Episode 61

full
Published on:

12th Dec 2024

Falling Down

This episode dives deep into the film "Falling Down," exploring its relevance and impact more than three decades after its release. Hosts Kyle, Seth, and returning guest Mariana Brown discuss the film's portrayal of societal frustrations and the character's descent into chaos as he grapples with feelings of displacement in a rapidly changing world. They reflect on how the film captures the essence of the American experience, particularly in the context of the 1990s and how it resonates with contemporary issues. The conversation also touches on the film's cinematography, directing, and the performances of Michael Douglas and Robert Duvall, highlighting their ability to convey complex emotions in a gritty Los Angeles setting. As they navigate the themes of alienation, societal expectations, and the absurdity of modern life, they conclude that "Falling Down" remains a significant commentary on the human condition, ultimately awarding it a "whammy burger."

A riveting conversation unfolds as hosts Kyle and Seth are joined by Nashville comedian Mariana Brown to dissect the complexities of the film "Falling Down". The trio dives deep into the film's exploration of the disillusionment felt by the everyman in a rapidly changing society, particularly in the context of Los Angeles in the early 90s. The discussion touches on how the protagonist, played by Michael Douglas, navigates a world that seems to alienate and frustrate him, leading to his explosive outbursts. The hosts reflect on their own experiences with the film, noting its relevance in today's world, where feelings of anger and helplessness can still resonate strongly. They examine the cultural and social commentary embedded in the film, drawing parallels to modern-day life and the pressures faced by individuals in a capitalist society.

As the conversation progresses, the comedic undertones of the film are explored, with Mariana sharing her perspective on the absurdity of the situations portrayed. The hosts analyze the cinematography and production choices made by director Joel Schumacher, praising how the film's gritty aesthetic amplifies the emotional turmoil of its characters. The dialogue of the film is dissected as well, with a focus on how the characters' interactions reflect broader societal themes such as isolation and desperation. The episode culminates in a spirited debate about whether the film could be remade in today's context, with all three hosts agreeing on its timeless nature and the powerful messages it conveys about the human condition.

Takeaways:

  • The podcast discusses the film 'Falling Down', highlighting its cultural commentary on frustration and societal pressures.
  • Hosts reflect on how the film's representation of LA feels relevant and timely in today's world.
  • Guests share personal experiences with the film, emphasizing its relatable themes of anger and alienation.
  • The discussion includes the impact of Michael Douglas's performance and the film's unique narrative style.
  • Listeners learn about the historical context of the film's creation during a time of economic change.
  • The episode concludes with a humorous take on the absurdity of modern life, comparing it to the film.
Transcript
Kyle:

Movie Wars.

Kyle:

Ladies and gentlemen, welcome back to the Movie wars podcast.

Kyle:

Mariana Brown is back, ladies and gentlemen.

Seth:

I'm here, too.

Kyle:

She crushed it so hard.

Kyle:

And Seth's here, too.

Kyle:

But you're on so many of them.

Kyle:

They know you.

Kyle:

We have a new friend here.

Kyle:

Come on, let's.

Seth:

You know, she was in the last one.

Seth:

Oh, my God.

Kyle:

I know.

Kyle:

Well, they don't know that.

Kyle:

We film him back to back.

Kyle:

It's a different day.

Seth:

Hey, I love same clothes.

Kyle:

No.

Kyle:

So glad.

Kyle:

Seth.

Kyle:

So glad you're here.

Kyle:

He's mad that I missed his birthday party.

Seth:

A little bit.

Seth:

Just a little salty.

Mariana:

I'm gonna make invite me.

Mariana:

So.

Seth:

I'm sorry.

Seth:

I didn't know.

Seth:

I didn't know you'd come.

Mariana:

I wouldn't.

Mariana:

I wouldn't have, actually.

Mariana:

So I just like being invited.

Kyle:

This is.

Kyle:

So we're doing Falling down here, and I've wanted to cover this movie for a long time.

Kyle:

And it's kind of funny when, like, with the age of the Internet, sometimes you see some of your favorite movies from childhood resurface in memes and stuff.

Kyle:

And all of a sudden, I started seeing these Michael Douglas falling down memes, and it reminded me how much I loved it.

Kyle:

This is one of those movies that.

Kyle:

And I'm sure we all have these.

Kyle:

I.

Kyle:

My parents, you know, crazy bipolar alcoholics, which sucked.

Kyle:

But I got to watch whatever I wanted, so if you want to be positive.

Kyle:

And I watched this movie a lot as a kid.

Kyle:

But what's funny is, like, I obviously could not really comprehend.

Kyle:

Now I got 37 years of life behind me, lots of corporate disgruntlement in my life.

Kyle:

And I watched this.

Kyle:

This time, I'm like, oh, I get it, buddy.

Kyle:

Life sucks, bro.

Seth:

Yeah.

Kyle:

Yeah.

Mariana:

This guy's my hero.

Kyle:

Yes.

Kyle:

Yes.

Kyle:

And, you know, and there's a lot of background setting to this movie.

Kyle:

You know, this is a post Cold War.

Kyle:

It's based on.

Kyle:

And we'll get to this with the randos, but there was this.

Kyle:

This layoff of defense workers after the Cold War.

Kyle:

Like, we had no need for the development of weapons that we were.

Kyle:

So there was a lot of people that were getting displaced from work.

Kyle:

And there was, like, there was defense worker strikes in Los Angeles.

Kyle:

And so this is based on a very real thing that happened.

Kyle:

And that's where the writer of the screenplay actually got his.

Kyle:

The inspiration for this.

Kyle:

So it's very much based in reality.

Kyle:

And Michael Douglas, to me, is so interesting in this because, you know, he was a sex icon.

Kyle:

Yeah.

Kyle:

You know, the long hair and he even talks about how he was very reluctant to cut his hair when his.

Seth:

Dad was a sex icon.

Kyle:

Yes.

Seth:

Like, literally in the 50s, his dad was like, the guy.

Kyle:

Yeah.

Kyle:

And when you tell people that that Douglas first was a producer and that his biggest claim to fame was almost cleaning.

Kyle:

Or didn't he get to all five of the main Oscars for One Flew over the Cuckoo's Nest as a producer?

Seth:

Maybe.

Kyle:

I think they did.

Kyle:

They're one of the few films they got nominated for.

Kyle:

All five?

Kyle:

I can't remember if it got all five, but, you know, he produced that.

Kyle:

And so he's the one accepting the Oscar.

Seth:

Yeah.

Kyle:

For One Flew over the.

Kyle:

Like, Michael Douglas has this insane career.

Kyle:

Totally a daddy's boy, though.

Kyle:

I'm just kidding.

Kyle:

I don't know.

Kyle:

kind of weird watching it in:

Kyle:

Like, this dude.

Kyle:

This dude's pissed off before the Internet.

Seth:

Yeah.

Mariana:

Oh, my God.

Kyle:

This is what happens when you can't tweet your shit.

Seth:

Yeah.

Seth:

And you actually go, Twitter is important.

Kyle:

Yeah, we need Twitter for the psychos out there.

Mariana:

Yeah.

Mariana:

This is a guy who can't vent.

Seth:

Yeah.

Kyle:

Yeah.

Kyle:

How did you two experience this film?

Seth:

I'd never seen it before this.

Kyle:

Okay.

Seth:

Thoroughly enjoyed it.

Seth:

I literally, the whole time I'm watching it, and my favorite thing is how every time something happens, he literally levels up his weapon and it literally reminded me of, like, what?

Seth:

This would be the coolest video game ever.

Seth:

No context.

Seth:

You just come in as this dude in his car going to work, and then every time you beat the shit out of someone, you take their weapon and you upgrade the whole movie.

Kyle:

Yes.

Mariana:

Sims.

Seth:

Yeah, yeah, the Sims.

Seth:

But violence.

Mariana:

Yes.

Seth:

So I thoroughly enjoyed it.

Kyle:

Love it.

Seth:

Yeah.

Mariana:

I actually.

Mariana:

It's funny, my husband, who's not like a movie person, he had watched it before and he was like, oh, yeah, I want to watch that with you.

Mariana:

And I was like, all right.

Mariana:

This is like the second movie we've watched together in 30 years.

Mariana:

And I loved it.

Mariana:

This, I've never related to a character so much seriously, as this guy.

Mariana:

Especially when he just leaves this car at the beginning.

Mariana:

I'm like, that was every day I ever came home from my day job.

Mariana:

I was like, yeah, let's just burn it down.

Seth:

Yeah, yeah, he is.

Mariana:

He's my spirit animal.

Kyle:

He's sweaty and he's pissed.

Kyle:

Yeah, yeah.

Mariana:

And he's wearing.

Mariana:

And he's wearing a pocket protector and a short sleeve button down.

Mariana:

That shouldn't Exist.

Seth:

I felt like disgustingly hot while watching the movie.

Seth:

That's how well it made you feel.

Seth:

The summer heat of la.

Seth:

Like, oh, my God.

Kyle:

And it's kind of funny.

Kyle:

We're doing two bat.

Kyle:

We did drive before.

Kyle:

We were doing two back to back LA films.

Kyle:

Two very different interpretations of la.

Seth:

Yes.

Kyle:

One makes you want to move there.

Kyle:

One makes you never want to go there.

Mariana:

Oh, yeah.

Mariana:

For real.

Kyle:

Yeah.

Seth:

Oh, my God.

Seth:

But yeah, it was.

Seth:

I was not.

Seth:

I had no idea what to expect.

Seth:

I didn't look at anything before I watched it.

Seth:

And.

Seth:

And it delivered.

Seth:

It delivered very well.

Seth:

Very shocking for Joel Schumacher.

Kyle:

Yes.

Kyle:

And I was fixing.

Kyle:

That's a great segue.

Kyle:

I was gonna go.

Kyle:

I'm just looking at his.

Kyle:

I mean, he's has so many films.

Kyle:

This is a guy that's all over the place.

Seth:

I mean, he did rip Joel Schumacher.

Seth:

By the way, we love you and we miss you.

Kyle:

I know.

Kyle:

Yeah.

Kyle:

I mean, obviously you can make fun of.

Kyle:

I liked Batman Forever, but then Batman and Robin was awful.

Kyle:

Complete dumpster fire.

Kyle:

But He Also, number 23 is kind of this artsy like coming out party for Jim Carrey as an actor.

Mariana:

That's another one that I got for a dollar at Walmart on a dvd.

Kyle:

Yes.

Kyle:

I miss.

Kyle:

Yeah, you miss the dollar bin.

Mariana:

Oh, God, great films.

Kyle:

Now it's the Amazon bin.

Kyle:

And they're like $10.

Seth:

I will say it always shocks me to remember that he directed Phantom of the Opera.

Seth:

Like, because that is so outside of everything he's ever done.

Kyle:

Yeah.

Seth:

And it's.

Seth:

It's in my opinion, quite possibly his best movie.

Kyle:

Yeah.

Kyle:

And he has a movie in my top 50, which is lost Boys.

Kyle:

Oh, right.

Kyle:

My.

Kyle:

I think it's the best vampire movie.

Kyle:

But it's also just to me is like ultimate 80s.

Seth:

I still haven't seen that.

Kyle:

Oh, bro.

Seth:

Yeah, Put on the list.

Seth:

Good.

Kyle:

The 4K is $10 on Amazon, but buy it somewhere else.

Kyle:

Fuck Amazon.

Kyle:

I used to work there.

Seth:

Please sponsor us.

Mariana:

Yeah, same.

Mariana:

I used to work there too.

Kyle:

Fuck them.

Kyle:

Go.

Kyle:

Go back to Walmart.

Kyle:

So, yeah, so yeah, Joel Schumacher, rip.

Kyle:

But you know, has a lot of crazy and that this is.

Kyle:

But this movie just kind of sticks out of the filmography.

Kyle:

It's very.

Kyle:

Feels very real.

Kyle:

It feels like a very, like relatable thing.

Seth:

So very stripped down.

Kyle:

Yes.

Seth:

Yeah.

Kyle:

Yes.

Kyle:

So before we get to the questions, if you have a fan out there, Michael Douglas, you know, always your grandma, always your grandma.

Seth:

And if she's not a fan of Michael Douglas, she's definitely a fan of Kirk Douglas.

Seth:

So either way.

Kyle:

Yeah.

Seth:

The Douglas boys.

Kyle:

Yeah.

Seth:

Papa and Son.

Kyle:

Or Doug the Show Doug.

Kyle:

Someone out there.

Kyle:

Someone out there needs this podcast.

Kyle:

It's going to save their life.

Kyle:

It saved my life.

Kyle:

It saved all these folks life.

Kyle:

Share this podcast if you're wondering about.

Seth:

The light, Harrison Ford is making another appearance.

Seth:

He might actually come on camera today.

Seth:

We don't know, but that is my cat.

Seth:

For those of you wondering, that's why there's light going around the fourth member.

Seth:

Yeah.

Kyle:

All right.

Kyle:

Do you think the questions.

Kyle:

Do you think fast food places strongly reconsidered their breakfast service times after seeing this movie?

Seth:

I mean, when did this movie come out?

Kyle:

1993.

Seth:

Okay.

Seth:

Yeah.

Seth:

It was a while before McDonald's ended up doing all day breakfast.

Seth:

And then they took it away.

Seth:

You bastards bring back all day breakfast.

Kyle:

Yeah.

Seth:

Sonic is so good for that.

Seth:

Even though their breakfast is vastly under, under par.

Seth:

But, yeah, I have a feeling a lot of them did.

Seth:

I have a feeling a lot of them saw this and we're just like, all right, we've got a.

Seth:

We gotta be clear on.

Seth:

Cause I think a lot of them switch to 11 on the weekends.

Kyle:

Yeah.

Kyle:

This is how bad it can get.

Seth:

Yeah.

Mariana:

They're like, he does have a point, actually.

Seth:

So there should be a grace period, like a five minute after it changes.

Seth:

Grace period where you're like, okay, we still have some biscuits, fine.

Mariana:

I think if they still have any of it ready, you should be able to buy it till it's gone.

Seth:

Yeah.

Seth:

Right.

Kyle:

Yeah.

Mariana:

You're going to make somebody's day.

Seth:

Actually, when I went to Orlando a couple of weeks ago for my birthday, when I hit the Atlanta airport, I immediately was like, I just need to get something in my stomach.

Seth:

And I ran over to Chick Fil A.

Seth:

I watched the menu change from breakfast to lunch as I was in line, and I was so excited to get a chicken biscuit.

Seth:

And then out of nowhere, just switched to lunch.

Seth:

And I kind of felt his anger before I'd even seen the movie.

Seth:

I felt his anger in that moment and I was just like, fuck this.

Kyle:

Yeah.

Kyle:

I mean, Taco Bell is the ultimate example of this.

Kyle:

Everything they invent is the same shit, different wrapper.

Seth:

Yeah, absolutely.

Kyle:

Like, oh, beef and a corn tortilla.

Kyle:

Beef and two tortillas.

Kyle:

Yeah, beef and three.

Kyle:

It's just like, let's fold the tortilla different way.

Seth:

It's a bacon and a taco waffle.

Kyle:

Yeah, it's.

Kyle:

It's.

Kyle:

It's a meat, a car barb and some other shit.

Seth:

Yeah.

Mariana:

Yeah.

Kyle:

Whether or not it's breakfast or lunch, just do it.

Seth:

Whether or not it's actual meat.

Kyle:

Yeah.

Seth:

You never know.

Kyle:

Who knows?

Kyle:

Who cares.

Mariana:

Well, also, it's.

Mariana:

It's like a great example of a rule that doesn't matter, that, like, people enforce for no reason.

Mariana:

You know, it just.

Mariana:

That's the stuff that makes you so angry about life.

Mariana:

You're like, but why?

Seth:

Yeah.

Mariana:

And not to mention when she.

Mariana:

When he first brings up the gun and she's gonna do what he says, you know, she just, like, grabs something from right there.

Mariana:

And I'm like, so it was right there and you couldn't give it to him?

Kyle:

Yeah.

Seth:

Well, hold on.

Seth:

Did she hand him a burger?

Seth:

Because I thought.

Seth:

I thought at that point he was like, never mind.

Seth:

I'll have lunch.

Seth:

She gave him the burger.

Mariana:

So she grabs the.

Mariana:

So I was very paying attention to the moment.

Seth:

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Mariana:

So she grabs this, and then he goes, no, I would like a burger.

Mariana:

And then she grabs something else.

Seth:

Oh, yeah, you guys.

Mariana:

And that burger looks horrible.

Seth:

Yeah.

Mariana:

It probably still looks the same.

Mariana:

Oh, probably.

Seth:

Yeah.

Mariana:

That's in a museum somewhere.

Seth:

Yeah.

Kyle:

I love that he called out the sad, squashed nature of it, because that's so real.

Mariana:

And that kid.

Mariana:

I loved the kid just being like, yeah, that.

Seth:

Yeah, this movie should not have been as funny as it was.

Seth:

Yeah, it was.

Seth:

So.

Seth:

But everyone was so dry about the.

Seth:

The hilarious nature of what was going on with this movie.

Seth:

I loved it.

Kyle:

Yeah.

Kyle:

Well, and I think it had to be in the commentary.

Kyle:

Joel did describe it as somewhat of a black comedy.

Seth:

Yeah.

Kyle:

Um, not.

Kyle:

Not in the deepest sense.

Kyle:

But, like, the truth is that even the.

Seth:

The.

Kyle:

I love what you said, because the idea of this breakfast menu, it's so arbitrary.

Kyle:

But it also, like, you know, it's like you start to realize the power structures in our life that can drive someone to a point to where he's at as much as being laid off from the place, because, you know, his whole thing is, I protected this country, and when they didn't need me, they were done.

Seth:

Yeah.

Kyle:

And now this guy could be considered a hero.

Kyle:

And now he's being subjected to the breakfast menu time.

Kyle:

And it's just, like, these arbitrary things that are in life that you could remove, but society won't allow you to move.

Kyle:

And for that reason, people go insane, kill themselves, depression, all that medication just to cope with the daily life, because we are just, like, restricted out of our minds.

Seth:

Yeah.

Kyle:

So there's a very real, like.

Kyle:

Even though it's funny and it's a breakfast scene.

Kyle:

It is very much like shit.

Kyle:

Like, I love what you said.

Kyle:

It's like, you could just not do this and just have breakfast.

Mariana:

Oh, sorry.

Seth:

Go ahead.

Mariana:

Well, I used to manage a retail shop at Buffalo Exchange.

Mariana:

Like, you know, it's thrift stuff.

Mariana:

There shouldn't be 600 rules.

Mariana:

We should be able to make somebody's day if they're having a bad day.

Mariana:

And it's just so easy.

Mariana:

And what they don't realize is, like, you do have some power.

Mariana:

There are some things they give you to, like a rabbit out of a hat to make somebody's day.

Mariana:

You know, like, they're freaking out.

Mariana:

So I am just kind of like, it's annoying that you have to push the other person to a point to where they'll act like a human.

Mariana:

And you're like, why couldn't you just have done that at the beginning?

Seth:

Exactly.

Seth:

Yeah, exactly.

Mariana:

Why are we doing that?

Mariana:

Why are we all pretending like this isn't a simulation?

Kyle:

Yeah, Yeah.

Seth:

I.

Seth:

I'm reminded of a meme that I saw recently that was like, capitalism us so bad that all of the movies that were like horror movies of the 90s were just about how awful middle class life is.

Seth:

And that's.

Seth:

I feel like this fits perfectly into that genre.

Seth:

I think it's.

Seth:

I think Fight Club kind of solidified that genre.

Seth:

I think this is better than Fight Club as far as the story that's told.

Kyle:

Yes.

Seth:

Also way less douchey.

Seth:

People love this movie.

Seth:

So.

Kyle:

Yeah, it's a little more relatable, more realistic.

Kyle:

Yeah.

Seth:

Not a red flag if it's in your top 25.

Mariana:

Did it remind either of you of the movie?

Seth:

Beau is Afraid I haven't seen that yet.

Kyle:

I mean, I actually haven't seen it.

Kyle:

That's a 24, right?

Seth:

Yeah, it's Ari Aster who did Midsummer.

Kyle:

Oh, yeah.

Mariana:

Of course I'm going to bring it up.

Kyle:

Of course, of course.

Kyle:

Of course.

Mariana:

But.

Mariana:

Or did you watch Schenectady, New York?

Kyle:

No.

Mariana:

Okay.

Mariana:

So this movie actually reminds me of a really pared down version of both of those.

Mariana:

So I recommend those because they're kind of this, like, stream of consciousness.

Mariana:

Like, one thing happens and then it leads to another thing, and then it leads to another thing and you're like, what's happening?

Seth:

Yeah.

Mariana:

You know, you're on board.

Seth:

Well, that's something that's been a theme for a lot of the really good movies that we've been watching is a lot of them are the story unfolds.

Seth:

You don't have Unnecessary background.

Seth:

Sometimes you don't have any background.

Seth:

Sometimes the entire movie takes place completely within the confines of this is the beginning, this is the end.

Seth:

It's a straightforward narrative.

Seth:

There's no flashbacks.

Seth:

There's no jumping back and forth and weird timelines and shit.

Seth:

And that tends to be some of my favorite movies, is where the story is.

Seth:

You start with it here, and then you unfold it and there's a lot more.

Seth:

And then you unfold it and there's a lot more, and everything just continues to happen, but you're never questioning where you're at in the story.

Seth:

And I think this beautifully does that.

Kyle:

Yeah.

Kyle:

I mean, this literally takes place over the course of a day.

Seth:

Yeah.

Kyle:

I mean, it's just like one day in the life.

Seth:

Like six hours almost.

Kyle:

Yeah.

Seth:

Yeah.

Seth:

It's a very confined timeline.

Seth:

I like that instead of using flashbacks, they use him watching the videotapes.

Kyle:

I love that.

Seth:

I think that was a really cool linear narrative mood to kind of make it feel like you're jumping outside of the typical narrative structure.

Kyle:

I love that.

Kyle:

Yeah, I agree.

Mariana:

I know it's not a bottle episode, but it kind of reminded me of a bottle episode.

Seth:

What do you mean by bottle episode?

Mariana:

Bottle episode is like an episode of television that happens in one room with the whole cast inside.

Seth:

Oh, okay.

Mariana:

Like I dreamed of genie.

Mariana:

Like, if you were just in the.

Mariana:

The genie bottle the whole time.

Seth:

That makes sense.

Mariana:

Those are always my favorite movies.

Mariana:

It's a movie that happens.

Mariana:

It's either over the course of one day or something like that, or like a really small cast in a small situation.

Mariana:

And those are.

Mariana:

I used.

Mariana:

I went through a whole few years where that's all I would watch.

Seth:

Yeah.

Kyle:

Interesting.

Seth:

No, I get that.

Seth:

I like.

Seth:

I like them a lot, too.

Mariana:

Yeah.

Mariana:

So, yeah, a lot of horror movies happened in one room.

Seth:

Yeah.

Seth:

Yeah.

Mariana:

Sorry.

Mariana:

Sidetracked especially.

Kyle:

That won the room.

Mariana:

I'm just kidding.

Seth:

That was a horror production, not a horror movie.

Kyle:

Next question.

Kyle:

Is this nerd really hard to track down this?

Seth:

I mean, when your only description is white shirt and a tie?

Kyle:

Yeah, I know it's not the age of the Internet.

Kyle:

It's way before the Internet.

Kyle:

But this guy's shooting people and breaking shit and robbing.

Kyle:

Or not robbing, but breaking.

Kyle:

Like, smashing up stores and.

Seth:

I mean, he steals some shit.

Seth:

Yeah.

Kyle:

This dude goes.

Kyle:

He goes unnoticed.

Kyle:

Like, they can't find him anywhere.

Kyle:

Is it because we got the worst cop in Robert Duvall?

Kyle:

Pentagrass.

Kyle:

What a horrible.

Kyle:

I know he's retiring, but what a slouch I would hope none of my family members get murdered and he's in charge of finding out.

Kyle:

It's like, fuck, give me a different guy.

Seth:

I mean, he kept trying, and everyone else kept getting in his way.

Seth:

So I wouldn't say it's his fault.

Seth:

I'd say it's all of his other.

Seth:

Like, the dude that he punched, I think it's partially his fau.

Kyle:

Also, can we just talk about that guy, Bill Paxton ripoff.

Kyle:

Was he trying to pretend to be Bill Paxton from Predator 2?

Kyle:

Aliens?

Kyle:

He was literally, like, every.

Kyle:

Like, really, like, a True Lies.

Kyle:

You know, Bill Paxton used to, like.

Kyle:

He eventually became, like, a very, like, refined actor.

Kyle:

Like, frailty.

Seth:

Yeah.

Kyle:

But he had an archetype in the late 80s, early 90s where he was like, the really?

Kyle:

Like, whoa.

Kyle:

Every movie over, man.

Seth:

Yeah.

Kyle:

Yes.

Kyle:

And then Predator 2, it was like, all right, let's dance.

Kyle:

You know, this is like.

Kyle:

He's like.

Seth:

I think when he got Apollo 13 is when he started changing and was like, oh, no, I could be, like, a serious actor.

Kyle:

Yeah.

Kyle:

And then Tombstone.

Kyle:

Yeah.

Kyle:

Like, he finally was like, okay, I can finally act.

Kyle:

But, yeah, this guy is like.

Mariana:

He.

Kyle:

He's like, if.

Kyle:

If.

Kyle:

If.

Kyle:

This is gonna sound so stupid.

Kyle:

If Bill Paxton was a latte, this guy is just the foam.

Seth:

Yeah, He's.

Kyle:

He's the worst chair couture.

Kyle:

He's like, Bill Paxton.

Kyle:

Light discount.

Kyle:

Bill Paxton.

Seth:

Yeah.

Mariana:

Diet.

Seth:

Not even from Dollar General.

Seth:

Like, Dollar Tree.

Kyle:

Yeah.

Kyle:

What is this guy doing?

Kyle:

Made you cake.

Kyle:

What's going on?

Kyle:

Pet grass is your last day.

Kyle:

It's like, do you talk normal ever?

Kyle:

Is this, like, when someone calls you?

Kyle:

It's like, hey, your mom did.

Kyle:

Oh, no.

Kyle:

Oh, my Bill Paxton impression.

Kyle:

Horrible.

Kyle:

Of course it was 93.

Seth:

Yeah.

Kyle:

I mean, and if you had, like, a detective movie, maybe they just felt like they.

Kyle:

We couldn't get Bill Paxton, so, like, we got a mannequin version.

Seth:

What's funny to me is I would guarantee you he acted different on set than he did when he did the ADR, because up until maybe 15 years ago, 95% of the dialogue in almost every single movie was ADR.

Seth:

And a lot of directors would call that their second shot at acting in the movie.

Seth:

And I feel like a lot of actors, especially in that era of, like, the 80s through the 90s, tended to overact their second try for it.

Kyle:

Yeah.

Seth:

So I have a feeling that he.

Seth:

He.

Seth:

You know, mannerisms were still big, but I have a very strong feeling that he was a little different on set than he was when he finally Got in the recording booth.

Kyle:

Yes.

Kyle:

Yeah, absolutely.

Kyle:

You'd have to be.

Kyle:

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Kyle:

Rando, rando, randos.

Kyle:

Yes, you did.

Kyle:

It feels good, right?

Kyle:

It got weird.

Kyle:

I like it.

Kyle:

What do you think about that?

Kyle:

Harrison Ford just staring at me.

Kyle:

This.

Kyle:

This film didn't go without protest, so the LA Times wrote seven hit pieces attacking this film.

Kyle:

Yeah.

Kyle:

Because.

Kyle:

Because the actual defense workers that were protesting after they were laid off were.

Kyle:

They felt that it portrayed them in a negative light.

Kyle:

Oh, really?

Mariana:

He was a hero to me.

Kyle:

Yeah, totally.

Kyle:

He's killing Nazis and.

Kyle:

Yeah, yeah.

Kyle:

And then also.

Kyle:

But it also attracted a lot of protests from the Korean grocer associations of la.

Mariana:

But that was such a short amount of the film.

Kyle:

And, like, they were pissed, though.

Mariana:

I get it.

Mariana:

I mean, it's not like this best moment.

Mariana:

And, like, that's not the reason he.

Seth:

Still paid for the coke.

Kyle:

Yeah.

Kyle:

Yeah.

Mariana:

Well, that was what was so funny, when the cops just like, wait, he.

Mariana:

So he.

Mariana:

He paid?

Seth:

Yeah.

Seth:

You.

Mariana:

He didn't steal anything.

Mariana:

He's like, yeah, he just beat stuff up in my store.

Mariana:

That costs a lot.

Mariana:

I mean, it is a crime.

Kyle:

Yeah.

Seth:

Vandalism.

Mariana:

Not anymore, though.

Seth:

Yeah.

Seth:

At least in la.

Mariana:

Yeah.

Mariana:

No, I mean, I think you can just do that now.

Mariana:

And I don't think anybody's going to put you in jail.

Mariana:

I mean, my car got stolen and nothing happened, of course.

Mariana:

Yeah.

Kyle:

Oh, really?

Mariana:

Yeah.

Kyle:

Oh, wow.

Mariana:

It got stolen on Christmas Day last year, and then it was gone for six months.

Mariana:

They found it that day.

Mariana:

News flash.

Mariana:

Nothing happens if you're under 18 and you steal a car.

Mariana:

I shouldn't be telling anybody that.

Mariana:

If I stole a car, I'd be in jail.

Kyle:

Was this in Nashville?

Mariana:

Yeah.

Kyle:

Where'd it get stolen from?

Mariana:

My house.

Kyle:

Oh, wow.

Seth:

Damn.

Kyle:

Damn.

Mariana:

It's okay.

Kyle:

I was kind of hoping he said Lowe's.

Mariana:

No, they stole a bunch from Lowe's, too.

Mariana:

But that's why I was thinking.

Mariana:

I'm like, well, you know, at least this guy's just.

Mariana:

I mean, he didn't get.

Mariana:

I don't think he got hurt.

Mariana:

I don't think he beat him up.

Mariana:

No, Douglas.

Seth:

He pushed him down, but he didn't push him down.

Mariana:

But then he just beat up the stuff in his store.

Mariana:

So I was like, I don't even know if that's a crime.

Kyle:

Did y'all laugh when I.

Kyle:

When he was Talking about how 85 cents was too much for a Coke?

Seth:

Yes.

Kyle:

I was like, damn.

Seth:

And he's right.

Mariana:

In LA, it's still too much for a Coke.

Kyle:

Yeah.

Seth:

50 cents.

Seth:

That's the good place.

Mariana:

Yeah.

Kyle:

Yeah, it really is.

Seth:

Bring it back.

Seth:

Coke, 50 cents.

Mariana:

Yeah, well, don't.

Mariana:

I mean, I'm not.

Mariana:

Take the poison out.

Mariana:

I can't have Coke.

Mariana:

It gives me migraines.

Kyle:

Yeah, I don't drink.

Kyle:

I don't drink that shit.

Kyle:

Yeah, I drink bourbon.

Seth:

I drink actual poison.

Kyle:

Actual poison.

Mariana:

That's safe poison, so.

Kyle:

Makes my liver weep.

Kyle:

It's hard to imagine anyone but Michael Douglas playing this role.

Kyle:

Yeah, I love that.

Kyle:

His name is Bill Foster, but in the credits, his name is Defense.

Kyle:

Yeah, I love that.

Kyle:

Yeah.

Kyle:

And that's his license plate, like, so.

Kyle:

Well done.

Seth:

Yeah.

Kyle:

But there was a ton of names attached to this before Douglas was attached to it, so this is crazy.

Kyle:

Harrison Ford, Jack Nicholson, Dustin Hoffman, Robert De Niro, Robin Williams, and Jeff Bridges.

Seth:

So in my opinion, as great as the job as he did, every single one of them other than Jeff Bridges, I could see in that role.

Kyle:

Yeah.

Kyle:

So he's always the dude to me.

Seth:

Yeah.

Seth:

Well, for me, he's always Flynn from Tron.

Kyle:

Oh, yeah.

Mariana:

Oh, yeah, Good point.

Seth:

Yeah.

Kyle:

He's always Rooster from True Grit to me.

Kyle:

What is he to you?

Mariana:

He's the old man from the old man.

Kyle:

He's always the old man.

Seth:

But other than him, I easily could have said seen any of them playing that role.

Kyle:

Yeah.

Seth:

So, I mean, it makes sense.

Seth:

But I do think ultimately they nailed it with him.

Mariana:

Robin Williams would have been a fun choice, though.

Mariana:

I always love him in Serious Stuff.

Seth:

Yeah.

Kyle:

Yeah.

Kyle:

After.

Kyle:

After I saw him in Insomnia with Al Pacino, I always was like, I want to see Robin Williams.

Kyle:

And then phone.

Kyle:

What is it, One hour photo.

Mariana:

Oh, yeah.

Seth:

His.

Seth:

His final movie was actually filmed here, and it was a drama.

Kyle:

Really?

Mariana:

Yeah.

Seth:

Y'all keep talking and I'll find out.

Mariana:

Okay.

Mariana:

I love Robin.

Mariana:

I could see all of those people doing this in a different way.

Mariana:

But, you know, this is Michael Douglas's favorite film he ever did.

Kyle:

Yeah, that's my next rando.

Kyle:

Go ahead.

Seth:

Oh, please.

Mariana:

Maybe I read it on your paper, but I also read the Wikipedia, but.

Mariana:

And Kirk Douglas's favorite movie of his, which I think is really interesting because it's such a low key, weird movie.

Kyle:

Yeah.

Seth:

Boulevard, that was Robin Williams last movie that he filmed.

Seth:

It wasn't the last one that came out, but it was the last one he was on set for.

Kyle:

Interesting.

Seth:

And that was shot here and premiered at the Nashville Film Festival.

Kyle:

Huh.

Seth:

Yeah.

Kyle:

I wonder what.

Kyle:

What part of Nashville All Over.

Kyle:

Really?

Seth:

Yeah.

Kyle:

That's awesome.

Kyle:

Yeah.

Kyle:

And so that's I love that.

Kyle:

That this is.

Kyle:

You know, and he has so many iconic characters.

Kyle:

Gordon Gekko.

Kyle:

Yeah.

Kyle:

And then Basic Instinct and all that stuff.

Kyle:

Like.

Kyle:

And then he goes and does this.

Mariana:

Yeah, yeah.

Kyle:

And so back to the haircut.

Kyle:

Like, he was really reluctant because that was kind of his look.

Kyle:

And he even had it.

Kyle:

When you see him accepting the Oscar for One Flew over the Cuckoo's Nest, he has this long hair, and he was really.

Kyle:

He really didn't want to cut it.

Kyle:

But Schumacher, his hairdresser, said this guy needs to, like, have a militant.

Seth:

Yeah.

Kyle:

50S haircut.

Seth:

Yeah.

Kyle:

He needs.

Kyle:

The goal was.

Kyle:

And this is what Schumacher says.

Kyle:

He needed to look like he was transported from a different time.

Seth:

Yeah.

Kyle:

to look like he was from the:

Mariana:

Yeah, he.

Mariana:

And he did.

Mariana:

That was.

Mariana:

That really sold it.

Seth:

I mean, that.

Seth:

Especially on screen, that kind of was the.

Seth:

The portrayal of, like, the nerd archetype at that time was still stuck in the 50s, stuck in the 60s with the.

Seth:

The pocket protector and the glasses and.

Seth:

Yeah.

Seth:

The military kind of haircut.

Seth:

So that makes a lot of sense.

Kyle:

Yeah.

Seth:

Yeah.

Kyle:

And then lastly, this was.

Kyle:

I kind of referenced this earlier, but this was based on the real events going on with the layoff.

Kyle:

So the screenwriter that originally wrote it wrote it based on the.

Kyle:

The layoffs that were happening with these defense workers that were kind of left over from the Cold War.

Kyle:

So the screenwriter also wrote it based on.

Kyle:

There was apparently this trucker that got angry.

Mariana:

Yeah.

Kyle:

Yeah.

Kyle:

You read about this.

Kyle:

Yeah.

Kyle:

Got angry and started ramming cars off the highway.

Seth:

Oh, my God.

Kyle:

And.

Kyle:

And, like, was thinking, like, even though obviously that's not happening here.

Seth:

Yeah.

Kyle:

But he was thinking, like, this is, like, a person that all of a sudden, the rules don't apply.

Seth:

Yeah.

Kyle:

And, like.

Kyle:

And so that's what.

Kyle:

So between that and the defense worker thing, that's where the wheels got turning for this.

Seth:

Amazing.

Mariana:

How does that not happen more, though?

Mariana:

If I was an.

Mariana:

If I drove a truck for a living, I don't know how those.

Mariana:

They stay not crazy.

Seth:

Somehow the social contract is strong enough that we've just decided not to run everybody off the road.

Kyle:

Not.

Mariana:

Not with me.

Mariana:

I'd be a bad truck driver.

Mariana:

I always feel like that is like one of those jobs where I'm like, well, thank God you're doing it, not me.

Kyle:

Yeah.

Kyle:

And we're seeing.

Kyle:

I mean, we are seeing it kind of the social contract falling apart.

Seth:

Yeah.

Kyle:

All over the place.

Mariana:

Well, I was thinking.

Mariana:

I'm like, it's a good thing this movie didn't Just come out.

Mariana:

Because people would be like this.

Seth:

Yeah.

Mariana:

Like, I mean, there's only a few things in my life keeping me from losing my shit all the time.

Seth:

Absolutely.

Mariana:

If I didn't like own a house or, you know.

Seth:

Thank God for weed.

Mariana:

Yeah, yeah.

Kyle:

Thank God for coffee.

Seth:

Yeah.

Mariana:

Coffee and weed.

Kyle:

Coffee, yeah.

Kyle:

If this, if they were to remake this today, would he be like a content moderator from Meta or something?

Kyle:

Like, I keep you all safe because you don't see the car accidents with the brains exploding.

Mariana:

Yeah.

Mariana:

No, seriously, I used to work at TikTok and the content moderators have the most insane sense of humor because, like, oh, I'm sure their job's horrible and they're underpaid.

Seth:

It's, it's a.

Seth:

I mean, some of them literally have to find child porn to take it down.

Seth:

Like, how, how messed up would you.

Mariana:

Be all day though?

Kyle:

Yeah, yeah.

Seth:

Eight hours every single day.

Mariana:

So.

Kyle:

Yeah.

Kyle:

And one thing that kind of jogged loose, like, and this is not ahead earlier, but one thing, I think I'm obsessed with this site.

Kyle:

Like you guys ever have like ideas that you're obsessed with and you always look for in movies and art, you're always like, oh, I like one thing that stuck with me.

Kyle:

Taxi Drivers.

Kyle:

My second favorite movie of all time.

Kyle:

And one thing I always take from that movie is like you.

Kyle:

You saying Social Contract is what knocked this loose in my mind.

Kyle:

Like, obviously Pickle trying to kill a politician was horrible.

Seth:

Yeah.

Kyle:

Pickle killing a pimp that pimps out a 12 year old girl is good.

Seth:

Yeah.

Kyle:

But it's like same guy.

Seth:

Yeah.

Kyle:

So it's like we have these sliding scales of evil and it's moral relativity is what it is.

Kyle:

But it's like the thing about this is it's the same thing.

Kyle:

It's not the same movie as Taxi Driver, but it's the same concept.

Kyle:

It's like horrible.

Kyle:

The things he's doing to the Korean grocer.

Seth:

Yeah.

Kyle:

Kills a Nazi.

Kyle:

Okay.

Seth:

It's like kind of okay with it.

Kyle:

And I'm just.

Kyle:

It.

Kyle:

I love movies that make me think, like, what am I willing to accept, you know, if, if a good thing is done by a bad person.

Seth:

Yeah.

Kyle:

It's like, well, what's the level we're willing to accept?

Kyle:

And that's the Taxi Driver.

Kyle:

That's the movie that, that's the main question the Taxi Driver asks, you know, of Bickle, because he's unstable.

Kyle:

You don't want him out there in the population.

Kyle:

Yeah.

Kyle:

I killed a pimp though.

Kyle:

You know, turn a 12 year old girl into a sex lady.

Kyle:

We'll kill him.

Kyle:

That's good.

Kyle:

But no more politicians.

Seth:

The problem is, especially in falling down, is like, you can tell he's not doing it for any moral code at all.

Seth:

He is literally doing it.

Seth:

He wouldn't have touched the Nazi guy if he hadn't have kept going.

Seth:

If he had just shut up would have been fine.

Seth:

He would have let him live.

Seth:

But then it was because he got in his way.

Seth:

That's the only reason.

Seth:

The only reason he took out that gang banger was because he got in his way.

Seth:

That's it.

Seth:

So it's like, yeah, it's hard to as sympathetic as you feel when he does like kill a fucking Nazi at the same time.

Seth:

You're like, but he wasn't going to.

Kyle:

Yeah.

Mariana:

Yeah.

Seth:

So it's an interesting juxtaposition.

Mariana:

My favorite part of the whole movie is when he's like, I'm the bad guy.

Kyle:

Yes.

Mariana:

And I'm like, I feel so much for him then.

Mariana:

Because I'm like, exactly.

Mariana:

That's how I feel all the time.

Mariana:

And I go down these rabbit holes and I'm like, wait a minute, I'm.

Mariana:

I'm a bad person now.

Mariana:

And it's just like.

Mariana:

No, it's just stuff keeps happening to you and you react and it just gets to there at some point for everybody.

Kyle:

And that going back to the haircut rando about like he had to look like he was from the 50s.

Kyle:

Like, society changes around us and like, I know I'm only 37, but like, you know, I do have four kids and I feel really old sometimes because I'm just tired all the time.

Kyle:

And like, I have all these interests that I'm also doing at the same time with comedy and podcasts.

Kyle:

Like, I'm just very tired.

Seth:

Yeah.

Kyle:

And sometimes I look out the window, I'm just like, man, the world is just moving regardless.

Kyle:

Yeah, it's just like.

Kyle:

And it's transforming faster than ever.

Kyle:

And like the thing that, that works today and the thing that's funny today or the thing that's not funny today, like, tomorrow is a different day.

Kyle:

And this guy, that's the question he's posing.

Kyle:

And obviously he's a bad dude, but he is posing a real question, which is this world has moved on.

Kyle:

We're not in the Cold War anymore.

Kyle:

I'm not needed anymore.

Kyle:

And all of a sudden he's this old statue in a different world.

Kyle:

And so that is a real question we have to ask ourselves, especially in a techn.

Kyle:

Like, if this was made now it's like this world moves so fast.

Seth:

Yeah.

Kyle:

Yeah.

Mariana:

And it's to no fault of his own either.

Mariana:

That's the other thing is, like, he was probably good at what he did.

Seth:

Yeah.

Mariana:

And then at that point, it's like there's no.

Mariana:

Indeed.

Mariana:

There's no.

Mariana:

Like, he.

Mariana:

This is what he did.

Mariana:

He was trained for this.

Mariana:

He did this for how long?

Mariana:

Then what do you do?

Seth:

Yeah.

Mariana:

And it's like you should just kind of be able to retire at that point.

Mariana:

But nobody can do that in the middle class.

Mariana:

I mean, for.

Mariana:

For ages, that has not been a.

Mariana:

A thing people have been able to do.

Seth:

Yeah.

Mariana:

So I get it, man.

Mariana:

I want to.

Mariana:

I almost snapped watching the movie.

Kyle:

Yeah, yeah.

Kyle:

When yourself got yourself a breakfast sandwich.

Mariana:

I know.

Seth:

I feel like if it was made today, it wouldn't be a meta guy.

Seth:

It would be someone who got fired from, like, MySpace right before.

Mariana:

Yeah, that's a good point.

Mariana:

Well, but I guess then you could still pivot because you're in, like, you know, social media of some sort, I guess.

Seth:

But like, for me, it's like when you look at what MySpace was and how different all the other social medias had become from that, it still would be like that antiquated way of looking at.

Seth:

So, you know, it'd be like coming into a political campaign and being like, we need to get those newspaper ads out there.

Seth:

It's like, yeah, you could pivot, but if you're so specialized on one part of the process, it'd be hard to jump outside of that.

Mariana:

Can we just say, I wish MySpace would come back?

Seth:

Just.

Seth:

Timberlake owns it, so.

Mariana:

Justin Timberlake.

Mariana:

You used to be my old roommate's boss.

Mariana:

Because he was on.

Mariana:

He was your sound guy.

Mariana:

Please make MySpace a thing.

Mariana:

Why does he not do something with it?

Seth:

I was hallmates with his little brother.

Mariana:

I don't know.

Mariana:

Hallmates?

Seth:

Yeah, we were on the same floor.

Mariana:

Okay.

Mariana:

I was like, this must be a fancy college thing.

Mariana:

I don't know.

Kyle:

I was.

Seth:

We lived in the Great Hall.

Mariana:

We lived in the Great Hall.

Kyle:

I was Timberlake's bartender the night he got his dui.

Kyle:

I just don't have a Timberlake story.

Seth:

He goes to the Hamptons once a year to bar tend.

Seth:

One time.

Kyle:

Yeah, yeah.

Kyle:

I get him drunk off his ass and he drives a Yukon through a bunch of pedestrians.

Mariana:

Oh, my God.

Mariana:

Yeah.

Seth:

The world tour.

Kyle:

Yeah.

Kyle:

Side note, we have a lot of tangents here, but if you're that rich and drunk, why are you still driving?

Kyle:

You shouldn't be Driving.

Kyle:

Anyway, you're rich and drunk.

Seth:

Yeah.

Mariana:

Yeah.

Kyle:

Anyway, celebrities never listen to me.

Kyle:

Shall we fall down?

Seth:

Yeah, let's do.

Kyle:

Shall we get a water gun?

Kyle:

Shall we go to the.

Kyle:

Shall we get a whammy burger?

Seth:

There we go.

Kyle:

Let's.

Kyle:

Let's warm for positive.

Kyle:

Affirmative.

Kyle:

Yes, we love it.

Kyle:

Whammy burger.

Kyle:

And if it wasn't good, we didn't like.

Kyle:

I hated it falling down.

Kyle:

It fall.

Kyle:

It falls down.

Kyle:

So I like the way I'm obsessed with the whammy burger.

Kyle:

The word whammy top.

Kyle:

Bill Cass, Michael Douglas and Robert Duvall.

Seth:

Two powerhouses of post 70s acting.

Seth:

Like, they're just both incredible.

Seth:

Both killed their roles perfectly.

Seth:

That final confrontation scene is masterful.

Seth:

Like, that was.

Seth:

Not only was it just well filmed, but it was well directed.

Seth:

And the two of them, you just felt like you were watching this happen on the news.

Kyle:

Yeah.

Seth:

Like you didn't feel like you were watching a movie.

Seth:

You felt like some guy was there with a camera.

Seth:

Just watching two guys have a showdown.

Seth:

Insane.

Seth:

Definitely.

Seth:

Whammy burger for me.

Kyle:

Love it.

Mariana:

Yeah.

Mariana:

Also a whammy burger.

Mariana:

I just feel like, like you said, I'm just like, these are just two guys.

Mariana:

This is just a cop and a guy that snapped.

Mariana:

And I just feel like I'm in this microcosm of world.

Mariana:

Like, what are they gonna do next?

Mariana:

I can't remember any of the other things Robert Duvall was in, except that I know I've seen him a million times.

Mariana:

He's just been in too many movies.

Seth:

Have you seen Newsies?

Mariana:

No.

Seth:

Oh, yeah.

Seth:

He's William Randolph Hearst in that one.

Mariana:

Okay.

Mariana:

I would have remembered that.

Kyle:

Probably what I said, William.

Kyle:

I'm being dumb.

Kyle:

Sorry.

Kyle:

Please continue with your great thought.

Kyle:

That's not.

Kyle:

I'm not.

Mariana:

Not a great thought.

Mariana:

I just liked them.

Mariana:

I just liked him.

Seth:

No, he's great.

Mariana:

Whammy.

Kyle:

Whammy burger.

Kyle:

I go whammy burger, too.

Kyle:

I think it's very understated, too, the.

Kyle:

The.

Kyle:

The ending, confrontation.

Kyle:

Because it's the same.

Kyle:

It's the same scenario.

Kyle:

We find ourselves in, like, heat.

Seth:

Yeah.

Kyle:

Two sides.

Kyle:

It's a very popular mechanism in film, especially with.

Kyle:

When it's like detective, mystery type films.

Kyle:

It's like two.

Kyle:

Oftentimes the protagonist and antagonists are interchangeable.

Kyle:

They're two sides of the same coin.

Kyle:

They just happen to be on different paths.

Kyle:

You don't really realize it till the end.

Kyle:

But Duvall is a man who hasn't been faced with a lot of challenges since he got off.

Kyle:

He's become a Desk jockey.

Kyle:

And all of a sudden, he's on his last day of retirement and he feels the calling, and, like, he finds himself at this crossroads.

Kyle:

They're both at their moment.

Seth:

Yeah.

Kyle:

You know, and I think I love how they both deliver it.

Kyle:

Duvall is a guy that I just like, you know, because Apocalypse now is, like, a top 10 movie for me.

Kyle:

I'm obsessed, and I've studied that movie like crazy.

Kyle:

It's just so crazy seeing him still act in these later movies.

Kyle:

After being in the Godfather, after being in Apocalypse now, like, there's just.

Mariana:

This is what I mean.

Mariana:

He's in everything.

Seth:

Yeah.

Kyle:

There's just so much greatness.

Kyle:

I actually, his.

Kyle:

What is that movie?

Kyle:

The Disciple that came out or the Apostle.

Kyle:

Sorry, the Apostle.

Kyle:

Yeah, he's in.

Seth:

He's in the Apostle.

Kyle:

Yeah.

Seth:

With Michael Sheen, there's.

Kyle:

I think there's two apostles.

Seth:

Okay.

Kyle:

He plays a.

Kyle:

He plays a.

Kyle:

Like a pastor that murders somebody and becomes a preacher in a different town.

Kyle:

Like, he was a preacher where he came from.

Seth:

Very different movie.

Kyle:

Yeah, there's a ton.

Kyle:

There's, like, a whole bunch of apostle movies out there, right?

Kyle:

Yeah, yeah.

Kyle:

There's one called Apostle Paul.

Mariana:

Apostle Now.

Seth:

Yeah.

Kyle:

Apostle Lives Now.

Seth:

Oh, that's the second coming.

Kyle:

Yeah.

Kyle:

Well done.

Kyle:

To be a comedian.

Seth:

Oh.

Kyle:

Oh, that's an idea.

Kyle:

But I do love that final showdown.

Kyle:

And I think Douglas, he has such a.

Kyle:

It's.

Kyle:

It's funny to see him tamper down here because he.

Kyle:

He always.

Kyle:

He always has so much bravado.

Seth:

Oh, yeah.

Kyle:

But here he's broken down, but he's still snarky.

Kyle:

Yeah, he's got that snark, and you can't really get rid of it, and it works.

Kyle:

Like I.

Kyle:

The scene you pointed out, like, I'm the bad guy.

Kyle:

And then when he realizes when they're at the mansion with the pool and the family and, like, he's like, having these real life.

Kyle:

Those moments are where he's brilliant, where he's, like, all of a sudden being faced with himself and he doesn't ever question himself.

Kyle:

But these two very specific, specific scenes with the pool and the family and then the Nazi, where all of a sudden he's, like, being faced with this.

Kyle:

Like, how could I?

Kyle:

I was wrong.

Seth:

Yeah.

Kyle:

You know, I'm a man of a different era, and so it's.

Kyle:

It's.

Kyle:

The times did this to me.

Kyle:

And I think Douglas really plays it off.

Seth:

Yeah.

Kyle:

Yeah.

Seth:

Well, I feel like throughout the whole movie, he tries to balance doing something shitty with doing the right thing.

Seth:

So it's like in the.

Seth:

In the convenience store scene.

Seth:

Yeah.

Seth:

He destroys the entire store, but he still pays for the coke.

Seth:

In the scene where he's.

Seth:

He.

Seth:

Yeah.

Seth:

Runs into the pool house.

Seth:

He's running away from the cops after he's done some horrific shit.

Seth:

But he's like, oh, no, no, no, no, I'm not going to hurt you guys.

Seth:

Like, you guys are totally fine.

Seth:

You have nothing to do with this.

Seth:

Like, every time something happens, he tries to do something good to, like, make up for the shitty thing that he just did.

Kyle:

Yeah.

Mariana:

I love how he's always like, wait, you think I'm a thief?

Seth:

Yeah.

Mariana:

You think I'm going to hurt you?

Mariana:

And he's, like, waving around a gun and he's just like, yeah, this guy's really snapped.

Seth:

Shoots the ceiling.

Seth:

Whoa.

Seth:

That was an accident.

Mariana:

I know.

Mariana:

That was great.

Mariana:

That's how I would have a gun, honestly.

Seth:

Yeah.

Mariana:

I also like that the two main characters have, like, a very similar weird story, especially with the daughter.

Mariana:

Like, he does have a daughter, but he lost her.

Mariana:

And he did have a daughter, and he lost her.

Mariana:

And it's just like, you could have been the same person.

Kyle:

Yeah.

Mariana:

If you'd taken a different road.

Mariana:

And I just think, like, you know, this was back in the time when there just weren't a lot of options.

Seth:

Yeah.

Mariana:

I mean, he lived in la, sure.

Mariana:

But, like, it's not like you can just do anything.

Mariana:

I mean, that's like a lie they tell you when you kid.

Kyle:

Yeah.

Kyle:

And they did.

Seth:

Literally.

Kyle:

And both of them.

Kyle:

Society is done with them.

Kyle:

Yeah, yeah, yeah, I know.

Mariana:

And it's not their choice.

Seth:

Yeah.

Mariana:

Yeah.

Kyle:

He can make mattresses.

Kyle:

I was thinking.

Kyle:

I'm just thinking of all the things a defense and a defense guy could engineer.

Kyle:

I mean, sure, they could build something.

Seth:

Brakes, maybe.

Kyle:

Yeah, Maybe could build some brakes.

Kyle:

We need more breaks.

Mariana:

I got new brakes yesterday, so.

Seth:

There you go.

Mariana:

They're still around.

Kyle:

Yes.

Kyle:

You made it here.

Mariana:

I did.

Kyle:

You made it here and your car didn't get stolen.

Mariana:

I know.

Mariana:

I was gonna say they were 80, worn down.

Seth:

Oh, wow.

Kyle:

All right.

Kyle:

One to zero.

Kyle:

Whammy Burger.

Kyle:

Supporting cast.

Kyle:

And we got a lot of people to go through.

Kyle:

Yes.

Mariana:

Tuesday.

Kyle:

Tuesday Weld as Mrs.

Kyle:

Pentagrast, Barbara Hershey as Beth, and Rachel to Cotton, who was also.

Kyle:

She played Sandra, but amazing in Total Recall, opposite of Arnold.

Kyle:

Oh.

Kyle:

Lois Smith, who is from Twister.

Kyle:

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Kyle:

What's her name?

Kyle:

What?

Kyle:

Aunt.

Kyle:

Aunt.

Kyle:

What was her name?

Kyle:

And Twister.

Kyle:

She's so.

Kyle:

She's so amazing in Twister.

Seth:

Yeah.

Kyle:

The big.

Seth:

The best steak and eggs I've ever seen in my life.

Kyle:

Yeah.

Kyle:

Was that your cow?

Kyle:

And then from there it kind of.

Kyle:

I will call this out.

Kyle:

Captain Yardley, who was a complete dick.

Kyle:

Raymond.

Kyle:

Raymond J.

Kyle:

Barry.

Seth:

Yeah.

Mariana:

Yeah.

Kyle:

Oh, and the guy that thinks he's Bill Paxton, D.W.

Kyle:

moffitt is detective Lydecker.

Mariana:

Great.

Kyle:

Lydekker.

Kyle:

Sorry.

Kyle:

It's hard.

Kyle:

It's hard to read and say it's Lydekker, but I said Lydecker.

Kyle:

Yeah, it sounds like a, like an accusation of abuse.

Kyle:

Lydecker.

Seth:

Yeah.

Kyle:

Okay.

Kyle:

Sorry.

Kyle:

Supported cast.

Seth:

I'm kind of 50, 50 on them.

Seth:

Like some of them were the perfect caricature of who they were representing.

Seth:

And then others, the Nazi guy I would put in that category.

Seth:

I definitely, I definitely thought he was Dice Clay when I, for.

Seth:

When I first saw him pop up on screen, the way he was acting.

Kyle:

Frederick Forest.

Seth:

Yeah.

Seth:

Yeah.

Kyle:

He looks exact.

Kyle:

His IMDb picture.

Kyle:

He looks exactly like Dice Clay.

Kyle:

Dice Clay.

Kyle:

He looks exactly like Dice Clay.

Seth:

But then you have the, you know, low level detective guy who's just so overacting like a very split on it.

Seth:

But overall, because I came out of the movie enjoying what everyone did give to it, I am going to give it a whammy burger.

Kyle:

Cool.

Seth:

But another 5.1.

Kyle:

Okay.

Seth:

Yeah.

Kyle:

Out of 74.

Seth:

Out of 74.

Kyle:

Yeah.

Mariana:

I feel like whammy burger, but at the same time, I feel like it wasn't about the supporting cast.

Seth:

Yeah.

Mariana:

I will say that.

Mariana:

His wife, Tuesday, specifically Pendergrass wife, she annoyed me so much.

Mariana:

She did it perfectly.

Mariana:

Like she would have.

Seth:

Yeah.

Mariana:

You know, like that character would have.

Mariana:

But I was just like, oh, my God.

Mariana:

I would have divorced this woman so long ago.

Seth:

Oh, yeah.

Mariana:

Like if somebody was calling me all day just like, when are you coming home?

Mariana:

When you come home.

Mariana:

Oh, my God.

Mariana:

But at the same time, that's what the character was supposed to be doing.

Mariana:

It's just an interesting way.

Mariana:

I don't, I don't like, love the way that they portrayed.

Mariana:

She was like one of the main women characters.

Mariana:

I love the, the other cop.

Kyle:

Oh, Sandra.

Seth:

Oh, yeah.

Mariana:

I love.

Kyle:

Played by Rachel to Koch from Total Recall.

Mariana:

Yes.

Mariana:

She was great.

Mariana:

I mean, they were great at what they did for what the direction was.

Mariana:

But at the same time I'm like, they didn't feel like real people and they didn't feel like whole characters.

Seth:

That's why I'm at like just, just.

Mariana:

Barely squeaks like, wham.

Mariana:

Yeah, it's a wham.

Kyle:

Yeah.

Kyle:

I, I went falling down on this one, I.

Kyle:

I think Sandra.

Kyle:

I agree.

Kyle:

And then Lois Smith, who's basically the same person she is when she's the aunt and twister.

Seth:

Yeah.

Kyle:

Outside of that, it's just way too disjointed.

Kyle:

Like, I don't.

Kyle:

I'm not one of those people that, like, some people annoy me.

Kyle:

Like, I just don't feel like I have enough backstory.

Kyle:

It's like you said, this is a containerized story.

Seth:

Yeah.

Seth:

You don't need backstory.

Seth:

Yeah, but depth is different from backstory.

Kyle:

Yeah.

Kyle:

If you're going to act out of line, like Captain Yardley being such a dick out of nowhere, and then Licker pretending to be a Bill Paxton, so.

Kyle:

So aberrant.

Kyle:

So, like, just boisterous.

Kyle:

Like, if you're going to do that shit, like, I will need a little more because my least.

Seth:

Make sure you know the reason why you're doing this.

Seth:

Go the full Johnny Depp and write 50 pages about what your character had for breakfast that day.

Mariana:

There we go.

Seth:

Like, if.

Seth:

If.

Seth:

If you don't believe it, I'm not going to believe it.

Kyle:

Yeah.

Kyle:

It's like the actors were asking.

Kyle:

Joel Schumacher is like, what should I do here?

Kyle:

You're a dick.

Kyle:

Like, okay.

Kyle:

And he's like, all right, I'm gonna be a dick.

Kyle:

It's like, what about me?

Kyle:

He's like, you're a racist Nazi.

Kyle:

Okay, here we go.

Seth:

You know what?

Seth:

You've convinced me.

Seth:

I'm.

Seth:

I'm a 4.9 now.

Seth:

It's falling down.

Kyle:

Because what happens is you get caricatures.

Kyle:

Yeah, you don't get caricatures.

Kyle:

You get caricatures of an idea.

Kyle:

And so I'm a dickhead captain.

Kyle:

I'm a boisterous, low level detective.

Kyle:

You know, and then you just.

Kyle:

You just get a bunch of.

Kyle:

You know.

Seth:

Yeah.

Kyle:

I just think considering the great performances we get from Duvall and Douglas, the rest kind of pales.

Seth:

Yeah, yeah, you've.

Seth:

You've convinced me.

Seth:

And falling down now.

Mariana:

Way too much dialogue.

Mariana:

We'll say that.

Kyle:

Yeah.

Mariana:

Juxtaposition for the drive.

Mariana:

Like, so much dialogue that could have been cut out.

Mariana:

Like, entire characters.

Kyle:

Could have been too much exposition.

Seth:

Yeah, yeah.

Kyle:

That just watched.

Mariana:

I would have watched him just walking around more.

Seth:

I don't know.

Seth:

Because that.

Kyle:

In writing, if you guys want.

Seth:

Yeah, I'm going to hold off on that.

Kyle:

Hold off.

Kyle:

We'll get to that.

Kyle:

And right now, hold on to that.

Kyle:

I want to hear that thought.

Kyle:

I just want to make sure it's in the right category here.

Kyle:

It's the next category.

Seth:

Oh, there we go.

Kyle:

Yeah.

Kyle:

But, yeah, it's one to one here.

Kyle:

Wow.

Kyle:

Oh, no.

Kyle:

Oh, no.

Kyle:

We're falling down.

Kyle:

Maybe.

Kyle:

Or maybe we're getting a whammy burger.

Kyle:

Writing.

Kyle:

So the person that wrote it that I talked about earlier with the strike and was Ebby Rose Smith.

Kyle:

Okay.

Kyle:

And he was actually.

Kyle:

He's an actor in the Boys that show that people like.

Kyle:

Oh, nice prime, which I don't care about, but it's all right.

Kyle:

Seem to like it.

Seth:

Yeah.

Seth:

You go first on this because you have opinions.

Kyle:

Go ahead.

Mariana:

Well, I just.

Mariana:

I feel like there's.

Mariana:

I didn't really care about the sporting cast and I felt like there was a lot of exposition that just didn't matter.

Mariana:

And especially with the cop characters.

Mariana:

Like, he could have just shown the female cop and that could have been the only other cop, honestly.

Mariana:

And they could have shown no other cops because they were all clearly extras.

Kyle:

Yeah.

Mariana:

That were.

Mariana:

Just had some lines and I.

Mariana:

And I also feel like they didn't.

Mariana:

They, like, overplayed so much that it was like.

Mariana:

It feels like you're trying to fit in a lot of emotion in this one sentence.

Seth:

Yeah.

Mariana:

And I don't believe you.

Mariana:

So why was this.

Mariana:

Why did this even happen?

Mariana:

It also kind of felt like an editing problem too.

Kyle:

Yeah.

Kyle:

Yeah, fair.

Mariana:

So falling down.

Seth:

So for me, I am actually gonna go with a whammy burger here because this is one of those movies that I feel like the point of the extra dialogue was to distract you.

Seth:

And I think he did that very well, I think, because everyone is saying, you know, he's got all these massive monologues that Michael Douglas gives, and then you have everyone else kind of interjecting all of their thoughts through whatever Robert Duvall is doing.

Seth:

Like, I feel like that was kind of the point was to distract you from what was truly going on until that last moment wrap up.

Seth:

So for me, I actually think there was a.

Seth:

There was a purpose to.

Seth:

Because I think we're going to review this one later.

Seth:

But there's a movie I watched called Sometimes I Feel about or Think About Dying.

Seth:

And my biggest problem with that is the dialogue that was there because there's barely any actual written dialogue.

Seth:

The dialogue that was there was just background characters talking about dumb office stuff and none of it actually fed the plot in any way, shape or form.

Seth:

In this one, while there was a lot of dialogue, I feel like every line that was there was put there for a reason.

Seth:

And for me, that reason was to kind of distract from the big reveal that was Going to happen at the end.

Seth:

So for me, it's.

Seth:

It's a whammy burger.

Mariana:

Yeah, good point.

Mariana:

He did build a lot of tension in those moments.

Seth:

Yeah.

Mariana:

Very good point.

Kyle:

Yeah.

Kyle:

Are you converting?

Kyle:

We have conversions sometimes on here.

Kyle:

You don't have to.

Kyle:

No pressure.

Mariana:

It's a good point.

Mariana:

And I do feel like it builds attention really well.

Mariana:

And when you started saying it, I was like, you know what?

Mariana:

I kind of agree.

Kyle:

But then lighter crew opens his mouth.

Seth:

Yeah.

Mariana:

Yeah.

Seth:

Again, I think that's an acting problem, though.

Seth:

That's less of a writing problem.

Mariana:

That's a good point.

Mariana:

That wasn't the writing.

Mariana:

I feel like he just overreacted it a lot.

Mariana:

I might just be a half wham with three people.

Kyle:

We only go all in.

Kyle:

What do you.

Mariana:

Oh, no.

Kyle:

Okay.

Kyle:

We only go all in.

Mariana:

I'm gonna stick with falling down.

Seth:

All right.

Kyle:

I like it because I'm six your guns.

Kyle:

I'm going there, too.

Kyle:

And I just wish this was a little more even, you know, not to my.

Kyle:

My favorite director directors are the Coen brothers.

Seth:

Yeah.

Kyle:

And I.

Kyle:

They're kind of the benchmark for me with.

Kyle:

With side characters and with writing them like there are.

Kyle:

They have characters that are in movies for a minute that are more memorable than so many side characters.

Mariana:

Yeah.

Kyle:

I'm not saying I expected jolt.

Kyle:

Just that's not who Schumacher is.

Seth:

Yeah.

Kyle:

But I've seen him do this better.

Kyle:

Like, Lost Boys is one of my top 50 films.

Kyle:

I love how he writes the mother and the boyfriend that ends up being a vampire.

Kyle:

Like, I love how he writes side characters.

Kyle:

But here I just feel like I do think the Nazi was written pretty well.

Seth:

Yeah.

Kyle:

But then, like, I get to lie to her, and, like, I know that's acting, but it's also just the stuff that they're being told to say is all characterization.

Kyle:

I just.

Kyle:

It distracted.

Kyle:

You talked about distraction.

Kyle:

I was distracted from how great Douglas and Duvall were because I'm just not liking what's being said.

Kyle:

I'm just like.

Kyle:

I just.

Kyle:

So I went falling down, too.

Seth:

So all fair opinions.

Kyle:

It's all fair.

Seth:

So what are we at?

Seth:

2 1.

Kyle:

We are at.

Kyle:

Yep.

Kyle:

We are at 2 or 1 to 2.

Kyle:

Yeah.

Kyle:

So we have two falling down, one whammy burger.

Kyle:

I love saying whammy burger.

Kyle:

Isn't it fun?

Mariana:

Good one.

Mariana:

Yeah.

Mariana:

They should make a whammy burger.

Kyle:

It's my new serenity now.

Kyle:

Whammy burger.

Kyle:

All right.

Kyle:

Directing Joel Schumacher and I want to put out a couple of Lost boys.

Kyle:

Batman and Robin, Batman forever.

Kyle:

Tiger Land with Colin Farrell, which was kind of a crazy, crazy, independent looking, via Vietnam film.

Kyle:

Very unsettling.

Kyle:

And then room 23, which was kind of.

Kyle:

Well, did that after Eternal Sunshine.

Mariana:

Oh, the number 23 was after.

Seth:

No, no, no, no.

Seth:

Okay.

Kyle:

I'm just talking about it was after.

Mariana:

Yeah.

Kyle:

Because room 23, to me, like, I, I, I saw that before I saw Sunshine and I was like, damn, Jim Carrey can straight up act.

Seth:

Yeah.

Kyle:

So, yeah.

Seth:

And then let's not forget Phantom of the Opera.

Kyle:

Phantom of the Opera, Yeah.

Seth:

I think that's important in his filmography.

Kyle:

Yeah.

Seth:

I'm, I'm going whammy burger on him, I think.

Seth:

I, like you said, he builds a lot of tension.

Seth:

Again, there's only one or two, maybe three characters I feel like were overacting.

Seth:

And you know what I say, When a couple of actors are overacting, it's the actor's fault.

Seth:

When everyone's overacting, it's the director's fault.

Seth:

I genuinely think the script he was given, he did everything good that he could with it.

Seth:

And especially when it comes down to the two men carrying that entire film on their backs.

Seth:

I think both of them were directed properly and he got them to the place where you felt for them in such deep ways.

Seth:

So it's definitely whammy burger for me.

Kyle:

I love that, Mariana.

Mariana:

Yeah, I agree.

Mariana:

I love Joel Schumacher and he, I told them earlier, but he's from my alma mater, Parsons School of Design.

Mariana:

He was a fashion design major.

Seth:

That makes sense, actually.

Mariana:

It really does.

Mariana:

I love that he ended up being a director.

Mariana:

I didn't realize that.

Mariana:

And the number 23 is one of my favorite movies.

Mariana:

Movies with Jim Carrey.

Mariana:

I love when comedians go into dark.

Seth:

Yeah.

Mariana:

Crazy movies.

Seth:

Yeah.

Mariana:

Because I feel like they can bring so much more depth to it that regular people don't have.

Seth:

Oh, yeah.

Seth:

That's why Jason Bateman is so good in Ozark.

Mariana:

Oh, yeah.

Mariana:

And this is why everything he produces is good too, because he just is there and it adds depth.

Seth:

Yeah.

Kyle:

Adam Sandler and Uncut Gems.

Kyle:

Yeah.

Mariana:

Oh, my God.

Mariana:

Adam Sandler is another great.

Mariana:

Just Funny people.

Seth:

Yeah.

Mariana:

That's a great dark movie.

Mariana:

But, yeah, I loved, I loved this movie so much.

Mariana:

And I feel like it was mainly because he kind of kept the vision together.

Seth:

Yeah.

Mariana:

Even if the supporting characters weren't necessarily 100, it still didn't really affect the movie quality.

Mariana:

So Whammy burger.

Kyle:

Yeah.

Kyle:

I almost, you know, I can't say it better than you did.

Kyle:

You basically said what I want to say.

Kyle:

Which is like I even know there was some distractions with some bad acting and some bad writing.

Kyle:

Overall, this is a very impactful movie.

Seth:

Yeah.

Kyle:

And it carries more weight today than it did when I watched it it years ago.

Seth:

Yeah.

Kyle:

Very weighty and the message was clearly delivered in it and it kind of like shook me at my core.

Seth:

Yeah.

Kyle:

So yeah, there are moments, but luckily the, the final showdown, the way the tension increases over the course of the film, like it was enough to overcome all that.

Kyle:

So the directing.

Kyle:

Yeah.

Kyle:

A total whammy burger.

Kyle:

So two to two, here we go.

Kyle:

Oh my gosh.

Kyle:

Are we going to come down to the wire or is breakfast going to be closed?

Kyle:

Yeah.

Seth:

Is it:

Kyle:

Is it 10?

Kyle:

Yeah.

Kyle:

All right, what's in front of us that remember cinematography, production design, sound, costumes.

Seth:

Yeah.

Seth:

Like I said, that movie made me feel hot and sweaty just because of how hot and sweaty the movie was.

Seth:

I, I, yeah, everything visual, even, even down to the sound design.

Seth:

Like I think every part of it was very well thought out.

Seth:

Nothing felt like they were just getting coverage, which is something you'll see a lot in TV versus films.

Seth:

But I can tell when there's a poorly made film, when every shot isn't thought out, when it's just, well, we need to get wide, we need to get mediums that cover everybody and we need to get close ups that cover everybody.

Seth:

You can tell that versus this particular line of dialogue is going to be set in a wide shot because we need to feel like this characters alone.

Seth:

But this one's going to be a very intense close up because we really need to feel the emotion.

Seth:

I felt like every time something was on screen, it was very purposeful.

Seth:

So it's a whammy burger for me.

Mariana:

Yeah, I agree.

Mariana:

I would say whammy burger also.

Mariana:

I just, I don't know.

Mariana:

It's just rare that there's a movie that is like.

Mariana:

Especially when it's not beautiful.

Seth:

Yeah.

Mariana:

There's nothing in it that is beautiful.

Seth:

It's disgusting.

Mariana:

It's disgusting.

Mariana:

It's gross.

Mariana:

It looks like my childhood.

Mariana:

Like it is just there's nothing nice.

Mariana:

It's like the opposite of drive.

Seth:

Yeah.

Mariana:

He makes it look just gross and disgusting.

Mariana:

And at the same time I'm just like, I've never felt more in line with the character.

Mariana:

I keep saying it, but I'm just like at the end of the movie I'm just like, I am this guy.

Seth:

I am the bad guy.

Mariana:

I know, I know.

Mariana:

And it makes you feel like I'm like, maybe I Am the bad guy.

Mariana:

Yeah.

Mariana:

But at least I have that voice in my head still.

Seth:

Yeah.

Mariana:

But, yeah, just overall, I think it was just really strong and it just, you know, it just keeps you there the whole time.

Mariana:

You.

Mariana:

I have trouble paying attention to a movie a whole, the whole time.

Mariana:

And I was just in trance.

Mariana:

In a trance watching it.

Seth:

So.

Seth:

Yeah.

Mariana:

Whammy burger.

Kyle:

Love that.

Kyle:

Isn't it fun to say whammy?

Mariana:

It's so fun to say.

Mariana:

I mean, that's probably why I'm rating everything.

Kyle:

Yeah.

Kyle:

Yeah.

Kyle:

I hated it, but I'm still going Whammy burger.

Seth:

I know.

Kyle:

No, I agree.

Kyle:

I, I, and we.

Kyle:

I have a category just about la, just because, you know, LA is such a prominent place for the setting.

Kyle:

And I love it when movies deviate and do something else.

Kyle:

But you could watch 10 different movies in LA.

Kyle:

Like Take Drive, for example, and Heat.

Seth:

Yeah.

Kyle:

And you could come away with 10 different interpretations of what LA is if you're, if you're not basing it on reality but on the movies themselves.

Seth:

Yeah.

Kyle:

And this, obviously, it paints, I would say, a realistic but a pretty exaggerated version of la.

Seth:

Oh, very.

Kyle:

But I do love it because it's, it's almost.

Kyle:

This is a bit of a stretch, but it's Mad Max trudging through the wasteland almost.

Kyle:

And he's.

Kyle:

I love that he's traversing on foot this world.

Kyle:

He doesn't drive.

Seth:

Yeah.

Kyle:

He's on foot.

Kyle:

He's got weapons.

Kyle:

He's, you know, he's got a bazooka at one point.

Kyle:

I mean, he's just walking through the wasteland and you.

Seth:

Bazooka scene with.

Seth:

So good.

Kyle:

It's so out of this world.

Mariana:

Amazing.

Seth:

It's so out of fact that the kid just walks up, he's like, no, you do this.

Kyle:

And that's where the Douglas tongue in cheek shit really paid off for this movie.

Kyle:

Oh, we're making a movie.

Seth:

Yeah.

Kyle:

What's it called?

Kyle:

I love it.

Kyle:

And I think, I think it's, like, allegorical almost.

Kyle:

It's almost like he's walking through, you know, the Rings of Hell, you know, and.

Seth:

Very Pilgrim's Progressy.

Kyle:

Yeah, yeah.

Kyle:

It's, you know, it's the Divine Comedy, almost.

Kyle:

And, and I love that.

Kyle:

And so I think we're being presented with a very interesting visual and of him, like, almost traversing uphill, you know, towards his destiny, which is a bad destiny.

Kyle:

But I love everything we're being shown.

Kyle:

I think that the, the idea of seeing him in the white shirt and the buzz cut, you almost Immediately know who he is just by seeing him.

Kyle:

Yeah, you see him for five seconds.

Kyle:

Like, I know who that guy is.

Seth:

Yeah.

Kyle:

Smart nerd.

Kyle:

Maybe disgruntled, sweaty, little hair shorter.

Kyle:

Little, little, little short for the hair.

Kyle:

But no, I, I love it.

Kyle:

I, I think sometimes a small choice can speak so much.

Kyle:

And to me that the, the aesthetic of the costumes and the way people are dressed, it just speaks instantly.

Kyle:

So I feel like I'm there at, I'm saturated by it.

Kyle:

I love it.

Kyle:

So I give it a huge whammy burger.

Seth:

Yeah.

Kyle:

Three to two.

Kyle:

We got three whammies and we got two falling down.

Kyle:

Where are we going to end up?

Kyle:

Could end up in a tie.

Kyle:

I love it when that happens.

Kyle:

Love it.

Kyle:

You're over there, like, does that happen?

Kyle:

Am I supposed to care?

Mariana:

What happened?

Kyle:

What, what happened?

Kyle:

We get in a tie, man.

Mariana:

Does the guest host get, get killed.

Kyle:

When there's a tie?

Kyle:

We, we feed the guest host to Harrison.

Seth:

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Kyle:

One teaspoon at a time though.

Kyle:

So it's going to be a while.

Mariana:

So Harrison's a cat if y'all don't.

Kyle:

Harrison's the source of light over here.

Kyle:

The random.

Kyle:

All right, this is, I call this category the LA Times.

Seth:

Okay.

Kyle:

Because like I said, we have been presented.

Kyle:

We just reviewed a movie about LA and drive that was like driving around sexy neon la.

Kyle:

Cool.

Kyle:

What do you think about this interpretation?

Kyle:

And think of it this way too.

Kyle:

How does it hold up in of:

Seth:

so last time I was in LA was:

Seth:

I, I, I like to tell this story because I, I finally understood why so many people in LA are socialists.

Seth:

Because I was walking to the Comedy Store and I was going up the main road that goes to Sunset Boulevard and I'm passing by this wildly expensive steakhouse.

Seth:

Three people, dudes probably got a 3,000, $4,000 suit on.

Seth:

These two girls are in like almost like ball gown kind of dresses, getting out of a Tesla Roadster.

Seth:

And they're walking into the steakhouse as a homeless man is pushing an entire gigantic cart just full of shit.

Seth:

And they're all covering their faces, trying to not look at him as they're walking to the steakhouse.

Seth:

And it's like when you live in a city that has that wild, like literally the richest of the rich and the poorest of the poor all right next to each other.

Seth:

I can see how some people would have these kind of extreme looking ideologies.

Seth:

And for me, I feel like this movie really plays on this not necessarily the rich and poor, but, like the extreme good versus the extreme bad that thinks he's doing good.

Seth:

And.

Seth:

And also just the kind of gritty, gross nature of LA that at least I experienced two years ago.

Seth:

So for me, it's a whammy burger.

Seth:

Because the entire time I was watching this movie, even though it was made in the early 90s, I still was like, this is what it feels like today.

Seth:

Like, it's.

Seth:

They nailed it.

Seth:

So, yeah, yeah, it's a whammy burger for me.

Kyle:

I love that.

Mariana:

Nice.

Mariana:

I.

Mariana:

I've never been to LA, but I lived in New York City for 10 years, so I feel like they're pretty comparable in the fact that they're both disgusting.

Seth:

Yeah.

Kyle:

Yeah.

Kyle:

And I'm smelling New York just hearing you talking about it.

Mariana:

Yeah, I know.

Mariana:

And then you do have that, like, wealth disparity where you're just like.

Mariana:

It just feels insane to a point where you're just like, wait a minute, I work 20 hours a day and I'm never going to have what.

Mariana:

Like, this woman has.

Mariana:

Like, she's never worked a day in her life and she lives here.

Seth:

Yeah.

Mariana:

And this is.

Mariana:

Makes sense because she was born into this family.

Mariana:

And then you just get to this place where you're like, oh, yeah, everything's predetermined to an extent.

Mariana:

You can change a lot, but.

Mariana:

And you can work hard, but it doesn't necessarily pay off.

Mariana:

Which is kind of what this movie is about, or not about, but, you know, it's.

Mariana:

It's a theme.

Seth:

Yeah, definitely.

Mariana:

But I just.

Mariana:

I don't know.

Mariana:

My favorite part of the whole movie is the bazooka scene with the kid.

Seth:

Yeah.

Mariana:

And.

Mariana:

But it's because, like, when he's like, why are you tearing up the road?

Mariana:

And then you read more about the movie and it's like, yeah, they were just fulfilling a budget or something.

Mariana:

A lot of the time when they do this, like, road work.

Seth:

Yeah.

Mariana:

And you are just like, so you interrupted my life for a year or two years, my commute to work.

Mariana:

You interrupted it to do nothing, to fill a budget.

Seth:

Yeah.

Mariana:

And then you just.

Seth:

To make sure you didn't have a surplus.

Seth:

Yeah.

Mariana:

So you feel like a lemming.

Mariana:

And I just.

Mariana:

I don't know what the question was anymore, but representation of la.

Kyle:

Do you dig the representation of LA and how.

Kyle:

like, the difference between:

Seth:

Yeah.

Mariana:

But at the same time, that's from somebody who's never been to la.

Mariana:

Yeah, I've just been in these, like, concentrated cities.

Mariana:

Plenty.

Mariana:

And again, living in New York for 10 years and almost never leaving for 10 years, like, you do feel like a rat on a sinking ship.

Mariana:

And I think I feel that from him.

Seth:

Yeah.

Mariana:

When he's there, I feel the, like, desperate, quiet.

Mariana:

Living a life of quiet desperation.

Seth:

Yeah.

Kyle:

Yeah.

Mariana:

So whammy bird.

Kyle:

Whammy burger.

Kyle:

I love it.

Kyle:

Yeah, I agree.

Kyle:

And there's some research that, you know, in the commentary, they talk about when the.

Kyle:

When they were writing the screenplay, LA had become this capital of now.

Kyle:

We now think of it as this.

Kyle:

This melting pot, this very diverse city.

Kyle:

And it was always kind of diverse, but there was a time period where in the early 90s, when legislation had changed about immigration.

Kyle:

And all of a sudden, Los Angeles.

Kyle:

Los Angeles become the capital of immigration.

Kyle:

Like, and folks like, like folks from India, you know, all over Asia, Mexico, like, it.

Kyle:

This legislation had.

Kyle:

It became the place where people flocked.

Seth:

Yeah.

Kyle:

And so.

Kyle:

But it also created kind of a cultural crisis.

Seth:

Yeah.

Kyle:

In the city.

Kyle:

And it's hard to think of it now because LA is just known for that.

Seth:

Yeah.

Kyle:

But then, like, it was.

Kyle:

It was a culture shock.

Kyle:

And so they actually represent on the nose what was happening in the city, which was this massive change as a city that was becoming a melting pot of all kind of not just immigration, but cultures.

Seth:

Yeah.

Kyle:

Different cultures coming in.

Kyle:

And so it really does.

Kyle:

It does that really well, I think.

Kyle:

And I, like you said, I'm sweating the whole time.

Kyle:

I'm just watching.

Kyle:

I'm like, I'm sweaty.

Kyle:

I want to change my shirt.

Seth:

Yeah.

Kyle:

Like, dude, I actually feel like I was perspiring watching it.

Kyle:

Literally, I'm just like.

Seth:

You feel gross just halfway through the movie.

Seth:

Not because of anything that happens, just because of how everything is portrayed.

Kyle:

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Kyle:

I get really uneasy when I go to la because I don't go that often, but when I do go, it's typically for business or something.

Kyle:

But when I go, I.

Kyle:

I have the feeling maybe because I've watched so many movies.

Kyle:

Maybe not.

Kyle:

I don't know, but I'm just like, I could get.

Kyle:

I could really get in some trouble here if I wanted to.

Kyle:

You know, it's just like everything's here.

Seth:

Yeah.

Kyle:

Good and bad, you know, and which.

Kyle:

But it's also like a.

Kyle:

Choose your own reality.

Seth:

Yeah.

Kyle:

You.

Kyle:

You for sure.

Kyle:

You know, it's just like.

Kyle:

I know, and I hate to say this, I hope these people don't listen to the podcast, but I just know a lot of people that go there.

Kyle:

And I know that they can barely afford to eat, but on social media, they are crushing it.

Seth:

Yeah.

Kyle:

Like, they are.

Kyle:

They were an extra in a commercial.

Kyle:

I'm like, you couldn't pay for ramen.

Seth:

Yeah.

Kyle:

I'm just like.

Kyle:

And I'm proud of them for trying.

Kyle:

It's not that.

Kyle:

But I'm just like.

Kyle:

It's a Choose your own reality.

Kyle:

But this guy, this character is reality.

Seth:

Yeah.

Kyle:

And he's marching through this wasteland.

Kyle:

And for that reason, I love the LA setting here because it does feel very real, very true to the history of the city.

Kyle:

But also he's this weird, idyllic figure kind of marching through this changing wasteland.

Kyle:

It's crazy.

Kyle:

I love it.

Kyle:

So anyway, L.A.

Kyle:

times, I give it a huge whammy burger.

Seth:

Yeah.

Kyle:

So it is.

Kyle:

What is that?

Seth:

Four to two.

Kyle:

Four to two.

Kyle:

And it's.

Kyle:

There's nothing.

Kyle:

Nothing can be done here.

Kyle:

This is an interesting category.

Kyle:

It's actually been done in other ones, but we did it in American Cycle because we found out it was being remade.

Kyle:

But I was asking myself the question, watching this, could it be remade today?

Kyle:

And the answering is a little reverse psychology.

Kyle:

If you think yes, that's actually a no, because you don't think the film accomplished what it could.

Kyle:

What it meant to accomplish.

Kyle:

But.

Kyle:

But, you know, does this.

Kyle:

Could this story be retold?

Kyle:

Does it need to be retold in a modern context?

Kyle:

Or is.

Kyle:

Or is this kind of a time capsule?

Seth:

I think this captures.

Seth:

I think it transcends time.

Kyle:

Yeah.

Seth:

I don't think it needs to be remade.

Seth:

I don't think it should be remade.

Seth:

So I guess I'm giving it a whammy burger because I feel like it.

Seth:

Even though you can tell when it was made just because of the clothes people are wearing and what's going on, it still somehow feels outside of time.

Seth:

It still represents a lot of people today.

Seth:

So, yeah, I don't think it should ever be remade.

Seth:

I think it should stay as a perfect time capsule that also transcends time.

Kyle:

I love that.

Kyle:

Well said.

Mariana:

Yeah, well said.

Mariana:

I hate remakes.

Mariana:

I don't ever want anything to be remade.

Mariana:

I would way rather watch the original than I would ever want to watch a remake.

Mariana:

I do think it would be interesting to make an entire TV show that was on the same concept that was set today, but maybe a different kind of character.

Seth:

Yeah.

Mariana:

Like their life just keeps devolving and devolving and devolving.

Mariana:

It would have to be one season.

Mariana:

It'd be a miniseries.

Seth:

Yeah.

Seth:

Like a solid five episodes.

Mariana:

Yeah.

Mariana:

It just.

Mariana:

It feels.

Mariana:

It feels like they did it perfectly.

Seth:

Yeah.

Mariana:

But at the same time, I kind of sometimes hate watching old movies.

Mariana:

Because they're ugly.

Kyle:

Yeah.

Mariana:

And they're aesthetically ugly.

Mariana:

And I think that's why a lot of people don't go back and watch old movies now.

Mariana:

Not to mention they're not as available.

Mariana:

Especially a movie like this where it's not like the Avengers, you know, or something like that.

Mariana:

So I don't think you can remake it, and there's no reason to.

Mariana:

But I love the concept, and I would love to see something not based on it, but I would love to see another version of the same person.

Seth:

Yeah.

Mariana:

Because I just feel like this guy represents everybody.

Seth:

Yeah.

Mariana:

Or not everybody.

Mariana:

Clearly, he doesn't represent the 1%, but he represents everybody else.

Seth:

He definitely represents the every man.

Mariana:

Yeah, totally.

Mariana:

He's the 99.

Seth:

Yeah.

Mariana:

And I just.

Mariana:

Man.

Kyle:

Yeah.

Mariana:

Whammy burger.

Kyle:

Whammy burger.

Kyle:

That's both of y'all.

Kyle:

Well said.

Kyle:

A couple poets over here.

Kyle:

Yeah, I.

Kyle:

I kept thinking about this movie, like, and it's a really hard thought to nail down because on one hand, we.

Kyle:

We're.

Kyle:

We're numb to violence now.

Seth:

Yeah.

Kyle:

I think we see.

Kyle:

You know, my God, we.

Kyle:

You can get on Twitter and see acts of war.

Seth:

Yeah.

Seth:

Literally.

Kyle:

Twitter, you know, you can see.

Mariana:

You can watch wars.

Seth:

Yeah.

Kyle:

Yes.

Kyle:

You can watch people getting run over by cars on Twitter.

Kyle:

It's just like we live in a time where violence is so.

Kyle:

Is so mainlined.

Kyle:

But still, I am shocked when.

Kyle:

When you read about someone who acts.

Kyle:

Who actually acts on those instincts.

Kyle:

And that's why this movie is so shocking, you know, and this is during a time when.

Kyle:

When information wasn't flowing as freely.

Kyle:

It's still very heavily.

Kyle:

I mean, this movie is based on newspaper.

Kyle:

You know, it's like, yeah, this is newspaper prime.

Seth:

Yeah.

Kyle:

So it's like.

Kyle:

It's even more shocking.

Kyle:

So I like the idea of this being against.

Kyle:

You know, could they tell the story today in time where we are just so not shocked?

Seth:

Yeah.

Kyle:

You know, and this is shocking considering the time.

Kyle:

So.

Kyle:

Yeah, I definitely think it's.

Kyle:

It's relegated to the time it was made.

Kyle:

I think it's timeless and I.

Kyle:

But I still think it speaks into today 100%, and I think it's got a really important message for today.

Seth:

Yeah.

Kyle:

That gets lost in the numbness we have to the violence we see all around us.

Seth:

Yeah, absolutely.

Kyle:

Hell, yeah.

Kyle:

This was a whammy burger.

Kyle:

Woo.

Kyle:

Falling down was a whammy burger.

Kyle:

I'm so.

Kyle:

Thank you for going on this journey with me.

Kyle:

I've wanted to talk about this movie for a while.

Seth:

Yeah, no, this was a great one to add to the collection.

Kyle:

Yes.

Kyle:

It's so good.

Mariana:

Highly recommend.

Seth:

Yeah, absolutely.

Kyle:

Absolutely.

Kyle:

This was a whammy burger for us, which is good.

Kyle:

Positive.

Kyle:

Loved it.

Kyle:

Affirmative.

Kyle:

That was fun.

Kyle:

Thanks for hanging out with me again.

Kyle:

We keep ending up in this room with microphones and we talk about movies.

Kyle:

It's amazing.

Mariana:

How'd this even get here?

Kyle:

Yeah.

Kyle:

Thank you for hanging out with us.

Kyle:

I'm Kyle.

Seth:

I'm Seth.

Mariana:

I'm Mariana.

Kyle:

Love y'all.

Seth:

Movie Wars.

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About the Podcast

Movie Wars
A panel of standup comedians deliver deeply researched and thoughtful film analysis.
A panel of stand-up comedians blends humor with deep film analysis, using their unique ‘War Card’ system to grade movies across key categories. Each episode delivers thoughtful insights and spirited debate, offering a fresh, comedic take on film critique. New episode every Thursday!
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Kyle Castro