Mad Max Beyond Thunderdome
Kyle and comedian and film critic Matthew Blevins dive deep into "Mad Max Beyond Thunderdome," the third installment of the iconic franchise. The duo discusses how this film strays from the gritty, innovative essence of its predecessors, feeling more like a product of the 80s than a continuation of the Mad Max legacy.
SPONSOR NOTES: Looking for a gift for the movie lover in your life? Grab a vintage, midcentury movie poster of your favorite show, film, or sports team from our sponsor Sandgrain Studio! Black FridayCode: DECKTHEHALLS
They express disappointment with the film's lack of compelling villains and the odd tonal shifts, particularly with Tina Turner's character, who feels out of place in this post-apocalyptic world. Their conversation touches on the film's failures to maintain the high stakes and harsh realities of the earlier entries, leading to a less engaging experience. As they wrap up, Kyle and Matthew reflect on the evolution of the series and express anticipation for the next installment, "Fury Road," which they hope will recapture the franchise's original intensity and creativity.
Takeaways:
- The discussion highlights how the Mad Max franchise evolved from groundbreaking innovation to a more conventional 80s action film format.
- Matthew Blevins expresses disappointment in how Mad Max Beyond Thunderdome diverges from the series' original themes and tone.
- The episode critiques the film's reliance on children and how their presence detracts from the overall narrative quality.
- Kyle and Matthew analyze the incongruity of Tina Turner's character and music within the Mad Max universe.
- The hosts reflect on the stark contrast between the gritty world of previous films and the seemingly cheerful atmosphere in Thunderdome.
- They conclude that while the film has its moments, it ultimately fails to meet the franchise's high standards.
The podcast delves into the latest discussion surrounding the Mad Max franchise, particularly focusing on the often controversial Beyond Thunderdome. Hosts Kyle and Matthew engage in a vibrant dialogue that critiques the film’s departure from the gritty, anarchic world established in its predecessors, notably Mad Max and The Road Warrior. Their conversation highlights the stark tonal shift in Beyond Thunderdome, emphasizing how it leans into an 80s aesthetic with mainstream music and a lighter narrative approach that feels more like a family film than a brutal dystopian saga.
Listeners are treated to a critical analysis of the film's characters, especially Tina Turner's Aunty Entity, whose presence raises questions about the film's thematic coherence. The hosts express their confusion about her role in a world where survival is paramount yet features moments of levity and cheer. They also explore the film’s unique setting of Bartertown, contrasting it with the desolate landscapes of earlier films. The discussion touches on how Thunderdome's attempts at world-building ultimately fall short, lacking the visceral stakes that made the previous entries so compelling. While acknowledging some creative elements, the overall sentiment leans towards disappointment in how the film underutilizes its potential to explore deeper themes of survival and morality in a post-apocalyptic context.
Transcript
Movie Wars.
Kyle:Ladies and gentlemen, welcome back to the Movie wars podcast.
Kyle:I'm so glad to have my friend Matthew Blevins in person.
Kyle:What's going on, buddy?
Matthew:How we doing, guys?
Matthew:It's.
Matthew:It's fantastic to be here in person, in the studio, and not just feel like I'm an apocalyptic refugee just ranting from my own office.
Kyle:Yeah.
Matthew:So, yeah, good to be out.
Matthew:I haven't been out of the house in a month.
Matthew:I've been watching nothing but, like, documentaries about mountain living and things like that, so this is fun.
Kyle:Even mountain living is inflated now, you know?
Kyle:I mean, I was looking at, like, getting off the grid.
Kyle:It's more cheaper to stay on the grid now.
Matthew:Yeah, for sure.
Matthew:For sure.
Matthew:They've designed it to be cheaper to stay on the grid.
Matthew:They want to keep track of what we're doing.
Kyle:That's incredible, man.
Kyle:Well, we have been going through the Mad Max series.
Kyle:I'm so glad to be able to do this one in person.
Kyle:And we've been having a good time up until now.
Kyle:I think we've, you know, we both agreed that this is such a unique series, you know, And I think one of the interesting things here, though, is, like, I was angry from the minute the.
Kyle:Before the.
Kyle:Before we even see the first actor or frame.
Kyle:We're all black screen credits and Tina Turner's 80s blaring just right out of the gate.
Matthew:I texted you earlier today about how it's just.
Matthew:It's this subconscious anachronism just right out of the gate.
Matthew:You're taken out of the.
Matthew:Of the reality or the world of Mad Max.
Matthew:And now it's this weird Tina Turner thing.
Matthew:If your town runs on pig shit, there is no way that you have, like, that level of song production available to you.
Kyle:Yeah, yeah.
Kyle:I know that In Brian Mays, his scores for the first two are rustic, and they match the rustiness of the vehicles.
Kyle:This is.
Kyle:I was like, oh, did I put on Fletch on accident?
Matthew:Right?
Matthew:Yeah.
Matthew:It makes no sense.
Matthew:It comes out of nowhere.
Matthew:I mean, I love Tina Turner, don't get me wrong.
Matthew:It's just.
Matthew:It just seems completely out of place in this world.
Kyle:Yeah.
Kyle:And it's funny.
Kyle:I was just.
Kyle:I thought this was the case.
Kyle:Fletch came out the same exact year, so.
Kyle:Same exact soundtrack almost.
Matthew:That tracks and it works for Fletch.
Matthew:I mean, Chevy Chase up to Shenanigans.
Matthew:That's a great soundtrack.
Matthew:Yeah, yeah.
Matthew:Post apocalyptic.
Matthew:Like, it's not a great soundtrack.
Kyle:So rude to be spitting out ice on my own show.
Kyle:I'll cut that.
Kyle:You know, another thing I had here and this kind of hit me and I'm kind of glad this thought randomly hit us.
Kyle:So where we've been up until this point is that George Miller changed things.
Kyle:You know, you spoke beautifully about the Australian film movement that produced this.
Kyle:Not just this franchise, but this new way of doing stunts and car chases and action and high speed.
Kyle:Like, this was all new.
Kyle:And so up until then, this has been the bar.
Kyle:You know, Mad Max 2, the road warrior was the bar for what we had experienced.
Kyle: and this one in: Matthew:Sure.
Kyle:And I was thinking about how like, I was like, what is it about this?
Kyle:Not only is it 80s and they're all a sudden.
Kyle:It feels like instead of influencing the culture, it's been influenced by the culture.
Matthew:Yeah, yeah, that's a great point.
Matthew:It feels like a product of the time instead of a genre defining piece like the previous two had been.
Kyle:Yeah.
Kyle:And then we see the next evolution of action in Terminator.
Kyle:So the year before this, people have been exposed to what this looks like next evolution.
Kyle:And then they take Mad Max off the road for long periods of time.
Kyle:There's.
Kyle:I mean, there's cars at the end and randomly throughout.
Kyle:But they take.
Kyle:They take the Road Warrior off the road.
Matthew:Right.
Matthew:And they almost.
Matthew:They almost call to it in the.
Matthew:In the scene with the camel auctioneer where they talk about how these camels have like all of these car characteristics about them.
Matthew:So it's almost like right out of the gate they're saying, this isn't like the other movies, this is something else.
Kyle:Yeah.
Kyle:And another note I had down.
Kyle:I don't know if you agree with this, but I'm like, God, the running man in 87.
Kyle:Does this better?
Matthew:Oh, absolutely, yeah.
Matthew:Yeah, for sure.
Matthew:You can think of a thousand.
Matthew:Because by that time, the stuff that Australia had done had kind of leaked into the American way of filmmaking.
Matthew:And so you had more dangerous and outrageous stunts and the things that set Australia apart, the things that they had to do in order to put themselves on the map.
Matthew:You know, American filmmakers were kind of getting savvy to that, particularly the market with the home video rentals and things like that.
Matthew:You could just exploit all sorts of things.
Matthew:And, you know, now you're competing in a much wider action market.
Kyle:Yeah.
Kyle:And we're going to see the rebound.
Kyle:I mean, you think about Fury Road, it was a long time between this and Fury Road and a lot of action.
Kyle:A Lot of James Cameron films, you know, and he would put him.
Kyle:It would become him.
Kyle:It would become John McTiernan, would be the directors that kind of put their new stamps.
Kyle:Katherine Bigelow with Point Break.
Kyle:Oh, sure.
Kyle:There would be all these new evolutions of action.
Kyle:And between Thunderdome and Fury Road, you see a hard swing back to almost an obsessive car war, all that.
Matthew:Yeah.
Matthew:It's leaned into religious territory at this point.
Kyle:Yeah.
Matthew:We're back full into Miller's car vision.
Matthew:So it just makes me wonder what had made Miller kind of lose sight of that vision for a moment.
Matthew:And maybe it was that Hollywood money coming into things.
Matthew:Perhaps it was having a co director on board that created a difference in tone.
Matthew:You know, it just seemed.
Matthew:It also was kind of.
Matthew:It seemed like it was aimed toward a younger audience as well as PG 13.
Matthew:PG 13.
Matthew:And I was, you know, on first grade playgrounds, people were talking about Mad Max references because of this movie.
Kyle:Yes.
Matthew:Yeah, it was.
Matthew:Okay, so the first one was like 1.7 or something.
Kyle:This is 10 million.
Kyle:Can it be right?
Matthew:10 million?
Matthew:That sounds.
Matthew:That doesn't sound too much more than Road warriors budget.
Matthew:Honestly, though.
Kyle:Yeah.
Matthew:Because it wasn't that.
Matthew:Around seven or something.
Matthew:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Matthew:So maybe it wasn't.
Matthew:I don't know.
Kyle:What.
Matthew:What caused Miller to taint his vision, you know, Was it.
Matthew:Did he not have a clear vision for this movie?
Matthew:Was he just cranking out a sequel?
Matthew:What?
Kyle:Yeah.
Matthew:I don't know.
Matthew:Yeah.
Kyle:And then we had the partnership.
Kyle:Do you know more about that?
Kyle:I was trying to figure out what drove that decision to have that split.
Matthew:Yeah.
Matthew:I don't know.
Matthew:And I watched a lot of documentary resources about Beyond Thunderdome, and they don't talk a whole lot about that.
Matthew:So, you know, I don't know if it was because tonally, the movie does not have, like, a tonal center.
Matthew:It feels like it's kind of all over the place.
Matthew:It feels like three different movies.
Kyle:Yeah, it really does.
Kyle:Especially when you get to the middle piece with the children.
Kyle:I hated that.
Kyle:It just threw me for such a loop.
Matthew:Absolutely.
Matthew:Okay, where is this in relation to Goonies?
Matthew:As far as the Little Giants, The Goonies or maybe the Indiana Jones and Temple of Doom seemed like a bit of an influence as well there.
Kyle:Yeah, there's a lot of things leaking in here.
Kyle:Whereas before, it felt like.
Kyle:It felt like Mad Max was something that was avoidant of culture.
Kyle:It was more in response to culture.
Kyle:And this feels completely like.
Kyle:Aside from just like immediately getting punched in the face with the 80s, you're seeing almost a cleanliness to these people.
Kyle:Like, even though it's supposed to be dirty and it's overrod and there's a bunch of people in here, like, there's a bunch of cookie cutter stuff happening here.
Kyle:Absolutely.
Matthew:Yeah.
Matthew:And when I was watching earlier, I found it fascinating that every kind of lackey or, you know, apocalyptic, you know, dude in Barter Town looked like a Wes clone.
Matthew:Yeah, they were all.
Matthew:They all had the Wes.
Kyle:Like it was Halloween.
Kyle:Yeah, Wes Halloween.
Kyle:Yeah.
Matthew:Everybody was cosplaying Wes that year.
Matthew:So, you know, I don't know, they just kind of took that one idea that kind of made Wes cool in the last movie, and then they just kind of rubber stamped it and created something that wasn't that interesting.
Matthew:I don't think many of the villains in this particular movie were all that compelling.
Kyle:Yeah.
Kyle:One thing I'd love to ask you is, do you think because you.
Kyle:You learn later when you start to.
Kyle:Because I don't know if you were like me, it's like after you watch all these movies, it's like, okay, what's the chronology here?
Kyle:And then you realize that there's no specific chronology, but one thing that Miller has done is he says, I want these movies to feel like they're being told at a campfire about a mythical.
Kyle:A mythical character.
Matthew:Sure.
Kyle:And so they're going to be weird, they're going to be different.
Kyle:But.
Kyle:But I feel like that can also be a little bit of a scapegoat because this is so.
Kyle:I just feel like this is so out of left field.
Matthew:Yeah, for sure.
Matthew:Yeah.
Matthew:It doesn't fit in with the series at all.
Matthew:I feel like it could be completely removed from it.
Matthew:If you went from Road Warrior to Fury Road, I think it would have been a better series, honestly.
Matthew:You might not have had as much pop culture relevance in the United States, though, if you didn't have Beyond Thunderdome.
Matthew:I think that that kind of brought it into the public vernacular even more so than the Road Warrior did.
Kyle:Yeah, that's true.
Kyle:This is the one that, like, even though the first one, like, basically recreate or, sorry, Road Warrior 2 recreated action, this one is the.
Kyle:Was the water cooler movie.
Matthew:Yeah, absolutely.
Matthew:That's.
Matthew:That's always how it goes, though.
Matthew:Is that the.
Matthew:That the least compelling entry in a franchise is the one that kind of brings it up to public consciousness.
Kyle:Yeah.
Kyle:All right, the questions.
Kyle:Here we go.
Kyle:Quick call to action.
Kyle:Real quick.
Kyle:If you love this show, if you love Mad Max, you got a Mad Max fan in your life, please hit that share button.
Kyle:It's so easy.
Kyle:Spotify, Apple, YouTube, they all have a little button.
Kyle:You can text it, you can mail it to your grandma.
Kyle:You can do whatever you want.
Kyle:Thank you for listening to Movie Wars.
Kyle:Don't forget to share.
Kyle:All right, the questions here.
Kyle:Could this have been called Mad Max Beyond Peter Pan?
Matthew:Absolutely.
Matthew:We had both kind of made a similar observation about these kind of Lost Boys, and I think mine.
Kyle:Where's Rufio?
Matthew:Where's Rufio?
Matthew:I said that this bunch is like one Rufio short from a pack of Lost Boys.
Matthew:I think part that I found disturbing is, like, why were some of them expecting.
Matthew:It's like, how long after the adults left did these kids start breeding with one another?
Matthew:It was a very.
Matthew:Yeah, it was gross.
Matthew:I don't need Blue Lagoon kind of territory in my apocalyptic movies.
Kyle:Yeah.
Matthew:Yeah.
Kyle:And seemingly, you know, the civilization at Thunderdome is not.
Kyle:It doesn't seem.
Kyle:It's not tyrannical compared.
Kyle:Especially when you compare them to other little civilizations.
Kyle:Like, yeah, it's not bad stuff happens, but it feels like, by and large, the people seem happy to be there.
Matthew:They do.
Matthew:And even in Bartertown, I mean, there's a system of laws, it seems largely based around chance.
Matthew:So, yeah, I think that the Legion of Skanks would have done wonders in Bartertown.
Matthew:But, yeah, they had a system of law.
Matthew:They had a lot of eloquence and performative elements in their legal system.
Matthew:I kind of wonder, though, it's like, when you run out of the big carney hats or the.
Matthew:What do you call those.
Matthew:Those big masks that you wear for gulag, what happens to your justice system at that point?
Matthew:They're not making new ones.
Matthew:So, yeah, you know.
Kyle:Yeah, it's real.
Kyle:It's.
Kyle:It's weird.
Kyle:And I'm overwhelmed instantly by it because there's a lot of song and dance going on, you don't feel the depravity that you felt before, like, almost.
Kyle:They're almost jovial.
Matthew:Right.
Kyle:You know, whereas before, we're like, oh, my gosh, some guy in assless chaps is going to stab me in the head with a crossbow if I don't do my life right.
Matthew:Yeah, no, it's.
Matthew:It seems like it would be a world that you could easily find your place in.
Matthew:I would be able to.
Matthew:You know.
Matthew:I think I'd be great at shoveling pig shit myself.
Matthew:Useful.
Matthew:I don't know how to play the saxophone or anything like that.
Kyle:What is with the saxophone?
Kyle:Randomly in this series.
Matthew:Oh, man, I don't.
Matthew:You know, you think it's a callback to the.
Matthew:To the Max's wife character, but then it does add this atmosphere.
Matthew:But this atmosphere is distinctly out of the 80s.
Matthew:Like, it's the.
Matthew:It's this saxophone with the wispy curtains and like, you expect him to have like a black velvet dragon painting on the wall.
Matthew:It's.
Matthew:You know, and then Taunton only seems to know the one song, but to be fair, he can't read music.
Matthew:So there's, you know.
Kyle:Yeah, it's.
Kyle:It's.
Kyle:It's different.
Kyle:It's just.
Kyle:Yeah, I.
Kyle:I'm honestly, I'm hating it.
Kyle:Yeah, I'm just hating it.
Kyle:I'm instantly hitting.
Kyle:Whereas before, I'm like.
Kyle:Especially the first one when, like that first time you see Mel Gibson with the.
Kyle:The aviators on and it's only showing his eyes, I'm like, I'm so in the.
Kyle:I feel like they're trying to.
Kyle:I don't feel like they're catering to the.
Kyle:The fans on this one.
Kyle:This is, like you said, this is a widespread mass appeal film.
Matthew:Right.
Matthew:And in particular to first graders.
Matthew:To me, that.
Matthew:That was awesome.
Matthew:Like watching Mad Max Beyond Thunderdome at 7 years old.
Matthew:I mean, that's a completely different experience than 44, I'll tell you that much.
Kyle:But, yeah, it was WCW.
Matthew:Yeah, exactly.
Matthew:Exactly.
Matthew:And you know, by that point, how many movies could you see that had that kind of content in it?
Matthew:You know, as a kid, that was a fantastic action movie, but among amidst the pantheon of great action movies, it just doesn't hold place.
Kyle:Yeah.
Kyle:And you can say what you want about the campfire tale thing, but the truth is, is that the average person that's going to watch these films is going to want some determinant of chronology.
Kyle:And to me, the questions are.
Kyle:And I think the estimations that I've seen between Road Warrior 2 and this or 15 years, that's like the most common.
Kyle:That doesn't mean anything, though.
Kyle:That's just fanfare.
Kyle:But it's almost like when you live in a dystopian universe, you don't get happier.
Kyle:You know what I mean?
Kyle:Like, Max is a more joking.
Kyle:He's more twitchy and too.
Kyle:And he's more.
Kyle:And you would just expect him to get further.
Kyle:So if this really is 10 to 15 years after road Warrior, we should be getting rabid, angry like we got in Fury Road, Right?
Matthew:Exactly.
Matthew:And I think that it's not paying service to the story or the character.
Matthew:It's paying service to this mass appeal element that we're going to make a max that everybody's going to love.
Matthew:And you could have a teddy bear this Max.
Matthew:But I think Fury Road got it correct immediately.
Matthew:You have, like, this twitchy, squirrely dude.
Kyle:Yeah, yeah, exactly.
Kyle:Second question.
Kyle:Is that Mel Gibson or is that Christopher Lambert?
Kyle:I was like, oh, is this Highlander?
Kyle:Is this Highlander beyond Thunder Dome?
Kyle:What was with his look?
Kyle:The hair?
Kyle:Like, was it just me, or does he look exactly like Highlander?
Matthew:No, you have a fair point there.
Matthew:He's.
Matthew:He.
Matthew:He.
Matthew:I think he was practicing for his Braveheart role there for a little while, and then, you know, he was involuntarily shaved by a bunch of creepy kids.
Matthew:It's a tale as old as time.
Kyle:Yeah, I guess it would be the other way around, because Highlander came out in 86.
Matthew:Oh, that's later.
Matthew:Okay.
Kyle:Yeah, but look it up.
Kyle:Look, it's like Spitting Image.
Kyle:Someone's copying someone because he looks.
Kyle:The hair, that's like a bob.
Kyle:Like the mulleted bob thing.
Matthew:Sure.
Kyle:Yeah.
Matthew:I think it was just a look that made our moms excited.
Kyle:Yeah.
Kyle:Mel Gibson had achieved sex icon status by here.
Kyle:Yeah.
Matthew:He can make bold choices by this time.
Matthew:He's forging ahead with new styles.
Matthew:So if they're not breaking new cinematic territory, then Mel gets to have long hair and be a, you know, a sex object.
Kyle:Yeah.
Kyle:And this is before he found the hobby and DUIs and.
Kyle:And racial slander and horrible road incidents.
Matthew:Oh, yeah.
Matthew:You know, there was a time where, you know, Mel Gibson, he was going to be universally beloved, but then he betrayed all of our trust, and now the heroes are all gone, so what do we do?
Kyle:And now he's making a sequel to the Passion of the Christ.
Matthew:Didn't the guy die in the last one?
Kyle:I actually am working on a new bit about that because people usually introduce me as the host of Movie Wars.
Kyle:So I'll start off talking about movies and talking about how I'm tired of reboots, and I'm like, is this the one where he makes all the bracelets and the fish bumper stickers?
Kyle:Is that what happens in this one?
Kyle:What are we doing with Passion of the Christ 2 here?
Matthew:I think they should go recover, like, cover some of that territory from Jesus's 30s and those, you know, those last.
Matthew:Those last years, they don't talk about so much.
Kyle:Or they could do Titanic, too.
Kyle:Oh, yeah, they didn't really hit an iceberg.
Kyle:It turns out they just got stuck in a, you know, they found a nice tiki bar off the coast of Guatemala and you know, Englishmen and tiki bars, they're incorrigible.
Kyle:Yeah, they can't even, they can't even, they can't even get over it, man.
Kyle:So I.
Kyle:Yeah, that was funny, but randos.
Kyle:All right.
Kyle:This film was originally not a Mad Max film.
Kyle:They were kicking around a post apocalyptic Lord of the Flies, tribe of Children type vibe.
Kyle:There was a script floating around, a concept.
Kyle:You know how Hollywood is.
Kyle:And then some money guy was like, but we should add Mad Max to it.
Matthew:Yeah, it feels exactly like that's what happened.
Kyle:Yeah.
Kyle:And sadly it was George Miller who betrayed us and said, maybe you should find some lost children out in the.
Matthew:Wasteland and then make their lives worse.
Kyle:Yeah.
Kyle:And then.
Kyle:Yeah, and then, like, why did he.
Kyle:What point was he proving?
Kyle:This part really threw me.
Kyle:When he first is interacting with him and one is trying to walk away and he shoots the water jug.
Kyle:Was that an intimidation thing?
Matthew:Yeah, yeah.
Kyle:Okay.
Matthew:He wants to say, he wants to say, listen, there's some scary things out there.
Matthew:You get, you need to know about that.
Matthew:And he was trying to keep them there and I think that he was right in doing so that you had literal paradise around you.
Matthew:And now you're going to go off and live in a shell of a skyscraper and just pump out kids like, what?
Kyle:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Kyle:And.
Kyle:But how lost are these kids?
Kyle:Like, they, they don't.
Kyle:I don't get.
Kyle:Again, nobody is beyond degradation here.
Kyle:The fall off of humanity was quite steep in Road Warrior, in the, in Mad Max 2.
Kyle:Yeah, like we're seeing some like, depraved, violent, dirty.
Kyle:Everything's about gas, you know, Everything, Everyone, the whole economy is gasoline here.
Kyle:People again seem, even the lost children seem jovial.
Kyle:They're not all that dirty.
Kyle:Like, I just not like, I don't know if it's a makeup and costume thing, but they're just not selling me this wasteland world.
Matthew:No, no.
Matthew:And yeah, you've got, you've got these lost Boy rejects that are just out there living easily amongst the apocalypse.
Matthew:They had an easy life, which allowed them to create their own weird ass language and get their own weird ass fashions and things like that.
Matthew:Which, yeah, I think if I were Max, that would be the first thing I'd have people do is like, you need to take all that shit off if you're going to follow me through the desert.
Matthew:I'm not carrying all of your like weird accessories with me.
Kyle:Oh, yeah, they're.
Kyle:Yeah, yeah, they Got.
Kyle:They're hoarding stuff too.
Kyle:Yeah, toasters and.
Kyle:Yeah, it's true.
Kyle:And also there's all of a sudden a surplus of animals, you know, in Barter Town.
Kyle:But these kids are out there surviving the wasteland, which it feels like surviving the wasteland should be immensely difficult because there's not a lot of fair.
Kyle:Like there's not a lot of food out there.
Kyle:But all of a sudden we see camels and pigs and so are we left to assume that there are more animals than.
Kyle:Because all we had was the dog and maybe a couple of random vultures.
Matthew:Yeah.
Matthew:Lizard or two or something like that.
Matthew:Yeah.
Matthew:But they're.
Matthew:They apparently have livestock now, so.
Matthew:Yeah, I don't.
Matthew:I don't know.
Matthew:It doesn't scream apocalypse to me anymore.
Matthew:When you've got livestock, that means you've got colonization happening.
Matthew:And, you know, even if your economy is run on pig sh.
Matthew:That's still an economy.
Matthew:We're, you know, we could do a lot worse now.
Kyle:Yeah.
Kyle:And we're opening a casino next year.
Kyle:So pitch in, you know, get.
Kyle:Get more pig shit going.
Kyle:Next, Rando.
Kyle:When Max was giving up his weapons in Barter Town, he actually gives up.
Kyle:I don't know if you pay attention.
Kyle:I didn't catch it.
Kyle:I had to go back and watch it.
Kyle:Wes's wrist crossbow.
Matthew:Oh, that was Wes's wrist.
Kyle:That was supposed to be Wes's.
Kyle:Yeah.
Kyle:From.
Kyle:From World Warrior, from Mad Max 2.
Matthew:All right.
Matthew:That's a pretty cool nod.
Matthew:If ever.
Matthew:If everybody's going to be dressing like him, then I think that that should go over quite well in Barter Town.
Matthew:Then everybody's going to want that accessory.
Kyle:Yeah, it's cool.
Kyle:And they did.
Kyle:Next random thing.
Kyle:And these are cool details, but they don't ever match the level, these details with the plot.
Kyle:But Max's eyes are different.
Kyle:One of his pupils is actually permanently dilated because of the accident he got in.
Kyle:So they actually gave him a contact that made his eye purposely dilated.
Kyle:I didn't notice it, but I had to like really zoom in and see it and I'm like, I guess.
Kyle:Yeah.
Kyle:I mean, it's.
Matthew:Yeah.
Matthew:You'd think you'd want to kind of point that out and not let it be subtle.
Matthew:It's especially with.
Matthew:Because if you think about the popularity of Beyond Thunderdome, it would have been mostly on vhs and there's no way you would have picked up that detail on vhs.
Matthew:It just wouldn't have happened.
Matthew:It's kind of like.
Matthew:It's kind of like C3PO's, silver leg.
Matthew:Everybody think that, thinks that that's some sort of Mandela effect.
Matthew:No, it's because you had a shitty copy of the VHS and you didn't realize with silver the whole time and.
Matthew:Yeah, it's.
Matthew:Why, why put in a detail that's going to be completely useless?
Matthew:I think you just made Mel Gibson uncomfortable for no, like, real good reason.
Matthew:I don't know, maybe they added something to his performance.
Kyle:Yeah, that's hilarious.
Kyle:It's.
Kyle:It's like, hey, we.
Kyle:We did a thing for the old fans.
Kyle:Remember that?
Kyle:Remember the old fans that probably don't even know who Tina Turner is and only think about car crashes and mohawks and ashless chaps.
Matthew:Well, yeah, I, you know, I.
Matthew:I think that all of the fans need to be serviced in some way, I guess.
Kyle:Yeah.
Kyle:Well, do you want to war?
Kyle:Shall we do the war card here?
Matthew:Let's do it.
Matthew:Yeah, it's not gonna.
Matthew:I don't think it's gonna look so great for this one.
Kyle:Yeah, I'm a little worried and as a fan and I tell people, I'm like, this is one of my favorite franchises.
Kyle:But whenever we get here, it's just like.
Kyle:It's like having a hard discussion with people.
Kyle:So.
Kyle:All right, ready?
Kyle:Top Bill casts Shiny and Chrome, by the way, as a reminder.
Kyle:Shiny and Chrome is our.
Kyle:Yes, our affirmative.
Kyle:We dig it.
Kyle:And Blood Bag is negative.
Kyle:No, Hate it.
Kyle:Die.
Matthew:Okay, so Top Build.
Matthew:We're talking Tina Turner and Mel.
Kyle:Yeah.
Matthew:And as that would be just those two.
Matthew:Just those two.
Matthew:And Tina Turner's performance was just so awkward.
Matthew:It was like she was just kind of ham fistedly jammed into this world.
Matthew:She had an accent that made absolutely no sense to me.
Matthew:It's like Master Blaster runs bot to town.
Matthew:It's.
Matthew:It's like, where, where does it work?
Matthew:So, yeah, I'm definitely going Blood Bag on cast with this one is, you know, yeah, Mel is great as Max, but he could have done that without trying.
Matthew:So.
Kyle:Yeah, I think, I think this is.
Kyle:This is a major blood bag.
Kyle:I think, I think Tina Turner is great in and of herself and she.
Kyle:We love her.
Kyle:We love her because she is Tina Turner.
Kyle:I don't understand her place here.
Matthew:Right.
Kyle:And again, like, she's not all that tyrannical.
Kyle:She somehow whipped all these people into shape and disturbing her and obeying her will.
Kyle:But she never seems, even at the end when she basically spares Max.
Kyle:And I just never see a point where it's like, well, how did she get all these people to Right.
Kyle:Yeah.
Kyle:Especially because women were objects in the first two.
Kyle:They were made objects by the gangs.
Matthew:And apparently you just need a couple of creepy Chinese guys in your entourage and then you can take over a whole town.
Kyle:Or a deep understanding of pig shit.
Matthew:Well, she didn't seem to have one.
Kyle:Yeah.
Matthew:You know, Master had a deep understanding of the pig shit, but oh my gosh, what could she do other than political intrigue and schemes and things like that.
Kyle:Yeah.
Matthew:And not even that very well.
Matthew:So that blew up right in her face.
Kyle:Yeah.
Kyle:And also with.
Kyle:And I actually blood bag Mel Gibson here, I didn't love this portrayal.
Kyle:I.
Kyle:Again, I think you can gloss over a lot of flaws with the whole campfire tale thing.
Kyle:This is, this is malpractice in a lot of ways.
Kyle:To me.
Kyle:He's.
Kyle:He's more jovial, he's happy, he's collected all these weapons.
Kyle:He's, you know, I just don't see this natural progression of this dystopian world.
Kyle:And you can tell that either George Miller either felt that with the feedback on the film or something, because Fury Road is a.
Kyle:I mean, he's adding radiation to the mix.
Kyle:And like, that one's like.
Kyle:So obviously at some point it's like, oh, this probably world probably just needs to continue to get worse.
Matthew:Yeah, it's not going to get better.
Matthew:Your trauma is not going to get better.
Matthew:And easily more easily managed when you've just been feral on the road for 15 years after the events of the last movie.
Matthew:It's ridiculous.
Kyle:Yeah.
Kyle:So.
Kyle:All right, all right, supporting cast.
Matthew:Okay, so we're.
Matthew:We're talking like Master Blaster.
Kyle:That's what's tough.
Kyle:Yeah, that's what's tough about this one.
Kyle:I'm like looking at it.
Kyle:So we got Bruce Spence as Jebediah.
Kyle:Adam Cockburn is Jebediah, doesn't even have a picture in IMDb.
Kyle:So someone was like, we don't even know Adam Cockburn.
Kyle:Frank Thring is the collector, Angelo Rosito as the master, and Paul Larson as the Blaster.
Kyle:And after that, I honestly, I mean, I mean, there's a pig killer, Robert Grubb.
Kyle:I mean, these are just people that I've never heard of since.
Matthew:Well, you know what?
Matthew:I'm going to give it.
Matthew:I'm going to give it a half of a shiny and chrome on this one because I feel like they're about the only redeeming qualities in this movie are some of these side characters.
Matthew:And not enough to give it a full shiny and chrome, but just enough to Give it a half.
Matthew:I mean, the Master Blaster character, that's an interesting idea as well, is kind of taking the brain and the brawn and combining them into one character.
Matthew:That's kind of neat.
Matthew:You see that in some of your Japanese influence things and whatnot.
Kyle:Is that where that comes from?
Matthew:You definitely see it in manga and some of those anime portrayals.
Matthew:It's kind of a trope from that world.
Matthew:But I don't think I had seen anything quite like that in American pop culture, or at least the zeitgeist of American culture in the 80s.
Matthew:So that's kind of a fun idea.
Kyle:Yeah.
Kyle:Okay, cool.
Kyle:Yeah.
Kyle:I actually go half blood.
Kyle:I'll do the blood bag on this until we'll split even here.
Kyle:I don't know what anyone's doing.
Kyle:You know what I mean?
Kyle:Like, no one's.
Kyle:Everyone's.
Kyle:And I say this a lot about movies, but I always.
Kyle:Maybe it's just something I perceive, but I'm like.
Kyle:It just feels like some people got a different script than everyone else.
Kyle:And particularly Pig Killer is one where every scene he's in, I'm just kind of like, okay, like, just not.
Kyle:I just.
Kyle:No one.
Kyle:You know.
Kyle:And the thing about.
Kyle:And we have a category for this, but the thing about, like Road Warrior especially is that there are people.
Kyle:There are people with different personalities that are like, kind of pulling you into the village that they're in or the group they're in.
Kyle:And there's children.
Kyle:And, you know, here it's just.
Kyle:It's like a carnival the whole time.
Kyle:And I'm not finding anyone.
Kyle:I'm necessarily, like, caring if they get saved or not.
Kyle:And, you know, it's such a widespread problem for the film.
Kyle:I don't think you necessarily can blame the actors.
Kyle:I think there's direction involved.
Kyle:Maybe it was the two director thing.
Matthew:Sure.
Kyle:But I'm just not seeing any performances from the supporting cast that make me care enough about any of those people.
Matthew:Scarlet was kind of interesting as kind of that strong female character that is kind of conducive to some of George Miller's other works and things like that.
Matthew:But, you know, she's such a weird kind of.
Matthew:That whole pack is so strange that I think it detracts from, like, caring about them as characters in a weird way.
Kyle:Yeah.
Kyle:And it feels like they were never going to let anyone outshine Tina Turner.
Kyle:Like she was going to be.
Kyle:She was going to be the ultimate, like, female lead character.
Kyle:And that's another thing about her.
Kyle:I was just thinking.
Kyle:I know we Were on supporting now.
Kyle:But like she.
Kyle:For that character.
Kyle:Like, we.
Kyle:There's a lot more to celebrate.
Kyle:Like, how did she get there?
Kyle:You know, and I know we don't have origins on all.
Kyle:Any.
Matthew:Sure.
Kyle:Any.
Kyle:But the fact that you at the time we talk about how time in context matters.
Kyle:Tina turns the biggest thing going.
Kyle: It's: Kyle:You're using her music in a film that never used this type of music before.
Kyle:Of course, a cute could argue didn't really exist.
Matthew:Sure.
Kyle:But like, how did she.
Kyle:How did she get to this spot?
Kyle:Like there's blood somewhere.
Kyle:Right.
Kyle:The bodies are somewhere.
Kyle:But it just feels like you meet her.
Kyle:It's like she's more of a talk show host.
Matthew:Right, right.
Matthew:And where did she find the chainmail bra in the Apocalypse?
Matthew:That's what I want to know.
Kyle:Yeah, yeah.
Kyle:Probably from future Vernon Wells character in Commando.
Kyle:Yeah, he sent it back in time.
Kyle:Yeah.
Kyle:Every time you say chainmail, I think of Bennett and Commando.
Kyle:I love the chainmail brawl is kind of cool.
Matthew:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Matthew:But again, it goes back to the anachronistic qualities of the movie.
Matthew:They're using these homemade walkie talkies to talk down to the power production.
Matthew:But for some reason, they have this epic song production element that's going into this theme song, which, you know, it's not.
Matthew:It's not.
Matthew:If it's not the character's song, then why is Tina Turner doing a song for a Mad Max movie?
Matthew:It's not the character's song.
Matthew:So is that a hint into the character's past?
Matthew:Is that a hint into why, you know, she has this person playing saxophone moodily around her at all times?
Matthew:Who knows?
Kyle:I mean, side question.
Kyle:Did the song, like, just from the very get go, from the fact that, like in the first 10 seconds you're hearing, did that take you out of the world as fast as it did me?
Matthew:Immediately?
Kyle:Yeah.
Kyle:I feel like it like, aborted me.
Kyle:Like I was like, out of the Mad Max world.
Matthew:Yeah, absolutely.
Matthew:I feel like I was retroactively aborted from, like, being a person.
Matthew:Yeah, yeah.
Matthew: Mom didn't have me in: Matthew:I was.
Matthew:Because Tina Turner belted out that goddamn song.
Matthew:I faded away like Marty McFly and back to the Future and his brothers in the picture.
Matthew:I just vanished.
Kyle:Yeah, of course.
Kyle:You know, again.
Kyle:And even though we're not covering Fury Road, that's the rebound from this.
Kyle:I mean, but you have to wonder.
Kyle:It took so long to get that film.
Kyle:Like, were they even thinking about this anymore?
Kyle:But that score sounds like it's actually being played on car parts.
Kyle:You know, like, the orchestral pieces feel, like, rusted, like.
Matthew:Yeah, yeah.
Matthew:It reminds me, I've gone to several silent film screenings where they had this live orchestral performance by this group called the Alloy Orchestra.
Matthew:And they would use, like, pieces of metal and garbage cans and things like that.
Matthew:And they would do a live accompaniment to, like, Metropolis, for instance.
Kyle:Oh, wow.
Matthew:Yeah.
Matthew:So it was, like, live scored with all of these and.
Matthew:But kind of Fury Road score has that kind of junk quality element.
Kyle:I would see that.
Matthew:Yeah, it's.
Matthew:That would be cool.
Matthew:Like, live score Fury Road with, like, car parts and stuff like that.
Kyle:That would be neat.
Kyle:TPAC did here in Tennessee.
Kyle:TPAC is our Arts Performing Arts Center.
Kyle:They did Home Alone with a live orchestra.
Matthew:Oh, wow.
Kyle:That's cool.
Matthew:Right?
Kyle:John Williams.
Matthew:Yeah.
Kyle:Love that.
Kyle:A little different than Mad Max, actually.
Kyle:No, it's like, you know, it's like Home Alone in the middle of this movie, so.
Matthew:Right.
Matthew:No, yeah.
Matthew:It's more like Home Alone than it is the Road Warrior.
Kyle:It so is.
Matthew:And then there's a Miyazaki train quality, which is ridiculous.
Matthew:It's like, why end on a car chase involving a train?
Matthew:I know where the guy's going to go.
Matthew:So it's.
Kyle:Did it also lose its way?
Kyle:I know I keep getting distracted off the categories, but do you feel like it lost its Western qualities, too?
Matthew:Yeah.
Matthew: he master having this kind of: Matthew:That was the only piece of it that remotely felt like a Western.
Matthew:And then they called out the man with no Name, obviously during the Thunderdome sequence, which, as a kid, I didn't get that reference.
Matthew:So I always thought it was hilarious that it's like the man with no Name and then older and you kind of get those Italian spaghetti, Western references.
Matthew:It's funny on Tulip.
Kyle:That is true.
Kyle:That's a very.
Kyle:I mean, that's the whole Dollars trilogy.
Matthew:Yeah.
Kyle:Man with no name, 100%.
Matthew:So it just.
Matthew:It nods at it, but I don't think it kind of hits those core elements like the other films did.
Kyle:Yeah.
Kyle:All right.
Kyle:We got one and a half blood bags here, and we got a half shiny in chrome here.
Kyle:Vehicular manslaughter.
Kyle:How are these road vehicles?
Kyle:The battle, the road war.
Kyle:I mean, that's the characteristic of this franchise, yet we're deprived of it here.
Matthew:Yeah.
Matthew:And they kind of threw it in as an afterthought.
Matthew:At the end.
Matthew:It felt like it didn't belong.
Matthew:It was like, was that fan service?
Kyle:Why?
Kyle:Like, why then?
Kyle:And why in that fashion?
Matthew:I would imagine that George Miller insisted in some capacity.
Matthew:It's like, this is a Mad Max movie.
Matthew:It's got to end on this thing.
Matthew:But like I said, it's like, you know where the train's going to go?
Matthew:It's not going to take a right when you expected a left.
Matthew:And I don't know, it was ridiculous.
Matthew:It was like they threw it in there for no other reason.
Matthew:Just, it's like, oh, yeah, we're a Mad Max movie.
Matthew:I forgot.
Matthew:So let's go.
Kyle:Some of it's pretty good, I would say some the stunts are pretty good.
Kyle:It does not live up anything.
Kyle:I mean, we just got served big time with Road Warrior.
Kyle:I mean.
Matthew:Yeah, because if you took that, that one sequence and stretched it over about a 90 minute film, that's the other movie.
Matthew:And that's what we loved about the other movie so much.
Matthew:But now it's like, it's just in there.
Matthew:There's, like you said, there's a few cool scenes in there, but I don't.
Kyle:Know, we could have used more of it.
Kyle:We went fine with more of it.
Matthew:Yeah.
Matthew:You could replace literally all of.
Matthew:Of, I don't know, the entire middle third of the movie.
Kyle:Yeah.
Kyle:And you go blood bag.
Kyle:Yeah, I go blood back too.
Kyle:And here's the thing.
Kyle: ing this idea in my mind that: Kyle:Right.
Kyle:And because of that, I'm thinking the first thought, I thought, well, if you're going to take the Road Warrior off the road, and that's the thing.
Kyle:Two transformed the whole series.
Kyle:I mean, yeah, one was great, but two is the one that, like, that's the, that's the mythology.
Kyle:And so you take the Road Warrior off the road, you better have a damn good story and reason to do that.
Matthew:Sure.
Kyle:It's like, because would you take the cyborgs out of Terminator to keep going back?
Kyle:That was my first thought of James Cameron was like, imagine Terminator, but there's no cyborgs.
Kyle:You know, it's just like, that's almost the same thing to me.
Kyle:Like, the Road Warrior's not Warren on the road most of the time.
Matthew:Right.
Matthew:He's raising, he's babysitting like disturbed children.
Kyle:Yeah.
Kyle:Yeah.
Matthew:So.
Kyle:And this is the worst.
Kyle:And we have a Category for.
Kyle:But just the worst.
Kyle:Just the worst.
Kyle:Children.
Matthew:Yeah.
Matthew:Yeah.
Kyle:Child acting has come a long way.
Matthew:Oh, my gosh.
Matthew:Yeah, It's.
Matthew:Yeah.
Matthew:I think that whatever cocaine they were feeding the parents of these children, I don't think it was effective.
Matthew:I don't know, man.
Matthew:It was.
Matthew:It was.
Matthew:They were.
Matthew:They were awful.
Matthew:And I wanted them all to be swallowed up by quicksand.
Kyle:Yeah.
Kyle:I wanted Lord Humongous to come back.
Matthew:Yeah.
Matthew:Yeah.
Kyle:And.
Matthew:Yeah.
Kyle:Then you got something and do Shakespeare.
Kyle:All right, that's two and a half.
Kyle:Two half.
Kyle:Here we go on the.
Kyle:The blood bags winning out here.
Kyle:How great is this apocalypse, huh?
Kyle:This is the setting, the apocalypse itself, the scenery.
Matthew:Yeah.
Matthew:It kind of.
Matthew:Because of the use of pig shit as a power source.
Matthew:And you've got this kind of weird legal system that's kind of reemerging in a weird way.
Matthew:I'm going to give this one a half a shiny in chrome for some of those.
Matthew:For some of those elements.
Matthew:It's got some creative apocalyptic storytelling elements that kind of set tropes that continue to this day.
Matthew:So, yeah, it deserves at least a half for that.
Kyle:Yeah.
Kyle:I'll split with you again on Blood Bag, because to me.
Kyle:And the thing is.
Kyle:Here's the thing, the scenery is beautiful.
Kyle:It looks great, but it creates more questions because, like, again, Bartertown is just such a big mystery to me because we have all this.
Kyle:We have all this.
Kyle:I'm trying to think of.
Kyle:We have substance, we have food, we have.
Kyle:Everyone's provided for.
Kyle:People seem.
Kyle:It's like a carnival.
Kyle:We have lots of animals, but there are no other signs or symptoms out there to lead us to believe that.
Kyle:We've gotten to this place in this dystopian world where we can raise unaffected animals and raise, like, happy civil societies.
Kyle:I mean, I know they're.
Kyle:There's a thunderdome in the middle.
Kyle:Don't they seem jovial?
Kyle:For the most part.
Kyle:Like, don't you.
Kyle:I rewatched it today.
Kyle:I'm like, these people don't feel like they've been through anything.
Matthew:Yeah.
Matthew:They're all having a good time.
Matthew:They're chanting.
Matthew:They're having.
Kyle:Master Blaster has.
Kyle:But, I mean.
Matthew:Yeah, yeah, that's that.
Matthew:Which I do have one question regarding the Master Blaster character.
Matthew:Was Blaster.
Matthew:Is he just Australian?
Matthew:Because they all kind of look that way.
Matthew:Yeah, okay.
Kyle:Yeah, I know.
Kyle:I asked the same question.
Kyle:Yeah, dude.
Kyle:That whole thing.
Kyle:If they wanted us to take that seriously, I was just laughing.
Kyle:I mean, I like you.
Kyle:I like the brain and the body thing, but yeah.
Matthew:That childlike innocence in the face and whatnot.
Matthew:It's like he kind of looks like Shane Gillis.
Matthew:That's fine, but what are they telling us here?
Kyle:Yeah.
Kyle:I don't know.
Kyle:I mean, the thing is, it was devoid of the wezes.
Kyle:It was devoid of humongous.
Kyle:None of these people are interesting enough.
Kyle:Even though Master Blaster is creative, it's not being acted in a way that scares me, that makes me fear for my life, that makes me worry about the situation.
Kyle:That's the thing about the first two.
Kyle:It's like, God, this could happen.
Kyle:And these are the type of people.
Kyle:But here I'm just like.
Kyle:Again, I keep using the word carnival.
Kyle:It's like I feel like I'm at a carnival.
Matthew:Yeah, yeah.
Matthew:If you would wear the right costume, you would be fine in that environment.
Matthew:Yeah, yeah.
Matthew:No one's going to mess with you.
Kyle:Whereas in the other ones, it's like that might wear your skin.
Matthew:Yeah.
Matthew:100%.
Kyle:And I keep going back to the assless chat, but yeah.
Kyle:All right, we are.
Kyle:We got three blood bags and one shiny and chrome going here.
Kyle:We got three categories left.
Kyle:I think we.
Kyle:I think we know where we're going, but how good are these bad guys?
Kyle:Huh?
Kyle:What do you think about these villains?
Matthew:Which ones?
Kyle:Yeah, I know.
Matthew:You know, it's.
Kyle:Yeah, it's hard.
Kyle:Who.
Kyle:Who are these villains?
Matthew:Right.
Matthew:They all seem to be protagonists, all on their own mission, I guess.
Matthew:But are you going to count Tina Turner as a villain?
Kyle:I mean, she spares them and.
Matthew:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Matthew:They seem to be having a good time with it too.
Matthew:So I don't know.
Matthew:There doesn't seem to.
Matthew:The only villain is Max because him kind of accidentally, inadvertently leading these children out of the kind of safe haven of the Eden that they were living in to go to a post apocalyptic wasteland to bear children in a burned out shell of a.
Matthew:A high scraper.
Matthew:It's like, yeah, I don't know.
Matthew:No, I gotta go full blood bag on this one.
Matthew:I don't even know who they're counting as a villain.
Kyle:It's like they were confused.
Kyle:It was like, well, if he's not gonna get involved, like.
Kyle:Cause these people at Bartertown don't wanna be saved necessarily.
Kyle:Well, if that's the case, it was like, who is he gonna save?
Matthew:Yeah.
Kyle:Cause who is Max if he's not saving people or getting involved in their lives?
Kyle:Was that the thing?
Kyle:It's like, we gotta have.
Matthew:Yeah.
Matthew:And he tried at every turn to not have These children go with him and you know it on him.
Kyle:I wish that would have worked.
Kyle:Yeah, yeah, yeah, I'll stay here.
Matthew:Yeah.
Matthew:They would have been so much better off.
Kyle:Yeah, I agree.
Kyle:I totally.
Kyle:Blood bag on this.
Kyle:In my.
Kyle:The villains are pretty much my favorite part of these anyway because they're so.
Kyle:It's funny, they're minimal typically, but they're somehow they establish their own individualism.
Kyle:Like, Wes is the perfect example.
Kyle:Wes, I don't use.
Kyle:Sometimes you're like, I don't think that guy speaks a language.
Kyle:He just, you know, like, he.
Kyle:Occasionally, when he does talk, he's like.
Kyle:He's like a.
Kyle:But.
Kyle:But he establishes a personality.
Matthew:Yeah.
Matthew:And a personality that would survive in this world.
Matthew:A lot of these characters in Beyond Thunderdome are just blank templates of, like, this is what a post apocalyptic character would look and sound like.
Matthew:And there's nothing interesting or compelling or unique about any of them.
Kyle:It's like Halloween.
Kyle:Yeah, let's play dress up.
Matthew:100%.
Kyle:Yeah.
Kyle:Oh, we're blood bagging here.
Kyle:All right.
Kyle:Going back, we already hit on this a little bit, but our Western category, Stranger Walks into Town.
Kyle:You know, every.
Kyle:Every one of these films is in some way, especially the first two are heavily predicated on the Western formula.
Matthew:But this one, yeah, it's trying to be.
Matthew:It tries deliberately to incorporate those elements.
Matthew:I just don't think it does so in an organic fashion.
Matthew:So it doesn't feel like a Western at all.
Matthew:It feels like a Peter Pan movie or it feels like a Goonies movie, or it feels like a lot of things, but a Western.
Matthew:It does not feel like.
Matthew:And even if they can make a direct homage to this Sergio Leone westerns by calling him the man with no Name, it doesn't make it a Western.
Matthew:So.
Matthew:Yeah, no, this is the least Western of all of them.
Kyle:Yeah, absolutely.
Kyle:I agree.
Kyle:It's.
Kyle:It's.
Kyle:And I can feel the loss here.
Kyle:And you can say what you want.
Kyle:Be like, oh, you know, film guys, you know, are they trying to make mad mags into Western?
Kyle:It is a Western.
Kyle:And you.
Kyle:And if you look deeply at those themes and you love the western themes, those aren't prevalent here, especially because it feels like.
Kyle:It just feels like Max is not.
Kyle:He's not a big enough stranger here.
Kyle:Like, he's.
Kyle:This is the most open.
Kyle:He's very open.
Kyle:He's very much an open book here, versus where in the past he is more quiet, mysterious, you know, does not wear his emotions on his sleeve.
Kyle:Slightly going insane, you know, always moving in that direction here, he's not moving in that direction at all.
Kyle:He seems perfectly fine.
Matthew:Yeah.
Matthew:And he's taking on odd jobs and.
Matthew:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Matthew:It doesn't.
Matthew:It doesn't track.
Matthew:It doesn't work with the rest of the.
Matthew:The series.
Kyle:Yeah.
Kyle:And I think you get back to Fury Road, and he definitely comes back to being the stranger.
Kyle:In fact, he's probably the strangest of the stranger.
Matthew:Absolutely.
Matthew:Yeah.
Matthew:And it would be the.
Matthew:These are the affectations you would expect.
Matthew:Someone who had been through the things that Max had been through is what you see in Fury Road what you're seeing in Beyond Thunderdome.
Matthew:These are just the affectations of a character who is in a wide appeal action movie.
Matthew:That's it.
Kyle:Yeah, absolutely.
Kyle:Well, it is.
Kyle:We got five to one Blood Bag.
Kyle:We got one category.
Kyle:We got to go through it.
Kyle:We already know what the situation is here.
Kyle:But Strangers in Need, are these people worth saving?
Kyle:I guess halfway through, you figure out.
Kyle:I guess we don't really realize we're going to save anybody until Midway.
Matthew:Yeah.
Matthew:And I'm not entirely convinced that anyone was saved.
Matthew:What are you gaining by going back to civilization when you have this perfect Eden that has fresh water, that's unaffected by Rachel Radiation?
Kyle:They seem pretty good.
Matthew:Yeah.
Kyle:Yeah.
Kyle:They seem happy.
Matthew:Yeah.
Matthew:And now.
Matthew:And now they're often back into the world.
Matthew:The only thing that they had in common with the world that was going on in Bartertown is they all seem to love a good chant.
Matthew:But the kids were creepier about it, so.
Matthew:Yeah.
Matthew:No, they should have just been left alone to have their creepy Blue Lagoon army of.
Matthew:Of weird, incestual children.
Matthew:You know, it would have worked itself out in a few generations.
Kyle:Yeah.
Kyle:And this sounds so mean.
Kyle:I don't care about these children.
Kyle:We're both fathers.
Kyle:We love our kids.
Kyle:At least I think we do.
Kyle:I love my kids.
Kyle:It's hard being a dad, but these kids.
Kyle:I mean, ever since I've become a dad, I have become more sensitive to children, characters, especially in this age where we have better.
Kyle:Like, you know, I don't like Stranger Things, but I admire the kids.
Kyle:Like, they're great actors compared to the kids that we grew up watching.
Kyle:But I.
Kyle:I just do not care about them.
Kyle:Like, they've done nothing.
Kyle:I'm just like, why are we.
Kyle:Why.
Kyle:Why are.
Kyle:If anything, I feel like there's.
Kyle:I'm being slapped in the face by George Miller by being forced to all of a sudden care about them.
Matthew:Yeah.
Kyle:Yeah.
Matthew:And a lot of it seems like a contrivance as well, it's like, how far or how long had the adults been gone before they started, like, talking in this weird way?
Matthew:It seems like, like, they had been several generations removed from outside influence by this point.
Matthew:But it couldn't have been because Savannah didn't look much older than a teenager, so.
Kyle:And they would have shown more defects.
Kyle:Again, like, this is this.
Kyle:This does not feel like even Wes.
Kyle:I keep going back to Wes, but we're in this universe.
Kyle:Like, his speech patterns, like, oh, that guy's been through some shit.
Matthew:Sure.
Kyle:These kids are just like.
Kyle:These kids have been on their own.
Kyle:And they're like.
Kyle:They're speaking, like, perfectly good, like, language.
Kyle:Like, I just felt like they're like.
Kyle:Like, I.
Kyle:I just don't get it.
Kyle:Like, I just.
Kyle:There's a lot of context missing, I think.
Matthew:Yeah.
Matthew:And I think they just took a lot for granted.
Matthew:It's like, yeah, this is what they would act like.
Matthew:Or they.
Matthew:I don't think that they kind of filled in those blanks.
Kyle:Yeah.
Kyle:It's almost like if we just put them in a desert, that's a Mad Max movie.
Kyle:If we have Mel Gibson, some car somewhere, and a desert, that's a Mad Max movie.
Matthew:Yeah.
Kyle:Throw Peter Pan kids in there.
Kyle:Yeah.
Kyle:Tina Turner music.
Matthew:And I don't know what the box office returns were, but maybe he was right.
Matthew:Yeah.
Kyle:On a $10 million budget.
Kyle:I just had it pulled up.
Kyle:It GROSSED in the U.S.
Kyle:and Canada 36 million.
Kyle:It actually worldwide.
Kyle: million gross in: Kyle:So what is that, like, four and a half billion today?
Matthew:Yeah.
Matthew:So maybe we're wrong.
Kyle:Yeah.
Kyle:That's actually like four and a half billion in crypto today, Right?
Kyle:Well, yeah, man.
Kyle:So this was an obvious blood bag for us.
Kyle:I mean, and we've been so.
Kyle:We've been riding so high, you know, it's not that we've given perfect scores to the previous ones, but it's been pretty damn close.
Kyle:What.
Kyle:What are some.
Kyle:What are some.
Kyle:Just more closing thoughts for you on this.
Kyle:I mean, as a.
Kyle:As we're both fans of this franchise, we've.
Kyle:We've had a really good ride so far.
Kyle:I mean, what.
Kyle:This is a bump in the road.
Matthew:For us here, you know, But I can't.
Matthew:I can't be too awful mad at it either, because it is still Mad Max beyond Thunderdome.
Matthew:And, you know, as kind of crappy of a movie as it may be, it's still not, like, an example of the crappiest movies that were being made at that time.
Kyle:It just.
Matthew:It's just unremarkable.
Matthew:I think that's the worst part that's going for it.
Matthew:It's just unremarkable.
Matthew:It's not, it's not crappy enough to be interesting.
Matthew:It's got a few kind of neat ideas in it.
Matthew:But, you know, and then the series, that was it for the series for us for a long time.
Matthew:It's like Mad Max is done with that.
Matthew: eventually proven wrong until: Kyle:Yeah, that's a long time.
Matthew:That's an insane amount of time.
Matthew:So, yeah, I mean this was the capstone of a fantastic series.
Matthew:So I have to kind of put it in that context as well because it was the Mad Max trilogy for me for you know, most of my up and.
Matthew:Yeah, up until my mid-30s it was the Mad Max trilogy.
Matthew:And this was my least favorite entry in the Mad Max trilogy.
Matthew:But it was still more kick ass than a lot of other action movies of the time.
Kyle:It's still better than a lot of dog shit that comes out today, 100%.
Matthew:So, you know, as much as we're gonna probably kind of downgrade it in terms of some of the high watermarks of the series, you know, I think we'll find in a couple of installments from now more to hate.
Kyle:Yeah.
Kyle:Yeah, that's great thoughts.
Kyle:My closing thoughts are I always think of, because I'm such an action fan, I think of action in the arc of how it was like an element of movies.
Kyle:Like it was in Pockets and westerns and in James Bond and like there were action and then things like, you know, Mad Max and then the Dirty Harrys and the Arnold movies in Stallone and James Cameron and you just see this crazy evolution of action here, here.
Kyle:And I just think it's weird for me to admire George Miller as such an innovator in the, in the first two.
Kyle:And the jump from one, like one was a crazy idea.
Kyle:Even though it was simple, it was crazy.
Kyle:And then the jump to two, like that was like, how, how would you even measure that?
Matthew:Right?
Kyle:Like this is an innovator.
Kyle:This is a guy that's pushing the boundaries in here, you know.
Kyle:And again, I, we talked about this.
Kyle:I can't remember what episode, but you and I, it might have been on The Friday the 13th episode where we were talking about how the 80s are kind of in a lot of scholarly ways, the one of the worst decades of film in history.
Kyle:And this is, it feels so much like an 80s movie.
Matthew:Yeah.
Matthew:It's a product of its time, 100%.
Kyle:Yeah.
Kyle:And we talked about the importance of time and context here.
Kyle:But the 80s, like, notably, movies just go off the rails.
Kyle:You know, every Chevy Chase movie, like, once cocaine got on, the script got thrown away.
Kyle:And I know you can't compare Chevy Chase to this, but honestly, like, with the music and the tone, like, you can watch them both and not know when they came out and say those kind of feel like 80s movies, you know, And I just feel like I was a little betrayed by George Miller, going from being someone that changed my view on film with the first two to someone that kind of became subservient to the trends.
Kyle:But then again, the 80s were a horrible period for a lot of film.
Kyle:Now we get Arnold and Stallone and Cameron.
Kyle:Those are some of the benefits.
Kyle:But not everything was in that realm.
Kyle:But again, we see Arnold do this premise better, even though it's based on a Steve or, well, Richard Bachman Stephen King novel the Running Man.
Kyle:But we see this.
Kyle:This Thunderdome ish game show death war thing happen a lot better.
Kyle:And that was in the 80s and that movie was.
Kyle:I mean, I feel like it does.
Kyle:That formula worked well in that scene.
Matthew:Yeah.
Matthew:And you're back in the social satire again as well.
Matthew:And there's really not a whole lot of social satire to be had in Beyond Thunderdome.
Matthew:It's satirizing.
Matthew:It's the series more than anything else.
Kyle:Yeah, yeah.
Kyle:And Tina Turner is so out of place.
Kyle:And again, I love her music and I understand why people are such diehard fans of her music and of her look and everything she does.
Kyle:I mean, she's fantastic.
Kyle:She's just out of place here to me.
Kyle:I just, like.
Kyle:I'm just like.
Kyle:And it's not because she's a woman lead.
Kyle:I know a lot of people here, they're like, well, you know.
Kyle:But the series, like, hasn't been.
Kyle:Women are like.
Kyle:Are very important to Miller.
Kyle:Like, furiosa is very important.
Kyle:But they often become important after they are subjected to being objected and being, you know, tortured in some ways, like the first two, like, women are by and large not treated very well unless it's in the village.
Kyle:Like in the village that he's saving free.
Kyle:Well, but outside of that, like, what the.
Kyle:What Lord Humongous people are doing to women's horrible.
Kyle:But here it's just like, how did she.
Kyle:The story really could have been a.
Kyle:More of a furiosa path.
Kyle:Like, well, how the hell did she get to that place.
Matthew:And maybe.
Matthew:Maybe that's what led Miller down that Furiosa path as well.
Matthew:Like, you have this compelling character and because maybe they just took a lot for granted because you had Tina Turner, maybe that's all they felt they needed to show you.
Matthew:It's like, this is Tina Turner.
Matthew:So you've got a strong woman character who has obviously been through a lot because by that time, we had already heard the stories of the abuse that she had gone through with Ike and all of that stuff.
Matthew:So maybe they're telling a lot of the story just based on cultural shorthand and it would have been better service to tell some of that story in the movie and then completely eliminate the Lost Boys element and make it more about the Tina Turner character.
Matthew:Maybe then you have something interesting.
Matthew:I don't know.
Kyle:Exactly.
Kyle:And my last closing thought, I think you stripped the elements.
Kyle:Like, even though the Western is more of a sub theme that you sense in these films, you take the Western elements out, which.
Kyle:That's where the minimalism comes from.
Kyle:That's where the stranger walks into town.
Kyle:That's the dichotomy that makes you care about people that you usually wouldn't.
Kyle:And you're cheering for them.
Kyle:That's all gone here.
Kyle:And you take Max, you take the Road Warrior off the road, and it became immediately uninteresting to me, which is funny because I watched Running man and you put people in, like, a death match situation in a dome or whatever.
Kyle:It does interest me.
Kyle:But that wasn't ever trying to be a Mad Max movie.
Matthew:Right.
Kyle:You know, and I honestly, like, I just wanted, like, once I saw the end, like, the glimpses, like, oh, they do remember how to do this thing.
Kyle:And then it was over.
Kyle:It was like, that's all.
Matthew:Yeah.
Kyle:I didn't get more of the road, the road warring, you know?
Matthew:Yeah.
Kyle:So those are my closing thoughts.
Kyle:So we are going to do Fury Road next.
Kyle:And, you know, I can't wait to do Fury Road.
Kyle:Not for the obvious reasons.
Kyle:It's one of the few movies I've seen in theaters multiple times.
Kyle:I saw it three times.
Kyle:I met someone a couple months ago that saw it eight times.
Matthew:That's fantastic.
Kyle:In theaters.
Kyle:I don't know who has that kind of budget.
Kyle:They don't have kids.
Kyle:But, you know, it really.
Kyle:It reopened this franchise for me.
Kyle: , and I just had to watch the: Kyle:And so it is interesting when you go into a beloved franchise and it's reinvigorated.
Kyle:Now this is interesting because George Miller himself is the one that reinvigorated it.
Kyle:Whereas, you know, the Crow franchise has been bastardized by a bunch of low hanging fruit.
Matthew:Right.
Matthew:There's not like an auteur vision like there is with this series where there's a unified vision.
Matthew:And I think that Miller is only kind of gotten more distinct with what he was going for with that vision all along.
Matthew:And I also can't wait for the Fury Road installment of this series because I actually avoided seeing Fury Road for a long time for the same reasons that Quentin Tarantino had mentioned.
Matthew:It's like a Mad Max movie without Mel Gibson that exists in a world where Mel Gibson is alive.
Matthew:But then you go and you watch it and it's undeniable.
Kyle:So, yeah, yeah, I mean, Mel was old.
Kyle:Yeah, I mean, he's an old, old, you know, I mean, like, oh, he looks good for 60, Mel Gibson, whatever.
Kyle:However old he is, he doesn't look good for whatever that is.
Kyle:He looks embattled.
Kyle:He looks.
Matthew:Yeah, he looks like one of my great uncles in Nebraska.
Matthew:It's like they wear their age.
Matthew:Every minute of their age is on their face.
Kyle:Yeah.
Kyle:Every time you see Mo Gibson interview, it's like he looks like he just got the shed beat out of him.
Matthew:I love him.
Kyle:And I love him.
Kyle:But.
Kyle:But yeah.
Kyle:Well, dude, thank you so much for joining me again.
Kyle:This was a lot of fun.
Kyle:It was six blood bag, one shiny and chrome.
Kyle:So this one did not make.
Kyle:Did not pass muster with Matthew and I here on Movie Wars.
Kyle:But thank you all so much once again.
Kyle:Share the show if you have a Mad Mags fan fan in your life.
Kyle:Love you all so much.
Kyle:Thank you.
Kyle:I'm Kyle.
Matthew:Thank you so much.
Matthew:I'm Matthew.
Kyle:Yes, sir.
Matthew:All right.
