Flatliners (1990) with comedian Dr. Ben

Seth: 00:00:00

Foreign.

Kyle: 00:00:12

Ladies and gentlemen, welcome back to the Movie wars podcast. I'm Kyle.

Seth: 00:00:17

I'm Seth. And we've got Dr. Ben. Dr. Ben today. Say hello.

Dr. Ben: 00:00:21

Howdy, folks. Thanks for having me. Appreciate you.

Seth: 00:00:23

Absolutely. I just at the end of the episode noticed.

Dr. Ben: 00:00:25

Howdy.

Seth: 00:00:25

Your cowboy boots. I love it. I didn't notice that.

Dr. Ben: 00:00:28

We're in Nashville. We're in Nashville.

Seth: 00:00:29

We are.

Kyle: 00:00:29

He changed his scrubs for this. If you watched last week, it's a new week.

Speaker D: 00:00:33

Yeah, it's a new week.

Seth: 00:00:34

I'm wearing the exact same clothes. I. I never change clothes.

Speaker D: 00:00:38

Yeah.

Kyle: 00:00:38

I actually have five of these outfits.

Seth: 00:00:41

That's actually a fully different outfit, but the exact same thing.

Kyle: 00:00:44

So if you're tuning, we're talking about flatliners today. And here's how this story, this is how the show goes. We talk about the history of the film.

We go into randos, which are the most interesting things that we uncovered during research. The questions which are questions that I write to generate comedic content since we're comedians or serious discussion.

And then we finish out with what used to be kind of a meteor part of the show, the war card. We kind of do it rapid fire. We all give our final scores at the end of the show.

Seth: 00:01:07

Does that sound the war zone.

Kyle: 00:01:08

The war zone. We're trying to stick up with that war theme because I don't want to pay to have a graphic designer make a new logo.

Speaker E: 00:01:13

Yeah.

Kyle: 00:01:14

So we're going to figure out how to make this war thing work.

Seth: 00:01:16

It's happening.

Speaker D: 00:01:17

Yes.

Kyle: 00:01:18

Flatliners. Flatliners.

Seth: 00:01:21

1990. Joel Schumacher.

Kyle: 00:01:23

And we have Dr. Ben here, who's not only an up and coming hilarious comedian, but he's going to give us a medical perspective here as well.

Dr. Ben: 00:01:29

Yeah.

Seth: 00:01:29

So I don't know about Yalls. First time. Was this your first time seeing this movie? But you suggested I had seen it.

Dr. Ben: 00:01:35

A while ago, so it was good to rewatch.

Seth: 00:01:36

What was your first time watching this movie?

Dr. Ben: 00:01:39

Like?

Seth: 00:01:39

Like what introduced you to this movie? Because I have a very particular story about this.

Dr. Ben: 00:01:43

It was. Yeah, it would have been shortly after it came out. So.

Seth: 00:01:47

Okay. Theaters.

Dr. Ben: 00:01:50

No, it was probably vhs.

Seth: 00:01:53

Yes, Blockbuster.

Dr. Ben: 00:01:54

Vhs, right, exactly.

Speaker E: 00:01:56

Yeah.

Seth: 00:01:56

So first time I saw this was: 2013

Basically the way the class would work for those eight weeks is we'd walk in, he would give us a 30 minute lecture. We'd watch a movie that'd be like an hour and a half to two hours. One of the ones that we watched was crimes and misdemeanors. From Woody Allen.

We watched this and a few others, and then we would have another 30 minute discussion about the ethics of the movie that we just watched. So that's how I was introduced to this. I absolutely hated the movie at the time. I have come to view it a little bit more fondly.

I'm not going to say it's a good movie, but it is significantly better than I remembered it was for a couple of reasons, which we'll get into later.

Speaker D: 00:02:43

Yeah.

Seth: 00:02:44

But. Yeah. What did you, what were your, your overall thoughts of the movie? It's. It's absolutely wacky.

Dr. Ben: 00:02:50

I was kind of focused on now rewatching it. The medical inaccuracies.

Kyle: 00:02:54

Yeah, yeah.

Seth: 00:02:55

Which I was before the show, I was watching it and I thought it was fascinating that finally a medical drama got the V fib thing down where you're using it to stop the heartbeat, but then they, they brought it back to restart the heartbeat. I was like, ah, dang it, you lost me again.

Kyle: 00:03:10

Is that the thing? Is that a thing?

Dr. Ben: 00:03:12

Yeah. So the defibrillating. So the whole title of the movie, Flatliners. When you flatline, that's called asystole. Your heart has no rhythm.

And when that happens, we do not shock that. That's not a shockable rhythm. So V fib, ventricular fibrillation, or pulseless V tach. I don't want to get in the woods.

But those are rhythms where you shock the heart, bring it back. When they're in asystole, they do not have any rhythm.

You need to do cpr, chest compressions, and we give epinephrine, but there's not a place for shocking the heart.

Seth: 00:03:43

But I did notice at one point they were. I think it was when Kevin Bacon was under, they were pumping him with lidocaine. Is that a thing that you do to restart the heart?

Kyle: 00:03:53

Is that for pain?

Dr. Ben: 00:03:54

That would be actually probably more for anti arrhythmic. Also, when you have a funny rhythm, not necessarily for flat lining, what would be.

Seth: 00:04:01

What, what would be the effect of that? Like, if. So. So I have a irregular rhythm and you, you give me lidocaine. Like, what would, what would that do?

Dr. Ben: 00:04:09

That would hopefully restore it to a normal rhythm. There's a lot of different anti arrhythmics. They're called like, amiodarone or lidocaine.

Seth: 00:04:16

Okay. Would it do it by, like relaxing the area or like, how does that work? I'm just very curious about this.

Dr. Ben: 00:04:21

Well, you kind of get in the woods with like action potentials. And stuff. And sodium and potassium. And that's why when you give a potassium rich solution, it can stop the heart because it messes with the.

The what's called action potential. And your heart, the muscles contracting so it goes into a funky rhythm. But that would be the idea behind like an anti rhythmic.

Kyle: 00:04:40

So when do you introduce cocaine? Lidocaine's not working right.

Dr. Ben: 00:04:44

Where's the cocaine?

Speaker D: 00:04:45

Yeah, yeah.

Dr. Ben: 00:04:47

Hey, if your heart's not beating, we'll throw anything.

Speaker D: 00:04:49

Yeah.

Dr. Ben: 00:04:49

Any canes?

Kyle: 00:04:50

Stuff in his nose.

Dr. Ben: 00:04:51

Sugar cane, cocaine, candy canes.

Speaker D: 00:04:54

Yeah.

Kyle: 00:04:55

Michael Kane.

Dr. Ben: 00:04:56

Michael Kane. Yeah.

Kyle: 00:04:58

Just shove Michael Caine in the room. That'll also. When in medical school, do they teach you to scream? Damn it. You're not gonna die on me today.

Dr. Ben: 00:05:05

Yeah, it's not, it's not your time.

Kyle: 00:05:07

Well, when's that class? Third year, fourth year.

Dr. Ben: 00:05:10

Right. And I don't know what year these medical students were, but yeah, they were not the usual medical students that we had in our.

Speaker D: 00:05:17

Yeah.

Kyle: 00:05:17

Had a lot of free time.

Seth: 00:05:18

Yeah, a lot of free time. And what a weird looking hospital school.

Speaker D: 00:05:22

Yeah.

Kyle: 00:05:22

Shout out Loyola.

Seth: 00:05:24

Oh, is that, is that where this was shot?

Kyle: 00:05:25

Yeah, a lot. So a lot of resets and there's a rando for this, but yeah, Loyola University in Chicago.

Dr. Ben: 00:05:29

But it kind of had like a Hogwarts type feel with.

Seth: 00:05:32

Yeah. Legitimately like. Yeah. In the 80s.

Kyle: 00:05:35

where an organ would be in an: 1800

Dr. Ben: 00:05:42

Medical school.

Kyle: 00:05:43

Horrible lighting. Let's get into the history here. Flatliners. It became, became a.

It was a spec script by Peter Felardi and he was convinced that there was this story that he wanted to write because a friend of his had a near death experience. And so he became obsessed with it. And so originally the story of. The setting of the story was Boston.

And he became obsessed with this idea of doctors trying to figure out how to come back from life or come back from death. And so it turns out too that Joel Schumacher kind of has a weird penchant for death and is obsessed with it, which is why he wanted to do the script.

And so there was a little bit of controversy because originally producer Scott Ruden bought it for $400,000 and he outbid his own studio for Columbia Pictures. Columbia was pissed because he was still under contract there, so they had to buy the property back from him, but they still let him produce.

So we hate you, but you can still produce.

Dr. Ben: 00:06:35

Right.

Kyle: 00:06:36

But then this is amazing too. Michael Douglas came in and he acted as an executive producer. I saw that no Stranger won the Oscar for, you know, One Flew over the Cuckoo's Nest.

That was kind of his early. Four people actually don't realize this, but before he was even a big time actor, he was mostly known as a producer.

Seth: 00:06:52

I mean, when you come. When you come from a family like Kirk Douglas, then. Yeah, I can. I can see you would already be involved outside of acting.

Dr. Ben: 00:06:59

Right.

Kyle: 00:06:59

No Nepo babies here. Nothing to look at here. Luckily, he's talented, handsome and good, you know.

Dr. Ben: 00:07:05

Right.

Kyle: 00:07:05

All that. I mean, it worked in his meritocracy.

Seth: 00:07:07

It would be fun to go over the old 20,000 leagues under the Sea at some point.

Speaker D: 00:07:10

Yeah.

Seth: 00:07:11

With Kirk Douglas.

Speaker D: 00:07:11

Yeah.

Kyle: 00:07:12

That's a good movie.

Speaker E: 00:07:12

Yeah.

Kyle: 00:07:13

With the squid, the giant squid, the big arms. I haven't watched it in a long time. I wonder how it would hold up.

Seth: 00:07:19

As probably as good as a: 1950

Kyle: 00:07:22

With a giant squid. Shout out to that squid.

Speaker E: 00:07:25

Yeah.

Kyle: 00:07:26

In. Joel Schumacher was. He was kind of hot. He was coming off one of my top 50 movies of all time. Lost Boys. It's kind of weird.

Yeah, it's like hyper 80s, you know. And is it. Kiefer Sutherland worked with him on that movie as well. So if you haven't watched it, it's one of the best. Van.

I think it's the best vampire movie of all time. That's not serious. That's not like Francis Ford Coppola's Brom, you know, Bram Stoker.

Seth: 00:07:45

Or Nosferatu.

Kyle: 00:07:46

Or Nosferatu. Right. This is more like 80s glamour. Again, back with the cocaine. Definitely some cocaine filmmaking on that. But yeah. And.

And they ended up chasing the setting from Boston. He wanted to shift it to Chicago because of the architecture.

Some of the original names that were attached to this Val Kilmer and Nicole Kidman were going to be the leads.

Seth: 00:08:05

That tracks. That was.

That was just early enough in Nicole Kidman's career that I think she could have actually, I think she could have pulled it off a little bit better than Julia Roberts did, which she didn't do a bad job. But. Yeah, we'll get into.

Dr. Ben: 00:08:16

I agree.

Seth: 00:08:17

We were talking before the episode got started, like, it's so hard to feel for any of these characters. And weirdly, it's like, as much as I love Julia Roberts, I didn't ever feel for her character at all.

And yeah, I think Nicole Kidman probably could have done a better job with that.

Speaker D: 00:08:32

Yeah.

Seth: 00:08:32

Who's Val Kilmer gonna play? Was he gonna be Kevin Bacon?

Kyle: 00:08:34

He was gonna be Kiefer Sutherland's character.

Seth: 00:08:36

Oh, okay.

Speaker E: 00:08:37

Okay, Okay.

Seth: 00:08:37

I could see that. That worked.

Speaker D: 00:08:39

Yeah.

Kyle: 00:08:39

I spent most of my time hoping these characters didn't wake up.

Speaker E: 00:08:42

Yeah.

Kyle: 00:08:43

And I was kind of like, if we could make this movie 30 minutes where they keep just dying.

Speaker E: 00:08:48

Yeah.

Kyle: 00:08:48

And they just die off. And we end this movie at 30 minutes and Oliver Platts like.

Dr. Ben: 00:08:52

Oh.

Kyle: 00:08:54

Because I. It's so weird because I like so many of the actors here. I don't care for William Baldwin. I don't care for most Baldwins. Okay.

Seth: 00:09:03

Yeah, he was okay.

Kyle: 00:09:04

He was okay. But I love Julia Roberts.

Speaker E: 00:09:06

Yeah.

Kyle: 00:09:07

She's one of my favorite actresses. I love Kiefer Sutherland in Lost Boys.

Speaker E: 00:09:09

Yeah.

Kyle: 00:09:10

He's got the same demeanor in Lost Boys. It worked then. It didn't really work in this one.

Speaker E: 00:09:14

Yeah.

Kyle: 00:09:15

And a lot of what this movie is to me, this movie came out in 90, but it was filmed in 89.

Speaker E: 00:09:19

Yeah.

Kyle: 00:09:20

So this gets. It's technically a 90s movie, but it very much feels so 80s.

Seth: 00:09:26

This goes with Judge Dredd for me. And It's a. An 80s movie filmed with 90s cameras.

Kyle: 00:09:34

Yes.

Seth: 00:09:34

And it, like, it has the look of a 90s film with the entire feel and production scale of an 80s film.

Speaker D: 00:09:42

Yeah.

Seth: 00:09:42

It's so weird.

Dr. Ben: 00:09:43

Kiefer Sutherland even joked that they could have called it Saint Elmo's funeral.

Speaker D: 00:09:48

Yeah.

Dr. Ben: 00:09:48

Or the Breakfast Club dies. That 80s all star cast kind of thing.

Speaker E: 00:09:56

Yeah.

Seth: 00:09:56

Yeah. Also, I gotta say, this is probably the best Kevin Bacon's hair has ever looked.

Speaker D: 00:10:01

Yeah.

Seth: 00:10:01

This. That was like a straight out l' Oreal commercial. Just the entire time looking at his hair.

Dr. Ben: 00:10:07

His hair should have won an Oscar for best supporting hair.

Speaker E: 00:10:10

Yes.

Kyle: 00:10:11

Yeah, he's had some good hair. Did you see his mustache in that show City on a Hill?

Speaker E: 00:10:15

I did. Yeah.

Kyle: 00:10:16

Really good show. Yeah, he's got a great mustache.

Speaker E: 00:10:18

Yeah.

Kyle: 00:10:19

Stir of Echoes. Remember that Kevin Bacon movie, Serve Echoes? Kind of a psychological horror movie. That was an interesting movie.

Seth: 00:10:24

Interesting.

Kyle: 00:10:25

I love Kevin Bacon. I eat lots of bacon. I like watching Kevin Bacon. Anything bacon related? I'm into bacon bits.

Speaker E: 00:10:31

Yeah.

Speaker D: 00:10:31

Yeah.

Kyle: 00:10:32

It's bacon time. Cocaine.

Dr. Ben: 00:10:33

Cocaine. I like how you can associate just about anybody to Kevin Bacon.

Seth: 00:10:37

Yes.

Dr. Ben: 00:10:38

How many degrees of separation?

Seth: 00:10:40

I have a Kevin Bacon number of either four or five.

Dr. Ben: 00:10:43

Wow.

Kyle: 00:10:44

I don't know. This. What is this?

Seth: 00:10:45

Oh, yeah. So with actors, you. Every single actor has a Kevin bacon.

Dr. Ben: 00:10:51

Association within 6 degrees of separation from Kevin Bacon.

Kyle: 00:10:55

Oh, I have heard about this. But I've never understood it.

Speaker E: 00:10:57

Yeah.

Seth: 00:10:57

Mine is either five or six. I can't.

Speaker D: 00:10:59

Wow.

Kyle: 00:11:00

Yeah. Okay, so I need to figure this out.

Dr. Ben: 00:11:02

You could. Yeah, yeah.

Seth: 00:11:04

Have an association with Kevin Bacon and get it right.

But I was in a movie with a friend of mine who was an extra in a movie with George Clooney, and then I think there was one more link in between George Clooney and Kevin Bacon. So, yeah, I think I was at five.

Dr. Ben: 00:11:18

Oh, that's cool.

Speaker E: 00:11:18

Yeah.

Kyle: 00:11:19

I thought for years when I was a kid, I thought Christian. Christian Slater and Kevin Bacon were the same person.

Dr. Ben: 00:11:24

I can see that. I can see it.

Speaker D: 00:11:26

Yeah.

Kyle: 00:11:26

Like gleaming. Gleaming the cube. Do you guys remember that skateboarding movie from the 80s?

I loved that movie, and it was Christian Slater, but I always just kind of. Every time I saw Kevin Bacon, I'm like, man, Christian Slater's doing a ton of.

Seth: 00:11:36

Oh, that's great.

Kyle: 00:11:36

He's in everything.

Speaker E: 00:11:37

Yeah.

Kyle: 00:11:37

I was like, oh, that's. That's a different. A different guy.

Dr. Ben: 00:11:40

I can. I can see it. I get confused for Dr. Ken. So.

Kyle: 00:11:44

Oh, doctor.

Dr. Ben: 00:11:45

Both Korean doctors. Comedians. No, I'm just joking.

Kyle: 00:11:48

Oh.

Speaker D: 00:11:49

I was like.

Kyle: 00:11:49

I was like, are you kidding me right now?

Dr. Ben: 00:11:51

But we do have a lot of similarities. We're both from Michigan. We both moved to North Carolina. Both Korean, both doctors Ken and Ben. So he loves to point that out to him.

Speaker E: 00:11:59

Yeah.

Seth: 00:11:59

We need to get you all together so you can come up.

Dr. Ben: 00:12:01

We can collab. Podcast Dr. Ken Less club.

Speaker E: 00:12:04

Yeah.

Speaker D: 00:12:04

Yeah.

Kyle: 00:12:05

Loves the lidocaine.

Seth: 00:12:06

Ken and Ben, M.D.

Dr. Ben: 00:12:08

Paradox. We'll call it Paradox.

Seth: 00:12:10

There you go.

Kyle: 00:12:12

And if you are suffering from. If you've died and you're looking for a podcast on your way. On your way to wherever you're going, please comment. If it's heaven, if it's Hades, if.

Seth: 00:12:25

It'S being confronted by the kid you bullied to death.

Speaker D: 00:12:27

Yep.

Kyle: 00:12:28

You need a podcast, and it's Movie Wars. Check it out. Send it to your friends. Send it to your dead friends. Print off a picture of our logo and put it on the gravestone.

Speaker E: 00:12:36

There you go.

Dr. Ben: 00:12:37

You could have a medium, perhaps. Put comments. Yeah, yeah, comment section.

Kyle: 00:12:42

Mediums are. They needed a medium in this movie so bad. Speaking of that, I kind of, like, thought, like, forever that this was a Stephen King movie.

I confused white people, but I also confused bad movies with Stephen King scripts.

Speaker E: 00:12:54

Yeah.

Kyle: 00:12:55

Because like, Tommyknockers, that straight to TV Stephen King thing. I always kind of thought flatliners and Tommyknockers were the same thing.

Seth: 00:13:00

That's fair. I Feel like Stephen King has like a 25% track record where like 25% of the movies made from his stuff are amazing.

The rest of it are just absolute garbage.

Kyle: 00:13:09

When you write five, and I've read probably 40 Stephen King books.

Seth: 00:13:12

Geez.

Kyle: 00:13:13

When you write 500 or whatever he's written, and you actually even had a different name and just wrote under that for a while, you actually create your own tropes. And he suffers from his own tropes. And that is that telekinesis. Somebody's got to have telekinesis. And ancient evil entities like it.

You know, even the Shining kind of have that.

Speaker D: 00:13:34

Yes.

Kyle: 00:13:35

And he just does it over and over again. And I always, I used to, you know, talk about this on the podcast, but I'm like, I'm surprised Cujo didn't have telekinesis.

You know, he's just like, he gets a quarter through the movie. He's like, I haven't given anybody telekinesis yet. Somebody's got to have it. And this movie felt like it could have been a bad Stephen King book.

Dr. Ben: 00:13:51

Recurring themes, yes. Light motif.

Seth: 00:13:53

It's such a good, like, philosophical idea for a movie. But we were talking about this earlier. I think this should have been a miniseries. Yeah, I. I don't think this should have been a two hour movie.

I think this should have taken five to seven hours to really get in depth with each of the characters. It probably could have taken two episodes before they even tried putting each other under. Like the first time.

Dr. Ben: 00:14:17

Each character could have an episode of their backstory legitimately.

Seth: 00:14:20

Like, I just, I needed more reasons to actually care about any of these people. But from the very first moment of the movie, it's just. It's so chaotic. It moves so quickly. You really have no idea what's going on or who anyone is.

And it took me like until halfway through the movie to really understand who everyone was. And even then I felt like it was weirdly rushed.

Speaker D: 00:14:44

Yeah, yeah.

Dr. Ben: 00:14:45

None of them weren't attached to him yet.

Seth: 00:14:47

No, not at all. I wasn't attached to him by the end. The only one I cared about was Kevin Bacon at the end.

And that's because he actually, like, tried to go and do a good thing.

Speaker D: 00:14:54

Yeah.

Kyle: 00:14:54

Big part of it was for me was the. I was really excited about the premise, but the hallucinations they have after death are not interesting to me.

Seth: 00:15:03

s and: 2000

Speaker D: 00:15:12

Yeah.

Seth: 00:15:12

This was just so overly obvious that it didn't even feel like an artistic decision. It just felt like you didn't have any other way to do it.

Speaker D: 00:15:19

Yeah.

Dr. Ben: 00:15:19

It was like a Christmas carol with stethoscopes. You're getting haunted by your past. Sims.

Kyle: 00:15:24

The key for Sutherland falling out of the tree scene was some of the most malpractice I've seen. You've got a big time actor that falling out of the tree. He's obviously not really falling and he's like swimming in midair. I'm like.

It was almost like they forwent acting. It's like we're gonna forego any acting in the hallucination scenes.

Speaker E: 00:15:41

Yeah.

Kyle: 00:15:41

d. I know he's a kid actor in: 1990

Speaker E: 00:15:50

Yeah.

Kyle: 00:15:50

That. That was. All the kids in those hallucinations were horrible.

Speaker E: 00:15:54

Yeah.

Kyle: 00:15:54

It took me out of it and.

Seth: 00:15:56

I Especially the little girl when she's sitting there like calling him every possible slur. Both PG and R rated Slurpee.

Speaker E: 00:16:03

Slur.

Seth: 00:16:04

Yes, she could call him. I was such a. Weirdly like. I almost felt like I was having an out of body experience watching this movie again.

Dr. Ben: 00:16:12

I had flashbacks of being on stage at my comedy show.

Seth: 00:16:15

There you go.

Dr. Ben: 00:16:15

Heckling.

Speaker D: 00:16:17

Yeah.

Kyle: 00:16:17

It is kind of an. You could actually say it's a good metaphor for bombing because you. After you bomb you definitely if you like got five minutes left.

Dr. Ben: 00:16:23

Yeah.

Kyle: 00:16:24

And they haven't laughed yet. It's got. That's how this movie feels. Flatliners is a good. That's about all it's good for.

Seth: 00:16:29

You ever bombed for 18 minutes straight. It is horrible.

Kyle: 00:16:32

It's great. You know, hey, where are you from?

Dr. Ben: 00:16:35

Right. But yeah, the last time I had a. This is a little aside, but someone in the crowd say, good thing you didn't go into ob. Your delivery is terrible.

I was getting like flashbacks of getting that. That girl was giving me those vibes of the heckling.

Speaker E: 00:16:48

Yeah.

Dr. Ben: 00:16:49

Hope you're a better surgeon than you are comedian.

Kyle: 00:16:51

Oh, man. Oh, opening yourself up.

Speaker E: 00:16:54

Yeah.

Kyle: 00:16:54

A lot of medical jokes coming from.

Dr. Ben: 00:16:56

I hope your scalpel's sharper than your punch lines. But anyway, I digress.

Kyle: 00:17:00

I can one. I can one up you. If you ever want to feel better about your. Your heckles. I did a bit about. At Waffle House. It was a. There was a club.

It was like a hookah dance lounge in the middle of downtown Nashville. And remember the Waffle House shooter?

Speaker E: 00:17:15

Yeah.

Kyle: 00:17:15

I did a bit about how when they caught him, I was like, you, you want to be really careful about where you kill people because they're going to just call you that killer. And he was the Waffle House killer. So you want to pick a Nordstrom rack or something really nice like, oh, the Nordstrom Rat killer.

Some girl yells at me from the crowd, says, my friend got kill that Waffle House shooting. So I, I. And as a comedian, I was thinking, oh, I got so many good comebacks for that. But I actually was like, okay, thank you.

It was the one time I didn't know how to handle a heckler.

Dr. Ben: 00:17:44

Yeah.

Kyle: 00:17:45

So if you ever want to feel bad about it.

Dr. Ben: 00:17:46

And now we have a McDonald's killer.

Kyle: 00:17:48

Oh, I know. Pick nicer places. If you want to start a career.

Seth: 00:17:51

As a serial killer, be the Gucci killer.

Kyle: 00:17:54

Gucci, yes. Vegas. Something better than waffle.

Seth: 00:17:56

The Ralph Lauren killer.

Speaker D: 00:17:58

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Dr. Ben: 00:17:59

I like it.

Kyle: 00:17:59

Low hanging fruit heckles.

Seth: 00:18:02

Ladies and gentlemen, the fruit of the Loom killer. Come on, guys.

Kyle: 00:18:04

Yes.

Speaker D: 00:18:05

Yeah.

Kyle: 00:18:05

If you've never done stand up flatliners is a good way to, to if you want to know what bombing feels like.

Seth: 00:18:10

Yeah, right.

Kyle: 00:18:12

Rando.

Dr. Ben: 00:18:13

Rando Rendos.

Kyle: 00:18:15

So I guess if you want to say there's a good thing about this movie, it is what you said that they did get some of the medical terminology at least within. They started to, they started to.

Seth: 00:18:24

And they just said nope.

Kyle: 00:18:26

But they had a medical technical advisor named Roof. Ruth F. Elk Ekholm. Do you know that person?

Dr. Ben: 00:18:32

No. Are they a doctor or what's a medical advisor?

Kyle: 00:18:34

It's a medical advisor.

This could very much just knowing Hollywood, this could be a person that pretended to be a really good doctor on a movie once and they just kept him around.

Dr. Ben: 00:18:42

Yeah.

Seth: 00:18:43

They were like, you sound like, you.

Kyle: 00:18:44

Know, he's like a Dr. Phil type. But he tutored everybody on proper medical procedures for the scene. So I guess he probably had some, some medical education.

And he taught them how to properly flatline. He taught them about EKGs, EEG machines signaling cardiac and brain death respectively.

Seth: 00:19:01

I just like to imagine that him teaching them to properly flatline. He was actually like taking them through the whole process. Like shocking.

Dr. Ben: 00:19:08

No. Try it again. That's improper flatlining.

Seth: 00:19:11

No, here and here.

Speaker D: 00:19:14

Yeah.

Kyle: 00:19:14

And he had, he so. And also because the writer was obsessed with it, he made sure that everybody was aware.

And he brought in studies and stories of people of what they've really said. They experience a near death or, or when they die and come back.

Seth: 00:19:25

What a terrible movie to put so much effort into.

Kyle: 00:19:27

I know, I know.

Dr. Ben: 00:19:29

But there's a lot of anecdotes of near death experiences. Oh yeah.

Kyle: 00:19:33

And one thing that's interesting that he injected is that based on his research and maybe you, I don't know if you've encountered this, this seems like some crazy pseudoscience, but people that, that have near death experiences often say they see tunnel of light and hear friendly voices.

Speaker E: 00:19:47

Yeah.

Kyle: 00:19:47

But people that attempted suicide often remember troubled, emotional, painful, near death experiences.

Speaker E: 00:19:53

Hmm.

Kyle: 00:19:54

Specific to suicide. I don't know.

Dr. Ben: 00:19:56

Interesting.

Kyle: 00:19:57

But he wanted to inject that into the movie.

Seth: 00:19:59

I mean, so.

And I don't know how much you know about this, but like I've, I've heard the theories, I've heard like, like I know your, your brain release is supposed to release like a bunch of DMT right as you're about to die.

Speaker D: 00:20:12

Yeah.

Seth: 00:20:12

And I've always wondered if, like if that's happening, if your brain is just flooding itself with all these chemicals that, that kind of do make it hallucinate, how much would that be influenced based on what is happening leading up to that moment?

Dr. Ben: 00:20:27

Right.

Seth: 00:20:27

Because I have done some hallucinogenics, people. I have done some mushrooms.

And something that, that everyone always says when you're gonna take mushrooms is the 20 minutes before and the 20 minutes right after you take them is really what's going to determine the vibe of the trip that you take.

Speaker D: 00:20:43

Oh.

Seth: 00:20:43

And so if you're anxious and if you're, you're in a bad mood in that 20 minutes leading up to it, it's probably not going to go away when you take them and it's probably going to put you into what would be a bad trip.

Kyle: 00:20:54

Interesting.

Seth: 00:20:55

So that's where I'm like that, that kind of almost lends itself to that idea of the people who just died naturally and were surrounded by loved ones, saw, you know, a light and then, and then things like felt, felt warm feelings. But if you're in an already troubled state and your brain releases all that dmt, like. Yeah, I could easily see that react to it.

That's so interesting.

Speaker D: 00:21:17

Yeah.

Dr. Ben: 00:21:17

I think it'd be highly individualized.

Speaker E: 00:21:19

Yeah.

Seth: 00:21:19

100%.

Dr. Ben: 00:21:20

Not everyone having the same experience.

Speaker E: 00:21:22

Yeah.

Seth: 00:21:22

Which I guess does kind of lend it to this idea of as they all flatline, they all have these crazy different experiences.

Kyle: 00:21:30

Mine would be frantic and crazy.

Speaker D: 00:21:32

Yeah.

Dr. Ben: 00:21:33

With a house with four kids.

Speaker D: 00:21:34

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Kyle: 00:21:36

I, when I drink four cups of coffee, sometimes I get.

Speaker D: 00:21:39

Yeah.

Kyle: 00:21:39

Just absolute wild hallucinations. This is kind of a crazy background thing that was happening.

Chicago up until this point wasn't really considered, and I didn't really realize this until my research, but people didn't make a lot of movies in Chicago. Like, it wasn't considered, like a major era, but our major place to film. But Mayor Richard Daly was making a push to make Chicago a filmmaking hub.

And it started with this movie. This movie helped trigger Chicago moviemaking.

Seth: 00:22:05

Well, there's something good. I guess we wouldn't have gotten the Dark Knight if we hadn't gotten this.

Speaker D: 00:22:09

Yeah.

Kyle: 00:22:09

It's kind of interesting because Chicago to me seems like such a low hanging fruit place to make movies.

Seth: 00:22:14

I mean, but you have to think about how it was back in the 90s.

Kyle: 00:22:16

That's true.

Seth: 00:22:17

I mean, as. As bad as, like Southside is today. Back in the 80s and 90s, like, oh, my goodness.

Speaker D: 00:22:22

Right.

Seth: 00:22:22

It was a hub of crime.

Dr. Ben: 00:22:23

And why didn't they want to do it in Boston? Wasn't it supposed to be Boston originally?

Kyle: 00:22:27

There was just. Yeah, there was like, Joel Schumacher just had a pension for Chicago. He just didn't think Boston was going to be a good setting for it.

Seth: 00:22:33

I think, honestly, weirdly, I think it would have been better.

Speaker D: 00:22:36

Yeah.

Seth: 00:22:36

I think this should have been somewhat of like a Northeastern kind of story.

Speaker D: 00:22:40

Yeah.

Kyle: 00:22:40

Boston is really reserved for mob films, I guess.

Seth: 00:22:44

But that's more.

Kyle: 00:22:44

I'm saying that as a negative thing. Like, it's like, it's. There's more to boss. Like, Boston's one of my favorite cities. Like, there's more to it than, like.

Seth: 00:22:50

Just moved to Boston.

Kyle: 00:22:51

Did he?

Speaker E: 00:22:52

Yeah.

Speaker D: 00:22:52

Oh, yeah.

Kyle: 00:22:52

Shout out to Peyton.

Speaker E: 00:22:53

Yeah.

Kyle: 00:22:54

My favorite brother of Seth's. Because he's the only I've met.

Speaker E: 00:22:56

Yeah.

Seth: 00:22:56

The one that he. He completely, like, dragged through the mud a few weeks ago.

Kyle: 00:23:01

I didn't know him then. I love you.

Seth: 00:23:03

He listens to the episode and immediately texts me and goes, screw Kyle now.

Kyle: 00:23:08

I love you, Peyton. I'll make it up to you in so many ways. Ways that you can't even imagine. Ways that they haven't even written about in books.

Seth: 00:23:15

Ways that only a father of four can do.

Kyle: 00:23:17

I will make it up to you. I'll get you a nice Christmas gift. And this is classified as a Brat Pack movie. It's kind of interesting.

Brat Pack was a specific term given to these young ensemble cast movies.

Seth: 00:23:31

Okay.

Kyle: 00:23:31

St. Elmo's Fire, you know, and stuff like that. And so.

Speaker D: 00:23:34

Yeah.

Kyle: 00:23:34

But there was this joke where Joel Schumacher came out. I Don't know if it was Sutherland or.

Speaker D: 00:23:39

Yeah.

Kyle: 00:23:39

Or Schumacher said.

Speaker D: 00:23:40

Yeah.

Kyle: 00:23:41

We're gonna either call it Breakfast Club Dies or St. Elmo's Funeral.

Dr. Ben: 00:23:44

Right.

Seth: 00:23:44

So that would have been so funny.

Kyle: 00:23:46

But this Brat Pack thing was interesting, man. Like they. They did have this weird Trend in the 80s and going into the 90s where they had these young ensembles of up and coming actors.

Speaker E: 00:23:53

Yeah.

Kyle: 00:23:54

So.

Dr. Ben: 00:23:55

And I'll see Emilio Estevez come out and get flatlined or something.

Speaker D: 00:23:59

Yeah.

Kyle: 00:24:00

I'm going to come out of the limb and say I don't like any of them. I haven't seen a Brat Pack movie that I didn't like Breakfast Club. I didn't like St. Elmo's Fire. I didn't like any of those movies.

Seth: 00:24:08

I actually haven't seen any of those.

Kyle: 00:24:09

So I wouldn't know the best thing about Sixteen Candles.

Speaker D: 00:24:12

Yeah.

Kyle: 00:24:13

Longer dunk.

Seth: 00:24:14

I have a script that is supposed to take those kinds of movies and kind of flip it because I feel like all those 80s movies have weirdly, unnaturally happy endings, despite all the terrible choices everybody's made.

Speaker E: 00:24:28

And.

Seth: 00:24:28

Yeah, it's actually. That's that. That giant squid poster right there in the background. For those of you watching on video, that's the play that this script is based on.

Kyle: 00:24:35

Oh, wow.

Seth: 00:24:36

And it takes a lot of those 80s themes and flips it into a real world scenario where you watch all these people think they're happy at the end of a long series of bad decisions, but you as the audience just feel very uncomfortable with it.

Speaker D: 00:24:47

Oh.

Seth: 00:24:47

Because I feel like that's already how most people feel watching those movies now. They're like, oh, what? You're.

Speaker E: 00:24:53

You.

Seth: 00:24:53

No, don't. Yeah, that's how I thought at the end of this. It's like they all did something colossally stupid.

Speaker D: 00:25:01

Yeah.

Seth: 00:25:01

And now they're all happy and good at the end of it.

Kyle: 00:25:03

That's crazy.

Seth: 00:25:04

It's so bad.

Dr. Ben: 00:25:05

Yeah, I can see that. Brat Pack type.

Speaker D: 00:25:08

Yeah.

Dr. Ben: 00:25:08

It was like the Tiger Beat magazine.

Speaker E: 00:25:11

Yeah.

Seth: 00:25:11

I didn't know that was the term for it. I like that. Yeah, It's a good term.

Kyle: 00:25:14

My problem is, is that they are always older than they are depicting.

Dr. Ben: 00:25:18

Right?

Speaker E: 00:25:19

Yeah.

Kyle: 00:25:19

The actors are always older than like Kevin Bacon, I guess is like his character is supposed to be in his 30s in this movie, is what they said. I didn't research. I guess he was supposed to be older than everyone else. He was supposed to be 32. They never make it explicit.

Seth: 00:25:30

He looks so much younger than Keith Sutherland.

Speaker D: 00:25:32

Yeah.

Kyle: 00:25:32

He's got that Kevin Bacon factor.

Dr. Ben: 00:25:34

And in medical school, there were some non traditional students that had other careers. But typically, if you went to medical school right after undergrad, you'd be around 22.

Speaker E: 00:25:43

Yeah.

Speaker D: 00:25:44

Yeah.

Kyle: 00:25:44

So any hazing in medical school?

Dr. Ben: 00:25:48

Not that I can speak of.

Kyle: 00:25:49

But like Vaseline on the scalpel.

Dr. Ben: 00:25:52

Right?

Kyle: 00:25:52

Like, oh, he dropped it.

Dr. Ben: 00:25:54

Or flatlining.

Speaker E: 00:25:55

Yeah.

Seth: 00:25:57

Someone just walks up to you with a portable defibrillator.

Speaker D: 00:26:00

Yeah.

Dr. Ben: 00:26:01

Jumps out at you.

Kyle: 00:26:02

Jello shots before the surgery.

Dr. Ben: 00:26:03

Right.

Speaker D: 00:26:04

Yeah.

Kyle: 00:26:04

Wearing the cadaver skin around. Yeah, I can see it.

Seth: 00:26:08

There we go.

Speaker D: 00:26:09

Yeah.

Dr. Ben: 00:26:09

That's also supposed to be esoteric. You're not supposed to know about that, but.

Speaker D: 00:26:12

Oh, yeah.

Kyle: 00:26:12

Oh, I know. I know. Doctors.

Speaker D: 00:26:14

Yeah.

Kyle: 00:26:14

I know.

Seth: 00:26:15

This is the end of Movie Wars.

Kyle: 00:26:16

Yes. Yes.

Speaker D: 00:26:18

Yeah.

Seth: 00:26:18

Kyle mysteriously died two weeks ago.

Speaker D: 00:26:20

Yeah.

Dr. Ben: 00:26:22

At a Waffle House.

Speaker D: 00:26:22

Yeah.

Kyle: 00:26:23

And we buried it. We buried him in a cadaver skin.

Dr. Ben: 00:26:27

Medical students will be studying him now.

Speaker D: 00:26:29

Yes. Yes.

Kyle: 00:26:30

They're not gonna like what they see. They're gonna see an Oz Good slaughters they're gonna put in a museum.

Seth: 00:26:34

I think they're gonna love what they see.

Kyle: 00:26:36

Oh, they're gonna love that big O that. What is it? Calcification.

Dr. Ben: 00:26:39

Right. The tibial tubercle.

Speaker D: 00:26:41

Yeah.

Kyle: 00:26:41

I gotta get that thing fixed. But they say there's not really a surgery for it, so.

Dr. Ben: 00:26:46

Have you seen my tibial tubercle is huge.

Speaker D: 00:26:48

Yeah.

Dr. Ben: 00:26:48

Nobody has a tubercle bigger than mine.

Kyle: 00:26:50

Yeah, it's the biggest.

Seth: 00:26:51

I've been sitting next to you for 10 months and have never once noticed this until this.

Kyle: 00:26:55

Like you that you mentioned that it's huge. Look at that. For those on the camera, look at it. That's not supposed to be there. I thought that was my patella for a long time because it's so big.

But this is your patella. This is not supposed to be here. My doctor finally goes, holy smokes. I'm like, what? You don't want to hear that.

Dr. Ben: 00:27:12

You don't hear your doctor saying holy smoke.

Speaker D: 00:27:13

Yeah.

Dr. Ben: 00:27:13

Or oops, yeah.

Kyle: 00:27:15

Followed by there's nothing we can do about it besides give you pills.

Speaker E: 00:27:17

Yeah.

Kyle: 00:27:18

So.

Dr. Ben: 00:27:18

But you do like hearing that's the biggest one he's ever seen.

Speaker D: 00:27:20

Yeah.

Kyle: 00:27:21

He says that to all the girls.

Speaker E: 00:27:22

Yeah.

Kyle: 00:27:23

They're all special. The question, question.

Dr. Ben: 00:27:27

The question.

Seth: 00:27:28

There we go.

Kyle: 00:27:29

Who did Life After Death Better flatliners or the Sixth Sense?

Seth: 00:27:33

I still haven't seen the six, but it got ruined for me, so I don't feel like I'd enjoy it at this point.

Speaker D: 00:27:38

Yeah.

Seth: 00:27:38

Because.

Speaker E: 00:27:39

Yeah.

Seth: 00:27:39

I feel like half the battle of that movie was Like. But I'm going to. Clearly, it's way more in the social zeitgeist than flatliners.

Speaker D: 00:27:47

Yeah.

Seth: 00:27:47

Ever been. So I'm gonna have to give it to Sixth Sense. Just out of respect.

Speaker D: 00:27:51

Yeah.

Kyle: 00:27:52

What do you think?

Dr. Ben: 00:27:53

Sixth Sense after death in the flatliners, which we might get into later, was definitely not realistic and believable. So, yeah. They're like brain dead for sometimes up to 10 minutes, 12 minutes.

And then they're coming back and debating philosophy and 20 minutes later.

Seth: 00:28:10

Well, the 12 minutes was at the end. That was the very. I thought the longest before that was.

Dr. Ben: 00:28:15

Yeah, they were building up to it.

Speaker E: 00:28:17

Yeah.

Speaker D: 00:28:18

Yeah.

Dr. Ben: 00:28:18

So you'll start getting anoxia or brain deaths. About four minutes or so.

Seth: 00:28:23

Oh, I was for eight minutes.

Dr. Ben: 00:28:25

Probably about four to six.

Seth: 00:28:26

Okay.

Dr. Ben: 00:28:26

And then if you're after that, you're not up walking around and debating philosophy, you're probably in the ICU on a ventilator and with some deficits.

Seth: 00:28:35

Or having sex with Julia Roberts.

Speaker D: 00:28:37

Yeah.

Dr. Ben: 00:28:38

Right.

Kyle: 00:28:38

When do you get superhuman abilities like they all did?

Speaker D: 00:28:42

Yeah.

Kyle: 00:28:42

Like 16 minutes.

Dr. Ben: 00:28:43

Is that right?

Speaker D: 00:28:44

Yeah.

Dr. Ben: 00:28:44

No, don't try this at home.

Kyle: 00:28:45

That's when I can lift a car. When I come back, I'm going to go. I know this is crazy. I've been hating on this movie, but I still think flatliners is a better interpretation.

Yeah, I. I never was part of the Sixth Sense hype. I never thought. I never. I liked Bruce Willis a lot, but I never thought Haley Joel Osmond was. He irritated me to death.

Seth: 00:29:05

Interesting.

Kyle: 00:29:05

I just thought that movie was overblown. And I never understood why it was in the culture. At least this, for all of its faults. And this is this, really.

We haven't talked a lot about Joel Schumacher. Schumacher. But rest in peace.

Seth: 00:29:18

We did one of his other other movies. I forget which one.

Speaker D: 00:29:20

Yeah.

Seth: 00:29:21

Done one of his other movies.

Kyle: 00:29:21

We did.

Speaker D: 00:29:22

Yeah.

Kyle: 00:29:22

And he's got a movie in my top 50. For all of his faults, there's no one that's more Joel Schumacher than Joel Schumacher. He's not imitating anyone. No, he's kind of like I, I.

And I also. What's his name? Boz. The director.

Speaker D: 00:29:37

Yeah.

Kyle: 00:29:37

Baz Luhrmann. There's not him without Joel Schumacher this hyper saturated. He always enjoyed hypersaturated colors. And when it works, it's fantastic.

And when it's bad, it hits really bad.

Speaker E: 00:29:50

Yeah.

Kyle: 00:29:50

But I do have to give him some credit. Like, I can't really compare him to anyone else.

Speaker D: 00:29:55

Yeah.

Kyle: 00:29:55

Batman Robin. Is it really bad?

Speaker D: 00:29:57

Yeah.

Kyle: 00:29:57

But Batman Forever is awesome.

Speaker E: 00:29:58

Yeah.

Seth: 00:29:59

And.

Kyle: 00:29:59

And when it goes bad, it goes really bad. But he's. He's original.

Speaker E: 00:30:02

Yeah.

Kyle: 00:30:02

And I.

Seth: 00:30:02

It is true.

Speaker D: 00:30:03

I.

Kyle: 00:30:03

And I appreciate him. At least you know, when he's coming out of the 80s and going to the 90s with the movie.

Speaker D: 00:30:08

Yeah.

Kyle: 00:30:08

I think it's a miss, but I still would take it over the Sixth Sense.

Seth: 00:30:11

Good to know.

Speaker D: 00:30:12

Yeah.

Dr. Ben: 00:30:13

Which is weird since we're on the Movie where podcast. Do you know what the similarities were between Titanic and Sixth Sense? I see dead people.

Kyle: 00:30:21

Oh, sorry.

Dr. Ben: 00:30:23

Sorry.

Seth: 00:30:24

Oh, I love it.

Kyle: 00:30:25

Oh, yeah, that was great. Rose was the worst. I'm just gonna say it. What a. Not worth dying for.

Speaker E: 00:30:33

Yeah.

Kyle: 00:30:34

In my opinion, she lured him in with the naked drawing. That's what happens. That's how they always get you. They say. They say, draw me naked and then you're in the ice and there's plenty.

Dr. Ben: 00:30:41

Of room on that door for two people.

Kyle: 00:30:43

Yes, there really was James Cameron, actually.

Seth: 00:30:46

After Mythbusters technically proved him wrong, he went back and did his own test and. And showed that it didn't. It didn't work.

Dr. Ben: 00:30:52

It's so two people couldn't be on the door.

Speaker E: 00:30:54

Yeah, dude.

Kyle: 00:30:55

James.

Seth: 00:30:56

It would still have been. His argument was it would have been still just under the surface of the water, so they couldn't have both been on it and dry.

Dr. Ben: 00:31:04

Okay.

Kyle: 00:31:05

James Cameron, one of the absolute greatest of all time, also one of the most arrogant and gets married once per movie, so. But that's hilarious. I didn't know that they did a Mythbusters.

Dr. Ben: 00:31:16

Oh, we should have them on the show, though.

Seth: 00:31:19

James Cameron, we would love to have.

Dr. Ben: 00:31:20

You on Open invitation.

Speaker D: 00:31:21

Yeah.

Kyle: 00:31:22

Just be nice. Linda Hamilton's my girl. Okay. Linda Hamilton's my girl. So don't. Don't come in here with your Linda Hamilton hate.

Is this an 80 movies in 90s clothing?

Seth: 00:31:33

100%. Like I said this. This is in 80s. This was such a perfect.

Like, if this had come out in 87, I think it would have been remembered way more fondly because I could forgive a lot of the mistakes that it made, but it legitimately felt like a high concept, low budget,'80s sci fi movie, but with 90s cameras and lenses.

Dr. Ben: 00:31:56

I thought it was a music. Music video for the Cure at first. That vibe going on.

Kyle: 00:32:02

Yeah, dude, it did feel like that.

Speaker D: 00:32:03

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Seth: 00:32:05

That opening shot of Keith Kiefer Sutherland walking up and just how disproportionately lit he is from the background. It's so bad. It's so, so bad.

Speaker D: 00:32:14

Yeah.

Seth: 00:32:15

I will Say though, like, I said I liked it more because when I first saw it, I absolutely hated it. But this, I was like, okay. But I still now, at this point, I appreciate where it was trying to go, it was trying to do and the ideas behind it.

I just think the execution could have been.

Kyle: 00:32:30

Absolutely. Then I did try it again. We'll talk about that in a minute. What do you think?

Dr. Ben: 00:32:34

What was the budget for that film? Are we on low budget or. I felt like it was a little low vibe.

Kyle: 00:32:39

Oh, no. 26 million.

Seth: 00:32:41

Holy shit.

Kyle: 00:32:41

And it made 61.

Seth: 00:32:43

Good for it.

Speaker D: 00:32:44

Yeah.

Seth: 00:32:44

Wow. Opening weekend it made 10 million.

Speaker D: 00:32:47

Yeah.

Seth: 00:32:48

Wow.

Kyle: 00:32:48

So it.

Dr. Ben: 00:32:49

I felt like they got their, like crash cart from the community theater.

Kyle: 00:32:52

But you said, you said vhs. This would have been the ultimate VHS movie. Like I'm just imagining on a blockbuster, these actors on that cover this. You're renting that movie.

Dr. Ben: 00:33:02

Exactly.

Kyle: 00:33:03

Because that's what a lot of it was, looking at the cast at the blockbuster.

Speaker E: 00:33:05

Yeah.

Kyle: 00:33:06

It was like it wasn't even knowing what the movie is about. I was like, look at that box. Yeah, I want that movie.

Seth: 00:33:10

Well, that was also the thing for studios in general was they never expected to make their money back on the theatrical run. They expected to make the bulk of their money in. In rentals and sales afterwards.

Dr. Ben: 00:33:22

Hadn't Pretty Woman come out before this?

Seth: 00:33:24

I think, yeah. Was that 88? 89.

Kyle: 00:33:27

89.

Seth: 00:33:28

I'm pretty sure, yeah.

Dr. Ben: 00:33:28

So you have Julia Roberts and then while Julia Roberts is in this. Yeah, I'm renting that.

Kyle: 00:33:33

I'm looking it up.: 1990

Seth: 00:33:35

Same year.

Kyle: 00:33:36

Oh, yeah.

Dr. Ben: 00:33:36

But I think a little earlier in the year.

Speaker D: 00:33:38

Yeah, yeah.

Kyle: 00:33:39

A Tale of Two. Julia Roberts's. Because I love her. And this is one of the worst performances I've ever seen from her.

Seth: 00:33:45

The Julia Robertson.

Kyle: 00:33:47

Oh, yeah, The Robert. The Julia Robertsons.

Dr. Ben: 00:33:50

Science coming out.

Speaker D: 00:33:51

Yeah, yeah.

Kyle: 00:33:52

Apparently when she's not a hooker.

Speaker D: 00:33:54

Yeah, yeah.

Seth: 00:33:55

She's a med student who's killing herself.

Speaker D: 00:33:57

Yeah.

Kyle: 00:33:57

It's unfortunate. This movie should have killed itself.

Dr. Ben: 00:34:00

And she didn't allow kissing on the lips. Right. And flatliners.

Seth: 00:34:03

What? What?

Kyle: 00:34:04

Oh, wait, tell me about this.

Dr. Ben: 00:34:05

I didn't see oh, no. From Pretty Woman. She doesn't allow.

Kyle: 00:34:08

When she's hooking.

Speaker D: 00:34:10

Yeah.

Kyle: 00:34:10

I think hooker's got to have rules.

Seth: 00:34:12

What a weird random turn for her to just end up with Kevin Bacon's character.

Speaker D: 00:34:17

Yeah.

Seth: 00:34:17

Like there was no sexual tension between them ever. And then out of nowhere she's just in bed with him.

Speaker D: 00:34:23

Yeah, I know.

Seth: 00:34:24

That was like, what?

Dr. Ben: 00:34:25

Well, and Then in real life, didn't they start date Kiefer Sutherland and Julia Robertson.

Kyle: 00:34:28

They were engaged.

Seth: 00:34:29

Oh.

Kyle: 00:34:29

And broke that movie in the middle of the movie.

Dr. Ben: 00:34:32

They started dating on that movie.

Kyle: 00:34:34

That's Hollywood, baby.

Dr. Ben: 00:34:36

Seriously, though, Lyle Lovell didn't mind.

Speaker D: 00:34:40

Yeah.

Kyle: 00:34:40

That they broke up to answer the question. It's totally. You know, it. It took a minute. I'm trying to think of, to me, where the 90s became the 90s from a film perspective.

And I think the first movie I rem that I think of that I felt like the 90s was here was Point Break in 92 with Keanu, because Keanu was coming up, and then, you know, it was like kind of like, this is what 90s action is gonna feel like. I feel like it separated itself from 80s action.

Speaker E: 00:35:04

Yeah.

Kyle: 00:35:05

Because it wasn't Arnold. It wasn't Sly. It was kind of its own thing. I think of the Crow.

Speaker E: 00:35:09

Yeah.

Kyle: 00:35:09

Because the Crow,: 1994

Speaker E: 00:35:13

Yeah.

Seth: 00:35:14

It has way more stylized than most.

Speaker D: 00:35:16

Yeah.

Seth: 00:35:16

Movies were.

Speaker D: 00:35:17

Yeah.

Kyle: 00:35:17

And I think kind of 94, 92. That kind of. Maybe when we started to get a sense of this is the identity of the 90s.

Speaker E: 00:35:23

Yeah.

Kyle: 00:35:23

But this. This feels like a cousin to Lost Boys to me, to his other movie.

Seth: 00:35:27

I mean, like I said, it feels like Judge Dredd, which was very much stuck in the 80s for.

Kyle: 00:35:32

Yes.

Speaker D: 00:35:33

Yeah.

Kyle: 00:35:33

It's interesting. I mean, I guess you're not gonna. You're not gonna get the flavor of the new just because it releases in a new decade.

It's not gonna define the decade right away. But.

Speaker E: 00:35:40

Yeah.

Kyle: 00:35:41

Coming out 90 filmed in 89. It's not advancing the needle.

Speaker E: 00:35:44

Yeah.

Kyle: 00:35:44

In that way.

Seth: 00:35:46

Do the Right Thing came out the year before this.

Kyle: 00:35:48

Right.

Seth: 00:35:48

That was 89.

Speaker E: 00:35:49

That.

Seth: 00:35:49

That visually, that looked way better, and.

Kyle: 00:35:51

It felt more modern.

Seth: 00:35:52

It did. It really did.

Kyle: 00:35:54

ean, hell, Brazil came out in: 1985

Seth: 00:36:02

He was ahead of his time.

Speaker D: 00:36:03

Yeah.

Seth: 00:36:03

Very ahead of his time.

Speaker D: 00:36:04

Yeah.

Kyle: 00:36:05

Because that movie, when you watch it, it feels like it could have been a cousin to 12 Monkeys, which came out.

Seth: 00:36:09

Which also. Terry Gilliam.

Speaker D: 00:36:11

Yeah.

Kyle: 00:36:11

Yeah, exactly. And it kind of felt like he was always modern.

Speaker E: 00:36:14

Yeah.

Speaker D: 00:36:14

Yeah.

Kyle: 00:36:15

Next question. I love this one. This is a hard one for me to answer, but which character did you hope the most didn't come back to life?

Seth: 00:36:23

What was the. Baldwin.

Kyle: 00:36:24

William Baldwin's character.

Seth: 00:36:25

Baldwin hated him. He was so unlikable. In any way, shape, or form.

Dr. Ben: 00:36:29

Form.

Seth: 00:36:30

Honestly, I. I genuinely think one of the characters should have died.

Speaker D: 00:36:34

Yes.

Seth: 00:36:35

Like. Like, not, like.

All jokes aside, I think it would have been a much better story if one of the characters actually ended up killing themselves after the fact because they couldn't handle what they were going through.

Speaker D: 00:36:46

Yeah.

Seth: 00:36:46

And I think it should have been his character.

Speaker D: 00:36:48

Yeah.

Kyle: 00:36:48

Somebody should have died.

Speaker E: 00:36:49

Yeah.

Dr. Ben: 00:36:50

And from a medical standpoint, probably Kiefer Sutherland, who was under the longest.

Seth: 00:36:55

Yeah.

Dr. Ben: 00:36:55

He was down for Right. From a medical accuracy standpoint, it would have been him, but.

Speaker E: 00:37:00

Yeah.

Dr. Ben: 00:37:01

And then we never saw Platts demons. He never went under flatlined.

Seth: 00:37:06

Oh, yeah.

Kyle: 00:37:06

He was the most annoying. For damn sure.

Seth: 00:37:08

For real.

Dr. Ben: 00:37:08

I was curious what his demon was. So we don't know what his demon was. Yeah.

Kyle: 00:37:12

And he's a great actor.

Seth: 00:37:13

Like, demon was. No one liked him.

Speaker D: 00:37:15

Yeah. Yeah.

Kyle: 00:37:17

This movie is weird. Like, I think Oliver Platt's a great actor, and it somehow made him so annoying.

Speaker E: 00:37:22

Yeah.

Kyle: 00:37:23

I love him, but in this, I'm like, I can't stand him.

Speaker E: 00:37:25

Yeah.

Kyle: 00:37:27

I. This is tough for me.

Speaker D: 00:37:28

I'm.

Kyle: 00:37:29

All the bald ones have basically run their course with me between Alec Baldwin. I used to love Stephen Baldwin, but, you know, he's out of his mind.

I just, like, I don't know how any Baldwin, but I'm actually gonna go a different way. I love Kiefer Sutherland, but when I saw him falling out of that tree, I said, I hope you don't wake up.

Speaker E: 00:37:46

Yeah.

Kyle: 00:37:47

Yes. None of their demons are interesting, though. And they're very oddly specific.

Dr. Ben: 00:37:52

Right?

Speaker E: 00:37:52

Yeah.

Kyle: 00:37:53

Like, for first of all, you can be a bully in elementary school and still turn out to be an okay person.

Speaker E: 00:37:59

Yeah.

Kyle: 00:37:59

Although he turned out to be a guy that wanted people to die and come back to life. So maybe there is a correlation.

Speaker E: 00:38:04

Yeah.

Kyle: 00:38:04

But this sex taping or the nude. Nude women taping, that was oddly specific.

Dr. Ben: 00:38:09

Yes.

Kyle: 00:38:10

Like, I don't relate to any of these demons. Like, you know, I left $100 bill that my mom gave me at the store. Like, I. You know.

But once I saw KE for the Sutherland falling out of that tree, I was like, please die.

Speaker E: 00:38:21

Yeah.

Kyle: 00:38:21

Please, please. Movie die.

Speaker E: 00:38:23

Yeah.

Seth: 00:38:24

Have you. Have either of you seen the movie the Loft?

Dr. Ben: 00:38:28

No.

Seth: 00:38:29

Carl Urban is in it. Jason or James Marsden, and there's a couple other really good actors in it. It almost did a similar concept, but way better. The.

It didn't do, like, the medical, like, dying and coming back to life, but it did do a whole, like, facing your demons and facing the bad part of who you are. It did it significantly better, in my opinion, with such a vastly different way about it. But yeah, this as.

As fun as the philosophical discussions were, I just never felt like they really led anywhere of substance.

Speaker D: 00:39:02

Yeah.

Kyle: 00:39:03

It didn't. It didn't tell me anything about the human condition.

Speaker E: 00:39:06

Yeah.

Kyle: 00:39:06

It didn't tell me anything about medicine.

Speaker D: 00:39:08

It.

Kyle: 00:39:09

It just didn't inform me at all. And the visuals were so bad.

Speaker E: 00:39:12

Yeah.

Kyle: 00:39:13

And the demons were so unrelatable.

Speaker E: 00:39:15

Yeah.

Kyle: 00:39:15

And there was literally nothing throughout this movie where I'm like. I'm like, I can sink my teeth into this. Like. And it managed to make four or five. Well, I'll say. Not William Baldwin. Three really great actors.

Unlikable. Three greats. Like three people that will go down as greats. Kevin Bacon, Keeper Southern. Julie Roberts. Those are hall of fame actors.

Seth: 00:39:33

Absolutely.

Kyle: 00:39:33

Made them unwatchable.

Speaker E: 00:39:34

Yeah.

Kyle: 00:39:35

So maybe the Flatline should have been the movie. The movie should have flatlined. It should have died in production.

Seth: 00:39:40

I'd say it wasn't flat. Kevin Bacon's hair.

Kyle: 00:39:42

Nope. Kevin Bacon's hair was legit.

Speaker E: 00:39:46

Yeah.

Kyle: 00:39:46

I love you, Kevin Bacon.

Dr. Ben: 00:39:47

Best supporting here. The Oscar.

Kyle: 00:39:50

This was remade in: 2017

Seth: 00:39:54

Not as a movie.

Speaker D: 00:39:55

Yeah.

Seth: 00:39:56

I heard this was somehow even worse than this one. Than the original one was.

Kyle: 00:40:00

Yeah, it was worse.

Speaker E: 00:40:01

Yeah.

Speaker D: 00:40:01

Yeah, yeah.

Kyle: 00:40:02

And Kiefer Sutherland reprises a character as he's a professor in the movie who teaches.

Seth: 00:40:07

Okay.

Speaker D: 00:40:07

Yeah.

Kyle: 00:40:08

I didn't actually watch it, but that was my research. But they cut most of the scenes out, so he's only in it for a little bit.

Seth: 00:40:12

Yeah. Again, the only way you could have done this well is to have longer. To really get in depth of who they were.

Kyle: 00:40:19

Right.

Seth: 00:40:20

Because that being in it for this type of story, being in a two hour format, I don't think.

Speaker D: 00:40:25

Right.

Kyle: 00:40:25

What do you think?

Dr. Ben: 00:40:27

Not worth remaking. So the first one was a flap. Why would you.

Speaker D: 00:40:30

Yeah, well.

Kyle: 00:40:32

And there is a cult aspect to this movie. There are people that love this movie and there's a lot of people that have it also. Obviously did great at the box.

And a lot of people have positive associations based on my research. I'm just not one of them.

Speaker E: 00:40:44

Yeah.

Kyle: 00:40:46

I. I'm hard enough on remakes of good movies that they're doing. I always think it's hilarious when they take something really bad.

Speaker E: 00:40:52

Yeah.

Kyle: 00:40:53

And be like, maybe we can make it good this time.

Seth: 00:40:55

And I mean, that's. I feel like that should be the point of remakes is to take a cool concept and make it better.

Instead of taking a good movie and just crapping all over it.

Speaker D: 00:41:03

Yeah.

Kyle: 00:41:03

They got a worse cast together.

Speaker E: 00:41:05

Yeah.

Kyle: 00:41:05

They got a lower budget.

Speaker E: 00:41:06

Yeah.

Kyle: 00:41:07

Like we can do it this time. We can. We can bring flatliners to life. We can resurrect it.

Seth: 00:41:13

Didn't they even kind of change the concept of it?

Kyle: 00:41:15

Yeah, it's different.

Dr. Ben: 00:41:16

What's the premise now?

Kyle: 00:41:18

I think actually that it's like a new set of students.

Dr. Ben: 00:41:20

Okay.

Kyle: 00:41:21

Yeah, it's like a new set of students and they're trying to like, I think I, I didn't watch it, but I believe they stumble upon the research of the old group.

Seth: 00:41:26

Oh, so it's a sequel.

Kyle: 00:41:28

Yeah, it's like there's an argument.

Seth: 00:41:29

Sequel.

Kyle: 00:41:30

Yeah, it's like a reboot remake thing. It's like, I don't know, there was a lot of arguments over about it online.

Seth: 00:41:35

Interesting.

Kyle: 00:41:35

That I read about.

Seth: 00:41:36

That's so weird.

Kyle: 00:41:37

I'm not gonna watch it because I don't know, the first one was horrible.

Speaker E: 00:41:40

Yeah.

Seth: 00:41:41

And like I said, I've heard it's even worse.

Kyle: 00:41:43

So last question before we do the who won who law or who or what won and lost? It's hard to say. Would any. And this is where I want you to shine. Would any real medical student actually follow this experiment?

Is there any practicality or any reason why this should exist in real life, this type of study?

Dr. Ben: 00:42:03

Well, I think all of us probably have curiosity about death and near death experience and wanting to know what's beyond. And that's why they did this was out of curiosity. And so I would think.

But medical students do not have the knowledge or the capability of stopping and.

Seth: 00:42:22

Restarting hearts or the time to dedicate to something like this.

Speaker D: 00:42:28

Right.

Dr. Ben: 00:42:28

So this study would not get by any IRB or institutional review board or ethics committee. So there was a Declaration of Helsinki that was put out with regards to informed consent and risks and benefits.

And so I don't think anyone would approve.

Speaker D: 00:42:43

Yeah.

Dr. Ben: 00:42:44

And then what if someone had died? Would they all be like charged with manslaughter?

Speaker D: 00:42:47

Yeah.

Seth: 00:42:48

So didn't they say they signed waivers?

Kyle: 00:42:50

Yeah, there was like a letter that said, oh, this will prove that you're innocent.

Speaker E: 00:42:53

Yeah.

Kyle: 00:42:54

They had an envelope.

Dr. Ben: 00:42:55

Yeah. I think it said, you will die. You might not come back, but you will face your childhood demons through hallucinations and.

Kyle: 00:43:02

Yeah, it's a bad deal.

Speaker E: 00:43:03

Yeah.

Dr. Ben: 00:43:04

Right.

Kyle: 00:43:04

All around.

Dr. Ben: 00:43:06

So I don't know about any practicality. I don't think anyone would purposely try to experience death in hopes of coming back.

Speaker D: 00:43:13

Yeah, yeah.

Seth: 00:43:14

Like I said before we started the episode, the only thing I've ever heard of that even kind of got close to this concept was the idea of, like, weighing the soul as it left the body.

And I mean, I know the Nazis did all sorts of horrific death studies with, with all of the things they were doing, but, like, that's, that's the only reason we, we know as much as we do, apparently about, like, how the human body decays is just because of how, like, going with their medical experience. But yeah, I feel like at this point you wouldn't. Why would you put for, for a philosophical question. There is no practical application.

Speaker D: 00:43:50

Yeah.

Seth: 00:43:50

To what you would get out of this. This is nothing but a philosophical quandary. And yeah, I feel like there's no reason why you would ever put people's life in danger over Phil.

Philosophical quandaries.

Dr. Ben: 00:44:01

Yes. High mortality rate. And if you did survive and were brought back, you would definitely have probably very serious neurologic deficits.

Speaker D: 00:44:09

Yeah, yeah.

Dr. Ben: 00:44:10

Not walking around and taking a test tomorrow morning at 8 o' clock in medical school.

Speaker D: 00:44:15

Yeah.

Kyle: 00:44:15

Embedding Julia Roberts.

Speaker E: 00:44:16

Yeah.

Speaker D: 00:44:17

Yeah.

Seth: 00:44:19

Still having perfect hair.

Speaker D: 00:44:20

Yeah.

Kyle: 00:44:21

And still haven't.

Speaker D: 00:44:21

Yep.

Dr. Ben: 00:44:22

That might be a desired side effect, but yeah.

Speaker D: 00:44:26

Yeah.

Kyle: 00:44:26

I, I don't understand. And, and to me, for the movie, like, there are. There probably were 50 different, more interesting ways to handle this premise than they did.

Seth: 00:44:36

Oh, yeah.

Kyle: 00:44:37

Like, what if they came back as a serial killer? Like, all their worst instincts came to life when they came back. And yeah, one of them came back as a serial killer.

Or instead of, like being tortured by these, these demons, like that were not interesting at all. There was just a lot of different ways they could have taken it.

Speaker E: 00:44:52

Yeah.

Kyle: 00:44:52

But in real life.

Speaker D: 00:44:54

Yeah.

Kyle: 00:44:54

I mean, unless we find out that, like, when you die, like, something really interesting happens when you die. Like you, like the worst job you ever have, you just do for eternity.

You know, it's like, well, when I was a teller at that bank, you know, now I'm a teller at the bank of Heaven.

Speaker E: 00:45:07

Yeah.

Kyle: 00:45:07

And I get screamed at because I can't count change. You know, that's really specific.

Dr. Ben: 00:45:11

I lost my job as a bank teller.

Speaker E: 00:45:13

Oh, wow.

Kyle: 00:45:13

Nice. And look at you today.

Dr. Ben: 00:45:15

Well, a woman came in and asked me to check her balance, so I pushed her over, put in a few singers in there.

Seth: 00:45:23

See, you just said something that now I've come up with a way better movie with the same concept. They die. There's some sort of full process they have to go through in, let's say the three Minutes that they're dead before they come back.

One person gets brought back too early and his actual subconscious is lost in his subconscious, and he comes back as someone else and they have to put him back through that process to bring his actual consciousness. That would have been a way better move.

Kyle: 00:45:50

We just thought of that in 30 seconds.

Seth: 00:45:52

Literally. Come at me, Hollywood. I want to do this.

Kyle: 00:45:54

Joel Schumacher. Schumacher, a fantastic filmmaker. Sometimes.

Speaker E: 00:45:57

Yeah.

Kyle: 00:45:58

Had a whole whatever amount of time to write this, and he didn't think of anything better. And we just came up with something. Literally, what you just said was more interesting than this whole movie.

Dr. Ben: 00:46:06

Kind of like me, Myself and Irene with Jim Carrey.

Speaker E: 00:46:08

Yeah.

Dr. Ben: 00:46:09

Like an alter. You come back as your alter ego.

Seth: 00:46:11

Exactly.

Dr. Ben: 00:46:12

Like how we got to get the old set back.

Speaker E: 00:46:14

Yes.

Dr. Ben: 00:46:14

What do we do? Like. Yeah, like his alter ego.

Speaker D: 00:46:17

Yeah.

Kyle: 00:46:18

It's just. It's just a dumb premise. And they. They were. There were a lot of better ways.

Speaker E: 00:46:22

Yeah.

Kyle: 00:46:23

All right. This is going to be an interesting one.

Speaker E: 00:46:25

But who.

Kyle: 00:46:25

Who or what won the movie and who or what lost the movie for you?

Seth: 00:46:28

What won the movie for me was Kevin Bacon's hair. Yes, absolutely. Best performance of the whole movie. I was convinced the whole way through. It was fantastic.

I honestly, I think the culmination of everything is what lost the movie for me. I think there are some. Some good aspects.

I think most of the background cast actually was really good, but I think overall the direction and the writing really tainted everyone else's performance.

Speaker D: 00:46:56

Yeah.

Seth: 00:46:56

And so for me, it just. Yeah, it was kind of from a top trickle down. Like, it just kind of all got tainted.

Dr. Ben: 00:47:02

Yeah. I'm trying to think what you. You took Kevin Bacon's hair. That was definitely a winner. And then just from a medical standpoint, as a doctor, just the.

It's replete with medical inaccuracies, even from when they're performing CPR and they're like, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5.

Speaker E: 00:47:20

Yeah.

Seth: 00:47:20

: 1000

Dr. Ben: 00:47:25

Getting on and you're breaking ribs, unfortunately.

Speaker E: 00:47:28

Oh, yeah.

Dr. Ben: 00:47:28

It's not this.

Seth: 00:47:29

Have you seen the Pit yet? Oh, it's a great show on hbo. It kind of follows.

Speaking of Kiefer Sutherland, it follows the 24 format where every episode is an actual in show hour. And it's the emergency room in Pittsburgh and it's a 17 hour day and you follow it hour by hour. It's really good.

Apparently one of the most medically accurate Shows that's out right now.

Dr. Ben: 00:47:55

But I couldn't help but just kind of pick it. Apart from a medical standpoint of that's not the ratio of compressions to rescue breaths or you don't defibrillate. Asystole, flatlining.

But even other stuff like where he breaks the truck window in the back is soft open.

Seth: 00:48:08

Yeah.

Dr. Ben: 00:48:09

The kids in there. And he's breaking the driver's window. Like just go around the back where he is.

Speaker E: 00:48:14

Yeah.

Seth: 00:48:14

A lot of continuity errors.

Speaker D: 00:48:16

Yeah. Yeah.

Kyle: 00:48:17

Nothing beats Grey's Anatomy, though. Also known as the unluckiest hospital on the planet.

Speaker D: 00:48:22

Yeah.

Dr. Ben: 00:48:23

I could be on there, though, maybe. Dr. McFunney.

Speaker E: 00:48:26

There you go.

Speaker D: 00:48:26

Yeah, there you go. There you go.

Dr. Ben: 00:48:29

So you said I'm available, Dr. McFunney.

Speaker D: 00:48:31

Yeah, he's.

Kyle: 00:48:32

Casting call.

Speaker D: 00:48:33

Yeah.

Kyle: 00:48:33

So what did you. You said the, the medical inaccuracies. Lost it for you. Did something win it for you? What did you say?

Dr. Ben: 00:48:39

Well, I might have to steal Kevin Bacon's hair. That was.

Speaker D: 00:48:42

Yeah.

Dr. Ben: 00:48:43

Should have won an Oscar, but.

Speaker E: 00:48:44

Yeah.

Speaker D: 00:48:44

Yeah.

Seth: 00:48:45

100.

Speaker D: 00:48:45

Yeah.

Kyle: 00:48:45

This movie did get nominated for sound editing, actually. It won for sound editing.

Dr. Ben: 00:48:49

Wow.

Seth: 00:48:50

Really?

Kyle: 00:48:50

Yeah, it won an Oscar for sound editing.

Seth: 00:48:51

I mean, of all the things that went wrong with this movie, the. The ADR was actually pretty on point.

Speaker D: 00:48:56

Yeah.

Seth: 00:48:56

I was not mad at the sound effects. Like nothing. Whatever was happening on screen, I never audibly thought something was off. So. Yeah, good for them.

Kyle: 00:49:04

You were too distracted by the horrible premise, the bad performances.

Speaker E: 00:49:07

Yeah.

Kyle: 00:49:08

What won this movie for me is Joel Schumacher. When he swings big, he misses big, but he also takes some big swings and wins. And he's had, you know, he's had a few.

To me, in my book, again, Lost Boys is in my top 50. I think it's an amazing vampire movie and it's super stylish. And he. He. There's really not another person like him. And got. Again, rest in peace.

But I also, you know, this is a big miss from him. But I also appreciate his. His creativity, his individuality as a. As a creative. And I do think he has a lot to offer as a director.

I just think he misses really big sometimes. But I do appreciate the attempt here. What's bad? If I had to pick one thing, and there are so many bad things. It's.

It's so hard to get this many good actors to be. Act so badly.

Speaker E: 00:49:52

Yeah.

Kyle: 00:49:53

I just. Across the board, not a single performance here.

And I don't know what's distracting him from getting good performances because nothing else is interesting.

Seth: 00:50:03

I Wonder if there was, like, production issues that they were dealing with. Maybe just kind of distracted from him. Bob.

Speaker D: 00:50:08

Yeah.

Seth: 00:50:09

That's kind of what this felt like, is it? It felt like. It felt like I could feel the behind the scenes bleeding into it.

Speaker D: 00:50:15

Yeah.

Seth: 00:50:15

There was something external affecting everything else.

Kyle: 00:50:18

Julie Roberts, who, you know, when I think about, you know, she won the Oscar for Aaron Brockovich. Like, she can be so animated and she can be so lively, and I've seen some performances from her where she's just really electric.

Speaker E: 00:50:29

Yeah.

Kyle: 00:50:29

And there's none of that here. Everyone's drab. And I get it. The this. The context is drab. But, like, you're not telling me one person in this group has a sense of humor about death.

Like, no one's, like, cracking like, you. You're a doctor. You just cracked a death joke.

Dr. Ben: 00:50:42

Right.

Kyle: 00:50:42

It's like no one in this group can crack a joke about this. Everyone's so damn serious the whole time. Lastly, the. The setting.

And I realized that Loyola apparently has a room that looks like this, but it looks like a room where, like, sacrifices happen.

Dr. Ben: 00:50:57

Cathedral, like some incense and candles.

Speaker E: 00:50:59

Yeah.

Kyle: 00:50:59

Yes. Which is funny because eventually Peter Fi would also write the craft. That witch movie, which I actually really liked.

Seth: 00:51:09

Interesting.

Kyle: 00:51:09

But also funny enough. And we'll get to this on the scorecard. But, you know, Jan De Bont was the cinematographer, the director of Speed Twister. Yeah, he was.

He did the cinematography here, which is funny because it's so bad. But, yeah, there's just. I just weird watching. And these actors are in their prime here and they're just doing bad.

Seth: 00:51:28

Yeah.

Kyle: 00:51:29

Literally, like, Oliver Platt, who I think is one of the greats, is just annoying here. So. Congratulations, dad. Joel Schumacher. Maybe you should have come back from dying. Okay, that's dark. I love you, Joel Schumacher.

Sorry, I don't know how I'm gonna handle that in the edit.

Seth: 00:51:44

To the war zone.

Kyle: 00:51:45

To the war zone. All right, as a reminder, we've retooled the war card.

It's a rapid fire, host by host, breakdown of how we felt about cast, writing, directing, and what's in front of us.

Seth: 00:51:57

Unfortunately, the cast is a no for me. It's like, as great as the actors are outside of this movie, there was just not a single good performance performance on the main cast.

And the couple of people in the supporting cast who did do well, I don't think could outweigh how bad everyone else was. So it's a no for me on that. Writing is also going to be a no.

Like, I Unlike you, I actually really think there's some meat with the premise, but I think this has just not been handled correctly. Premise could have been really good if it had been executed well. And I think it especially started to go wrong with the script in general.

Kyle: 00:52:28

Was it dead on arrival?

Seth: 00:52:30

Yeah, I think so. Yeah. Yeah, I'm just going to ignore you on that one.

Dr. Ben: 00:52:34

Charge the pedals.

Seth: 00:52:35

I was going to go no for directing, but you've actually changed my mind. Really, because I kind of agree with you. At least he swung hard for an original concept and an original kind of way to go about it.

So it's going to be a squeak over for interesting. Good job, Joel Schumacher. At least you tried. I've seen so many other people with so many other bad movies where you can tell they just gave up.

And I feel like he. He still was doing everything he could to get it across. Yeah, exactly.

It is going to be a squeak under for me as far as what's in front of us, because I disagree with you this. The cinematography itself is incredible, but it's the lighting that's terrible and that's a whole other department.

Dr. Ben: 00:53:15

And.

Seth: 00:53:16

And a lot of that I feel like probably had to do with Joel Schumacher's directing in how weirdly, unnaturally contrasty the lighting was. Either it was too orange or you would switch between just straight up red, straight up blue. But the cinematography was good.

Like, I actually really liked the way the camera moved and how the. Where the camera was and what it was doing. And I agree with the Oscars. The sound design was pretty great.

I'm sure it had some pretty terrible competition that year.

Speaker D: 00:53:46

Yeah, good.

Seth: 00:53:47

Good for them. You won on that one. But it is going to be a squeak under for me. Like, it just.

Yeah, the great things were not good enough to really pull up everything else that went wrong.

Kyle: 00:53:57

Yeah, the biggest thing for me, the lighting. I don't know if this is where it broke for you. I didn't notice how bad the lighting was until the diner scene when they're talking in that cafeteria.

Seth: 00:54:05

Oh, no. I actually like that scene.

Kyle: 00:54:07

Really? I don't understand why. The lighting was so. It was like pink and blue and I was like, this is a. This is a cafeteria.

Speaker E: 00:54:12

Yeah.

Seth: 00:54:13

For me, it. It really broke the few times it would just switch to straight white red for no reason.

There's no external reason for it to switch to red other than, oh, I guess now they're in the nightmare state. But I don't know, it just. Yeah. Did not communicate what I think he was trying to communicate.

Kyle: 00:54:31

Makes sense. What do you think?

Dr. Ben: 00:54:34

Yes. For a allstar cast. Very disappointing acting. So a no from. From the cast. Even though it was a.

A great cast, the acting was left a little to be desired. So writing.

Seth: 00:54:46

Good.

Dr. Ben: 00:54:46

Good premise. But not. Not believable for me, especially from a medical standpoint. And I did not get any medical school vibes from that movie.

Even though they're all supposed to be in medical school.

Seth: 00:55:01

Even the exam room didn't feel like a medical room.

Speaker D: 00:55:04

Yeah.

Seth: 00:55:05

It was so weird.

Speaker D: 00:55:05

Yeah.

Dr. Ben: 00:55:07

Yeah. Like they're having medical school in a cathedral or church or Hogwarts or something. So. And then directing.

I'm having a hard time giving yes to any of these.

Seth: 00:55:19

That's fair. Do whatever you feel you want to.

Speaker D: 00:55:22

Yeah.

Kyle: 00:55:23

You hate it.

Dr. Ben: 00:55:25

No. And then same with what's in front of us. Just did not get any vibes of connecting with any characters. Any believability from a medical standpoint.

But where the premise was interesting and we were curious about near death experiences. But for them all to have the same kind of near death experience where your demons come back to haunt you.

Speaker D: 00:55:49

Right.

Speaker E: 00:55:49

Yeah.

Dr. Ben: 00:55:50

Hallucinations. So I guess. No. No.

Seth: 00:55:53

For me, that's fair. Four nos on your side.

Kyle: 00:55:56

Big no.

Seth: 00:55:56

Yeah.

Kyle: 00:55:57

I. Yeah. Cast. What's funny is Lost Boys is cheesy. There's a lot of cheese in it. But it. If for some reason it feels like it. That's what it's supposed to be.

And it works here. Like I'm just like. It's not that it's cheesy, it's just like there's no direction.

Speaker E: 00:56:12

Yeah.

Kyle: 00:56:13

Everyone's flat. Like there needed to be one dynamic character. Somebody.

I actually think it would have vastly been improved if not everyone was so damn serious the whole time. One person to be a counterpoint. And there is no counterpoint in this movie. We also don't meet a lot of people.

Speaker E: 00:56:27

Yeah.

Kyle: 00:56:27

Outside of the group. Like there's the way.

Seth: 00:56:29

Large credits though for the cast.

Speaker D: 00:56:31

Yeah.

Seth: 00:56:31

There's a weird amount of people.

Speaker D: 00:56:33

Yeah.

Kyle: 00:56:33

But you don't really get to know any of them. And like you said, you don't actually get to know the main characters.

Speaker E: 00:56:38

Yeah.

Kyle: 00:56:39

And that's probably another reason why we don't care about their demons. Because we don't actually care about them anyway. Exactly. I don't care. They have demons.

Speaker E: 00:56:44

Yeah.

Kyle: 00:56:44

You seem boring and annoying and so it's a big no. I mean, I hate to say it. It's one of the biggest no's in history for me. Writing.

I don't Understand what these medical students are doing with their other time.

Speaker E: 00:56:59

Yeah. The.

Kyle: 00:57:00

I get it. Like, you got to have this premise. Let's say this is a good premise.

I still think it would have added to it if we see just little glimpses of their real life as medical students.

Seth: 00:57:09

Absolutely. That's where I think a miniseries could have lended to that. You could. You could spend more time on their actual life.

Speaker D: 00:57:15

Yeah.

Kyle: 00:57:16

Like, what was interesting, like hearing you describe some of the experiences you had medical school in the classes and where you learn certain things. Like just a little tiny bit of it.

Speaker E: 00:57:23

Yeah.

Kyle: 00:57:24

Just to know that these are real medical students and they don't just spend all their spare time trying to revive their dead friends.

Speaker E: 00:57:29

Right.

Kyle: 00:57:30

Like you're. You have an exam tomorrow. None of these. They don't have an exam tomorrow. None of them.

Speaker E: 00:57:34

Yeah.

Kyle: 00:57:35

No.

Dr. Ben: 00:57:35

Definitely not realistic.

Seth: 00:57:36

The one exam where they're cutting open cadavers.

Kyle: 00:57:38

Yes.

Speaker E: 00:57:39

Yeah.

Kyle: 00:57:39

That's the only school activity we see besides this. This a. This medieval looking room they're in.

Speaker E: 00:57:44

Yeah.

Dr. Ben: 00:57:46

So I. Julia Roberts was cutting open a cadaver and she puts her messy glove to her mouth and nose. I was like, yeah, that would not happen. And.

Speaker E: 00:57:53

No.

Speaker D: 00:57:53

Yeah.

Kyle: 00:57:54

You would probably vomit if you did that by accident. Like if you sneeze, like. Oh, my God.

Speaker D: 00:58:00

Yeah.

Kyle: 00:58:01

Just nothing.

Speaker D: 00:58:01

Yeah.

Kyle: 00:58:02

There's just no directing. And I. I do love that. It's funny that you took what I said to go squeak over. I still. Yeah, I still do go. I'll say squeak under.

Seth: 00:58:11

Yeah.

Kyle: 00:58:12

Again, I appreciate the. I appreciate the attempt. There's just a lot of malpractice here.

Seth: 00:58:17

Yeah.

Kyle: 00:58:17

There's just nothing's working for this movie. And. And you're right. Some of the. The images and the cinematography is good, but there's some major missteps.

. It's: 1990

Seth: 00:58:30

Imagine how bad the other takes were.

Speaker D: 00:58:32

Yeah.

Dr. Ben: 00:58:33

If that made the cut, that's what that means.

Kyle: 00:58:35

Someone. Someone sat in to look at the final cut of this and thought, that stays in.

Speaker E: 00:58:39

Yeah.

Kyle: 00:58:40

And I'm just like, whoever that person is, they should have flatlined.

Seth: 00:58:43

Let me tell you what I think the situation was. They. They watched it and they were like, what's that? And they were like, oh, yeah, that's the best one. I don't believe you. Show me the others.

And then they watch the others like, oh, no, you're right. Yeah, you are right. That is. That is the Only.

Speaker E: 00:58:57

Yeah.

Seth: 00:58:58

Okay.

Dr. Ben: 00:58:59

Did they have to test people falling out of trees to see Maybe.

Seth: 00:59:02

Who knows?

Dr. Ben: 00:59:03

Doing the air swim.

Speaker D: 00:59:04

Yeah.

Dr. Ben: 00:59:04

Freestyle.

Speaker D: 00:59:05

Yeah.

Seth: 00:59:05

I don't know.

Kyle: 00:59:06

Was he on a wire? Was he laying on a platform? And they only filmed the top half of his body.

Speaker D: 00:59:10

I mean.

Seth: 00:59:10

I mean, what. A lot of times what they'll do.

Speaker E: 00:59:12

Yeah.

Seth: 00:59:12

Is just lay them on a green screen or blue screen and then just go.

Kyle: 00:59:16

It was so bad.

Speaker E: 00:59:17

Yeah.

Kyle: 00:59:17

I can't believe it passed muster. And there's a lot of those. There's mishaps. I mean, I just think I've seen this man make. Really.

And he took Batman forever, which is a very boisterous attempt at Batman ip. But it works.

Speaker E: 00:59:29

Yeah.

Kyle: 00:59:29

And he gets. He has a big cast in it. He has a bigger cast than this.

And he manages to get a cohesive, fun experience going with Val Kilmer, Jim Carrey, Tommy Lee Jones, Nicole Kidman. Here. He's got an arguably. Yes. Younger version, but a big cast here. And just nothing.

Speaker E: 00:59:44

Yeah.

Kyle: 00:59:45

I don't know what he was doing. But.

Speaker D: 00:59:46

Yeah.

Kyle: 00:59:47

It does. It falls short. And then what's in front of us. I do agree. You almost changed my mind.

I do think the cinematography is great, but I don't like any of the sets.

Speaker E: 00:59:53

Yeah.

Kyle: 00:59:54

I don't like where they're located. I don't know why the diner is colored like that or the cafeteria. There's no.

And I understand there's an argument to be made for movies that feel and look like a dream the entire time. And I love the crow.

Speaker E: 01:00:05

Yeah.

Kyle: 01:00:05

Which a lot of. The crow feels like a fever dream.

Seth: 01:00:07

It does.

Kyle: 01:00:08

But it works because the music is working. There's action. There's a lot of counterpoints.

Speaker D: 01:00:12

Yeah.

Kyle: 01:00:12

Really great soundtrack.

Seth: 01:00:14

This had been set in the Crow universe. And the setting around where. Where they were was. Was as fever dreamish. I probably could have accepted it.

Speaker D: 01:00:24

Yeah.

Seth: 01:00:25

But it. Clearly they were trying to make everything outside of what they were doing feel real.

Speaker D: 01:00:30

Yes.

Seth: 01:00:30

And it just didn't translate.

Speaker D: 01:00:32

Yeah.

Kyle: 01:00:32

And it. It needed that. Because what they're doing is very abnormal.

Speaker E: 01:00:36

Yeah.

Kyle: 01:00:36

But their whole world that we're being presented is abnormal. Like the coloring is abnormal. Like everything they're doing. Like, there's no point where you're like, man, they're the weird ones.

Here's the normality. There's no counterpoint.

Speaker E: 01:00:47

Yeah.

Kyle: 01:00:47

Anywhere. And I just think visually there maybe have been some settings that could have made us feel like we were in reality more. Maybe an improvement to the.

The way the hallucinations looked. Just something to Give us something to feast on. And there's Nothing here.

Dr. Ben: 01:01:01

Nothing.

Kyle: 01:01:01

Straight 04. For me, this is a big no. Yeah, well, what didn't flatline was you, my friend. You crushed it.

Dr. Ben: 01:01:08

Thank you both for having me.

Seth: 01:01:09

Thank you for being here. Very happy to have you.

Speaker D: 01:01:11

Yeah.

Kyle: 01:01:12

What are some other good medical movies before we head out? What are. When you. As a practitioner, when you think of.

Dr. Ben: 01:01:16

Good medical or shows you guys should do, like maybe Spies Like Us. They were.

Speaker D: 01:01:22

Yeah.

Dr. Ben: 01:01:23

Chevy Chaser. They pretend to be surgeons.

Speaker D: 01:01:25

Yeah.

Dr. Ben: 01:01:26

And they're all in the room. Doctor. Doctor. Doctor. That one.

Seth: 01:01:29

Okay.

Dr. Ben: 01:01:30

And they're actually trying to perform a surgery. And.

Kyle: 01:01:32

Yeah, he did that in Fletch, too. Dr. Rosen Penis. Because all the doctors on the board have a Dr. Rosen. Something. And. Dude, have you seen Fletch?

Speaker E: 01:01:40

No.

Kyle: 01:01:40

I think it's maybe the greatest comedy film of all time. He's like. He's like, I'm Dr. Rosen Penis. I mean, Dr. Rosen Rosen, but nice. Great. Well, dude, you were great.

Dr. Ben: 01:01:50

Thank you. Thanks for having me.

Kyle: 01:01:51

Hope to have you back.

Seth: 01:01:52

Absolutely.

Kyle: 01:01:53

Go check out his socials. How do we find you again?

Dr. Ben: 01:01:55

Dr. Ben. Comedy. Dr. Ben comedy.

Kyle: 01:01:57

This dude's hitting up zanies. He's all over the place. I'm Kyle.

Seth: 01:02:00

I'm Seth.

Dr. Ben: 01:02:00

Dr. Ben.

Kyle: 01:02:01

Love y'.

Speaker D: 01:02:01

All.

Dr. Ben: 01:02:03

Movie Wars.