Episode 87

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Published on:

20th May 2025

Collateral with Will Abeles

🎙️ Collateral — LA Crime, Michael Mann Vibes, and Will Abeles' Murder Ride

This week on Movie Wars, we dive into Michael Mann’s Collateral — a movie where Tom Cruise plays the most terrifying silver fox since Anderson Cooper, and Jamie Foxx gets one night to decide if he’s a cab driver or a hero. We’re joined by our good friend and touring standup Will Abeles, who took a break from crisscrossing the country to talk LA noir, digital cinematography, and, oh yeah — the time he gave a real-life Vincent a ride across Nashville.

We talk about how Collateral captures LA’s sweaty, neon-soaked vibe better than any other film since Heat, how Mann’s use of early digital cameras shaped the look of modern movies, and how Cruise’s weird hair dye and Bangkok suit are all part of the character’s ghostlike anonymity. Plus: Jamie Foxx’s quiet career pivot, what makes Mann’s cityscapes feel mythic, and a full-on Uber-from-hell story that somehow makes Collateral feel like a documentary.


This one’s full of chaos, crime, and comedy — basically, a perfect night in Los Angeles.


🔥 Takeaways


  • Michael Mann doesn’t just film LA — he turns it into a character. From Heat to Collateral, the man is the city’s best cinematographer
  • Will Abeles joins fresh off his special The Pride of Hagerstown, and shares his very own “Collateral moment” while driving for Uber.
  • We talk about Mann’s bold use of early digital cameras in 2004 and how it gave the movie that immersive, eerie nighttime look.
  • Tom Cruise’s gray hair and Thai-tailored suit? That wasn’t just a weird choice — it was a tactical one, designed to make Vincent disappear in plain sight.
  • Jamie Foxx’s performance in Collateral marked a major turning point in his career, showing off the kind of dramatic depth we’d later see in Ray.
  • Also: Scientology, strip mall comedy clubs, Morgan Wallen chaos, and an impromptu Nashville ayahuasca rant. You're welcome.


Transcript
Seth:

Movie Wars.

Kyle:

Ladies and gentlemen, welcome back to the Movie wars podcast. We're back. I'm Kyle.

Seth:

I'm Seth.

Kyle:

And we have one of our amazing comedian friends, Will Abel. Yes.

Will:

Oh, my God. I was like, what Intro? Well, I was like, what are you about to say? We have.

Kyle:

Well.

Will:

Sorry. Sorry.

Kyle:

Only with a few comedians.

Seth:

Yeah.

Will:

Yeah. Oh, thank you, guys.

Kyle:

Speaking the pride of Hagerstown. That's a special. It's one of the best specials. I loved watching it.

Will:

Oh, thank you.

Kyle:

And I also get to see the material live sometimes, so that's good, too. So they can find it YouTube.

Will:

YouTube. And also YouTube.

Kyle:

And also you haven't put on Spotify.

Will:

Oh, yeah, it's on Spotify. Yeah, that's true.

Kyle:

I think that's how I first. I think I listened to half of it and I think I watched half of it. I'm trying to remember how I did it.

Will:

Oh, that's great. I like that.

Kyle:

Yeah.

Will:

It's also one of those that if you download it on. If you still have itunes, if you still have Apple, it's one of those because of my name.

If you turn your car on and it automatically connects to your phone, you get to hear one of my jokes, like, immediately.

Kyle:

Oh, I love that.

Seth:

Yeah, it's nice.

Will:

It happens to me sometimes, and I'm like, I've taken Apple off my phone.

Kyle:

Yeah.

Will:

So I don't have to hear my own joke.

Seth:

Well, I listened to all the setups, and then I watched all the punchlines.

Kyle:

Oh, yeah.

Seth:

It was a really cool.

Will:

There you go.

Kyle:

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Will:

I like that extra effort that you're just sitting here like.

Kyle:

And with German subtitles. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Will:

Perfect.

Kyle:

No, it's funny. You. You. I'm not going to spoil a bit because I want you to go watch it for the first time, but you're. You have so many bits. I really like your dad.

Stuff about your dad and, like, playing baseball. Like, some of the bits you have, I'm just like, dude, I just relate to that so hard.

Seth:

It's a good time.

Kyle:

Yeah. So I'm not.

Will:

Yeah.

Kyle:

I'm not going to spoil the bits, though. Go check it out on YouTube.

Will:

Yeah. Thank you.

Kyle:

Yeah, man. So we're talking about Collateral today. Yeah, yeah. And I'm excited because I feel like.

And we talked about this with Drive, you know, so, like, 80% of the movies take place in Los Angeles, basically.

Seth:

Used to. At least they don't. They don't film there anymore. So it's kind of hard.

Kyle:

Even if it takes place in Los Angeles. That was New Mexico.

Seth:

Yeah.

Kyle:

Or that was Vancouver. Or Vancouver.

Seth:

Yeah.

Kyle:

Because they've made it impossible to make movies to. Even for big budget movies to be affordable in la. Thank you, Hollywood.

Seth:

But hey, the tariffs are going to save us.

Kyle:

Yes, they will. Yes, yes. We're going to tariff all the things.

Seth:

John Voight.

Kyle:

Yeah, thanks, John Voight.

Will:

Yeah. You can't to Dubai and film this scene anymore. You have to do it in Culver City. Yeah.

Kyle:

I'm from Arkansas. There's a lot of free land, man. There's. There's just cotton fields and diamond mines there.

Seth:

And Arkansas is so sketchy that even Ozark went and filmed in Georgia.

Kyle:

Yes, I know. And there's a city called Ozark and it looks exactly like the show. Yeah, exactly like Missouri.

Will:

Why don't they film like. I know, like, you know, Georgia's got its. Its got kind of got it together. Why don't they ever film anything in Tennessee?

Seth:

They do sometimes. They. They used to more, but the tax incentives have gotten worse.

Will:

Oh, that's.

Seth:

But I mean, we had, we. We obviously had Nashville film here for the longest time still. The King filmed here for a while. We had some random.

I, I worked on plenty of pilots that never went through, but we had, we had a lot of work. The Green Mile that was happening. The Green Mile was in it. The. He was.

Kyle:

Yeah, he was one of the, the prisoners jackhammering.

Seth:

Yeah. The:

Will:

The Jungle Book, like the cartoon?

Seth:

No, the one with Jason Scott Lee and Carrie Elwes and Sam Neill and John Cleese.

Will:

Yeah, yeah. Oh, my God. I don't know.

Seth:

Great movie.

Will:

Yeah.

Seth:

We need to cover that one day because that's one of my favorites. But yeah, there used to be a lot and just over the last several years it's kind of, kind of died down.

But I think with Nashville 911 coming here, it'll hopefully start.

Will:

Oh, okay, cool.

Kyle:

Yeah, yeah.

Will:

How many cameos do you think Morgan Wallen's gonna make on. On that show?

Seth:

Exactly three.

Kyle:

Yeah.

Seth:

All of them are going to be chair.

Will:

Always getting arrested so he can like up his bad boy.

Seth:

Yeah.

Will:

With his cute little boots.

Seth:

They're all, all the 911 calls are going to be for the Nashville Predator. Morgan Wallen.

Kyle:

I have never got to tell the story, but it's funny. I have a. I have this hilarious. I was in a Morgan Wallen music video and hell yeah. Because my. My friend owns a barber shop and.

Will:

Just keep going and. Yeah.

Kyle:

Yeah. Does he look like he gets haircuts? No. And just recently, I guess I don't like country music, so I don't give a.

But my friend was like, hey, I know you want a free haircut. And I was like, sure, what do I have to do? Because I was like, that's a weird thing to say. You want to get it for.

It's only, hey, do you want a free ride or. And so I was like, sure. What? I was like. And this is kind of as he was blowing up, but I still had never heard his name.

There's this guy named Morgan Wallen, and he booked the place to do a music video shoot for Spotify. And so it was like the Spotify collaboration. And I show up, and they sit me right next to Morgan Wallen.

Seth:

Nice.

Kyle:

And he. He. I guess they had already told him I'm a standup comedian.

Seth:

Oh, okay.

Kyle:

And so he's like, start saying the.

Seth:

N word to you, like, immediately.

Kyle:

Immediately. Just like, just. He had a sign problem with.

Will:

Y' all can't say anything anymore.

Kyle:

You just can't say anything.

Will:

Well, like, what specifically, Morgan? What can't we say?

Seth:

Yeah, well, what are the words?

Will:

Are you filming jugs?

Kyle:

We can't say the word jugs anymore.

Will:

I had someone say it to me on my lift. I was driving for Uber yesterday, and he was like. He found out I was comedian. He was from. Where was he from? Charlotte. He was from Charlotte.

And it was like, an older guy, white hair, and he was like, you're find a problem that you can't, like, tell jokes about black people anymore. And I was like, that's where you're going with this.

Kyle:

Wow.

Will:

Like, that specifically is what he said. He was like. He was like. He was like, yeah. You find it, like, hard. You can't say what you, like, want to say on stage.

You know, like, people get all offended by it. Like, you know, you can't tell jokes about black people. And I was like, that's. That's it? That's all you want?

Kyle:

Yeah.

Seth:

Who starts a conversation like that? I just sat down.

Kyle:

Are there any other people you'd like to add to the equation that we can't talk about? Because right now, I'm feeling siloed.

Will:

Right now? Yeah. That's so ridiculous.

Kyle:

So anyway, I'm sitting next to Morgan Wallen, and he's. A band is in the other seats, and it's me and a couple other people, and I'm. And I'm.

He's, like, asking me to tell jokes, and he keeps, like, prodding me to tell jokes and he gets me in trouble. And Morgan Wallen laughed because his producer came over and says, if you don't shut up, I'm gonna kick you out of here. And I was like, this guy.

Will:

Yeah.

Kyle:

Is the one making me tell jokes. He's like, he's asking me for material and he's laughing and he keeps prodding me. And then he starts talking about.

Even while the camera guy is, like, starting to, like, filming, and it's the actual music video.

Will:

Stop doing this.

Kyle:

He's like, who do you. Who do you like in football? I'm like, they're filming, Morgan.

Will:

That uncomfortable situation where you're like, you know, you're not supposed to be doing this and you know I'm going to get in trouble because no one's going to say anything to you. Oh, yeah.

Kyle:

Yep.

Will:

Yeah.

Seth:

And so that tracks. I completely. I believe every word of that.

Kyle:

Yeah, yeah.

Seth:

It just makes sense.

Will:

All right, we're rolling. Can you. Can you please stop? Stop.

Kyle:

Yeah. I want a free haircut, Morgan.

Will:

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Kyle:

Anyway, back to Collateral. That's why we get stand up comedians on the show. You never know where it's going to go.

Seth:

Exactly.

Kyle:

Back to la, though, when they did film. No one films la like Michael Mann, Heat, Collateral. He has this. He. It's funny because he's from Chicago. He's born and raised.

And you should listen to the commentary. Any commentary. Michael Mann. The dude's a historian.

Seth:

Yeah.

Kyle:

The way he talks about film, he's so, like, when he talks. And there's a special technological feed on this movie with the digital camera they used. But just hearing him, even as a.

Seth:

tor, used a digital camera in:

Kyle:

Yeah, he was. It's one of the very first.

Seth:

It really is. Oh, my God, that's crazy.

Kyle:

And. But his familiarity, you would love it as a filmmaker. He knows the technology.

Seth:

Oh, yeah.

Kyle:

He's using, like, terminology for the lights. I've never heard. And for the, like, the grain. And like, he just is so, like, he knows every aspect of film history, filmmaking.

Will:

So he was very proud of that movement because I remember I was at Emerson at the time, and I remember we had people come in, like, furious about, like, red cameras and, like, just like. And how much it could pick up.

And they were like, yeah, if you want to see a guy drinking coffee six blocks away when we're trying to focus on the guy right ahead of him, yeah, go get a red camera. And I, like, I wasn't even a film guy. I was a TV Guy. So I was like, what? This guy is furious.

Kyle:

Yeah.

Will:

But interesting, because I. I do know that was like a big divide in, in film.

Seth:

Oh, absolutely. Robert Rodriguez was definitely one of the earliest adopters.

Found that out from the Joe Rogan interview that Spy Kids 3D was the first digital 3D movie ever.

Kyle:

Yeah.

Will:

They were filming 3D movies on film.

Seth:

Yeah.

Will:

Huh.

Kyle:

Yeah. Jaws. Jaws 3D was the first digital or the first analog 3D movie ever made.

Seth:

Yeah.

Kyle:

Yep.

Will:

Oh, yeah. Okay. But I guess now that. I guess I was thinking 3D with like the other glasses, not the blue and red.

Seth:

Oh, yeah, yeah, Yeah.

Will:

I guess 3D's been around for a while.

Kyle:

Yeah.

Will:

And. Well, there you go.

Seth:

Yeah.

Kyle:

And it was always used in the stupidest applications, like when you watch Jaws 3D, it's such a shitty movie and then the 3D is really shitty. It's like whenever they blow up the shark, the jaw. The jaw of the shark just floats really close to the screen.

Will:

You're like, oh, no. I like that though.

Kyle:

Yeah, it is kind of cool.

Seth:

I will agree with you though, the way it is shot, you really do get a sense for kind of, kind of like we were talking about with Drive, just kind of the sweaty nature and I guess with Falling down, like the sweaty nature of la. Yes, it definitely compared to Falling Down.

And I think there was one other LA based movie that we watched, but it, it, it, it actually reminded me more of like gta.

Kyle:

Yeah.

Seth:

How. How smooth it was shot and how, how like it got you into the underbelly, but it still felt a little bit romanticized.

Kyle:

Yes.

Seth:

Didn't feel like they were really trying to get into the gritty parts of la.

Kyle:

Gave you everything.

Seth:

Yeah. Which I guess makes sense. If he's from Chicago, he would come into LA with this grand way of viewing it and what's presented. Yeah.

Almost like a mystical place.

Kyle:

Yeah. And heat's the same way. Like the, the, the. One of the most legendary scenes in film history is the shootout that just happens in the streets.

And people comment about how loud it is and how he wanted the echoes of those buildings to be captured. And they're loud and you feel like you're like when you're watching it in the surround sound, like, oh my God, am I there? Like even that.

Those are just commercial buildings in la. But he felt like it had to be every time he films in L. A. He's so good at featuring it.

Seth:

Yeah.

Kyle:

And so I just. Always a feast.

Will:

Yeah.

Kyle:

Watching. Watching an L. A movie.

Will:

I understand the romance of L A. Because I definitely had that before I had to go out there and start working.

Like, even, even like the first few times I went out there and worked, it still had it. And it wasn't until like I lived there for like only two months and like it was. By the end of it you were like, yeah, okay, yeah, it's over.

Yeah, this, this relationship's over.

Seth:

Yeah, I've been there once. I was there for four days and that was plenty of time for me to the vibe of the city.

And I am going back later this year, but that's just to see 30 seconds to Mars. So it'll be a fun time. But I. Yeah, LA is not one that has.

Granted I didn't go to it back kind of like New York like before COVID when things still kind of had the little magical patine patina to it where it was like, oh yeah, it's. It could still be cool even though it's still covered in. Yeah, now it's just covered in. There's nothing cool there's anymore.

Will:

Yeah. And the part I worked like, I. Very specifically like most of the time I work there.

I was working on Hollywood Boulevard by like I was either at Kimmel or I was at the Dolby Theater. So that's like a very. I mean to me that's still la. Yeah, like it's a very. Because it's Hollywood, you know. But I.

Yeah, I feel like once I got outside of that I was like, it's kind of, kind of like a lot of. A lot of strip malls.

Seth:

Yeah, yeah. Strip malls here and they're all way too expensive.

Kyle:

Yeah, I can't afford to be this poor.

Seth:

Yeah, yeah.

Will:

There's a comedy club in one of the strip. What it's called now. But I remember like I got booked there and I was going to it. It's not like it's like.

Not like it's like a comedy club the way like. I mean Third coast is a better club than that.

But like that idea where it's like not necessarily like a zany's type where it's like multiple clubs around the country. Like an improv or something like that.

Seth:

Yeah.

Will:

But I remember like walk like trying to find it and being like where is this place? Like this is insane. I'm just at a strip mall and then like seeing like a bunch of people walk out that I was like, that's an improv troupe.

Seth:

Yeah.

Will:

And then realizing like the blacked out windows were. That was the club. And then you went and it was actually cool. Once you got inside.

Kyle:

But it was between a Wrangler and an Indian boutique.

Will:

Honestly. Something like that. Yeah. Like, it was insane and. But yeah, yeah. What it was called off the top of my head, but.

Kyle:

And you said you had a collateral story yourself.

Will:

I did. I, I, it was like my. So I used to.

I've been driving for Uber Eats and that kind of thing for a while, but I finally got a nice enough car that I was like, you know what? I'm going to make some money and drive for Uber and Lyft because, like.

Seth:

He'S graduated, y' all.

Will:

Yeah. Well, the reason I didn't want to do it for so long is just the, the, you can't control the chaos of what's about to happen.

Seth:

No, I used to drive for Lyft, like 100% it is. You never know what you're going to get.

Will:

Yeah. And I actually, I do prefer Lyft passengers to Uber passengers. I think Lyft is more local and I think that's, I think that's why.

Seth:

But they're also just a slightly better company than Uber. Uber is just a horrible company.

Will:

I don't know what Uber did. I'm making bank on Uber at the moment.

Seth:

Oh. I just meant in the fact that they cover up, like, sexual assault against passengers.

Will:

Oh, yeah.

Seth:

And that kind of.

Will:

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, sure. That, that checks out. Well, it also.

Uber gets in trouble every six months and then they're like, hey, you come work for us, you'll make a bunch of money. I think, I think I've just discovered that and I don't know what happened. So I'll go look it up later.

Seth:

Yeah.

Will:

After I've made my millions. After I've paid for this tour. But. Yeah, so. Oh, God. Yeah. And it's one of those things where, like, I, as I get older, I have, like, I can.

I was actually thinking about this today. At some point, I don't, I don't think trauma exists anymore. I think we, it's just our day to day.

Seth:

Yeah.

Will:

I think we're at a point where we can't go, like, oh, that was a traumatic event. You just have to go, no, that's life. This is what life is now.

Seth:

Yeah. Scars on scars.

Will:

Yeah. Where it's just to a point where you're like, I can't. I haven't healed from the last six years, let alone what happened three days ago.

Seth:

Yeah.

Will:

So I, it was like:

Nashville is a fairly safe city, but there are certain pockets that you go, I don't want to be driving here at a certain point at night. And I was like, it's 11 o' clock on Thursday. Should be fine. So pretty early. And I come pulling up, and I looked like a party was letting out.

And it's my last. It's my. It's like, my last one.

And so, like, you know, I'm seeing people hanging out or whatever, and this guy comes up to the door, and he starts smoking a joint at the door. And I was like, oh, okay, I'm going to be sitting here for a minute. So he's, like, yelling back at the people sitting on the stoop.

And I just think they're still just having a conversation. I just think it's like the end of a party. They're drunk, whatever.

And then finally he, like, throws it down, throws the joint down, gets in the car, and he's like, man, turn this up. And I was like, listen, like, Sturgill Simpson. It was not like. And not like his rock album, you know? Like, it was like, in bloom, like, worship.

Yeah, yeah. And so he, like. So I turn it up, and then I turned the car around.

And honestly, I should have just driven away because it took him so long to get in, but, you know, I would have had to, like, go up, turn around, get around. Like, it would. It was not easy, easy. And he gets in, tells me to turn it up. I start pulling out, and he goes, man, turn that down.

So I turn it down, and then he's like, man, what did he say? He was like, man, I don't know. And end of, like, a. He said something, and then he was like. He was like, yeah, that guy just punched me in the face.

And I was like, what? Look at my eye. And I turn around, and he's like, oral bone is like. Like, he's got this lump sticking out from under it.

Like his orbital bones clearly cracked. And it's like, well and so. And I was like, oh, my God, dude, you want to take you to the hospital? He's like, no, you're driving me home.

I'm getting my gun, I'm coming back, and I'm killing this motherfucker.

Seth:

Oh, my God.

Will:

And I was like, all right, 13 more minutes to go on this drive. And now we're on the highway. He's behind me. And the guy is drunk, he's high. He's clearly concussed, you know, and so he's just not making Sense.

He's talking about P. Diddy. He's talking about, like. And it was like, one of these things where you kind of ramble, ramble, ramble, and then go, and know what else?

And you're like, what? And then you just go on a ramble, ramble, ramble. You know? But he's saying some really, like, horrible things.

And then he starts telling me his plan to kill this guy. Tells me his brother's name. His brother's going to help him. And then he's. I hear him something, like, mumble something about $40,000.

And I was like, what was that? I missed. And then we get a little closer, and he's like, yeah, man, I'll give you. I'll give you 20 grand if you. If you pick up my brother.

And we, like, give us a minute to get our stuff and come back and kill this guy. And I was like. In my head, I'm like, this is the worst criminal ever. Because the whole thing is being documented as I'm driving around for Uber.

And also, like, I'm in a bright green Subaru.

Seth:

Yeah.

Will:

Like, it's not like. Like a car that, like. Oh, man, there's so many. You know, like a gray silver Camry. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like, it's like, it' oh, no.

There's three of these in the whole city. And we're gonna figure out which one drives Ruber. And it's. The whole case is done, you know, and so, like, keeps going, keeps going.

And then he's like, gets out of the car immediately, takes a piss. We're at his place, he takes a piss. So I can't drive away. Cause he's got the door open, taking a piss, basically on my wheels.

And I was like, this sucks. Oh, my God. And then he's like, all right, yes. So 20 grand. Know what? I can do 40. I'll do 40 grand. You just, like, wait a couple minutes.

And I was like, I just look at him. Went, no, man. And he was like, I knew you were a practical guy. And he was like, hey, I like.

And he's like, I like you, but check the news tomorrow because I'm gonna kill this. And he, like, shuts my door and walks.

Seth:

God.

Will:

And then I, like, I, I. I picked up one more thing. So I had a reason to be like, no, I gotta go, man. I gotta pick up somebody, you know?

And I pick up, like, this old guy who's just got off work and, you know, gets in the car, and he's had, like, one of those 12 hour days. You can tell he's been doing. He's been living life like this for, like, 50 of his 70 years.

He just gets in, he's tired, he's like, man, how's your day been? Just like, it's fine. It's fine.

Kyle:

You're already a much better passenger.

Will:

Yeah. So. So that was. That was my collateral.

Seth:

Damn.

Will:

And the funny thing is, he, like, where he lives, I pass that place all the time. Like, it's a very popular area. And I was like, tell me he owned the building. And I was like, you. You would be so easy to find if you killed this guy.

Kyle:

Yeah.

Will:

Like, if you actually own this building and everything. Like, I was like, you seem like the worst criminal that ever existed.

Seth:

That's insane. At least it wasn't Tom Cruise with a terrible dye job.

Kyle:

Yeah. There's a reason behind that dye job.

Will:

That kept me from seeing that movie for so long.

Kyle:

Really?

Will:

Seriously. That was like, why? I was like. I was like, it doesn't look like.

Kyle:

It'S one of Tom Cruise's best performances.

Seth:

He did a really good job. But, yeah. The dye job.

Kyle:

Yeah.

Seth:

Yeah. I'm curious to hear.

Kyle:

Yeah.

Seth:

Why that happened. That.

Will:

What if he brought it back now?

Seth:

Yeah, Yeah.

Kyle:

I know. He doesn't age and he's still hanging off the sides of planes doing stunts.

Seth:

Yeah.

Kyle:

The whole suit. I don't even have a random for it. I'll go into it now. The reason he did the. The gray hair and the gray suit is because.

And this is how crazy specific Michael Mann is. This is why I think you'd love the commentary. He purposely. For one. Like, one example, Michael Mann wanted him to have a finely tailored suit.

Seth:

Yeah.

Kyle:

But he did not want it to look like it was tailored in New York or London. It's a. It's a. Specifically, like a Thailand cut.

Seth:

Oh.

Kyle:

Like, it's like, what you would.

Will:

It's got to be west coast, then.

Kyle:

Yeah. Well, like. Like actually in Bangkok, though, because he wanted to put off the idea that when he's not here doing jobs, he lives in Thailand.

Will:

Got it.

Kyle:

And he dyes his hair and the goatee because he wanted him to be just grayed out so that he just kind of fades into the background.

Seth:

That makes sense.

Kyle:

This is a guy who just kind of weaves.

Will:

Yeah.

Kyle:

In and out. Because he. Michael Mann says that he's like. He probably doesn't actually have gray hair. He says, but we just needed him to be. Because think about it.

It's like if a guy in a taxicab shoots A bunch of people. And he's seen. And you have to describe him as a guy with gray hair and a gray suit.

Seth:

Yeah.

Kyle:

It's like, you're never gonna find that guy.

Will:

Yeah, yeah.

Kyle:

And then he flies back to Thailand, which.

Seth:

Yeah, I gotta say, he just looked like a poorly aged Tony Stark.

Kyle:

Yeah, yeah.

Seth:

Like, it was. It was so the. The. It makes sense, but I don't know, it.

Kyle:

I think a little distracting.

Seth:

Little distracting?

Kyle:

Distracting, Yeah.

Will:

I think if it wasn't Tom Cruise, it wouldn't have been.

Kyle:

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Will:

Like, I think it's one of those where it's just because he's such a distinct looking person.

Seth:

Yeah.

Well, you say that, though, but the whole time, for like, the first 15 minutes that mark Ruffalo was in the movie, I was like, why does this guy look like Michael Pena?

Kyle:

Yeah, he did.

Seth:

He looked so much like Michael Pena. It took me so long to realize that it was Mark Ruffalo.

Kyle:

You know, it's funny, you're making. You actually made me think of a really interesting point.

Like, pre Internet, Tom Cruise, like, there are people whose personalities precede them in such a way that even when you're watching them on screen pretend to be something else, it's kind of hard to forget who they are.

Seth:

Yeah.

Kyle:

Tom Cruise before the age of the Internet, was that person.

Seth:

Yeah.

Kyle:

With the Katie Holmes stuff.

Seth:

Oh, yeah.

Kyle:

And the Nicole Kidman stuff and his. That was like, he. He was the. The celebrity that people obsessed over for years.

Will:

Oh, yeah.

Kyle:

While the Internet was coming in, like, you just would hear things about, like, Scientology and all the things, and so, like, you're glib. Yeah, yeah. It's hard, some people. It's kind of hard to shake the. The personality stuff that you know about.

Seth:

Yeah.

Will:

Because people, like, hated him for a minute too. There was, like, when people, like, I remember when Mission Impossible came out, one of the mission. I don't remember which one.

Seth:

I think it was actually two, because it was awful.

Will:

Oh, no, it was past that. Because I remember that's when I would hear people be like, oh, I just won't see Tom Cruise now.

Kyle:

Yeah.

Will:

And I remember in my head being like, is it like. It was like, before Cancel Culture too.

Kyle:

Yeah.

Will:

Where in my mind, where I was like, am I a bad person for seeing Tom Cruise? I still kind of like him.

Seth:

It was probably all the Scientology stuff.

Will:

Well, yeah, no, it was 100 stuff.

Seth:

It was.

Kyle:

He tried to turn Katie Holmes into a Scientology wife and try to get her inducted into it. That's at least what I heard. I don't keep up with celebrity. But I guess then I did.

Will:

He brought her to Nashville. That empty building that I'm convinced nothing's in. They just own the building.

Seth:

My friend has gone to that, and they actually do meet. There's.

Will:

There's five people.

Seth:

No, it's a whole fucking congregation.

Will:

Yeah.

Kyle:

Yeah.

Seth:

But literally, he said the moment he walked in the door, like, four people tried to get his email address.

Will:

Yeah. I had some friends sit in on it once, and they said they had to watch a movie.

And it's like it was just the two of them in a theater, and they were like, we're being watched.

Seth:

Yeah.

Kyle:

Like, was it Vanilla Sky? Oh, maybe you've been abducted by a man with a bad dye job and a Bangkok suit.

Seth:

Yeah.

Kyle:

And you haven't shared Movie wars yet. And in your last dying breath, that's what you're gonna say. You're gonna say, I should have shared Movie Wars.

And then some guy's gonna kill you because you're not doing a very good driving around. You're not doing a good job.

Seth:

Then you wreck the car and flip him, and then he somehow survives, and you somehow survive and almost get arrested.

Will:

Dude.

Kyle:

And you didn't watch Will Special.

Seth:

Yeah.

Kyle:

You are not the pride of Hagertown. You are. Is it that right?

Will:

Hagerstown.

Kyle:

Hagerstown. Sorry, I always say it wrong.

Seth:

You were the shame.

Kyle:

You were the shame of that town. You of that town. You deserve everything coming your way. Share Movie Wars.

Will:

Love you. See, I love that you said that, because that is my. That is my. My villain arc.

Kyle:

Yeah.

Will:

That is what I want. I want to become so famous that at some point, I do become the shame of Hagerstown.

Kyle:

Yes.

Seth:

There you go.

Will:

And then. And then I have to. You know, then I have to. Robert Downey Jr. And completely like.

Kyle:

Yeah. LeBron James. It.

Will:

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Kyle:

Like Cleveland. Yeah.

Will:

Come all the way back.

Kyle:

I do like that art. And then along the way, you pick up, like, a hybrid religion.

Seth:

Yeah.

Kyle:

Like a. Like an east mysticism, Christianity, you know, some strange politics from Greenland.

Will:

Yeah.

Kyle:

Mold.

Seth:

Russell. Russell Brand, but less rapey.

Will:

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Like, just, like, some enlightenment. Like, they're like, oh, what. What got you? Like, how did you find enlightenment?

You're like, I just stopped drinking.

Kyle:

I became. I became the shame.

Will:

Yeah. And then I became the shame. And then I got so, so dark. When you had. Yeah, I actually took the Aaron Rodgers model.

Kyle:

Yeah.

Will:

And I just sat in a cave for three days. It came out was like, I should go to the Jets.

Kyle:

That, that, that documentary my wife may be watching. I love football, but I was like, I don't want to hear Aaron Rodgers.

Will:

Talk for a documentary.

Kyle:

Yeah, it's like a three part. It's really interesting.

But the funniest takeaway for me was like the whole things about him doing ayahuasca is he wanted to find himself and become a better person. He just becomes more annoying and a worse person. But the whole time he's talking about how he's becoming a better person.

Seth:

Yeah.

Kyle:

I'm like, dude, stop doing ayahuasca. It's actually making you worse.

Will:

You're honestly with some celebrities like, like, especially like, like athletes. I don't, I don't think we need to put pressure on them to be like good, good or bad people to a degree. You know what I mean?

Like, like because you have to, you, your whole life has to be just football or basketball when you're coming up until you get to a certain point and then there's like a 13 year career where like you're doing just commercial. Like the only escape from football is like doing a commercial.

Seth:

Yeah.

Will:

You know, and you don't really have any time. It's like, it's like child actors when they become like crazy at 25 or 26, it's like, well, yeah.

Because they were expected to be a 30 year old man when they were eight.

Seth:

Yeah.

Will:

You know, like they've lost their childhood.

Seth:

They don't know how to pay taxes at 7.

Kyle:

Yeah.

Will:

Like they don't know how to be a person. So I don't, I really don't think we should ever be like, like when, when like Aaron Rodgers like, hey, this is the thing I'm doing.

We're all like, this guy sucks.

Seth:

Yeah.

Will:

Yeah, he does suck. But also we shouldn't be making a documentary about it in the first place.

Kyle:

Yeah, no, it's a good point. Yeah.

Seth:

This is on us especially.

Kyle:

And it's like, and I hate politicians. I hate all of them. I don't care what side. Like I hate them all.

Seth:

Yeah.

Kyle:

And them. And it's not making that endorsement.

I just even, I just even decided I'm not even an independent anymore because that like suggests that and there's a Venn diagram in the middle that you can maybe take the best. There's no.

Will:

Oh yeah. Because then you can't vote. I was an independent for a long time because I was like, I'm just going to stay here.

Like when I was like 18 and they were like, hey, you're 18 years old. You should make a decision that's going to affect the rest of your life. And I was like, no problem.

Kyle:

Yeah, the questions, the questions, the questions. Is the least believable thing about this movie. A cabbie getting a D or getting the DA's phone number.

Seth:

I mean, it is Jamie Foxx we're talking about. Like, yeah, doesn't. It doesn't matter if he looks slightly like Eddie Murphy in this movie, he's still getting numbers.

Kyle:

Yeah.

Will:

I mean, to be fair, I have the DA of New York's number.

Kyle:

There you go.

Will:

It's not that.

Seth:

Well, you are the pride of Hagerstown. You are mean.

Will:

Yeah, I know some people. You know what I mean? You know, you start walking around, you're throwing out the first pitch at a minor league stadium.

Kyle:

Yeah. Yeah. That changes your trajectory, I think.

Will:

I think it is. I think it's like, what is it.

Seth:

Minor league or was. Were there minors playing and the Little league?

Will:

Like, they did. They asked me to not do it. I just walked out like, hold up, kid. I'm throwing the first pitch like the game started.

Kyle:

Move, Jimmy.

Seth:

It's the third inning.

Will:

Look, I made out your sister once. Get out of the way.

Kyle:

Yeah, this made me think of other cab. My second favorite movie all time is Taxi Driver.

And like, you look at Robert Dairo in that movie, it's like, yeah, he wasn't getting nobody's numbers.

Will:

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Kyle:

Jamie looks a little too good to be. And listen, I'm not trying to on cab drivers. I'm just saying, like, I've taken many cabs in New York and I'm. I'd never got the Jamie Foxx.

Seth:

Hey, cabbie.

Kyle:

It was.

Seth:

It was temporary and it was la. It was in New York.

Kyle:

That's true. I actually never took a cab in la.

Will:

I don't.

Seth:

I took plenty of Ubers.

Will:

Yeah.

Seth:

I got driven by a guy who grows mushrooms and he invited me to come back and do yoga and take mushrooms with him.

Will:

So, no, Uber and Lyft were out by the time I got to la, so I don't think I took any cabs.

Kyle:

Yeah.

Will:

Or we drove. Like, that was the. That I remember that being like.

Because I was in college the first time I went, and I remember being that, like, one of the taboo things were like, yeah, yeah, people. People just like, drink and drive here. What? They're like, yeah. I mean, we always have, like a designated driver, but they still have, like a couple.

Yeah, we were like, you know, college kids. We were like, yeah, you know.

Seth:

Oh, my God.

Kyle:

Designated just means they can formulate sentences.

Will:

Yeah.

Kyle:

If they can do that.

Will:

Well, I remember there were some bars we went to that they were like, all right, who's your. Who's your driver? And, like, they would give us a wristband and, like, you go to the bar and they'd be like, yep, you're not drinking.

You'd be like, I'm gonna get this off, and you just rip it, you know?

Kyle:

Yeah. But, yeah, it's funny now we both quit drinking.

Seth:

Yeah.

Kyle:

Now it's just like, what's it all for?

Will:

Now I'm just driving. Like, this was way more fun before.

Kyle:

We're always designated.

Seth:

I hate that I can remember this.

Kyle:

Yeah. So weird. I do love club soda.

Will:

Waking up and not being surprised that I got home. Yeah. Whoa. Yeah, there we are.

Seth:

There's something to look forward to.

Will:

Come out, the car's there.

Kyle:

You're like, damn it, I didn't run over anybody or anything. Very weird. Very weird.

Will:

Oh, no. I don't have any missing parts of my car.

Kyle:

Yeah.

Will:

My tires aren't shredded for some reason.

Seth:

Oh, damn. There's not an entire deer embedded into my windshield.

Will:

Yeah, yeah, right. I'll deal with this one tomorrow. Made it home, though. I'm like, on my neighbor's. My neighbor's driveway.

Kyle:

Second question. So there is this undertone. You kind of alluded to it with it being Jamie Fox because he was a standup comedian. I guess he still is.

I guess he's still trying to do stuff.

Will:

He did. He.

Seth:

He did a one man show. It was definitely not. Not strictly standup. It was a one man show. Kind of like, very funny TED Talk kind of situation.

Kyle:

Is that also the one where he had, like, a bunch of Diddy subtext.

Seth:

Where he was kind of like, oh, not even subtext.

Kyle:

Really?

Seth:

I'm pretty sure he flat out.

Kyle:

Yeah, yeah, man.

Will:

I need to see that because I.

He was one of the people I got to work with at the Oscars, and, like, I've never seen his stand up, so I can't comment to it, but, like, he is one of those people that. And there's not a lot, but, like, he walked in and, like, immediately you feel better.

Seth:

Yeah.

Kyle:

Yeah.

Will:

Like, he has a. He does have an aura around him. And he's like, not. He's just a very, very funny, entertaining human.

Kyle:

Yeah.

Seth:

His impressions are incredible.

Will:

Yeah.

Seth:

Like, so good.

Kyle:

Yeah.

Seth:

What everybody.

Kyle:

What you hear from other comedians that worked with him at the time was that he was not someone you wanted to follow.

Will:

Yeah. Because he just, like, he Lights up a room like, he. He snuck. We were doing a rehearsal. We were doing the dance number for the Lego Movie.

I don't know if you remember. That was the year Neil Patrick Harris was the host.

Seth:

Yeah.

Will:

So we're doing the dance number for the Lego Movie, and, like, we, like, without, like, I don't know, like, half the dancers just stopped working, and we were like, what is going on?

So, like, you know, the director yells, cut, and we all turn, and Jamie Foxx is, like, giving one of them a back rub, like, telling some joke, and we're like. And, like, they're all just, like, laughing, having a great time, and we're like, oh, this is the only person that could interrupt the rehearsal.

Kyle:

Yeah.

Will:

Okay.

Seth:

Yeah. Literally. Yeah.

Will:

We're all, like, upset because we weren't part of it.

Seth:

Yeah.

Kyle:

You know, so knowing the subtext, let's pretend like he's not a comedian in real life, as comedians.

Seth:

Yeah.

Kyle:

In this situation, how would you react if you were maxed?

Seth:

I. Yeah, probably. Probably the same way. The moment, like, a gun comes out, I'm just like, all right, it. I'm here.

Will:

Let's. Yeah.

Seth:

Get me through this.

Kyle:

Yeah.

Seth:

Either way, I'm gonna die pro.

Kyle:

So you wouldn't comment on the dye job?

Seth:

I mean, I might have before the gun came out.

Will:

I should have known with a hair, like, hairstyle like that.

Seth:

Yeah.

Kyle:

You were gonna pull a gun on me, man.

Seth:

Looks like you matched your suit to your hair today.

Will:

Yeah. I feel like it's gonna be one of those. We just go, what are you gonna do with that?

Seth:

Yeah.

Kyle:

Where are you taking that haircut?

Seth:

Save some for the rest of us.

Will:

I meant the gun, but, yeah. Yeah.

Kyle:

How about you? You've kind of been there already.

Will:

Yeah.

You just kind of accept it, and you're just like, all right, well, because I had a gun pulled on me once, and it is, like, one of those moments for you. Just, like. I mean, it was completely an act. Of all the times having a gun pulled on you can be an accident. It was actually a genuine accident.

Kyle:

Yeah.

Will:

It was in Brooklyn back in:

Seth:

Hey, that's you doing?

Will:

Yeah, he just opened the door, and he was just like, what's up? I was like, oh, I live upstairs. Sorry, man, we haven't met. Like, I just. I'm locked out. And he was like, oh, okay.

And I'm walking by and he's like, holding his gun. And I was like, fucking gun. And he was like, yeah, dude, sorry. And then, like, the next day, I ran into him. He was smoking. Smoking out front.

And he was like, dude, I was just telling my friend about you. I'm so sorry for having the gun on me. Blah, blah. I was like, nah, man. I'm banging on the door, three of them. He was like, yeah.

He's like, dude, I'm a security guard. That's why I have a gun. And he's also. Someone broke into my car the other night, and there's, like, a lot of gang shit that happens around here.

He's like, also, you shouldn't be walking around at 3am And I was like, life experiences are learned, you know? Yeah.

Seth:

Yeah.

I think only the craziest thing that happened to me while I was driving for Lyft was I picked up one girl and she was, like, hammered and was on the phone bitching about someone, and then she just hangs up and starts talking to me. And she's like, I'm just so tired of all the work discrimination. Like, it's not my fault my boobs are so big.

Like, you can't fire me because I got big boobs. And I'm literally just, like, sneaking a look in the mirror. I'm like, what is your definition of too big? Like, what's going on here?

They weren't too big, but, yeah, it was. That's the weirdest thing that happened to me while I was driving.

Kyle:

How about those Mets? Did you watch that Aaron Rodgers documentary or what?

Will:

Yeah. It just changes the subject immediately.

Kyle:

Yeah.

Seth:

Those mats wouldn't know anything about that.

Kyle:

I think I. When I get under pressure or I'm, like, really stressed, I. I talk angrily at myself.

Seth:

Yeah.

Kyle:

Like, even if, like, I stub my toe, I like, you idiot. You would stop your toe, you piece of.

Will:

Yeah.

Seth:

And, like, you're just in the front seat. Fucking stupid. Yeah.

Kyle:

I knew I'd fucking die at work.

Seth:

I knew it.

Will:

Yeah. I don't even know who I'm talking to when I. Because I know what you're talking about. And I do that, too. But, like, I'm not talking to me.

I'm talking to, like, something.

Kyle:

Yeah.

Will:

Just, you know, like, I slammed my universe. My elbow on, like, the fridge last night. I was, like, grabbing because I just was driving all day yesterday and Like, I slammed my elbow.

I just went, come on.

Seth:

Yes.

Will:

And I don't even know who it was for. I don't know if it was for me. For God. Like, I just. Like. I was just like, come on. And so you do it too. Yeah. Yeah.

Kyle:

So glad. My wife has overheard me in my office talking out loud.

Seth:

My wife, they say it's like, a sign of intelligence.

Will:

Someone.

Kyle:

Really?

Seth:

Yeah. Talk to yourself. Yeah.

Kyle:

That I'm Einstein, dude.

Will:

Oh, yeah.

Kyle:

Oh, my God.

Will:

Smart boys change the name. It's the smart boy pod now. Yes. It's just you and I talking to ourselves.

Seth:

That's just watching. Being like, this stereo. So it's coming through. You're coming through this ear. You're coming through this ear.

And it's the most, like, confusing schizophrenic conversation ever.

Kyle:

We just get three rooms, microphone in each, and we just record. Just.

Will:

And then we just throw it together. Billy. Billy Wayne Davis tweeted something about, you know, J.D. vance. Like, just, like, everything he touches dies.

Seth:

Yeah.

Will:

Like, including the Pope.

Kyle:

Yeah.

Will:

Like, he had that thing where, like, the. He lifted up that trophy and it fell apart.

Seth:

Yeah.

Will:

And, like, Billy Wayne Davis reposted that picture, and he was like. He just, like, I've never seen a guy, like, trying so hard knowing that he's not supposed to be here.

Seth:

Yeah.

Will:

You know, like, when you get to that moment, you're like, I'm not supposed to. This party's way too cool for me to be here. And I was like, he looks like a golfer that always talks to himself.

Kyle:

Yeah.

Will:

You know, like. You know, like, they cut to, like, the golfers, like, they had a badge, and they're like, come. Come on.

Seth:

Yeah.

Will:

Like, he looks like he says at every moment of the day, just, like, come on, J.D. then you find out.

Kyle:

Yeah.

Will:

Find out, J.D. his accent gets progressively more Southern because he's faking it the whole time, you know, like.

Kyle:

Yeah.

Seth:

Starts calling himself Alice.

Will:

Yeah.

Kyle:

That dude stubbed his toe a lot.

Will:

Yeah, yeah, yeah. But just, like, the toe is life.

Kyle:

That's hysterical. I can kind of relate to that, though, because I do have days where I'm like, everything I did today sucked, and I killed some stuff. Every.

I ruined everything today.

Seth:

Do you have the conclusion that I probably can never invite JD Vance over because Harry has formed such a perfect couch into the couch that I'm really scared that J.D. vance would just start my couch.

Will:

I was like, how you started that sentence? And I thought, in what world is JD Vance on your couch?

Seth:

You never know.

Kyle:

Well, you're Replacing him. He was supposed to be our guest today.

Will:

Did he actually watch the movie?

Seth:

He did both of them, and then.

Kyle:

He tariffed both of them.

Seth:

Yeah.

Will:

Oh, God. Yeah. But no, when you finished that and you were like, oh, he's gonna fuck my couch, I was like, oh, there it is. There it is.

Okay, now it makes sense. I thought I was like, oh, these visions of grandeur where you're like, yeah, and next week we got Donald J. Trump. Yeah.

Seth:

Almost.

Kyle:

Randos.

Seth:

Randos.

Kyle:

Oh, yeah.

Seth:

Oh, yeah.

Kyle:

Oh, I love how my voice sounds in this microphone.

Will:

They're good microphones.

Kyle:

This is crazy. Before Tom Cruise and Jamie Foxx, this was going to be Russell Crowe and Adam Sandler.

Will:

Hold on. Are you serious?

Seth:

Hold on. Who was. Who. Who was playing who?

Will:

This would have been like, Adam Sandler's kind of like, maybe I can be a serious actor.

Kyle:

Yeah.

Seth:

Like, this was that time uncut gems before uncut gems.

Will:

Yeah. He was doing like, he did Paul Thomas Anderson.

Kyle:

Yeah. Punch Drunk love.

Will:

Yeah.

Seth:

So wait, who was. Who was gonna play Russell Crowe?

Kyle:

Was gonna be Vincent.

Seth:

Okay.

Kyle:

I don't hate it.

Seth:

Could have been interesting, I think.

Will:

Yeah.

Kyle:

What's funny is Adam Sandler turned it down because he was working on Spanglish, and. But the reason he turned it down, because he did. He didn't know if he could play this dark of a role.

Seth:

Yeah.

Kyle:

Which is funny because eventually he would play some pretty dark roles. And so now I'm like, I actually think that could have worked.

Will:

Yeah. Like old Nikki when he was the devil's son. That was very dark.

Seth:

Yeah.

Kyle:

Yeah. Well, uncut gems is like. That's like. That's funny. Yeah. Okay, here's what you did there.

Seth:

The weird thing.

Will:

I was like, yeah, obviously I'm a good.

Seth:

The weird thing is I think that that could actually work, because unlike before the devil knows you're dead, which we covered, the script stands on its own in this case.

Kyle:

Yeah.

Seth:

Like, I think. I think Jamie Foxx and Jada Pinkett Smith and. And. And Tom Cruise and Mark Ruffalo all did a great job in their roles.

Kyle:

Yeah.

Seth:

But I think the script stood on its own enough that it could have easily been transferred to any competent actor, and it still would have been a good movie. So. No, I actually, I could see that work. I. Especially Russell Crowe back then, I think, could have played a very unassuming sociopathic killer.

Kyle:

Yeah.

Seth:

I weirdly. Yeah. I also think:

Will:

Has Russell Crowe ever played someone that Dark.

Seth:

Oh, yeah. Recently. Well, he did that. That Pope horror film, but there was another one where he was some, like, redneck murderer in a truck.

Will:

Yeah, I missed this one.

Seth:

That was. Yeah, that was in the last couple of years since he's just enjoyed getting fat.

Will:

Yeah. Why did he. Because he's. I feel like he was sort of like the same thing. We're talking about Tom Cruise, where it was like the Scientology stuff.

We were like, let's. Let's back up on Tom Cruise for a second. Why did Russell Crowe kind of disappear for a minute?

Seth:

I think he was just happy with. With the big things that he had done and. And was ready to step back. And I know.

I know his parents have moved in with him and live on his ranch with him in the bush of Australia. He has a ranch that he literally, like.

Will:

I thought you were joking.

Seth:

No, no. 100.

Will:

Until you got to. Until you got to. On his ranch. I was like. I was like, God damn it. Yeah.

Kyle:

So I would do more movies if my parents moved in with me, if my dad wasn't dead.

Seth:

Well, that's the thing is, like, his. Well, his dad did die, and so his. And the reason they moved in with him is because his dad was dying.

And so then after that happened, he told this whole story a while ago on how he went back to Italy with his mom, who hadn't been there since she had gone with. With his dad. So it was like a big thing.

Will:

Oh, okay.

Seth:

But I think he. I think he just wanted to step back and take more character driven roles. I mean, granted, he was in fucking Thor, Love and Thunder.

Like, he still takes big roles when he wants to.

Will:

No, I mean, I liked. I liked the. The. Not the other guys. Nice guys.

Seth:

Yeah.

Kyle:

Yeah.

Will:

I was like, yeah, this is fun. I haven't seen him in a while.

Seth:

So I think he's just able to be picky, which is kind of the goal if you're gonna be an actor like that.

Will:

What? Given the way that Gladiator 2 went.

Seth:

I didn't see it.

Will:

Okay. I sat back at some point and went, oh, this isn't a sequel. This is just an action movie. Yeah. And I was able to really enjoy it. But with if, If.

If they had had the hindsight of going, hey, we just made an action movie, I would have loved if Russell Crowe just, like, made an appearance, like, a proper appearance.

Like, and just like, there's like a, like, say, like, in the coliseum, and he just showed back up, like, almost like Rambo style, but with swords and just. Just Saved his son.

Kyle:

Yeah.

Will:

I would have been amped.

Seth:

That would have been good.

Will:

If they just be like, you know what? We tried to make a serious movie and. Yeah, really? We just made an action film.

Seth:

Yeah.

Kyle:

It's an interesting observation because there are actors who, like, dedicate themselves to that life in that world. Russell Crowe, I. I can't remember. We covered Gladiator like, three or four years ago.

Will:

Okay.

Kyle:

But I'm trying to remember. Russell Crowe was not the lead. He wasn't the lead to play that role originally. Like, he was not the first. No.

Seth:

Because he was. He was pretty unknown.

Kyle:

Unknown.

Will:

Was it like, Mel Gibson or something?

Kyle:

No. Well, I do. You might be right. Mel Gibson's name was tossed around both as director and as a actor for that one.

Will:

He, like, won't get off. Like, he, like, won't stop talking about the Jews.

Seth:

Yeah.

Kyle:

This is. This is a different era.

Will:

And you're like. The weird part is you are actually being historically accurate, but we don't think you're doing it on purpose.

Kyle:

Yeah, I'm trying to remember. But anyway, I. That was one of those weird situations, and it doesn't happen often, but he just was propelled.

Seth:

Yeah.

Kyle:

To.

Will:

Well, yeah. I mean, that movie was fantastic, and.

Kyle:

It was just part of the cultural zeitgeist, you know, it just was such a cool.

Seth:

It took the. The Best Picture Oscar from Fellowship of the Ring.

Kyle:

Yeah.

Seth:

Like. Yeah.

Kyle:

Which is wild.

Seth:

Yeah.

Will:

And in my mind, those are two different. Different worlds, like, years even. You know what I mean? Yeah.

Seth:

I mean, they came out the same year.

Will:

No, no, no, I know, but I'm saying, in my mind, like, I even thought that that would be in contention with each other.

Seth:

Yeah. Well, I mean, Gladiator was the summer blockbuster, and then Lord of the Rings was the Christmas kind of. Yeah. So, yeah.

Kyle:

Yeah.

Seth:

I could see how that would happen.

Kyle:

But some people, like, maybe he got. This happens. Like, maybe he just got propelled to fame and he's like, yeah, I'm here. I'm getting good royalties on this.

Seth:

I mean, he had some. Some bangers, like, for the next. Like, because he did A Beautiful Mind. He did Cinderella Man.

Like, he had Cinderella, whole series of bangers for the next 10 years. Really. I mean. I mean, almost 15 years. Because, I mean, I know Noah was kind of a bit of a.

Of a controversial movie, but I thought he did an incredible job in that movie.

Will:

I only saw it once, and I honestly don't remember.

Kyle:

I didn't know of that.

Seth:

It's. It's very funny. It's. It's it's treated more like biblical mythology, which I kind of enjoyed, like this kind of fantastical view of it.

Will:

Yeah, because that's like Tolkien's whole thing where he's like, myths are real because they had to come from somewhere.

Seth:

Exactly.

Will:

Yeah.

Seth:

So again, it was controversial at the time, but I thought. I thought it was really good. And he was talking about how right after that is when he really took a step back.

Will:

Oh, okay.

Kyle:

One that doesn't get talked about enough to me is the other Ridley Scott movie, did Body of lies with Leonardo DiCaprio.

Seth:

Oh, I haven't seen that one.

Kyle:

Really good. There's a really gruesome scene in that movie. I won't say, but I love it.

Seth:

He did a movie called Next Three Days where it's him breaking his wife out of prison. And that was a shockingly great movie. That really flew under the radar.

Will:

I saw that one. Yeah, I don't remember it.

Kyle:

This is called the Crow Appreciation Club.

Will:

So would Collateral Ben, because I feel like Jamie Foxx, this would have been when he was kind of like starting to be taken more seriously. Right.

Seth:

This was a couple years before Law Abiding Citizens. So this probably really pushed him out of the idea of being a comedian and became a serious actor.

Will:

Yeah. And the one with Robert Downey Jr. When he's the violinist.

Kyle:

Yep.

Will:

The cellist. What's it called?

Kyle:

Yeah, yeah, the. And then Ray would come out the next year.

Will:

Oh, Ray, Ray. That's what. Yeah, yeah, that was the big one.

Seth:

Yeah. As much as, like, I know this movie is. Is reasonably famous. I heard. I was. I've been re. Watching Psych.

And they actually just referred to it on an episode.

Kyle:

Oh, really?

Seth:

Yeah. That I watched recently. So it's like, I know it was in. In the Zeitgeist, but I didn't.

I don't think this was like such a big movie that it like propelled anyone to any type of stardom. But I think it really gave Jamie Foxx the opportunity to take on much bigger, more serious roles because he's not just a comedian anymore.

Will:

Do you guys. Because you guys definitely know film way better than I do.

Do you think currently, or at least in the last like three or four years, because it's just something I'm sort of observing.

But I feel like it's harder to see someone kind of like just blow up the way these guys have, like, in terms of like, okay, like, I'll do this movie, then I'll do this movie, and then this one's a little bit like pushing me a little bit more as an actor and then I'll be taken seriously in this movie and then I do something very. I feel like now it's like Hollywood's like, hey, we have these five boys.

Seth:

Yeah.

Will:

And they're playing every role and you guys just have to swallow it.

Seth:

There's a lot of that. But then every now and then you'll have someone like a Glen Powell who's in like three very famous movies right back to back in the same year.

And he's now kind of been been pushed into the heartthrob kind of situation. And I feel like you give him another three years and he'll pick an incredibly dark, character driven movie.

And while I don't think we really have any new movie stars, as much as people love Timothee Chalamet, he's not the reason Dune is doing well. Neither is Zendaya. It's the whole, whole thing of the film. But you don't really have movie stars that are the reason people go see movies anymore.

I think Glenn Powell is going to become the closest thing.

Kyle:

Tom Hardy kind of in that.

Will:

Ryan Gosling's another one. Like I'll see a movie just because.

Kyle:

Because.

Seth:

Oh yeah. But they're kind of the very end of that era.

Will:

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay.

Kyle:

Tom Hardy's doing so many different. Like he's now, you know, with Venom. He's ventured into that world.

Will:

Yeah.

Kyle:

He's done incredible TV with Peaky Blinders. Like he is touched.

Seth:

Very character driven. Indie movies. Lock. If you haven't seen that, that's one of the most incredible movies I've ever seen. Just in one location the whole time.

Kyle:

We've got to cover it.

Seth:

We do.

Kyle:

I really want to.

Will:

And what's the one where he plays the, the serial killer? Oh, like the base on the real guy.

Kyle:

Oh, Bronson. Bronson by my favorite, one of my favorite directors, Nicholas Winden Refn.

Will:

Yeah.

Seth:

Yeah.

Kyle:

That's incredible film.

Will:

I also just like interviews with Tom Hardy are always like, he's just like everything about him. Like, what?

Seth:

He's just a dude.

Will:

Yeah, he's so great. Yeah, he's so great. Yeah. Like he'll like drop some like really profound statement and he's like silly.

Kyle:

Yeah.

Will:

This is actually so funny you mentioned Venoms. Because I still need to see the. Well, I have sort of seen the latest Venom.

Seth:

Yeah.

Will:

The day before I decided to stop drinking, I was like just kind of on like a three week bender and it was like my last day of like, what am I doing My life. So I went. I was like, you know, I'm going to go to the movies and I see Venom because I haven't been in the movie theaters in a while.

So I get out, get out to the mall and I buy my ticket. I have like a hard time buying my ticket, which is how I knew I was like hammered. And I sit down, I went to the bar, I bought a beer.

And I'm sitting there and I didn't realize I bought tickets. Those movies that, like, the chair shakes.

Seth:

You go to 4D.

Will:

So like all of a sudden, like, the movie's about to start. It just is like. And I was like, oh, no. At like the first scene, something like explodes and I just like throw my beer everywhere.

I am laughing maniacally in the back, like, just like throwing beer all over the place. Just like, this is, you know, it's like a $17 beer. Yeah. And I'm just like cracking up. And I was like, I just want to enjoy this movie.

So, like, you're down. It's like still shaking and falling all over me.

And I think I got like maybe an hour into it, and I think I bought another beer and it, like spilled that one too. And I was like, I gotta. I gotta get home.

Kyle:

Thanks. Tom Hardy.

Will:

Yeah. I don't remember anything.

Seth:

Got him sober.

Will:

Yeah.

Kyle:

Tom Hardy is also sober.

Will:

Yeah. Oh, is he? Yeah. There you go.

Kyle:

So he's talked about it so bright a lot. So maybe there's. There's a kismet.

Will:

Tom and I are gonna. When we make the Pride of Hagerstown a live action film. Tom Hardy plays me.

Everyone would be like, like, Will couldn't do any of this, like, for no reason. He's just like jumping between buildings.

Seth:

They reenact your. Your gay bar story. Yeah. He's literally holding it up with his finger. Like, what are you talking about? Of course he's a man.

Kyle:

He has to keep the English accent, though.

Will:

Yeah, but he's also playing. But he's like playing 20 year old will.

Seth:

Yeah.

Will:

Now. And he doesn't shave or anything. They don't do any, like, any digital stuff to his skin. He's just like.

Kyle:

Like.

Will:

Right. Yeah. All right, David.

Kyle:

When was the last time. Why was the last time my dad hugged me?

Will:

They're like, this is actually kind of this, I believe.

Seth:

Yeah.

Kyle:

Cockney Will.

Will:

Dreams, dreams.

Kyle:

Rando number two.

Seth:

Here we go.

Kyle:

I love these stories.

I knew and I knew whenever I saw a taxi cab, I knew there was going to be some preparedness because, like, the way, like, Robert De Niro drove the cab around and after Godfather 2 and people were like, aren't you the guy of Godfather too? And he literally had his little license attached to his seat that said Robert Dairo. It's like, yeah, y. And. But Tom Cruise to.

To work on blending in, became a FedEx driver.

Seth:

Oh, that's funny.

Will:

Did he really?

Kyle:

Yeah. And he.

Seth:

He kind of like now was this like a Donald Trump at McDonald's kind of FedEx driver where it was like for an hour and he took pictures or couldn't find.

Kyle:

I actually think Tom Cruise would go the full mile.

Will:

He wear the hat.

Kyle:

He's a dedicated motherfucker.

Seth:

If Jared Leto can go pretend to be homeless for a month to study for Requiem for a Dream, then, yeah, I could see tomorrow Cruz doing this for a week.

Kyle:

And he also did the John Wick thing where he. He was practicing. He was actually had like, officials govern coaching him on live ammunition so he could.

He really wanted to nail that, like, real, like, which is really good.

Seth:

I mean. Yeah, if you're going to play a world renowned assassin, then. Yeah, you kind of have to be. You have to look the part. You have to be able to do.

Will:

Like, you could, like. Because you can tell when someone's never held a gun.

Seth:

Yeah.

Will:

Like, immediately they're like, yep, here we go. You're like, no, no, that's.

Seth:

That's thug mode. We need to go assassin mode.

Kyle:

Yeah. This is incredible. And it's so funny because of how well it's done.

I never even questioned how they filmed this because I'm pretty sure they didn't do this in Taxi Driver, but they called the cab they filmed in the Pope Mobile because they sliced it in half. They installed a Plexiglas wall.

Seth:

Oh, yeah, yeah, that's pretty common.

Kyle:

And then they attached it to a plaque, like a Plexiglas encased trailer so that you couldn't hear any wind noises or anything like that. They had 30 light strips so they could control the lighting to make it like whatever they wanted to make it look more like the city inside.

They like rigged this thing out. It had. They're called electro luminescent panels.

Seth:

Nice.

Kyle:

And they had 30 of them in there. And like, that's how they made the whole thing look incredible on the inside.

Seth:

Yeah.

Will:

That's awesome.

Seth:

Now that makes sense. Yeah. Yeah. Literally. Yeah. Cutting a car in half like that, that's very common.

Kyle:

Yeah.

Seth:

In filmmaking. So that's really cool.

Will:

Is there an Academy Award for like, the person that did that, that, like.

Seth:

Rigged it up production design.

Will:

They're design with that fell in there.

Kyle:

They do. They do have those. They're called specialty Oscars. I only know that.

Will:

Yeah.

Kyle:

I've interviewed two winners of those for the show. So Mick Rogers, who's Mel Gibson stuntman, but he also. His claim to fame was he.

He got an Oscar for the MC rig, which is why Fast and Furious became such a good movie. Well, I say such a good movie. I don't like them.

Seth:

But you know, Davis.

Will:

But they popular franchise.

Kyle:

Yes. It didn't change because originally they were just going to do it like they had always done it.

Will:

Yeah.

Kyle:

They were going to put the cars on trailers and. And he had this idea to cut the cars in half and attach them to these like trailer rigs.

Seth:

Yeah.

Kyle:

To make them go faster. And it.

Will:

Tyrese can't drive like that.

Kyle:

Yeah, I know. And. But it actually was safe enough to where the. The insurance companies would let the celebrities actually drive the cars.

Will:

Oh, that's awesome.

Kyle:

And so. And because Mick did that and he also used it for Twister.

Seth:

That makes sense.

Kyle:

Yeah. And so he actually sent me. I'll show you after.

But he said he emailed me pictures from him working on Twister using his MC rig for like the Bill Paxton scene when they hit the bridge and the tornado. That was the mc. But yeah, he got an Oscar for that. So.

Will:

Okay, that's cool. That's good because I. That was one thing I liked about fall guys like giving recognition to things that we don't think about, you know?

Seth:

Yeah.

Will:

And so that's. That's awesome.

Seth:

I like that they're doing stunt coordination awards, but they need to add stunt acting. They need to have two.

Two categories for that because the stunt actors don't get enough credit, even if the stunt choreographer is getting the credit. I think they both need the credit and they.

Kyle:

They become filmmakers.

Seth:

Yeah.

Kyle:

Chad. Like these. Chad Stahelski is phenomenal filmmaker. The John Wick series. And he was Keanu's.

Seth:

Yeah.

Kyle:

The. The amount of pain that he has experienced on behalf of Keanu Reeves. He's. Broken ribs. He broke a leg on the Matrix. Yeah. These guys. Yeah.

Which is funny. Mick Rogers called him a. By the way, I asked him about that story. He's like.

Seth:

He said.

Kyle:

He complained about that. He's like, what a. He goes. If you're a stunt guy, you complain about breaking your leg.

Will:

Hell yeah.

Kyle:

Yeah.

Will:

I like. I like the standard of pain. Like what the threshold supposed to be like the inappropriate amount. Yeah.

Kyle:

Just like how Tom Cruise prepared Jamie Foxx did drive. He took real fares and he shadowed cabbies and heard their stories and he had them tell them like. Like you just did with your crazy stories.

Heard the crazy stories. That's how he prepared. And lastly, this is the part I thought you'd be most interested in as a filmmaker, the camera they use.

So this was one of the very first ground breaking digital films.

Yeah, he wanted it because there was a certain type of grain that he wanted when, especially with the city shots that he knew he could get that level of detail with analog.

And so they used what was called the Sony F900 Cine Alta and it was used with Viper film stream, which was a cutting edge, more immersive depiction of the city's nocturnal glow is what it says. But yeah, so that was apparently at the time that was like.

Seth:

Yeah, no, that's crazy because. Yeah, that's the, that's the interesting thing, like thinking about that era of time. Phantom Menace and Attack of the Clones both shot on film.

of the Sith, that was shot on:

So, yeah, that whole, that whole era of time was a really weird transition over into digital filmmaking because it just. Even though the cameras were expensive, not having to continuously buy film was a huge money saver for people.

Will:

Yeah, probably time as well.

Seth:

Oh, yeah, absolutely.

Will:

Yep. Stop. What's. What's. What are they saying to like, check the gate? Check the gate.

Kyle:

Yeah, yeah, yeah, of course. Can we still say on the cutting room floor now it's like it's still called the cutting room on a hard drive somewhere.

Will:

Yeah, yeah. In my downloads folder.

Seth:

Yeah.

Will:

That I haven't cleared out yet.

Kyle:

Is it in your outbox?

Seth:

Yeah.

Will:

Next. Next to all the porn. No, I know, I know it's in here.

Seth:

So much porn here.

Will:

Just look. No, no, just walk out of the room for a second.

Kyle:

Found it.

Will:

You can't see this.

Seth:

Clockwise rim job, counterclockwise rim job.

Kyle:

Shall we catch a fair?

Seth:

Let's do it.

Kyle:

Shall we crash? Give the DAR phone number or get the phone number from the D. A. Let's war.

Seth:

Let's do it.

Kyle:

So we have seven categories, right?

Will:

Right.

Kyle:

And then we, for each category, we debate, we talk about our positions. And then obviously, because there's three of us, if two vote for the same thing, that's the win. So it's yes or no.

And then we score the movie that way. And then so we have a yes or no, but each like every Time we do a movie. Yes is like something specific to the movie. No is something specific to them.

We can't just say yes or no or I like it. So, yeah, I Ching. And then bullets. Because my. I love that quote where he's like, you killed him. Is like, I didn't kill him. I shot him.

The bullets in the fall killed him.

Seth:

Yeah.

Kyle:

All right, top bill cast, here we go for collateral. Here we go. And we're going to talk about how we feel about this.

Top bill cast, that would be Tom Cruise as Vincent, Jamie Foxx as Max, and Jada Pinkett Smith as Annie.

Seth:

This was, this was pre slap. So we still have respect for Jada Pinkett at the time.

Kyle:

Yeah, I guess so.

Will:

Yeah.

Seth:

I. I give it an I Ching. They all, as we've said with so many of these movies, they all brought 100 of themselves to these roles.

Like, none of them felt out of place. None of them felt off. Everyone felt like their character should have. So, yeah, it's definitely an iching for me.

Will:

Yeah, yeah. I'll say. It's a niching for me as well.

Kyle:

Yeah, yeah.

Will:

Because Jade, that was a Jada heyday. Yeah, yeah, it was. It was before. What was it called? The Entanglement.

Seth:

Yeah, yeah. The Entanglement.

Will:

Yeah.

Seth:

That was even pre Madagascar.

Will:

Yeah, yeah.

Kyle:

I'm the same. I loved it. I. I think I'm a big Tom Cruise fan. I mean, I. He's done a lot of weird.

Seth:

He's hit or miss for me, but I like, I like a lot of his movies. I have oblivion up on the wall.

Kyle:

Yeah. Extremely dedicated actor, still doing in his 60s, still doing all the stunts for Mission Impossible. Hanging off the side of plane, attempting.

Seth:

To produce the first movie fully made in space.

Kyle:

Yeah. I mean, he just doesn't give up. He. He's. He literally thinks it's his job to save Hollywood.

Seth:

Yeah.

Kyle:

And he's trying. I mean, he's talked about that, but. But I love it here. Jamie Foxx is just incredible here.

And I remember, I remember watching this when it came out thinking, God, like. Because I remember his stand up and then his music, you know, and like he's just so. Oh, fantastic musician, great rapper. Yeah. And he also has.

He plays keys.

Will:

Yeah. Right.

Kyle:

Really gifted guy. And yeah, I. It's funny.

Seth:

One Kanye song.

Will:

He knew how to play the piano before Ray, though, right? Wasn't he, like, already a master pianist?

Kyle:

Yeah, he did it for, for his record. He played the keys on those records. Yeah, yeah. So really good. I remember buying that at Walmart.

Seth:

Nice.

Kyle:

Jamie Foxx record.

Will:

Walmart.

Kyle:

Yeah.

Will:

You know that I. Not to bash on Walmart, but they don't take Apple Pay. Really learned that the hard way.

The other day, you hit a wall trying to buy some Topo Chico and cat food. And I walked up and I was tapping my phone against the thing and someone's like, we don't take Apple Pay. And I was like, you're Walmart.

Like, you're Walmart. You're like one of the biggest companies in the entire world.

Kyle:

Maybe thought they were you making a bomb with that. Yeah, Toba Chico.

Will:

Chico and cat food.

Kyle:

Oh, my God.

Will:

What's this guy doing now? It's just dinner. Coffee's going great.

Kyle:

I can get 19 meals out of this bag of cat food.

Will:

Why are you still spending 16 on Topo Chica? You can just get Seltzer water for $3. I'm like, no, no. Yeah, I'm poor.

Seth:

I'm poor, but I have standards.

Will:

Put the cat food in. Shake it up.

Kyle:

Love it. Yeah, Absolutely.

Seth:

One how old people did peanuts and Coca Cola?

Will:

I just saw a musician I follow. She posted that today. And she was like, having a nice morning of Coke and peanuts. And I was like, this must be a thing. I don't know.

Seth:

It was a Great Depression thing. My grandma did it all the time growing up.

Kyle:

Yeah, my mom used to do it. I was like, that's why she's bipolar. Yeah, that salt, that fizz. Just like, woo. I'm going to have a weird day today.

Will:

A week from now. Like, you're on RFK staff.

Kyle:

Yeah.

Seth:

We should bring back the peanuts and Coca Cola.

Kyle:

You drink that, you're like, I'm either going to beat my children or we're going to Disney World today. I can't decide. All right, one to zero supporting cast. Here we go. That would be Mark Ruffalo.

Will:

Who?

Seth:

Michael Pena.

Kyle:

A foot taller, but yes, looks like Michael Pena. And it took me a minute to realize it was him too. I was like, God, that's Mark Ruffalo. Peter Berg as Richard Widener or. Yeah, Widener.

And then Bruce McGill is petarosa. I'm looking down the list for more names. Yeah, the rest of the names are kind of whatever. Yeah, we'll stop there.

Seth:

So for me, it's going to be actually a Bullets. Like, none of them were that memorable.

I was very confused by Mark Ruffalo being there, mostly because he's got a very New England kind of accent and he just is. Sticks out like a sore thumb.

Kyle:

Yeah.

Seth:

In la. But also somehow Looked Mexican. Like, it just. It was. Honestly, his scenes were the most distracting for me.

The rest of the supporting cast, like, yeah, they were there. None of them really, like, brought anything extra to the table. I think all of them could have been easily replaced. So it's a. Bullets for me.

Kyle:

Yeah.

Will:

This is like an era of movies where like, the supporting cast really just didn't matter.

Kyle:

No, I don't think there's an era of that concept. I just think sometimes they were like.

Will:

Very much just like, look, you're a face in the background and you're just propping up Tom Cruise kind of.

Seth:

It depended because you definitely have like the Coen brothers who were very into making sure every single character they wrote, Right?

Will:

Well, yeah, so it just.

Seth:

It just really depends on, I think, who. Whether you were producing an artur movie or a movie that you were trying to make money on. Like, I think it just depended.

Will:

Okay.

Kyle:

Yeah. Michael Mann, too. He is a big cast guy. You know, he. I mean, he was Robert De Niro, Al Pacino, Val Kilmer.

Seth:

Yeah.

Kyle:

In the lead. And, you know, Brennaman was the supporting cast on that. I mean, he just had this gigantic cast, so. Yeah. Who else? Wynonna Judd. I mean.

Will:

Yeah. It's like, that's an okay.

Kyle:

Just insane cast. So that's kind of how Michael Mann goes.

Seth:

But it was interesting to see her at the Kill Tony show.

Kyle:

I bet.

Will:

Went on a Judd.

Seth:

She opened both nights and then was at the after party.

Will:

Give me one big fire. Just one big, well timed fire. Reset the timeline.

Kyle:

I. I want an asteroid.

Will:

No, no, that's. That's gonna take out too much. I need it concentrated.

Kyle:

Is that a real thing? Can you take out too much of what's going on right now? I think we need a haircut.

Will:

That's fair.

Kyle:

This world needs a haircut.

Will:

Yeah, yeah. It needs a buzz cut.

Seth:

Take the North Pole.

Will:

Yeah.

Kyle:

Just pop down all of.

Will:

All the.

Kyle:

All the melting will just drown us all. And I'll be like, yeah, somehow you. You're the only survivor I'll be mumbling to most like, what the. How did I still survive?

Will:

It's you and frogs.

Seth:

Yeah.

Kyle:

I hate cockroaches.

Seth:

Oh, man.

Will:

What'd you think I'm gonna say bullets? Because Mark ruffalo needs more Ls.

Kyle:

Yeah, yeah, yeah. He got on that Marvel train pretty hard.

Seth:

Yeah. And honestly, he's the worst of all the Hulks.

Kyle:

Norton was better.

Seth:

Way better. Eric Bana was way better.

Will:

Well, I also think Mark Ruffalo got absorbed into like, this is one thing I think has been a problem with. We.

I know this would probably be a long conversation, but I do think it got too silly where, like, when they found out, like, hey, Thor can be funny and.

Seth:

Yeah.

Will:

And Chris Hemsworth has some comedic chops. I think they, like, lost the plot.

Seth:

Oh, 100.

Will:

Where they were just like, well, no, every big guy has to be funny.

Seth:

Yeah.

Will:

Like, I just saw the most recent one. I was like, oh, the Russian guy's funny too now. Well, a big funny guy. Something we haven't done yet.

You know, I think Mark Ruffalo was, like, too good at being funny. And they were like, we're. We're. Let's make she Hulk, and. Really?

Seth:

Yeah, yeah.

Kyle:

Now Harrison Ford Hulk.

Seth:

Yeah.

Will:

I mean, I don't blame anyone on that one, because that was just like, he's too old to be doing this.

Seth:

Yeah.

Will:

And it was like, he's filling in for a guy that had already been playing their character. And, like, the whole movie was just rough.

Seth:

My favorite thing is every time he gets interviewed, someone literally was like, did you feel weird doing the motion capture? Like, is there a part of your brain that's just like. Like, oh, this is so stupid. He's like, no, that's what the money's for.

Will:

He is. He is like a. Just such a great celebrity. Oh, yeah.

Seth:

He's unabashedly honest about. No, this is a job for me.

Kyle:

Yeah.

Seth:

It's the greatest job ever. But it's just a job.

Will:

I don't have any problems. Yeah.

Kyle:

I could be motion sick for $20 million.

Will:

Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And it's. I mean, based on, like, how his co stars act around him, I think people genuinely love him.

Like, he must be easy to work with and just fun to be around, because I don't know if, especially his era, I don't think I've ever heard anyone be like, oh, yeah, Harrison Ford.

Kyle:

Yeah.

Will:

You know?

Kyle:

Yeah. All right. I actually go bullets in the fall. Kill them, too. I. I don't like Mark Ruffalo here. I'll be honest. I don't.

You know, I don't like to bash people, like, specifically, but I just can't think of a single damn thing. I like him, and I did.

Seth:

He was really good in Zodiac.

Kyle:

Oh, I did forget about Zodiac. I haven't watched that in a very long time.

Seth:

Yeah. But I heard great things about his performance in Three Billboards too.

Kyle:

Yeah, I did. Yeah, I heard that. I still haven't seen that either.

Seth:

Yeah, I think I've seen, like, Dark Waters. He was fucking great.

Kyle:

Okay.

Seth:

He. Here's the thing. This was just not a good role for him. He doesn't need to be a cop. And, I mean, Zodiac kind of. Isn't he a journalist in Zodiac.

He wasn't even a cop.

Kyle:

Yeah, right.

Will:

Yeah. They're journalists.

Seth:

It's just. Yeah. This was not a good role for him. I've seen good roles for him, but it's just, he's. I don't know. It's weird.

He needs to be the lead, but not, like, with anything super complex.

Kyle:

Yeah. It felt here like this. It was. He was a very finessed. Maybe it's because my. I. My dad was a narcotics officer, and I just know how rough that is.

Like, how in real life, like, my dad was a ruffian.

Will:

Yeah.

Kyle:

And I watched Mark Ruffle. I'm like, you haven't been through, bro. Because my dad had half a finger.

You know, he had long hair to his ass, and he would drink and do drugs with the drug dealers. And I'm just. He would come home, get the. Out of my way.

Will:

Your dad was Matthew McConaughey? Yeah. What's. What's the show? The HBO True Detective. True Detective Minus.

Kyle:

Minus the intelligence.

Seth:

Yeah.

Will:

You're, like, watching. You're like, dad, dad, just love me so.

Kyle:

A little bit too.

Seth:

All right, all right, all right.

Kyle:

This is where a Coen brother approach would have been like, I think some kind of, like, lesser known, kind of.

Seth:

Hardened guy, Adam Sandler, could have killed that role.

Kyle:

Yeah.

Seth:

I think he would have been great in that role.

Kyle:

I know. It's kind of weird how, like, I just want to see him do more.

Seth:

Yeah.

Kyle:

I've never.

Will:

Adam Sandler.

Kyle:

Yeah. Ever since Uncut Gems, I'm like, I want to see him do more.

Seth:

Dark granted, somehow he convinces every gorgeous woman in the world to play his wife in whatever movie he wants to do. I'm like, okay, Aniston, we'll do our fourth movie together. It'll be great. You'll. You'll get in a bikini. I'll pretend to ogle you. It'll be great.

Will:

Okay, Adam. I'll be there. I'll be there.

Seth:

You're so adorable.

Kyle:

It is. One to one. Let's talk about the writing and the writer. It's funny, I was looking at his credentials earlier.

Australia Bay Stuart Beetle, and he has, like a. He has the Pirates of the Caribbean logo video or the Pirates of the Caribbean Lego video game Tomorrow. The war Began. GI Joe, the Rise of Cobra.

Seth:

Oh, okay.

Kyle:

On his resume. So there we go. And he did write the Pirates of the Caribbean. The Curse of the Black Pearl. Yep, he wrote that as well.

Will:

Oh, wait, the. That's the first one, right? Yeah, that's like the one.

Kyle:

Yeah.

Seth:

I don't like that series I enjoyed.

Will:

I mean, that's the best one, though, out of all of them.

Seth:

Yeah.

Kyle:

So he has some things and, you know, this may be his best one.

Seth:

Yeah, this. This might be his best one. I guess he got this after pirates came out, or at least he got pirates. So, I mean, he.

He clearly had worked his way up into something decent. But now this was. Like I said earlier, I think this script could have stood on its own with any, Any.

Any competent actors in any of the roles I think could have done as good, if not even a little better.

Kyle:

Yeah.

Seth:

So, yeah, I give it a I Ching.

Will:

And it's an original, right?

Kyle:

Yes, it is.

Seth:

Adaptation.

Kyle:

Nope, it's an original.

Will:

It's like, it's impossible. Yeah, yeah, it's like, impossible to get an original script through.

Kyle:

I know.

Will:

The pipeline at all.

Kyle:

Warner Brothers just issued an edict saying we. We want non original shit. Like, like, we want to bank on existing ip.

Seth:

Yeah.

Will:

Like, one of my buddies out now. Like, one of my college friends, he. I forget what his production company is called, but, like, yeah, they don't.

Like, he wrote an original script once that I read and I was like, this is great. And he's like, yeah, it's never gonna light a day.

Seth:

Yeah.

Will:

But like, his whole company, like, they go to, like, German. This is also, like, when Netflix was, like, just getting into streaming and being like, how much money can we make here?

And so, like, they would, like, go to Germany or, you know, Korea or whatever, and they would find a series and, like, bring it back here and we. True detective, you know, or whatever it is. But anyway, yeah, I'm. I'm gonna say I Ching then, because that's like, just. Yeah.

Kyle:

Yeah.

Will:

This just doesn't happen. And it does. It's definitely not gonna happen anytime.

Kyle:

Yeah.

Seth:

Yeah. None of the, like, catchphrase moments ever felt too cheesy or like Stallone, ish. So. Yeah, no, it was quite solid.

Will:

Yeah.

Kyle:

Yeah. And this is one of those situations where. Well, I always talk about how much I love commentaries.

I get really pissed of a movie because that's part of my research. And I just love hearing the directors talk.

Will:

Yeah.

Kyle:

And I just could listen to Michael Mann talk for hours. And like, he does this for every single movie he does. But every actor has to write their backstory.

Seth:

Yeah. And Every actor should be writing a.

Kyle:

Backstory and he does it with them. And Tom Cruise, like has this whole. Like this isn't writing in the sense of the script, but like, he did have to. Like he was an orphan.

Seth:

Yeah.

Kyle:

He was displaced when he was 11. He got, you know, arrested. Like there was this.

Will:

Oh, he. He built the story up to the point that he's at. Yeah. See, that's awesome.

Kyle:

And you can see it. You can kind of Jamie Foxx, like, I love this whole. Because there's even more like that you didn't see that he wrote about this, this business plan.

Seth:

Yeah.

Kyle:

And how he got into driving a cab and his mom and like, there's just so much there. I love how Michael Mann does that because, like, you can see it. And I really do think the way that Vincent was written transformed.

Tom Cruise is a guy that gets away most of the time with being Tom Cruise. I think the exception is Magnolia, which. Where he was exceptional in that. Oh, Paul Thomas Anderson.

Will:

He's the long hair.

Kyle:

Yep.

Will:

He's the like cult. Not cult leader, but like, he's like.

Kyle:

A self help macho. Like. Yeah, yeah.

Will:

He's Andrew Tate years before Andrew.

Kyle:

Yeah, yeah. With tears.

Will:

Yeah, yeah.

Kyle:

There's a scene in there that's like legendary where he cries and like, it's. It's so good. So. But I think this is second to that.

The writing of this character transformed Tom Cruise into a guy I was like, he has more range than I think I thought.

Seth:

Granted, Eyes Wide Shut is still.

Kyle:

Yeah, that is true.

Seth:

So good.

Kyle:

That's up there as well. That's a very.

Will:

Yeah, I don't think I've seen it.

Kyle:

It's.

Will:

That's. That's Nicole Kidman, right?

Kyle:

Yeah.

Seth:

That was the movie that in theory, broke them up.

Will:

Oh, interesting.

Seth:

Stanley Kubrick, his last movie that. They had a edit of it and then he died four days after he showed it to. To the execs and then they finished his movie.

Kyle:

Yeah.

Seth:

Supposedly missing like 20 minutes of footage. Like. Yeah.

Kyle:

And Roger Avery, Quentin Tarantino's sidekick, he's out there trying to. He's been trying to get the original cut.

Seth:

Yeah.

Will:

Oh, cool.

Seth:

Cuz he's got a production script so he knows what's missing.

Kyle:

Yeah.

Will:

Interesting. Yeah, I didn't know any of that. That's all.

Kyle:

Yeah, he was friends with Kubrick, but Yeah, I. I love it. I just love the detail and, and you know, people. I get bashed all the time for this.

ichael mann's Man, Manhunter,:

Will:

I didn't even know this existed.

Kyle:

Yeah, it's. Well, I'm a dot. My top five novel for me all time is Red Dragon, which is the. The very first Hannibal book.

Seth:

And the adaptation was not bad.

Will:

That's Ed Norton, too, right?

Kyle:

Yep. And Ralph Fiennes, but it was.

Will:

So That's a psycho.

Kyle:

Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I just. I just think Michael Mann has such a distinction, like, flavor when you watch him. And I.

I just think there's so much intentions in addition to a great script. The. The effort that was put into designing these characters pushes this way over. This is I Ching hard man. So I never thought I'd say that sentence.

I Ching hard man.

Will:

He, like, just cut that out. They're like.

Kyle:

And it's two to one. You know how I know that? Because I brought the spreadsheet back. He's writing it down halfway through the last 10 episodes. I've lost count.

I'm like, it's eight to four. Four. We don't even have eight categories.

Will:

Like, okay. It's okay. Whose line is it anyway? The points don't matter.

Kyle:

Yes. Directing Michael Mann.

Seth:

Yeah, it's gonna be an iching for me. Again, I don't think this movie is necessarily anything exceptional, but he did a good job there. There was nothing.

Nothing that was, like, glaringly terrible about it. So, yeah, I'd say. I'd say it was decent. It was solid. So, yeah, iching for me.

Kyle:

Yeah.

Will:

See, sometimes with directors, I'm always like, because this was great. So I'm gonna give him an iching. But I am always like. Like, when it's bad.

Seth:

Yeah.

Will:

I. I do always have to go, how did you not see this as bad?

Seth:

No, they do. You know, most of them do, and they still have to go.

Will:

We just got to do it.

Seth:

Yeah.

Will:

God, that's. That's awful. But, yeah, no, this is great.

Kyle:

Yeah, you see a lot of those. Because they had a better idea and they fucking killed it.

Seth:

Yeah.

Will:

Have you guys watched. What's that Seth Rogen show just come out.

Seth:

The producers.

Will:

Producers or.

Seth:

Yeah, I think that.

Will:

No, not the producer, the studio.

Kyle:

It's on my list.

Seth:

Yeah.

Will:

I've watched the first couple episodes, and, like, the. It's. It's. I think you guys would really enjoy it.

Seth:

Yeah, I've heard good things.

Kyle:

That Zack Snyder's career.

Seth:

Yeah.

Will:

I mean, the second episode is like. I even, like. Even, like, with my TV experience, like, Know when like, oh, like so and so is on set and you just.

They are just dragging the day on because they have their creative input. You're like, oh, my gosh, sit down. It's the dreams over, man. You're already making millions. Like, just give it up.

Seth:

This is why Christopher Nolan has it so good, is because literally he's at the point where he's just like, I'll do what I'm gonna do, but you don't have a choice. Yep, I will deliver you a film and you will distribute it. But you're not gonna tell me how to make this shit.

Kyle:

Yeah, that's.

Seth:

That's. That is the reason Sinners has done so well is because Ryan Coogler brought the script to the studio, sat down and said, here's the deal.

I'm gonna make this. You don't say shit. Yep, I will deliver you. Same as Nolan. He's like, I will deliver you this movie, but I guarantee you it's gonna do well.

grossing R rated movie since:

Will:

I just saw. I still need to see it.

Seth:

Same. I'm mad I missed it in imax.

Will:

Yeah.

Kyle:

Lately, like, I just. If it's new, I wait to watch it till we cover it. It's like I want to have because it's fresh.

It's a luxury I don't get anymore because we covered so many movies I've seen. I'm like, if I get to watch it with fresh eyes. Yeah, I do. I go, I Ching. Because I think nobody does LA like Michael Mann.

I'm not saying other directors don't do it well. He just has such a specific flair for how he envisions the city and how he uses the city. I think the. I just think there's so many great choices here.

The few things I have problems with this, you know, Mark Ruffalo, the unbelievable relationship between the. Between Jada Pinkett Smith's character and Max. Like, I don't necessarily love that. I think it's a little.

Seth:

Yeah. I don't know. The conversation at the beginning convinced me well enough.

Kyle:

It's really good. It's just. It's like in a movie where it's kind of pretty real in a lot of ways.

Will:

Like, they managed the one part that you're like, yeah, I don't think so.

Kyle:

Oh, you know who forgot to say in supporting cast, Javier Bardem. A young Javier Bardem in here. Crushing it. I forgot to mention him.

Seth:

Who did he play?

Kyle:

He was the. At the table. He was the guy when Jamie Foxx was pretending. Yeah.

You may not have picked up on it because they talked about in special features they had to coach him to speak in a. In a Mexican Spanish accent versus because he's Spanish. Because he's. Yeah, because he has the Spanish flair.

Will:

Yeah.

Kyle:

And they had this like, you had. Need the Mexican version of this. So they had to coach him. Him. That makes sense because he also didn't speak great English at the time.

Seth:

Yeah, I mean it's kind of like taking an upper class New Englander and trying to get him to speak with a southern accent.

Kyle:

Yep. Three to one. Sorry I had to rush my answer in there. Michael Mann, I love you. What's in front of us?

Cinematography, production design, sound, costumes, editing, stunts.

Seth:

This is gonna be a squeak over for me. Which in our vernacular is like a 5.1 out of 10.

Will:

It's just good.

Kyle:

He's a squeaker.

Seth:

It's just good enough for me to say that. That it's an I Ching. But here's the thing. There were only moments where the cinematography I felt was purposeful.

Kyle:

It.

Seth:

Otherwise it was just kind of generic setups, generic ways of shooting. There were. There were a couple moments like after the car wreck where the camera got extra wavy, shaky, disorienting.

But only when it was on Jamie Foxx.

Kyle:

Right.

Seth:

Anytime it would cut to anyone else, it would still still be handheld, but it would actually kind of calm down a little bit. But it was only like a couple of moments like that where I was like, oh, that's a really cool, subtle way to do that.

Otherwise it was just kind of there. Again, nothing egregious, but nothing good.

The, the, the other than just the setting of la, like, yeah, that was cool, but all of the general sets themselves. Again, nothing. Nothing to write home about. Nothing that I was like, oh, wow, this feels so detailed. Detailed. So it was good. It was all right.

Will:

I'll say truthfully, with cinematography, that's probably one of the one things I'm very bad about noticing. I notice when it's bad. Yeah.

Kyle:

Yeah.

Will:

Like, I can be like, this is really bad, but I like, I don't have an eye for it where I'm like, that shot was exceptional. Like, I, like, I know I've like, like I could sit there with you and you'd be like, look at that in the background right there.

And he's got this in the foreground. And I'd just be like, I don't know. They got pretty eyes.

Seth:

Yeah.

Will:

You know?

Kyle:

Yeah.

Will:

So this isn't the best category for me, but I'll say I Ching, because I didn't notice that I didn't like it.

Kyle:

Yeah, there you go.

Seth:

That's fair.

Kyle:

Yeah. And sometimes that's. It's just like a. Like a cornerback or like, jarring.

Will:

Like, there was nothing jarring that I was like, that was a terrible cut. Yeah, yeah, that's. That's always.

That's another thing I do notice that is, like, when there's just a cut that you're like, something was in between this and they really just didn't know how to work around. Yeah. I see with specials all the time too, like, where you could tell, like, even my own, there was one that we had to really cut.

And, like, I noticed because I've seen the thing 10,000 times with editing, but, like, it. Even recently I watched it, I was like, that cut is not as smooth as I thought it was.

Seth:

Yeah, it happens.

Kyle:

It's like a defensive back in NFL if they're saying your name is because you're not doing a good job.

Will:

Yeah. Well, it's because someone's. Someone's. I mean, literally the thing started and Brandon Gerald's grandmother's phone went off. And then.

And then, like, later, like, someone, like, dropped a glass in the middle of, like, a very long joke I was doing. And, like. So I'm like, it goes for me, like, doing the joke to, like, a cut of me, like, laughing, trying to get back into the jokes.

I was like, I'm going to lose my mind. But, yeah, those hard cuts are damn grandmothers. Yeah.

Kyle:

I do go I Ching as well. And it's like, against the wall, you're squeaking. I'm like, I. I want to get to 11 here.

Seth:

It's like 10 out of 10.

Kyle:

Yeah, I just. The aerial shots of LA, a city I don't even really like.

Seth:

Yeah.

Kyle:

But here I'm like, yeah, that is.

Will:

The funny part about this is you're like. You're like, he shot la, so give me some more la. Yeah, but then you're like, but I actually don't.

Kyle:

Like, I'll visit Michael Mann's la.

Will:

You like pictures. You aesthetically love L. A.

Kyle:

Exactly.

Will:

But you are like, this is the worst. Yeah, this is a hell hole. And I. I feel dirty and I need to go shower and get on a plane and go back.

Kyle:

That's exactly right. Yeah, no, it's exactly right. And I love it. And I Do think there's some, some creative framing here.

And I, I think I love the scene where he finally decides that he's going to like punch it and turn the car over and, and her. I, I think that was filmed really well. You're right, though. There are portions of it which are pretty straight on.

But there's, there's enough here where I really, I like. And I also love the, the attention to detail with Vincent suit and his hair. Even though I, I know, I know what you're saying because it's Tom Cruise.

Like, what's with the gray hair?

Seth:

Yeah.

Kyle:

But the tailoring of the suit, now obviously you have to listen to commentary to pick up on that. But now that I have, I'm like.

Will:

Yeah, yeah, now that you said that to me, like the blending in, I'm like, oh, that's really smart.

Kyle:

Yeah.

Will:

You're in a gray suit and you're like, what?

Kyle:

Yeah, it's cool.

And I love, and I related a lot to one thing I liked was the little totem of, of him pulling down his visor to look at the picture of the island to remind him of his business plan. Like, I work a full time job. Obviously we, all three of us have, we're trying to accomplish in our lives that have nothing to do with the day job.

But it's like there are moments where, like, I just need to look or touch something that reminds me that, like, my purpose is elsewhere. And so every time he would do that, I was like, that's cool. That was a neat little little thing. I love totem stuff.

Seth:

And you have a life sized doll of Nicholas Refn, don't you?

Kyle:

I do. Nicholas Winning Griffin. And my next pair of glasses is going to be like this. Love you. Nick, please, please reschedule your interview. For God's sake.

All right. That is 4 to 1 because of the Excel sheet. I know.

Seth:

Hey.

Kyle:

All right. This is where we get into our cult. We call these bro categories, which the first five are like non traditional or very traditional categories.

These two are more, you know, either comedic or related specifically to the movie. I called this one number one Hit Man.

Seth:

Okay.

Kyle:

Hitman. Especially lately. There's a bunch of new hitman movies, hitman movies coming out.

Will:

It's, it's like a, it does, it has, it's like every seven years kind of thing.

Kyle:

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I really enjoyed what's the new David Fincher with Fassbender.

Will:

Killer Fastbenders in a hitman movie.

Kyle:

Yeah. And.

Seth:

Oh, it's a Netflix one.

Will:

Yeah, it's actually, I don't have Netflix.

Kyle:

It's really good.

Will:

I have to wait until I'm dog sitting to watch, catch up on anything.

Kyle:

That's right. Yeah. Walk a dog, Get a streaming service.

Will:

Yeah, yeah.

Kyle:

But, yeah, it's. You know, hitmen are a fixture in film, but how do we rate Vincent here as a. Is he a good hitman or give or take?

Seth:

I mean, that's a. That's an interesting question because thinking about it at the time, I'm sure it was something unique compared to most of your other.

Just like kind of stereotypical. I mean, even Terminator, I feel like, could be considered a hitman movie in. In some sense.

Yeah, this was somewhat different, but I have seen so many hitman movies since this came out that it just. Nothing about it really stood out to me. So I'm gonna go bullets on this one. It just, it was fine.

Nothing like egregious again, but nothing that made it especially good. So. Yeah, in terms of what the category is, I don't think it was anything special.

Will:

Well, it's been messy, isn't it? Yeah, it's a bit messy as a hitman.

Kyle:

Yeah.

Will:

Yeah. So I'll go bullets.

Kyle:

Oh, it's tough.

Seth:

I pulled up a category, by the way. Like, that's a solid, solid way to think on it.

Kyle:

Well, and here I pulled up a list to give me because it was hard for me too, because you said that. And I was like, well, wait a second. Anton Chigurh.

Seth:

Yeah.

Kyle:

And I pulled up the highest rated list of hitman characters. That automatically blows the category.

Seth:

I mean, John Wick, obviously.

Kyle:

John Wick, Leon the Professional. Yeah, really good. Jules Winfield. Pulp Fiction.

Seth:

Yeah.

Kyle:

Is on there. John Wick is on the list. Vincent is on this list as well. Let's see, I'm looking for some ones that we would know. Yeah. And that's a lot of.

Oh, and in Bruges, Colin Farrell.

Seth:

Yeah.

Will:

Oh, wait, so do you mean, like, do I think, like, if I'm like, looking at resumes and I'm like, do I think you're a good hitman or do you mean like, as in, like, as far as, like, top 10 hitman go?

Kyle:

Just as like. Yeah. Is this a hit? Do you, do you like this hitman?

Will:

Oh, then yeah, yeah, yeah. No, I do. So, okay. Yeah.

Seth:

So you're iching.

Will:

Yeah, I'm iching. Sorry, sorry, I thought it was like, like, get in, get out, no mess.

Kyle:

Oh, just as a character on screen.

Will:

I went too specific.

Kyle:

No, it's fine. No, it's Great.

Will:

I was just like, I don't know.

Kyle:

There's a lot of freedom here.

Will:

I was like, I wouldn't hire him. But then you said, john Wick. I was like, well, I'm definitely not hiring John Wick. He blew up, like, five cities, you know?

Kyle:

Yeah.

Will:

Okay.

Kyle:

Yeah.

Seth:

No, in terms of it being a hitman movie, it's okay.

Kyle:

Yeah.

Seth:

Nothing. Nothing crazy.

Will:

Okay.

Kyle:

Yeah. I. I look at. So you're going I Ching now. Yeah, yeah, I get it. No, it's. It's however you want to take it, man.

Will:

Yeah. I just like it because as we all know, I moonlight as a employer of hitman.

Kyle:

Yeah.

Will:

And I was like, well, I wouldn't hire him.

Kyle:

Yeah. I mean, this is an investment.

Will:

Yeah.

Seth:

You know, Beware comedy clubs. Don't cross Will Ables.

Kyle:

What do you mean?

Seth:

The pride of Hagerstown will take you out one way or another.

Kyle:

What do you mean you'll venmo me me? I said, what do you mean you'll venmo me? Yeah, that's the death nail.

Will:

Yeah.

Kyle:

Oh, you Venmo me half of what you. Okay.

Will:

Oh, interesting. This. This Venmo is a little short.

Kyle:

Yeah, it's weird.

Will:

Well, that's what you get happened to.

Kyle:

Me a few times.

Will:

Yeah.

Kyle:

I actually, I read that list, and there's. There's some I do like better. Like Anton Shigera, obviously legendary. But I still think he has his place on the list. I think he's unique enough.

Tom Cruise gives it a flair that I love. I love the. The aesthetic. I do like the gray hair. I know it's weird, but I like how he looks.

I don't know if you noticed, but, Ian, they put scars on his hands. That's one thing Michael Mann talks about. We put scarring on his hands, and there's, like, little micro scars on his face. You have to really zoom in.

Seth:

But see, I noticed that at the beginning, but they. It. It disappeared as the movie.

Kyle:

You're right.

Seth:

I really forgot about that.

Kyle:

You're right.

Seth:

Yeah.

Will:

They were like, how do we save some money?

Kyle:

Yeah. No more.

Seth:

Another reason why, like, that. That other. The. The visual category. He's just a squeak over.

Kyle:

Yeah.

Seth:

Because there's a lot. There was details thought about, but then they just let him go.

Kyle:

Maybe they wish they didn't use that digital camera.

Seth:

Maybe.

Will:

I think it was, like, shot out of, out of order. And so maybe, like, it was an afterthought. They're like, he should definitely have scars in his hands. And everyone was like, oh.

Seth:

The whole time.

Will:

The Whole time. Because we're almost done.

Seth:

Yeah, almost definitely.

Will:

Yeah.

Kyle:

I also love the triple tap signature gun shooting where it's like the head, the two in the chest, one of the head.

Seth:

Such a waste of bullets though. Like, John Wick is so clean with it. One to the knee, one to the head.

Kyle:

Although that's. That. That's a little more of a Fantasiacal film than this is. I think this is. They're trying to be more grounded here. John.

John Wick is a much my favorite franchise.

Seth:

I'm just saying in terms of Hitman, he's as you pointed out, even though it was not the correct reason. But he's a very. I don't know, he's very messy, very sloppy. Like it's just. It was. Okay.

Kyle:

And he did let Max run away with his. With his files.

Seth:

Yeah.

Kyle:

You know, and while they were visiting, he got a little cute with the mom.

Seth:

Yeah.

Kyle:

Max did a little out of care or Sorry, Vincent. And then Max ran away with his briefcase.

Seth:

Yeah.

Kyle:

And threw it over.

Seth:

So it's just. Yeah, he's okay. Not. I don't think he's anything special.

Kyle:

By the way side rando. That bridge that they were running down when Tom Cruise was doing. Of course he had to get his run in.

Will:

Yeah.

Kyle:

They had to use security guards like. Well, down the. That highway because that's right in the middle of Crip blood territory.

And so to keep the gangs away, they had security guards lining that bridge.

Will:

Imagine that security guard. You're just like, this is just.

Seth:

Yeah.

Will:

Insane.

Seth:

Wait, I'm supposed to stop them?

Will:

Yeah.

Kyle:

Are there no bridges in Santa Barbara?

Will:

Come on. He's like, we couldn't have done this anywhere else. And I was like, no, it has to be here.

Seth:

You could have made a miniature.

Kyle:

Yeah. It's five to one and I'm going to finish with it. We did this for drive grading it as an LA film. La La Land is this last category.

Seth:

Yeah. I mean, again, like it. It. It's a very romanticized version of la. It would make me want to go to the city.

Even if I didn't know anything about the city currently. I'd be like, yeah, that's a cool looking city. So. Yeah, it's. It's fine.

Kyle:

Okay.

Seth:

Yeah. It's a iching. I Ching.

Kyle:

I Ching, whatever, man.

Will:

Yeah, I mean you got it like with. With an LA film to kind of. We were saying it's like you got to nail it.

Seth:

Yeah.

Will:

You know, because it is, it's. It's the. It's like, you know, it's the start of it all. Yeah, Right. So I think they did a good job.

Kyle:

Cool.

Will:

Yeah, I Ching.

Kyle:

I mean, you know how I feel about it. I think Michael Mann does LA unlike anyone else. I think Refn does a great job. But Michael Mann has his own flair.

You know, if you can get me to admire la. Yeah, yeah, I like it. So the aerial shots are cool. They really use the lighting of the city. I dig it a lot. And I do like that they.

They went to some real places in la. The. The gang territory. Bridge. They shot in people's apartments. Like the apartment when you first meet Mark Ruffalo. That was a real apartment.

That wasn't a set. It belonged to two people. They let them use the hotel, like. Or let them use their apartment. But. Yeah, no. So six to one.

Seth:

Yeah.

Kyle:

Yeah. Pretty good.

Will:

How do you think, like, how do you think LA people feel when they're here? Like, here like a Michael Mann films about.

Seth:

They're like, oh, they're probably so used to it at this point. I feel like Chicagoans would get pissed. But LA people just don't care.

Will:

I wonder if that is a thing with LA where they're like certain directors, they do, like, still. Even though it's like the whole culture.

Seth:

Yeah.

Kyle:

Well, the people I know, and I know you both know these people too, in la, they probably would tell people that they were in the movie or were somehow involved.

Seth:

That's me back there. See, like 18. 18 people deep. That's me.

Kyle:

Yeah, see, see, I was driving to work three hours south that day.

Will:

Yeah. It's just them and like, accidentally in a building jerking off. Yeah. Like, they got caught and you just.

Seth:

Go through and they're like, just someone in the corner. Just.

Will:

That's me.

Seth:

Slowly walk off.

Kyle:

Will you read my treatment?

Seth:

Yeah.

Kyle:

Dude. Thank you so much for joining us today. Of course you're going to be on the road. Tell them when and where. We have listeners all over.

Will:

All over. I am gonna be all over. So I am going. So on May 28, I head to Omaha and I'm doing the beach house. And then I go up to Bose. Yeah, I know, I know.

Then I go to Bozeman. I'm doing last Best comedy. I'm opening for Adam mamawalla. That is the 30th of May. And then we run around Montana and we're doing Helena and Townsend.

And then I go to. Well, I'm kind of just like camping for four days. And then I go to Seattle.

I'm like, different parts of Seattle, but I'M doing the Carco Theater with Billy Wayne Davis. And then I go to. If you happen to be.

Oh, I don't even remember what the town's name is, but if you go to Loge Campsite in Washington, I'll be there on June 8, I think it is. And I'll be doing, like, a show at the campsite. And then I go to Portland for a few days, doing shows all over there. Then I go to Bend, Oregon.

I'll be headlining at Craft Kitchen and brewery on the 13th. And then I go to Boise, and I'll be doing Don't Tell and the Cowboy Room. And then I go to Denver.

Just doing a bunch of shows around Denver for the week. And then I do Kansas City, and then I'm back here.

Kyle:

Boom. We have a ton of listeners in Seattle, by the way.

Will:

Do you?

Kyle:

So, yeah, go check them out.

Will:

Yeah.

Kyle:

He's incredible.

Will:

Come. I'll also be doing remedy speakeasy on June 5th. That'll be in. Not Renton. It's in. It's close to Kipsit. I just don't remember the name of the town.

Kyle:

Cool.

Will:

Yeah. Seattle's been interesting to book because they have, like, scenes within the scene because Just the way the city shaped.

Kyle:

Yeah.

Will:

So, yeah, that'll be fun. I'm looking forward to it. I've never performed in Seattle. Never performed anywhere in the Pacific Northwest or Montana.

So this is gonna be a cool one.

Kyle:

Helena. Yeah.

Seth:

And then y' all get ready for next week because we're gonna be doing the Wachowski Speed Racer, also featuring Will Abels here. So. Yeah, come back next week.

Kyle:

Love y' all. We just did Collateral six to one. Great job here. I'm Kyle.

Seth:

I'm Seth.

Will:

And I'm Will.

Kyle:

Love y' all.

Seth:

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Movie Wars
A panel of standup comedians deliver deeply researched and thoughtful film analysis.
A panel of stand-up comedians blends humor with deep film analysis, using their unique ‘War Card’ system to grade movies across key categories. Each episode delivers thoughtful insights and spirited debate, offering a fresh, comedic take on film critique. New episode every Tuesday!
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Kyle Castro