telling myself how the movie could be better based on the things that you're showing me, sure, there's good bones, but I just. I don't think the execution was where it should have been. So I think about dying on this one.

Marianna: 00:58:38

I actually think I'm gonna go with fantastic on this one.

Seth: 00:58:41

Hell, yeah.

Marianna: 00:58:42

Because the only things that I did like about the movie, I feel like, were all the direction. And it all had to do with, like, maybe her original vision. And I do want to see what else she's gonna do.

I'd love to see what she would do with, like, almost a better production design. That office just killed my whole life.

Seth: 00:59:02

Yeah.

Marianna: 00:59:02

I was like, I hate. I hate any setting in an office, but I also hate when they don't do anything to stylize the office. Because I'm like, like this is just gross.

And I know that's what you're supposed to feel though. You're supposed to feel that.

Seth: 00:59:15

But, but there's a stylized way that you can still make it feel gross, but also make it feel interesting to be there.

Marianna: 00:59:21

I really felt like I was at the Port Authority. Yeah. This feels like I'm waiting for a dmv.

Kyle: 00:59:26

I mean even office settings have like the cokehead salesman that comes in hungover. And I had a guy that worked for me. My first company I worked for, I worked for five years.

I had a guy that we didn't know if he would come to work and when he did, sometimes he would come with bruises on his face.

Seth: 00:59:39

Oh my God.

Kyle: 00:59:39

And bandages on his nose. He would get in scuffles every weekend. Ye. You have the normal. This.

Seth: 00:59:44

Yeah.

Kyle: 00:59:44

But there is the cokehead guy getting in fights on the weekend. Maybe died.

Seth: 00:59:47

Yeah.

Kyle: 00:59:48

You never knew if Jimbo was coming in on Monday.

Seth: 00:59:50

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Marianna: 00:59:53

But I'll go. Fantastic.

Kyle: 00:59:54

Fantastic. You know, I, I'm gonna sound like a major jerk here. I don't care what this director does. I, I, I'm not gonna follow this person.

I, I've seen, I'm not saying you, you can't be four films in and, and not be show a level of mastery. But I saw, I was presented with nothing complexity wise. Yeah.

And whenever, whenever there's a limited amount of dialogue, then you're left to look at the visuals. And although there's some pretty frames of the city and the ports and the water, they're like, they're postcard esque.

They're still not images that I necessarily felt that were picturesque enough. I just was just was not presented with anything that, that convinced me that, and maybe it's just not my style.

But I, like I said I like self indulgent filmmaking, but man, I just didn't feel the weight of the story.

Seth: 01:00:43

Yeah.

Kyle: 01:00:43

And I'm just. Yeah, I gave this a. I, Sometimes I think about dying.

Seth: 01:00:47

So I mean, to compare, Christopher Nolan's fourth movie was Batman Begins.

Kyle: 01:00:52

Yeah.

Seth: 01:00:53

Like, yeah. There does come a point where it's like, no, you've really got to start pushing yourself.

Kyle: 01:00:57

Yeah. Just some grit.

Seth: 01:00:59

Yeah.

Kyle: 01:00:59

Just some sandpaper. Just something rough in here.

Seth: 01:01:02

Yeah.

Kyle: 01:01:02

We're talking about death.

Seth: 01:01:03

Exactly.

Kyle: 01:01:04

You know, just do something like. And one thing you said, Mariana, that I, we didn't really hit on too much, but like we don't know anything about this person.

And I'm okay with a contained story.

Seth: 01:01:14

Yeah.

Kyle: 01:01:14

But they could have alluded to something. Just something.

Marianna: 01:01:17

Yeah.

Kyle: 01:01:18

Outside of this stream, just to give us a little color. Yeah, just something.

Seth: 01:01:23

Well, even if. Sorry, you go ahead.

Marianna: 01:01:25

I'm sorry.

Seth: 01:01:25

No, you go for. You go first.

Marianna: 01:01:27

I thought that she was going. The end of it was going to be that she killed her grandmother. And, like, she was in the dead. In the bathroom, and that was going to be like.

Like the last shot is just her grandmother, like, literally dead on the bathroom floor.

Seth: 01:01:38

How fascinating would that have been?

Marianna: 01:01:40

I thought that it was going to be a lot more interesting than it was. You're right. It's just like there just wasn't anything. And I'm like, I. I feel like I know this girl, but, like, I wish I. I just wish there was more.

Seth: 01:01:50

Yeah. And it's like, I get that part of the whole aspect of her character, how she won't open up to. To him and.

And how she's not giving him the information. We as the viewer should then see what she's not taking. Killing him.

Kyle: 01:02:03

Yeah.

Seth: 01:02:03

We shouldn't also be like, well, what the.

Kyle: 01:02:06

Yeah.

Seth: 01:02:06

Now the story is no longer from her perspective. Now the story is just a weird fly on the wall situation where. Yeah, we're watching her, but we. We don't know anything.

And I think that's a grave misstep as a director that your audience should not leave the movie as clueless as the characters who don't know anything.

Kyle: 01:02:25

Yeah, yeah. No, you're totally right.

Marianna: 01:02:27

Also, her character doesn't really make any sense because she's like an introvert who lives alone in this grandmother house. But then somebody is nice to her for like, two sentences and she's like, let's go on a date.

Seth: 01:02:37

Yeah.

Kyle: 01:02:37

Yeah.

Marianna: 01:02:38

It's like, that person is not going to say yes to this guy. Like, why? And this guy, like, not to be a jerk, but, like, you know, he's just an office guy. He's never had a job.

Like, he's not dateable material in the story. And I'm like, she has, like, a grandmother house. She has a house, you know, And I really wanted to know more about the quiet side of town.

Seth: 01:02:56

Yeah.

Marianna: 01:02:57

There were some things I could have. Have just run with that would have been so interesting again, if she had killed her grandmother or been a serial killer or something.

Yeah, I thought she was a serial killer from the beginning.

Kyle: 01:03:06

Yeah, that would have been a great twist.

Marianna: 01:03:08

I know. I was like, I have. So there's got to be something that happens because y'all really hated this. So I was like, something must happen.

Kyle: 01:03:16

More like sometimes I think about you dying. Yeah.

Seth: 01:03:22

Yeah. Views expressed by Kyle Castro on this podcast do not represent those who are also on the podcast.

Kyle: 01:03:27

Well, I pointed at your coat, so I was inanimate object.

Seth: 01:03:30

You. The royal you.

Kyle: 01:03:33

And something you just said made me remember. Like, there's not a raucous moment.

Seth: 01:03:37

Yeah.

Kyle: 01:03:38

In this movie. Like, it's like this movie is. Is. It emotes at a dull roar. Even the party is, like, tame again. People show up to party.

I don't know why I always go back to this. Like, Jimbo, people show up coked out of their mind. Crazy happens.

Seth: 01:03:53

See, now you're definitely showing you've never been to a murder mystery party.

Kyle: 01:03:56

These are a thing.

Seth: 01:03:57

Those are. They're a thing.

Marianna: 01:03:58

Yeah, a thing.

Seth: 01:03:59

They are absolutely a thing. And that was the funny thing with me watching it, is it genuinely accurately represented the type of people that go to those parties.

Kyle: 01:04:08

Interesting.

Seth: 01:04:08

Yeah.

Kyle: 01:04:09

I guess my invitations have been getting lost in the mail all these years.

Seth: 01:04:12

Yeah.

Kyle: 01:04:12

I should really update my address.

Seth: 01:04:14

Yeah.

Kyle: 01:04:15

That's what it is, right?

Seth: 01:04:16

Them yellow pages.

Kyle: 01:04:17

Yeah. It's not my fault, is it?

Seth: 01:04:19

No.

Kyle: 01:04:20

They want me at the parties, right?

Seth: 01:04:21

It's never yours.

Kyle: 01:04:22

You guys like me, right? Yeah.

Marianna: 01:04:24

No. No.

Kyle: 01:04:25

I mean, sometimes I think about you dying.

Marianna: 01:04:28

I don't know.

Kyle: 01:04:28

Yeah. You're stunt Mariana. You're just a fantasy of a mind. You're a nice guy.

Marianna: 01:04:36

Yes. Human music.

Kyle: 01:04:38

Yes.

Seth: 01:04:38

Yes.

Marianna: 01:04:39

I knew you guys.

Seth: 01:04:39

Thank you.

Kyle: 01:04:41

Yes. I don't belong here on my own podcast. It's two to two. It's two to two. We're kind of thinking about dying. It's kind of fantastic.

All right, what's in front of us? Cinematography, production design, sound, costumes. And. And out of character, I'd even put the names of the people that did these things.

Seth: 01:04:59

As a sound designer, the sound design infuriated me during this movie. Sometimes I wondered if Rachel Lambert knew what a Lavalier mic was. Sometimes I.

But then there were other times where I'm like, well, she clearly does, because they're 200ft away from the camera and I can hear them perfectly. Like, there was. There's so many little things that I could have just done to get in there and. And fix every issue that I had with it.

However, on top of that, I do think 90% of the. Of the cinematography was fantastic. There were some times where I was like, this is a terrible choice. Why. Why are we looking at her tits in her.

In her oversized sweater while she's clicking on. On a mouse like why don't we see. Why do we just see her chin? Why can't we see the rest of her face?

There were definitely some choices that were made that I was not a fan of. However, I. I'm gonna give what I don't think is too generous of a fantastic. I do think there was a lot of good there.

I think there was a lot of intentionality there. Again, I just don't 100 think it. It. It all came together, but enough that I would say it was fantastic.

Marianna: 01:06:09

I feel like, fantastic. I feel like it was the good stuff in the movie. I think I liked. I like. I mean, I liked the cinematography.

I hated the costumes, but I would hate the costumes because, like. Like, I did fashion design for a long time. I'm just like. And I was a stylist for a long time, so I'm like.

I just feel like there is this version of styling where it looks like you just went to Target and got whatever was on sale. And that's kind of what it felt like. Like nobody felt real.

Seth: 01:06:35

Yeah.

Marianna: 01:06:35

There just wasn't a lot of realism in, like, especially her choices in clothes. And I know the colors were great.

Seth: 01:06:40

Yeah.

Marianna: 01:06:41

And they. They went with the story, but I just. I was like. I feel like this girl would be wearing like. Like a nightgown. Like a. Like something crazy. Like.

I don't know.

Seth: 01:06:51

Yeah.

Marianna: 01:06:51

I just think they. That was kind of a missed opportunity. I think they could have made her a lot more interesting.

Seth: 01:06:56

Yeah.

Marianna: 01:06:56

Even just with clothes.

Seth: 01:06:58

Yeah. But you're still fantastic brand.

Marianna: 01:07:00

Yeah.

Kyle: 01:07:00

That's a lot of negatives for a fantastic.

Seth: 01:07:02

It really. I mean, it's one aspect of it, though.

Kyle: 01:07:04

Yeah.

Seth: 01:07:05

Yeah.

Marianna: 01:07:05

That's a lot to group into one question.

Seth: 01:07:07

Yeah.

Marianna: 01:07:07

But the cinematography and the production design, I really did enjoy.

Kyle: 01:07:10

Okay.

Seth: 01:07:10

Yeah.

Kyle: 01:07:11

Cool. That's awesome.

Marianna: 01:07:11

Yeah.

Kyle: 01:07:12

Well, it doesn't matter, but I did go. Sometimes I think about that.

Seth: 01:07:15

I figured you would. We all knew.

Kyle: 01:07:17

Yeah. And it doesn't help that we're sandwiching this movie in between Drive and this and the Shining.

Seth: 01:07:22

Yeah.

Kyle: 01:07:22

Movies that are visually the. Some of the most compelling visual films ever.

Seth: 01:07:27

Yeah.

Kyle: 01:07:28

With color and with widescreen and with lenses.

Marianna: 01:07:31

We should be doing the substance.

Kyle: 01:07:33

Oh, I saw you post about that. I haven't seen it yet.

Seth: 01:07:36

Is it out on streaming yet?

Marianna: 01:07:37

Yes, it's on movie.

Kyle: 01:07:38

I heard it's like, the craziest body horror.

Marianna: 01:07:41

It's my favorite body horror.

Seth: 01:07:42

Okay, good to know. We'll put on the list French director.

Marianna: 01:07:44

French female director.

Kyle: 01:07:46

French.

Marianna: 01:07:47

Frank. She's French.

Kyle: 01:07:49

Yeah. I. I Just. Yeah, I just was looking after. I. After I wasn't feeling challenged by the dialogue or the ideas the movie was presenting me with.

I then went to the visuals, to the camera work, and again, pretty pictures, postcards of the city, of the lake or the water, and of the dock and all that stuff. But I just didn't see any sensibility in that area. And I. I didn't see a director that. Or a team that was thinking in images. So they.

But they also weren't really thinking in complex ideas or dialogue. I'm just like, where is this movie? You know, indie films. That's what they do is like. They surprise you.

Marianna: 01:08:27

Yeah, Yeah.

Kyle: 01:08:28

I was, like, waiting for my surprise, you know, like in politics. What's my October surprise surprise?

Seth: 01:08:33

My biggest surprise was that they went to a Chinese restaurant for pie.

Kyle: 01:08:36

Yeah.

Seth: 01:08:38

And Irish coffees.

Kyle: 01:08:40

Yeah.

Seth: 01:08:40

Yeah.

Kyle: 01:08:41

That's hilarious.

Seth: 01:08:42

Yeah.

Kyle: 01:08:42

What do they call them? Too drunk too. They have name for their. Their Irish coffee. She had a name for it.

Seth: 01:08:47

I forget what it was.

Kyle: 01:08:49

That was funny. Yeah.

Seth: 01:08:51

Yeah.

Marianna: 01:08:52

That was an interesting choice. Although it is funny, when you go to Chinese restaurants, they do have, like, all these weird American dishes where you're like, do you need this?

And it's like, they do.

Seth: 01:09:00

They clearly really need French fries here.

Marianna: 01:09:03

I know. And. But they do.

Kyle: 01:09:04

Yeah.

Seth: 01:09:05

Yeah.

Kyle: 01:09:05

They gotta have them and they gotta be horrible and soggy, but they're there. That's all that matters. Three to two. We are fantastic thus far.

This category is called Speaking Volumes, and this is about the lack of dialogue, but also the focusing in on the choice of removing that diet. That inner dialogue.

Seth: 01:09:22

Yeah.

Kyle: 01:09:23

Was that a big mishap or was it better that they left it out?

Seth: 01:09:26

I think it was a very big mishap. I think it. And again, I can't speak definitively because I haven't seen what was there.

For all I know, the inner monologue that was written could have ruined this even more. Like, it could have just made it the worst thing possible. And she saved what was left of the movie by taking it out.

For all I know, that could be the case. My inkling is that removing that made us focus on everything that didn't matter better. And. And.

And for me, personally, took my focus away from what did matter, which was trying to understand the character that Daisy was playing, this character of Fran. Why is she feeling this way? What are all of these things that she's genuinely focusing on as far as, like, dying?

Like, none of those questions were really answered, ever. They were just kind of presented and then left so, yeah, I gotta think about dialing that one.

Marianna: 01:10:21

What's the question?

Kyle: 01:10:23

Speaking volume. So basically focusing on the. On the minimal dialogue, but also on this decision to remove that inner monologue.

It was that kind of a death nail for the movie, or you think that was a good choice?

Marianna: 01:10:33

No, I think it was a death nail. That was kind of what I was missing in it. On. I wish that there had just been more or less or something. I don't know. It's hard to say.

They could have just done the vignettes and, like, everything with the office and just little snippets of Meg Stalter at the office, and I feel like it would have been more powerful.

Seth: 01:10:52

Yeah.

Marianna: 01:10:52

Just like it made me feel like I was at work.

Seth: 01:10:54

Yeah.

Kyle: 01:10:55

Yeah.

Marianna: 01:10:55

Yeah.

Kyle: 01:10:56

It does make you feel like you're at work. That is actually the. That's actually the new title of the movie.

Seth: 01:11:01

Sometimes I feel like I'm at work.

Marianna: 01:11:04

Yeah, no, it felt like work watching the movie, too, which is what I don't like in a movie. I want to be hypnotized and feel like I'm on mushrooms.

Seth: 01:11:12

Yep.

Marianna: 01:11:12

Yeah.

Kyle: 01:11:12

And can we be real? Like, is it really that weird that when you're at work, you think about dying? Because don't we all think about dying when we're at work?

Marianna: 01:11:18

Yeah, I know.

Kyle: 01:11:19

Your mental position is.

Marianna: 01:11:20

Yeah, I know. I was like, this is.

Seth: 01:11:22

And it's not like you even have a bad job. You have a good job that lets you afford a house.

Kyle: 01:11:27

Yeah.

Seth: 01:11:28

In this economy.

Marianna: 01:11:29

She killed her grandmother for it.

Kyle: 01:11:31

Yes.

Marianna: 01:11:31

I feel like that was. That was clear.

Kyle: 01:11:34

That's the boon. That's the boon to this whole thing.

Seth: 01:11:37

That's where all those bugs came from. In that one. Yes.

Marianna: 01:11:40

No, it's clear to me that she killed her grandmother and she lives in an abandoned house. House on the bad side of town. I'm not even kidding. This all makes sense to me.

Seth: 01:11:51

Yeah.

Marianna: 01:11:51

I think they would agree.

Kyle: 01:11:53

Yeah. So sometimes you think about going to work on this one.

Marianna: 01:11:55

Yeah.

Kyle: 01:11:56

Yeah, I. I sometimes think about going to work on this one, too. And I. I don't know if I could say it better than how you said it.

You feel like you're at work watching it. That actually just crushed me. I'm trying not to laugh. I'm trying not to laugh again because that is actually. I couldn't just.

You know when someone else describes something the way. Like, what you're thinking, but you haven't put words. You just put, like, a perfect description. I felt like I was watching work The. The.

The problem with the lack of inner monologue is that the director has chosen to put us as the viewer, in a very weird position.

Seth: 01:12:24

Yeah.

Kyle: 01:12:25

You. You read what a movie's about when you go in to watch it. Right. And you had told me so I knew what this movie was about a little bit.

And I feel like, okay, I'm gearing up to care about this character. And then simultaneously, I feel like she's telling me, don't care about this person.

And so, like, like, you want to be sympathetic and empathetic to this character, but they're not really giving me anything to care about. And it makes you feel guilty. It's like. But I know I should care. I just didn't like being in that position.

Seth: 01:12:49

Yeah.

Kyle: 01:12:50

You know, I just was like, I'm trying to care, but, like, why?

Seth: 01:12:53

And I made uncomfortable in the worst. In the. In the wrong way.

Kyle: 01:12:56

Yeah.

Marianna: 01:12:56

It's like this.

Kyle: 01:12:58

Yeah.

Seth: 01:13:00

I can see why you hate yourself.

Marianna: 01:13:02

I know. I was like, you seem like the most, like, work as a friend and a person.

Seth: 01:13:08

You're the exhausting one.

Marianna: 01:13:09

Yeah. No, she is exhausting.

Seth: 01:13:11

Yeah.

Marianna: 01:13:11

She really is. I wouldn't want to be friends with her. She's a lot.

Kyle: 01:13:14

Yeah. The most vocal she got. She insulted the dude, like, with one of the worst insults ever. It's like, oh, yeah, I don't care about you.

Seth: 01:13:20

And it was clearly projecting.

Kyle: 01:13:22

Yes.

Marianna: 01:13:23

Yes.

Seth: 01:13:23

All right, we're tied.

Kyle: 01:13:24

We are tied. I love these situations.

Seth: 01:13:26

Awesome.

Kyle: 01:13:27

Yes. Sometimes I think about ties. This last category, it's actually picked Piggy. Not on purpose, but piggybacking on this concept of the Office.

It's called the Office. How does this work as not just an Office based drama, but the. The Office stuff is this. In kind of this idea, you feel like you're watching work.

That is where the majority of this film is made.

Seth: 01:13:49

Yeah.

Kyle: 01:13:50

And that's where the ideas are supposedly being lobbed our way in this movie. What do we think about this as an office based setting film? All that.

Seth: 01:13:58

That. I like to start on this one.

Marianna: 01:13:59

I hate it. And I feel like I'm not a cinematographer. I didn't go to school for it.

I don't know anything about it, but I also feel like I could have done a better job.

Seth: 01:14:08

Yeah.

Marianna: 01:14:08

You know what I mean? Like, it feels like they phoned it in so hard in the Office scenes. Even the angles of the Office scenes.

It feels like I'm like, you could have ripped out a wall, done something, or just had an interesting. Even like a. Like a GoPro.

Or something to make the Office just feel more like the emotions you're trying to feel as opposed to just being like dying slowly in an office.

Seth: 01:14:35

Yeah.

I think something could have been done to give us a little inkling into what her brain makes her think is happening because clearly she thinks everyone's happier than she is.

Marianna: 01:14:48

Yeah.

Seth: 01:14:49

And. But. But we don't see that. We just see them living normal. Yeah. We just see them being normal.

It would have been cool to see moments of like over exaggerated, more stylized versions of them all being happy about nothing while she's sitting here dying inside it. It literally. I think something that could have saved the movie is if the Office had felt.

And I don't think she should have gone to this extreme, but a little bit more Wes Anderson. Timeless. Like kooky. Like something a little bit outside of reality. That made the Office eccentric. Yes.

That would have made the Office itself feel like a different character. The juxtaposition of her house versus the Office, where the Office is a place where she's sad and uncomfortable in this colorful and happy place.

I think it should have been the antithesis of everything that she was. And it wasn't. It was every bit as depressing as she was.

Kyle: 01:15:48

Yeah, yeah. Because when you work at a place, you're going. So you're going.

Seth: 01:15:51

I'm going. I'm thinking about.

Kyle: 01:15:52

Yeah, yeah. When you work at a place like. And I haven't.

I mean, I tend to job hop a little bit, but I was at a place for five years and when you work with people for a long time, their desk become corroded with their.

Seth: 01:16:02

Yep.

Kyle: 01:16:03

Their family pictures, their sports teams. Like, people, like cubicles just become like crustaceans of who they are.

Seth: 01:16:10

Yeah.

Kyle: 01:16:11

You know, it's like they're. They're like evolving inside of like, that's their shell.

Marianna: 01:16:15

Yeah, yeah. Hermit crabs.

Kyle: 01:16:16

Yes.

Marianna: 01:16:17

Yeah.

Kyle: 01:16:17

And supposedly this lady is retiring after how many years?

Seth: 01:16:20

Like probably 30.

Kyle: 01:16:22

And her desk is spotless. Maybe she cleaned it that day, but there's literally not a sign that anyone ever worked there.

Marianna: 01:16:27

Yeah, yeah.

Seth: 01:16:27

She's still giving away. Like, you should see all this. Like you. There should be two boxes full of personal items.

Kyle: 01:16:34

Yes.

Marianna: 01:16:35

Yeah.

Seth: 01:16:35

And there's not. There's just a kind of empty box with. With. With a calculator and a hole puncher.

Kyle: 01:16:39

Yeah.

Marianna: 01:16:40

That's why none of them seem real.

Kyle: 01:16:41

Yeah, yeah. Cuz as much as like at surface level, you're thinking, oh my gosh, I feel like I'm at work. This feels like an office.

But then you're like, oh, this is a car. I used to use this word too much, but I was like, this is a caricature of an office. It's like, everyone's the same. Everyone's got the same desk.

No one's got any decorations. Like, the donuts are kind of like a. Whoa, Donuts. That happens. But, yeah, I. Sometimes I think about dying on this one.

Seth: 01:17:02

Yeah.

Marianna: 01:17:02

It's like, if AI were to make an office setting, you know, they, like, made the worst version of. Of it.

Seth: 01:17:09

Yeah.

Kyle: 01:17:09

Yes. We ended up. Sometimes we think about dying on this one.

Seth: 01:17:13

Just squeaked by. Like I said, lots of good about this movie, but unfortunately, I think the missteps overshadowed what was good.

Kyle: 01:17:20

I. I think, like, you said, like, yeah, there's. I. We actually were more positive than I thought. And I.

I appreciate you both bringing more to my attention about things I missed. There are some things that you said that I was like, oh, I did miss that.

Seth: 01:17:30

Yeah.

Kyle: 01:17:30

Also, I love thank you for bringing a movie that I had that I wasn't even in my world.

Seth: 01:17:34

Yeah.

Kyle: 01:17:34

So that was nice.

Marianna: 01:17:35

I'm glad I watched it. I wish it was rewatchable. Yeah. Agree.

Kyle: 01:17:39

Yeah. And I hate it's so hard being critical of an indie film because, like, on the other hand, I'm always like, we need more indie filmmakers.

We gotta get away from this corporate machine. And then I watch one, I'm like, that sucks.

Marianna: 01:17:50

But most indie films suck. That's what's good about it. Because when you get to the gyms, you're like, well, I'm gonna watch that for the rest of my life.

Seth: 01:17:57

Yes.

Marianna: 01:17:57

A year.

Kyle: 01:17:57

I need Clerks again. Can we do that?

Marianna: 01:17:59

Yeah.

Kyle: 01:18:00

Reinvent that whole thing.

Seth: 01:18:01

Yeah.

Kyle: 01:18:02

Well, hopefully, y'all, sometimes you think about living. We want you to live. And we love you and share.

Seth: 01:18:08

Share this podcast with other people.

Marianna: 01:18:11

Comment, Comment. Leave your comment.

Seth: 01:18:13

I'm sure you've got depressed friends. They should hear this.

Kyle: 01:18:15

Yes. And this will be coming out in or around the holidays. This is the perfect holiday movie. Yeah.

Marianna: 01:18:21

Watch it with your family on Christmas.

Kyle: 01:18:23

Yes. Whatever you celebrate, I hope it's a time of joy with your family. I mean that from the bottom of my heart. Love you guys.

It's been an amazing year with Movie Wars. Thank you so much. And thank you too.

Seth: 01:18:32

Absolutely.

Kyle: 01:18:33

I'm Kyle.

Seth: 01:18:34

I'm Seth.

Marianna: 01:18:34

I'm Mariana.

Kyle: 01:18:35

Love y'all.