Jaws Vs. Jurassic Park (Ep. 0004)

Movie Wars: 0004

[00:00:00] Movie Wars, episode 0004. We got Jaws vs. Jurassic Park, I mean You're gonna need a bigger f*cking boat. Hello ladies and gentlemen, welcome to Movie Wars podcast episode 4. I'm your host Kyle, and we're gonna need a bigger podcast. Hold on to your butts, I'm Drew. And I'm Phil, and if, if If you just put your, put your hand like this, just hold, hold it steady, and um, well, I know we're in a helicopter, but just hold it steady.

[: 00:00:27

[00:00:41] Everything, he even, he even put water in my hand, it was weird. But, uh, today we have another dandy of a, of a war here. We got Jaws vs. Jurassic Park, I mean. Jaws vs. Jurassic Park, let's do it. We don't take it easy on ourselves here at Movie Wars. We like to pick the best and, uh, this is gonna be difficult. I, everyone's faces right now, there's a lot of [00:01:00] intrepidation in the room.

[: 00:01:00

[00:01:23] When we saw Jurassic Park the first time, but one of the interesting things about art and especially films today, you know, they're held up [00:01:30] to a different standard and the standard of today seems to be movies are held up against this, you know, who does this movie elevate and who does it not elevate?

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[00:01:53] When I, when I watched these two films and I read the Jaws book and Drew read part of, uh, Jurassic Park, it is not easy to make a pure [00:02:00] adventure film. A film that really has no intention other than to take you on a ride, entertain you. You fall in love with characters a little bit, but the characters are there to serve the, to serve the narrative of the adventure.

[: 00:02:09

[00:02:25] There are all these subplots, and it was a book, right, it sold millions of copies, you have to have juice, right, it [00:02:30] can't just be a book about a shark bite and stuff, like, there's a mob thing, and in the book, it's the mob that's putting pressure on the town to not close the beaches because the mob owns all this real estate, and they're gonna start busting kneecaps.

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[00:03:03] She's cheery, she encourages him, they're in love, they have this really playful relationship. But all that to say, Want to get drunk and fool around. Yeah, I know, right? I love that line. That was, that was such a great line. It's so good, and the way that, that, uh, is it Lorraine Gray plays that off? I love that.

[: 00:03:18

[00:03:35] You know, Roy Scheider really brings that character to life. In such a big way and makes him lovable, he's a little grumpy in the movie, but he's mostly lovable, fun, charismatic. And I look at how Spielberg said, we're not gonna do, we're gonna pass on the main author, thank you for writing this script, but that's not what we're gonna do.

[: 00:03:50

[00:04:05] What it doesn't accomplish. But how can you do that with these two movies? What does it not accomplish? They're act they're I mean, they got great action, but they're adventure films. They take you on the adventure, and I knew when I put in Jaws and when I put in Jurassic Park, no matter how I felt about them, I was going on a ride.

[: 00:04:19

[00:04:32] Well, an interesting thing about Jurassic Park, especially, I know we're talking about Jaws right now, but speaking of what art doesn't do, is if you read the reviews for Jurassic Park in 1993, This movie got some pretty mediocre reviews. And all the reviews talked about how this plot point was flimsy, or that plot point was flimsy, or this piece of acting was bad, or, or this thing was weird, or how like, oh, this movie's all flash and no substance.

[: 00:04:58

[00:05:24] It's literally all about what the movie does wrong and does poorly. But what stood the test of time is the way the movie makes people feel. [00:05:30] Well, I, I think that there, if you look hard enough, there is a feminist reading of this film. I, uh, you kind of have to dig for it, but Which one, Jaws? Of Jurassic Park.

[: 00:05:38

[00:05:56] Life finds a way, which I think is fascinating. And then there's the little [00:06:00] quote from Laura Durran's character, and gold bloom goes on and on about how God ki you know, people kill God. And she was like, and then God kills dinosaurs. Dinosaurs kill men, women inherit the earth, which I think is funny. Wow, you blew my mind just now.

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[00:06:32] My biggest memory, always when I I don't know. I did. I know. I didn't see a lot of movies growing up at theaters because we were poor, but I did see this one somehow. Six, dude. Six. My, I, when I think of Jurassic Park, I always just think of whatever that dinosaur's called that spits venom and stuff, eating Wayne Knight.

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[00:07:05] It's not my favorite film My favorite film was taxi driver But I think jaws cinematically speaking from a historical perspective when you put it up against other movies of any genre I think it's the best movie ever made. There's a lot of things about it that aren't perfect But I just think I don't know why I just feel like it's the best movie ever That's what my fan gut tells me My favorite scene is when quentin gets eaten because that was david verse goliath to me, you know quint To me, is this grizzled, amazing, he's one of the best characters.

[: 00:07:29

[00:07:42] He's so larger than life, and when the shark eats him, it feels like We lost a good one today. I didn't want him to die, and I know he dies. I've seen this movie hundreds of times. I know he dies, but I never want it to happen. So that scene sticks out to me and, and Jaws. Uh, what is your experience, Drew, with these movies?

[: 00:07:56

[00:08:12] When it happened, it added to the like, no pun intended, jaw dropping when he was eaten. It was like, no, no, this can't be happening. My experience with these films, I cut my teeth on Spielbergian cinema when I was a little kid. E. T., Jurassic Park, Jaws, that was like my wheelhouse as a kid. I loved it. [00:08:30] I will never, ever forget the magnificent feeling.

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[00:08:57] And I think that's the thing that ties [00:09:00] these films together the best is that the star of both of these films in a lot of ways is your imagination because there's not a lot of heavy hitting Hollywood actors. I mean, there's great talent, great actors, but no, there's not a Tom Cruise or a Kevin Costner or like whoever was huge at the time.

[: 00:09:16

[00:09:36] And so that's why I love these films and that's what I love about Steven Spielberg, so. That was prolific. We could almost end right there. I know, yeah. That was an amazing assessment, my friend. Nobody wants to hear my experience. You just, you warm me up. Do you have any favorite scenes? Well, my favorite Jurassic Park scene is the one with the Brachiosaurus when they first My favorite, I think the most memorable scene is indeed the Quint when he's getting eaten.

[: 00:09:57

[00:10:14] That was a pretty magnificent scene too. Incredible. And Quint eats nothing. Every time he's eating, he eats half, like half a cracker. Remember? He's just like a slow one bite and he's done. It's like. You guys ever noticed his hat is like, the bill of his hat is bent and like off centered. The bill of his hat.

[: 00:10:27

[00:10:42] He pretty much podcasted all over all of us just a second ago. Um, my, my experience, what I would consider to be an experience, is probably much stronger with Jurassic Park because I was Seven or so when that movie came out and so I was of the age where the merchandising of that film [00:11:00] Really took kids like what drew was saying with you know It really makes your imagination just launch and the the imaginative aspects of Jurassic Park I think captured everybody in that age bracket Especially because when you're a kid dinosaurs are already pretty cool like half of us Just grew up playing with dinosaur toys, or just being obsessed with the concept of dinosaurs.

[: 00:11:19

[00:11:37] And I snuck into the living room and hid behind the couch and watched half the movie before I got caught and was ushered back off to bed and I remember just watching this whole thing and and being, the whole time just being blown away, like I remember sitting probably 20 feet back from the TV hiding, watching all this and, and seeing the dig site and then when they first see the dinosaurs and just as a [00:12:00] kid being like, This is the coolest thing I've ever seen.

[: 00:12:02

[00:12:17] It made me think like, oh, it's not this great movie, it's just a monster film. And I remember when I saw it for the first time, I was like, man, this there is some significant substance here. This is truly a great film. And then watching it again for this podcast. [00:12:30] Man, there were just so many subtleties and amazing parallels of things that I think people think that we're only going through now in this generation with the cattiness and aggressiveness of people was reflected so well in Jaws because that town goes from like Zero to sixty on the concept in no time and people flip into panic mode, you know You've got people wanting them to close the beach and people not wanting them to close the beach and people wanting them You know It's gonna it's gonna destroy the town and destroy the 4th of July if you close the beach and just the minutiae of [00:13:00] human Emotion and politics has really never changed and at the end of the day the thing that Jaws That I came away from this viewing of Jaws with, was that people are the same, they've never changed, and that when, if you give people something to be controversial about, they're gonna do it.

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[00:13:34] Uh, so yeah. Yeah? You have any favorite scenes? This is gonna be a weird one, but for Jaws, my favorite scene is when, uh, the police chief's sitting on the beach in early in the movie, keeping an eye out, because there had been that shark attack, they found the girl, and he wanted to close the beach, and and the town didn't want him to, so he's just there nervously watching.

[: 00:13:54

[00:14:11] Yeah. It was amazing cinematography, especially for the time, and the, and the, the vision to shoot a scene like that. Loved it. Isn't it crazy how that movie's about a shark? But you see little of it and so much of the horror is about what you're not seeing the human reaction. Yeah, it's insane You just pointed out something huge that scene and [00:14:30] I didn't think about that that way when they zoom in on the she's face He's just literally like because he knows look the acting in that moment and the look on his face.

[: 00:14:38

[00:14:53] Jurassic Park had some cool scenes too. Yeah, I mean, yeah. I mean, right, the dinosaur looked great, yeah. Do you want to talk about a favorite scene from Jurassic Park? [00:15:00] Uh, no. Oh, I have one, I have one. Go ahead. Ah, ah, ah. Ah, ah, ah. Ah, ah, ah. You didn't say the magic word. Wayne Knight from Seinfeld in every way is amazing in this movie.

[: 00:15:13

[00:15:32] I think it was 171 days or something like that. Good lord. It was a lot. Uh, 4 million budget that went to like 14 million, which now is like a 30 million budget going to like 150 or something like, like that's a colossal failure from a studio standpoint. So Spielberg literally almost got fired every day.

[: 00:15:51

[00:16:14] You'd wait. Because it took so long for us, because if it was wide angled and it was in the bag, it took an hour for the ship just to pass. Yeah, and then they had the, they asked, he had to make the decision, like, do I, I've got seven minutes here, where I could try to shoot it, or if I miss it, or another boat comes [00:16:30] in right after, and then I've gotta, like, reset, and I've wasted a whole nother, yeah, it's, it was a riddled shooting schedule.

[: 00:16:36

[00:16:54] So the terror you're seeing is real, because they did it unpredictably. There was no pattern. She says in the commentary that she's [00:17:00] horrified, because they actually don't, she doesn't know, and she's in the ocean, and she doesn't know how or from what direction she's getting pulled, so. What did they tie the cables to?

[: 00:17:08

[00:17:26] So, it's not like she can be like, help, help, save me. Like, [00:17:30] because she's already saying that. Did they not have a safe word? Like, Peanut Butter Crackers, you know? Yeah, not that I heard of. That would have been a great moment, because Steven Spielberg talks about how he just almost quit. Like, he wanted to quit so many times because of how poorly he went.

[: 00:17:43

[00:17:57] It worked less frequently than it didn't work. I mean, it never [00:18:00] worked, it was part of the reason Spielberg wanted to quit. You know, when you watch the documentary and watch it being made, it's pretty incredible what they accomplished when they built it. And the thing weighed over a ton, it was 25 feet long.

[: 00:18:10

[00:18:24] Almost better that it didn't work because yes, the lack of seeing the shark is so [00:18:30] freaking horrendous So that's why they use the barrels and that's why they use all these different Mechanisms to show the shark without showing the shark well something interesting about the fact that you didn't see the shark for the first hour and 20 minutes is Spielberg and his subsequent movies have never been able to assist escape that because especially in the case of Jurassic Park, all the reviews I read for Jurassic Park from the time period were comparing Jurassic Park to Jaws and saying like, Steven Spielberg did a really amazing thing with not showing the shark in [00:19:00] Jaws, it's really too bad he couldn't, you know, keep the lid on in Jurassic Park because you see the dinosaurs 20 minutes in.

[: 00:19:05

[00:19:25] And it was a theme park. Yeah, exactly. I mean, if you're gonna I mean, you're going to see the stuff. I mean, and [00:19:30] also, you know, what are we, almost 30 years after the fact with Jurassic Park and no one cares cause it's a great movie. So you shove that, that a nitpicky bullsh*t up your ass. Phil, ladies and gentlemen, Spielberg insisted on filming it in Martha's vineyard on the water because the studio wanted to do it.

[: 00:19:48

[00:20:05] And so that was his decision as a, you know, just leading the shoot. Like that was his call, ended up getting into a lot of trouble because he couldn't, he had no control. But then as a creative, just made a narrative decision, like, okay, shark doesn't work. I have to find a new way to tell this story. And like you said, it.

[: 00:20:21

[00:20:38] Remember, basically, Quint, I can't remember exact phrasing, but he'll never be able to drag the barrels down. And when the shark drags the barrels, you're not even seeing the shark, but you see him drag the barrels like, Okay, that's what we're dealing with. And the shark in that scene is the most real that it's, as it is in any other scene.

[: 00:20:54

[00:21:08] They don't waste a lot of time on exposition, exposition. It's just boom, boom, moves the story along. The pacing is so good. Uh, it's just great. Incredible storytelling, really. And some of it was by accident. You gotta wonder what it would have been like if 27 year old Spielberg didn't take the risk of using a mechanical shark in a real ocean during the worst time of the year.

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[00:21:44] I always wondered, like, why didn't he do Jaws 2? It was such a phenomenon, like, watching the behind the scenes footage on this film, it's like, oh, of course he didn't do the second one, that was a nightmare to film, like a total train wreck. Of course it ended up being a great piece of work, but it was not fun for [00:22:00] anybody.

[: 00:22:00

[00:22:18] He's like, why? That sounds terrible. I'd rather stay home and watch it when you're done. Like, I don't want to be a part of that, but his, his first debut picture came out and it was. It got terrible reviews and everybody's saying like, [00:22:30] if this comes out and you don't have another job lined up, you may never work again.

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[00:22:56] She says that in the, in her interview. She was [00:23:00] super bummed. Richard Dreyfuss looks like a hippie college student in that movie. Just like, I love animals. I feel like he kind of looks like Steven Spielberg a little bit. Yeah. He looks like the fuzzy hair and the spectacle glasses. Like, I feel like he kind of cast himself.

[: 00:23:13

[00:23:32] Like, Hooper is annoying in the book. Uh, you know, Ellen Brody is, is desperately sad and depressed. Like, he elevates these characters to lovability. He really did. The only person you don't love is the mayor, and you kind of do love him because he wears those crazy suits. Yeah, and honestly, I'm glad that they went the direction they did with the chief, because I felt for the guy the entire film.

[: 00:23:51

[00:24:10] This guy is like, just exists in conflict. And you can see it on his face the entire film. And dude, I just felt for the, for the dude the whole time. And that's such a archetypal role too. There's always the guy that's like trying to toe the line between the company, like there's like he's working for the man, the government, the corporation, whatever, who's like overly concerned about money [00:24:30] and optics and yeah, it's just that guy.

[: 00:24:33

[00:25:07] This is probably the only thing I wish they would've kept, was, in the book, the town has had multiple bad tourism seasons. So, when this starts happening with the shark, they're in despair, because they've had a couple of down tourism seasons, and like, because the mob has I wouldn't want the mob in there, but because the town Has mob ownership in it.

[: 00:25:25

[00:25:38] But I did like that kind of economic tension where people were losing their jobs because they've been having bad seasons. Real estate sales were down. Well, it made it, it gave the whole thing some weight. Like, how easy would it have been to just be like, well, close the beach. And then they close the beach and nothing happens.

[: 00:25:50

[00:26:10] The first act, I mean, it's kind of, it's really two acts. The first act is on the beach and it doesn't go in the water hardly at all. And the second act is just, okay, they're going to the water and they're never going to come back. But I just find myself, anytime I go on vacation to a beach or beach town, I think of Jaws.

[: 00:26:25

[00:26:38] It's almost 50 years old. Unbelievable. 46 Still looks incredible. I love it. It looks better than any CGI shark ever. Deep blue sea, that shark still is more convincing. So we'll storm through because we haven't even gotten into Jurassic Park randos. Um, you're gonna need a bigger boat is improvised. So that was an improvised line.

[: 00:26:56

[00:27:13] The next, obviously they had rough outlines for the film, but they would write the dialogue for the next scenes. They were gonna shoot the, the following day the screenwriter and Steven would get together in their cabin that they shared during the shoot. and just tighten it up, tweak stuff, they had the actors from the scenes come by because they studied their character and they [00:27:30] knew how to bring them to life and so the whole thing was just kind of like in flux the whole time.

[: 00:27:34

[00:27:51] He would yell. I'll give you five dollars to jump off the mast of the sailboat like he was just constantly just [00:28:00] getting under his skin and you can sense in the commentary and even though Robert Shaw is dead and Dreyfus isn't, Dreyfus really has no bones about it. He's like, Shaw was a dick. Like, you can kind of sense, but one thing that is true, is that during the Indianapolis scene, so this is why these two are connected, first of all, Shaw was drunk the first time he did that scene, and he completely slaughtered it.

[: 00:28:19

[00:28:37] Because he said the way that Shaw, and they didn't expect it, they didn't know what he wrote. And when he did it differently that next day, sober, and, and the way he wrote it, he said, I couldn't, I almost couldn't stop, like, almost crying. the way he delivered that. He was so moved. Think about the, it's the one heavy moment in the whole movie, right?

[: 00:28:54

[00:29:07] You got to bring that humanity down to earth, you know? Exactly. That's well said Phil. That was the moment that it went from being a movie to a film. It took it from just, like, entertainment to, like, it gave it some heart and some, you know, some real substance. And the fact that he wrote it in, oh man, I visualize, it's funny, we have a literal shark in the movie, but I'm just imagining, like, little sharks just eating hundreds of people out of the [00:29:30] water after that wreck, like, and that stays with you, like, and he conveys that horror, it's so convincing, it's one of the best scenes.

[: 00:29:36

[00:29:55] Like it's just the most chilling. And it totally explains Quint. You're like, oh, this is [00:30:00] hard ass. What's his deal? You know, what's his story? Why does he have such a vengeance against sharks? Why will he find a shark for three grand but only kill it for ten? Right? But then he tells that story and you're like, oh, I get you.

[: 00:30:11

[00:30:31] Like, how intentional was he being? Because think about, from a storytelling perspective, how they used, they used a moment of levity to launch into that, because they're talking about scars. Dreyfuss says, Hooper says, the girl Moffat broke his heart, and they're laughing, and Right. He kind of makes light of one of the scars, and it's the scar that leads to the story.

[: 00:30:48

[00:31:03] Hooper Calls out the scar and Shaw kind of just looks down and kind of looks left and well, Hooper, that was the Indianapolis and he kind of the way he that's almost the most masterful part is he slowly drifts into that story out of that moment of levity where Hooper is literally having an asthma attack laughing about He's Moffat breaking his heart.

[: 00:31:20

[00:31:45] Who do I need to apologize to is this? It's irreparable, basically. And Spielberg's like, come back and do it again. We could talk about Jaws for like three hours. We have another movie to get to, Kyle. Gonna be the longest podcast of all time. I do want to say one more fun fact, though. Steven Spielberg called the [00:32:00] special effects department the special defects department, because the shark never worked.

[: 00:32:05

[00:32:24] Is Stan Winston in almost every movie? That we've done, except for Jaws. Every iconic great movie, yeah. What's amazing [00:32:30] about Stan Winston, and, and, I, I experienced, when we covered Aliens, when he, when he went to Aliens, cause he only consulted in certain areas in Aliens, one thing that James Cameron said about Stan Winston is, he never, Winston is never afraid of what's new.

[: 00:32:42

[00:33:12] So, so, um, and this, Drew, this is gonna really stick out to you, and you may already know this, but other possible candidates for roles in this movie were William Hurt, Harrison Ford, Yep. Alan Grant, Christina Ricci as Lex, cause she was the age of the girl, and Sean Connery as Jan, John Hammond. I mean, I can honestly see all those.

[: 00:33:29

[00:33:49] So that makes total sense. Yeah, and actor Richard Attenborough, who played Hammond, came out of retirement. He had been done with acting for years when he took that role. He was in Hamlet. It's always interesting to [00:34:00] me to hear the alternates considered for a part, or maybe sometimes the first people considered for a part, that either turned it down or were passed over.

[: 00:34:07

[00:34:24] I don't think it would have changed anything. That's the 90s crew. Yeah. That was, I mean, Christina Ricci was in the Casper movie, which was huge. [00:34:30] I think it was around the same time, too. Adam's family, I mean, she was in all the major stuff. Yeah, Adam's family. But I'm gonna keep harping on this. Part of the allure of these films is that the star was the dinosaurs and the sharks.

[: 00:34:42

[00:35:01] He's goofy, he's quirky, he's not dead sexy, even though he, you know, had that button down shirt there. It's pretty, pretty sexy there for a minute. But, other than that, like, you like these guys because they're not huge stars. Those things blooms like gold. Although, I will argue this. Robin Wright as Ellie instead of Lara Dern.

[: 00:35:17

[00:35:32] Pretty crazy, right? What do you mean, like how so? Like the first movie where they actually like incorporated digital elements in the score, in making the score. So what they would do is they would take like an elephant sound, a penguin squeal, an ostrich sound, and they would record them and assign them to a MIDI, basically.

[: 00:35:49

[00:36:07] But didn't he oversee that stuff? No, he would, that would have been sound effects, but he did score. Yeah. I just went in hard with John Williams and Drew denied me, but I deserved it. I deserved it. You heart of the pan, I blocked it. You swatted me down like Dikembe Mutombo. Called for charging. In that moment.

[: 00:36:20

[00:36:39] And the kids in the movie acting and responding to nothing, so what they did was Steven Spielberg walked around with a bullhorn making fake noises. And so he would make fake noises or play noises into the bullhorn and they had to like focus on him and, and pretend. Like, they were reacting to something real, but most of what they're reacting to, and especially in the outdoor scenes, is nothing.

[: 00:36:59

[00:37:12] They're reacting to literally trees. Steven Spielberg was just holding up a bag of Doritos in the distance, and he's like, you, you nail this scene, you get the bag of chips. This bag of Doritos is a dinosaur. Shall we war, gentlemen? Let's war! Let's war! Let's do the war card. This is gonna be tight. Can we score two?

[: 00:37:29

[00:37:47] Drew, what do you think? Oh, that's a, that's a tough one. Uh, I, man. I think I gotta go, I gotta go Jaws. Okay. Mmm. Why? Because I love Richard Dreyfuss. I think he accidentally made the [00:38:00] most brilliant decision he could have ever made by doing this film. And it's sort of, I just don't see Richard Dreyfuss becoming Richard Dreyfuss without this movie.

[: 00:38:07

[00:38:26] Like you want the trifecta, the legend, the guy in the heart, [00:38:30] the heart of his career and the newbie. I'm going to go slow and steady wins the race here with Jurassic Park. Okay. Cause you had Richard Attenborough, Sam Neill. Laura Dern. Yeah, I mean, you got Peaky Blinders in Sam Neill's corner, and you've got What Don't You Have in Jeff Goldblum's corner.

[: 00:38:45

[00:39:06] I'm a big fan of the Damien, the Omen franchise, and even though Final Conflict, which is Damien 3, or Omen 3 didn't get great reviews, I thought he nailed it as an adult Damien. And that was kind of like, that was late 70s, right? Or early 80s? Event Horizon. He is horrifying in Event Horizon with Lawrence Fishburne, like, this is literally the only movie, and this is, this is the scene that I can't get over with Sam Neill.

[: 00:39:26

[00:39:43] If you don't have a true reference point for your knowledge, then what do you have? Just what you know and what you've studied. And so he's one of the foremost experts in dinosaurism. We'll call it that. Okay, paleontology. In the world, yeah. Dinosaurism. Paleo dietology. I like [00:40:00] dinosaurism better though. So.

[: 00:40:01

[00:40:22] Yeah, Timmy, I think, is like, his biggest fan. He's read his books, he's read his dissertations, he's asking all the right questions, [00:40:30] he knows the industry, and he's a frickin what, 7, 8 year old kid? And he's still a total dickhead! Yeah. He's looking like He's just not likable. And Laura Dern, I also don't find likable.

[: 00:40:43

[00:41:00] Cause the characters in the book are not recognizable. If you had never seen the movie, you would have no reference point. Because in the book, they're all different. Quint's barely in it. He's at the end and he dies by accident. He's not even eaten by the shark. Hooper's a dick. Dies of drunkenness. Yeah, Scheuter's annoying, but, or sorry, uh, Brody's annoying.

[: 00:41:15

[00:41:31] All the people with Google that will then comment in the comment section. Good for them. They know a lot about Robert Shaw because they just Googled him. That's great. They can war with us on Reddit then. We said we're fans. We're not critics here, okay? But yeah, so that's one point for Jaws. I mean, Phil, you stood your ground and I respect it, but you lose.

[: 00:41:47

[00:42:10] I think they're just some of the best kid actors. Her screaming and her terror, it's a little over the top, but it does it for me. I think they're great. And you got Wayne Knight. Samuel L. Jackson and I love Wayne Knight as Newman. I actually go Jurassic Park on Supporting Cast. I think that the top Bill Cast and Jaws is unbeatable, but I, I, it's hard to beat Samuel L.

[: 00:42:27

[00:42:45] Samuel L. Jackson, before he's Samuel L. Jackson, they found a gem. You know, a diamond in the rough, if you will. Um, the kids, I could take or leave the kids. I thought they were fine. They were fine. Um, but I think the lawyer is good. Like even when, when Hammond's saying, we are not, [00:43:00] we're not only doing this for the ultra rich or whatever.

[: 00:43:01

[00:43:18] Like he's kind of smarmy and we are God. Uh, yeah. So I definitely agree. Jurassic Park. Jurassic Park all the way, all the same reasons. Like what? I don't need to give more reasons. Alright, we're gonna get into, we're pretty quick off the [00:43:30] bat here with a fun category. What would you rather get eaten by? Jaws or a dinosaur?

[: 00:43:34

[00:43:52] Why, like that, at least you get to die uniquely. Of all things, I didn't expect this to be a PSA against you. Water. Yeah. [00:44:00] Today. Water sucks. Water sucks. It really, really sucks. Just in general, or the ocean? Well, Gatorade not only tastes better, it quenches your thirst better. So But there are no sharks in your Gatorade.

[: 00:44:08

[00:44:28] Like, I was eaten by a [00:44:30] dinosaur, and you were killed in a cra in a car wreck, you stupid son of a b*tch. Drew, you two are a clever girl.

[: 00:44:39

[00:44:56] It's more agile. And they scratch. Dinosaur, no doubt. [00:45:00] Quicker. Get her over with. Cool her death. Well, I go Jurassic Park 2, and the reason for me is with the shark, I mean, it doesn't, if you're just basing it on the movies, not because, here's the interesting about Jaws, I mean, this became what people thought sharks were because the research on sharks was so minimal compared to, we didn't have Shark Week, we didn't have these people dedicating their lives, we knew very little.

[: 00:45:19

[00:45:33] Or do you, do you, does he swallow you and you have to live in the gut for a minute? I mean, there's so many potential horrible outcomes. Like Drew said, I think if a T Rex bites you in half You might, you might have a couple of gas, but you know what's, you know what's going on. You're on land, at least you're dry, no one wants to be wet too long, you don't want to get rashes.

[: 00:45:50

[00:46:10] Imagine being in a shark's stomach, maybe. Because maybe in the stomach of the shark, you've already lost a limb. Maybe you lost your leg. In the book, it describes that the lady, like, the first thing she feels, she thinks she snagged something, but she feels, and she feels the bloody stump of her leg missing, and she says, it says, it describes, Benchley describes she feels The pulse of warm [00:46:30] blood pouring out of her leg and then the shark swallows her.

[: 00:46:33

[00:46:54] Remember the lunchboxes, the backpacks, that symbol was everywhere. It was everywhere. There were flip flops with the Jurassic Park. [00:47:00] Yes, there were. Amazing. This is going to be a fun category. The CGI, now I do acknowledge there is practical effects, but Jurassic Park is known for the CGI, versus the practical effects of Jaws.

[: 00:47:12

[00:47:41] And he beats the sh*t out of the Jeep because of that. And then, I think it's Jeff Goldblum grabs the flashlight to pull it away from the jeep. And there is a split second moment where he swipes the flashlight across the body of the T Rex. And it looks so good. Like, [00:48:00] it just, it looks so unbelievably convincing, even almost 30 years later.

[: 00:48:06

[00:48:37] Well said, Drew. It's great, I love this specific example. Uh, I'm gonna go more 30, 000 feet and say Jurassic Park because I feel like the practical effects at this point were pretty, uh, dialed in. It was pretty, that's, that was the height, the absolute peak of practical effects. Which is a lot of the T Rex, a lot of the smaller dinosaurs that you see.

[: 00:48:58

[00:49:21] It's staggering. And especially when you look at Jaws, I mean, it's aged really well. But if you look at how the shooting process went, it was a total [00:49:30] disaster. And I think Spielberg's genius bailed them out, whereas he kind of leaned on Stan and the CGI crew to really Make it, uh, an epic, iconic, memorable film.

[: 00:49:43

[00:50:03] But the minute I see the ocean, I have to take my shirt off and run in. I just want to smoke cigars by the ocean. Well, that too. We'll get that. We'll We'll get there. We'll get to that. But, I like swimming a hundred yards out and swimming. I just love the ocean. But if I watched Jaws that day or the day before, I still don't want to swim.

[: 00:50:19

[00:50:38] But I A wooden shark? Whatever it is, it's made, it's material, okay? Compared to your, your computer generated shark, or your computer generated dinosaurs, okay? I still wouldn't want to swim the next day. It terrifies me, and I know it's a fake shark, but it still terrifies me, and I love what he does with it.

[: 00:50:56

[00:51:13] When the shark's there, it's convincing. He uses it right. And there's four movies in this series. They get worse with each movie. I actually like Jaws 2. I don't love it, but I like it. A lot of people didn't. I thought it was still a good entry. It didn't live up to one. Because you'd already seen the shark, so you knew.

[: 00:51:26

[00:51:45] with each movie. I mean, it just gets worse and worse. There was something about the way Spielberg worked with that hunk of junk that made it effective, and it still scares me. And I just gotta give Spielberg props for that. That's a good point. But that's not to say that Jurassic Park's not amazing. You know, and I go back, and we talked [00:52:00] about this on the last podcast with Aliens, uh, verse T2, which is, what did James Cameron say about working with Stan Winston?

[: 00:52:05

[00:52:26] And so I do want to give Jurassic Park a nod, it's what Steven Spielberg accomplishes with [00:52:30] these dinosaurs. Because think about it, we have sharks today, we see them on TV, but we've never lived amongst dinosaurs. But when I see it, I get so excited because like, This is what dinosaurs were like. So even though Jaws wins, Jurassic Park is no walk in the park.

[: 00:52:42

[00:53:04] Maybe Jaws grows legs. Use your imaginations here, but Drew, start us off. What if it's just freaking Jaws versus T Rex? Space. The great equalizer. Or space, yeah. Space shark. How can you not go T Rex? Thank you. I guess it's a tough question to ask. If you're in the water, if you're underwater, in, you know, 20 feet, then obviously the shark wins.

[: 00:53:23

[00:53:41] Should I go so you can hear my thinking? If Richard Dreyfuss had to wrestle Jeff Goldblum Here's where I go. I'll start off and I'll set the tone. Who's still here? The Megalodon was The predecessor to the Great White, and it was here, sharks were here when dinosaurs were here, who's still f*cking here?

[: 00:53:57

[00:54:09] Amazing. Well, you could make the counter case that sharks evolved, they already re evolved back to sharks since the Extinction level event of whatever struck the earth that killed dinosaurs. Yeah, the meteor, the flood, or whoever. The minnow that survived already evolved back to the [00:54:30] shark. I know, dinosaurs just couldn't hack it.

[: 00:54:31

[00:54:50] Go ahead. I mean dude, I just think all I can see in my mind is like a shark going after a T Rex and the T Rex just Slapping the sh*t out of him with his head just [00:55:00] like, f*ck you, shark. Just beating the sh*t out of him with his head. But the shark is biting its legs. Like So here's the thing about this.

[: 00:55:05

[00:55:21] Dude, done deal. This is so obvious. Stomp all over his head. And then piss on his corpse. This is obviously shark. I'm going Jaws, but that's true. Gotta go [00:55:30] JP, but, well, I already went. I'm going JP, but, uh, side note. A couple of numbers that were dropped in both movies. The Brachiosaurus, which is the long neck, 27 feet long neck?

[: 00:55:40

[00:55:59] [00:56:00] Nothing. Fair enough. I I I'm going Jurassic Park just because I'm gonna fanboy this one and and mail it in and, uh This is getting ugly. Go ahead. This is what you might call a Landslide. Ohhhh! Well, I feel like I'm being waterboarded right now, because I, my whole intro, so for those listening I write this philosophical, beautiful intro to kick us off and I talk about how Jaws is the best movie of all time, 5 to 1 right now.

[: 00:56:28

[00:56:50] Here. I'll go. I'm just f*ckin with you. When you think about Spielbergian cinema, just the magic of [00:57:00] Hollywood and blockbuster, Jaws was an accident, okay? Nobody set out to make Jaws on purpose. I was an accident. Yeah, we were both accidents. Jurassic Park, E. T., Close Encounters, I mean, the list goes Saving Private Ryan.

[: 00:57:15

[00:57:41] Best Spielberg film. Best Spielberg. Best Spielberg being Spielberg. Ah, man, to me that's easy. Jurassic Park. Why? It stays on brand. It's, it stays on brand. Okay, all the rest of Spielberg's films are on brand with Jurassic Park, therefore Jurassic Park is in Spielberg's brand vertical. Jaws is [00:58:00] definitely departure from what makes Spielberg Spielberg.

[: 00:58:03

[00:58:20] Duel is why he was drawn to Jaws, because it was very similar in format. It was a made for TV film. About, uh, it was about a truck [00:58:30] chasing a car or something. Yeah, it was a guy in a truck chasing a civilian in a little car. But you never really saw the truck or knew what the truck wanted. It was kind of like similar.

[: 00:58:37

[00:58:53] I mean I love, and here's the thing, this matches my personality. I'm a minimalist. Maybe if he was 37 it would have been a better movie. [00:59:00] Mmm. I'm just f*cking with you. I mean, I mean, if you watch every Jaws after, no one was ever able to match it. So, again, it doesn't matter, but I love, I can't believe what Spielberg accomplished with a real shark with a, with a physical shark, like not CGI.

[: 00:59:12

[00:59:27] The kids getting eaten by the sharks are better [00:59:30] than Sam Neill in this movie. OK, that I agree with. The performances, however, you're discounting. I know that your whole thing drew is the imagination. It's beautiful. That was a beautiful spiel, but for this category, that's bullsh*t. That was a beautiful spiel, but for this category, it's bullsh*t.

[: 00:59:46

[01:00:02] Okay. Yes, that's what I thought too. That's how I heard the question. Otherwise, you should just say, what's the best movie? I'm just mad. It's just a different conversation. I'm just mad. And I hear you. We're going pretty hard for the park. Super hard. But if you're just saying what's the most Spielbergian film, it's Jurassic Park.

[: 01:00:18

[01:00:39] Couldn't handle an asteroid, though. Let me, I'm gonna cut out, I'm gonna cut out best score. No! Are you kidding me? Two of the most iconic teams? Listen, all these categories are great. Cut off your own balls, Kyle! Let's storm. Best score. I'm gonna start. I'm gonna say Jaws. Okay? [01:01:00] Here's the reason. Remember how I went on this spiel about how it's adventure?

[: 01:01:05

[01:01:24] This is a movie wars podcast coup. Jaws was yawn. Against the host. Jaws was meh. Here's why. Here's why Jaws [01:01:30] wins this. I love how the theme is used sparsely, okay? We all, the two note thing is probably the most legendary score ever, right? I agree. It's, it's so iconic. But it's actually sparse. The thing that sticks out to me is the way they match, and I'm a big music guy, I talked about this with Robocop.

[: 01:01:46

[01:02:10] It's the most memorable piece of music probably in film for me. However, the two notes in Jaws, the genius of those two notes, Not only became a cultural phenomenon, but you can't hear those two notes without thinking of sharks. Like that's the [01:02:30] most unbelievable accomplishment as a composer. Tell you what, I'm gonna Compose two notes in a sequence and pair it with some sort of visual and you're gonna think about that for the rest of your lives Amen as a freaking universe to that end is as brilliant as Williams work was in Jurassic Park I don't think he can beat himself And Jaws, so I go Jaws.

[: 01:02:51

[01:03:15] That is Jurassic Park. Yeah, it's the rolling credits, for sure. I, I'm with you guys on this one. It, there's an emotional aspect to the Jurassic Park theme that is undeniable. But if you're going with just, the Jurassic Park thing's iconic too, but if you're going with [01:03:30] iconic, like, doing the most with the least, two notes has never conveyed more terror than, Duh dun.

[: 01:03:37

[01:04:09] Exactly. You can't get in a freaking pool with your kids without, you know, pretending to be a shark and saying, Duh nuh. Like, it's, it, yeah. And SNL used it for the land shark skit with Jeffy Chase, and the land shark, doo doo. They even used it for that, so. Well, Robert Shaw is turning in his grave. He's thankful that he's He wanted to skip that category, and it was Yeah, Robert Shaw is thankful from the grave [01:04:30] that it's now 2 to 6.

[: 01:04:31

[01:04:47] Which one would make a better exotic pet? If you could put Jaws in a shark tank in your house, or have a T Rex, or have a Velociraptor, I mean, if you're a billionaire, and you're on the Movie Wars podcast, which animal are [01:05:00] you? gonna own. Well, being a billionaire myself, I, uh, I have a fish tank. Drew invented bullsh*t.

[: 01:05:08

[01:05:24] But I think it'd be easier to contain than, say, a T Rex. If I'm a billionaire, I don't care about how easy it [01:05:30] is to can uh, contain. I'm going rarity, I'm going uniqueness, I'm going I've got something no one else can get. I'm going T Rex. Well, I'm going Jaws because I think it would be funny to prank people and pretend like you're gonna push them into your shark tank.

[: 01:05:45

[01:06:00] And they like, literally torture you before they kill you. They cut you here. At least you could run from a shark. If it breaks out of the tank, it just flows out and eventually just stops moving. And stops breathing. But have we given it time to grow legs and to see what would happen then? How much time you got?

[: 01:06:14

[01:06:32] the dinosaurs. Let your imagination run wild. Let the whiskey flow through your veins. I feel like Quint would take down the Velociraptor, unlike the hunter guy who was like, Good girl. Um, I feel like he'd be bested by the T Rex, because the T Rex is, is most similar to the shark in its viciousness, and sheer size, and just, you know, viciousness.

[: 01:06:53

[01:07:13] That's interesting. Yeah, we keep harping on the T Rex situation, but there were a lot of dinosaurs that weren't T Rexes. You know, and Quint was a student of the game. I feel like he, had he built a profession chasing dinosaurs, he could, uh I could see him taking down two or [01:07:30] three or twelve. So, I'll go Quint.

[: 01:07:32

[01:07:46] Brody and Hooper, Hooper's a marine biologist, but he's not a shark hunter. And Brody is afraid of the water. He had a subpar offensive line. on this boat, and you could almost argue the reason that the freaking shark gets on board and eats him is because he had a [01:08:00] subpar crew. He couldn't do his process, and it's all about the process, right?

[: 01:08:04

[01:08:20] At this point, this is sympathy points for Jaws. Sympathy points, indeed. I love this category. Best intro kill scene. Both of these movies start with a kill [01:08:30] scene from an unseen creature. I mean, Jaws. I mean, to me, it's Jaws. I mean, think about it. The intro scene is the most prolific movie poster of all time.

[: 01:08:38

[01:09:03] I mean, the, the Jurassic Park one's pretty rough too, where the guy's like, you know, getting the, uh, Velociraptor into the holding situation, just gets dragged in. And the, the impetus of Jurassic Park is Hammond attempting to Prove that is getting people to endorse his island because of that tragedy But the I mean both of those scenes kind of kick off what both of those movies are But the jaws scene is just more memorable and it's just [01:09:30] legendary So yeah jaws and from a legal perspective when you're working at jurassic park, you sign an nda, you know, you could get eaten They're not letting you work on their like.

[: 01:09:38

[01:09:53] I don't want to get too crazy. In general, next category, just best kills, best deaths. I mean, we're going to, we're leaning [01:10:00] into horror here, because typically this is Michael Myers, Jason Voorhees, but we got two creatures, or two sets of creatures that love to kill. What are the best deaths, best kills, which movie has them?

[: 01:10:08

[01:10:32] Okay, that was a good death. That death is so It's just the man When you're on the toilet, I would I would debate that you were in one of the most vulnerable positions you can be in as a human. You are unclean, you're sitting in a position where you're defenseless. And not only does that happen, I mean, he's not taking a sh*t obviously, but just in general, you're, you're sitting there, you're sh*tting, you're, you're defenseless.

[: 01:10:55

[01:11:18] But, the most, uh, well rounded deaths, I'm gonna say Jurassic Park, because they killed the smoker, the fat guy, and the lawyer. And those are three villains everybody hates. That's the, and that's the [01:11:30] triad I can go to Outback without somebody smoking. Yeah. But you want to die doing what you love. I mean And taking a sh*t.

[: 01:11:36

[01:11:52] What an impact. And it toys with its food. The, the, it just seems to me that the shark, the, sorry, the dinosaurs are a little lazy. They kind of act on their [01:12:00] Darwinian instincts too much. The shark has fun. The shark is like Hannibal Lecter. It toys with its food. Makes it feel at first. It's not gonna eat you right away.

[: 01:12:08

[01:12:26] I don't think so. That was an oversight. Alright, here we [01:12:30] go. You gotta cut one of them. Yeah, this might be a little miracle in the end. So this is Drew's favorite category. Which, which would be a better series? TV series or a better episodic? Drew, I'll let you kick off. I think you have to go Jurassic Park, because I want to know more about the Hammond Foundation that happens after this.

[: 01:12:48

[01:13:10] With Jurassic Park, at least, you know, Lost World was not good. Three was okay, but then Jurassic World was a pretty awesome movie. I loved Jurassic World. Fallen Kingdom was not as good, but still a solid movie. And I think the whole world is excited about the third Jurassic World film, so I gotta go [01:13:30] Jurassic Park.

[: 01:13:30

[01:13:48] But you could have taken that first movie and extrapolated it out over an entire season of television shows and still had something engaging and intriguing to watch. Like, the scientists who are completely oblivious to [01:14:00] this situation digging up fossils versus the science of Jurassic Park going into the depths of creating.

[: 01:14:06

[01:14:21] Like, Jaws was an incredible film, but to me it wraps up the whole story in one go. Like, I was satisfied. Jurassic Park, I constantly [01:14:30] want to know more. I agree with that, and as much as I want to go Jaws and give Jaws the win because it's my, it's my go to, the fact is that sharks exist. I mean, there's nothing nefarious about that.

[: 01:14:40

[01:15:01] And like you said, Jaws 1 is so self contained. You feel like at the end, like, we took care of the one rogue shark. We still have other sharks out there, but we're not worried about them because we took care of the one real bad one, so. I'm right, I'm right with you on that. Alright, so we have one question left and Jurassic Park has edged out a lead here.

[: 01:15:18

[01:15:37] I, I gotta go Jurassic Park on this, even though I'm a, I'm a Jaws fanboy. Again, for the same reason that Jurassic Park would make a great series, you get so much material with the scientific, scientific element of Jurassic Park. You can develop more dinosaurs, you know, there's this whole weird corporate element of keeping the park open.

[: 01:15:55

[01:16:14] I think the best start, it's, like I said, it's hard to exclude the follow ups. I think Jurassic Park has the best start to a franchise. Yeah, I agree for all the same reasons that I just said and you just said. But I think it's interesting to note that nobody in almost 50 [01:16:30] years has tried to remake Jaws, which I feel like is telling, because most classics have been, I mean you got Ghostbusters, you got Robocop, everybody's remaking the 80s classics, the 70s classics, like, so I think everybody's kind of scared to touch Jaws, because Jaws is Jaws, it's like remaking Godfather, you just There's some things that are just sacred and in the film, hallows, you know, the, the, it, yeah.

[: 01:16:55

[01:17:08] Because you can't do a CGI Jaws. It would be sacrilege. Yeah. Oh, I mean, I'm, I feel like I mostly answered this already, but yeah. Jurassic Park, because it did go on to be the better franchise and because there is just inherently more detail and intrigue involved in that series. With, you know, the scientists, the dinosaurs, the, uh, the [01:17:30] park itself, the Hammond Foundation, the paleontologists, whereas Jaws, there's no and here's the thing, there's nothing wrong with a story being cohesive in the capsule of one movie.

[: 01:17:40

[01:17:58] So yeah, easy, Jurassic Park. I am [01:18:00] wearing a Jurassic Park t shirt. It came out in 1993, I was five years old. And while I will never forget when I watched Jurassic Park for the first time. I also will never forget the time that I first saw Jaws. Full disclosure, I was at the mall today picking out a suit for a wedding that I have to go to this weekend.

[: 01:18:18

[01:18:36] So, that in and of itself speaks to just the massive nature of these movies. Kids got into marine biology because of Jaws. Kids got into paleontology because of Dinosaurs. I mean, these two movies changed the game. Jaws was the first accidental blockbuster. They stumbled into it, but merch and Everybody had lunchboxes and things spilled out of this film that nobody saw coming [01:19:00] Jurassic Park I would argue is the first intentional blockbuster I don't think you have Jurassic Park without Jaws.

[: 01:19:06

[01:19:28] Phil, what do you think? I mean, [01:19:30] it's obvious, but tell us why. As far as favorite movie? I think, this one's complicated for me, um, because I love different movies for different reasons. If I want to relax and watch a movie that I know I'm going to just thoroughly enjoy from top to bottom, that's going to be Jurassic Park.

[: 01:19:46

[01:20:06] Like, Jaws has a depth and a nuance to the storytelling that is hard to debate or replicate or best with one thing or another, whereas Jurassic Park has just a a weight and an excellence and a wow factor to it that is hard to replicate because since then who else has made a movie that intriguing about dinosaurs?

[: 01:20:29

[01:20:51] And, and, I watched the Meg, and I Sharknado. Yeah, well, I mean, I think that's supposed to be annoying. These shark movies, like, with the CGI, I don't know what it is, but I, [01:21:00] I want to, like, someone to create one, but I watched the Meg thinking, because I was interested, because the Meg is a historic shark, right?

[: 01:21:05

[01:21:19] Not only did they want to fire Steven Spielberg, he wanted to quit. You know, it was miserable filming that film, but how did we get the movie we got that changed cinema? And I remember as a kid, watching [01:21:30] Jaws and not wanting to take a bath. A BATH! I was like, I can't take a bath now. What if there's a shark in the bath?

[: 01:21:35

[01:21:51] How, how many speeches in movies do you remember like that? It's so memorable and we've seen so many great actors, so many great script writers come through since then, but that one [01:22:00] still is top five to me. Just watching him talk about that in the bottom of that boat. I'd go Jaws, but like you both said, this is a tight race.

[: 01:22:06

[01:22:28] Which movies we all personally prefer, [01:22:30] but I do want to give a shout out to Steven Spielberg. Like I said in my, my intro, to create the perfect adventure movie is not easy. And I think we're seeing that today. It's so hard just to give us a movie where we just feel like we're taking on a ride. Without the, you know, the, the political nuance, the philosophical nuance.

[: 01:22:45

[01:23:02] I can go back to them when I just want to be taken on a ride and these two movies do that. So, uh, what a great war score here. This is pure fun. Everyone was on top of the game. Uh, thank you for joining us, everyone. And uh, this is Kyle, Drew and Phil signing off and uh, we'll see you in episode five. Drew Phil and I want to thank you for hanging out with us on the movie wars podcast.

[: 01:23:22

[01:23:39] Thank you again for hanging out with Drew, Phil, and I, we love you. Have a great [01:24:00] week.