Zack Snyder's Justice League (2021)
The culmination of our exploration into the Snyder Trilogy series has arrived, as we delve into the intricacies of Zack Snyder's Justice League, a project emblematic of the profound influence of fan advocacy in contemporary cinema. The episode is punctuated by a thoughtful examination of the transformative journey from the initial theatrical release to the acclaimed Snyder Cut, which has engendered a fervent discourse surrounding artistic integrity and creator vision. We will scrutinize pivotal themes, such as the depth of character development afforded to figures like Cyborg and the ramifications of the narrative's darker undertones. In the context of James Gunn's recent Superman trailer, we reflect upon the evolution of the superhero genre and its intersection with societal expectations. Join us as we navigate the complexities and nuances that define this cinematic landscape, culminating in a comprehensive assessment of Snyder's artistic contributions and the resultant legacy of his work.
Takeaways:
- The Snyder Cut represents a significant turning point in fan influence over film production, showcasing the power of social media campaigns.
- In this episode, we critically analyze the contrasts between Zack Snyder's Justice League and the theatrical version, emphasizing character depth and narrative coherence.
- The introduction of Darkseid adds a layer of complexity to the plot, enhancing the stakes and the overall story arc of the DCEU.
- Cyborg's character development serves as a compelling focal point, illustrating themes of identity and belonging within a superhero context.
- The podcast delves into the stylistic choices of Snyder's direction, particularly his use of slow motion and visual storytelling techniques that polarize audiences.
- Ultimately, this installment of the Snyder Trilogy series reflects on the potential future of the DCEU and the possibilities that lay beyond the Snyder Cut.
Companies mentioned in this episode:
- Warner Brothers
- HBO Max
- Netflix
Mentioned in this episode:
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Transcript
Foreign.
Speaker A:Ladies and gentlemen, welcome back to the Movie wars podcast.
Speaker B:We did it.
Speaker B:We're here.
Speaker A:We're back.
Speaker A:Seth and Drew are back.
Speaker C:I'm always here.
Speaker A:You're always here.
Speaker B:Literally.
Speaker B:It's at your house.
Speaker C:It's my house.
Speaker A:It's been a journey.
Speaker A:A journey that I wouldn't have been brought on.
Speaker A:One thing I've loved about having you guys as part of the show is that you've pushed me to do new things.
Speaker A:Old Movie wars fans know I don't typically dabble, but I'm glad we went on this journey and where I want to start today.
Speaker A:And you're going to provide a very.
Speaker A:You're very detailed and knowledge about all the drama and the things that happened with the Snyder cut.
Speaker A:I found out about it much later because I just didn't care.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:But I have never been so divided on a movie.
Speaker A:We're talking about the Snyder's Cut Justice.
Speaker C:League, officially known as Zack Snyder's Justice League.
Speaker A:Officially.
Speaker A:If you want to go look it up.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker A:I.
Speaker A:You know, I'm so on the fence because it's hard to.
Speaker A:I don't know if you feel this way, but it's hard to eliminate the external noise of everything that happened.
Speaker C:Yes.
Speaker B:Good point.
Speaker A:It's really hard now because a lot of the movies I love faced a lot of drought, like Apocalypse now, went through so much drama.
Speaker A:But I found out about it 40 years later.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker A:And we didn't have the Internet.
Speaker C:Was that alive when the drama was happening?
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:All the stuff was happening in.
Speaker A:In the Philippines.
Speaker A:And they found out about the newspaper six months after it happens.
Speaker A:Like, oh, Martin Sheen had a heart attack.
Speaker A:That's unfortunate.
Speaker A:He seems fine now.
Speaker A:But, you know, I'm on the fence for a lot of reasons.
Speaker A:One of them is there are so many setups for future films that never are going to happen and won't happen.
Speaker A:The premonition at the end actually got me really excited.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:For nothing.
Speaker A:For.
Speaker A:I was like, we have a category for this good lore.
Speaker A:And that's for me, for these two.
Speaker A:They're a little more knowledgeable.
Speaker A:But for me, is it.
Speaker A:Does it hook me into wanting to know more and to keep going?
Speaker A:It's so hard for me because finally we're at the end of this journey and finally something I really sink my teeth into.
Speaker B:Absolutely.
Speaker A:There were moments in B vers.
Speaker A:B Batman versus Superman.
Speaker A:There were moments in man of Steel that said, I can keep going.
Speaker A:That premonition was like, I want that.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:And then I felt the same way.
Speaker A:I Felt that way.
Speaker A:But then instantly disappointment washed over me when I said, never going to happen.
Speaker B:Absolutely.
Speaker A:He's wearing that trench coat.
Speaker A:He's got the gun.
Speaker A:I mean, we got.
Speaker A:What's his face.
Speaker A:What's the sniper guy's name again?
Speaker A:Dead.
Speaker C:Oh, Deadshot.
Speaker A:We got Deadshot.
Speaker A:We got like we're partnering with the Joker.
Speaker A:Even though we want to kill the Joker.
Speaker A:It's like, I want this movie.
Speaker C:I take that back.
Speaker C:It was Deathstroke.
Speaker A:Death stroke.
Speaker B:I was.
Speaker B:I was trying.
Speaker B:I was holding it in.
Speaker B:And I glad you said it, but I didn't want to be that guy.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:Stroker Rain.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:Joe Manganiello.
Speaker C:Fucking love him.
Speaker C:I feel so bad for how shafted he was by all of this because he would have been.
Speaker C:He would have been so good.
Speaker B:I am with you.
Speaker B:I remember when I watched this.
Speaker B:This was my third time, third four hour stint into the Snyder verse.
Speaker B:I've given this.
Speaker B:This man in this movie 12 hours of my life.
Speaker B:But I remember it was the second time when I watched it with my friends and afterwards and we saw that premonition sign scene and we're like, that was awesome.
Speaker A:Well, yeah.
Speaker A:It's hard.
Speaker B:It's like, well, I guess we'll never see what happens here.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker A:You know, and.
Speaker A:And also jokingly, the question, even though this is a really watered down version, it's like, what happens when you take a really bad movie and add two hours to it?
Speaker A:You know, it's like, obviously that's a very watered down.
Speaker C:Or it's like take two hours out of it and then put another three hours and 15 minutes into it.
Speaker A:Yes, exactly.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:I'm like, does it make it better?
Speaker A:You know?
Speaker A:You know, and so I find myself like, I was texting you in real time.
Speaker A:I was like, the first half of this movie kind of drags.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker A:I'm having a hard time.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:And then Cyborg hooks me in hard.
Speaker B:That probably for me too.
Speaker A:When Cyborg kicks in, that got me in.
Speaker A:And then like from.
Speaker A:I would say, like from the 70 mark on.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker A:I'm like, in.
Speaker A:But I'm like, it leaves me.
Speaker A:Because this is not.
Speaker A:I wouldn't call this the definitive cut.
Speaker A:I would call this a whatever you want.
Speaker C:Everything cut.
Speaker A:It's the everything cut.
Speaker A:We still don't have a definitive cut of this movie.
Speaker B:Where.
Speaker A:Somewhere between Joss Whedon not being a dick.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker A:And Zack Snider not getting the opportunity to do a four and a half hour movie.
Speaker A:Like, where is that sweet spot?
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker A:And here's the Thing, I have a lot of respect for Zack Snyder, considering what he went through here.
Speaker A:And like I said in the last episode, I'm championing him.
Speaker A:I want his next one to be a banger.
Speaker A:He deserves an opportunity.
Speaker A:But I didn't like 300.
Speaker A:I thought I didn't, you know, I, I, I thought it was interesting and neat from almost like a, like a.
Speaker A:Oh, I've never seen something like this before, but I just think so.
Speaker A:I, I still personally don't know who Zack Snyder is as a director.
Speaker A:I know what his trademarks are, I know what his visual, and I do like his visual style.
Speaker A:But can this man make a complete film?
Speaker A:I feel like we still don't know Watchmen.
Speaker A:I mean, I guess Watchman's really good.
Speaker C:Watchman's fantastic.
Speaker A:I do like the Watchman.
Speaker A:It's just been years since I've seen it.
Speaker C:Sucker Punch is one that's pretty divisive.
Speaker C:But if I remember correctly, overall, people thought it was decent, but not as best.
Speaker C:Most recently, because he did do.
Speaker C:Oh, what is it?
Speaker C:He did another zombie movie with Tig Notaro and Dave Bautista and a bunch of people after Justice League and the whole fiasco there, man.
Speaker B:What was the name of that?
Speaker C:Because he did dawn of the Dead as his very first big feature, but before he did 300.
Speaker B:And this is another army of Dead.
Speaker C:Army of the Dead.
Speaker C:That's what it is.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:I was just thinking to myself, cause like, you guys let me know when I'm allowed to do my Zack Snyder rant.
Speaker B:But I'd forgotten that he did that movie.
Speaker B:And I actually really liked I need to see it.
Speaker C:I've never seen it.
Speaker C:Or dawn of the Dead.
Speaker C:Most recently though, he's done the Rebel Moon movies, which similar situation to Justice League.
Speaker C:Netflix came to him and said because, because he wrote Rebel Moon initially as a Star wars movie and he knew George Lucas or Lucasfilm and Disney would never touch it.
Speaker C:Like, he, he brought it to a couple of the exacts.
Speaker C:They were like, it's cool.
Speaker C:But yeah, we're, we just, we're not going to do it.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker C:So Netflix bought it.
Speaker C:He reimagined it to be its own world.
Speaker C:Obviously very Star wars based.
Speaker C:But long story short, Netflix said, we'll let you make whatever you want to make.
Speaker C:You just have to deliver PG13 versions of it to us for first.
Speaker C:So he delivers a shorter cut.
Speaker C:It gets critically panned.
Speaker C:The audience doesn't love it.
Speaker C:I watched the original ones, they were okay.
Speaker C:But then he puts out his actual director's Cuts, which was his initial plan from the get go.
Speaker C:Miles better.
Speaker C:So much more fun to watch.
Speaker C:All the complaints people had about things not being fleshed out enough got fleshed out like.
Speaker C:So he tends to keep getting put through the ringer where he's like, let me make my movie.
Speaker C:But everyone's like, no, no, no, we want our version first.
Speaker B:Well, maybe it's cause everyone's like, we don't want a four hour version of this movie.
Speaker C:See, that's the thing though is it's like if you're gonna watch a Peter Jackson movie, you're gonna watch a movie that's at least three hours long.
Speaker C:If you're gonna watch a Quentin Tarantino movie, it's gonna be insanely violent at points and there's gonna be a ton of foot shots.
Speaker C:If you're going to watch a Zack Snyder movie, it's going to be long form storytelling and there's gonna be a lot of slow motion.
Speaker C:If you don't like his style, then that's fine, but stop asking directors to do the thing that they don't do.
Speaker C:Let them do their thing.
Speaker C:Let their people who love it have fun with it, but stop forcing people in doing their thing.
Speaker C:So if you want, I can quickly go into the history of how this happened with Zack Snyder's Justice League and then you can go on your rant.
Speaker C: so basically what happened is: Speaker C:And it was okay in the reviews, but most of the hardcore fans were like, what the was this?
Speaker C:Because it was the exact opposite of everything Zack Snyder had done before with, with man of Steel bbs.
Speaker C:And even with his fingers being in Wonder Woman, you can, you can feel the tone that he had set for the DCEU at the time.
Speaker C:So when Justice League comes out, everyone is like, what the actual.
Speaker C:This is not clearly not a Zack Snyder movie.
Speaker C:What is going on?
Speaker C:Then everyone kind of let it die for about a year until Ben Affleck, his solo movie, goes away.
Speaker C:Ray Fisher starts complaining and starts suing Warner Brothers and Joss Whedon over what happened.
Speaker C:And I think it was Jason Momoa who first brought up the fact that, oh yeah, there is a Snyder cut.
Speaker C:He's like, Zack Snyder has a different version of the movie.
Speaker C:And I've seen it and it's awesome.
Speaker C:He's like, it's not finished.
Speaker C:There's a couple things that need to be tweaked and the visual effects need to happen, but it's a great version of the movie and that launched an entire Internet campaign called hashtag RestoreTheSnyderverse or release the Snyder Cut.
Speaker C:Both of those were a thing.
Speaker C:Now, as the years went on and as people have come out about it, you have the.
Speaker C:The heads at Warner Brothers, before James Gunn took over talking about how, oh, this was a bullshit campaign.
Speaker C:It was all fueled by bots like, Snyder fans are the worst.
Speaker C:They fucking bullied us into releasing this movie.
Speaker C:They're pieces of shit.
Speaker C:Everyone calls it the Snyder cult because they're.
Speaker C:They're so passionate about what they were going to get and what they wanted to see.
Speaker C:And yes, this is coming from the guy who's been banned from the Snyder Cut subreddit.
Speaker C:So take it as you will.
Speaker B:So I think you should.
Speaker B:I should.
Speaker B:I think you should be an admin for that.
Speaker C:I should have.
Speaker C:But fuck them.
Speaker C:Here's what happened, though.
Speaker C:Covid rolls around.
Speaker C:Covid happens Zack Snyder's pen up at home, and he's going back through his version.
Speaker C:And on Vero, he starts releasing images and little, little teasers.
Speaker C:He was like, oh, yeah, here's.
Speaker C:Here's what.
Speaker C:Here's a little hint at what Steppenwolf actually looked like in my version.
Speaker C:And everyone starts flying, freaking out.
Speaker C:They're like, what in the world?
Speaker C:This is insane.
Speaker C:Every time he releases a new picture, it just floods the Internet with hashtag, release the Snyder cut.
Speaker C:And so because things were really slow at Warner Brothers during the pandemic, they were like, fine, we need to put something out soon anyways.
Speaker C: ey announced in the middle of: Speaker C:And when it comes out, it is pretty much universally compared to Justice League where everyone is like, this was insane.
Speaker C:What the fuck happened?
Speaker C:Why did we just get the ruined version?
Speaker C:And now, obviously, since then, there's still a Restore the Snyderverse campaign that is at this point.
Speaker C:People just need to let it go, okay?
Speaker C:It's not coming back.
Speaker C:I.
Speaker C:Believe me, I wish we could get Ben Affleck solo movie.
Speaker C:I wish we could get Justice League 2 and 3.
Speaker C:And I wish we could get man of Steel 2.
Speaker C:You.
Speaker C:We're not going to let it go.
Speaker C:However, that is how we got the Snyder cut in its four hour entity, which again, I call it the everything cut.
Speaker C:I don't think it's what he was going to put into theaters, but since he's like, fine, this is the only chance I'm going to get to put out what I want to put out.
Speaker C:As far as this story is concerned, he just left everything in.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker C:So that's what got us to hear.
Speaker C:We'll have a little bit of a discussion on long form storytelling as far as why things look the way they do.
Speaker C:But please, I am excited, ladies and gentlemen.
Speaker C:Drew Davis is about to give us his first Movie wars rant.
Speaker C:And I am so pumped for this.
Speaker A:We've been loving the rants lately.
Speaker A:In fact, I think we're going to have a sideshow just about Rants.
Speaker B:Yes, rants.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Rant Wars.
Speaker C:I want to hear.
Speaker C:Please tell us your unadulterated thoughts.
Speaker B:Well, I was just going to talk about Zack Snyder and movie directing.
Speaker B:But anyway.
Speaker B:Okay.
Speaker B:So I've.
Speaker B:This is this.
Speaker B:I'm glad that we've done this movie rewatch of the Snyder cut versions of the movies man of Steel through the Snyder Cut Justice League.
Speaker B:And it has made me sit down and really focus on Snyder directing and movie.
Speaker B:And I have a lot of thoughts about superhero movies because I'm such a fan of superhero movies.
Speaker B:I.
Speaker B:I'm somewhere in between.
Speaker B:This was a good movie and like understanding why they called it a Snyder cult.
Speaker B:Yeah, because like here's my thing with watching Zack Snyder's versions of these superhero movies.
Speaker B:On one hand, I love anything superhero content.
Speaker B:So like as a nerd, I remember when the Snyder cut came out, I watched it by myself.
Speaker B:I got together with friends and watched it.
Speaker B:We had a wonderful time this week.
Speaker B:When I sat down it took me three sits downs to give myself up for four hours to this movie.
Speaker C:Again, very quick side note, he did say when he released it that he broke it up into those chapters specifically for that.
Speaker C:You are actually watching it in one of the ways he agreed he intended to.
Speaker C:Please continue.
Speaker B:Here's my overall problem is I think it's like you were saying, Kyle, we want Snyder to win where champion him as a director, as a person.
Speaker B:He's gone through a lot.
Speaker B:He's put a lot into this.
Speaker B:I love his stories.
Speaker B:I'm not a big fan of his directing style.
Speaker C:That's fair.
Speaker B:And here's the reasons why is I feel like visually they are great, wonderful.
Speaker B:I can get behind that.
Speaker B:But I struggle with him telling a good story and then especially when you're relating it to the superheroes like with stuff that I already.
Speaker B:With stuff that already exists.
Speaker B:I feel like that's almost for a director that has to be harder to take something already made and putting your own spin on it and having a successful story.
Speaker B:But the thing is is I get so frustrated with the cult being like no it's just a fantastic story.
Speaker B:Like, it's like this is Zack Snyder, not Jesus Christ.
Speaker C:You know, like, despite all the Christ parallels in man of the Old, I.
Speaker B:Just, of course we all have our, you know, the series that we think is without fail.
Speaker B:So I'll use mine as an example.
Speaker B:I'm a huge Fast and Furious fan.
Speaker C:You and Christopher Nolan?
Speaker B:Exactly.
Speaker B:I'm a part of a group that is a huge fast and fur like following.
Speaker B:But here's the big difference between them and the Snyder cult.
Speaker B:With the exception of Vin Diesel, most people that watch Fast and Furious will look at it and point out the obvious flaws and be like, well, yeah, it is over the top.
Speaker B:Yeah, there's plot's not very strong.
Speaker B:Yeah, they make stupid connections just for the fun of reincorporating the same actors and characters.
Speaker B:But that's part of the fun of the movie.
Speaker B:Whereas oftentimes when we look and point out the flaws of the Snyderverse, we're often told, no, it's a fantastic plot.
Speaker B:You just don't understand the over.
Speaker B:And I did my homework before last week.
Speaker B:I did my homework, I read everything where it was going and my first thought was like, that could have been interesting and fun to watch.
Speaker B:And then my next thought was like, it'd be just as boring as the other movies I've watched by him.
Speaker B:It would be slow motion, the characters would not be given justice.
Speaker B:Unintentional pun there.
Speaker B:And so I just really, when it comes down to with movies, we all have our personal tastes and it's totally okay to like or dislike whatever you like or dislike.
Speaker B:And you can appreciate things and you can look at things and say, they're not for me.
Speaker B:And it's only when you look at someone else and they're like, you are dumb for having that opinion that I feel like you're wrong.
Speaker B:But I feel like I live in this world where I'm being told no Zack Snyder stuff is perfect and there's no, there's no room for error.
Speaker B:And I'm like, it wasn't that good.
Speaker B:Like, it was fine.
Speaker B:It was fun.
Speaker B:The nerd in me, any superhero content I'm all for.
Speaker B:But after watching these movies, like I would be one, my life would be so much better if I never have to watch this four hour movie again.
Speaker B:3.
Speaker B:Three is fine for me.
Speaker C:Yeah, yeah, I watch it once a year at least.
Speaker C:I don't know.
Speaker C:But again, I enjoy, I do enjoy his over the top storytelling.
Speaker C:I've known since 300 that he's over the top.
Speaker C:If.
Speaker C:If there is any movie that could be defined as over the top, it is 300.
Speaker C:Like, it is the most over the top.
Speaker C:Crazy.
Speaker C:Down to, like the design of Xerxes, who is a historical figure.
Speaker C:Like, down to his design.
Speaker C:Everything he does is over the top.
Speaker C:And again, if you don't want to watch a movie with a lot of foot shots, don't watch Quentin Tarantino.
Speaker C:If you don't want to watch an over the top visual spectacle, don't watch anything.
Speaker B:Zack Snyder, I think where the debate comes in and people listening.
Speaker B:Feel free to drop your opinions on this.
Speaker A:I will very much.
Speaker B:I already know you will.
Speaker B:I feel like I have to on my podcast, I have to beg people for their opinions.
Speaker B:Not so much with the movie awards podcast.
Speaker A:We stir it up, baby.
Speaker B:No.
Speaker B:So the big debate, when you watch a Snyder film, though, is this over the top or is this just a bad story?
Speaker B:Like, that's really what it comes down to.
Speaker B:Because graphically I'm all.
Speaker B:I think his above and beyond is fantastic.
Speaker B:That Xerxes sing.
Speaker B:That was fantastic.
Speaker B:So much of the Justice League is so cool to watch.
Speaker B:But then when the slow pacing and the lack of story and character development.
Speaker B:When I watched this version of Justice League, I felt like I was asking an old relative how their day was.
Speaker C:And they were.
Speaker B:All they were saying was, I went to the grocery store and bought a thing of eggs, but they're telling it to me in four hours.
Speaker B:And before they get to the going and checking out with the eggs, they're saying, but before I get to that, let me tell you about the day that the produce manager had, which impacts why there wasn't as many eggs on the shelf.
Speaker B:Sure.
Speaker B:And I'm just like, I was crazy.
Speaker B:Grandpa was just asking, what were you doing for the.
Speaker B:Like, I don't like.
Speaker B:And.
Speaker B:And knowing what Jeff is doing behind the scenes does not help the story of the eggs at all.
Speaker A:So that, that begs the question I have for you.
Speaker A:That's.
Speaker A:I'm actually glad you said that.
Speaker A:So in the story, does Zach edit it together?
Speaker A:Who's editing the Snyder's cut together?
Speaker C:I mean, he has an editor, but he's every.
Speaker C:Every good director is insanely involved in the editing process.
Speaker A:I just was wondering because some of what you're saying, like, that's kind of.
Speaker A:You actually said kind of in a better way.
Speaker A:Actually what I said earlier, like, I just don't have the read on like, between.
Speaker A:Between man of Steel to hear in this journey.
Speaker A:I'm like, where does Zach actually live?
Speaker A:And I'M just thinking a lot of it is because of what you said to like, he hasn't gotten a fair shot.
Speaker A:And I was going to say before you all started talking, Zach needs to fire his agent.
Speaker B:Oh, yeah.
Speaker A:He keeps getting him jobs where people don't want him.
Speaker A:They keep hiring him to do things that they don't want done.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker A:It's like I hire a guy to paint my house red and when he paints it red, I'm like, I wanted green.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker A:You know, he literally.
Speaker A:And you saying Rebel Moon.
Speaker A:It's like, why does he keep.
Speaker A:Like his agent must suck.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:They don't want him, but they keep hiring him.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker A:But I, you know, it is hard.
Speaker A:And I'm not gonna say I fully dislike his directing style.
Speaker A:I'm gonna say I appreciate a lot about it.
Speaker A:There's a lot of moments that I like.
Speaker A:But I'm not going to say I love it either.
Speaker A:I'm somewhere.
Speaker A:What?
Speaker A:That's why I'm championing a new thing.
Speaker A:And I would love to see him not.
Speaker A:Not a superhero movie.
Speaker A:I want to see Zack Snyder go full Zack Snyder.
Speaker A:No interference.
Speaker A:And I want to.
Speaker A:I just need a good read because.
Speaker C:Right now watch some.
Speaker C:Watch the director's cuts of Rebel Moon.
Speaker C:Okay, you will.
Speaker C:And, and you said you.
Speaker C:Hold on.
Speaker C:You said you haven't seen.
Speaker A:I liked Watchmen.
Speaker C:You like.
Speaker A:I haven't seen Sucker Punch and I did not like 300 at all.
Speaker A:I watched it twice in a week and did not like it.
Speaker C:Watch the director's cuts of rebel moon.
Speaker C:I'm 100% going to say it is not for everyone.
Speaker C:But if you can get over the fact that it was originally written as a Star wars movie and just accept it's going to feel like a Star wars knockoff because it was made to be Star wars originally.
Speaker C:Ignore that.
Speaker C:Let it just be some long form sci fi and enjoy it for what it is.
Speaker C:Or try to at least I think those two movies, you will get the true understanding of what Zack Snyder likes to do.
Speaker C:Now, to your point, because I completely respect and agree with a lot of what you said, I do think it is kind of outlandish to say there's no character development in this movie because the entire first half is nothing but character development.
Speaker B:Oh, you could have stopped at the entire first half as nothing.
Speaker C:It's not though.
Speaker C:There is so much depth to.
Speaker C:To how he's building these characters and the criticism you just gave it of it being so long and nothing happening for the first half.
Speaker C:That was actually one of the biggest criticisms of Fellowship of the Ring when it first came out, because you look at Fellowship and you look at especially the source material that it's based on, that entire first half of the movie, up until they finish at the Council of Elrond, is nothing but setup for the second half of that movie and two more movies.
Speaker C:When you're looking at this as the everything cut, you're getting everything he was gonna think, even thinking about throwing in there.
Speaker C:That first half of the movie is the first 45 minutes to maybe even 30 minutes of a traditionally paced movie of like a two and a half hour long movie.
Speaker C:So yeah, it, it feels slower.
Speaker C:It feels like not as much is happening.
Speaker C:But again, it's because he's looking at this as Justice League Part one, Justice League Part two, Justice League Part three.
Speaker C:And in his mind, when he, when he sat down and wrote the story out, this is part of long form storytelling.
Speaker C:You're gonna expand the traditional beats because technically this entire four hour movie was act one of a three act storytelling piece.
Speaker C:So I get it.
Speaker C:If long form storytelling in movies is not your thing, that's fine.
Speaker C:But I, that's where I, I completely disagree with you that the entirety of that first two hours is just character development and getting to know the people that we're about to spend three movies with.
Speaker B:And to your point, in that case, it absolutely worked in that because by about hour two, I was really into the plot.
Speaker B:I really enjoyed watching it.
Speaker B:Whereas at first I would have no problem after the first sit down, like turning it off and going do something else.
Speaker B:Yeah, by my second or third when I had time to sit down, I was like, oh no, I actually really want to keep watching this.
Speaker C:Exactly.
Speaker B:Here's my beef, I guess.
Speaker B:Sure is.
Speaker B:I feel like it's the job of a director or a movie person, whoever's in charge of making the movie.
Speaker B:Yeah, you need to make a movie where if like you do, you don't want to make it.
Speaker B:Where you just assume everyone who watches it is just going to know that this is just setting up for the next couple movies.
Speaker B:And I feel like, well, I mean.
Speaker C:He was pretty clear about it.
Speaker B:I feel like especially.
Speaker B:Well, I mean, a good movie in a way could stand alone by itself.
Speaker B:I feel like, I feel like in.
Speaker C:My Ship of the Ring, as good of a movie as it is, it's not going to stand by itself because you're going to hit the end and be like, cool, there's more to come.
Speaker B:But you still enjoyed that movie when the Fellowship of the Ring came out.
Speaker B:That was a good one.
Speaker B:I mean, we saw that when in theater.
Speaker B:We saw the whole series in theaters.
Speaker B:It was wonderful.
Speaker B:We were excited for every single movie as it came.
Speaker B:We knew it was telling a greater story, but each movie could stand alone and you could see it.
Speaker B:I mean, always whenever.
Speaker B:When.
Speaker B:When Batman vs Superman came out, when the Justice League movies came out, whenever people were saying, these aren't good movies, the critique is always like, well, they're setting up for better movies.
Speaker B:And I feel like with his 10 movie plot, the biggest thing was, oh, it's setting up for a bigger picture.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:My critique is, do your job as a movie director and give me a good picture that sets up for a.
Speaker C:Better picture, which I again, can respect the opinion and feel like he started out from a bad place of Warner brothers, sat him down and said, no, no, no, you're not making a Superman movie.
Speaker C:You are making a Justice League universe.
Speaker B:Absolutely.
Speaker C:And so I agree with you if that.
Speaker C:But.
Speaker C:But again, that.
Speaker C:I don't think that comes down to.
Speaker C:He's not good at this.
Speaker C:I think he followed his directions to the letter.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker C:Setting up a massive.
Speaker B:Maybe my fault with this movie, then, is that kind of.
Speaker B:Maybe what you're.
Speaker B:Similar to what you were saying, Kyle, was that the assignment.
Speaker B:They picked the wrong person for the.
Speaker A:Assignment over and over again.
Speaker C:I think they picked the wrong assignment.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Yeah, they picked the wrong assignment.
Speaker B:And then, then.
Speaker B:So right away, when they're like, we want to try to keep up with the Avengers and Marvel.
Speaker B:Yeah, that was strike one.
Speaker B:And then they're like, okay, who's the best person to do this?
Speaker B:Zack Snyder.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:Strike two.
Speaker B:Strike three was.
Speaker B:He said, this is what I want to do.
Speaker B:And at first they were like, yes.
Speaker B:And then they were like, wait, we don't like it.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:And so that.
Speaker B:So from the start of this project, it's like when you get a new job at a crappy company and you're like, everything sucks.
Speaker B:It's like, well, it's because that was bound to happen.
Speaker A:Then they shat on him in the darkest moment of his life.
Speaker C:Literally, though.
Speaker B:Absolutely.
Speaker C:Here is what I will say.
Speaker C:We don't have a theatrical cut of his version of the movie.
Speaker C:We're just gonna say, fuck you, Justice League.
Speaker C:That is not the theatrical cut of his movie to compare.
Speaker C:We had a theatrical cut of Lord of the Rings for each movie, and then we had the extended version.
Speaker C:And I know plenty of people who think the extended versions are too long, the pacing is terrible, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
Speaker C:Every complaint.
Speaker C:I've heard about the Snyder cut.
Speaker C:I've heard about the extended editions of Lord of the Rings.
Speaker C:I think if we had had an actual theatrical cut of this movie from Zack Snyder, the opinions would have been different as far as the pacing and then adding all the extra lore and everything.
Speaker B:I think they might have been different.
Speaker B:And I hope.
Speaker B:I mean, I want to be optimistic, but.
Speaker B:Yeah, they probably would be.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:But we don't know.
Speaker C:Ultimately, we just don't know.
Speaker B:My opinion, based off what I saw with man of Steel and based off what I saw of Batman versus Superman, I'm not so sure.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:And that's a difference of opinion because again, I.
Speaker C:I think especially with man of Steel, he fucking nailed it.
Speaker A:Yeah, I agree.
Speaker C:And yeah, it's divisive with Batman versus Superman.
Speaker C:I enjoyed the story he told.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:I think some things could have been tightened up in places and even lengthen in other places.
Speaker C:But again, I still enjoy the story that he tells there.
Speaker C:And then you hit this one.
Speaker C:And yeah, it's long.
Speaker C:It is a dredge to get through at times.
Speaker C:And I'm.
Speaker C:I'll be the first one to admit it's.
Speaker C:Yeah, it drags at times, but.
Speaker C:But again, it's because I consider it to be the everything cut.
Speaker C:Just like the extended edition of Lord of the Rings is.
Speaker C:It's all the little nerdy shit that all the people who love these movies wanted is in there.
Speaker C:I wish we had a theatrical version to be able to compare it to, because ultimately we'll just never know.
Speaker B:We'll never know.
Speaker C:We'll never know.
Speaker B:And that's the frustrating part of these movies is it's like anytime you pick up a series on Netflix or whatever, and you know it ended too early, and if you like it, you're like, I know it's gonna end on a no resolution.
Speaker C:Exactly.
Speaker B:And that's what's the hardest part about watching this.
Speaker B:These movies is like we were saying with that last scene with the Joker, the post apocalyptic scene, you're like, well, I guess we'll never know where this leads to.
Speaker C:Exactly.
Speaker A:It's the biggest disappointment of all of it is not knowing.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:And.
Speaker B:And you know what?
Speaker B:So I think.
Speaker B:And I think this is how I'm going to end my rant, because I do try to end positively.
Speaker B:I do try.
Speaker A:You're good at that.
Speaker A:That's how when you live your life a quarter mile at a time.
Speaker B:Absolutely.
Speaker B:Absolutely.
Speaker B:In my.
Speaker B:In my podcast, we do the same thing where we will.
Speaker B:I will shit on something a lot.
Speaker B:And then I'll be like, but this is a good thing.
Speaker B:We can come from it.
Speaker B:And I think that's important because why live life negatively?
Speaker B:You know?
Speaker B:I.
Speaker B:I think, oh, my gosh.
Speaker B:I was like, I'm.
Speaker B:End pause.
Speaker B:Oh, okay.
Speaker B:I remember.
Speaker B:I remember.
Speaker B:I was like, what was I going to say?
Speaker B:That was nice?
Speaker B:I don't remember.
Speaker B:I remember it now, though.
Speaker B:This should just be known for everyone.
Speaker B:If anyone's listening to this and they're like, wow, Drew really doesn't like these movies.
Speaker B:That's not necessarily true.
Speaker B:I love superhero movies.
Speaker B:I love the superhero genre.
Speaker B:I watch everything that comes out that's about any superheroes, and I enjoy it.
Speaker B:I enjoyed watching these movies.
Speaker B:I enjoyed them when they were in theaters.
Speaker B:I've enjoyed watching them here.
Speaker C:I enjoy.
Speaker B:I will admit, if I never have to sit down for four hours.
Speaker B:And, I mean, I feel like I've gotten all the enjoyment I can out of the Snyder cut.
Speaker B:But I was so excited the first two times I watched it.
Speaker B:I think we're in a position right now where we're asking tough questions.
Speaker B:We're being a little bit more critical, but that's part of the fun of it.
Speaker B:These were still good, entertaining movies.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:I still was excited to see them in theaters.
Speaker B:And it was the best thing about doing the rewatch for the justice and Justice League was it kind of brought me back the nostalgia of, remember how hyped I was for these movies to come out, so.
Speaker B:And I think part of my frustration with Snyder's versions of these movies or these stories is I am so into the originals that I have a hard time looking at what I'm seeing and being like, yeah, that's good.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:And again, yeah, I think that at that point, it just all comes down to taste.
Speaker C:So I don't think you're wrong.
Speaker C:I just.
Speaker C:I look at things differently because it is something that I.
Speaker C:I just love.
Speaker C:I do love the way he tells his stories.
Speaker A:He's just less wrong than you are.
Speaker C:Yeah, I didn't say that.
Speaker C:I'm just.
Speaker A:I'm just fucking with you.
Speaker A:I didn't say that.
Speaker B:We are living in a world where two people with completely different opinions about a movie can sit down and talk about it.
Speaker C:Exactly.
Speaker B:And nobody has to fight or get murdered.
Speaker B:And imagine if we went, except for.
Speaker C:Entertainment, for Yalls Entertainment.
Speaker B:Imagine if.
Speaker B:If we did this with other serious life issues and more than movies.
Speaker B:What if two people of different opinions could sit down and have a conversation and just hear from each other?
Speaker C:That's impossible.
Speaker A:Speaking of massive disappointments, my penis.
Speaker A:Well, that's a given.
Speaker A:That's a given.
Speaker A:I'm not pushing.
Speaker A:I'm not pushing anything over here.
Speaker A:Speaking of disappointments, you probably have a friend that is an incredible disappointment.
Speaker A:Horrible at their job.
Speaker A:No friends, no prospects, no women, no men, whatever they are.
Speaker A:And they just wish that someone would release a director's cut of their life.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker A:So you could see the real footage, the good footage that got left out the first time they tried it.
Speaker A:Send that friend this podcast because they just need a second, maybe third, fourth chance, maybe four releases later.
Speaker A:This friend is acceptable.
Speaker A:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker B:Maybe, maybe.
Speaker B:Maybe if you knew them for another 20 years, you would like them.
Speaker B:Maybe, like, they're rough right now, but you just wait till the end of their life.
Speaker B:Every great.
Speaker A:Every time they get rejected on Tinder's.
Speaker A:Like, hold on, let me add this scene that I left on the cutting room floor and maybe you'll like this one better.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:They would love this podcast episode.
Speaker B:It's like we're talking about them as if they were a movie.
Speaker C:Kind of.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker A:I only have one question this time because I feel like.
Speaker C:Okay.
Speaker A:Because we have so much.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker A:You know, between.
Speaker A:Is it just me or does anyone hate women and horses more than Steppenwolf?
Speaker C:Holy Joss Whedon.
Speaker A:Yeah, that's true.
Speaker B:He was working on some issues over there with the Amazons.
Speaker C:Oh, my God.
Speaker A:I don't know.
Speaker A:It was hard.
Speaker A:Even though he's.
Speaker A:I say I don't like cgi, but it was some reason that did actually get to be like seeing a beat up these women.
Speaker A:And then the horses.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:He beats the.
Speaker A:Out of those horses.
Speaker A:He's slinging them around, throwing them around.
Speaker C:You compare that scene in Justice League versus this.
Speaker C:And here's.
Speaker C:Here is something I will say.
Speaker C:Zack Snyder gets right 100 of the time.
Speaker C:He knows how to be visceral with his bad guys.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker C:He knows how to make you absolutely hate for all the right reasons.
Speaker C:Hate his bad guys.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker C:Like, he.
Speaker C:He just.
Speaker C:He knows how to take that to not even the extreme, but just like the furthest point to get where it's not totally uncomfortable, but just uncomfortable enough that you dislike that person.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:And each of his battle scenes.
Speaker C:Oh, my God.
Speaker B:I mean, told a story.
Speaker B:I mean, in my other podcast, we talk about how car chase scenes, it actually would take so much work to make a good car.
Speaker B:Like a car chase scene.
Speaker C:Absolutely.
Speaker B:Each moment feels like it's telling a story, but just with engines in action, you know?
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:And you Know the, the scene where he's fighting those Amazons, like, that was a really well put together scene.
Speaker A:It was good.
Speaker B:I remember one point thinking, like, look, they have no chance of winning, but they are.
Speaker B:Yeah, they're doing their best.
Speaker B:Like, they're.
Speaker B:Like there was.
Speaker B:There was.
Speaker B:They were trying different things.
Speaker B:There was.
Speaker B:It wasn't just a monotonous course change scene.
Speaker B:And even, Even the ending scene, when they, when they do stop them, I mean, I do realize that Superman is doing most the heavy lifting.
Speaker C:He's not, though.
Speaker B:But really, not everyone, Everyone had a part to play in the scene saving the day.
Speaker C:Superman didn't even kill him.
Speaker C:It was Wonder Woman and.
Speaker C:And Aquaman who actually ended up killing him.
Speaker C:Yeah, like, that was.
Speaker B:Superman doesn't kill.
Speaker B:Except for Zod.
Speaker C:Yeah, that was my favorite part, honestly, comparing the two was that clearly in the Justice League version, Superman saves the day.
Speaker C:In this one, Superman just gives them an extra edge.
Speaker C:He's not the guy who comes in and fixes everything.
Speaker C:He comes in.
Speaker C:And they legitimately all work as a.
Speaker B:Team in that last moment, which is what it's about.
Speaker B:Like that, you know, multiple times they're saying it's the team where the team.
Speaker B:You know, like, so.
Speaker C:And the fact that it's Wonder Woman who cuts off his head and not Superman who punches him and that's what defeats him.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker C:That was something that I absolutely loved.
Speaker C:And to me, that's so much better storytelling than what Joss Whedon tried to do.
Speaker B:Absolutely.
Speaker A:That moment made me.
Speaker A:That's where I was like, I.
Speaker A:I just feel like there's somewhere in there, Zack Snyder, like, could be a great director.
Speaker A:That last three quarter, that last quarter of the movie, I was like, that's what I want.
Speaker B:Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:I just.
Speaker B:I just.
Speaker B:Part of me is like, why can't we get more of this sooner?
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker A:Fair.
Speaker A:So, yeah, I feel the same way.
Speaker B:Yeah, I do.
Speaker B:It's interesting.
Speaker B:I do feel like if.
Speaker B:And this isn't a critique, it's just a statement.
Speaker B:Batman does seem to be like the central protagonist of it all.
Speaker B:Like, I felt like bat.
Speaker B:I mean, I felt like.
Speaker B:Whereas Josh was definitely trying refocus us on Superman.
Speaker B:To me, when you put more.
Speaker B:So Donna, Superman, or, excuse me, dawn of Justice, Batman versus Superman.
Speaker B:And then with this.
Speaker B:I mean, I do feel like Batman's the.
Speaker B:Where the most the focus on.
Speaker B:It's not a problem.
Speaker C:But it's just.
Speaker B:But it's like.
Speaker C:Well, I mean, Batman is considered to be the leader of the Justice League just because Even in the Animated Series, not every character is in every episode.
Speaker C:Some episodes will focus on specific characters.
Speaker C:But it's like ultimately Batman's the.
Speaker C:The one who brought everyone together to make the team.
Speaker B:He brought them together.
Speaker B:But then Superman was the leader.
Speaker B:And Batman's biggest thing was he eventually left the Justice League because he wanted to.
Speaker B:He didn't like.
Speaker B:He.
Speaker B:He saw the alternate universe with the Justice Lords, which was the injustice storyline, and he saw how bad they were, and he's like, I don't want to be an all powerful over the world thing.
Speaker B:So he left it.
Speaker B:And then one of the best lines of dialogue in that series is when someone says, well, what.
Speaker B:What happens if Superman gets out of line and if we have to put him down?
Speaker B:And then Superman is like, that's when you call Batman.
Speaker C:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker C:And I don't know, I feel like that vibe definitely comes through in this version of the story.
Speaker B:Yeah, it was.
Speaker B:It was cool to see, but.
Speaker B:And I.
Speaker B:But if.
Speaker B:If we're.
Speaker B:It was.
Speaker B:I loved what they did with Super Batman.
Speaker B:I loved what they did with Batman.
Speaker B:I hated what they did with the Flash.
Speaker A:Yeah, I mean, that.
Speaker C:That's fair.
Speaker C:I.
Speaker C:I didn't hate it.
Speaker C:It's.
Speaker C:It's definitely not the best version of the Flash out there.
Speaker C:I significantly like him better in this version than Justice League.
Speaker B:We get more character development of him and all the other characters.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:We get more stuff that makes him a little bit more redeemable.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:But I can totally understand why it wouldn't hit with you the way it.
Speaker B:Went with other people in his actual movie.
Speaker B:I ended up liking him better and I realized the reason why is because it's a time travel movie.
Speaker B:So he goes back and interacts with his past self, and half of his good dialogue is him commenting on how annoying his past self is.
Speaker B:And I'm like, oh, so he gets it.
Speaker B:He gets it.
Speaker B:And that makes me like him better.
Speaker C:You know, which I would have been interested to see what his eventual development would have been through Justice League 2 and 3, because in the nightmare sequence at the very end or the premonition, you really do see him start to get more serious.
Speaker C:Like, all the characters in that little five minute moment are so different than they were in the rest.
Speaker B:They've seen.
Speaker B:They've lived through some stuff.
Speaker B:Man, that's.
Speaker B:That's.
Speaker B:And it's like I was saying, like that that would.
Speaker B:I want to see that movie, but we never will.
Speaker C:Exactly.
Speaker A:Rando.
Speaker C:Rando, which.
Speaker C:I have two quick ones to pop in the Middle.
Speaker A:So, yeah, cool.
Speaker A:This is.
Speaker A:I tried to find more recent research on this, but according to the most recent articles I can find, Zack Snyder has never seen the theatrical release Justice League.
Speaker A:I.
Speaker A:I'm the kind of person that's so petty.
Speaker A:Like, I would have to go see it so I can.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker C:I mean, when Christopher Nolan tells you to not go see something, you kind of just listen to the King.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:I mean, if Stanley Kubrick can call Stephen King at 3:00am to on him, I can go see the bad version of my movie and then call Joss Whedon at 3am like, do you believe in God?
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:Maybe he's just.
Speaker C:Do you bleed?
Speaker B:Maybe he's more healthy than us.
Speaker B:And then that, like, he's like, I know I wouldn't like it.
Speaker B:I know I would be bothered by it.
Speaker B:And also like it probably.
Speaker B:Also, you know, that movie and that timing of it all was pretty traumatic with what he was dealing with his daughter.
Speaker B:So it's like, good for him for not well, I imagine.
Speaker B:I imagine one day when he's old and bored and looking back at life, he's going to find like an old blockbuster dvd, put it in, and he's going to watch it and be like, yeah.
Speaker B:Wow, that is total crap.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker C:Yeah, I wouldn't either.
Speaker C:I get it.
Speaker A:Visually, effects wise, they.
Speaker A:Snyder said the most difficult thing about making this movie was Steppenwolf.
Speaker A:He said it was insanely difficult because compared to what was happening at the time, this CGI character had to interact.
Speaker A:He said specifically his words.
Speaker A:He had to feel stuff and have a backstory.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker A:And he said it was really complex.
Speaker A:Although he does give credit to Kieran Hines, who does the voice work.
Speaker A:I don't know how much different it was in the.
Speaker A:The first one.
Speaker A:I made fun of her feeling old.
Speaker A:I feel like an old guy talking into a microphone.
Speaker A:I didn't feel that as much here.
Speaker B:I said this last week.
Speaker B:I liked the more character development we had of Steppenwolf in this version.
Speaker B:We actually knew his story.
Speaker B:We knew why he was doing what he was doing.
Speaker B:Wonder Woman told us a little bit about it in the Justice League one, but you really got to kind of see it.
Speaker C:Well, they changed his character completely.
Speaker C:In the other one, he's a baby dark side.
Speaker C:And this one, he's who he is in the comics and the animated.
Speaker B:Well, I mean, he is a former glorious warrior that messed up and is trying to get his, you know, get.
Speaker A:His space daddy back on board.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:But I did not.
Speaker B:I did not like his Voice change in this one, I felt like it was more like.
Speaker B:It was like an electric guitar with like a.
Speaker B:Like, I felt like they were giving him a techno beat to like a.
Speaker C:Oh, I don't know.
Speaker C:I hated it.
Speaker A:I almost spit my copy out.
Speaker B:When you like electric, it sounds like we were going when Pop Goes Punk sound like a cover song.
Speaker B:And like, he did look more menacing and badass in this one with all the spikes.
Speaker B:And it was cool how like we.
Speaker B:We were talking about this before the podcast went in the last fight.
Speaker B:The more he got beat up, the as harder was for him to regain his armor.
Speaker B:So like.
Speaker B:But I felt like his.
Speaker B:For lack of better words, sorry, Stefan Wolf, if you're listening to this, his patheticness in the Josh version of it added to his character to me.
Speaker B:Like he.
Speaker B:He was a washed up villain of Apocalypse.
Speaker B:Like he.
Speaker B:He was a dude trying to get back in good graces with his people.
Speaker B:The old ball sack guy.
Speaker B:Look.
Speaker C:But that wasn't.
Speaker C:That wasn't the story in Justice League.
Speaker C:He's not trying to get anything back other than just get back at her.
Speaker B:Yeah, well, he lost in order.
Speaker B:That was his first and maybe only big loss.
Speaker B:Was that the war on Earth.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:So all this was trying to get retribution so that he.
Speaker B:I mean, maybe.
Speaker B:And maybe I'm reading it, maybe they never actually said so that he could get back with.
Speaker C:Oh, no, that's the thing.
Speaker C:But Darkseid didn't exist in Justice League.
Speaker B:In both movies, he was a washed up failure of a bad guy.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:And he.
Speaker B:He was.
Speaker B:So he's trying to either get back to Earth, maybe in Justice League, or in addition to that, in the Snyder cut.
Speaker B:He's trying to get back in Darkseid's good graces.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:So to me, I mean, if Snyder didn't call me and ask my opinions on this.
Speaker B:So it's okay that he didn't do this?
Speaker C:How dare he?
Speaker B:But I would have kept the old ball sack man look and voice.
Speaker B:But all the character development of the Snyder cut.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:To each their own.
Speaker C:I don't know.
Speaker C:I absolutely despise what Joss Whedon did to him.
Speaker C:He looked like shit.
Speaker C:He didn't look like anything.
Speaker C:He looked like Ant Man.
Speaker C:Should have beat him in the first Ant Man.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker C:Like, I don't know.
Speaker C:There was nothing unique about him whatsoever.
Speaker B:It would have been interesting if they combined it like.
Speaker B:So at the beginning, he was the old ball sack.
Speaker B:But then once he got power of the three mother boxes is that's when he became Badass.
Speaker C:That could have been something cool.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker C:I don't know.
Speaker C:I, I, I, I just think the way that he was handled in this one was so much better.
Speaker C:Like, like there's no reason for him to be a, like he was in the original one.
Speaker C:This one, it's like you can very much feel the weight of everything he's doing is like there's purpose behind it.
Speaker C:Finally.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker A:My last rando before your Seth.
Speaker A:Yeah, that last scene, the premonition scene, because they didn't want him to film anything.
Speaker A:They just wanted him to use what he had.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker A:For this cut.
Speaker A:He said he was going to film it in his own backyard.
Speaker A:So I guess he was going to get a studio set up back there.
Speaker A:He was going to get.
Speaker A:And he was going to do it in his own backyard.
Speaker A:And Ben Affleck and Jared Leto were game.
Speaker C:Okay.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker A:They wanted to do it.
Speaker C:Yep.
Speaker A:And once they were on board and he, he actually talked.
Speaker A:Because HBO Max is just as big a part of the story too.
Speaker C:Yes.
Speaker A:One part of that story is that they were, they were, they still are, but they were kind of the fledgling service.
Speaker A:They have like 20.
Speaker A:They have like 40 of the market share compared to like Netflix and streamers.
Speaker A:Even though it's my favorite, it's the one I will never delete.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker A:So they, they, once Jared and Ben got on board, they're like, okay, fine.
Speaker A:And they set up a sound stage and let him film the only thing he filmed extra for this guy.
Speaker C:So my first rando is going to add on to that.
Speaker C:Ben Affleck and Jared Leto were never in the studio together at the same time.
Speaker A:Really.
Speaker C:They were filmed completely isolated and separate.
Speaker C:That whole sequence where they're talking to each other, they were not in the same room ever.
Speaker A:Wow.
Speaker C:They were completely separated, doing their thing just with basically them and Zach.
Speaker B:I guess it kind of makes sense when you think about the cinema.
Speaker B:You never see them.
Speaker A:Like, it turned out really well.
Speaker C:There, There are shots where like, like you'll see a dirty shot and it's called a dirty shot when, when someone is in the foreground, but they're not the focus.
Speaker C:So the dirty shots where you're looking over Ben Affleck shoulder, it's just him standing in front of green.
Speaker C:Of a green screen and then they flip it and he shoots with, with Jared Leto there.
Speaker C:So that's, yeah, that's my first rando is, is.
Speaker C:I just love the fact that he made that happen.
Speaker A:It's hilarious to me because that's my favorite scene.
Speaker A:Of this entire franchise.
Speaker C:And they were never in the same room.
Speaker A:That's insane.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:The other rando I have, which, again, this just speaks to the petty bullshit of Warner Brothers, because HBO Max, or.
Speaker C:Yeah, it was HBO Max at the time Max now.
Speaker C:They were kind of fully on board with whatever he wanted to do.
Speaker C:Warner Brothers very specifically came to him because that very last scene, Martian Manhunter, was not originally in the movie.
Speaker C:It was originally supposed to be Green Lantern.
Speaker C:And literally, Warner Brothers said, if you try to use Green Lantern, we will not release this movie.
Speaker B:Oh, wow.
Speaker C:We will not let you do anything if you put Green Lantern.
Speaker B:They are very particular about when you can use certain super.
Speaker B:Or at least DC is.
Speaker B:I don't know if Warner bro.
Speaker B:Where the line is there.
Speaker B:But like, that frequently has been an issue with the television shows.
Speaker B:They've wanted to incorporate one superhero, but if the movies are doing it, then they can't.
Speaker B:In one of the seasons of Arrow was when Suicide Squad came out.
Speaker B:And in Arrow, they had a very compelling and main storyline involving the Suicide Squad.
Speaker B:And.
Speaker B:And Deadshot was part of it.
Speaker B:And because the Will Smith Dead Suicide Squad movie came out, they had.
Speaker B:They ended up killing him off in.
Speaker C:Oh, wow.
Speaker B:In Arrow because he was being used in the movie.
Speaker B:And then also back when Smallville was a thing, that was when the Nolan movies were coming out with Batman and they had a Superman story or a Batman storyline coming involved into that in season six.
Speaker B:But instead they used Green Arrow because Dark Knight, Dark Knight Rise.
Speaker B:Like, they were coming out.
Speaker B:That's always been the way where, like, if there's movies come first.
Speaker B:Like, if.
Speaker C:But the thing was, there was nothing using Green Air or Green Lantern.
Speaker C:Like, they literally were just like, no, fuck you.
Speaker C:You cannot put Green Lantern in this movie.
Speaker B:Speaking of Marshall and Martian Manhunter, this was the weirdest scene to me when.
Speaker B:Well, first.
Speaker B:It's hard.
Speaker B:Has a really nice scene when it was like Lois and Martha talking.
Speaker A:Oh, Martha.
Speaker B:And they were.
Speaker B:What a beautiful moment.
Speaker C:Hold on.
Speaker C:Sorry.
Speaker C:When I was watching that part and.
Speaker C:And she knocks the door and Lois is like, who is it?
Speaker C:And she goes, martha.
Speaker C:I literally just in the back of my head.
Speaker C:Why did you say that?
Speaker A:Oh, gosh, that was such a big part of our first podcast.
Speaker B:Such a.
Speaker B:Like, such a tender.
Speaker B:I almost said Tinder moment.
Speaker B:Like, yeah, they matched up swiped right.
Speaker B:And like, well, you've lost a man, I've lost a son.
Speaker B:Let's just, you know.
Speaker B:No.
Speaker B:So it's such a beautiful moment of her.
Speaker B:Them helping each other cope.
Speaker C:Yep.
Speaker B:And Then she walks out and turns out it was Martian Manhunter.
Speaker C:Yeah, that.
Speaker C:That was weird for me.
Speaker C:I still don't fully understand it other than I guess he was like, well, I have to have a reason that he's in the very end.
Speaker C:So.
Speaker B:How long has he been impersonating Martha?
Speaker C:That.
Speaker C:Well, okay, I think.
Speaker B:Why did he feel the need to get that in detail with Lois?
Speaker A:And I had no idea who the fuck that was.
Speaker C:So here is.
Speaker C:Is my theory.
Speaker C:But I have nothing to base this on other than just.
Speaker C:Just man of steel, BVs and this.
Speaker C:My assumption is he has always been living as the General.
Speaker B:Oh yeah, because that's right.
Speaker B:He turned into the General afterwards.
Speaker B:He was a General in man of Steel.
Speaker C:That is my assumption is in man of Steel and BvS, whenever that character shows up.
Speaker C:That is actually Martian Manhunter just trying to live on Earth but have a little bit of influence.
Speaker B:He was kind of addicted to Superman about being an alien.
Speaker B:I feel like a little.
Speaker C:He was so.
Speaker C:And again, that's just my head cannon.
Speaker C:That's my theory.
Speaker C:I have no justification for that.
Speaker C:What, other than he turns into the General?
Speaker B:Yeah, that works for me.
Speaker C:But I am not even going to begin to try to justify why he turned into Martha.
Speaker C:Maybe he just needed information.
Speaker C:I don't.
Speaker B:I mean, I get.
Speaker B:I mean, I get how he could do it.
Speaker B:He can read mine, so you can understand how.
Speaker B:But like, that's going to make a really awkward next interaction with Lois and Martha when she comes over and hugs her like, thanks again for that great talk.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:And she's like, what great talk?
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:That was something I absolutely didn't understand.
Speaker C:And I'm not even going to try to defend because I just don't know.
Speaker C:I have no clue.
Speaker B:We need a part 11 of the same.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker A:As a.
Speaker A:As the non comic canon guy, that scene made no sense to me.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker A:I had no idea who Martian Manhunter was.
Speaker A:I've at least heard of a lot of these characters, even though I haven't read them.
Speaker A:I've at least heard.
Speaker A:Yeah, I had no idea who I.
Speaker C:Was looking at, honestly.
Speaker C:Martian Manhunter is actually one of the, like, bigger members of the Justice League.
Speaker C:He's introduced in the very first episode of the Animated Series, so I didn't realize that either.
Speaker B:And he's got some.
Speaker B:He would have been a good person to have in the.
Speaker B:For this because, like, he's got some pretty awesome powers.
Speaker C:He does.
Speaker B:He's pretty.
Speaker B:He's pretty bad.
Speaker C:He would have been really cool in two and three, except he's afraid of.
Speaker B:Fire, so that's kind of a problem.
Speaker C:But also knowing that he was originally supposed to be Green Lantern, that makes even less sense to me.
Speaker C:Yeah, like I have.
Speaker C:No, again, that's not even something I'm gonna try to justify.
Speaker A:They put a red light on the Green Lantern.
Speaker C:Yeah, there we go.
Speaker A:Shall we?
Speaker A:Snyder, cut this war card up.
Speaker C:Let's do it.
Speaker B:Let's do it.
Speaker A:Shall we?
Speaker A:Go 20, 000 Justin Justice.
Speaker A:Leagues under the Sea.
Speaker C:Oh, God.
Speaker B:I'm done.
Speaker B:Come on.
Speaker B:That was good.
Speaker B:That was good.
Speaker A:You know why you didn't like it?
Speaker A:Because I'm in a league of my own.
Speaker B:Okay.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker C:You are not an extraordinary gentleman, though.
Speaker A:That is true.
Speaker A:Especially after two cups of coffee.
Speaker C:There we go.
Speaker A:Gonna.
Speaker A:Yeah, let's war.
Speaker C:Let's do it.
Speaker A:As a reminder.
Speaker A:Positive.
Speaker A:Affirmative.
Speaker A:And you're gonna be so glad it's finally over.
Speaker C:The last one, Snyder.
Speaker A:Barely knower.
Speaker B:Yeah, we didn't give a lot of those last time.
Speaker A:Yeah, we.
Speaker A:Exactly.
Speaker C:The only one who gave one.
Speaker B:I did.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:I almost wonder if I should change anyway.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:If you went by the final score of the last one, you would have thought it was the most negative Movie wars of all time.
Speaker A:We try to keep it positive here at Movie Wars.
Speaker A:Unless you're Joss Whedon, you racist bastard, you.
Speaker A:Yeah, go to hell.
Speaker A:Sorry, Joss.
Speaker A:And speaking of, is he related to Joss Stone?
Speaker A:I'm just kidding.
Speaker A:We don't.
Speaker A:Shall we war.
Speaker B:Let's war it out.
Speaker C:To remind you.
Speaker C:The negative is super bad.
Speaker A:Super bad.
Speaker A:Top Bill cast.
Speaker A:And that would be.
Speaker A:Oh, kind of crazy on this one.
Speaker A:Henry Cavill, Ben Affleck, Gal Gadot are actually the.
Speaker C:Yeah, that makes sense to me.
Speaker A:Crazy.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:No, they're.
Speaker C:I mean, Gal Gadot and Ben Affleck are definitely in it the most.
Speaker B:Gal Gadot's top of my guest.
Speaker B:Any movie she's in.
Speaker C:Here's.
Speaker C:Here's the thing, especially comparing it to the last one.
Speaker C:This is where you really see all of them actually act like.
Speaker C:No one seems tired.
Speaker C:No one seems pissed off to be there.
Speaker C:Everyone is.
Speaker C:Is going balls to the wall.
Speaker C:And I think it speaks to how much they respected Zack Snyder.
Speaker C:Yeah, they.
Speaker C:They were all in on his vision.
Speaker C:Whether you as a viewer like it or not.
Speaker C:They were 100 in.
Speaker C:They loved the story he was telling and they wanted to tell it as best as they could with him.
Speaker B:That must have really sucked for them, that all that with this stuff with the Josh Wheaton, like.
Speaker C:Well, that's the thing is they came back and he's rewritten the same scene, but a quarter of the length and with worse dialogue.
Speaker C:And it's like all of them are just standing around like, what are we doing?
Speaker C:Yeah, why are we saying these words?
Speaker A:I thought you were just going to do some script polishing.
Speaker A:Who are you?
Speaker C:Like, seriously?
Speaker C:So Snyder.
Speaker C:Barely know her 100%.
Speaker C:They, they all delivered.
Speaker C:My favorite comparison is when Superman finally shows up at the very end.
Speaker C:And in the Joss Whedon version, he goes, I have a thing about truth and justice too.
Speaker C:But in this one, he stops Cyborg from getting hit with the axe and just goes, not impressed.
Speaker A:Yep.
Speaker C:So fucking good.
Speaker A:That was emotional for me, actually.
Speaker C:Also, the scene with him and Lois Lane in the actual cornfield, not the shitty green screen cornfield that fucking Joss Whedon tried to put together.
Speaker C:That moment of the two of him finally gaining all of his memory back.
Speaker C:And re.
Speaker C:And another one of my favorite lines that he had was he looks at Lois and his mom and just goes, they called me back for a reason.
Speaker C:Then I have to go find out.
Speaker A:Corn rash.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Love it.
Speaker C:But yeah, Snyder valley.
Speaker C:Now we're 100%.
Speaker C:They love it.
Speaker B:Snyder barely knew her.
Speaker B:But, but no, I, I agree.
Speaker B:I think all three of them did great.
Speaker B:I, I, I very much enjoyed seeing Superman in this more so than.
Speaker B:I mean, I had my beef with him and Batman versus Superman, but, like, not this time.
Speaker C:Can we talk about the black suit for a second?
Speaker A:So sexy that.
Speaker C:So that was a big thing when Justice League came out, was Snyder had kind of hinted that the black suit was going to come into play.
Speaker C:And then Joss Whedon just said, fuck it and took it out.
Speaker A:And it's so sexy.
Speaker B:Did they ever go into why he had a black suit?
Speaker B:Because there could have.
Speaker B:There is a comic relevant reason if they wanted to use it, but I don't know if.
Speaker B:Did they cover it in the movie?
Speaker C:They didn't, but I guarantee you it's the same thing that the comic reason the resurrection suit.
Speaker B:Well, so it's assuming that he's trying to get stronger and like, so apparently he has a black suit that, like, absorbs sunlight.
Speaker C:Yeah, it absorbs yellow sun better.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker C:Again, this is the everything cut.
Speaker C:They put it in for all the nerdy shit, but there is that moment that wasn't in Justice League where he does fly back up into the stratosphere and absorbs the sunlight, and then that's when he goes and finds Alfred.
Speaker B:I kind of, I was assuming that was why he had the black suit, but he might have just been in his emo phase.
Speaker B:I mean, you just literally died.
Speaker C:I think it's a little bit of both.
Speaker C:But if I remember correctly, it is because.
Speaker C:Yeah, it's.
Speaker C:It's easier for him to absorb the sunlight when he's wearing the black suit.
Speaker C:I do like that.
Speaker C:That armor scene where he's going through the Fortress of Solitude and all the different armors come out, and then that's the one that he picks.
Speaker C:Like, it was just such a cool moment armor.
Speaker A:I.
Speaker A:My only disappointment here.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker A:And I don't have a lot with the top bill cast.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker A:What's funny is I didn't like Batman vs Superman, but I loved Batman in it, if that makes sense.
Speaker A:I know it's weird.
Speaker A:I feel that between watching the Justice League and this, I don't ever feel like they let Batman get back to the heights that he was.
Speaker A:I just feel like the.
Speaker A:Some of the stuff he did in that one and his place in it.
Speaker A:Not that I needed him to take over because it was at the.
Speaker A:At the end of the day.
Speaker A:I love that.
Speaker A:It was cyborg story.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker A:The heart of it.
Speaker A:I did love that.
Speaker A:I just wanted kind of some of that aggressive, like, some of the stuff Batman did.
Speaker A:And Batman versus Superman is what kept me in that movie.
Speaker A:Like that fight scene when he broke that guy's arm.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker A:Well, that was so badass.
Speaker A:I just kind of wanted a moment with Batman to go back to that because that was like.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:The saving grace for that movie.
Speaker C:I mean, I kind of felt it when he was fighting the gunners.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:He did.
Speaker C:Personally, for me.
Speaker C:But I do get it.
Speaker C:But also, at the same time, remember, everyone's expectation was he was going to go straight into the Batman after that.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker C:So it's like you're introducing the whole team.
Speaker C:Everyone has to have their moment.
Speaker C:Batman really had his moment in the last movie.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker C:So it's like.
Speaker C:And he's about to have an entire movie that is nothing but him.
Speaker C:So I could.
Speaker C:I could see why.
Speaker C:But I do agree with you.
Speaker C:It would have been nice to have a little.
Speaker B:Just a little bit more aggressive in the Batmobile taking out.
Speaker B:All the.
Speaker B:Taking out the guy.
Speaker B:I mean, he was doing his best against aliens.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:Because that is another complaint people have about Batman in the Justice League is he's just a guy.
Speaker B:But also he was the.
Speaker B:I mean, he was the brains behind everything.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:And I feel like.
Speaker B:I feel like his most.
Speaker B:The most interesting thing about him in the movie was the ethical dilemma between him and Wonder Woman about bringing about Superman.
Speaker B:It was such a Batman move to be like, no, we should do it.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker A:And maybe part of it, too, is against human enemies.
Speaker A:He's so menacing.
Speaker A:But he's.
Speaker A:It doesn't really.
Speaker A:It's not to scale against parody.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:Because.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:When you have two literal gods and a guy who's entirely motherbot machine, and then a dude who could go speed a lighter faster.
Speaker B:But can I just say, there is a scene in one of the Justice League animated series where they're.
Speaker B:They're fighting Darkseid.
Speaker B:They're fighting.
Speaker B:Oh, no, it was in.
Speaker B:It was in a movie.
Speaker B:That animated movie.
Speaker C:Oh, yeah, yeah.
Speaker B:And he's.
Speaker B:He's, you know, Superman's fighting Darkseid and getting beat up, or they're even.
Speaker B:And Batman's out there doing something.
Speaker B:But then he figures out a way to, like, he hacks Darkseid technology to where he could blow up the entire planet.
Speaker B:And he tells, and he goes back to Darkseid and dark side is like, slam.
Speaker B:He's like, I could kill you in a second.
Speaker B:He's like, yeah, but you won't, because then I'll blow up your entire planet.
Speaker B:And he's like, you couldn't hack into it.
Speaker B:And then he tells him his password.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:And Darkseid has to let him and the entire rest of the Justice League go because Batman outsmarted, like, the God.
Speaker C:I love that planet.
Speaker A:I love the detective aspects of Batman.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker A:So that was my only thing.
Speaker A:I think Gal Gadot deserves, like, all the flowers.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker A:Even in the shittiest Joss, you know, moments where he watered down everyone, she still stuck out.
Speaker A:I think she's.
Speaker A:You know, it's funny that her background is as a model because she's a very physical actress.
Speaker C:Well, she was in the Israeli army for three.
Speaker B:Yes, absolutely.
Speaker A:Yes.
Speaker A:And I'm in the cyber security industry, and I most like.
Speaker A:There's a ton of ex Israeli women in that industry that I've met over the years.
Speaker A:And I'm like, all of them could have been Gal Gadot.
Speaker A:Like, they are some tough, tough people.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:And part of me.
Speaker B:Things like she has experience working in Fascinating and Furious.
Speaker B:She doesn't mind it when there's not much of a good plotter.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:She knows how to work around those things.
Speaker A:You know, one of.
Speaker A:One of my favorite scenes in.
Speaker A:In this movie compared to the justice cup, was the.
Speaker A:The terrorists that.
Speaker A:That take over.
Speaker A:I love that.
Speaker A:And for a moment I was like, well, maybe you don't need Superman, she can do a lot of what he does.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:I actually looked at.
Speaker B:Because I had.
Speaker B:At first I had a problem.
Speaker B:I was like, she's moving as, like she has super speed.
Speaker B:What?
Speaker B:And then I googled and turns out she has like, she is much faster than the normal human.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:So like even, even some people might have pointed to that and be like, well, he clearly doesn't know Wonder Woman actually.
Speaker B:She's.
Speaker B:She's got that kind of speed and flying and stuff like that.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:I liked that scene.
Speaker B:But if I had to cut part of the movie off, I mean, that scene to me, aside from introducing us to Wonder Woman and a pretty cool just in general scene that might have been one of the ones.
Speaker B:Like, if we were going to cut the four hours down would have.
Speaker C:Sure.
Speaker C:And I'm sure it would have been trimmed down in his.
Speaker C:His theatrical release.
Speaker C:But it was really cool comparing it to Justice League.
Speaker C:I loved how big the stakes were.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker C:Because in the, in that video that I was telling you about that I watched comparing, he was comparing those two scenes specifically.
Speaker C:And he was literally just like, when you're watching the, the Snyder cut version, you're scared for all those kids because of this crazy ass guy who literally isn't trying to take hostages.
Speaker C:He's trying.
Speaker C:He's gonna kill everybody.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker C:And it's so much.
Speaker C:Again, the one thing Zack Snyder will always get right is how to make his villains menacing and visceral.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker C:And that was such a gut punch, visceral moment for me.
Speaker B:I love, I loved how he made Wonder Woman like, as strong as she should be.
Speaker B:And that like, I mean, she held her own against Stefan with.
Speaker B:I mean, she eventually was the one who.
Speaker B:I mean, but even the one on one fighting, like, she did pretty good.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:Awesome.
Speaker B:And I just feel like anytime there's female heroes, especially in like a Superman storyline, they're always going to end up being a stronger damsel in distress.
Speaker B:Like Superman's.
Speaker B:Again, the man's.
Speaker B:And.
Speaker B:And like, I mean, her big story is like you were saying in the last episode, like we didn't need.
Speaker B:Or maybe it was one of you was saying about like, we didn't need that scene with the lasso or like we didn't need.
Speaker B:Like we didn't need the.
Speaker B:The random lines that kind of made her less than for like, yeah.
Speaker C:You know, bullshit sexist remarks.
Speaker C:Just Whedon.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker B:Because like, she is like, that's the kind of stuff that is like out of her character.
Speaker B:So she's gonna write us.
Speaker B:So Much hate mail.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:She's a badass.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:And I did want to give one more thing.
Speaker A:I.
Speaker A:You know, I feel like caval.
Speaker A:Also, one thing I've learned on our social media is that a lot of people don't like this interpretation Superman.
Speaker A:I know you don't.
Speaker A:But I will say I don't know why sometimes this happens in movies.
Speaker A:The most emotional moment of this entire episode of all the episodes we've done, was when he takes the sword, the ax, on behalf of Cyborg and says, not impressed.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker A:I don't know why, but that was emotional for me.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker A:It was like this.
Speaker C:The smile, the grin on his face.
Speaker A:And it was a Superman moment.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker A:Because Superman, at the end of the day, when you look at Reeves, the thing that about Reeves was those types of moments.
Speaker A:That's what people loved about the Reeves version.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker A:And to me, that was a callback.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:To that.
Speaker A:And for some reason, I was like, I don't even love this character.
Speaker A:I'm not really into Superman.
Speaker A:But that.
Speaker B:That was a cool moment.
Speaker A:That was very emotional for me, and I loved it.
Speaker A:So huge.
Speaker A:Shout out Snyder.
Speaker A:Barely know her.
Speaker B:I feel like Superman in both these versions of J.
Speaker B:Justice League grew on me.
Speaker B:I.
Speaker B:I was like, I could take him or leave him in man of Steel.
Speaker B:More so leave him than take him.
Speaker B:I hated him in Batman vs Superman.
Speaker B:But then, like, when he showed back up again, death.
Speaker B:Death did him some justice.
Speaker C:I mean, I think it's because those first two movies are about his struggle to understand his place in the world.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker C:And then by this one, after he has fully sacrificed himself for the.
Speaker C:The good of humanity.
Speaker C:Now that he's back, he knows who he is.
Speaker A:Yep.
Speaker C:And.
Speaker C:And I have a.
Speaker C:Again, nothing other than these to base it off of, but I have a very strong feeling that when we would have gotten man of steel 2, he would have had more of that utter confidence vibe that people were looking for.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:Supporting cast, it's 1 to 0.
Speaker A:Amy Adams, Lois Lane, Gal Gadot.
Speaker A:Wait, did she.
Speaker A:Did I?
Speaker A:Yeah, sorry.
Speaker A:Scratch that.
Speaker A:Ray Fisher.
Speaker A:Oh, Ray Fisher.
Speaker A:Jason Momoa, Ezra Miller.
Speaker A:And this is the funniest one to me.
Speaker A:Willem Dafoe.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker A:Who was in the justice or was supposed to be in the Justice League.
Speaker A:But how do you get.
Speaker A:How do you have Willem Dafoe on set and not use his footage?
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker A:That's malpractice, dude.
Speaker C:Joss Whedon's piece of.
Speaker A:Oh, Jesse Eisenberg, Jeremy Irons, Diane Lane.
Speaker A:Skipping down the list, we got J.K.
Speaker A:simmons.
Speaker A:And Kieran Hands is the voice of Steppenwolf and Joe Morton, the breeder of cyborgs.
Speaker C:And don't forget Joe Manganiello in his brief cameo as, as a deathstroke.
Speaker A:True.
Speaker C:Here is something I will say about Jesse Eisenberg in this.
Speaker C:So this is something that kind of came in, into my understanding this time around.
Speaker C:I think in BVS he was supposed to be actually crazy.
Speaker C:Like, I realized that because his tone at the end of this is vastly different than it was in BVS and I.
Speaker C:He literally says that like, you know, because of whatever treatments he went through.
Speaker B:He got the help he needed, he's.
Speaker C:Got, he's finally a little more and he, he's slowly turning into that sinister asshole that I think everyone kind of wanted from his character.
Speaker C:So I, I, I, I think the course correction that Zack Snyder made with that character in this moment was probably going to keep carrying through and I think he would have turned into a very menacing character as opposed to just the crazy off the wall guy that he was in.
Speaker B:The first suit was weird.
Speaker B:I don't know that.
Speaker B:Yeah, it was, I was like, yeah, but I mean, he just got out of prison.
Speaker B:He probably didn't have a lot of.
Speaker C:It was one of his backup suits.
Speaker C:But I, again, I give everyone a Snyder barely knower.
Speaker C:I, I think again, when you have an entire cast who's on board with the story that's being told, as we found out with the entirety of the Crow series, you could just feel the energy from everyone.
Speaker C:So I think they all did a really good job.
Speaker A:Wicked prayer.
Speaker B:I, I am divided, but I'm gonna give an, I'm gonna kind of give an overall.
Speaker B:Snyder barely know her.
Speaker B:I think if I, if we ask, if we asked for each one, I'd, I'd say not to that one.
Speaker B:Yes to that one, sure.
Speaker B:But I mean, I really like a lot of those actors and I think maybe my issues was more with their script than him.
Speaker B:So.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:Snyder barely know her.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:I'm glad you brought up that.
Speaker A:Even though I kind of said Jesse Eisenberg, very small amount of him here, everything he does here is how I would have envisioned it.
Speaker A:I love that conversation he has on the yacht.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker A:So I actually complete turnaround there.
Speaker A:I still can't believe I actually, there's nothing special about what Willem Dafoe does here.
Speaker A:I just still can't believe that they brought Willem Dafoe in and didn't use him.
Speaker C:It's because he's an Aquaman.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:Bigger.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker A:Character But I just love seeing him again.
Speaker C:The.
Speaker A:The only thing that would keep me.
Speaker A:I'm still gonna go Snyder, barely know her.
Speaker A:But I still can't believe the J.K.
Speaker A:simmons stuff still felt less energetic here.
Speaker A:I don't know why.
Speaker A:Like both versions equally unenergetic.
Speaker C:But I mean, there's no difference between the two versions other than editing.
Speaker C:Like, they, they didn't.
Speaker C:They didn't add anything with him and Justice League.
Speaker C:So it's all the same stuff.
Speaker A:Yeah, but I still go Snyder, barely know her.
Speaker A:Good job, everybody.
Speaker A:Good job.
Speaker A:Supporting guest 20, 000 Justice Leagues under the Sea.
Speaker C:You already use that one.
Speaker A:Did it work this time?
Speaker C:No.
Speaker C:Totally not at all.
Speaker A:I need a new life writing.
Speaker A:It's 2 to 0.
Speaker A:We barely know her.
Speaker A:Let's go.
Speaker A:Zack Snyder here.
Speaker C:They always list they didn't write the script.
Speaker C:He wrote the story.
Speaker C:He did not have any involvement in writing the script.
Speaker A:Oh, that's the only, only writer they have here?
Speaker A:Well, they have Jerry Siegel and Joe Shuster.
Speaker C:Chris Torero is the one who wrote the script.
Speaker A:This must be an error on IMDb really, because.
Speaker B:Let's write them.
Speaker B:Look, let's write to them.
Speaker C:Here's the thing.
Speaker C:This is going to get a squeak by for me as far as Snyder, barely know her.
Speaker C:Ultimately, I do enjoy the story that is told.
Speaker C:And I do think there is more good than bad when it comes to the script.
Speaker C:But as I said with.
Speaker C:With bvs, I.
Speaker C:I can point to several moments where I'm just like, eh, didn't really do it for me the way that I really wanted it to.
Speaker C:But I, I do think even if it's just barely the good completely outweighs the bad.
Speaker C:And it's mostly those moments we keep talking about, like when Superman takes the ax.
Speaker C:Like when.
Speaker C:When you have Wonder Woman really explaining the history of.
Speaker C:Of why Darkseid and Steppenwolf are coming after.
Speaker C:I do love the addition of the.
Speaker C:The anti life equation.
Speaker C:So ultimately I do give it a Snyder barely know her.
Speaker C:But.
Speaker C:And I would have to point it out as I'm watching, there were definitely times where I was like, this wasn't the best.
Speaker B:But yeah, whatever, I'm gonna give it a super bad.
Speaker B:I'm gonna say that I enjoyed it because I just enjoy everything superhero.
Speaker B:Like, it was fun to watch, especially the first time, but there are so many different versions of this type of story that like when I compare it to the other ones or when I talk about like, if what comes to mind.
Speaker B:Well, just any time they've incorporated Darkseid into a plot.
Speaker B:It's been done better.
Speaker B:And then if we're talking the injustice, like super evil, Superman and all that, that's been done better.
Speaker B:If they were talking.
Speaker B:I mean, we did.
Speaker B:We barely got to see the Injustice League.
Speaker B:That would have been cool.
Speaker B:But, like, so just when I look at.
Speaker B:I just have to compare it to other versions of the same story.
Speaker B:And then I have to say, I enjoy those better when I look at.
Speaker B:I mean, I'm gonna point again.
Speaker B:The Flash.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:I did not like their interpretation of the Flash, but there was plenty of things that I did enjoy.
Speaker B:But.
Speaker C:So it's a squeak under.
Speaker B:It's a squeak under.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:But I'm gonna have to go super bad.
Speaker C:That's fair.
Speaker A:You know, these categories are so hard when you watch a movie that you saw another version of.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker A:You know, it's so.
Speaker A:It really is.
Speaker A:It's hard.
Speaker A:So what I'll say is, compared to Justice League, incredible improvements across the board.
Speaker A:Miles.
Speaker A:And not compared to man of Steel, though.
Speaker A:Man of Steel to me is the tightest, most precise.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker A:Thing in this whole franchise, in my opinion.
Speaker A:Cool.
Speaker A:I don't.
Speaker A:The.
Speaker A:Like, I said, the lap from cyborg on, when we really dive into cyborg story.
Speaker A:That Onward hooked me.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker A:But I had to get through a lot of exposition.
Speaker A:I know you liked.
Speaker A:You talked about the story of.
Speaker A:Of Darkseid when they're.
Speaker A:When Wonder Woman's talking.
Speaker A:I'm feeling a lot of exposition at the beginning.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:There's.
Speaker B:There's two hours worth, if we're being honest.
Speaker A:A lot of exposition with moments.
Speaker A:And here's the thing.
Speaker A:What I'll say is that, like, this is why I want Snyder to get a clean shot with no interference.
Speaker A:Because I see all these moments, but I'm like, there's a lot of filler.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker A:I'm just not loving.
Speaker A:I hate tons of exposition.
Speaker A:And I already feel like I'm.
Speaker A:I'll be honest, I feel alienated as the non comic book guy.
Speaker A:They didn't make this for people that don't read the comics.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker A:The Martian Martian Manhunter is an example where I see him transform and like, what the.
Speaker A:And I have no idea who he is.
Speaker A:Why was he.
Speaker A:Think about it.
Speaker A:Think about it.
Speaker A:As a non comic book.
Speaker A:I'm like, why?
Speaker A:Yeah, there's just.
Speaker A:But there's.
Speaker A:There's a lot of decisions here.
Speaker A:And I.
Speaker A:And I do give him a bit of a bogey because of how they treated him.
Speaker A:And also the fact this is Covid and he's he's like, there's the everything version.
Speaker C:Everything's gonna have all of the weird nerdy.
Speaker A:But it felt inaccessible at times.
Speaker A:And I just hate law.
Speaker A:I hate justifying the story through long exposition.
Speaker A:So I do go super bad, but I do want to say it's insane improvement.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker A:Over the Justice League.
Speaker A:So directing Zack Snyder.
Speaker A:No Justice League here.
Speaker A:It's one.
Speaker A:It's two to one.
Speaker C:I mean, so look, knowing that he didn't write the script, because I will say a lot of people complain that his scripts don't flesh things out enough.
Speaker C:None of these have been his scripts.
Speaker C:He did not write any of these three movies.
Speaker C:So let's put that aside.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker C:The script that he had, we're just gonna assume that's what he was given and that's what he's gonna go with.
Speaker C:Cool.
Speaker C:What he was handed.
Speaker C:I think he took everything to a 10.
Speaker C:I think he put his heart and his soul into giving us the performances that everyone gave us, into taking the writing and, and, and expanding it to where it needed to be to have a great time watching this movie.
Speaker C:I think he did his job, and I think it really does all come to a head when we do see the future dream that that Bruce Wayne.
Speaker A:Has at the very right.
Speaker C:Like, I think that really sums up his vision and what he was trying to do.
Speaker C:So I give it a Snyder because barely know her.
Speaker B:I'll also give it a Snyder.
Speaker B:Barely knower.
Speaker B:I'll say my personal opinion on, like, I, I feel like he does.
Speaker B:My problem with all of his slow motion is if you do that for every single scene, it loses its impact.
Speaker B:For the impactful scene.
Speaker C:Sure.
Speaker B:And I feel like that on all the movies I saw him, and I mean, like, literally when this one opened up with a slow mo scene, I was like, are you kidding me?
Speaker B:That was so cool, though.
Speaker C:Oh, that moment would have been cool.
Speaker B:If, if we hadn't seen two movies of the.
Speaker B:It's.
Speaker B:Listen, it's like doing this, there's almost no slow motion.
Speaker B:It's like going to a comedy show and hearing the comedian do the exact same awesome joke.
Speaker B:At some point, you're going to be like, I know it.
Speaker B:You know?
Speaker B:Now here's why I gave him a Snyder.
Speaker B:Barely knower.
Speaker B:I love to see how much it seems like the cast was behind him on this.
Speaker B:Like when you guys were talking about that extra scene he did, and they were like, yeah, we'll just go to your backyard and do it.
Speaker B:Like, that's cool.
Speaker B:I, I if I mean, it feels like, he had to go through the ringer for this one.
Speaker B:And like, I mean, he's just like, what a story.
Speaker B:And like, and then when you look at, you know, non storyline related things and you just.
Speaker B:I mean the action sequences, the visualness of everything, like, there's so many things that he does well and the fact that he has a specific style that we can point to.
Speaker B:And just like with good artists, you're like, well, that's clearly a Van Gogh.
Speaker B:You can look at this movie and be like, that's clearly, clearly a Snyder.
Speaker B:So I'm gonna go with Snyder.
Speaker B:Barely know her.
Speaker B:It's okay if it's not my style.
Speaker A:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker B:But like, but he did his job.
Speaker B:He did it well and his people seem to appreciate him.
Speaker A:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker A:I, again, I keep going back to this.
Speaker A:I want to see Zack Snyder get a clean shot at a movie without getting his ass handed to him by the studio.
Speaker A:Because I see, I see bits and pieces of things I love and I do.
Speaker A:Even though it's not nest.
Speaker A:Like you're kind of saying it's not my style, I do love original styles.
Speaker A:I do like seeing a guy that does something that no one else really does.
Speaker A:And I've seen people try to copy.
Speaker A:I feel like Frank Miller's tried to copy it.
Speaker A:Like people try to copy.
Speaker A:No one really does that slow saturation like him.
Speaker A:Yeah, it's okay.
Speaker B:We don't need people to.
Speaker A:Yeah, it is.
Speaker A:It can't be a little override.
Speaker A:I do like it, like for example, when flash touches the sword back.
Speaker B:That was cool.
Speaker A:That was a good application.
Speaker A:But there are moments where it's overdone.
Speaker A:But my thing is this is, this is the cut that Snyder wanted to put out into the world.
Speaker A:Like you said, it's the everything cut.
Speaker A:I don't see a complete vision here.
Speaker A:I want what I see in the last half of the movie.
Speaker A:I'm like, that's a movie.
Speaker A:I want the premonition.
Speaker A:Just, just the premonition alone.
Speaker A:That's a movie.
Speaker A:I want, I want that in the first half and, and not to be.
Speaker A:Sound like a dick, but if you're gonna ask for four, over four hours of my time, it better be.
Speaker A:There better be some completed story.
Speaker A:And it's really hard to make a four hour movie.
Speaker A:It's.
Speaker A:Let's just get that out there.
Speaker A:Deer Hunter is almost four hours and that is considered a masterpiece.
Speaker A:And that is a hard movie to sit through, a four hour movie.
Speaker A:Irishman, same thing.
Speaker A:I'm a Scorsese fanboy.
Speaker C:Yeah, I still haven't seen that.
Speaker A:You need he.
Speaker A:That should have been shorter.
Speaker A:Asking four hours of my time.
Speaker A:Everything cut or not is a lot.
Speaker A:It's not a complete film.
Speaker A:The first half is.
Speaker A:Is overwrought.
Speaker A:The second half is awesome.
Speaker A:I.
Speaker A:I give it a.
Speaker A:A.
Speaker A:A super bad, unfortunately, because I.
Speaker A:Like I said if that last half, it gives me hope that Snyder's the man in some ways, but I.
Speaker A:This was too.
Speaker A:4 hours is too much of my time, sir.
Speaker A:But you guys won anyway.
Speaker A:You both went for it, so.
Speaker A:Hey, three.
Speaker A:Look at you, cuties.
Speaker C:We agree.
Speaker B:Is that the first time on an episode?
Speaker A:Yeah, y'all definitely didn't agree on the.
Speaker A:On the Batman versus Superman one.
Speaker A:I.
Speaker A:I just edited that one.
Speaker A:Not a lot of agreement.
Speaker A:This.
Speaker A:This was the.
Speaker A:Hey, couch.
Speaker B:Yeah, sorry.
Speaker B:But also like.
Speaker C:But also greater than also fuck you.
Speaker B:I.
Speaker B:I am such a people pleaser.
Speaker B:I left that day feeling bad.
Speaker B:I was like.
Speaker B:I.
Speaker B:I just like.
Speaker B:I.
Speaker B:I knew.
Speaker B:I.
Speaker B:I was like, I feel like I should apologize to someone.
Speaker A:I felt the same way.
Speaker C:I love how we finished.
Speaker C:We.
Speaker C:We stopped recording.
Speaker C:And he's just like, are we good?
Speaker C:And I'm like, dude, yes.
Speaker C:The.
Speaker C:The whole point is for entertainment.
Speaker C:God damn well.
Speaker A:And you pushing me into movies that I usually wouldn't want to talk about has.
Speaker A:Has put actually pulled the negative out.
Speaker A:Like when we're talking about Stallone movies, it's easy for me to cause.
Speaker A:But you put me in a Superman movie.
Speaker A:I'm like, I don't know what to do with my hands.
Speaker A:Three to one.
Speaker A:We barely know we're right now.
Speaker A:20,000.
Speaker A:I'm just gonna keep putting it out there till someone laughs.
Speaker C:It'll.
Speaker B:It'll something.
Speaker B:Someone will appreciate it.
Speaker A:It what's in front of us.
Speaker A:Cinematography, production design, sound, costumes, editing.
Speaker A:Oh, and we got to talk about the score.
Speaker C:So here is the thing.
Speaker C:The score a thousand times better than Danny Elfman's.
Speaker C:However, my biggest complaint with the score is anytime Wonder Woman does anything, I'm like, oh, my God.
Speaker C:Even I was just like, bro, tone it down.
Speaker A:It sticks out like a sore thumb.
Speaker B:It dome.
Speaker C:But that is my only complaint with the score is, is if they had toned that back, if there had been.
Speaker C:You could even still had the motif in there, just not with the vocal.
Speaker C:Could have been cool.
Speaker A:Imagine if you had a friend that every time they walked in a room, it'd be like, shut up.
Speaker C:I'm gonna do that every time I see you now.
Speaker B:But they reference that.
Speaker B:And so one of my favorite YouTube series is Pitch meetings where they.
Speaker B:It's one guy, Ryan George, just talking, acting like he's giving a pitch movie.
Speaker B:And so he's doing it for Justice League.
Speaker B:Every time we met, every time Wonder Woman's in the scene, we're going to play this song from his phone.
Speaker B:And then literally, as he continues to talk about the movie, anytime he says Wonder Woman, he pulls his phone up to the microphone and play it.
Speaker C:Oh, my God.
Speaker B:It's a good joke if you go check it out.
Speaker B:If not.
Speaker B:This is useless.
Speaker C:Outside of that, though.
Speaker C:A.
Speaker C:I love.
Speaker C:I love the fact that he shot the entire movie in IMAX format.
Speaker C:It is a damn shame that it has not been widely released in imax because that square format is something I personally absolutely love.
Speaker C:I hate when, like, Christopher Nolan will swap between aspect ratios.
Speaker C:I just, for, for the love of God, want him to stick with the IMAX ratio for one movie.
Speaker C:Just the entirety of one movie.
Speaker C:Love that about this though.
Speaker C:Absolutely.
Speaker C:Outside of the Wonder Woman motif, I think the score is a thousand times better.
Speaker C:The visuals are incredible.
Speaker C:I know the slow motion thing, some people think it's overdone.
Speaker C:But that opening scene sequence of just.
Speaker C:You're brought right back to that moment at the end of bvs.
Speaker C:You see the shock wave of Superman dying hit the entire world.
Speaker C:And that's what wakes up the mother boxes.
Speaker C:Like, absolutely love it.
Speaker C:I give it absolutely a Snyder Barely Knower.
Speaker A:What do you think?
Speaker B:I'm just thinking about that scene.
Speaker B:They didn't need to put the Snyder cut.
Speaker B:When they showed you that scene, I was like, I freaking know.
Speaker A:I see that.
Speaker B:It's fine.
Speaker B:No, so I'm gonna give it a Snyder Barely Knower.
Speaker B:I think everything is fantastic.
Speaker B:I mean, even the.
Speaker B:Even the visuals.
Speaker B:Ness.
Speaker B:Even I.
Speaker B:The only problem I have is with the editing.
Speaker B:They.
Speaker B:I mean, whereas Justice League cut out too much, I feel like.
Speaker B:And I know that we can't judge this on a completely fair scale because we're seeing kind of like, well, this is what I had figured out.
Speaker C:This is everything.
Speaker B:But if that was a move, like, if that.
Speaker B:If they were really trying with that movie, for lack of a better word, they would need to cut some stuff out.
Speaker C:Absolutely.
Speaker C:No, I totally agree with that.
Speaker B:But other than that, I mean, it's fine.
Speaker A:Yeah, Yeah.
Speaker A:I went super bad and.
Speaker C:What the is wrong with you?
Speaker A:Everything.
Speaker A:Everything.
Speaker C:Jesus Christ.
Speaker A:Hey, you guys win the category.
Speaker B:Give him his face.
Speaker B:Give him his face.
Speaker B:Let's.
Speaker B:Let's hear things.
Speaker A:I love.
Speaker C:Give me your finger.
Speaker C:Oh, I'm holding space for you.
Speaker A:Oh, thank you.
Speaker C:I am Ariana Grande.
Speaker B:Oh, that's where that.
Speaker B:I thought that was a new thing you were inventing right there.
Speaker B:I was like, that's weird.
Speaker A:I'll go positive first, though.
Speaker A:It's weird to say this, but the score kicks Danny Elfman's ass.
Speaker A:Danny Elfman is a legend, but he's out of his element these days.
Speaker C:Oh, my God.
Speaker A:And I love Junkie Junkie XL here.
Speaker A:Is that right?
Speaker C:Oh, no, no.
Speaker C:He did not do this one.
Speaker C:I was wrong.
Speaker C:I will say this.
Speaker C:Two episodes ago, I said he did this score.
Speaker C:He did not.
Speaker C:I still have it up on my phone.
Speaker C:All cast and crew composer Tom Hulkenborg.
Speaker A:No, that's his real name.
Speaker A:That's Junkie XL's real name.
Speaker C:Okay, well then never mind.
Speaker C:Cool.
Speaker C:I was correct.
Speaker B:You were not wrong.
Speaker A:It's just weird they put his real name.
Speaker A:Really Just a massive upgrade.
Speaker A:Completely redefined.
Speaker A:Minus the Amazonian cries.
Speaker A:Completely upgraded.
Speaker A:The bats or the black suit for Superman.
Speaker A:Yeah, killer.
Speaker A:Love what I'm seeing there.
Speaker A:The reason, though I went super bad was part of the reason I don't like the first half is the pacing.
Speaker A:That's why I asked if who edited it.
Speaker A:Because I was like this.
Speaker A:Even though this is the everything cut, it could have used another edit.
Speaker A:Because once it does kick in, once Cyborg story kicks in.
Speaker A:Yeah, that pace is excellent.
Speaker A:Yeah, but the first half was a lot to get through.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker A:For that.
Speaker A:So that's.
Speaker A:That's why I go that way.
Speaker A:But again, total upgrade over everything else in Justice League.
Speaker A:But I just needed.
Speaker A:I just needed more pace at the beginning.
Speaker B:Yes, sir.
Speaker A:So that falls on editing.
Speaker C:But so would you call that a squeak under.
Speaker A:Squeak under?
Speaker A:No, because the first half of the movie is.
Speaker A:Is so long.
Speaker A:This is so much movie.
Speaker C:I mean, sure, they asked me for.
Speaker A:Four hours of my time here, but if.
Speaker C:But if.
Speaker C:If the editing is your only complaint, everything else is good.
Speaker A:Oh, well, no, I'm glad you said that.
Speaker A:No, massive, massive super bad.
Speaker A:Because I just don't buy in.
Speaker A:The CGI was more here.
Speaker A:Dark sides now.
Speaker A:Now I do love the addition story wise of Darkseid.
Speaker A:I think that improves the story massively.
Speaker A:But I'm just so in the cgi and they're like ensconced in this world.
Speaker A:Like.
Speaker A:And when they enter the dome, right.
Speaker A:They're now in a CGI dome.
Speaker A:And there's Parademons.
Speaker A:I just hate that shit.
Speaker A:And I just.
Speaker A:I know that it's a marvel.
Speaker A:You said people love it.
Speaker A:There's vfx, people that say, this is.
Speaker C:This is a crazy moment where Steppenwolf is.
Speaker C:Is beating the shit out of the Lantian guy and throws him against that rock and then walks up and he puts his foot in the puddle.
Speaker C:There's the VFX guys who did the good and bad vfx.
Speaker C:They literally did a whole episode just about that one moment where he steps on a stick and then steps into that puddle.
Speaker C:Because it is one of the most flawless visual effects I've ever seen in my life.
Speaker A:I just.
Speaker A:I just can't stand it.
Speaker A:I just.
Speaker A:I.
Speaker A:It's not.
Speaker C:We can all be wrong sometimes.
Speaker A:I know.
Speaker A:Well, here's.
Speaker A:Here's what I'll say.
Speaker A:I'm not a good candidate for that because I love you guys.
Speaker A:Know the kind of movies I love.
Speaker A:You call me old man.
Speaker A:My old man.
Speaker A:This is coming out.
Speaker A:But.
Speaker A:But until it's convincing.
Speaker A:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker A:Again, Bane.
Speaker A:I'll go back to Bane.
Speaker A:I hate to compare Nolan to this, but Bane in the comics.
Speaker A:And again, I don't know much of the comics of anything, but I do know more about Batman, and he is cartoonish looking.
Speaker C:Oh, yeah.
Speaker A:In the comics.
Speaker A:And Nolan found a way to humanize him and make him very menacing.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker A:And I just.
Speaker A:I just.
Speaker A:That's kind of the standard.
Speaker A:And.
Speaker A:And not that it's fair to compare everybody to Nolan, but I've just seen it done in this world and I just.
Speaker A:I just.
Speaker A:I just can't.
Speaker A:I just can't watch it.
Speaker A:I'm just like, oh, there's so much cgi and it's not convincing.
Speaker A:So that's where I'm at.
Speaker A:But you guys got.
Speaker A:Is where we at.
Speaker A:It is five.
Speaker A:No, it's four to one.
Speaker A:Four to one.
Speaker A:That's right.
Speaker A:How good are these bad guys, huh?
Speaker C:I loved it.
Speaker C:I.
Speaker C:Again, whichever design you like, whatever.
Speaker C:The character portrayal of Steppenwolf in this league's better to pull it back to your 20,000 leagues.
Speaker A:20,000 justice leagues under the sea.
Speaker B:Perfect.
Speaker C:Darkseid looks menacing as fuck.
Speaker C:Oh, my God.
Speaker C:And then even knowing about decide.
Speaker C:And I love that Granny's in there, but they never say her name because, fuck.
Speaker C:That is the dumbest thing I've ever seen.
Speaker B:Oh, no.
Speaker B:She's.
Speaker B:She's like one of the.
Speaker B:The best villains.
Speaker C:But no, the.
Speaker C:The.
Speaker B:Not in this.
Speaker C:She is.
Speaker C:But the.
Speaker C:Just the name calling her granny and the.
Speaker C:The.
Speaker C:I don't know.
Speaker C:It was weird in the animated series, but absolutely love.
Speaker C:Just the nod to who she is.
Speaker C:And I'm sure she was gonna have A much bigger role in the next movies.
Speaker C:But.
Speaker C:And even.
Speaker C:Even somehow the Parademons, even though their design didn't change that much, they got way better in this.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:100 better actors.
Speaker A:They smell fear.
Speaker B:Better Parademon.
Speaker C:Absolutely.
Speaker B:So were you.
Speaker C:Snyder, barely know her.
Speaker C:I think it all like visual effects, whatever.
Speaker C:Character wise, I think he brought way more to the table in this.
Speaker B:Snyder, barely know her.
Speaker B:They amped up Stefan Wolf's character.
Speaker B:So that was our.
Speaker B:I mean I had already given it a.
Speaker B:In general.
Speaker B:Snyder, barely know her.
Speaker B:Last week with what we had a Stephanie.
Speaker B:And then Darkseid is one of the best superhero villains of all time.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:He scares me more than Thanos.
Speaker A:Absolutely.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:There's a.
Speaker B:There's always a debate as to which would be.
Speaker B:And me it's like, well, Darkseid.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:100%.
Speaker B:Like they might be equally powerful, but Darkseid is considered a God on his planet.
Speaker B:So like Thanos is.
Speaker B:Well, I guess all Thanos people are dead.
Speaker B:So.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:Well, he's a God on his farm planet.
Speaker B:Anyway, so where they were going, you could tell the villains were only going to get like In Justice League 2, the villain would have been just better.
Speaker B:So like.
Speaker B:So Snyder, barely know her.
Speaker C:Woo.
Speaker A:This was a really tough category for me again because we're.
Speaker A:There's so much comparison going on.
Speaker C:Sure.
Speaker C:But also I would say taking visual effects out of this part of the conversation.
Speaker A:And I will say I hate the CGI stuff, but in the context of this world, the Snyder cut version, the original version of Steppenwolf, is a massive upgrade.
Speaker A:It's hard to say upgrade because it was the original.
Speaker A:I don't know.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker A:I actually don't know what in the hell they were thinking.
Speaker A:Thinking going with that design in Justice League because it's.
Speaker A:Even though I don't like it technically, it's obviously more menacing.
Speaker A:I will say this though.
Speaker A:I didn't when.
Speaker A:When I just focused on dark side like.
Speaker A:And it was hard because there was so much CGI going on.
Speaker A:I did like his design actually compared.
Speaker A:I don't.
Speaker C:Incredibly comic accurate, by the way.
Speaker A:Yes.
Speaker A:The eyes.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker A:Crushed me.
Speaker B:That's a big thing for him.
Speaker A:That alone.
Speaker A:And so I'll take VFX out of this one because I.
Speaker A:I don't want to.
Speaker A:I don't want to be overly unfair.
Speaker A:The addition of Darkseid, that should have been so prevalent in Justice League.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:Especially since it was in Batman vs Superman at the end.
Speaker A:Yep.
Speaker C:Yep.
Speaker A:It gives it so much.
Speaker A:It gives it so much backbone to.
Speaker C:Correct you actually it is Steppenwolf at the end of BBS when they do.
Speaker B:The upside down painting.
Speaker B:And it zooms in and yes.
Speaker B:All the people.
Speaker C:Oh, I thought you were talking about.
Speaker A:It is dark side.
Speaker C:I thought you were talking about when.
Speaker C:No.
Speaker C:Yes, there's in the water.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:But at the end, like, I don't know.
Speaker C:You're right, you're right, you're right, right, right.
Speaker A:The.
Speaker A:The addition of that makes the story make so much more sense because Steppen Wolf is just an annoying, pathetic.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker A:Ugly looking cancer lung in the last one.
Speaker A:And then here, that, that actually pulled on my heartstrings a little bit.
Speaker A:I was like, oh my God.
Speaker A:Like he's in.
Speaker A:He's in subservience to this God that doesn't want him.
Speaker A:He's a failure.
Speaker A:So that dynamic totally increased it.
Speaker A:And I think it's a very interesting and not a very.
Speaker A:To me, a typical dynamic.
Speaker A:I think it's atypical and I really, I really enjoyed that.
Speaker A:So taking visual.
Speaker A:The fact that I don't like CGA out of it.
Speaker A:My old man, this really good job elevating the story by putting that back in there.
Speaker A:So nice.
Speaker B:It was it.
Speaker B:Before we go into the last category, it was interesting because I looked up why they did the change and it was like an intentional.
Speaker B:They're like, this will make him look more humane and more villainous and like a cancer opposite.
Speaker B:And I, I was like, I was like two things.
Speaker B:One, no, I mean, I liked it better, but I liked it because he looked more pathetic.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:But then two, like, that's a lot of like extra money to spend on like such a small thing.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker A:Even in today.
Speaker A:That's.
Speaker A:That's huge budget.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:Like, that's a like.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:Maybe.
Speaker B:Maybe you could give Cyborg a bigger paycheck and get lawsuits.
Speaker A:I think the estimate was what, 25 million on the reshoots is what they spent on just reshooting.
Speaker A:What.
Speaker A:What studio allows that to happen?
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:Oh, you want to take the spikes away.
Speaker A:Directors have to work on a certain budget anyway.
Speaker A:Then they get this guy for script polishes.
Speaker A:Oh, by the way, here's 25 million to redo everything the other guy did.
Speaker C:Granted, I will say it was also about 25 million to finish the Snyder cut.
Speaker A:Oh, really?
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker A:Wow.
Speaker C:But that was because the visual effects weren't done.
Speaker C:The unwatchable theatrical version.
Speaker C:It's because the movie was not done.
Speaker C:The visual effects weren't finished.
Speaker C:There was a lot that wasn't done.
Speaker C:Wasn't done with the Unwatchable version.
Speaker C:So that's why it was unwatchable.
Speaker C:So this.
Speaker C:He mostly had to finish visual effects and then shoot the one other scene.
Speaker A:Five to one.
Speaker A:One category left, and we're done with the Snyder trilogy franchise.
Speaker A:Thank God.
Speaker A:Good lore.
Speaker C:I.
Speaker C:And I think you're gonna agree with me on this one.
Speaker C:You finish that movie, regardless of how you feel about the first half of it, you finished that movie and you were just like.
Speaker C:Like, you.
Speaker C:I want so much more of this.
Speaker C:Like, once the action really comes in, once you get the idea of where the story is going, once.
Speaker C:Once you're introduced to what is going to be the ragtag group of heroes, anti heroes and villains having to come together to fix the world.
Speaker C:I think, yeah, you're absolutely.
Speaker C:You want to know what is going to happen, what's supposed to happen over those next couple of movies?
Speaker C:So, yeah, 100%.
Speaker C:Snyder barely know.
Speaker C:We're on that one for me.
Speaker B:Same here.
Speaker B:Snyder barely know her.
Speaker B:Taking aside the differences from other interpretations, we've.
Speaker B:You've said this before in a bunch of movies.
Speaker B:Like, when you watch the movie, you're like, this is what.
Speaker B:I'm in this universe right now.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:So within being in this universe, after hanging out with them for four hours, I wanted to see more.
Speaker B:I wanted to see where the storyline was going.
Speaker B:It was because of the characterizations, the.
Speaker B:You know, and it was informed by parts of a variety of things in the comic book.
Speaker B:So by that standard, we can say good lore.
Speaker B:But even if we're just looking at the lore that's in front of us, if you're making a superhero movie, you get to have creative creativity on how you're.
Speaker C:Creative liberty.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:So like.
Speaker B:Yeah, that's the word I was looking for.
Speaker B:You get to decide to take a character like Stefan Wolf.
Speaker B:There's not much to go with because he's kind of a minor villain.
Speaker B:And you get to say, well, we're gonna.
Speaker B:We're gonna enhance his story.
Speaker B:You get to take a character like the Flash and be like, what if he was autistic?
Speaker B:And you get to.
Speaker B:You get to.
Speaker B:You get to make that action.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker B:So you get to do things like that.
Speaker A:So, yeah.
Speaker B:So Snyder barely know her.
Speaker A:Just based on two factors alone.
Speaker A:First of all, the premonition.
Speaker A:I keep going back to it.
Speaker A:Best sequence in the entire franchise was that premonition.
Speaker A:The way it was filmed, the acting, the darkness.
Speaker A:It.
Speaker A:It was.
Speaker A:Of course, it also just aligns with things I like about movies.
Speaker A:The dark, the apocalyptic nature that in and of itself was enough to say, I want a whole universe built on that concept.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:It pulled me in.
Speaker A:And I also just love that Jared Leto moment of.
Speaker A:Of seeing his.
Speaker A:His laugh and everything about his Joker.
Speaker C:So many people said that that redeemed everything that Suicide Squad was.
Speaker C:I still want to see the extra 45 minutes of footage of him from suicide.
Speaker A:I haven't seen the Suicide Squads.
Speaker B:I really am intrigued by his version of the Joker.
Speaker B:Everything I see him in, I hate him in.
Speaker B:So part of me is like, I wouldn't enjoy it.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:But I.
Speaker B:I still want to see it.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker A:The other.
Speaker A:The other thing I'll go with before we wrap up is just Cyborg.
Speaker A:I just.
Speaker A:That was a story.
Speaker A:I got really Lost in need and I texted you guys this, but at that moment I was like, this is a story about fathers.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker A:Every character, for the most part, has some version of a father.
Speaker A:A good father, an imprisoned father, an absent father, a dead father.
Speaker A:Everyone's affected by a father in some way.
Speaker A:And that was the most convincing one because.
Speaker A:Plus I just have this crazy soft spot for Morton because of his T2.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:But I.
Speaker A:That was really.
Speaker A:There was a weightiness there that I hadn't really experienced yet in the franchise.
Speaker A:And that's why I got so hooked in.
Speaker A:It's like all of a sudden there was a story I cared about.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker A:I loved him dealing with his humanity.
Speaker A:And there was such a payoff and a redemption when he says, I'm not alone.
Speaker A:I'm not broken.
Speaker C:Yep.
Speaker A:That was secondary to the Superman taking the ax for him.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker A:That was like, maybe that was more emotional.
Speaker A:I was like, damn.
Speaker C:I think it was more emotional.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:I love.
Speaker B:Because you saw the character development of his arc and that it just.
Speaker B:In the movie, the four hours of movie, you got to see him grow into that point.
Speaker C:And then his dad sacrificing himself so they could find the motherbox later.
Speaker C:Like it just.
Speaker C:It just all came together together so well.
Speaker A:Again, giant disappointment.
Speaker A:I'm not getting a cyborg movie because that story and that premonition were both amazing.
Speaker A:So six to one.
Speaker C:Hell yeah.
Speaker A:Snyder.
Speaker A:Barely know her.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker C:Boom.
Speaker A:So the way we're not going to stack rank these movies because of the way they were released, it doesn't really make sense.
Speaker A:But I do want like a 30 to 60 second summary.
Speaker A:Just we.
Speaker A:We've studied these, we've watched them, we've talked about them at depth.
Speaker A:Like, what is your final take.
Speaker A:Take on this franchise?
Speaker B:Okay.
Speaker B:Mine is.
Speaker B:It's fun enough because I love superhero Movies.
Speaker B:Man of Steel.
Speaker B:I.
Speaker B:It was an interesting take.
Speaker B:I enjoyed it.
Speaker B:I like other Superman stuff better.
Speaker B:Batman vs Superman I didn't like much, but I loved, like, the fight scenes and just like, it just kind of gave me my superhero fix for the time.
Speaker B:And Justice League, the first one, I liked it because.
Speaker B:Because it did have like.
Speaker B:Like just that brighter superhero thing that I like to have.
Speaker B:But I also.
Speaker B:I didn't like it because of the editing, and I didn't like it because we know all the backstory behind the problems behind it.
Speaker B:And then this last movie, even though my third go around, I didn't love watching it.
Speaker B:I remember how hyped I was when it came out.
Speaker B:It was so much fun to watch it and then to watch it again with my friends and to geek out over all the things.
Speaker B:So, like, overall, this.
Speaker B:These movies have given me fun times.
Speaker B:And so, like, I'll give it a.
Speaker B:A Drew's thumb up.
Speaker C:I.
Speaker C:For me, this was really the first time outside of the X Men that I feel like we were given a fantastical yet grounded version of a superhero story.
Speaker C:Nolan was full grounded.
Speaker C:The MCU was full fantastical for me.
Speaker C:And I'm not going to include Justice League and what I'm going to say here, because it is utter in my mind, these three movies and what I know was supposed to come after.
Speaker C:I feel like in the grand scheme of things, people would have been able to look back on especially Batman versus Superman once the whole thing had come out.
Speaker C:But just as an entity in and of themselves, I have a great time watching them.
Speaker C:I personally love the dark, gritty flavor that.
Speaker C:That Snyder took with this.
Speaker C:And I feel like he was moving more into a happier direction before the real big downfall of the injustice section of the story was going to come.
Speaker C:So I absolutely enjoy watching them, imperfections and all.
Speaker A:Yeah, interesting.
Speaker A:Love both those takes.
Speaker A:My.
Speaker A:My final take is I.
Speaker A:I'll go back to it again.
Speaker A:I want to see Snyder get a real shot at something where this.
Speaker A:The studio is not up his ass and ruining his life.
Speaker A:I see bits and pieces of things I like.
Speaker A:Like, I cannot determine whether or not he's a good storyteller, whether or not he can direct a complete film based on these.
Speaker A:Again, I didn't like 300.
Speaker A:I appreciate his stylistic things.
Speaker A:I appreciate originality and differentiation.
Speaker A:That's something we crave in.
Speaker A:In the society of, you know, reboots and unoriginal thought.
Speaker A:So I do like that.
Speaker A:And I want to see that fleshed out in a way where he gets complete Liberty when no one's up his ass.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker A:But you know, I also.
Speaker A:Several times, I think the.
Speaker A:I think nothing was ever as focused as man of Steel.
Speaker A:Man of Steel was precise.
Speaker A:It was a clear story.
Speaker A:And it was the most well rounded in terms of how it was delivered.
Speaker A:The most easiest to understand as.
Speaker A:Remember I'm non Comic Book Guy.
Speaker A:That was the one that I felt the least alienated.
Speaker B:And it could stand alone.
Speaker B:You wouldn't need the other ones.
Speaker C:Yes.
Speaker B:And it'd be just fine.
Speaker A:As they went on, they became less focused and.
Speaker A:And I don't.
Speaker A:And here's the thing.
Speaker A:One of the reasons and fans know this about me.
Speaker A:I love older movies because they have stories like Apocalypse now and Sheen's Heart Attack and all the things.
Speaker A:Things.
Speaker A:All the reasons movies almost didn't do well or get made.
Speaker A:But what I don't like about that in this case is that there's this external influence of fans that give us the cut.
Speaker A:And even though it's cool that Snyder and because of his daughter and all that, I do think in this case it's awesome that he got to release his cut.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker A:But I don't like that troll culture.
Speaker A:And I'm not saying they're all trolls.
Speaker A:There are some good ones, but there also were some very toxic fans.
Speaker C:Oh, yeah.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:That were involved too.
Speaker A:But there was one good thing.
Speaker A:And I didn't put this in my random shows because of the good fans.
Speaker A:$500,000 were kicked up and donated to a suicide prevention charity of Zack Snyder.
Speaker B:That's cool.
Speaker A:So one good thing did come out.
Speaker A:Shout out to those people.
Speaker A:That's killer.
Speaker A:But I.
Speaker A:I really want him to get a shot here.
Speaker A:I don't think these are complete stories except for man of Steel.
Speaker A:And I just, I not.
Speaker A:Not to be unfair, I just go back to Nolan.
Speaker A:Nolan was the first one to really as an adult.
Speaker A:I like the Batmans as a kid, but they don't really hold up anymore.
Speaker A:But Nolan has set this standard and I go back to him as the guy.
Speaker A:I say, this is.
Speaker A:This is how I like to see these types of stories.
Speaker A:But I do think Zack Snyder is a skilled director.
Speaker A:I just want to see it fleshed out in a real way.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker A:So thank you for hanging out with us.
Speaker A:This was fun.
Speaker A:Thank you for asking me to.
Speaker A:To do this.
Speaker A:I was in my.
Speaker A:Out of my comfort zone and it was fun.
Speaker B:Thanks for doing it.
Speaker A:Yeah, y'all, if you want the director's cut of your life, just let us know.
Speaker A:Love you, Tile.
Speaker C:I'm seven.
Speaker B:I'm Drew.
Speaker B:Have a good one.
Speaker A:Booyah.
